6.Patrick Sanford — Direct
1,116 linesJUDGE EVERETT: You may step down. Please call your next witness.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Special Agent Pat Sanford.
JUDGE EVERETT: Agent Sanford, please raise your right hand.
whereupon, PATRICK SANFORD was recalled as a witness, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
JUDGE EVERETT: You may take your seat.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I guess I will have you reintroduce yourself.
PATRICK SANFORD: Again, I'm Special Agent Patrick Sanford with the FBI.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. I want to circle back to a couple of questions I missed last time with you, and then we will talk about the wiretaps in this case. In reference to Professor Markel, he was transported from the scene to the hospital, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you know how long he survived before he was pronounced dead?
PATRICK SANFORD: Approximately 14 hours.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And I want to ask you a few questions in reference to wendi Adelson. wendi Adelson advises that the Markels, meaning Dan's parents, have had unfettered access to their grandchildren; is that true?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not to my knowledge, no.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How many visits have they had with their grandchildren, say, between May of '16 and April of 2022?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't believe they've had any visits during that time period.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And what about since then?
PATRICK SANFORD: Maybe less than a handful. I can't remember exactly how many, but just a few.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does three sound correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That sounds right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: After Wendi got skewered at the first trial for not allowing any visits, she then allowed a visit, right?
MR. RASHBAUM: Objection, Your Honor. Leading and mischaracterizes testimony.
JUDGE EVERETT: Overruled as to those grounds.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When was -- I'll rephrase it, Your Honor.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when was the first visit that the Markel family had after their son was murdered with their grandchildren?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was a few weeks before the scheduled trial of Katherine Magbanua because we had -- we ended up delaying the grand jury indictment of Mr. Adelson so they could meet.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: For fear that if we proceeded with the indictment as scheduled, that visit might be canceled?
MR. RASHBAUM: Objection, Your Honor. Leading and foundation.
JUDGE EVERETT: Sustained as to foundation.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. I want to turn your attention to Mr. Rivera. We heard from Mr. Rivera. Are you familiar with his role in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And were you aware that Mr. Rivera chose to become a witness in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In exchange for a plea deal?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: were you present when he gave his proffered testimony initially?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Did we learn anything new in the proffer with Mr. Rivera that we had not known as part of the investigation already?
PATRICK SANFORD: we did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was one of those items related to Mr. Garcia shooting a hole in the rental car?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Had -- at the time that you were interviewing Rivera, or taking this proffer from Rivera, had law enforcement already tracked down that particular Prius, the suspect vehicle, in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: we had. It had been sold previously, and we tracked it down.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And upon that initial inspection, was this bullet hole discovered?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, we were unaware of it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: After the proffer with Mr. Rivera, did law enforcement go back to look at the Prius to see if there was any evidence to corroborate what Rivera was saying about that particular item?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we did. we went back and took possession of the vehicle and got a search warrant and searched it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm showing you State's Exhibits 49 through 53. Do you recognize these exhibits?
PATRICK SANFORD: I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How do you recognize them?
PATRICK SANFORD: These are photographs taken when they reacquired the vehicle and conducted the search warrant and found the actual bullet hole going through, where it went through and severed the gas line, and it was repaired.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Are they fair and accurate photos of the Prius upon that second inspection that was made by law enforcement?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Move into evidence 49 through 53.
JUDGE EVERETT: Any objection?
MR. RASHBAUM: No objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: 49 through 53 are admitted at this time.
(State's Exhibits 49 through 53 received in evidence.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May I publish?
JUDGE EVERETT: You may.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Publishing 49. Publish 50, please. Is that just documenting the VIN number of the vehicle?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Publish 51, what does the rod show in the vehicle?
PATRICK SANFORD: It shows the path of the bullet and where the hole is and the path which it traveled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is it in the passenger seat floorboard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Publish 52, please. Publish 53. All right. what does this exhibit show?
PATRICK SANFORD: This is the fuel line. You can see where it had been severed and had been repaired.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Mr. Rivera testified that he knew Dan Markel was leaving town the day after he was killed, and that's why the killing had to happen on the day it did. Are you familiar with that piece of his testimony?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And have we ever found any -- let me strike that. Have you had an opportunity to review Mr. Markel's Facebook?
PATRICK SANFORD: I have.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was there anything on his Facebook indicating that he was going out of town the day after he was killed?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, there wasn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Have you had an opportunity to review the PrawfsBlawg (phonetic) that was provided by the Defense in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: Some of it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And is the -- does the PrawfsBlawg provide specific information that would let these killers know that he was going to New York the next day?
PATRICK SANFORD: There was just a reference to a conference that was being put on.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That Danny and I are going to a conference?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So someone else saying, Danny and I are going to a conference that starts on X date?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. There was no other information detailing his travels.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is that published in the form of, like, an alert, or is it just in a narrative of a lot of other stuff?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it was buried inside a lot of other stuff inside of comments.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. I want to move on to the wire. whose phones were tapped in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: Katherine Magbanua's and Charlie Adelson's.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How many phone calls were intercepted total?
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, wow, thousands.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Have you reviewed the disc of calls that were prepared -- selected and prepared for the jury's consideration in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I have.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Are they all fair and accurate recordings of calls intercepted pursuant to the wiretap in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, they are.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time, I would move into evidence State's 108. It's a thumb drive containing the wire calls.
JUDGE EVERETT: Any objection?
MR. RASHBAUM: NO, Your Honor, other than our previous objection.
JUDGE EVERETT: State's 108 will be admitted at this time over objection. Go ahead.
(State's Exhibit 108 received in evidence.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May I confer with the opposing counsel for a moment?
JUDGE EVERETT: Take your time.
(Pause. )
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Judge, I'm sorry. we had an issue we should have handled before the jury came in. I think we are ready to proceed.
JUDGE EVERETT: Go ahead.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So in reviewing the calls that were captured on this wiretap, was there any evidence of Donna Adelson and Charlie Adelson meddling in wendi Adelson's life?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there's quite a bit.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And I wanted to bring your attention first to a text message that was included in Sergeant Corbitt's presentation about pulling the plug on a home purchase. Are you familiar with that text message?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And for the jury's reference, it's page 218 in Sergeant Corbitt's presentation, but we've already seen these text messages. Can you tell me why that -- the date of the pulling the plug on the house is of interest to your investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: That text message was sent on Halloween of 2013, which was the same time frame that Katherine Magbanua said that Charlie came to her.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So the pulling the plug on the house, who's pulling the plug on the house?
PATRICK SANFORD: wendi was pulling the plug on the house. She was looking to buy a house, and Charlie was talking to her about not purchasing the house, not wanting her to purchase a house in Tallahassee.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was that done at someone else's urging to Charlie?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: who was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: His mother, Donna Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And this date where it's revealed in the text that wendi pulled the plug on the house is the same date that Charlie Adelson first approached Magbanua about harming Markel?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And that's Halloween, October 31st, 2013?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. I want to move on to Dave. Do you know who Dave is as a subject that comes up quite a bit on the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who is Dave?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's one of wendi's ex-boyfriends named Dave Aitel.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And is this the person she was dating apparently at the time of the wiretap?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And is she -- is Dave the subject of discussion between Donna Adelson and Charlie Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: He is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So the two of them are talking about wendi's love life?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Have you reviewed the wire to find out how many times Dave comes up on the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: Quite a few, at least a dozen times.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That they are having conversations about the status of wendi's relationship with Dave?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. And some of the conversations are quite lengthy.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And, Judge, for this I have just figured out what 128 was supposed to be. Okay. Could we mark this, whatever is next?
All right. So it's going to be 129, Your Honor. I've got a couple additional calls that I'd like to publish starting with this call, which is call 989. So I'm moving to introduce State's -- what's the number, Ms. Dugan?
MS. DUGAN: 129.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm moving to introduce 129, which is a thumb drive containing additional wire calls, including 989, which I would like to publish at this time.
JUDGE EVERETT: Any objection?
MR. RASHBAUM: Assuming it is what I've been told it is, no objection.
JUDGE EVERETT: I didn't ask for a caveat or lawyer speak. Do you have an objection? Let's take a brief break.
Members of the jury, the bailiff will take you back to the jury room.
(Jury exits the courtroom.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated. I'm not trying to make light of it, Mr. Rashbaum, but I need it to be affirmative one way or the other. Please play the recording for the Defense.
MR. RASHBAUM: I just need a date of the recording, a date and time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: 989 occurred on April 15th of 2016 at 8:21 p.m., and then I also intend to publish 2873, which occurred on May 3rd, 2016, at 7:53 p.m.
MS. MEYERS: May 23rd you said?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, ma'am.
MR. RASHBAUM: May 23rd?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Correct -- I'm sorry. Did I say that?
MR. RASHBAUM: TI don't know.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The first one is 989, 4-15 of '16 at 8:21 p.m. The second one is 2873, May 3rd, 2016, 7:53 p.m.
JUDGE EVERETT: Agent, if you need to step down, it looks like this is your opportunity to do so.
PATRICK SANFORD: Thank you, sir.
(Court is in recess.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Do you have an affirmative statement at this point as to any objections?
MR. RASHBAUM: No objection.
JUDGE EVERETT: Please bring the jurors in.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: We do have a number change. It's going to be 130 now. But I'll clear that up for them as well.
(jury enters the courtroom.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated.
Ms. Cappleman, you may continue.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Agent Sanford, I've made a mess of a couple of things. So can we circle back to the wendi giving Dan's parents visitation question?
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Are you familiar with the email that Dan's mother sent regarding the Jewish-run child services organization?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Between that time in May of 2016 and April of 2022, how many visits did the Markels have with their grandchildren?
PATRICK SANFORD: As far as I'm -- the information I have is zero.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So not unfettered access?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And since then, three visits, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct, to the best of my knowledge.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Thank you. All right. My next mess is this exhibit, which is now going to be 130, not 129 as I previously indicated, because we had already identified something previously as 129. So 130 is going to be the Dave call, okay?
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So you're familiar with this particular call. It's call No. 989 on the wire. Do you remember it?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And this call was made on April 15th of 2016 at 8:21 p.m. Sound right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That sounds right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. At this time, Judge, I'd ask to move into evidence State's 130 and publish call 989.
JUDGE EVERETT: Is there an objection as to State's 130?
