7.Jeffrey Lacasse — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross (Recall)
295 linesJUDGE EVERETT: You remain under subpoena.
Please call your next witness.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Jeffrey Lacasse.
JUDGE EVERETT: Mr. Lacasse, you remain under oath. You may be seated.
WHEREUPON, JEFFREY LACASSE - RECALLED was called as a witness, having previously been sworn to speak the truth, whole truth, and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Mr. Lacasse, I want to take you back to July 13, 2014. This is going to be the Sunday before the homicide that we're here about.
Did you see Wendi Adelson that evening at her residence here in Tallahassee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. After we returned from dinner and a movie, we went back to her residence, yes, ma'am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And at some point that evening, did the issue of the relocation battle that was going on back in the summer of 2013 come up?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is that the issue we've already touched on which has to do with her wanting to move to South Florida with the children and filing a petition to do so in the courts?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's right; and by extension, the issue of being stuck in Tallahassee.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And while discussing that issue, did Ms. Adelson make some statements to you about her brother, Charlie?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what were those statements?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She asked to speak to me confidentially, and in a very serious tone of voice, told me that Charlie had investigated all possible options to take care of the problem of Danny Markel, including hiring a hitman which would cost about $15,000.
And I later revised that and thought maybe it was $50,000, but the dollar amount was the only thing in question. She definitely said that Charles Adelson had looked into hiring a hitman to kill Danny Markel.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when did she say Mr. Adelson had looked into hiring a hitman?
JEFFREY LACASSE: when the relocation was denied the previous summer.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right. And the dollar amount, so she either said 15 or 50; you're not sure which?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And when she said this, what was her demeanor like?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She was very serious.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So definitely not the -- to be confused with the Tv joke?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. I'd heard that joke repeatedly. I knew that joke. This was something very different. This was chilling, a little scary, made my stomach flip. I found it disturbing. The joke was said in a lighthearted manner, and this was not said in that way. This was serious and said confidentially.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Thank you. And I want to -- well, okay.
I think we should go from there to the next day, which is going to be July 14, 2014, the Monday before the murder.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, ma'am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you see wendi Adelson on that day?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. She -- I can't remember if I contacted her or she contacted me, but she was excited to see me. And I wasn't so sure about that, because the night before, we'd had a awkward conversation at the conclusion of that night, and I had told her if she didn't want to do this anymore, that she could just send me a text and I wouldn't, you know, take any offense. We would just, you know, break up. So I didn't get that text. Instead, I talked to Wendi Adelson and she was excited to see me.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So what did you do?
JEFFREY LACASSE: well, then she had to call me back, and it went from enthusiastic -- her enthusiasm about seeing me to, Let's just meet at yoga tonight, go in separate cars. So it was a real shift in about 30 minutes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you go to yoga?
JEFFREY LACASSE: we did. we went to yoga.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And after yoga, was there a discussion about your relationship and the status of your relationship?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, a very brief one. I mean, yoga is not a great place to talk, obviously. So while we were sitting there, she seemed very cold, and I kind of got the feeling that it was over, that this was it. So as we walked to the car, I tried to talk to her about the relationship, and that didn't go well. And so I just kind of put up my hands and -- and walked away, feeling sad that this was it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And as you walked away, was that the end or was there more conversation after you began to walk away?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. She called out to me, and I walked back towards her. And she was deeply curious -- well, during that -- let me back up slightly. During that conversation, she -- she didn't have any interest in spending any time with me for the rest of the week, so it kind of confirmed, like, you know, this is over. But then when she called me back, she had a series of detailed questions about what I would be doing on Friday.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And Friday is going to be July 18, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And that's the date of the homicide?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's exactly right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What were her inquiries of you regarding that date?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I had a trip planned to Tennessee. She was aware that I was planning to leave about 11 a.m. on Friday. I needed to get through Atlanta for an early dinner, so with traffic; she knew I was departing at 11. And at the yoga studio in the parking lot, she had asked if I was still going; if I didn't go, why not; what route I would be taking; a lot -- a lot of bizarre amount of interest in that trip that didn't make sense to me at the time, given that she didn't want to spend time with me.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And how does it make sense to you now?
