1.Jeffrey Lacasse — Direct/Cross
587 linesPROCEEDINGS
BAILIFF: All rise. Circuit is now in session. The Honorable Stephen Everett presiding.
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated. All right. Before we get started this morning, I just wanted to give some brief instruction to the gallery, as I have on previous days. Once again, please keep your phones off or keep them on silent as the trial is taking place.
Do not shake your heads or make any gesturing as the witnesses are testifying, whether you agree or disagree with any of the testimony.
If any of the testimony is going to be distressing or upsetting for you, please remove yourself from the courtroom. Also, if you step outside while a witness is testifying, you are to remain outside until there has been a change in witnesses.
One other matter has been brought to my attention, as well. If you are in any common areas with the jurors on this case, please do not discuss any matters that are pertaining to the case around the jurors. As they are not to discuss the case with each other or anyone else, they cannot be affected by any conversations that are happening by the observers. If you see the jurors, please do not engage them. Do not talk to them. Do not discuss matters that pertain to the case around them. Does anyone have any questions concerning this? Please raise your hands.
very well. with there being no questions, do the parties have any matters that you need to raise for this morning?
MS. FULFORD: Yes, Judge. Could we go sidebar, please.
JUDGE EVERETT: Please approach.
(sidebar discussion held as follows):
JUDGE EVERETT: Go ahead.
MS. FULFORD: In the interest of full disclosure, I received, after court yesterday, a text message on my phone from someone -- and I don't know who it is -- but I thought I should disclose this information to the Court. And I've shown it to Ms. Cappleman.
The gist of the text messages that whoever Juror No. 14 is was in the men's restroom while we were going through the jury selection process. Tim Jansen was there, and, apparently, Tim Jansen said on a podcast -- I forget what it's called. Surviving the Survivor. That this juror was speaking in the bathroom and your order had been that they weren't to speak to anybody. So if -- I have it if Your Honor wants to review it, or do you want me to read it into the record?
JUDGE EVERETT: I'll just review it.
MS. FULFORD: Okay.
(Brief pause.)
JUDGE EVERETT: All right. Number 14 was based on the original --
MS. FULFORD: I assume.
JUDGE EVERETT: -- charts provided by the clerk, correct?
MS. FULFORD: I assume that's what they were saying, because she doesn't think that the jury was seated yet and --
JUDGE EVERETT: If it was the second day of selection, there was no jury.
MS. FULFORD: Right. And our 14 is a female, so it couldn't be.
JUDGE EVERETT: Correct.
MS. FULFORD: Numbers.
JUDGE EVERETT: You can go back to your charts and look at who No. 14 was concerning that. If he's not -- he or she is not on the jury at this time, I'm not really sure what you want me to do about this.
MS. FULFORD: I'm not asking you to do anything. I just wanted to give full disclosure. And I don't have my jury selection stuff. It's at home in the garage. So...
JUDGE EVERETT: Ms. Cappleman, Ms. Dugan, do you have your original charts from the clerk?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In my office I do.
JUDGE EVERETT: I think, by the numbering system that was used from start to finish, there were no repeats. So whoever No. 14 was on the first chart would be the subject of this matter that's come through on the text. If -- again, if this person was not seated, then I'm not certain if there's really much more to do on this topic.
MS. FULFORD: TI agree.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The clerk could probably tell us who Juror 14 was. Yep.
JUDGE EVERETT: Back there with the jurors right now. Any other matters that we need to raise for today?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, Your Honor.
MS. FULFORD: I would like to inquire, Your Honor, based on the instruction you gave that if you're in the presence of the jury not to be discussing the case. Had someone disclosed that -- matters about the case have been discussed in front of them? And, if so, can you tell us what that was?
JUDGE EVERETT: I have no idea what's taken place or not. Mr. Zelman, I believe you told Deputy Phillips that someone had relayed this to you without any specific information.
MR. ZELMAN: It was just that there are jurors and members of the audience meeting in the same area as -- during breaks.
JUDGE EVERETT: Right.
MS. FULFORD: Thank you, Judge.
MR. ZELMAN: It was just to avoid the --
JUDGE EVERETT: Talking about when they're going to lurch or other times?
MR. ZELMAN: Yes. And I don't have any information that anything untoward happened. But to avoid that potentially happening. That was the purpose of it happening before the deputy told us.
JUDGE EVERETT: Beyond that, I'm not aware of anything taking place in the gallery or the jurors.
MR. ZELMAN: No.
JUDGE EVERETT: Ms. Cappleman, Ms. Dugan?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No.
MS. DUGAN: No, sir.
MS. FULFORD: Thank you, Judge.
JUDGE EVERETT: All right.
(Sidebar discussion concludes. )
JUDGE EVERETT: All right. If you can let me know once they're finished with the bathroom. we'll bring them out and get started.
BAILIFF: Okay.
(Pause. )
MR. ZELMAN: Judge, do we have a couple minutes?
JUDGE EVERETT: I believe the jurors might be ready but --
MR. ZELMAN: Okay.
JUDGE EVERETT: -- if you need to use the restroom, please go do it now.
MR. ZELMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
(Pause. )
JUDGE EVERETT: The parties can approach again briefly for a moment.
(sidebar discussion held as follows):
JUDGE EVERETT: Juror 14 on the original list that came up was a Brittany Zimmerman, a female. Our Juror 14 is Chantal Tolbert, also a female. whoever -- you have no idea who sent you those texts?
MS. FULFORD: No, Judge. All my reply said was, could you tell me who this is, please? And they didn't reply back.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well. I don't believe the information that has been sent anonymously can be verified in any way. Nor does it correspond with the information that we presently have on the jurors, as there would not have been a conversation between, I assume, Mr. Jansen, in the women's bathroom with a Brittany Zimmerman or a Shantall Tolbert. Does either party wish to be heard further?
MS. DUGAN: No, thank you.
MS. FULFORD: No, Judge. Thank you.