MR. RASHBAUM: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: It is admitted at this time.
(State's Exhibit 130 received in evidence.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And if we could just start at 8:56, please. All right. Could we pause it?
All right. So, Judge, this may be a good time to have the jury advised that they each have headphones and may make use of them. If they don't need them, that's okay, but if they want them, you have volume controls for everyone.
JUDGE EVERETT: Members of the jury, please take your headphones if you wish to listen in that fashion. where are the volume controls on the headphones?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: They are in the front. So the front row is going to have to tinker with it. why don't we just play a minute of this as a test, and then we can back it up once everyone gives me the thumbs-up on volume.
(An audio recording is published briefly in open court.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Judge, could we inquire as to if everyone is comfortable with those -- that equipment at this time?
JUDGE EVERETT: For everyone who is going to wear the headphones, do you have anything that you need to raise concerning them?
All right. They are nodding their heads in the affirmative that the headphones are working and giving a thumbs-up. Let's go ahead.
(An audio recording is published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of these proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
DONNA ADELSON: Of course.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Like, where do you think it's going to be, wen? I mean -- I wouldn't -- you know, and it's -- the problem is too -- it's like she has to hear from me because I'm in that demographic of guys she wants to date.
DONNA ADELSON: Right. Right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And I don't have a problem telling her, Wendi, you put a Victoria Secret model in front of me at 37, I'm not asking her on a date, no.
DONNA ADELSON: She needs to know, Charlie, how unusual a guy he is.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Of course.
DONNA ADELSON: And Cinaudible), you know, especially --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Mom, mom, mom, I have done --
DONNA ADELSON: I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- above and beyond.
DONNA ADELSON: I know, honey.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And I will continue to talk to her.
DONNA ADELSON: I know. I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But there's -- you know, there's a limit to -- there's a point at which someone purposely will do what you're asking them to do -- purposely do the opposite.
DONNA ADELSON: Well, she's going to screw her life because there isn't going to be another Dave. There isn't going to be another Dave.
CHARLIE ADELSON: what's that?
DONNA ADELSON: There's not going to be another Dave.
CHARLIE ADELSON: No. No. And the reason why -- I'll never tell someone you can't win the lottery twice, but I can tell you this. The probability is not in your favor. The probability is not in your favor of winning the lotto once. Winning it twice, even more, and that's -- you know, that's how I talk to her. Because what happens is this --
DONNA ADELSON: Because that's what she needs to hear.
CHARLIE ADELSON: She understands when I -- I don't ever offend her because I don't talk about her. I just say, Wendi, listen, if you put a 37-year-old Victoria Secret model in front of me, I wouldn't want to get serious with her. why? when I can be witha 25-year-old. I said, a 25-year-old is going to be (inaudible) in 15 years. I go, You want to buy a car with high mileage or low mileage?
I go, listen, wendi, you don't want to date a guy that's 50. You know why? Because he's too old for you, and he is going to be 60 in 10 years, and 10 years from now you don't want to see yourself with a 60-year-old. I get it. So it is what it is.
DONNA ADELSON: But you can definitely ask her why she's not going out with Dave because you were there
(inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Mom, I know.
DONNA ADELSON: I opened it for you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Mom, of course, but just hear me out. I can talk to wendi differently than anyone can, but even when I do, I don't -- I don't reference it as saying, Wendi, in a million years I wouldn't date a girl like you with two kids, but it's true. In a million years I wouldn't. what I would say is, wendi, the Victoria's Secret model I wouldn't have you set me up with if she was 37.
And that's just -- it's a double standard, but that's life. And she knows about double standards in life. It is what it is. So all I can say is, like, when I talk to her and I put it in those terms, she gets it. She gets it.
But, you know, obviously, it doesn't help that she's got these fucking friends --
DONNA ADELSON: Friends, I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- that tell her that you deserve the superman with the -- some guy who is a doctor who is single who is just dying to take over the responsibility of two kids who aren't his.
DONNA ADELSON: Right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Like -- and there's tons of very wealthy, successful, young, good-looking guys that want to date her because nothing is more fun than to have a six-year-old fart in your face when you're trying to talk to your girlfriend when you get home from work. That's awesome.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's cool.
DONNA ADELSON: And only someone like him who's got three boys, who knows what it's like, could understand it, and it doesn't even bother him.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, and it's not only that. Listen, let me give you the example. Ted Burman -- do you remember Cinaudible) that had that crazy mom who lived on the other street? The lawyer?
DONNA ADELSON: No, of course. Of course.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Ted Burman got divorced from his wife. He is engaged now. I told you about that, right?
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So, yeah, he took a whole bunch of people -- he took -- you know warren Sapp?
DONNA ADELSON: (Inaudible.)
CHARLIE ADELSON: The football player, yeah. He took warren Sapp, Javon Hurst, a whole bunch of his friends, like, paid for everybody -- for like 20 people to go for the weekend to Atlantis. He will go there and spend like $50,000. So his wife ended up sleeping with Javon Hurst.
DONNA ADELSON: Nice.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So, anyway -- so he is engaged now to a girl that he has known forever. Okay. He has three kids. I'm in that age group. TI don't know one, and I'm wondering if you've met one. It's not -- I mean, yes, your kids are a blessing Cinaudible), but they are a burden to somebody else.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, that's true.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Like, I mean, listen, do I look like the kind of guy that wants to come home from work and talk to my 37-year-old girlfriend while her kid farts in my face? No. They are my nephews. I love them. But as far as dating someone, hell, no.
DONNA ADELSON: I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I want to go ahead and tell my girlfriend, listen, let's go away for the weekend. what time -- can you get off next Friday? Okay. I don't want to go, like, Oh, we've got to deal with -- you know, can we get the in-laws to watch them? what does their schedule look like? It's not just wendi. It's Wendi and the Cinaudible) boys. It's three people you are dealing with.
DONNA ADELSON: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So you can't -- you know -- and trust me. I know what to say.
DONNA ADELSON: TI Know you do. I know you do.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I mean -- and, listen -- anda part of me is pissed because you know what? Someone gets handed a golden opportunity --
DONNA ADELSON: And you know what? That's what she has to hear. Sometimes you get, you know, the gold ring (inaudible) and, you know, I don't know why she's got her hand stuck up in her ass or something.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Because she has everyone telling her that she is such a great catch because she is, but they're not -- but guess what?
DONNA ADELSON: They're not living her life.
CHARLIE ADELSON: They're not living her life, and they're not breaking it down and saying who's -- you know, listen, the guy who may treat her really well just may never really bother -- like, there's so many aspects to it. So he may be a great guy, but he doesn't really want to do anything with your kids. What are you going to do? Kick him out too?
DONNA ADELSON: This guy -- not only is crazy about her, but he's crazy about those boys.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know.
DONNA ADELSON: (Inaudible) and that's what --
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's why.
DONNA ADELSON: -- gets me.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Because the truth is, she will meet -- she can meet a great guy. And, yeah, those aren't his boys, and he just doesn't like them. what is she going to do? Get rid of him. He may treat her well, but he's like okay with the kids.
DONNA ADELSON: He will tolerate the kids. He will put up with them.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Put up with them or whatever. And then what if they are real nice to the boys on day one but, you know, three years down the road he has had enough of them. They ain't his. You know, they are going through a tough time. I mean, I'm just saying --
DONNA ADELSON: I think she needs to know that she's been given an opportunity that she -- most likely will never happen again.
CHARLIE ADELSON: No. Listen, I mean --
DONNA ADELSON: And if she throws it away, she is not only throwing it away for herself, she is throwing it away for these kids that deserve a dad.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But you don't understand. You could never say that to her. well, you can. It would just --
DONNA ADELSON: I could. Yeah, I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You can say anything you want. It's America. I mean, I hate to tell you the end of -- you could tell me the beginning, and I could tell you how it would end.
DONNA ADELSON: If you weren't here, that's what I would do. I would try. I would try.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, you fuck it up good, and go, I tried. You would get -- mom, you would get 30 seconds into your planned speech before she told you to butt out of her life, and rightfully so. It's her life. She can tell you whatever she wants, but the difference -- the difference is, is that I can talk to her differently than you can.
DONNA ADELSON: I know. Charlie, believe me -- and I'm grateful that you do. I really -- you know that. You know that.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Trust me. I know. TI mean, listen. She's doing great considering everything she's been through. I would just like --
DONNA ADELSON: But you know what? She's just -- she's your sister. She loves you. She's a good sister, and you're an amazing brother. And I'm just grateful the two of you have each other. I really am.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, I am too, but I can tell you this --
DONNA ADELSON: I really am.
CHARLIE ADELSON: No --
DONNA ADELSON: And I appreciate what you do because who else is going to do it? who else is going to say, Hey, wake up? You know, this is -- this is not only the perfect guy for you but a dad to these boys. My God.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Mom, I got -- mom, listen. Most people don't ever get an opportunity like this to begin with.
DONNA ADELSON: JI know. I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I am just saying, like, to begin with --
DONNA ADELSON: I'm shocked that she does.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And that's -- and that's what I can -- listen, mom.
DONNA ADELSON: I feel like knocking her in the head. I mean it. I'm going like, wake up. wake up.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Trust me, mom. Mom, believe -- Jet me say this much to you. As much as you feel like knocking her over the head, I feel like punching her and then knocking her over the head.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So trust -- trust me on this.
DONNA ADELSON: I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So what I'm telling you is that I'll talk to her, and I will do my best. which my best is very good.
DONNA ADELSON: I know it is.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And, listen, and you've got to understand. The way I'll tell her too is, like, wendi, she loves Jess. I think Jess is awesome. Jess will be a great friend to me, and I talk to Jess all the time. wendi, I wouldn't date Jess in a million years because she's 37, and she has no kids.
DONNA ADELSON: And she has no kids and desperately wants children.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Absolutely. I said, but she has no -- I go but Cinaudible). So it's like you winning the lotto and saying, I'll never win the lotto again. That's not true. You still have a one in 14 million chance. I'm not going to take that from you. You can get out there and buy another ticket and win the lotto.
(Audio recording concluded.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So just to clarify, this call is -- oh, I guess I've got to wait for you to take your headphones off.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: This call happens two years after Dan Markel's death?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did wendi end up marrying Dave?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she didn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. what about -- so we talked about the meddling in her financial decisions, her love life. what about her career? Do they talk about that as well?
