2.June Umchinda — Direct/Cross
368 linesJUDGE EVERETT: Please call your next witness.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: June Umchinda.
(Pause. )
JUDGE EVERETT: Don't tell me she's lost, again.
MS. DUGAN: No comment. Just a second.
JUDGE EVERETT: To all bailiffs, United States Marshals, the FBI, please track down our next witness.
MS. DUGAN: we're working on it.
JUDGE EVERETT: Do any of our jurors need to use the restroom during this period? Bailiff, please take the jury to the restroom.
(Jury exits.)
JUDGE EVERETT: we'll resume at 10:25. Mrs. Adelson, if you need to use the restroom, the bailiffs will assist you at this time.
(Brief recess.)
JUDGE EVERETT: You can be seated.
BAILIFF: Are you ready when we're ready?
JUDGE EVERETT: Hold on. Have we found our witness?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Ms. Dugan found her. I didn't ask where.
JUDGE EVERETT: Dugan, jack-of-all-trades. Bring them in.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sighting a Louis Vuitton suitcase.
(Pause. )
JUDGE EVERETT: Please approach.
(Sidebar discussion held as follows):
JUDGE EVERETT: Juror No. 3 wanted to confirm his rabies shot. I know this sounds bizarre for whoever will read this in the future. we're talking about rabies for the jury. Did you-all have a position concerning when he needed to do so? I think we discussed having an extended lunch break for tomorrow to make that happen.
MR. ZELMAN: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: That's fine. Or end of day after work.
BAILIFF: There's a specific time he has to make it for. So...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Any way is fine, Judge.
JUDGE EVERETT: Are you able to structure your witnesses around taking the extended break?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Yes.
JUDGE EVERETT: All right.
BAILIFF: I'm going to tell him noon.
JUDGE EVERETT: Noon is fine.
(Sidebar discussion concludes; jury enters.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated.
You may bring in the next witness.
(witness enters.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Up here. Please raise your right hand to be sworn.
whereupon, JUNE UMCHINDA was called as a witness, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
JUDGE EVERETT: You may take your seat.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Thank you.
JUDGE EVERETT: Please speak loudly and clearly so you can be heard.
JUNE UMCHINDA: (Nods head.)
JUDGE EVERETT: You may examine.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Hi. What is your name?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Hi. My name's June Umchinda.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: will you spell that, please?
JUNE UMCHINDA: The first name is J-U-N-E, and the last name is U-M-C-H-I-N-D-A.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: where do you live, ma'am?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I live in Boca Raton, Florida.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you know Donna Adelson, the Defendant in this case?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Ido. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How do you know her?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I was Charlie Adelson -- her son's ex-girlfriend at one point.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. when did you date Charlie Adelson?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I dated him in 2015 to 2017.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you re --
JUNE UMCHINDA: I met him after the murder.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Do you recall what month in 2015 you began dating Charlie Adel --
JUNE UMCHINDA: It was October.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And then broke up in what month of '17?
JUNE UMCHINDA: In June.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Can you describe for the jury what the beginning of your relationship with Mr. Adelson was like?
JUNE UMCHINDA: well, in the beginning, he was not -- him and his family were not being investigated by anything, so it was just a normal relationship we had. Everything was great.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you describe it as a fairy tale?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Had you met his mother?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I have.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How many times did you meet his mom?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Not more than five or six, I would say.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And when you met her, was that at family events or what type of events?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Some family events and some weekends or dinners or --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
JUNE UMCHINDA: -- just get-togethers.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you notice, during the time you spent around Donna Adelson, that she was very involved with her grandchildren?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I did notice. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How close was she to Charlie Adelson?
JUNE UMCHINDA: They were very close.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. work together?
JUNE UMCHINDA: At times, Charlie worked at many offices. So when he was at his office, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Because there was a family business, as well, that he was a part of, right?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And Donna Adelson worked at that business?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I believe so, at times.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did they speak on the phone daily?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did it seem like Donna Adelson was in control of the family?
JUNE UMCHINDA: In control, like, can you describe --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Like the --
JUNE UMCHINDA: -- what you mean?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- the matriarch of the family. She was the one that everyone looked to, to be in charge.
