Jeffrey Lacasse — Direct/Cross
428 linesJUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated.
JUDGE EVERETT: Before we get started this morning I just wanted to give some brief instruction to the gallery, as I have on previous days. Once again, please keep your phones off or keep them on silent as the trial is taking place. Do not shake your heads or make any gesturing as the witnesses are testifying, whether you agree or disagree with any of the testimony.
JUDGE EVERETT: If any of the testimony is going to be distressing or upsetting for you, please remove yourself from the courtroom. Also, if you step outside while the witness is testifying, you are to remain outside until there has been a change in witnesses.
JUDGE EVERETT: One other matter has been brought to my attention as well.
JUDGE EVERETT: If you are in any common areas with the jurors on this case, please do not discuss any matters that are pertaining to the case around the jurors. As they are not to discuss the case with each other or anyone else, they cannot be affected by any conversations that are happening by the observers. If you see the jurors, please do not engage them, do not talk to them, do not discuss matters that pertain to the case around them. Does anyone have any questions concerning those? Please raise your hands. Very well, with there being no questions, do the parties have any matters that you need to raise for this morning?
JUDGE EVERETT: Please approach. Once they're finished with the bathroom, we'll bring them out and we'll get started.
JUDGE EVERETT: Jurors might be ready, but if you need to use the restroom, please go do it now if you need to.
JUDGE EVERETT: We are going to resume with the state's case once again this morning.
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone does have their notepads and pens in their seats?
JUDGE EVERETT: And for the record, the jurors have responded in the affirmative.
JUDGE EVERETT: Ms. Cappleman, you may call your next witness.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The state calls Jeff Lacasse.
JUDGE EVERETT: Please raise your right hand, sir.
JUDGE EVERETT: Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
JUDGE EVERETT: You may take your seat.
JUDGE EVERETT: You may inquire, State.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sir, please introduce yourself and spell your name.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm Jeffrey Lacasse.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Pardon me?
JEFFREY LACASSE: J-E-F-F-R-E-Y L-A-C-A-S-S-E.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How are you employed?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm an associate professor at Florida State University.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How long have you been at FSU?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Since 2013, so 11 years now — 12 years now.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Have you always lived here in Tallahassee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I was here from 2000 to 2008 pursuing my doctorate, and I went to Arizona State for five years, and I came back in the fall of 2013 when all this happened.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Back in that time frame, did you have a relationship with Wendi Adelson?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When did that relationship begin?
JEFFREY LACASSE: We started dating in late September of 2013.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What was the nature of the relationship?
JEFFREY LACASSE: At first it was very casual. We weren't exclusive. After Halloween, things started to accelerate — that's the fall of 2013 — and then by late February, early March, we were an exclusive couple.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When did the relationship end?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It's a little tricky, but I would mark it at around July 14th, 2014.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Around the time of the homicide, or shortly before?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Right, right before, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: During the time that you were dating Wendi Adelson, did you become aware of her divorce?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Litigation surrounding the divorce, and subsequent to the divorce — were you familiar with that as well?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, it was a constant topic of conversation.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Were you aware that it was an unusually difficult or nasty divorce?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And during the time that you were dating her, were you aware that litigation was still pending during that time frame?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was there a specific item of litigation that was a common topic during the time you were dating Mrs. Adelson?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, as far as what she discussed, there were multiple. The relocation motion had just been denied a couple months before we started dating, so that was still very much on Wendi's mind. That came up a lot. Then there were the custody issues with the kids, of course.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you know Dan Markel?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I met him briefly a couple times.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was that in the context of you being the new boyfriend, in exchange of the kids?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Exactly — picking up the kids, swimming lessons one time. Never spoke to him for more than two or three minutes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The interaction that you did have with him — were those cordial?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was polite and cordial.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you have any issues with him other than things that Wendi was telling you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I sort of adopted the Adelson family narrative. I kind of believed what Wendi was telling me.