PATRICK SANFORD: They do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And I'm referring to Donna Adelson and the Defendant discussing wendi Adelson's career decisions.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Are you familiar with call 2873, also here on Exhibit 130?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was that call made on May 3rd, 2016 at 7:53 p.m.?
PATRICK SANFORD: That sounds correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Permission to publish this call, Your Honor?
JUDGE EVERETT: You may.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of these proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
DONNA ADELSON: -- and other stuff from this firm.
Ben, gO put your shirt on, sweetie.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So I don't know if I told you this. I got Wendi to accept that job with the
(inaudible).
DONNA ADELSON: with who?
CHARLIE ADELSON: She told me she was going to accept -- like after I got done --
DONNA ADELSON: She did?
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- going on the walk with her, she said she was going to accept that job.
DONNA ADELSON: No kidding.
CHARLIE ADELSON: She was thinking about not taking it.
DONNA ADELSON: I think if it's not what she wants -- but it's only about --
CHARLIE ADELSON: But I said, wendi -- I said, first of all, there's no time frame on it.
DONNA ADELSON: Right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And if you change your mind, you change your mind. So -- but you'll pick up skills you don't have.
DONNA ADELSON: Right. That's right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And, basically, now's not the time to just chill and be a guidance counselor at Miami. Like, you're way overqualified for that.
DONNA ADELSON: But she can't get hired. She can't get hired anyway. There's, like, nothing there.
CHARLIE ADELSON: No, no, no. They offered her a job at UM. The dean called her up at UM.
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, she didn't tell me that.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, but it would have been basically like as a --
DONNA ADELSON: She's not qualified to be a guidance counselor.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Not a guidance counselor, an adviser or whatever it was.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Like, she's like, no, it basically would have been brainless work for her. The way she said it, she said even the dean called her up to ask her to take the job. But the thing is, I'm like, wendi, you have to get as much skill as you can now.
DONNA ADELSON: Right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: If this is a skill you just got done telling me you don't really know how to do, now is the time to go learn that skill, not later.
DONNA ADELSON: Right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Like, you need to learn it. So at least you can learn it and say you don't like it. You can learn it. You can make a bunch of money. That's -- you know, that's the whole thing is that she can -- you know, I'm like, wendi -- and then you might as well do it to see if you even like it. She's like, well, it's not really what I like --
DONNA ADELSON: But she's never done it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right. But you've never done it.
DONNA ADELSON: Right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So you really don't -- you don't know until you -- it's like dentistry. Until you practice dentistry, you don't really know what it's like.
DONNA ADELSON: Exactly. Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So I got her to do that, and then the other thing I was going to tell you is she asked me if Dave could come to the house for Mother's Day.
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, she asked you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, if I would mind. And I said, Of course I mind. Don't bring him. TI told her --
DONNA ADELSON: When did she ask you that?
CHARLIE ADELSON: She texted me the other day, and I said, Yeah, bring him. The more the merrier.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah. why not? It's fun.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, I don't care. I mean --
DONNA ADELSON: Listen, I wouldn't care if you take the kids and her and Dave out on the boat for an hour, you know, get them by the pool just to help, you know,
(inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible), yeah, no, I told her, of course, bring him.
DONNA ADELSON: Of course.
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI mean, I'm sure you would rather her go spend the day with him than you anyway. You know, it's the best Mother's Day present you could have given me. Go spend the day with him.
DONNA ADELSON: You know what, I'm actually -- I'm happy. As you know, I'm super happy Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, oh, yeah. No, I thought that would -- I thought that would be your best Mother's Day present this year, wendi wants to bring Dave. She is developing a brain.
DONNA ADELSON: She's developing a brain. That's right. You know what -- I have to walk away so they don't hear me, but you know what Ben said to me before? I said, Ben, you know -- because he is not -- well, both boys are not very good at hugging and kissing. And it always makes wendi feel bad. I said, honey, they are boys. They are just not the way girls are. Girls are more kissy.
So I said to her -- Ben -- I said. I said, you know, people who love you hug and kiss. I said, that's what grandma and grandpa always want, to get a hug anda kiss when we say bye. I always did that with my mommy and daddy. And I did that with my children, and I do that with my grandchildren.
So he said, yeah, it's like -- it's like Dave and Mommy. They are hugging and kissing all the time because they love each other. I said, um, yeah, I guess so. So, you know, you can never hide anything from the children.
DONNA ADELSON: Once they have a mouth, they open it up and they tell you everything, you know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. No, that's great. I mean, listen, wendi just doesn't comprehend at all how lucky she is.
DONNA ADELSON: No, she doesn't.
CHARLIE ADELSON: It doesn't, like, register in her head how lucky she is at all. No -- not even like -- nothing. It's just -- which is great, you know?
DONNA ADELSON: I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But at least she doesn't see herself as a victim anymore, which is great too.
DONNA ADELSON: I'm just happy to hear that she is spending more and more time with Dave. That's great.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, no. So she's --
DONNA ADELSON: And the funny thing was, I --
(Audio recording concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's move on to the bump. was the bump on April 19th, 2016?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what time of day was the bump?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe it was around 1:45, 1:50, somewhere around there.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. In the afternoon?
PATRICK SANFORD: In the afternoon, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: were you involved in that operation?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what was your role?
PATRICK SANFORD: I was the lead agent, came up with the -- brought the undercover down there, and we -- I coordinated everything.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. what was the purpose of the bump?
PATRICK SANFORD: The purpose was we had just began Title ill on the individuals. And we knew it had been two years after the homicide, and we wanted to purport -- the undercover agent to pretend to be somebody that Luis Rivera knew. Luis Rivera was currently in prison at the time -- had been in jail, and was in prison. And we wanted to make it seem that Luis Rivera was talking to people and telling people what he had done and possibly even wanting more money out of it because his family was struggling because he was in prison.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: why did you select Donna Adelson to be the recipient of this bump?
PATRICK SANFORD: Because we've noticed a pattern of calls leading up to the murder and around the time of the murder. The calls were always Donna Adelson to Charlie Adelson to Katherine Magbanua to Sigfredo Garcia and then back. It was always going back and forth pretty much in that order. So we wanted to start it on one end and see what would happen, see if it would travel that same line of persons -- people.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Judge, at this time, I would like to publish State's 105, the bump video.
JUDGE EVERETT: You may proceed.
(Video recording briefly published in open court.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Pause it for just a moment.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So on the left side of the screen, we've got two different things going on here. Can you explain what we're looking at?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, on the left side is a body recorder that the undercover agent was wearing, and it has video and audio on it. So what you're hearing is audio coming from the undercover agent and his video. On the right side is a separate video taken from surveillance agents that were in the area watching.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So the woman we are seeing on the stairs here, is that Donna Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: It is. And she's exiting the Icon, which is on South Beach, her condominium. That's the stairs coming from her condominium toward the street.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Please proceed.
(A video recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of these proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Video begins:)
OSCAR JIMENEZ JR.: Black shorts? what is it? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Bye.
Excuse me, Ms. Adelson? How you doing? I just want to give you this. Listen --
DONNA ADELSON: who are you? You scared me.
OSCAR JIMENEZ JR.: Don't be scared. Listen, I just want to let you know that we know that your family has been taking care of Katie and her friend Tuto for quite some time after your problem up north has resolved.
And I want to let you know that my brother -- he's incarcerated. He helped your family with this problem you guys had up north, and we want to make sure that -- he's going through some rough times, and we want to make sure that you take care of what he's going through the way you're taking care of Katie and Tuto.
DONNA ADELSON: TI don't know what you're talking about.
OSCAR JIMENEZ JR.: well, this will explain it. Thank you.
(Video recording concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: where does Ms. Adelson go after the conclusion of the bump?
PATRICK SANFORD: She goes into the elementary school there to the door to the right, goes inside, and retrieves the children, and then goes back to the Icon back across the street.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And are those wendi and Dan Markel's children?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, they are.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So they are in school just literally less than a block over?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right across the street from where she lives.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And when the undercover bumps Ms. Adelson, does she -- do we know if she had a cell phone on her person?
PATRICK SANFORD: we don't know that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. But she didn't take one out and make a phone call?
PATRICK SANFORD: She did not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. when is her first phone call after the bump?
PATRICK SANFORD: After she goes back into the Icon.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And the undercover references a name Katie -- actually two names, Katie and Tuto. was there a strategic reason why the name Katie was used?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Could you tell us what that was?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, basically, we believed that the Adelson family had been already in the public limelight because of the bad divorce. we believed they possibly could be --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let me back you up. Because of a bad divorce they were in the limelight, or under suspicion for this murder?
PATRICK SANFORD: Under suspicion for the murder because of the bad = divorce.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I am with you.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay. And then -- so we felt like Katie couldn't -- we felt like Katie's name had to be put in there to let them know that it wasn't a random person just trying to come and extort them, that it was -- that it had some legitimacy to it because the person actually was in prison. He's the one who did commit the murder, and he was the one that we wanted to portray that he was providing information to other people about the homicide.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who is the first person that Donna Adelson calls after this bump?
PATRICK SANFORD: Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Judge, at this time, I'd ask to introduce 124. This is a wire call summary that I've created to assist the jurors with following along with these wire calls.
JUDGE EVERETT: Any objection?
MR. RASHBAUM: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: 124 is admitted at this time.
(State's Exhibit 124 received in evidence.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, I've marked one copy for evidence. would it be permissible to pass out copies so everyone can follow along?
JUDGE EVERETT: Please show them to the Defense, but, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
JUROR: we need one more, please.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That's the exhibit. Let me give this to the witness.
All right. Judge, for the jury's purposes, will they be able to make notes on this and take it with them? Or do they need to make their notes separately?
JUDGE EVERETT: Does the Defense have any objection to the jurors writing on the summary and taking it with them?
MR. RASHBAUM: No, not at all. I think it's a great idea.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well. That settles the matter.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. At this time, Your Honor, I will ask to publish what's marked as Call A on the -- have I introduced this exhibit?