JEFFREY LACASSE: well, if I had left on my trip at the scheduled time that she'd known about for quite a while, I would have driven pretty close to Danny Markel's house about the same time as -- of the murder in a similar looking car to the suspect vehicle.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what type of vehicle did you drive?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I drove a 2004 Nissan Sentra that was silver/metallic gray color.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: so if you had followed your original plans, you would have been passing by the Markel residence, or nearby there, around the same time as the killers were fleeing?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. I would have been at Capital Circle and Thomasville, so I would have been on the same cell tower, for example. I think my life could have been pretty complicated, had I taken my original plans.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So you didn't, I guess, take the original plans?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, I did not. I -- I made a last-moment, last-minute decision the night before to leave Thursday night instead. I had not informed Ms. Adelson about that because we weren't speaking. Actually, I don't know that anyone -- for sure, that anyone in Tallahassee knew I had changed my plans. Just the people at the other end.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So you were actually in Tennessee at the time of the homicide?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And when you were -- we've heard you were called in as a potential suspect, and apparently named by a Jane McPherson. Do you know who that is?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: who is that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That was a friend of Wendi Adelson's, and she was a doctoral student in our program. I had a -- not much of a relationship with her, just kind of a working relationship. we worked on a couple projects together, but I didn't know her very well at all.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: But someone that knew that you were -- had been dating wendi?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. I think she was a confidant of Wendi Adelson's, yes, for sure.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So you get called in. And were you able to provide documentation to show that you were in Tennessee and not in Tallahassee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. I was excluded fairly quickly because investigators found a Kmart surveillance footage of me at a Kmart in Tennessee using my credit card and my cell phone showing me there shortly after the murder. So it was impossible that I was the shooter.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And then was there also some similar type coincidences around the time of the trip that the killers made in June?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. On June 6 I had a business trip to Gainesville, and I departed at 11 a.m. on a Friday, June 6, which Ms. Adelson would have known about by March. So really, I take two trips out of Tallahassee in my car the whole spring and summer semester. Both times, hitmen tried to kill Danny Markel.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Any further contact with wendi after the yoga date?
JEFFREY LACASSE: we -- about ten days after the murder, she reached out through a mutual friend, and we had a few phone calls.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And during one of those phone calls, did you learn about a dinner where wendi had become ill at the table?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, I did learn about that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what did you learn about that dinner?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That she went out to dinner with Charlie for what he called a celebration dinner. He said something to her. She spontaneously vomited on the table.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And this would have been within how much time after the homicide?
JEFFREY LACASSE: within a few weeks.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was it specified that the celebration was in reference to Dan Markel's death as opposed to anything else?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It wasn't specified.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. But whatever it was, that's the dinner where she vomited?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's right. That's right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: One moment, please.
JUDGE EVERETT: Go ahead.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No further questions.
JUDGE EVERETT: Cross-examination?
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. RASHBAUM:
MR. RASHBAUM: Let's shift gears a teeny bit.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Okay.
MR. RASHBAUM: when you and Ms. Adelson were dating, there were occasions when she would drive, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: Did she have a good sense of direction?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't know.
MR. RASHBAUM: You're aware that when she was married to -- she lived in Professor Markel's? She lived in the house on Trescott, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: And when you were dating Wendi, would she often use Trescott as a shortcut to get from one place to another?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She used it a few times when I was in the car, if that's what you're -- you're asking. She did that on June 27, the day we departed to Gainesville at 11 a.m. on a Friday.
MR. RASHBAUM: I think you said in one of your interviews that she would do that at least a hundred times, drive by the house?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That was a figure of speech.
MR. RASHBAUM: Now, you mentioned -- let's start with the joke, the bad joke.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: You mentioned this Tv joke, how it was lighthearted. Bad humor, certainly, in the context of what happened, but it was a joke?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. It was dark humor, I would say, but it was clearly a joke, yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: And do you recall that joke being given at that Yardbird dinner?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't.
MR. RASHBAUM: Could it have been given at that Yardbird dinner?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It could have but TI don't recall it. And TI actually think I might remember that --
MR. RASHBAUM: I'm sure you do.
JEFFREY LACASSE: -- given what happened.
MR. RASHBAUM: I think one thing that has been established is you believe that Wendi Adelson tried to frame you for Professor Markel's murder, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm suspicious that there was an effort made in that -- that way, yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: And so that has affected your viewpoint, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Sure.
MR. RASHBAUM: well, let's talk about your viewpoint. we have to go a little bit back and repeat a couple things to put it in context.
So you meet with Charlie Adelson. He tells you that he's in the -- he's friends with people in the criminal element. You say thanks for a great meeting, correct? Send him a nice text?
JEFFREY LACASSE: The next day I sent him a text, yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: You don't go to the police?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, I don't go to the police.
MR. RASHBAUM: You then hear that Charlie's made a joke many times about this TV being cheaper than hiring a hitman?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Heard the joke twice.
MR. RASHBAUM: Okay. You don't go to the police?