JEFFREY LACASSE: And Wendi and I also had mutual friends from when I was here before, and they had sort of adopted that narrative as well. So I didn't have a personal beef with Dan Markel, but I did believe sort of the Adelson family story about Dan Markel.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Which is that he was making it very difficult for Wendi — he was a difficult person?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If you know, did Wendi Adelson want to relocate to South Florida?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, she did, very badly.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And why did she want to relocate to South Florida?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She preferred to be down there with her family. She also hated Tallahassee — that's in my original, you know, police statements. It was almost a daily topic of conversation, how much she disliked Tallahassee.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So I suppose she really disliked Tallahassee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She preferred to be in Miami. On our second date, she broke into tears talking about relocation and abruptly ended the date. I mean, it was still very visceral, very important to her.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and that was shortly after the relocation had been denied?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, that would have been last week of September, so a couple months after — it was fresh then, yeah.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and were you specifically familiar during that time with the litigation seeking to limit Donna Adelson's exposure to the kids — or to have her be supervised in the presence of the kids — because Dan was alleging that she had made disparaging remarks about him to the children?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, I was aware of that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How did you become aware of that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Oh, multiple ways. Wendi talking about it. It's hard to remember which exact emails and motions I was forwarded, but definitely Wendi talking about it for sure. And perhaps I was sent court materials.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Were you also shown things? And if you know, did Wendi take that particular filing seriously? Was she upset about that, or worried about that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, they were. Every time there was a motion, they took it very seriously. And I'd reported to the police that it was disruptive on the relationship, because every time something was filed, dates would get canceled, Wendi would be in a mood, Wendi would be upset.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So when you say "they" took it seriously, who are you referencing?
JEFFREY LACASSE: The entire family. But Wendi was the person I was having contact with — but it was known to me that the whole family was upset.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and how do you deduce that it's a "they" and not just a Wendi? Is she in communication with the family? Is she relaying that to you? How do you know that?
JUDGE EVERETT: Overruled. He may testify as to his personal knowledge. You're not to repeat, however, what anyone said out of court.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Sure. Um, so conversations with Wendi, which were consistent, and also observing the family dynamic — which was, you know, described to police as a family without boundaries, that sort of not having just a shared family life that you're on.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so in your observations — let's keep it specific to Donna, if you don't mind — was Donna Adelson very involved in her daughter's life?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, absolutely.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was she very involved in her daughter's divorce litigation?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And I say "divorce" — I know the divorce is already final, I'm referencing the subsequent litigation as well.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: During the time that you were in a relationship with Wendi, did you have the occasion to meet her family?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When was that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I met Donna — went about it multiple times. But Wendi had me come over to our house and had me have dinner with Donna in mid-November. So I sat down and had dinner with Donna. There were about six or seven other occasions that we met and/or interacted — me picking up Wendi to go on a date, and the parents would be in the living room. We went to a Hanukkah party together. We went to the circus together. Wendi's parents would use Wendi's van to directly transport the kids, so I would come pick Wendi up from the house to bring her to work because the parents needed the car.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I met Charlie in March when I stayed with him. So that's some of the interactions.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and when you met Donna here in Tallahassee, was Harvey always there as well, or would sometimes — people not know?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't believe Harvey was there. I don't believe Harvey was there at that time. But he was there other times.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So did it appear to you that Donna was frequently in Tallahassee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Donna was definitely frequently in Tallahassee between September and early May.
JEFFREY LACASSE: After that, I'm not aware of her being in Tallahassee.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, I think she was in Tallahassee quickly, once or twice, after that — but in terms of extended trips, there's an awful lot of "moms here for a while" going on between September and late April, early May.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And when Donna was here in town staying with Wendi, what was the purpose of the visits, if you know?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I think multiple purposes — the children was what almost everything revolved around. So spending time with the kids would be the main purpose that I was aware of.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And you said you met Charlie — where did you meet him?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Wendi and I went to Alternative Spring Break in Immokalee, Florida for Spring Break 2014. After we were done with that field trip of sorts, we went and stayed with Charlie at his house for one night. So I spent one evening with Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And did you interact at all with Donna and/or Harvey on that trip?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, they didn't attend. We didn't go there.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you ever spend time with Donna Adelson in South Florida?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So the only times you met her were here in Tallahassee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What were your interactions with Donna Adelson like?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Just a few that I recall. Sometimes they were really quick because I was just picking Wendi up. When we had dinner, we talked for maybe 5, 10, maybe 15 minutes, but it was pretty quick — just getting to know the girl who I'm interested in, her mom. So it's just that kind of thing. She excused herself from the table after, like, maybe 10, 12 minutes, something like that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was that a conversation where it was just the two of you seated at the table?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was Wendi, myself, and Donna — just a getting-to-know-you-type thing. It just ended fairly quickly.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What about Katherine Magbanua? Did you ever have an occasion to meet her?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did. She was at the dinner at Yardbird that myself, Wendi Adelson, Katie, and Charlie were at.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yeah, and that was the night that you spent in South Florida where you met Charlie, correct? Is that the only time you ever met Charlie?