All right. Let's introduce the wire calls themselves, and those are 108, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: 108, I believe, has already been admitted over objection.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Then they are already in. So this will be Call A from 108 that we would like to publish at this time.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of these proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
DONNA ADELSON: So, you know, if you have time tonight after work or some other time in the very near future, I'm going to need to speak with you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Did someone write a letter to you or something?
DONNA ADELSON: I got some -- I got some paperwork hand-delivered to me.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You're being sued?
DONNA ADELSON: No. That's what I thought it was, but I'm going to need to talk to you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay. So, I mean, I could even --
(inaudible) have to figure out something (inaudible)
DONNA ADELSON: wherever you are --
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, I'm at Mitch Klein's office on Oakland Park Boulevard.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So I'm -- right now I'm at (inaudible), and then I'll be at his office in the -- in the afternoon.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay. So the boys will finish their -- they will finish their piano lesson around 4:00ish, and it may take me -- depending how bad the traffic will be. I may take a ride with them up there.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Does dad know about this?
DONNA ADELSON: No, dad's at work today, fortunately.
CHARLIE ADELSON: what's Cinaudible) the IRS or --
DONNA ADELSON: You know, those IRS people, they kind of bother you sometimes, but, you know, fortunately not now.
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI got you.
DONNA ADELSON: So I will talk to you. I will give you a heads-up if I am going to drive out that way.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay? And Cinaudible) --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Does Wendi know about it? Does it involve wendi or anything?
DONNA ADELSON: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. So let me just talk to you later and --
CHARLIE ADELSON: what is it? Is everyone's health okay?
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Does it involve me or other people?
DONNA ADELSON: Well, probably both of us.
CHARLIE ADELSON: what's that?
DONNA ADELSON: Probably the two of us. So you probably have a general idea what I'm talking about.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right.
DONNA ADELSON: So let's -- let's just find some time to talk to each other, and I'1l1 take the boys for a ride, okay?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Are you going to take the boys up there?
DONNA ADELSON: Well, Wendi doesn't come home -- she doesn't get here until about 7:00, and that's when dad gets here.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So it's urgent you talk to me today?
DONNA ADELSON: Today or tomorrow. I mean, it's important.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right.
DONNA ADELSON: TI don't know what to do.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, I will be up at Mitch Klein's office. Do you want to come up --
DONNA ADELSON: Until late?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Oh, yeah, until really late.
DONNA ADELSON: I'm just concerned that I would have to get up there and get back in time for wendi to get them. Sometimes she gets out a little early. I wouldn't want her to come and them not be here. (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Can I ask you a question? who was the paperwork sent from?
DONNA ADELSON: I see, Ben. That's great.
It was something that came hand to hand to me as I exited the building today.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Was it -- was it anonymous or --
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, no, it's not anonymous. It's not anonymous. I just don't want to discuss it over the phone.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. whatever it is, it is.
DONNA ADELSON: I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. It's silly, but if you want --
DONNA ADELSON: I wouldn't bother you. Trust me.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, I know. I know. Do you want me to come down to see you tomorrow? TI actually have the day off.
DONNA ADELSON: Yes, that would be wonderful. Dad actually works later tomorrow. You know, he goes in at 1 o'clock. we both work out at the gym from 9:30 to 10:30, so --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Whatever it is, I'll take a look at the paperwork.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I hope it's not the IRS, but I will --
DONNA ADELSON: I just would like you to review it and to give me some input as to what -- what your thoughts are.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay. So come down tomorrow. Dad leaves at 12:00. So anytime after 12:00 would be good.
CHARLIE ADELSON: 12:00 tomorrow?
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, he leaves at 12:00. He starts at 1:00 there. So 12:00, 12:15 Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. I will come down in the afternoon. That way I can hang out with you and see the boys too.
DONNA ADELSON: That would be great.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Perfect. All right. I will talk to you later.
DONNA ADELSON: Love you, honey. Bye.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Love you. Bye.
(Audio recording concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So we've got -- it seems like we are picking up mid-stride there a little bit, like we might have missed the first couple of words. Can you explain if that's true and why that is?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, it could have been a couple of reasons. Technology missed it, or it could have been that the officer picked, you know, it up and hit the record button a little bit late just after a few seconds.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And in this call, does Donna Adelson -- the things she was handed is State's Exhibit 78, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does she ever mention to the Defendant even the name of Dan Markel?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she does not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Danny?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Jibbers?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. we've established that the undercover did say the name Katie to Donna Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does Donna Adelson say the name Katie to the Defendant?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she doesn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what does she say?
PATRICK SANFORD: She says a girlfriend.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: who does she say this matter involves? Not wendi, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right. Not wendi, the two of them.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: who does she say?
PATRICK SANFORD: The two of them.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The two of us?
PATRICK SANFORD: The two of us.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Meaning herself and Charlie Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is there another call where the Defendant calls Ms. Adelson back shortly after this?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is that the next call on the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: It is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How long after the first call is this call that we're about to hear, Call B?
PATRICK SANFORD: From my memory, a few minutes. I mean, I could look -- refer to the notes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You can look on the wire call summary in front of you.
PATRICK SANFORD: 2:09, it was five minutes -- the call we just listened to was five minutes long -- a little over five minutes. This call is at 2:35.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So less than half an hour?
PATRICK SANFORD: correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Publish B, please?
JUDGE EVERETT: You may.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of these proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey. How are you?
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Good. Is it -- is it me not paying the SunPass? I'm just kidding. No, listen. what was I going to say? Do you mind paying my Brown and Brown Insurance?
DONNA ADELSON: No, that's fine.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Because I'm going to just stick with the same company.
DONNA ADELSON: They're supposed to shop it for you, you know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. But the thing of it is, if you stay with the same company for three years, they can then try to bump you down into a lower bracket.
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, okay. So it's a good idea to do that.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So I might as well stay with them and then hope that that's actually true, that they can do what they said about putting it in a lower bracket.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay. So you want me to call Pam Hall?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, because I told her that my mom would call her because she handles, like, that stuff with the office.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And then just write -- and then just send them in a check because they have to have it before, I want to say, the 29th or something.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay. I will do that now.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And then do that. And, listen, whatever it is, whatever someone sent you, I wouldn't worry too much about anything.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I mean, someone can -- someone can write whatever they want to write. Someone can say whatever they want to say, and I'm not worried.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So was it another bad review on Yelp?
DONNA ADELSON: You know, those reviews come in, and sometimes they are bad reviews. This is a particularly, particularly bad one. So you know --
CHARLIE ADELSON: But I'm not being sued?
DONNA ADELSON: No, no.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. All right. Honestly, whatever it is, it is. And I wouldn't -- just judging from what you are making it sound like, I wouldn't stress about it too much.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay, honey. Okay. It is probably nothing, probably nothing.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. Listen, people -- people can always write. People can always say anything they want. It doesn't -- you know, if someone says you're a bad dentist, it doesn't mean you're a bad dentist.
DONNA ADELSON: No, of course not.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So -- but, anyway, I will definitely come down. It actually works out perfectly because I have the day off.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay. You know, I'll make you take me out to dinner; so make sure you bring cash with you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So I need to bring cash?
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, if you take me out to dinner, I want to have, you know, really -- that is probably a good idea, right?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
DONNA ADELSON: Yes.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I should bring cash. I don't have much cash to bring.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, I'll -- okay. I'll see if I have money for dinner. we'll see. we'll see what I have here, okay?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Was it -- can I ask you, is someone blackmailing you?
DONNA ADELSON: well, that is always a good possibility.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Do you think someone is trying to blackmail you?
DONNA ADELSON: Maybe. Could be. I don't know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: No, that's crazy.
DONNA ADELSON: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Is there -- I don't know what anyone would blackmail you for. But is there any way I can see you? You can't come up here at all?
DONNA ADELSON: It's going to be difficult because they don't finish their -- the piano teacher doesn't leave until about 4:15. And even if I came up there and got there a little after maybe 5:15, it would still be tough to, you know, necessarily get back here in time for wendi to pick them up.
CHARLIE ADELSON: was this -- can I just ask you this? was it -- is this anything government related, or is this like a whack job writing a letter to you?
DONNA ADELSON: Like who?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Is it, like, a whack job writing a letter to you, or is this government related?
DONNA ADELSON: No, I don't know if it is government related. (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: So it is not government or military or anything like that?
DONNA ADELSON: NO, no, no.
CHARLIE ADELSON: who is the letter addressed to?
CHARLIE ADELSON: To you?
DONNA ADELSON: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's crazy.
DONNA ADELSON: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Did it have a -- do you know who sent it to you?
DONNA ADELSON: I have a pretty good idea. I havea pretty good idea, but, you know, we will talk -- we will talk later. Either -- I mean, I would like to -- I would like to try to get to see you today. I will definitely -- I just don't know if I am going to get back here in time for wendi, and I don't want to have (inaudible) somewhere else.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So whoever sent you the letter, sent you an anonymous letter?
DONNA ADELSON: No, it's not really anonymous.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Did they sign it?
DONNA ADELSON: It's hand-delivered, honey.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So someone showed up. was it, like, by a process server?
DONNA ADELSON: That's what I thought he was when it happened.
CHARLIE ADELSON: It wasn't?
CHARLIE ADELSON: where did they -- where did they come to you at?
DONNA ADELSON: when I walked out of the building and I make a right and I go past both driveways of the Icon --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right.
DONNA ADELSON: -- and I'm on the sidewalk, and I'm about 5 feet from pressing the button so that I could cross the street to pick up the boys this afternoon.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right.
DONNA ADELSON: And just as I got on the sidewalk -- okay, sweetie. So you stay -- you stay right here then, okay? You stay right here. I will look on the computer when Ben finishes, okay?
So, yeah, it was amazing. Somebody knew exactly who I was. Called me by name.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And he came over and handed you -- was it a young guy? Old guy?
DONNA ADELSON: JI would say probably mid 30s. I wouldn't forget that face.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Really?
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, yeah. So, anyway, I can make the attempt to go up there. I'm just concerned about getting back here in time and having, you know, wendi say, Where were you? And I don't think it's a good idea for the boys to say, We went up to visit Uncle Charlie, you know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right.