MR. RASHBAUM: Then in June, at a time when wendi Adelson is breaking up with you, she sits you down and she says, I have to confide the biggest secret in my life that a year ago, my brother actually looked into hiring a hitman. That's your testimony here today, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: You said in June, sir?
MR. RASHBAUM: In June. I'm sorry, in -- yes. I'm sorry, in July.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Can you -- can you restate that? I'm sorry.
MR. RASHBAUM: Yeah. I'll do it again.
JUDGE EVERETT: Same volume?
MR. RASHBAUM: I'll try to keep it lower this time.
BY MR. RASHBAUM:
MR. RASHBAUM: In July of 2014, about a week before the murder when you're breaking up with Wendi Adelson, or things are seriously not good, she sits you down and she says, Jeffrey, I've got to confide in you. My brother actually looked into hiring a hitman. That's your testimony here today?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, she didn't sit me down. She said it in passing. She had a habit of blurting out things that weren't in her own self-interest. But she did do that. She did make that statement, yes, sir.
MR. RASHBAUM: And it was chilling to you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was.
MR. RASHBAUM: Unlike the joke, you thought it was real?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was real, yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: Did you go to the police?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did not.
MR. RASHBAUM: And then you break up?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Kind of. She -- she strung me along for another week, as you know. Mostly, yeah, but kind of.
MR. RASHBAUM: well, the murder happens and you get called in as a suspect of the murder?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Right.
MR. RASHBAUM: And you're upset at that point?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, I was upset.
MR. RASHBAUM: And you have a first interview with the police, and then you have a second interview with the police?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: And during the second interview with the police, you talked solely about wendi Adelson?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, I think that's right. I felt like I needed to -- said they need to look at Wendi Adelson as well. That was the point of that talk, yes, sir.
MR. RASHBAUM: That was the point of that talk?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: And you even -- you don't mention, actually, charlie Adelson at all in that second interview?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Already had done so. So, yes, sir, correct.
MR. RASHBAUM: So that second interview, you talk just about Wendi Adelson. And, in fact, you're so uncomfortable in the interview, you tell the police that. You say, I'm so uncomfortable. And Detective Isom asks you why. Do you recall that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It wasn't Detective Isom.
MR. RASHBAUM: Okay. I'm sorry. The detective who was interviewing you asked you why?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't -- you have to remind me on that.
MR. RASHBAUM: well, let me remind you what you said. You said, Because it's hard for me, because if she would take me back right now, I would go back to her.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. I was still under her spell, to some degree. I was -- I would say I was fairly pathetic at that point. I would acknowledge that, yeah.
MR. RASHBAUM: So let me understand this, because I want to make sure I've got it right. I don't want to put words in your mouth.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Sure.
MR. RASHBAUM: wendi Adelson has told you that her brother looked into hiring a hitman sometime in 2013. You -- he gets murdered.
JEFFREY LACASSE: He does.
MR. RASHBAUM: You go to an interview. And during that interview, you're still thinking about staying with wendi Adelson. You don't want to talk badly about her because you still want to be with her.
JEFFREY LACASSE: You're talking about the July 23 interview specifically?
MR. RASHBAUM: Yes.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. It had only been a week. It was still pretty fresh. I was still pretty mixed up. That's right.
MR. RASHBAUM: Okay. Let's see how mixed up you were in -- after that.
So then you're clearly broken up at that point. we can agree, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Actually, I would -- I would say yes, functionally. But I testified before that Ms. Adelson and I had conversations in August where she behaved as if we were still together. And we had a conversation that finally ended it initiated by me. Now, practically, we were broken up.
MR. RASHBAUM: You never dated -- you never went on a date with her again, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Never saw her again, other than in a courtroom, right.
MR. RASHBAUM: Fair enough. Fair enough.
Then she tells you, according to you, that my client, Charlie Adelson, says that she had a celebration dinner with Charlie and that the celebration dinner was about the murder of Professor Markel?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't recall saying that last part.
MR. RASHBAUM: But that's how you took it, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I worried that was the case. I told the police, and my understanding is Wendi conceded she threw up on the dinner table.
MR. RASHBAUM: Do you know that the first time you told the police that was in March of 2015?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I do know that.
MR. RASHBAUM: So what happened in September of '14? What happened in October of '14? What happened in November of '14? what happened in December of '14, January of '15, February of '15? You still didn't think that was important to tell the police?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm happy to answer that. I think you deserve an explanation on that. I -- you may have noticed in my March 6, 2015 interview I come in with notes, big pile of notes. Those notes are written in July and August. They're written pretty quick after the murder.
I didn't come in right away partially because I was scared of your client. I was scared of the repercussions if I went on the record further about my suspicions. So I was reluctant to come back in, because I was, frankly, scared.