JEFFREY LACASSE: One time I ever met Charlie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And do you know the date of that visit?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I believe that's March 11th, 2014.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And how was Katherine Magbanua related to the Adelson family?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She was Charlie's new girlfriend at that dinner — is how I knew her.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Your impression or knowledge — that this was the first meeting between Wendi Adelson and Katherine Magbanua?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That was my impression. There was a lot of getting-to-know-you-talk-type stuff.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, at the dinner table, did the subject of Dan Markel come up?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, I don't remember a lot of specifics, but I think it came up kind of briefly. There was a lot of talk about Wendi's book — I remember that part.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And at the dinner table, did Katherine Magbanua's ex come up at all?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Could you tell us about that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, that stood out — because Katie mentioned that she had a — her children's father was always getting in trouble with the police and had a violent criminal record. I'm paraphrasing, but it sounded like not parking tickets, it sounded pretty bad, and it stuck in my memory for that reason.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What happened after dinner?
JEFFREY LACASSE: We went back to Charlie's house on Will Harbor.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and did Katherine Magbanua go back to Charlie's house as well?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so at that time it would be just the three of you — you, Wendi, and Charlie?
JEFFREY LACASSE: And Charlie's then-roommate, Dr. Jerome Obed.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And can you describe the residence there?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, I thought it was a nice house. Had a hot tub, had a pool.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you get in the hot tub that night?
JEFFREY LACASSE: We did get in the hot tub for a while.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Who all was in the hot tub?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Myself, Charlie, Wendi, and Dr. Obed at some points. And people were in and out, but those were the four that were there.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And during that time, did Charlie Adelson make some comments against Dan Markel?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes?
JEFFREY LACASSE: He didn't like Danny. That might be understating it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yeah. Is that the most you can remember? Was that the gist?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm not downloading that exact quote at this moment. I remember he was — he was fired up. It wasn't just like "I don't like Danny." It was maybe an overprotective brother anger sort of vibe to it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did he make some other comment about wrong side of the tracks?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's kind of —
MR. ZELMAN: Objection.
JUDGE EVERETT: Overruled. You may continue with your line of inquiry, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sir, do you remember the statement that I was referencing?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, I do. There was a couple of statements in the hot tub. One was about the fact that Charlie knew people on both sides of the tracks — they hung out with professionals, dentists, doctors, etc., but he also knew, you know, was familiar, had social contacts that were in the criminal element. And he was kind of bragging. And he kind of specifically mentioned Cuban neighborhoods as a place where you would find that criminal element.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I want to ask you about an incident involving — I think the context is assessing Wendi's oldest child for gifted placement.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you know where I'm going with that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, I do.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Wendi was working to get her older son tested to see if he was gifted, to get him placed in school. This is spring 2014, and I was trying to put her in touch with some people that could do that. And we were talking about that, and she asked me when children develop autobiographical memory.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is your training or profession such that you have some knowledge that you could offer on that topic?
MR. ZELMAN: Judge, Your Honor, he has not been disclosed as an expert.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I stand to establish a foundation as to why this testimony could be given by this individual, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm not offering it for its truth, Judge. It goes to Ms. Adelson's state of mind and motive.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well. As to that purpose, I will admit it. However, as to that limited issue only can this be considered by the jury.
MR. ZELMAN: So, I mean, you're not an expert on children's autobiographical memories, are you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Not really. That's in some of the textbooks I teach out of, but I think I can keep it out of the scientific realm and explain it commonsensically, which is how I responded to Wendi.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Children at age two have amnesia, which most parents probably realize.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Between three and four, kids start to develop the ability to retain memories.
JUDGE EVERETT: As to a specific thing that goes to the state of mind of the individual you are testifying about, Mr. Lacasse, you may speak. As to your knowledge of any literature or research on this matter, I do not need you to testify on that matter.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What is your profession? What is your background?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm a professor of social work. I teach mental health courses.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so Wendi asks you what?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She asked me when kids develop memory.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At what age will kids start to remember what happened to them when they were a kid? What was your answer?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I think I said five or six.
JUDGE EVERETT: We'll take out the jury then.
JUDGE EVERETT: Mr. Lacasse, if you can step down, please. Step outside the courtroom doors. Don't discuss your testimony with anyone else.
JUDGE EVERETT: You can be seated.
JUDGE EVERETT: How long do you think it will take to find this portion of either the deposition or material provided in discovery?
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well. We'll take a recess then until 9:40.