(Sidebar discussion concludes. )
JUDGE EVERETT: All right. You can bring them in.
(Jury enters.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated. Good morning, members of the jury. We are going to resume with the State's case, once again, this morning. Everyone does have their notepads and pens in their seats.
All right. And, for the record, the jurors have responded in the affirmative.
Ms. Cappleman, you may call your next witness.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: State calls Jeff Lacasse.
(witness enters.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Please raise your right hand, sir.
whereupon, JEFFREY LACASSE was called as a witness, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
JUDGE EVERETT: You may take your seat.
You may inquire when you're ready, State.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sir, please introduce yourself and spell your name.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm Jeffrey Lacasse -- pardon me. J-E-F-F-R-E-Y, L-A-C-A-S-S-E.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How are you employed?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm an associate professor at Florida State University.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How long have you been at FSU?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Since 2013. So 11 years now -- twelve years now.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Have you always lived here, in Tallahassee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I was here from 2000 and 2008 to pursue my doctorate and went to Arizona State for five years and came back in the fall of 2013, when all this happened.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And back in that time frame, did you have a relationship with wendi Adelson?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when did that relationship begin?
JEFFREY LACASSE: we started dating in late September of 2013.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what was the nature of the relationship?
JEFFREY LACASSE: At first, it was very casual. we weren't exclusive. After Halloween, things started to accelerate. That's the fall of 2013. And then by late February, early March, we were an exclusive couple.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when did the relationship end?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It's a little tricky, but I would mark it at around July 14th --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Around the time --
JEFFREY LACASSE: -- 2014.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Around the time of the homicide or shortly before?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Right before. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: During the time that you were dating wendi Adelson, did you become aware of her divorce?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And the litigation surrounding the divorce and subsequent to the divorce, were you familiar with that, as well?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. It was a constant topic of conversation.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: were you aware that it was an unusually difficult or nasty divorce?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And during the time that you were dating her, were you aware that litigation was still pending during that time frame?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was there a specific item of litigation that was a common topic during the time you were dating Mrs. Adelson -- or Ms. Adelson?
JEFFREY LACASSE: well, as far as what she discussed, there were multiple -- the relocation motion had just been denied a couple months before we started dating. So that was still very much on wendi's mind. That came up a lot. Then there were the custody issues with the kids, of course.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Did you know Dan Markel?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I met him briefly a couple times.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was that in the context of you being the new boyfriend and exchanging the kids kind of thing?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Exactly. Picking up the kids, swimming lessons one time. Never spoke to him for more than two or three minutes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The interaction that you did have him -- with him, was that -- were those cordial?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was quiet and cordial.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you have any issues with him, other than things that wendi was telling you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I sort of adopted the Adelson family narrative. I kind of believed what wendi was telling me. And Wendi and I also had mutual friends from when I was here before, and they sort of adopted that narrative, as well. So I didn't have a personal beef with Dan Markel, but I did believe sort of the Adelson family story about Dan Markel.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: which is that he was making it very difficult for wendi. He was a difficult person.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If you know, did wendi Adelson want to relocate to South Florida?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, she did. very badly.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And why did she want to relocate to South Florida?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She preferred to be down there with her family. She also hated Tallahassee. That's in my original, you know, police statements. It was almost a daily topic of conversation how much she disliked Tallahassee. So it was both. She really disliked Tallahassee. She preferred to be in Miami. On our second date, she broke into tears talking about relocation. It abruptly ended the date. I mean, it was still very visceral, very important to her.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And that was shortly after the relocation had been denied; is that right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. That would have been Sept -- last week of September. So a couple months after. It was fresh then, yeah.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And were you specifically familiar, during that time, with the litigation seeking to limit Donna Adelson's exposure to the kids or to have her be supervised in the presence of the kids, because Dan was alleging that she had made disparaging remarks about him to the children?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. I was aware of that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How did you become aware of that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Oh, multiple ways. Wendi talking about it. It's hard to remember which exact e-mails and motions I was forwarded. But, definitely, wendi's talking about it, for sure. And perhaps I was sent court materials.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Were you also shown things jin --
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- her presence?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And, if you know, did wendi take those -- that particular filing seriously? was she upset about that or worried about that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. They were -- every time there was a motion, they took it very seriously, and I had reported to the police that it was disruptive on the relationship. Because every time something was filed, dates would get canceled, wendi would be in a mood, wendi would be upset. So...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when you say, they took it seriously, who are you referencing?
JEFFREY LACASSE: The entire family. But wendi was the person I had -- was having contact with. But it was known to me that the whole family was upset.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And how do you deduce that it's a they and not just a wendi? Is she in communication with the family? Is she relaying that to you? How do you know that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It's multiple --
MR. ZELMAN: Your Honor, I'm going to object. It calls for speculation and opinion.
JUDGE EVERETT: Overruled. He may testify as to his personal knowledge.
You're not to repeat, however, what anyone said out of court, Mr. Lacasse.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Sure. So conversations with Wendi, which were consistent and also observing the family dynamic, which was -- and I described to police as a family without boundaries that sort -- not having just a shared family life and --
MR. ZELMAN: Objection, Your Honor. This is an opinion.
JUDGE EVERETT: Sustained as to opinion.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So, in your observations, were -- let's keep it specific to Donna --
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- if you don't mind.
was Donna Adelson very involved in her daughter's life?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. Absolutely.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was she very involved in her daughter's divorce litigation?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And I say divorce. I know the divorce is already final. I'm referencing the subsequent litigation, as well.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: During the time that you were in a relationship with wendi, did you have the occasion to meet her family?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when was that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I met Donna -- we met on multiple times, but wendi had me come over to her house and had -- we had dinner with Donna in November. So sat down, had dinner with Donna.