MR. RASHBAUM: Oh, I get it. You were -- you were -- you were scared of him in August of '14 but you weren't scared of him in -- in March of 2015?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. I decided to man up; decided it was a homicide and needed to man up. That's the decision I came to.
MR. RASHBAUM: Right. You weren't scared to tell them that my client had actually looked into a hitman a year earlier. That didn't scare you. You could tell them that in July.
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. I was -- I was --
MR. RASHBAUM: Hold on, sir. Let me ask the question.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Fair enough.
MR. RASHBAUM: In July of 2014, you told police that Charlie Adelson, you heard, actually looked at hiring a hitman. You weren't scared to tell them that.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I asked for police protection. I was scared.
MR. RASHBAUM: You told them that in July of 2014 --
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MR. RASHBAUM: -- isn't that correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. In the same conversation, I said, Can I get some assurances? Can I get some protection? I have something I want to tell you. I'm scared to tell you.
MR. RASHBAUM: But you were too scared to tell them about a celebration dinner comment, and you waited almost half a year to tell them?
JEFFREY LACASSE: well, I -- I did wait a half a year to tell them, but the notes I brought in were written right after that interview. I also wanted to get my thoughts together, because I thought this day might come and I wanted -- in those first two interviews, there was a lot going on. It was pretty traumatic. So I wanted to collect my thoughts, so that's what I was doing; in addition to being pretty frightened and having to get over that idea.
MR. RASHBAUM: Isn't it true that those comments never happened, and you're upset because you believe that this family tried to frame you for murder?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Everything I'm saying is true.
MR. RASHBAUM: I'm sure it is.
MR. RASHBAUM: May I have a moment, Your Honor?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Move to strike the "I'm sure it is" comment.
MR. RASHBAUM: I'll withdraw it.
JUDGE EVERETT: It's withdrawn.
Please disregard, members of the jury.
MR. RASHBAUM: I have no further comments for this witness, or questions.
JUDGE EVERETT: Redirect examination?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: This may seem like a fine point but I want to make sure it's crystal clear.
when Mr. Rashbaum was asking you about the hot tub conversation, Mr. Rashbaum said that his client said that he was friends with people in the criminal element. Is that exactly what was said?
JEFFREY LACASSE: The word I recall is he had connections and friends on both sides of the tracks.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Connections to --
JEFFREY LACASSE: Criminal element. And, particularly, it was the Cuban neighborhood comment that I repeated to the TPD later.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Gotcha.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Actually, on July 21, first interview, I mentioned that comment.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. How many pages of notes do you have in reference to this case?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Like, right now or over the last nine years?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I mean kind of over the last nine years.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. I'm a researcher by training. I'm an analytic person by nature. So those six months, I was pretty obsessive. I was reviewing every text message, every e-mail, writing, writing, writing. I condensed it down, and I think if you watch the videotape, you would see me bring in three, four, five pages. But I would say I wrote probably a hundred pages before I came in to see them the third time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Going through every receipt --
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- every detail?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Partially out of what? What motivation?
JEFFREY LACASSE: well, pretty traumatic, so fear was part of it. Like, if they can catch the people that did this, I'll be safe. That was a big piece of it. Also, this was a brutal murder and I wanted to see justice done, and I did not want to leave something sitting on the shelf. If I was in the possession of something that could help, I wanted to help.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And you did -- isn't it true that you didn't know what was going to end up being important out of all the nuggets you dug out of the phone and everywhere else?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I had no idea. And I also told them repeatedly, I hope and pray this wasn't Wendi and Charlie Adelson. But just in case, here's the stuff I have.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Mr. Rashbaum asked you about why didn't you go to the police when you learned that Mr. Adelson had, in fact, looked into hiring a hitman. This was -- this -- just to reiterate, this statement was made the Monday before the murder; is that right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And that's the statement that -- where Wendi's relaying it to you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So that's going to be in 2014?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And she's making a statement about something that occurred in what year?
JEFFREY LACASSE: 2013.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. why didn't you go to the police with this information?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Because it was a past tense thing she was reporting. I did not sense there was a present danger. I didn't know hitmen had already visited Tallahassee. I didn't realize it was an active murder plot.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In hindsight, should you have gone to the police with this information?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: One moment, please.
Nothing else, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: Mr. Lacasse, you may step down.
Mr. Rashbaum, did you have something that you needed to raise?
MR. RASHBAUM: May we go sidebar briefly?
JUDGE EVERETT: Approach.
Please remain on the stand for now, sir.
(Bench conference held as follows:)
JUDGE EVERETT: Go ahead.