JUDGE EVERETT: Ms. Cappleman, did you find the information that you were seeking?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir. I'm sorry. I didn't have an answer for you. The cases have so many incarnations, it's hard for me to remember who knows what. But I am conceding the violation; certainly not intentional.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I did not find it. Mr. Rashbaum did not depose this witness, so I'll move on.
JUDGE EVERETT: Well, the defense requested the court to conduct a Richardson hearing.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It's not intentional.
MR. ZELMAN: I would concede that. There are a lot of materials in here. I would just — if the state's going to move on, I don't think we need to inquire further.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Should I get the witness, Judge?
JUDGE EVERETT: One moment briefly so the record is clean on this topic. I will find there has been a discovery violation with regard to the testimony of Jeffrey Lacasse on the subject matter of what was discussed with Wendi Adelson concerning any issues as to the children's memories. I will find this was inadvertent, as there have been — I believe this is the fifth or sixth trial in this — only the fourth — I'm the fourth judge, used me — the fourth trial that has occurred under this set of facts, and there has been a multitude of discovery or interviews or depositions of this witness. But specifically as to this defendant being able to depose this witness on this topic, that did not take place by prior counsel or current counsel.
JUDGE EVERETT: I will find it is trivial and it has not had a prejudicial effect on the ability of the defense to prepare, since the state is conceding the matter and no further examination on this topic will take place. The court will give a curative instruction to the jury for them to disregard and not consider, as evidence in this matter, any testimony that has taken place concerning a conversation between Wendi Adelson and Jeffrey Lacasse as to the children's memories.
JUDGE EVERETT: You may bring in the witness.
JUDGE EVERETT: They might be using the bathroom, but once they're ready, you can come back to the witness stand, Mr. Lacasse.
JUDGE EVERETT: Do a curative instruction, even though it sounded like they weren't asking for it, and it sounds like they're in agreement with that procedure. Well, there could be an argument that it draws more attention to the information, so I just wanted to make sure that their agreement was clear for the record.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The proposed curative is acceptable.
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated. Members of the jury, before the examination of this witness continues, I am going to give you a brief instruction. The last objection that was raised by the defense, it is being sustained. You are to disregard any testimony that has taken place by this witness concerning the issues of any statements or any conversation he had with Wendi Adelson about her children's memories. You are not to consider this as a part of the evidence in this case. You may continue with your examination.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you, Judge. Around this same time frame — I guess we're talking about maybe March of '14, somewhere in there — did Wendi Adelson actually — strike that, I'm gonna move on to the coffee shop meeting. Familiar with that? The June 4th coffee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, sir. June 4th, 2014.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you have plans prior to that meeting to travel with Wendi Adelson over the time frame in which Dan Markel was ultimately killed?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, that's right. And on June 4th, I had planned to see Wendi and the kids at her house that night. Middle of the day, she called me to sort of an impromptu meeting at Red Eye over on Thomasville, and she abruptly canceled our trip for reasons that didn't make much sense.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When was the trip scheduled to happen?
JEFFREY LACASSE: The 11th to the 17th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so you would have returned home actually the day before the murder occurred.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and did she express concern about not being home in time to pick up the children?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, the reason she canceled the trip was, "I'm worried we're going to get stuck."
MR. ZELMAN: This is speculation as to her perception.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It goes to motive, Judge. I don't care if they go on a trip or not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, sir, so the reason for not going on the trip?
JEFFREY LACASSE: The reason for not going on the trip was tied up in a couple of things. First of all, all the stuff going on with Danny was a constant refrain.
JEFFREY LACASSE: But given the stuff going on with Danny, she was concerned that she might not be back in time, even though our flight was to land the day before.
JEFFREY LACASSE: And it wasn't so odd to me. It wasn't winter. We're going through — it's like LA to Atlanta to Tallahassee, leave it in the morning. I didn't see any real reason why that would be a problem.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: She would have needed to pick up the kids on July 18th, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. Yeah. She knew that then; their schedules were planned out for like months.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Okay, so you would have returned on the 17th, and she would have been picking up her children from preschool on the 18th.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, I think 5 p.m. on the 18th, which is why — I mean, I didn't object. I just said okay. I didn't make a thing out of it, but it didn't make any sense.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And that, just for clarification, that conversation occurred on June 4th.
JEFFREY LACASSE: It did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, when was the next time you saw her after that coffee shop meeting?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, so that was mid-afternoon. And in the evening, I had plans to go see her and spend time with her and the kids.