JUNE UMCHINDA: She played a motherly role, yes, in the family.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you meet wendi Adelson?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I have.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what about her children? Did you meet them?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I have. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: were you and Charlie Adelson living together during the time that you were dating?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Not officially. I had my own place, but I had a key to his place. And we were together 24/7 since we met. So...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So basically living together.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: During what you've described or previously described as the fairy tale phase of your relationship with Mr. Adelson, was he suffering from any anxiety issues?
JUNE UMCHINDA: In the beginning?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Just stress from work, the normal day-to-day.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Did he come across as angry during that time, the fairy tale phase?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: During that portion of your relationship, what did you know, if anything, about the murder of Dan Markel?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I had no idea who Dan Markel was. I'd never seen the case in the media. I just know that when I asked Charlie about his family, he advised me that his brother-in-law was murdered and shot in the head in a garage, and they don't know who did it. So that's all I knew. It was pretty short.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is that a topic that came up one time or more than one time?
JUNE UMCHINDA: It was one time when I asked him about his family in the beginning when we were dating, getting to know each other. And then, obviously, throughout our relationship, it became a bigger topic.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. But during the fairy tale phase, was it a topic that would come up regularly, like, what's going on with the investigation, I wonder who did it, that sort of thing?
JUNE UMCHINDA: So the fairy tale phase, that was before the investigation, before they suspected him or his family. So, no, it did not come up. Just that one time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did you previously say -- did you have a law enforcement interview in this case?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I did. I did not know I was being recorded but yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It was recorded, though, right?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Iwas. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You've had a chance to review it?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Many times. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And in that interview, did you say -- for Court and counsel page 50, lines 19 through 23 -- quote, like, they weren't ever curious, like, who really killed him. They weren't upset about it, it seemed like. Did you say that?
JUNE UMCHINDA: If it's there, yes, I said that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And then there was a time which -- are you familiar with the bump in which law enforcement approached Donna Adelson posing as a gang member or --
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes, ma'am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- a criminal?
Okay. And in that -- after that bump, did everything sort of change in your relationship with Charlie Adelson?
JUNE UMCHINDA: During and after, absolutely.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And that law enforcement operation that I'm referencing occurred April 19th of 2016. Is that something that he reported to you? Were you aware that, that happened with his mom?
JUNE UMCHINDA: No. Definitely not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: He didn't say anything?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Not during the time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. when did you learn about that?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I might have even learned about it from 20/20 or something when we watched it, or he told me later on --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
JUNE UMCHINDA: -- after the fact.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So although you were inseparable at the time it happened, he didn't mention it to you.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In what ways did Charlie Adelson's behavior begin to change around that time?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Around that time, he just -- I noticed he wasn't sleeping. He was up in the middle of the night. He was very extra stressed and anxious, worried, depressed. Overall, he became depressed over time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And at some point, I guess you learned through the media that Charlie was under investigation for potentially having a role in the murder of Dan Markel; is that right?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I learned from a reporter that thought I was Katie that came to the house. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And do you know around what time that was?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I believe it was, like, May or June when Luis Rivera got arrested. Around that time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And once you learned --
JUNE UMCHINDA: Oh, I'm sorry. Luis was already arrested. It was when Katie -- I think she was -- before she got arrested. Maybe Garcia got arrested at that time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. But at some point around the time of those arrests, you learned there was at least a theory that Charlie was involved.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And when you learned that information, did Charlie tell you anything about how to handle the police?
JUNE UMCHINDA: After I learned it, he went away on vacation somewhere, and I was at his house. So he said, if the police come knock on the door, for whatever reason, you don't know anything. And if they call you, you don't know anything, which was true, because I still didn't know anything. So...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So don't talk to the police.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Or talk to them and tell them you don't know anything, which --
JUNE UMCHINDA: No. Don't talk to them because --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
JUNE UMCHINDA: -- I'm not involved. So...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And when you did learn some things from the media about this case, was there something that stood out to you about how the hitmen said they were paid?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I did read the affidavit and everything, which said Luis -- or somebody mentioned they were paid in staples -- like, bundles of cash --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And --
JUNE UMCHINDA: -- with staples in it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- and why did that stand out to you?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Because I noticed that Charlie stapled his money, or he had money that was stapled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So you had seen that in his residence before?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Right. After I read that. So...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: After you --
JUNE UMCHINDA: After I found out that the money was stapled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: After you found out the money was stapled, you saw the stapled money?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Or no. Sorry. Let me think. I can't, I can't remember the exact moment. But I know when I saw the money, a red flag came up and I was, like -- after the fact that I saw it, I was thinking, oh, I think Luis said he got paid in some stapled cash. And, and I mentioned to Charlie that he should just put a paper clip in it. Instead, we talked about the staples. So...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. But you had seen, before learning that the hitmen were paid in stapled money, had you not seen stapled money in Charlie Adelson's residence?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Before the hitmen were paid?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yeah.