DONNA ADELSON: (Inaudible) end of the day and I hated to do that unless I needed to come do checks or the office or something. (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Well, I mean, you have to get me the stuff for the insurance. I mean, that's crazy that someone handed you a letter like that, and I don't even know --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah. Maybe we better just keep it at, you know, tomorrow -- tomorrow about 12:15, 12:20,
(inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Is the person -- is the person, like, threatening you or anything?
DONNA ADELSON: You know, you never know how to interpret these things. So let's not worry, and let's meet tomorrow. I think that's better. I think let's meet tomorrow afternoon.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Let me ask you this. Do you want to take a picture of the letter and send me what someone sent you?
DONNA ADELSON: No, no, I really don't want to do that.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So it wasn't -- it wasn't the government or the military or somebody? It was just some random person?
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's fucking crazy.
DONNA ADELSON: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: How long was the letter?
DONNA ADELSON: Well, it was just a copy of an article. It's what was written on the letter that's -- it's what was written on the copy of that letter.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Is the person threatening you?
DONNA ADELSON: You know, I don't think we should -- I don't think we should talk --
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. I mean, listen, it's the kind of thing if there is a threat, you go to the police.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But, anyway, let me --
DONNA ADELSON: This time I don't think that's a good idea.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, let me -- well, I mean, if people threaten you, you've got to go to the police. But let me -- let me talk -- let me see what it is. Let me see what nonsense it is first.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: It won't be the first time I've been threatened.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, I would like you to just -- I would like you to just see it and see what you think.
Do you need a tissue? Go get a tissue, honey. Right here. Right up here, honey.
So let's do that. Let's make it around, you know, 12:20, 12:30, because tomorrow, that would be ideal, okay?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. You've got it.
DONNA ADELSON: That would be good. when you come down, you'll play with the boys a little bit, okay?
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Yeah. No. I'll come down and I'll see you. I'll play with the boys.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah. Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. If it is -- if it is something serious, you know, I'm going to recommend going to the police, so --
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, no, I know. That's what I'm tempted to do.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So all right. Sounds good.
DONNA ADELSON: We will talk tomorrow, okay?
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. You got it. Love you.
DONNA ADELSON: Love you, bye.
(Audio recording concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does Ms. Adelson mention Dan Markel in this call?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she doesn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: There's mention of going to the police. If there was a threat, we're going to go to the police. Did anybody go to the police?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And, again, does Ms. Adelson in this call ever mention the name Katie or Katherine Magbanua?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she doesn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: who is the first person that -- oh, I'm sorry. we've got one more call between -- does the Defendant call Donna back one more time?
PATRICK SANFORD: He does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And is this the same date?
PATRICK SANFORD: It is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. what time does this third call happen?
PATRICK SANFORD: It happens about 3 o'clock, about 15 minutes after the last call.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Publish C, please?
JUDGE EVERETT: You may proceed.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of these proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
DONNA ADELSON: Hey, Charlie.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey. Sorry about that. Quick question for you -- oh, one thing I was going to tell you is, obviously, don't talk about things in the apartment or anyplace.
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, obviously.
CHARLIE ADELSON: The other thing is, Was the person black, white, Hispanic?
DONNA ADELSON: white.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And they just -- they just came up to you and they said your name, and they handed you a piece of paper?
DONNA ADELSON: No, no, didn't hand it right away. First spoke to me for a while, and then -- and then handed it to me.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Really?
DONNA ADELSON: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And were they wearing a hat and sunglasses or --
DONNA ADELSON: NO, nothing, nothing. I could describe him to a T.
CHARLIE ADELSON: what's that? You could --
DONNA ADELSON: Describe him to a T. No, no, nothing.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Was the person nervous or were they angry or --
DONNA ADELSON: No, calm as could be. Totally calm.
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's really crazy. Are they -- are they trying to ask for money or something?
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Is someone trying -- I mean, listen, if it is something like that, it sounds probably like you go to the police, but --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, I may -- I may have to. But, you know, I'd rather talk to you first and then --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't -- I wouldn't -- you know -- you know, there are scumbags out there all the time that try to do stuff like that.
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, I know. I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So --
DONNA ADELSON: That's why, you know, I just want you to see because I don't want -- you know, I don't want your father upset, so --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Don't -- can you -- don't say anything to dad until I take a look at it because dad flies off the handle --
DONNA ADELSON: Absolutely.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- on everything.
DONNA ADELSON: Absolutely. That's why I suggested after he goes to work tomorrow.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Did the person give you any kind of, like, time frame or anything?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. I'm going to be out there.
DONNA ADELSON: But it's clear -- it's clear what's wanted.
CHARLIE ADELSON: what did -- can I just ask you, what did they ask for?
DONNA ADELSON: You know, I don't know. This Tv is probably -- the TV is probably about five.
CHARLIE ADELSON: They asked you for $5,000?
DONNA ADELSON: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's fucking crazy.
DONNA ADELSON: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, I --
DONNA ADELSON: They mentioned, you know, like an ex-girlfriend.
Hi, Sandra, come on in. Good. How are you? Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's crazy. I don't know. Let me -- let me take a look at it.
DONNA ADELSON: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And then I'll -- and then I'll go from there.
DONNA ADELSON: Lincoln, your turn. Your turn. Lincoln is going first. Okay. Do that one.
Yeah, that would be great.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Let me take a look and then I'll --
DONNA ADELSON: I'm glad you called. If you wanted to go to dinner, we -- you know, we'll see where we'll go.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, I'll go down in the afternoon, and I'll take a look at whatever --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- (Cinaudible) to say.
DONNA ADELSON: Maybe we will go for a walk on the beach or something if it is going to be nice tomorrow.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Sounds good.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Sounds good.
DONNA ADELSON: All right. Love you too, honey. Bye-bye.
(Audio recording concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In this call, does the Defendant tell his mother, Obviously, don't talk about things in the apartment or anyplace?
PATRICK SANFORD: He does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what is the significance to your investigation of the reference to a Tv? This TV is probably about five.
PATRICK SANFORD: He had made statements -- I believe wendi Adelson made the statement that he had offered to have a hit man hired early on, but he thought it would be cheaper to have a TV -- to buy her a TV as a divorce present.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And what about the use of the word "five"? This TV is probably about five.
PATRICK SANFORD: The $5,000 is what was written on the paper that the undercover had provided.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. In this call, was an ex-girlfriend mentioned or the term ex-girlfriend?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, the term ex-girlfriend.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. was it ever said up to this point whose ex-girlfriend?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The name Katie or Katherine Magbanua at all?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And does the Defendant in this case -- has the evidence revealed he has a lot of ex-girlfriends?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: who is the next person that he calls after these -- we've got three calls with his mother?
PATRICK SANFORD: Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Publish D, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of these proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey. What's going on?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: What's up?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Is there someplace you can talk to me?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: What?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Are you anyplace that you can talk to me?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You can talk to me now.
CHARLIE ADELSON: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Just talk right now. we can talk.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Can you go somewhere that it's not loud while I'm talking to you?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I can't. It's, like, loud, but, like, I can't get out.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. I'm trying to walk outside to talk to you. Now, I can't even fucking get outside. All right. All right. Somebody -- hang on, okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Huh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Can you hear me okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I can hear.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. I just want -- I just want you to listen to me, and I will be able to talk to you in person when I see you tomorrow.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Because I don't know what's going on.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But my mom walked the kids -- evidently -- I only heard part of the story, and I'm going to go down there and talk to her tomorrow to find out what's going on.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: She didn't want to elaborate --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: — Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- but she said that someone approached her on the street --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: — Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- called her by name --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- handed her an envelope with something in it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And somebody was -- she really wouldn't go into detail. And, listen, I don't -- I have no idea what this is in reference to.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But something regarding her son, something regarding his ex-girlfriend, and the person asking my mom for some money.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: What?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. So I said -- you know, I'm like -- first, when she was saying it, I thought it was, like, something involving the IRS or a patient suing (inaudible) --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- or something like that. So I don't even know what the fuck it's about at all.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So somebody just, like, bumped into your mom like that?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Well, they came up to her on the street after she dropped the kids off at school.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: — Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I guess she brought them to school. I don't even know. But they must know her routine and must know who she is because --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- they walked up to her and they called her by name.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: They handed her an envelope.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And she said they spoke to her for a few minutes.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: And then she said there was -- you know, they were making reference to my ex-girlfriend, which I have no fucking clue what that's about.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And then they explained that they needed to be paid some money.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: For what?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I don't -- I don't even know. My mom didn't even want to talk to me on the phone.
(Inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But, like, did she see the person? was she, like -- she should call or something.
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's what I said. I said if someone is going to try to blackmail you or something --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly. (Inaudible) like that.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- or Cinaudible). I said, You've got to go straight to the police. So she's like, I don't even know what this is about. I don't -- I don't want to talk about it.
I go, well, take a picture and send me what it is.
She's like, I just want you to see it in person. So I'm going to go down -- I can't even fucking go there today because I won't get out of work until 10:00 o'clock at night.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So she's like, Just come down (inaudible) --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Is somebody, like, stalking your mom?
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI don't even fucking know. I don't know what's going on, what my mom is (inaudible) -- you didn't do anything with my mom. I mean, you guys --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Just checking. Just checking. I don't know Cinaudible). who knows?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, but I feel scared for your mom. Like, what the hell?
CHARLIE ADELSON: You know, I don't Cinaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Just a random person, like, just going up to your mom. Like, hello?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, and my mom said, It involves your ex-girlfriend. So I don't even -- I don't even think she said who. I'm just like -- you're my last girlfriend; so that's why I'm calling you.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: What do -- what do they want from her?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I have no idea. So, anyway, I'm going to find out -- well, they wanted money.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know, exactly. Did she tell you, like, what Cinaudible) --
CHARLIE ADELSON: No, no, she was just kind of, like, a little bit rattled and with the kids. And I was like, Listen, just -- I Cinaudible) have the day off tomorrow.