JEFFREY LACASSE: And then she had contacted me that she wasn't feeling well and I should, like, rush over there, essentially.
JEFFREY LACASSE: She had a stomach problem. So I got there as quickly as I could.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so did you go to her residence that evening?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what happened when you got there?
JEFFREY LACASSE: On the way there, I remember contacting her and asking her, "Do you want me to stop and get some stomach medicine or something like that?" and didn't — I believe she told me not to. Once I got there, she hemmed and hawed a little bit, and then eventually I left because she was a complete anxious wreck. She didn't have the flu. She didn't have food poisoning.
JEFFREY LACASSE: She was just a nervous, anxious wreck and it was affecting her stomach. So after a little while, I drove to a nearby convenience store to go get her Pepto-Bismol, which I recall because I have a credit card receipt from this random convenience store a few miles from her house.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So she was a nervous wreck that night — and did she tell you what the problem was or not?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. There's no discernible — I couldn't figure it out if she didn't tell me.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right. Was there a time when you were over at Ms. Adelson's residence and you observed that her TV was broken?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Tell me about that. When did that occur?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That would have been around the week of June 11th to 18th, somewhere in that time period. I went over to Wendi's to spend time with her and the kids, and she asked me to take a look at the television. I turned it on — she said there was a problem with the TV, so I turned it on expecting to see like input one flashing, you know, the kids pushed the wrong button or whatever. And what I'm looking at when I turn it on is a screen that's been partially shattered, that's been struck by an object. So —
MS. CAPPLEMAN: She had a broken TV. All right, and did she know — did she tell you what happened to the TV, how it got into that —
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. She kind of asked me to look into the TV, as you know. She didn't know. I looked around — it was impossible to me that — it's impossible to me that the kids would have done it. But I didn't know, you know, a better explanation at the time. So I was kind of mystified as to what happened. It looked like a human being stood — you know, between five-five and six-foot something like that — stood in front of it and hit it. That's what it looked like. But she was asking me.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so it was like an impact mark, like a round impact with spider webs?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Exactly. Then the image, the pixels are distorted — most people have probably seen this, so it's — and it wasn't completely shattered, you could sort of see what was going on in the television, but it's not a TV anybody would normally watch.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so let's move away from the TV for now. Was there a date that you had with Wendi Adelson on — it was the day before her birthday. What was the date of that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: We were scheduled to have a date — day before her birthday is April 21st. We were scheduled to have kind of a special date night that night.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Wendi didn't answer her phone, didn't answer texts, and I got so concerned about her — a few hours after the date was supposed to have started, I just drove over there to check on her, knocked on the door for a while. She finally came to the door, appeared to be intoxicated — and not just on alcohol. I mean, weary-eyed — I'm not, I'm not sure what substances, but it wasn't good. She wanted me to stay, and I was annoyed enough that I actually just left. I just — I didn't stay the night.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so I kind of got our timeline out of order, but some erratic behavior from her on April 21st and then again on June 4th.
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Right. Okay. I'm gonna approach and show you a text message that was sent on June 28th of 2014, and I've marked it as State's Exhibit 141.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Have you ever had a chance to review this text message before?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, you showed this to me last week.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And this message had never been shown to you before last week, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And it's been testified that this was from Wendi Adelson to her brother Rob Adelson, but it concerns you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is there anything factually incorrect in what Wendi Adelson is stating in that text message?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well — When she says "I haven't told Mom and Dad about me, um," — I met them multiple times. It's impossible that they didn't know we were dating. For example, I was aware that Donna wasn't thrilled that I wasn't Jewish, so that doesn't add up. This doesn't make sense to me in terms of seeing me for six or seven months.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In that text message, she's saying that you're a secret boyfriend from the parents. Were you a secret boyfriend from the parents at that time?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It's implausible. No, I don't think so.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In fact, you'd met the parents several times.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, and had conversations with them — limited conversations, but conversations. And the other part that's really significant is the kids talked about me constantly. I have all kinds of text messages and emails where Wendi's mentioning the kids are down in South Florida talking about me.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I want to draw your attention next to a disagreement that occurred with Wendi Adelson on June 29th of 2014. Do you recall that incident?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And at that time, did you confront Wendi about some suspicions you had that she was seeing other men?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, that was part of it. That was the main part of the disagreement. I also had spent the last two or three months concerned that she seemed to be stringing me along.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Where did the fight occur?