There's about six or seven other occasions that we met and/or interacted. Me picking up Wendi to go on a date, and the parents would be in the living room. we went to a Hanukkah party together. We went to the circus together.
wendi's parents would use wendi's van to transport the kids. So I would come pick wendi up from the house to bring her to work, because the parents needed the car. I met Charlie in March. I stayed with him. So that's some of the interactions.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And when you met Donna, here, in Tallahassee, was Harvey always there, as well, or would sometimes be Donna alone?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't believe Harvey was there. I don't believe Harvey was there that time, but he was there other times.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So did it appear to you that Donna was frequently in Tallahassee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Donna was definitely frequently in Tallahassee between September and early May. After that, I'm not aware of her being in Tallahassee. well, I think she was in Tallahassee quickly once or twice after that. But in terms of extended trips, there was an awful lot of ex -- you know, Mom's here for a while and going on between September and late April, early May.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And when Donna was here in town, staying with wendi, what was the purpose of the visits, if you know?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I think multiple purposes. The children was -- almost everything revolved around spending time with the kids would be the main purpose that I was aware of.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And you said you met Charlie. where did you meet him?
JEFFREY LACASSE: wendi and I went to -- sorry.
wendi and I went to alternative spring break in Immokalee, Florida for spring break 2014. After we were done with that field trip of sorts, we went and stayed with Charlie at his house for one night. So I spent one evening with Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And did you interact at all with Donna and/or Harvey on that trip?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. They, they didn't attend. we didn't go there.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you ever spend time with Donna Adelson in South Florida?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So the only times you met her were here, in Tallahassee.
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what were your interactions with Donna Adelson like?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Just a few that I recall. Sometimes they were really quick, because I was just picking wendi up.
when we had dinner, we talked for maybe five, ten, maybe fifteen minutes, but it was just pretty quick and just getting to know the girl who I'm interested, her mom. So it's just that kind of thing. She excused herself from the table after, like, maybe 10, 12 minutes, something like that. And so --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was that a conversation where it was just the two of you seated at the table?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. It was wendi, myself, and Donna.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Just a getting-to-know-you-type thing.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Just ended fairly quickly.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what about Katherine Magbanua? Did you ever have an occasion to meet her?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did. She was at the dinner at Yardbird that myself, wendi Adelson -- myself, wendi Adelson, and Katie and Charlie were at. Yeah.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And that was the night that you spent in South Florida, where you met Charlie.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was that the only time you ever met Charlie?
JEFFREY LACASSE: The only time I ever met Charlie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And do you know the date of that visit?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I believe that's March 11th, 2014.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And how was Katherine Magbanua related to the Adelson family?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She was Charlie's new girlfriend at that dinner is how I knew her.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was it your impression or knowledge that this was the first meeting between wendi Adelson and Katherine Magbanua?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That was my impression. There was a lot of getting-to-know-you, talk-type stuff.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. At the dinner table, did the subject of Dan Markel come up?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. I don't remember a lot of specifics, but I think it came up kind of briefly. There was a lot of talk about wendi's book. I remember that part.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And, at the dinner table, did Katherine Magbanua's ex come up at all?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Could you tell us about that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. That stood out because Katie mentioned that she had a -- her children's father was always getting in trouble with the police and had a violent criminal record. I'm paraphrasing but it was -- it sounded like not parking tickets. It sounded pretty bad, and it stuck in my memory for that reason.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what happened after dinner?
JEFFREY LACASSE: we went back to Charlie's house on whale Harbor.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And did Katherine Magbanua go back to Charlie's house, as well?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So, at that time, it would be just the three of you: You, Wendi, and Charlie?
JEFFREY LACASSE: And Charlie's then roommate, Dr. Jerome Obed.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And can you describe the residence there?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. I thought it was a nice house. Had a hot tub. Had a pool.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Did you get in the hot tub that night?
JEFFREY LACASSE: we did get in the hot tub for a while.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: who all was in the hot tub?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Myself, Charlie, Wendi, and Dr. Obed, at some points. And people were in and out, but those were the four that were in the hot tub.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And during that time, did Charlie Adelson make some comments against Dan Markel?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. Yes. He didn't like Dan. That might be understating it. Yeah.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is that the most you can remember was the gist was that he didn't like him?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm not downloading that exact quote at this moment. I remember he was, he was fired up. It wasn't just like, I don't like Danny. It was a -- maybe a overprotective brother, anger sort of vibe to it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did he make some other comment about the wrong side of the tracks or something?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's kind of --
MR. ZELMAN: Objection, Your Honor. Hearsay.
JUDGE EVERETT: Please approach.
(sidebar discussion held as follows):
JUDGE EVERETT: Go ahead.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Co-conspirator relation, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: I believe the motion in limine ruling covered this previously, but it was specifically there had to be a conspiracy demonstrated by the State. One of the conspirators was offering the statement. And at this point, when wendi Adelson testified yesterday, she denied in all manner speaking to Jeffrey Lacasse about anything concerning Dan Markel, the murder, or the conspiracy.
So what exactly is being objected to, Mr. Zelman?
MR. ZELMAN: They have not connected -- my opinion, Your Honor, my argument is that not only does wendi Adelson and Charlie Adelson have any -- established a part of conspiracy with Donna Adelson, as well.
JUDGE EVERETT: Concerning that aspect of it, there has been cross-examination, I believe, by Ms. Fulford to Luis Rivera that there was a conspiracy. Wendi Adelson was a part of the conspiracy.
MR. ZELMAN: It's being offered against Donna, Luis Rivera.
JUDGE EVERETT: Correct. Ms. Cappleman, as to the issue of connecting Donna to the conspiracy, what is your argument at this point?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That's going to be done by the totality of the evidence. So this is invoking a James hearing. And I would request Your Honor to reserve ruling pending the conclusion of the evidence to make all of those connections.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well. I'll reserve ruling at this point. If any limiting or correcting instruction will have to be given to the jury at that time, I will do so. But as to the conspiracy involving Charlie and wendi and there having been a conspiracy to kill the victim in the case, I'm going to find that has been established.