So she was like, Come down and talk to me. So I'm going down tomorrow to talk to her. And then -- I don't remember if she said it had anything to do with you. If -- if they are mentioning you or any reference to you, I'll keep you posted.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: why (inaudible)?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I don't know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You have, like, a thousand ex-girlfriends.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, fuck, it could be anyone. So I just assumed that --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But, anyway, it doesn't matter. So I may want to see you tomorrow if it does have anything to do with you. If it doesn't, then I feel like a fucking idiot for even bothering -- wasting your time.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: JI mean, I feel bad for your mom. Like, who the hell? (Inaudible) would be like, why are you threatening me?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know. I said -- I said, Mom, was the guy wearing a hat? Glasses? And mom was like, No, I could pick the person out of a lineup in a second. They came over to me. They spoke to me very politely. They had -- it was a white male in his 30s, no hat, no glasses. Just a white male in his 30s came up to her, knew who she was, and addressed her. So -- but, anyway, it's neither here nor there. I will feel like an idiot if it was some other ex, but anyway --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, did you have any fight with any of your other Cinaudible)?
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI don't know. I mean, maybe I should just be calling everybody today.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, you should try to find out.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I thought when I spoke to my mom, she had said it involved -- they mentioned your name in it. That's why I was calling you. But I'm going to feel like an idiot if they didn't. So -- but, anyway, are you working tomorrow? Or what's your story?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, but you can always stop by over there. It doesn't matter.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. What time do you finish work?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Thank you. All right. Let me know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: what time do you finish work tomorrow?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, it doesn't matter. well, like, I told them, like, I'm usually between, like, 9:30 to -- do you want me to get up? Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: what -- what --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Anytime between 9:30 to, like, 3:00ish, 4:00ish. It depends.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible). Like, today I was, like, super, like, crazy.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. I've got to get back in there. I'm going to be in Miami. And when I'm done hanging out down there, I'm going to come --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, yeah, I'm, like, right there, so --
CHARLIE ADELSON: So figure somewhere around 4:00ish, I'll see you.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. No worries, kiddo.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: A111 right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Have a good day. I'll talk to you later.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You too. Bye.
(Audio recording concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In this call, we hear Charlie Adelson say that the undercover mentioned something about her son, meaning that the undercover mentioned something about him. Did the undercover mention anything about Charlie Adelson?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Anything about Charlie Adelson's ex-girlfriend?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not in those words, no.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: But he did say the name Katie --
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- Katie and Tuto, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: But didn't specify your son, your son's ex-girlfriend, anything like that?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In this call we hear the Defendant stating that Katherine Magbanua was his last ex-girlfriend, and that's why he's calling her. Is it true based on the evidence that was collected in this case that Katherine Magbanua was, in fact, his last ex-girlfriend?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So he had other girlfriends in between Katherine Magbanua and the bump?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Including who?
PATRICK SANFORD: whitney Kiik.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Did he call whitney Kiik at all on the wire?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did he ever call any other ex-girlfriends other than Katherine Magbanua about this matter?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not about this matter, no.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. I want to go to the next day, April 20th, 2016. Do we have a meeting that occurs that day?
PATRICK SANFORD: we do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And Charlie and Donna have discussed, we're going to meet in person. we don't want to talk on the phone. Did that meeting take place on April 20th?
PATRICK SANFORD: It did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: where did that meeting take place?
PATRICK SANFORD: It started inside their building, but they walked out the back of the building of the Icon where Ms. Adelson lives. They walked out the back of it and then walked down the sidewalk, which is a marina right on the water of South Beach. There is a marina right behind their building. They walked down that sidewalk along the water, and there was a restaurant just down from their condo. And they stopped behind that restaurant at a little table and sat at the table right by the water.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is that restaurant Monty's on South Beach?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what time of day did this meeting occur at Monty's?
PATRICK SANFORD: Approximately 1 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How long was the meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: About 30 minutes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: were you present for the meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And can you describe sort of their demeanor or what they were doing at the meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: They walked very closely to each other, went and sat kind of next to each other. There's a little round concrete table. They sat next to each other, and they were kind of leaning in intently talking to each other, very low voices.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Were there any attempts made to record what was being said at that meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we did try to record it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. What were the results of those attempts?
PATRICK SANFORD: We were not able to get close enough to them. They were isolated across the sidewalk next to the water. we weren't able to get close enough to them to be able to capture any audible conversations.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How close did agents get? Did they have bags similar to the ones that were previously described, like recording devices in bags?
PATRICK SANFORD: There were recording devices in bags, yes, and we were able to get -- I think the closest we were able to get is maybe 20 feet from them.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was the recording from that -- was the expert that we heard from earlier, McElveen, able to get any audible words out of that recording?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not from those recordings, no.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. was there a photograph taken of this meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I took a photograph.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Judge, at this time, I would ask to introduce State's 54.
JUDGE EVERETT: Any objection?
MR. RASHBAUM: No objection.
JUDGE EVERETT: State's 54 is admitted.
(State's Exhibit 54 received in evidence.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Permission to publish?
JUDGE EVERETT: You may.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And once this meeting concluded, what is the next phone call that occurs on the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: Charlie Adelson calls Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And so what time did that call occur?
PATRICK SANFORD: Can I refer to the chart?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You may.
PATRICK SANFORD: It occurs at 3:14 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And in this call, are they just giving directions to each other to meet up?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And is that the Dolce meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: It is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. What is Dolce?
PATRICK SANFORD: Dolce was a pizza, sandwich shop. It was next to her business where she worked. It was in a shopping center. They met first in a car, and then they walked into Dolce and sat inside of the restaurant and talked.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And we've heard about the efforts to record the meeting as well as the clarification.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was the clarification that McElveen did put onto the "more better" video that came from the other recording device in the restaurant?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And have we also got for demonstrative purposes the transcript that will play along with this recording and audio?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Judge, at this time, I would ask to move into evidence that composite Exhibit 111.
JUDGE EVERETT: Any objection to 111?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And I do have two separate exhibits, Your Honor. I have 111 with a star, which is our demonstrative. we can call that 111A, or Demonstrative D, whatever is Your Honor's preference.
JUDGE EVERETT: Just make sure it's marked as demonstrative.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir. And then we've got 111, which does not have the transcript included.
JUDGE EVERETT: All right. Mr. Rashbaum?
MR. RASHBAUM: No objection other than our prior objections.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well. 111 will be admitted at this time.
(State's Exhibit 111 received in evidence.)
JUDGE EVERETT: I will also give the instructions, if the State and Defense desire, concerning these recordings as well.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir. This is about a 40- to 45-minute recording. So for your planning purposes, we can do that and then break for the day, or we can -- whatever Your Honor wants.
JUDGE EVERETT: We will break for the day then after it's published.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
JUDGE EVERETT: Members of the jury, you are about to view a video recording. I'm going to instruct you that the subjects shown were speaking before the recording starts and certain portions of the recording are inaudible. Like other recordings, you may determine this recording's context, or lack thereof, based on what you are able to hear.
I'm going to give you a second instruction now concerning this same recording.
You are about to hear recorded conversations. These recorded conversations are proper evidence, and you may consider them just as any other evidence. You are also being furnished transcripts of the recorded conversations. The recordings are the evidence, and the transcripts are provided to you only as a guide to help you follow as you listen to the recording.
The transcripts are not evidence of what was actually said or who said it. If you notice any difference between what you hear on the recordings and what you read in the transcripts, you must rely on what you hear and not what you read.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you, Your Honor. Permission to publish?
JUDGE EVERETT: You may.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Oh, and, Judge, for this -- this is the recording that's more difficult to hear. So I would ask that all jurors use the headphones for this particular publication.
JUDGE EVERETT: Members of the jury, if you would all put on your headphones at this time if you have not been using them already.
(Video recording briefly published in open court.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If anyone needs to adjust the volume, we will restart it a couple of times to make sure everybody has got it correct.
(video recording briefly published in open court.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Now that we've got everybody's volume adjusted, we are going to start one more time. Go ahead, please.
(Video recording published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of these proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Video begins:)
CHARLIE ADELSON: If they had any evidence, they would've already knocked on your door. The problem is, even if they bug this, even if they bug your home phone, nobody's going to Cinaudible). But even if they
(inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: But even if they bug your phone, (inaudible). Even if they bug your phone, you're still not talking about anything. So my point is, how do you get people to talk? You throw a smoke grenade, and then you get all the cockroaches to run out, ah, ah, there's smoke in the house, there's smoke in the house. And everyone's running and everyone's talking. And you throw a smoke grenade, what do you think? Listen, if that's what it was, it's very smart, because that -- that means -- my mom hasn't told my dad anything, by the way. My mom -- my dad's going to flip out when he finds out. But my mom hasn't told my dad anything.
But normally, obviously, if that was a cop that came and spoke to my mom (inaudible). That that night, when he comes home from work, she would say, well, guess who I (inaudible) guess who gave me a little visit when I'm taking the grandkids to school? And then --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- after she dropped them off -- she was walking home, and she dropped them off and was walking back by herself. So this person had to be -- because the thing is, a lot of times my mom takes them home, drives them to school, the kids. This person knew her routine, knows who she is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. Someone may have come up to the office. My dad works Monday/wednesday , Tuesday/wednesday. Like, you know, it's probably either, get him on the beach or get him at the office up there. They may have approached my mom because my dad may be someone who's carrying a gun. You never know if someone's -- you know, you don't want to start a fucking shootout, you know?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) if you want me to
(inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I mean, I can say -- well, I carry on me. I mean, if someone comes up to me --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Do you carry it on you right now? I mean, I'm going to start carrying one on my back. Like, you know the holster that fits in your back? If someone comes up to me, they better be ready to shoot because I'm going to be shooting. If someone comes up to me asking for money right now --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, and when the -- guess what, when the fucking police show up and there's a doctor, there's an oral surgeon standing there with a dead gang member in his fucking driveway, they're not going to come down too hard on me. And I'm not going to talk anyway. I don't -- I don't -- no one's going to threaten me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I could -- Katie, this is -- this is not like some -- some chick showing off tattoos to your man. Like, this is fucking -- this is happening, Katie, I'm serious. Because these people are going to come back. They -- they didn't go through the trouble of seeking my mom out to hand her that and then go away.