JEFFREY LACASSE: The fight occurred in Gainesville.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and I say "fight" —
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was a verbal disagreement.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It was a verbal disagreement, and "argument" is not even the right word. We just exchanged words, yeah.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yeah. Okay, and did that exchange of words lead to an awkward drive together back to Tallahassee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It did, a very awkward drive back to Tallahassee.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And that was?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's the morning of the 29th, or 30th. It was the 30th — the morning of the 30th. The morning of June 30th.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And after you parted ways, once you returned back to Tallahassee on the 30th, what was the status of your relationship over the next couple weeks?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. When we left that — when I left on the 30th, it was clear that it wasn't over, but it wasn't great that we'd had this exchange either. So over the next couple weeks, we had phone calls, text messages, video chats with the kids.
JEFFREY LACASSE: My take was, it seems like it's probably going to be okay, but I didn't know for sure.
JEFFREY LACASSE: It did string the relationship out another couple weeks when it easily could have ended.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When was the next time you saw her in person?
JEFFREY LACASSE: July 13th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so about — I guess that's the Sunday before the murder. Is that right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And where did you see her?
JEFFREY LACASSE: We went to dinner and a movie. I picked her up at her house at Aqua Ridge. We went to dinner, a movie, and then returned there.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, well, we're on the topic of Aqua Ridge. I'm going to approach and show you what's been —
JEFFREY LACASSE: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: We'll circle back to Aqua Ridge. So we're on the disagreement, didn't see her for a while, saw her on July 13th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And you were at her residence. What were y'all — what was the plan for that evening?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I didn't know. It was just to spend time together and maybe talk about the relationship some, but we had some — we were conversing, we had conversations.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Were the kids there that night?
JEFFREY LACASSE: They were not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so it was just the two of you at the residence?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Just the two of us.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and did the subject of relocation come up?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In what context?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It came up in the context of, whenever Wendi got back from Miami, she was always very upset about the fact that the relocation had previously been denied. I mean, it had been legally denied, but she wasn't over it. It was a constant refrain about how much she hated Tallahassee. So we're talking about the future of the relationship, and I'm asking, are you going to be here? Because with the constant complaining about how hard it was on her parents to transport the kids, and just the constant complaining — just thinking, is she even going to be here? Is it worth trying to push forward in the relationship?
JEFFREY LACASSE: And she said, "The only way that I'd ever relocate is if something would have to happen to Danny."
JUDGE EVERETT: Subject to the same ruling at sidebar, the objection is overruled, pending the other matters that do have to be addressed. You may continue, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Please repeat your answer.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, the only way she'd ever be able to relocate is if something happened to Danny, was the first statement.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and did she mention anything further about something happening to Danny?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, can I give the context before the next?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, so I was getting a little tired of this whole drama around the relocation. And so I pushed back on Wendi a little bit and said, like, "You're going to have to kind of make your peace with this. You're going to have to take some responsibility for this. You're linked to Dan Markel for life."
JEFFREY LACASSE: I kind of challenged her a little bit, and she said, "Well, can I tell you something confidentially?"
JEFFREY LACASSE: And I said, "Sure."
JEFFREY LACASSE: And she said, "Last summer —"
JUDGE EVERETT: Same ruling. The objection is overruled, and you may continue with your answer.
JEFFREY LACASSE: "Can I tell you something in confidence?" Yeah — after I challenged her, "Can I tell you something?" — well, "Can I tell you something in confidence?"
JEFFREY LACASSE: "Sure." Well — "Last summer, my brother looked into all options possible to take care of the Danny Markel problem, including hiring a hitman, and it would cost about $15,000."
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and when she referred to her brother, she's got two of those, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She said Charlie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and when she said Charlie looked into hiring a hitman, are you familiar with Charlie's joke?
JEFFREY LACASSE: "I looked into hiring a hitman, but got you a TV as a divorce present because it was cheaper."
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, Wendi had told me that joke a couple of times. This was not that joke.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so this was something different.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, the joke was said with levity.
JEFFREY LACASSE: It's a dark joke, but this — I found chilling. I found disturbing. It made my stomach flip. It kind of took me aback. She was dead serious when she said this. And she had asked to tell me in confidence, which you don't do before you tell a joke.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So I want to take you to the next day, then. So we're at July 14th, the Monday before the murder.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you see Wendi Adelson on that date?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. We had contact throughout the day trying to arrange some kind of date. It kind of ebbed and flowed.