JUNE UMCHINDA: I didn't know Charlie back then, when the hitmen --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Oh, I'm sorry.
JUNE UMCHINDA: -- were paid.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm sorry.
JUDGE EVERETT: Verify the time line for her, please.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes. Before you learned that the hitmen were paid in stapled money, which you learned from the media, you had seen stapled money in Charlie Adelson's residence.
JUNE UMCHINDA: It was after. Because, when I saw it, I was thinking to myself, you know, that's strange, the staples. And then it clicked. So it was after I saw.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: After you saw the article or the Tv broadcast, you then observed it --
JUNE UMCHINDA: After I found out.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- in his residence. And that's --
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- when it clicked.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And the stapled money that you saw was hundred-dollar bills stapled into thousand-dollar bundles; is that right?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And there was quite a few of them that you saw, right?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. During the time between -- I guess the few weeks before that article was published. So between what we now know was the bump and when all of this came to light, did you notice Charlie beginning to communicate more with Katherine Magbanua?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I believe I saw, like, a message from her. or they were on the phone once, or something like that. I asked him about it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Did you previously, in your law enforcement interview, indicate that you saw him going back and forth with Katie on the calls, like, and I said, oh, why do you guys talk so much? Do you remember that?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I do. So I was referring to on the episode where it shows him and Katie going back and forth on the calls. And then I told Charlie and said, like, you've never talked to me like that. So I was wondering why he talked so much to her --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Isn't it true --
JUNE UMCHINDA: -- at that time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- that you noticed him talking to her at odd hours prior to the media broadcast?
JUNE UMCHINDA: No. That was all in regards to the episode that I saw, that they showed him talking to her at odd hours.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You don't remember telling law enforcement that it was weird, because he didn't wake up early, and you saw that they were on the phone the times that they were talking. And it was, like, 7:00 or 8:00 and you thought, oh, that's odd?
JUNE UMCHINDA: No. I did say that, but that was in the episode. I told charlie that I thought it was odd, because we don't talk that way. And he said, we live together. So...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Have you described him as being paranoid during this time frame?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did he talk to you during this time frame about believing his phone was being tapped?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes. A lot.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Had you ever met Katherine Magbanua?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I met her briefly at -- she worked at a front desk, dermatologist office that I went to. So before I knew Charlie, I met her there.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was -- at the time that the law enforcement operation occurred, the time frame we're talking about, were you -- was Katie his most recent ex-girlfriend?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: who was the most recent ex-girlfriend?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Before me, it was someone named whitney Kiik.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So she was in between you and Katherine Magbanua.
JUNE UMCHINDA: yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you ever know Katherine Magbanua working for Charlie Adelson or the Adelson Institute?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And then when you mentioned you were still with him at the time that Magbanua was arrested, did his erratic behaviors get better or worse at the time of her arrest?
JUNE UMCHINDA: It was worse.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And can you describe those behaviors for the jury?
JUNE UMCHINDA: well, it was a lot mixed with what I said earlier, the no sleeping, depression, and our whole relationship just took a big turn, and I wasn't sure why in the beginning. He was just acting strange and would go to his friend's house and our routine kind of got destructed and I wasn't sure why. So it was just like I knew something was going on, but I didn't know exactly what the problem was. So...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Did he become angry, short-fused?
JUNE UMCHINDA: At certain times, he would.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And I'm particularly talking about this time frame, around Katie's arrest and just after that.
Uh-oh. Trick chair.
Around the time af -- right after Katie's arrest, is that the time frame where these behaviors escalated?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Right. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did -- particularly, when the case or the investigation came up, is that something that would make him angry?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Not really angry. He had different emotions every time it would come up. So...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was one of those emotions anger?
JUNE UMCHINDA: At some point, sometimes, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And did you say he would get really red and screaming and take random walks, just ask -- acting like a crazy person?
JUNE UMCHINDA: He would, at times, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did he get a second phone and maybe a third phone during that time?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I saw one more phone that he got and then it disappeared. So it was just a short period of time he had another phone.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At some point during this time frame, did Charlie Adelson begin communicating with you via whatsApp?