Specifically, as to wendi's statements that go to Jeffrey Lacasse, she has denied having any conversation with him on this subject matter, whatsoever. So that is ripe for impeachment.
As to whether the Defendant has been connected to the conspiracy as of yet, we'll hear from them on that topic. Again, if any limiting instruction needs to be given, or the jury needs to be told to disregard part of the testimony of Jeffrey Lacasse, I will do that, as well, if necessary.
MS. FULFORD: Just a second.
JUDGE EVERETT: Go ahead.
(off-the-record discussion.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Go ahead.
MR. ZELMAN: Thank you. Judge, instead of a limiting instruction, if the State is unable to establish our client's connection to this conspiracy, we'd be asking for a mistrial at that time.
JUDGE EVERETT: If you believe it becomes necessary, you'll need to raise it at the appropriate time.
MR. ZELMAN: Yes, sir. Thank you.
Obviously, the defense position is that any of these statements cannot -- it has been proven up, the foundation. Does Your Honor -- in order to protect the record, I would continue to object, though.
JUDGE EVERETT: Your objection will be noted.
MR. ZELMAN: Thank you.
(Sidebar discussion concludes. )
JUDGE EVERETT: The objection is overruled. You may continue with your line of inquiry, Ms. Cappleman.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sir, do you remember the statement that I was referencing?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, I do. There was a couple of statements in the hot tub.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
JEFFREY LACASSE: One was about the fact that Charlie knew people on both sides of the tracks. They hung out with professionals, dentists, doctors, et cetera. But he also knew a -- you know, was familiar and had social contacts that were in the criminal element. And he spe -- he was kind of bragging, and he kind of specifically mentioned Cuban neighborhoods as a place where you would find that criminal element.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I want to ask you about an incident involving -- I think the context is assessing wendi's oldest child for gifted placement.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you know where I'm going with that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Could you tell the jury, please?
JEFFREY LACASSE: wendi was looking to get her older son tested to see if he was gifted to get him placed in school. This is spring 2014. I was trying to put her in touch with some people that could do that. And we were talking about that, and she asked me when children develop autobiographical memory.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is your training or profession such that you have some knowledge that you could offer on that topic?
MR. ZELMAN: Objection, Your Honor. He's not been disclosed as an expert.
JUDGE EVERETT: Sustained. You'll need to establish a foundation as to why this testimony could be given by this individual, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm not offering it for its truth, Judge. It goes to Ms. Adelson's state of mind and motive.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well, as to that purpose, I will permit it. However, as to that limited issue only can this be considered by the jury.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So -- I mean, you're not an expert on children's autobiographical memories, are you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Not really. I've seen some of the textbooks I teach out of. But I think I can keep it out of the scientific realm, explain it commonsensically, which is how I responded to wendi. Children at age two have amnesia, which most parents probably realize. Between three and four, kids start to develop the ability to retain --
MR. ZELMAN: Your Honor --
JEFFREY LACASSE: -- memories.
MR. ZELMAN: -- I'm going to object. This is expert testimony.
JUDGE EVERETT: AS to a specific thing that goes to the state of mind of the individual you are testifying about, Mr. Lacasse, you may speak. As to your knowledge of any literature or research on this matter, I do not need you to testify on that matter.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Okay.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what is your profession? what is your background?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm a professor of social work. I teach mental health courses.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So Wendi asks you what?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She asked me when kids develop memory. when -- at what age will kids start to remember what happened to them when they were a kid?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what was your answer?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I think I said five or six --
MR. ZELMAN: I'm going to object, again. This is expert testimony.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It's not.
JUDGE EVERETT: Overruled, Mr. Zelman. Sit down. He may testify concerning not the truth of the matter asserted but how this affected the state of mind of Wendi Adelson.
MR. ZELMAN: Your Honor, this has not been disclosed to the defense.
JUDGE EVERETT: Please approach.
(Sidebar discussion held as follows):
MS. CAPPLEMAN: He's given lots of statements, and I don't know. So I'm going to have to look through -- we're going to have to take a recess to research that. It's not new to me but -- I don't know.
JUDGE EVERETT: was he deposed by the prior counsel?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I don't remember. I've got to look at my records, because it all blurs together for me, and I want to give you the correct answer.
JUDGE EVERETT: Mr. Zelman, was he deposed by the prior counsel for your client?
MR. ZELMAN: I don't think so.
MS. FULFORD: But they have never disclosed him to provide this expert testimony. And, for the record --
JUDGE EVERETT: He's not being called as an expert.
MS. FULFORD: I understand, Your Honor. But he is giving information based on the knowledge he got in his training and experience. And we're not talking about the state of mind of wendi. He's providing that particular information when it is that children develop.
JUDGE EVERETT: The answer that he's providing is recalling something that he spoke to wendi Adelson. This is not being offered as an expert. The jury has been instructed he is not an expert on this topic several times.
Ms. Cappleman, if you wish to continue down this line of questioning, you are going to need to demonstrate that this information was provided as a part of discovery. Do you wish to continue with this line of questioning?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well.
(Sidebar discussion concludes. )
JUDGE EVERETT: Members of the jury, we're going to take a brief break. The bailiff will take you to the jury room.
(Jury exits.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Mr. Lacasse, if you can step down, please. Step outside the courtroom doors. Don't discuss your testimony with anyone else.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, sir.
(witness exits.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated.
(Pause. )
JUDGE EVERETT: Ms. Cappleman, how long do you think it will take to find this portion of either the deposition or material providing discovery?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Maybe another ten minutes, Judge.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well. we'll take a recess, then, until 9:40.
(Brief recess.)
BAILIFF: All rise. Circuit court is now back in session.
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated.
Ms. Cappleman, did you find the information that you were seeking to elicit?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir. I'm sorry I didn't have an answer for you. The case has had so many incarnations. It's hard for me to remember who knows what. But I am conceding the violation. It's certainly not intentional. I did not find it.
Mr. Rashbaum did not depose this witness, so I'll move on.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well. Is the defense requesting the Court to conduct a Richardson hearing?