JEFFREY LACASSE: But she was real enthusiastic about seeing me at one point. And then at like mid-afternoon, "Let's just meet at yoga" is what was decided. So we went to yoga.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. What happened after yoga?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, I was wondering why we were at yoga because Wendi was being very strange. I felt like the relationship was over. She wasn't feeling well.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm not a big yoga guy, so I didn't understand why we were at yoga for like 80 minutes, you know, stretching. But then when we left yoga, we barely spoke. I was just getting in a vibe that this is over. Tried to talk about the relationship, didn't go very well. It was pretty clear to me — my internal thoughts were like, well, you know, this is over. So she didn't want to spend time with me the rest of the week, so I just put my hands up like this — I remember this vividly — and just turned around and walked away.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Where were you when that was happening?
JEFFREY LACASSE: We're in the parking lot of Journey's Yoga over by Winn-Dixie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so you have your two respective vehicles there.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You're parting ways.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, what happens as you walk away?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I get about 10 to 15 feet away from her, and she calls after me. I turn around, and she had a series of detailed questions about what I would be doing on Friday.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I had a trip to Tennessee planned, and she wanted to know if I was going on that trip, and she wanted to know what route I would be taking, and if I didn't go on the trip, why wouldn't I go on the trip. And I answered the questions as best I could, but I was confused why at that moment she wanted to know the details of what I was doing on Friday when she expressly didn't want to spend time with me on Friday.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and we now know that Dan Markel was murdered on Friday.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If you had taken the trip as planned, which is as you reported to Wendi that day, what would your route have been?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I would have left my house at about 11 a.m., which Wendi knew.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'd related my plan to her earlier in the relationship.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I needed to get to Atlanta for dinner and was worried about traffic and stuff like that. So I would have left at 11, and I would have driven down.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I would have gotten to Capital Circle in Thomasville, which is close enough to Danny's house that it kind of gave me the creeps. It was kind of weird.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Okay, so physically you're saying you might have been sort of consistent with where the killers — how the killers fled town?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and after this yoga date and the discussion of your travel plans, did you get an email from Wendi?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm going to publish what's been introduced into evidence in State's — Is this the email she sent you after the yoga date?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so she's — is she breaking up with you? Is that clear?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, she's asking — well, I considered, based on our interaction, I thought this is over. I had told Wendi, if she wanted to break up with me — she doesn't like confrontation — just send me an email or text. She sends me this, which strings everything out for a week. So she's not breaking up. She's — I mean, functionally — that's — realistically, I'm not dumb. I'm thinking we're over. But she's asking for another week, which brings it to the 21st of July. And I was puzzled. I wondered what in the world is going to happen July 21st. But I just didn't respond because she asked for no contact.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so she wants to have no contact for a week, right? Okay. I was — able to find that photo I was looking for earlier. 86A.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, that's Wendi Adelson's residence on Aqua Ridge, and that's what I looked like when we were dating.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Publish?
JUDGE EVERETT: You may.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It's — I've blurred the boys' faces, but this is how the residence at Aqua Ridge appeared.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And the kids' art that's shown on the wall here — was that present during the time you were dating Wendi Adelson?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was it something that — like, you know, art would come down and other art would go up, or was it pretty fixed?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was — maybe some art would get added, but I never saw any come down. Until July 14th — 13th, sorry. July 13th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: July 13th, you noticed that the art had been taken down?
JEFFREY LACASSE: We walked into the kitchen, and Wendi was pulling art off the wall. The only time I'd ever seen her do that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And I want to ask you about — I've nicknamed it "the celebration dinner." Are you familiar with that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, could you tell the jury about that, please?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, um —
MR. ZELMAN: Objection, Your Honor — calls for hearsay.
JUDGE EVERETT: I understand the court's prior ruling.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Wendi and I reestablished phone contact about 10 days after the murder.
JEFFREY LACASSE: She called me and we had a couple — three or four — phone calls, and one of them she related that her and Charlie had gone to what Charlie called a celebration dinner, and at that dinner Charlie said something to her — she didn't specify what it was — and she spontaneously vomited all over the table.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Are you aware, sir, that you were suggested as a potential suspect?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Where were you when Dan Markel was murdered?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I was in Tennessee, because I had left on my trip the night before.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So you changed your plan?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I changed my plans at the last minute.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You provided law enforcement with some receipts and things to prove that you were in Tennessee at the time?