JUNE UMCHINDA: He did, actually, when he went to Asia because it's -- like, I guess you can talk to anyone in the country on whatsApp. So he thought it was easier that we spoke there.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was he only communicating with you via whatsApp when he was in Asia, or did he do it when he came back?
JUNE UMCHINDA: we just developed the habit after he got back. we just spoke on there all the time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you know if he was communicating with Magbanua via whatsApp?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I don't know.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did he start keeping a bag of clothes by his bed around this time?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I saw him keep a change of clothes one time or a few times, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did he sleep with a gun around there time?
JUNE UMCHINDA: He always has guns around, because he has his license to carry. So he didn't physically sleep with a gun, but he has one in his nightstand and all over the place. SO...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what about wendi Adelson? Did you notice an issue between Charlie Adelson and wendi Adelson during this time frame?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I did -- I wasn't too involved with them, but I did notice they -- one time they got into an argument.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And did he tell you it was a fight about this case?
JUNE UMCHINDA: He just said that it was something about the case. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Do you remember exactly when that was?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Not exactly. I don't know if I should guess or not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No. Please don't.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So was there a time frame where wendi and charlie were not speaking because of some type of a disagreement about this case?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what about Donna Adelson? Did her behavior change at all around this time frame that we're talking about?
JUNE UMCHINDA: So I wasn't around her a lot. But when I did see her, yes, she was upset.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did you describe her as a mess?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes. If it's there, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what does a mess mean?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Just, like, mentally upset and physically drained or not her usual self.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Was she crying when you saw her?
JUNE UMCHINDA: At a, at a point in time, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And did Charlie Adelson advise you that she was taking painkillers for stress during that time frame?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was there a time when you were on the balcony of Donna Adelson's residence and she made a statement to you about Dan Markel?
JUNE UMCHINDA: we were speaking about Dan, because the case was such a big thing at that time, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And what was the statement she made?
JUNE UMCHINDA: well, her life was crumbling down and her family's life. So she said, everything felt like Dan was haunting her from the grave -- or them. I don't know. whatever it says there.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: She feels like Dan's back from the grave, like, haunting her or something? Yeah.
JUNE UMCHINDA: In, in reference to that, yes. I don't -- yeah.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No further questions.
JUDGE EVERETT: Cross-examination.
MS. FULFORD: Just one moment, please.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Thank you.
JUDGE EVERETT: Please remain seated. The attorneys for the defense are going to examine you. Don't go anywhere.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Okay.
(off-the-record discussion.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, may I ask one more question while the defense is thinking?
JUDGE EVERETT: Go ahead.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did Charlie Adelson make a statement to you about Katherine Magbanua's breast augmentation?
JUNE UMCHINDA: After the 20/20 episode, he joked about -- he made a statement and joked about it, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what did he say?
JUNE UMCHINDA: He was saying they were thinking that he paid for the whole thing. And then he said, like, he paid -- he said he paid for one, or something, and laughed.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Only paid for one of the breasts, half of the work.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Right. But he was laughing, so it was just a joke.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
CROSS- EXAMINATION BY MS. FULFORD:
MS. FULFORD: Good morning, ma'am.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Good morning.
MS. FULFORD: My name's Jackie Fulford. And I, along with Josh Zelman, we represent Donna Adelson. I've never met you before, correct?
JUNE UMCHINDA: No, never.
MS. FULFORD: Okay. I just really have a few questions. There's been some discussion in your direct examination about what you might have told law enforcement during an initial interview, correct?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Correct.
MS. FULFORD: And you were told that, that was not being recorded, correct?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. FULFORD: And that whatever you said wasn't going to be used, right?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. FULFORD: Okay. And you gave a lengthy interview, then, that day.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. FULFORD: And at the time that you did that, you were broken up with Charlie, correct?
JUNE UMCHINDA: we were going through a horrible breakup at that time, yes.
MS. FULFORD: Okay. You previously said that, that Charlie's really good at persuading people, he lies, and he makes it believable; do you recall that?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I do.
MS. FULFORD: I want to talk about the cash for a minute. He had a lot of cash, right?