So, I got two options: They're not going away. we may wish they'd go away and never come back, but they ain't going away. The trouble they went through --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: They want their Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: well --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: with a beard or with a badge?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Ejither/or.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, I don't -- look, if a badge comes up to you, tell them, have a nice day, Officer. Listen, if they want to charge me with something, charge me. If not, I don't talk to cops. Sorry.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You know, prove it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: No. It's -- it's very simple, like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- if you're going to charge me, charge me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) charge me.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, but things are changing a lot with all -- you know what's changed a lot? There's cameras everywhere. So cops now, they have a fucking pension. when they retire, they're going to get a pension for the next 30 years. Medical, dental, and salary every month. If they think that, you know, the cameras -- look, how many cameras are here? Five? You know? I mean, they better be doing it in a place where there's not a chance that someone doesn't have a camera pointing outside (inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: What -- what I'm saying is, is that this person is not going away and they came very equipped with details. Where did the details come from? I don't know. These details, I don't --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Well, because it's one of two things. You go to the cops and you give them information. Okay. I'm going to tell them that my brother is who did it. I'll go right now and tell them. They're going to say, can you prove it? Then I'm going to say, no. Do you know what kind of gun was used? I'm going to say, no. Did you see your brother do it? No. How do you know it was him? He told me. Okay. He told you. That's called secondhand knowledge. It's not even admissible. Okay. He told me. what did he tell you? He said, I did it. Even if I went in and said, my brother said he did it, you've got to prove it. You've got to put the person at the scene. You got to understand, in order to prove it, you have to put that person at the scene at the time. Not in the car. Because the fact is, is like, even if -- let's say you just have my car, right? And then I go ahead and I commit a crime. And then I go -- and you're getting into the car and I go, yeah, Katie was in my car and she got out and she did this horrible crime. Okay. Then they come and they get the DNA in the car. They go, yep, Katie was in the car. No. Katie sat in the car for two minutes, got in the AC and then got out of the car. Katie had nothing to do with me robbing the Burger King (inaudible). So, even if I can prove that, yeah, Katie was with me, can you put Katie at the Burger King? I can put Katie -- say that she sat in the car, yeah.
what you need to do is -- they get that little bit of evidence from you having been in the car, and then when they bring you in for the interrogation, they're like, we know you were in that fucking car, you know, on such-a-such a day that you were in that car. So even if your DNA, your fingerprints, your fucking hair is all over that fucking car, that proves, yeah, congratulations, you were in the car. It's not a crime to sit in acar. Okay. Do you know what I mean? My mom could have sat in the car too. It's not a crime. They have to prove it. They have to put you in the scene at the date.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Tu-- they said the guy's name was Tuo. I don't even know who the fuck it is. They said it was Tuo. Tuto's incarcerated now and I know that you've been helping out Katie, and your family's been helping out Katie and her family. Now Tuto's family needs your help. My mom was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And he goes, well, maybe this will refresh your memory. And he handed it to her --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: And she said Cinaudible). He's well-spoken, like he's polite. She's goes, he's polite and well-spoken. I said, did he have like -- did he act thug or did he talk with like a thick Spanish accent or anything? And she said, no. TI said, was he white or Hispanic? She said he was white, but he could have been Hispanic. But, no --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, just his face. I mean, everyone in Miami is Hispanic, so it's like -- you can't -- you can't tell. I talk to you on the phone, it's like talking to some, like, you know, Maria, Maria from west Side Story. But, look, it could have been -- right. So he wasn't -- you know, wasn't Cinaudible) skin. He wasn't -- he had the fucking Cinaudible) pulled down. He was very recognizable.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, so (inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: with no glasses. I said, what about -- like no glasses, no hat, you know, well -- she said well dressed.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: He was well dressed?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, it wasn't like you would have looked at him and be like, oh, he's a thug. No. She said he was wearing like a shirt and had kind of like a little vest and kind of like a little jacket over it. She said he was broad. My mom's like, he was big. My mom's walking this way. My mom goes to the right, he goes like this, standing in front of her. My mom's like, oh, sorry, sir. Like this. And she goes -- my mom's like, sorry. He's like, Mrs. Adelson? She's like, yes? He goes, I need to talk with you. Okay. So my mom thought it was like a process server.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay? She said it was --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Katie, for $19, if I entered your mom's name and address in a fucking computer, it costs $19 to find out where they had probably rented an apartment under their name. So it's probably in the registry or whatever. So it's like, you know when you're online and it's like $19 or $29.99, find anyone when you want? That's all you do. And it shows where they're registered at and then you locate them. And you go online, you pull up a picture, and you sit outside and wait. And you know what their kids look like, because that's -- they're online too.
So --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: SO --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Katie, they'll be back. And then all of a sudden, these people go -- like, whoever it is, knows information.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible). And there's not a lot of people that Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: They didn't mention my name. It makes me think -- makes me think they don't -- these people only know part of a story, or they think they know part of a story.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Do you think that Cinaudible). No. Let me ask a question. when everybody was there the next day Cinaudible) didn't take any money? It's not like you're driving around in a Bentley, cruising around in a mega-yacht. You know? Some of these people (inaudible) at some point, because otherwise we have no idea who's saying Cinaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) describing it, that means (inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, you could know some things but not any -- any -- the problem is this, that -- okay. So go tell the cops. They're going to ask you, where's the weapon at? And you're going to say, I don't know. Do you know who pulled the trigger? You can say a name. Okay. How can you -- were you with -- did you witness it? You're going to say, no. So you didn't witness it. You only heard a rumor on the street that this person did something. You know what that's worth? Zero. And then what you do is, you wear a wire, get this person talking, and if you can get the person to confess on wire, then you have something in your cart. You have a confession. You have an admission of guilt.
Outside of that, there's no evidence. Okay? Did -- you know, if you have a car and you can link this person to renting that car that was used at the scene of the crime, okay, but, you know, you have to prove that they were also driving that day too and they never rented it and lent it to a friend. what if you rented a car today, I go, Katie, can I just -- can I borrow it for the weekend and I'll bring it back on Tuesday? You go, yeah, sure. So you rented a car. You've been in that car. I drive it to fucking Orlando. I rob the McDonald's in Orlando. I come back and I go, here's the keys, Katie. And you go, okay, thanks. Yeah, you rented it, but -- but what if you were fucking out all weekend and didn't even know I took your car and I did something and I brought it back?
Okay. My point is, I don't have any knowledge of what went on. Evidently this person's either pretending to or does. TI don't want someone paying visits to my parents.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: It could. It could. TI wish it was a cop playing games. why didn't they know it was me? If it was a cop playing games or an investigator playing games, they didn't mention me. They did mention her son's girlfriend, Katie. Did not mention me at all. Mentioned -- said, my family. Okay? I think if they thought I had something to do with it, they would find me and they'd talk to me. You know what I'm saying? Like, go talk to the person who's involved, not talk to people who aren't involved. And I'm not involved.
But even if they knew -- if they knew -- but if they knew our -- your -- your relationship is with me, not my family. Like, I dated you, not my mom (inaudible). This person obviously doesn't even know that we dated. That's a direct connection is, who was her boyfriend. The 71-year old guy, Dr. Adelson, or the 37-year old guy? (Inaudible). That's who you talk to. Don't waste your time with momma. They needed to talk Cinaudible). wouldn't that make sense that the only connection to my family is me actually? Your connection to my family is not my mom. Like, yeah, you work for the office now because the checks Cinaudible). And that's just because you come in and work on the weekends, which I trust that you're doing because I'm never there. when I see you, you tell me you do it and the place looks clean, so you get your checks. You clean up, whatever.
But that's neither here nor there. This person knows information. And even if they are cops Cinaudible) that information Cinaudible). (Inaudible) said your name. And they also know that -- they're claiming that somebody, you know, had something to do with it is incarcerated. I don't know anybody who's incarcerated.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: My point is, I don't want this coming back. I don't have a problem helping the community out. I don't want the community to come back next month. And what I think happens if we pay the money, they're going to be back again and again and again and say that they want money. (Inaudible) not a cop. very aggressive if it is a cop. If it's a cop, I'm happy because I got nothing to hide. Okay? If it's nota cop --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) simple.
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible). And you've got to understand something, Cinaudible). Katie, there's no evidence. And they sit down and they tell the police what happened. First they're going to ask my parents to take a lie detector test, which they won't do, just for the simple reason that those things give false positives all the time, which, unfortunately, makes you look bad because it's like, okay, you know, we're just -- we just feel that way, that lie detector tests are not accurate. But 99 percent of people, they have nothing to hide, take a lie detector test. It makes you look bad if they're like, Katie, you want to take a lie detector test, and you shot JFK. And you're like, yeah, I'll fucking take your test and I'm going home afterwards. All right? Make it quick. Okay? Because you didn't shoot JFK, so --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right. And, you know, you're -- right. But let me explain something to you. If we go to the police, this is going to put the spotlight (inaudible). The FBI -- and we're talking a bigwig from the FBI. Not like the first-year rookie. You're going to have a 20-year vet with the FBI knocking at your door wanting to speak to you, and wanting to speak (inaudible). This is -- made fucking -- this made not only national news. This was on -- this was in London. My family in London was calling us. You know what BBC news is? British Broadcasting News? This was on the BBC news.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. That doesn't matter. This made the BBC news. This was on Good Morning America. This was on the New York Times. This was a big story. So, well, listen, you didn't do anything. I didn't do anything. Now prove it. Next question, prove it. And I don't -- I don't have time to talk with the news. You want to arrest me, fucking arrest me. I'm not going to sit here and show you photos of dick pictures I took of myself. Like, I mean, why can't you have my phone? Because I got a bunch of nude photos of myself on my phone. You're not looking at dick pictures of myself all day too. why don't you come back with a warrant and you can look at all the dick pictures you want of me. I'm serious, I don't want them laughing at my pee-pee.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: The point is, okay, I don't like cops, and you're not getting my dick pics of myself, so have a nice day. That's my answer. Okay? If you think I did something, arrest me and charge me and that's it. Okay? That's it. Now, I don't want these people coming back -- if they are cops, I'm happy, because I've got nothing to hide. If they're a bad guy, there's two ways of dealing with this situation. One is, go ahead and contact Miami Beach Police Department.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay? They'll contact this guy, they'll talk to him on the phone, and they'll arrange for things to be set up.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And when it's set up, it's going to be like the fucking SWAT team and fucking FBI. They're going to fucking take this guy down, and then they will offer him ten years because we just have you on tape extorting somebody, and now tell us everything you know or you're going to serve ten years in prison. Is it worth it?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Next thing you know, this person is a snitch, and people -- other people start singing. AS soon as they have him, he starts calling your name out. Well, my parents know, they're going to have to say, yeah, the guy came, they said that -- they're going to ask us the story of what happened. There's going to be police, okay, at your door, at my door. It's going to be --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: My name (inaudible) --
CHARLIE ADELSON: They're going to want to come after them. They're going to check out anybody who got bailed out of jail. (Inaudible) bailed out of jail. And then they're going to be -- it's not going to be cops. It's going to be big boys flying in to see what they can come up with. Okay? And then that's probably going to make the newspaper. I want to give them the money, but I don't want it to evolve into next Tuesday he's asking for
(inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: So this was my idea. I give you money. You contact (inaudible). Listen. Listen to what I'm -- listen to why I'm saying it. This is why I'm saying it. I give you money, you talk to him on the phone, she is (inaudible) say -- I'm just -- because my head is fucking spinning. So you now know that -- I know whoever this guy is. I don't know who he is. And these people are going to -- say, my friend -- say, I got -- you can call the guy up and say, I got a call from so-and-so. I gota call from somebody saying you reached out to them. That's all I want you to say. I got a call from so-and-so that you reached out. These people had --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: This is what I want you to do. I want you to call up this person and say that I got a call from some friends of mine who say that you reached out to them and that you mentioned my name. And remember, remember, your job is to protect (inaudible). Okay? So, what you're going to say is, I got a call from some friends of mine who said that you reached out and that you had mentioned my name. These people want to go to the police because they had nothing to do with what you're talking about. Okay? And, frankly, I don't know what you're talking about, but the name sounds familiar of who's incarcerated. So, I probably can give you something as charity to help the less fortunate. But do not contact these people again or they're going to the police.