JEFFREY LACASSE: All that, and I got a flat tire, so I ended up getting videotaped at a Kmart, and I know the TPD used that to exclude me with the timestamp on the surveillance footage.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At some point did you learn that the killers came to Tallahassee in June, not just in July?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, when the arrests were made and the documents were released, I learned that, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And did you put together some facts about your travel plans that day that could have potentially made you a suspect on that trip as well, if the murder had happened as —
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, that Friday I was scheduled to go to a business trip in Gainesville, leaving at 11 a.m. So two times in 2014, I leave town on a trip by myself in my car, and both times hit men are in town trying to kill Danny Markel — once successfully, obviously.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Are you familiar with the type of vehicle that was originally rented by the killers in June to make that June trip?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was that significant to you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, I mean, this is long after this all happened, and this is — I'm learning this from court proceedings in 2016 — but when I heard they rented a gray Altima initially, I had a 2004 Nissan Sentra. That freaked me out, because that's about as close as you were going to get to my car on the rental market.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm going to show you what I've marked as state's demonstrative exhibit. Do you recognize this exhibit?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, ma'am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Is this the make and model of the — it's not the actual rental car, but the make and model of the rental car compared to the make and model of your vehicle?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, my car's right on top. That looks just like the car I had at the time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Permission to publish, Jean, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: You may.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May I have one more moment to confer please?
JUDGE EVERETT: Go ahead.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No further questions.
JUDGE EVERETT: Cross-examination?
MR. ZELMAN: Yes, Your Honor. Just a moment.
MR. ZELMAN: Good morning.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Good morning.
MR. ZELMAN: And it's Dr. Lacasse, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Jack is fine.
MR. ZELMAN: Mr. Lacasse is fine.
MR. ZELMAN: You testified that it was your understanding that my client, Donna Adelson, was aware of the motion that the state has called the grandmother motion.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. Do you know how she took that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was a — I'm hearing this stuff from Wendi. Okay.
MR. ZELMAN: Well, do you know how she took it?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I mean, I wasn't there to observe her reaction. The whole family was upset about every one of these motions, was my impression — information coming from Wendi.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. And so the only person that you spoke with about how the family took things was — from Wendi, putting Charlie's aside, aside from Charlie in the house, aside from Charlie in the hot tub, it was all through Wendi?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct, sir.
MR. ZELMAN: Isn't it true that you found Wendi — let me find the exact quote — didn't you find Wendi to be a deeply deceitful person?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, depending on the topic, I mean, that's true. Um, but a lot of the stuff she told me about her family was later released, and, you know, in evidence. I'm talking about the kids getting —
MR. ZELMAN: Your Honor, I'd move to strike that response.
JUDGE EVERETT: Stay — Mr. Lacasse, you are only to respond to the question that you are asked. Members of the jury, the portion of the answer that were non-responsive, you were not to consider. You may continue.
MR. ZELMAN: Thank you, Your Honor. You yourself do not have any personal knowledge as to how my client Donna Adelson took the grandmother motion, do you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No.
MR. ZELMAN: Isn't it true that you only had limited small talk, uh, with my client Donna Adelson?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
MR. ZELMAN: Now let's talk about the damage to the television that you observed in June of 2014. Can you tell us again how you describe that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, though, there was a spider web pattern, like, in the center of the screen, and it radiates out outwards. Anywhere it's been cracked, it will pixelate, so you can see what's going on, you can track it, but it's not pleasant, and you would never watch that TV.
JEFFREY LACASSE: And we watched a whole movie on that TV at Wendi's insistence, which was why I remember this was a very strange evening.
MR. ZELMAN: Didn't you suggest going to watch the movie on another TV?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, I did. There was a perfectly good TV in the other room. That's correct. And she made a fuss.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I tried to respect Wendi's boundaries — her house, her kids. So she didn't have to make a fuss. I was — it's an awkward situation dating someone who has, you know, two kids, so I'm not insisting on anything, but the kids were whining about the broken TV.
MR. ZELMAN: That is correct, sir. Made it difficult to even really watch or enjoy the movie?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's right.
MR. ZELMAN: Could you tell us about how big that impact was? This sized adult or child?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't remember with that precision.
MR. ZELMAN: And and you testified about a statement that Wendi Adelson said to you on July 13th of 2014, that she wanted to say to you in confidence?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MR. ZELMAN: And it was that her brother looked into hiring —
JEFFREY LACASSE: Her brother Charlie.
MR. ZELMAN: Her brother Charlie?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, sir. Yes, sir, that's correct.
MR. ZELMAN: Just a moment, Your Honor.
MR. ZELMAN: Nothing further, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: You may step down, Mr. Lacasse.
JUDGE EVERETT: Redirect examination.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, Your Honor.