MR. ZELMAN: It's not intentional. I would concede that. There are a lot of materials in here. I would just -- if the State's going to move on, I don't think we need to inquire further.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Should I get the witness, Judge?
JUDGE EVERETT: One moment. Briefly so the record is clean on this topic, I will find there has been a discovery violation with regard -- to the testimony of Jeffrey Lacasse on the subject matter of what was discussed with wendi Adelson concerning any issues as to the children's memories.
I will find this was inadvertent as there have been -- I believe this, Ms. Cappleman, is the fifth or sixth trial in this?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Only the fourth, Judge.
JUDGE EVERETT: Excuse me. The fourth trial that has occurred under this set of facts. And there has been a multitude of discovery or interviews or depositions of this witness. But specifically as to this defendant being able to depose this witness on this topic, that did not take place by prior counsel or current counsel. I will find it is trivial, and it has not had a prejudicial effect on the ability of the defense to prepare since the State is conceding the matter and no further examination on this topic will take place.
The Court will give a curative instruction to the jury for them to disregard and not consider as evidence in this matter any testimony that has taken place concerning a conversation between wendi Adelson and Jeffrey Lacasse as to the children's memories.
You may bring in the witness.
(witness enters.)
JUDGE EVERETT: They might be using the bathroom but once they're ready.
You can come back to the witness stand, Mr. Lacasse.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, just for the record, I conferred with defense counsel about the decision to give a curative instruction, even though it sounded like they weren't asking for it. And it sounds like they're in agreement with that procedure.
MR. ZELMAN: That's correct, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: I would, in no way, would have an adverse.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Well, there could be an argument that it draws more attention to the information. So I just wanted to make sure that their agreement was clear for the record.
JUDGE EVERETT: Mr. Zelman, do you wish to have a curative or do you not?
MR. ZELMAN: The proposed curative is acceptable, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well.
(Jury enters.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated.
Members of the jury, before the examination of this witness continues, I am going to give you a brief instruction. The last objection that was raised by defense, it is being sustained. You are to disregard any testimony that has taken place by this witness concerning the issues of any statements or any conversation he had with wendi Adelson about her children's memories. You are not to consider this as a part of the evidence in this case.
You may continue with your examination.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you, Judge.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (cont)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Around this same time frame -- I guess we're talking about maybe March of '14, somewhere in there. Did wendi Adelson -- actually, strike that.
I'm going to move on to the coffee shop meeting. Familiar with that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: The June 4th coffee shop?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir. June 4th, 2014. Did you have plans prior to that meeting to travel with wendi Adelson over the time frame in which Dan Markel was ultimately killed?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. That's right. And on June 4th I had planned to see Wendi and the kids at her house that night. Middle of the day, she called me to sort of an impromptu meeting at Red Eye, over on Thomasville. And she abruptly canceled our trip for reasons that didn't make much sense.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when was the trip scheduled to happen?
JEFFREY LACASSE: The 11th to the 17th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So you would have returned home, actually, the day before the murder occurred.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did she express concern about not being home in time to pick up the children?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. The reason she canceled the trip was, I'm worried we're going to get --
MR. ZELMAN: Your Honor, objection to hearsay.
JUDGE EVERETT: Sustained. Unless there is an exception, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Goes to motive, Judge.
JUDGE EVERETT: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Don't care if they go on a trip or not.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, sir. So the reason for not going on the trip?
JEFFREY LACASSE: The reason for not going on the trip was tied up with a couple things. First of all, all the stuff going on with Danny was a constant refrain. But given the stuff going on with Danny, she was concerned that she might not be back in time, even though our flight was to land the day before. And it wasn't -- it's so odd to me. It wasn't winter. we're going through, like, LA to Atlanta to Tallahassee, leaving in the morning. I didn't see any real reason why that would be a problem.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: She would have needed to pick up the kids on July 18th, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. Yeah. She knew that then. Their schedules were planned out for, like, months.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So you would have returned on the 17th, and she would have been picking up her children from preschool on the 18th.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. I think 5:00 p.m. on the 18th, which is why -- I mean, I didn't object. I just said, okay. I didn't make a thing out of it, but it didn't make any sense.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And that, just for clarification, that conversation occurred on June 4th.
JEFFREY LACASSE: It did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. when was the next time you saw her after that coffee shop meeting?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. So that was midafternoon. And then, in the evening, I had plans to go see her and spend time with her and the kids. And then she had contacted me that she wasn't feeling well. I should, like, rush over there, essentially. She had a stomach problem. So I got there as quickly as I could.
(off-the-record discussion. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So did you go to her residence that evening?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what happened when you got there?
JEFFREY LACASSE: On the way there, I remember contacting her and asking her do I need to stop and get some stomach medicine or something like that and didn't. I believe she told me not to. Once I got there, she hemmed and hawed a little bit. And then, eventually, I left, because she was a complete anxious wreck. She didn't have the flu. She didn't have food poisoning. She was just a nervous, anxious wreck, and it was affecting her stomach.
So after a little while, I drove to a nearby convenience store to go get her Pepto-Bismol, which I recall, because I have a credit card receipt from this random convenience store a few miles from her house.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So she was a nervous wreck that night. And did she tell you what the problem was or not?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. There was no discernible -- I couldn't figure it out. She didn't tell me. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right. Was there a time when you were over at Ms. Adelson's residence and you observed that her Tv was broken?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Tell me about that. when did that occur?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That would have been around the week of June 11th to 18th, somewhere in that time period. I went over wendi's to spend time with her and the kids. And she asked me to take a look at the television. I turned it on. She said there was a problem with the Tv. So I turned it on, expecting to see, like, input 1 flashing or, you know, the kids pushed the wrong button, or whatever.