MR. RASHBAUM: Judge, I'm going to make a Richardson application and ask that he be kept on subpoena. We have not gotten any notes that he has -- he just testified that he has notes and notes. we have not received any of those notes. He's a State witness, so I'm requesting those notes, and I would like him to be able to be recalled if I find something in those notes that I think is necessary to Mr. Adelson's defense.
JUDGE EVERETT: Ms. Cappleman?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I don't have possession of those. I can inquire of the witness whether he's retained them.
JUDGE EVERETT: Please do so. And then we'll have the Richardson inquiry.
(Bench conference concluded.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May the witness be released at this time, or excused from the stand?
JUDGE EVERETT: Did you have any further inquiry for him, Ms. Cappleman? Or not --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, sir. I can do that --
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- out of court.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well. You may step down, Mr. Lacasse.
MR. RASHBAUM: Judge, if he could just be kept on.
JUDGE EVERETT: You remain under subpoena, sir. You may be recalled at some point during the trial.
Members of the jury, we're going to take a brief break. The bailiff will escort you back to the jury room.
(Jury exits.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated.
Mr. Rashbaum, you were asking for a Richardson inquiry concerning the notes at this point?
MR. RASHBAUM: Well, I think what may make sense first, with all respect, is maybe let them just ask him whether he has the notes first and whether they can get them, rather than do an inquiry. I don't think the State has done anything wrong.
JUDGE EVERETT: Well, I think that directly goes to factor one, whether there is a violation, I guess.
MR. RASHBAUM: I don't think there's a violation, but I think I'm entitled to the notes if he has them, and then I -- we can recall him.
JUDGE EVERETT: Very well. Does your client need to use the restroom or take a break?
MS. MEYERS: Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: All right. we'll take a ten-minute break and we'll go back on at 3:40.
Ms. Cappleman, how many -- how many more witnesses do you plan to call before --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I have two, Your Honor, but we can see how long the next one takes and decide from there.
JUDGE EVERETT: Okay. 3:40 to start again.
(A recess in the proceeding.)
BAILIFF: All rise. Court is back in session.
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone may be seated.
MS. DUGAN: Judge, Ms. Cappleman just ran to the restroom. She'll be back in just a minute.
(A pause in the proceeding.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So, Judge, the plan is Mr. Rashbaum would like to inquire of the witness about the notes, and we figured we'll do that now since he's here.
JUDGE EVERETT: Without the jury or with?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: with.
JUDGE EVERETT: Okay.
MR. RASHBAUM: It'll be quick, Your Honor, I promise.
JUDGE EVERETT: One question that becomes nine.
MR. RASHBAUM: I didn't say that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It's going to go something like this: Notes.
MR. RASHBAUM: Louder, please.
JUDGE EVERETT: I'm going to put you on a pitch count with these questions pretty soon.
BAILIFF: All rise. Jury entering the courtroom.
(Jury enters.)
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone may be seated.
Members of the jury, the defense is going to have a very brief recross of Mr. Lacasse.
RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. RASHBAUM:
MR. RASHBAUM: Mr. Lacasse, those notes, pages and pages of notes, did you provide them to the prosecutors?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. They were destroyed. I went -- I used them to guide my interviews with investigators and then I destroyed them.
MR. RASHBAUM: You destroyed them?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: why'd you destroy them?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't know they would have been any use to anyone else. They were just really talking points for me. we went through every single thing on my notes. It was on videotape. Then I got rid of the notes.
MR. RASHBAUM: So when you were on the videotape, you were reading your notes?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I was using them as prompts to remember to talk about each thing. The investigator guided the interview so sometimes we didn't stick straight to them, but I made sure everything on the notes got discussed with the investigator.
MR. RASHBAUM: But we wouldn't know that because we can't see them today, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. But you can watch the videotape of my interview with Craig Isom and see what's on the notes.
MR. RASHBAUM: Oh, I can see the -- actually the writing on that videotape?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I guess not, but that's the -- that's the material that was covered.
MR. RASHBAUM: Sir, truth is you destroyed those notes and we can't review them, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: No further questions.
JUDGE EVERETT: Re-redirect, Ms. Cappleman?
FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was there any law or instruction from a law enforcement officer requiring you to do something with your personal notes?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. I don't think I even needed to create notes. I chose to, to organize my thoughts to talk to Investigator Isom, but it was to help me make sure I covered what I wanted to cover. And, of course, he ended up asking most of the questions anyway. That's how it works.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And everything in the notes is included in the interviews?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: which was provided to law -- to us?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Nothing further. Thank you.
JUDGE EVERETT: You may step down, sir.
Please call your next witness.