JUNE UMCHINDA: From what I saw. I don't really know his bank account but he --
MS. FULFORD: I'm just talking about the cash that you saw.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. FULFORD: Okay. And you testified -- there seems to be some confusion about whether you knew that before you saw it come out that it was stapled -- because I thought you previously had said that, when you saw in the article that Luis Rivera referred to being paid in stapled cash, that a light went off in your head because you had previously seen Charlie had stapled cash, correct?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Correct.
MS. FULFORD: Okay. And he had it, he had it stacked in hundred-dollar bills, in groups of a thousand. He put them together and he stapled them, right?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Right. I didn't see him staple them but they were --
MS. FULFORD: But you saw that it was --
JUNE UMCHINDA: -- stapled already.
MS. FULFORD: You saw that it was stapled.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Uh-huh.
MS. FULFORD: Correct?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. FULFORD: And he had a safe in his room that he kept money in.
JUNE UMCHINDA: He did.
MS. FULFORD: And it was a very large safe, correct?
JUNE UMCHINDA: He had guns in there, too. So it was large, yes.
MS. FULFORD: I think at one point you told law enforcement that it was about the size of a refrigerator, right?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Right.
MS. FULFORD: Okay. So you did an initial interview, you've been deposed, you testified in Katherine Magbanua's trial, and in Charlie's trial, right?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Right. This is my fourth trial.
MS. FULFORD: Okay. So I have the transcripts from the each of those. And you testified on direct that you didn't think the Adelsons -- referring to all of them. You didn't think they were curious about who had killed Danny and what had happened. Do you recall telling law enforcement that?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Right. At that time, it seemed that way.
MS. FULFORD: Okay. And didn't you later say that you were really just speculating about that?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. FULFORD: You testified -- let's see. when you testified in Katie Magbanua's second trial, referring to the statement about attributing to Donna that she said those words about Danny coming back from the grave and haunting her. In Katie's second trial, you actually kind of came off of that, didn't you?
JUNE UMCHINDA: wait. I'm sorry. Can you say it again?
MS. FULFORD: Yes. Sure.
JUNE UMCHINDA: I lost --
MS. FULFORD: when you testifi --
JUNE UMCHINDA: -- train of thought.
MS. FULFORD: So you originally made that statement to law enforcement. You used those words.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. FULFORD: He came back from the grave, haunting her, something to that effect.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Right.
MS. FULFORD: Okay. But when you testified in Katie's trial, didn't you say that those weren't the exact words that she said. She was just very upset, and, to you, it came out like that. Didn't you testify to that?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What's the page and line, please?
MS. FULFORD: Let's see. It will be page 1196, line -- well, it starts at line 3, the questioning. But the answer is lines 14 through 16: I don't know, like, if they, if they were those exact words. I think she was just so, like, stressed out and upset that that's how it came out.
BY MS. FULFORD:
MS. FULFORD: That's how you -- that's what you testified to, correct?
JUNE UMCHINDA: If it says it there. I don't remember Katie's trial, because it's been a while. But if it says it there, then that's what I said.
MS. FULFORD: You were testifying under oath then, correct?
JUNE UMCHINDA: (Nods head.)
MS. FULFORD: Every single time that you've given these --
JUDGE EVERETT: Please answer out loud. Don't question.
MS. FULFORD: I'm sorry.
BY MS. FULFORD:
MS. FULFORD: You were under oath --
JUDGE EVERETT: Ms. Umchinda.
BY MS. FULFORD
MS. FULFORD: -- correct?
JUNE UMCHINDA: I'm sorry?
JUDGE EVERETT: Please answer out loud all questions. Just don't nod your head.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Oh, okay.
BY MS. FULFORD:
MS. FULFORD: Because the court reporter can't put down that you're nodding your head.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Oh, okay.
MS. FULFORD: Okay. So the answer was, yes, you were under oath.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes. I think if it says that, then yes.
MS. FULFORD: well, you took an oath here today before you started testifying, correct?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Yes.
MS. FULFORD: And the other trials, you did the same thing. You swore to tell the truth, right?
JUNE UMCHINDA: Right.
MS. FULFORD: Can I have just one moment, Judge?
JUDGE EVERETT: Go ahead.
(Off-the-record discussion.)
MS. FULFORD: Nothing further.
JUDGE EVERETT: Any redirect?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: Is the witness released?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes.
JUDGE EVERETT: You may step down at this point.
JUNE UMCHINDA: Thank you.
JUDGE EVERETT: Have a good day.
JUNE UMCHINDA: You, too.