And what I'm looking at when I turned it on is a screen that's been partially shattered. It's been struck by an object. So she had a broken Tv.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And did she know -- did she tell you what happened to the Tv, how it got into that state?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. She kind of asked me to look into the Tv, as if, you know, she didn't know. I looked around. It was implausible to me that -- it's implausible to me that the kids would have done it, but I didn't know, you know, a better explanation at the time. So I was kind of mystified as to what happen -- I mean, it looked like a human being stood, you know, between five-five and six-foot, something like that, had stood in front of it and hit it. That's what it looked like.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
JEFFREY LACASSE: But she was asking me.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So it was like an impact mark, like a round impact with spiderwebs.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Exactly the image. The pixels are distorted. Most people have probably seen this. So it's -- it wasn't completely shattered. You could sort of see what was going on in the television. But it's not a TV anybody would normally watch.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right. So let's move away from the Tv for now. was there a date that you had with wendi Adelson on -- gosh, have I gone backwards in time here? It was the day before her birthday. what was the date of that --
JEFFREY LACASSE: We were scheduled --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- meeting?
JEFFREY LACASSE: -- to have a date -- the day before her birthday is April 21st. We were scheduled to have kind of a special date night that night. Wendi didn't answer her phone, didn't answer her texts, and I got so concerned about her. A few hours after the date was supposed to have started, I just drove over there to check on her.
Knock on the -- knocked on the door for a while. She finally came to the door. Appeared to be intoxicated and not just on alcohol. I mean, weary eyed. I'm not sure what substance it is but it's -- it wasn't good. She wanted me to stay and I was, I was annoyed enough that I actually just left. I just -- I didn't stay the night. So...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So I kind of got our time line out of order but some erratic behavior from her on April 21st and then again on June 4th; is that right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I'm going to approach and show you a text message that was sent on June 28th of 2014. And I've marked it as State's Exhibit 141. Have you ever had a chance to review this text message before?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. You showed this to me last week.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And this message had never been shown to you before last week, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And it's been testified that this was from wendi Adelson to her brother, Rob Adelson, but it concerns you.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is there anything factually incorrect in what wendi Adelson is stating in that text message?
JEFFREY LACASSE: well, when he says, I haven't told Mom and Dad about me, I met them multiple times. I -- it's implausible that they didn't know we were dating. For example, I was aware that wen -- that Donna wasn't thrilled that I wasn't Jewish, you know. So there was -- that doesn't add -- this doesn't make sense to me in terms of, like, seeing me for six or seven months and --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So, in that text message, she's saying, you know, that you're a secret boyfriend from the parents.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: were you a secret boyfriend from the parents at that time?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It's implausible. No, I don't think so.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In fact, you'd met the parents several times.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. I had conversations with them. One of the conversations were conversations. And the other part that's really significant is the kids talked about me constantly. I have all kinds of text messages and e-mails where wendi's mentioned the kids are down in South Florida talking about me.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time I'd ask to move into evidence State's 141.
JUDGE EVERETT: Any objection?
MR. ZELMAN: May I see that, please?
(off-the-record discussion.)
MR. ZELMAN: No objection.
JUDGE EVERETT: State's 141 is admitted at this time.
(State's Exhibit No. 141 received in evidence.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I want to draw your attention next to a disagreement that occurred with Wendi Adelson on June 29th of 2014. Do you recall that incident?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And, at that time did you confront wendi about some suspicions you had that she was seeing other men?
JEFFREY LACASSE: And that was part of it. That was the main part of the disagreement. I also had spent the last two or three months concerned that she was -- she seemed to be stringing me along.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: where did the fight occur?
JEFFREY LACASSE: The fight occurred in Gainesville.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And I say fight. It was a verbal disagreement.
JEFFREY LACASSE: verbal disagreement. And argument's not even the right word. we just exchanged words. Yeah.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did that exchange of words lead to an awkward drive together back to Tallahassee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It did. A very awkward drive back to Tallahassee.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And that was...
JEFFREY LACASSE: I guess the morning of 20 -- it was the 29th or 30th. It was the 30th, the morning of the 30th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Morning of June 30th.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And after you parted ways, once you return back to Tallahassee on the 30th, what was the status of your relationship over the next couple weeks?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. when we left that -- when I left on the 30th, wendi was clear that it wasn't over, but it wasn't great that we had this exchange either. So over the next couple weeks, we had phone calls, text messages, video chats with the kids. My take was seems like it's probably going to be okay, but I didn't know for sure. It did string the relationship out another couple of weeks when it easily could have ended.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when was the next time you saw her in person?
JEFFREY LACASSE: July 13th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So about -- I guess that's the Sunday before the murder; is that right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And where did you see her?
JEFFREY LACASSE: we went to dinner and a movie. I picked her up at her house in Aqua Ridge. We went to dinner and a movie and then returned there.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. while we're on the topic of Aqua Ridge, I'm going to approach and show you what's been introduced into evidence.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Maybe. Is that in evidence, Ms. Dugan?
(off-the-record discussion.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. we'll circle back to Aqua Ridge. So we're on the disagreement, didn't see her for a while, saw her on July 13th. And you were at her residence. what were y'all -- what was the plan for that evening?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I didn't know. It was just to spend time together and maybe talk about the relationship some. But we had some -- we were conversing. we had conversations.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: were the kids there that night?
JEFFREY LACASSE: They were not. No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So it was just the two of you at the residence?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Just the two of us.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And did the subject of relocation come up?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In what context?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It came up in the context of whenever wendi got back from Miami, she was always very upset about the fact the relocation had previously been denied. I mean, it had been legally denied, but she wasn't over it. It was a constant refrain about how much she hated Tallahassee. So we're talking about the future of our relationship. And I'm asking, are you going to be here? Because with the constant complaining about how hard it was on her parents to transport the kids and just the constant complaining, I was just thinking, is she even going to be here? Is it worth trying to push forward in the relationship? And she said, the only way that I'd ever relocate is something would have to happen to Danny.
MR. ZELMAN: Objection, Your Honor. This is hearsay.