And let him know you had to do everything in the world to prevent these people from going to the police. Because they don't know anything. I don't know anything. And that you -- the name sounds a little familiar, and that I'm going to help you out with some charity, and don't ever contact me, my friends, or my family again. we will go to the police.
That way he gets the money. He also knows that you know everything. That you may have a friend who may not be so cool with what's going on too. He may know people that knows how to handle people like this. And that this is a fucking one-time thing, and this is charity to help somebody out, less fortunate -- you believe in Karma -- and that's the only reason it's being done. If it happens again, they're going to bring it to the police.
And then the whole time you're talking, you just say, I don't know at all what's going on. I was just called. I'm very shaken over this. (Inaudible), and I told them that we're going to try to help these people. But that's it. You don't use anything other than the words "help" and "charity." And that you're going to ask that you leave these people alone or they are going to the police.
That's all I was able to come up with. Because if they're police, they can't take the money. They can't take the money. They won't even come meet you. They fucked up. If it's this guy, maybe in the back of his -- he knows and he can fuck off times a million. And then now he's fucking with his wife and he's fucking with him, and you fuck with Cinaudible) himself, you better kill him because you're going to be in big trouble. And he knows who people are, and if he can't do it, he'll have someone else do it.
And so help me God, if they fuck with my family, it's going to be like fucking Nazi shit, because it will be dealt with. Do you know what I'm saying? I mean, Katie, I don't care what I spend. Okay? I swear to God, if -- Katie -- Katie --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: This person doesn't know
(inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Now Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: This person knows -- they feel like they know a little bit. Maybe, maybe not. I think they either --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible). What? No.
(Inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) information (inaudible) as a deterrent.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right. So he knows I have you on salary. (Inaudible). You think he'd be happy to know that Cinaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) because they know that I need it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: He doesn't have any bad feelings towards me, does he? Our paths never crossed. I didn't know the two of you when you were together. It's not like I'm --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: He's not like that.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You know, where it's like, yeah, I fucking was around when you guys were together, and I hopped in when he walked out. Like, that's a different story.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's disrespectful.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: There's no --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I (inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible). If anything
(inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I mean, he (inaudible) and that's without even saying -- I don't even Cinaudible). You know what I'm saying? Like you know it. I don't even have to -- I don't have to sit here and tell you what I would do. I could show you what I'd do. You know what I'm saying? Like I am -- you know who I am. Right? I -- I look for things to do. You don't ask me for shit. I'm the one that's like, hey, Noah's birthday's coming up, I got you. You know? I'm the one who's like, anything I can -- you know, you don't ask. I'm the one who's like, hey, I'1l1 sell you the Lexus for a very good price. I know you're having car problems. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm the one who -- I don't have -- I don't have to tell you. I show you.
So what do you think? (Inaudible) my mom (inaudible). He needs to know that it's going to go down one of the two ways, like, you're either fucking with me or you're fucking with the police. Pick which one. And -- yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: He threatened. He said -- he said -- he said Tuto is incarcerated and I know that your family -- and he helped your family out, and I know you've been helping Katie out. Your family's been helping --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Your family has been helping Katie out, and his family needs some help now. My mom was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And he says, well, maybe this will help explain it to you. Call me. And he handed it to her. He did not go through that trouble of finding her and putting that thing together and handing it to her without -- and then just going to go away? He ain't going away.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I said (inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, if it’s -- listen, if it's the cops --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: well --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: The problem is, you get into -- like if my mom meets him, right, okay, I'll meet you tomorrow in front of a huge building and he just drives up and she hands him the 5G, what the fuck do you think's going to happen next month? It's going to be, oh, we need your help again. You know what I mean? And the thing is, if my parents really were guilty, they may think they have a big fish on the line to pay them monthly. All they have to do is scare this little old lady. who's she going to go to? Is she going to go to the cops? She's guilty as hell. You have to let them know that these people are not afraid of going to the cops? They've got nothing to hide. Okay?
So, you're the one they reached out to and they said -- and you need to say, they reached out to me because you mentioned my name.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: why would you ever think (inaudible). why would somebody (inaudible). That would have been more like personal.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'm more afraid now of the long-term, like, knock at the door again and again and again and again. This is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: why not? Because I don't think they want to mess with me. It's -- he's got a lot of connections. He is like so far removed that --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Like he is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: He doesn't have -- because he doesn't have anybody that he can call up unless he still has people. You -- listen, you giving somebody some money is not an admission of any kind of guilt. It's like, listen, if you gave me money now (inaudible) this is the one and only time Cinaudible). I don't know what this is about. This is (inaudible) telling you -- you know how you just say things about Cinaudible), but like just the way he said it, like, he said, he needs your help. He was there for you. And his family needs your help now.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, like he just -- he didn't want -- he didn't want to scare her. He didn't scare her. But this is the part that you don't understand, my mom had diarrhea all night. She hasn't been eating and she's been up since 2:00 in the morning with diarrhea.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Of course Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Like, how do you think I feel, my mom is 65-years-old, been up since 2 in the morning with fucking diarrhea.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: You what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI don't know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know. I have it Cinaudible). when I was leaving the house, I literally had the bag out and I had it in my Cinaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI -- I know. well, if you want, you guys can swing by my house later.
So, what do we do?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I don't know. (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I want you to make a pact right now (inaudible) and I'm going to give you cash. I don't want you to talk to (inaudible). Good?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Well -- what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible). what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Unless it's a real number. I mean, the guy didn't have glasses or a hat. TI thought he was someone else (inaudible). Yeah, which shocked me too, that he's going to Cinaudible). well -- so they could see (inaudible). But let me just put it this way: These kind of things, when you blackmail somebody, you're putting yourself out there --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- so that's the only reason. Because if you're blackmailing someone, someone's got a couple options: Either take care of you, or -- hey, and if you're blackmailing somebody who's had no problem possibly doing that, hey -- look, blackmail somebody who's banging their secretary. Okay? Not -- blackmail somebody over fucking, like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: My office -- my office in the morning, and then I'm in westin in the afternoon. I know, I'm going in to do a special Cinaudible).
But it's like, if you're going to -- like, if you're going to blackmail someone, blackmail someone that's cheating on their wife. Don't Cinaudible) -- because the thing is, these are the big boys. Like, if this is what it actually revolves -- this is what I'm saying. If this is what it's actually revolving around, okay, it's actually revolving around this horrible Cinaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, but this is what I'm saying. If you're blackmailing somebody who potentially has the ability to get something like this done, you've got a fucking set of balls, because they may make you shut up real quick. which makes me think, without a doubt, he's not the only -- he didn't come there alone. He came there with somebody else. You know what I'm saying?
And then this is the next thing. You ready? what about -- so what if his homeboys offed somebody? All he does is, walks up and he goes, Ms. Adelson, so-and-so's family needs help. Meanwhile, this dude's family ain't getting shit. we just get a bunch of scumbags knocking on my door going, somebody needs help. well, guess what? I don't have anything to do with what happened down there. You don't. I don't know anyone who does. I don't know who Tuto is they're talking about. Okay? Like, I don't know these people.
So, my point is, the problem is, once you pay, you're going to get every fucking Tom, Dick, and Harry showing up, going, hey, somebody needs help. Go to the fucking police. I don't care. Go to the police. Tell them what you know. I'll tell them what I know. Nothing. Because I don't.
(Inaudible) happy when the FBI's knocking on your door at five in the morning. And you know where this is coming from? Inside. I don't know anybody that's got that bad (inaudible) -- just the Cinaudible). Yeah.
(Video recording concluded.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Does the State have any further examination for the witness before we rest for the evening?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm comfortable resting for the evening at this point, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well. Members of the jury, I'm going to give you the same instruction that I give you every day, but it is important as we progress in this trial. Please do not discuss the case with each other or anyone else. Do not watch any news reports or seek out any information concerning the trial. We will start tomorrow, once again, at the normal time at 8:45. Please report by 8:30. Have a good evening.
BAILIFF: Question, Your Honor. These?
JUDGE EVERETT: We will collect these the same way we would with the notepads, but the jurors will have access to them once again.
BAILIFF: Leave them in your chairs, guys.
(Jury exits the courtroom.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated.
Agent Sanford, you will need to report tomorrow at 8:30 as well for the continuation of your testimony.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: Do the parties have anything that they wish to raise with the Court before we go into recess?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, Your Honor.
MR. RASHBAUM: One moment. Thank you. No, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: Always a squeaky wheel. I'm teasing you, Mr. Rashbaum.
we're in recess for the evening. we will get started again at 8:30 tomorrow. Have a good evening, everyone.
(Court is in recess at 4:45 p.m., and the proceedings continue in Volume 5.)