JUDGE EVERETT: Subject to the same ruling at sidebar, the objection is overruled pending the other matters that do have to be addressed.
You may continue, Ms. Cappleman.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Please repeat your answer.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. The only way she'd ever be able to relocate is if something happened to Danny was the first statement.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did she mention anything further about something --
JEFFREY LACASSE: well --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- happening to Danny?
JEFFREY LACASSE: -- can I get the context before the next?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. So I was getting a little tired of this whole drama around the relocation. And so I pushed back on wendi a little bit and said, like, you're going to have to kind of make your peace with this. You're going to have to take some responsibility for this. You're linked to Dan Markel for life. I kind of challenged her a little bit. And she said, well, can I tell you something confidentially? And I said, sure. And she said, last summer --
MR. ZELMAN: Objection. I'm going to repeat the same objection. I understand the Court's ruling.
JUDGE EVERETT: Same ruling remains. The objection is overruled. You may continue with your answer.
JEFFREY LACASSE: She said --
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can I tell you something in confidence?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. Can I tell you -- after I challenged her, can I tell you -- well, can I tell you something in confidence? Sure. well, last summer, my brother looked into all options possible to take care of the Danny Markel problem, including hiring a hitman, and it would cost about $15,000.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And when she referred to her brother, she's got two of those, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was -- she said Charlie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And when she said Charlie looked into hiring a hitman, are you familiar with Charlie's joke, I looked into hiring a hitman but got you a TV as a divorce present because it was cheaper?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. wendi had told me that joke a couple times. This was not that joke.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So this was something different.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. The joke was said with levity as a dark joke, but, this, I found chilling. I found disturbing. It made my stomach flip. It kind of took me aback. It was -- she was dead serious when --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
JEFFREY LACASSE: -- she said this. And she asked to tell me in confidence, which you don't do before you tell a joke.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So I want to take you to the next day then. So we're at July 14th, the Monday before the murder.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you see wendi Adelson on that date?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. we had contact throughout the day trying to arrange some kind of date. It kind of ebbed and flowed. She was real enthusiastic about seeing me at one point, and then, like, that afternoon, let's just meet at yoga is what was decided. So we went to yoga.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. what happened after yoga?
JEFFREY LACASSE: well, I was wondering why we were at yoga, because wendi was being very strange. I felt like the relationship was over. She wasn't feeling well. I'm not a big yoga guy, so I didn't understand why we were at yoga for, like, 80 minutes, you know, stretching. But then when we left yoga, we barely spoke. I was just getting a vibe that this is over.
Tried to talk about the relationship. Didn't go very well. It was pretty clear to me. My internal thoughts were like, you know, this is over. So I -- and she didn't want to spend time with me the rest of the week, so I just put my hands up like this Cindicating). I remember this vividly. And just turned around and walked away.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: where were you when that was happening?
JEFFREY LACASSE: we were in the parking lot of Journeys in Yoga, over by Winn-Dixie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So you have your two respective vehicles there and --
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- and you're parting ways.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. what happens as you walk away?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Get about 10, 15 feet away from her, and she calls after me. I turn around and she had a series of detailed questions about what I would be doing on Friday. I had a trip to Tennessee planned, and she wanted to know if I was going on that trip. And she wanted to know what route I would be taking. And if I didn't go on the trip, why wouldn't I go on the trip? And I answered the questions as best I could, but I was confused why, at that moment, she wanted to know the details of what I was doing on Friday, when she, expressly, didn't want to spend time with me on Friday.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And we now know that Dan Markel was murdered on Friday, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If you had taken the trip as planned, which is -- as you reported to wendi that day, what would your route have been?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I would have left my house at about 11:00 a.m., which wendi knew. I'd related my plan to her earlier in the relationship. Need to get to Atlanta for dinner and was worried about traffic and stuff like that. So I would have left at 11:00 and I would have driven down -- I would have got to Capital Circle and Thomasville, which is close enough to Danny's house that it kind of gave me the creeps. It was kind of weird. Yeah.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So, physically, you're saying you might have been sort of consistent with where the killers -- how the killers fled town.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And after this yoga date and the discussion of your travel plans, did you get an e-mail from wendi?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm going to publish what's been introduced into evidence as State's GG. Sorry, 64-GG.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is this the e-mail she sent you after the yoga date?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So she's -- is she breaking up with you? Is that clear?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. She's asking -- well, I considered the re -- based on our interaction, I thought this is over. I had told wendi if she wanted to break up with me -- she doesn't like confrontation -- just send me an e-mail or text. She sends me this, which strings everything out for another week. So she's not breaking up. She's -- I mean, functionally, that's -- realistically, I'm not dumb. I'm thinking we're over. But she's asking for another week, which brings it to the 21st of July. And I was puzzled. I wondered what in the world is going to happen July 21st, but I just didn't respond because she asked for no contact.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So she wants to have no contact for a week.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I was able to find that photo I was looking for earlier, 86-A. Approach and show you that. Do you recognize 86-A?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. That's wendi's Adelson's residence on Aqua Ridge. And that's what it looked like when we were dating.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Move into evidence 86-A.
JUDGE EVERETT: Any objection?
MR. ZELMAN: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: Ejighty-six-A is admitted at this time.
(State's Exhibit No. 86-A received in evidence.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May I publish?
JUDGE EVERETT: You may.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So I blurred the boys' faces, but this is how the residence at Aqua Ridge appeared?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And the kids' art that's shown on the wall here, was that present during the time that you were dating wendi Adelson?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was it something that, like, like, you know, art would come down, other art would go up, or was it pretty fixed?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was -- maybe some art would get added, but I never saw any come down until July 14th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Thirteenth. Sorry, July 13th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. July 13th you noticed that the art had been taken down?
JEFFREY LACASSE: we walked into the kitchen, and then wendi was pulling art off the wall. It's the only time I'd ever seen her do that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And I want to ask you about -- I have nicknamed it the celebration dinner. Are you familiar with that --
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- topic?
Okay. Could you tell the jury about that, please?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
MR. ZELMAN: Objection, Your Honor. Calls for hearsay. I understand the Court's prior ruling.
JUDGE EVERETT: Objection is overruled.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Wendi and I reestablished phone contact about ten days after the murder. She called me and we had a couple -- three or four phone calls. In one of them, she related that her and charlie had gone to what Charlie called a celebration dinner. And at that dinner, Charlie said something to her -- she didn't specify what it was -- and she spontaneously vomited all over the table.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Are you aware, sir, that you were suggested as a potential suspect --
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- in this murder?
where were you when Dan Markel was murdered?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I was in Tennessee, because I had left on my trip the night before rather than --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So you changed your plans.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I changed my plans at the last minute.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And you provided law enforcement with some receipts and things to prove that you were in Tennessee at the time?
JEFFREY LACASSE: All that and I got a flat tire. So I ended up getting videotaped at a Kmart. And I know the -- TPD is that -- to exclude me with the time stamp on the surveillance footage.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May I have one moment, Your Honor?
JUDGE EVERETT: Take your time.
(off-the-record discussion. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At some point, did you learn that the killers came to Tallahassee in June, not just in July?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. when the arrests were made and the documents were released, I learned that. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And did you put together some facts about your travel plans that day that could have potentially made you a suspect on that trip, as well, if the murder had happened as planned?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. That Friday I was scheduled to go to a business trip in Gainesville, leaving at 11:00 a.m. So two times in 2014 I leave town on a trip by myself in my car, and both times hitmen are in town trying to kill Danny Markel. One successfully, obviously.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Are you familiar with the type of vehicle that was originally rented by the killers in June to make that June trip?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was that significant to you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. I mean, this is long after this all happened. This is -- I'm learning this from court proceedings from 2016. But I heard they rented a gray Altima, initially. I hada 2004 Nissan Sentra. That, that freaked me out because that's about as close as you're going to get to my car on the rental market.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. I'm going to show you what I've marked as State's Demonstrative Exhibit G. Recognize this exhibit?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, ma'am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Is this the make and model of the -- it's not the actual rental car, but the make and model of the rental car compared to the make and model of your vehicle?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. My car is right on top. That looks just like the car I had at the time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Permission to publish G, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: You may.
(State's Exhibit No. G is published.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May I have one more moment to confer, please?
JUDGE EVERETT: Go ahead.
(off-the-record discussion.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No further questions, Judge.
JUDGE EVERETT: Cross-examination.
MR. ZELMAN: Yes, Your Honor. Just a moment.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELMAN:
MR. ZELMAN: Good morning.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Good morning.
MR. ZELMAN: And it's Dr. Lacasse, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Jeff is fine. Mr. Lacasse is fine.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. You testified that it was your understanding that my client, Donna Adelson, was aware of the motion that the State has called the Grandmother Motion.
JEFFREY LACASSE: yes.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. Do you know how she took that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was a -- I'm hearing this stuff from wendi.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. well, do you know how she took it?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. I wasn't there to observe her reaction. The whole family was upset about every one of these motions was my impression. Information coming from wendi.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. And so the only person that you spoke with about how the family took things was from wendi.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Putting Charlie's --
MR. ZELMAN: Aside from Charlie in the hot tub.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Aside from Charlie in the hot tub, it was all through wendi. That's correct, sir.
MR. ZELMAN: Isn't it true that you found wendi -- let me find the exact quote. Didn't you find wendi to be a deeply deceitful person?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. Depending on the topic, I mean, that's true. But a lot of the stuff she told me about her family was later released in -- you know, in evidence. I'm talking about the kids getting --
MR. ZELMAN: Your Honor, I'd move to strike that response.
JUDGE EVERETT: Sustained.
Mr. Lacasse, you are only to respond to the question that you are asked.
Members of the jury, the portion of the answer that were nonresponsive, you are not to consider.
You may continue.
MR. ZELMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MR. ZELMAN:
MR. ZELMAN: And you, yourself, do not have any personal knowledge as to how my client, Donna Adelson, took the Grandmother Motion, do you?
MR. ZELMAN: Isn't it true that you only had limited small talk with my client, Donna Adelson?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
(Pause. )
BY MR. ZELMAN:
MR. ZELMAN: Now let's talk about the damage to the television that you observed in June of 2014. You -- can you tell us, again, how you described that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. There, there was a spiderweb pattern, like, in the center of the screen, and it radiates out, out, outwards. Anywhere it's been cracked, it will pixilate. So you can see what's going on. You can track it, but it's not pleasant, and you would never watch that Tv. And we watched a movie on that TV in Wendi's insistence, which was why I remember this was a very strange evening.
MR. ZELMAN: Didn't you suggest going to watch the movie on another Tv?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, I did. There was a perfectly good Tv in the other room. That's correct.
MR. ZELMAN: And she made a fuss.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I tried to respect wendi's boundaries, her house, her kids, so she didn't have to make a fuss. I was -- it's an awkward situation dating someone that has two kids, so I'm not insisting on anything. But the kids were whining about the broken TV. That is correct, sir.
MR. ZELMAN: Made it difficult to even really watch or enjoy the movie.
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's right.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. Can you tell us about how big that impact was?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Fist size.
MR. ZELMAN: Adult or child?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I, I don't remember with that precision.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. And you testified -- let's see -- about a statement that wendi Adelson said to you on July 13th of 2014 that she wanted to say to you in confidence.
JEFFREY LACASSE: yes.
MR. ZELMAN: And it was that her brother looked into hiring a hitman.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Her brother Charlie.
MR. ZELMAN: Her brother Charlie.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, sir. That's correct.
MR. ZELMAN: Just a moment, Your Honor?
JUDGE EVERETT: Go ahead.
(off-the-record discussion. )
MR. ZELMAN: Nothing further, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: Redirect examination.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: You may step down, Mr. Lacasse.
(witness exits.)