6.Richard Shagran — Direct/Cross/Redirect
133 linesJUDGE EVERETT: Please call your next witness.
MR. ZELMAN: The defense would call Richard Schagrin.
JUDGE EVERETT: Good afternoon, sir.
ANN ELIZABETH CUNNINGHAM: Good afternoon.
JUDGE EVERETT: Please raise your right hand.
ANN ELIZABETH CUNNINGHAM: Yes, sir.
whereupon, RICHARD SCHAGRIN was called as a witness, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
JUDGE EVERETT: You may take your seat. Please adjust the microphone as you need to.
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Thank you.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELMAN:
MR. ZELMAN: Good afternoon, sir. Can you please introduce yourself to the jury?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: My name is Richard Schagrin.
MR. ZELMAN: Mr. Schagrin, how do you know my client, Donna Adelson?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: I met them 37, 38 years ago. They're best friends. The wife was the president and CEO of a nonprofit. I was chairman of the board.
MR. ZELMAN: And you grew close with Donna and her husband, Harvey Adelson?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: when I first met my wife 36 years ago, we formed a gourmet club, and they were part of the gourmet club. And we met probably every two to three months. And then as the years progressed, became friendlier, and went on a number of vacations with them.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. You said "gourmet club"?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Gourmet dinners at people's houses.
MR. ZELMAN: Now, are you married, sir?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: I am.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. And what does your wife do for a living?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: She's an attorney.
MR. ZELMAN: what kind of attorney?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Her specialty is real estate, estate, corporate, and bankruptcy.
MR. ZELMAN: Estate planning?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Yes.
MR. ZELMAN: Now, did you speak with Donna or Harvey on the day that Charlie was convicted?
MR. ZELMAN: How about the next day?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Yes.
MR. ZELMAN: without telling us what they said, did you and your wife go to their residence in Miami?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Yes.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. And when you got there, can you describe Donna for us?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: She was distraught.
MR. ZELMAN: And what about Harvey?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Harvey was, like, in shock.
MR. ZELMAN: Now, prior to this, you indicated that you had traveled with my client and her husband. Did you travel extensively on your own?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: well, we went on cruises, and then we did a -- there was 13 of us, did a -- I guess, two weeks in Israel.
MR. ZELMAN: were you somewhat savvier than they when it comes to booking travel?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Oh, yeah. I've been to 75 countries around the ~world.
MR. ZELMAN: And did you -- were you asked to assist them in any way on November 7th of 2023?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Yes.
MR. ZELMAN: And specifically, what were you asked to do?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Initially, I helped Donna with the visa. And then when we were done applying for the visa, Donna took Susan to show her the dress that she bought for L.A.'s bar mitzvah. And then she asked Harvey to sit down with me and make plane reservations.
MR. ZELMAN: when you sat down to make -- to assist with the reservations, what did you discover?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: The ironic thing was that the round trip was a fraction more than one way, and I suggested, since you don't know when you're coming back until sometime in January, you know, book a one-way. And I remember commenting to Harvey, I said, I would be willing to bet it's cheaper to fly from vietnam to the United States than it is from the United States to Vietnam.
MR. ZELMAN: Now, let's back up a little bit. Let's talk about the visa. were there options that were given when selecting which visa to apply for?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: To my recollection, there was only two options, a 30-day or a 90-day.
MR. ZELMAN: Do you know why the 90-day was selected?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: well, I said, they didn't know how long they were going to be gone.
MR. ZELMAN: And do you remember if the visa that was applied for only allowed them to come into the country once, or did it allow them to come into the country multiple times?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: I'm not aware.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. Now, you indicated that they were coming back for their grandson's bar mitzvah?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Yes.
MR. ZELMAN: Okay. why -- if you know, why were they wanting to get out of town?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: well, unfortunately, they were berated and barraged by the media. And fortunately, they lived in a condo, so they didn't let them in. And they were just -- they were afraid to leave the building.
MR. ZELMAN: To your knowledge, had the Adelsons been to Vietnam in the past?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Yes.
MR. ZELMAN: And they found it to be relaxing?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: To my knowledge. I was there. I thought it was a great country, great people, great food.
MR. ZELMAN: Now, although you are the one that suggested the one-way ticket, who booked the flight?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Harvey.
MR. ZELMAN: To your knowledge, were they free to travel?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: They told us when we got there that their attorney said they had no restrictions in traveling.
MR. ZELMAN: Can you describe the type of mother and grandmother that you observed Donna to be?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: well, Donna was the ultimate Jewish mother, not unlike my wife, that was very involved in their children and grandchildren's lives. I think Donna maybe was a little more involved with her grandchildren because of the situation of the grandsons losing their father, wendi working, and also they lived close by Donna and Harvey in South Beach.
MR. ZELMAN: Am I hearing you correctly, you would describe Donna as the typical Jewish grandmother?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: More than typical.
MR. ZELMAN: And a typical Jewish mother?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Yes.
MR. ZELMAN: At the time that you were assisting them on November 7th of 2023 with the travel, had they decided when they were coming back from vietnam?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: They were undecided, other than the fact that they were going to -- whether it was prior to the bar mitzvah or just before the bar mitzvah, they didn't know how long they were going to be gone.
MR. ZELMAN: But they were coming back for the bar mitzvah?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Oh, definitely. They wouldn't miss it for the world.
MR. ZELMAN: Just a moment, Your Honor.
Nothing further, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: Cross-examination?
CROSS- EXAMINATION BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sir, at the time that the travel was booked, the bar mitzvah was less than 90 days away, right?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: It was in January.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you recall giving a deposition? It was by Zoom, but I was present, August 29th, 2024?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Vaguely.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And in that deposition, weren't you asked, So did you make any of the decisions when to travel or how to travel, or were you just the conduit to the technology?
And your answer was, The conduit for the technology.
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: But today you're saying you're the one that suggested that they fly one-way?
MR. ZELMAN: Objection, Your Honor. Improper impeachment.
JUDGE EVERETT: Overruled.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Isn't that right?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: well, to me, that's part of being the conduit, just suggesting.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You were there because you were more computer savvy than Harvey or Donna, right?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: I was there that day?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir. To help with the computer, is what you said in the deposition.
RICHARD SHAGRAN: well, once we got there, I was there because my wife had done estate planning for them.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. But what you did in reference to the travel planning was help with the computer?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Because you were more computer savvy than these two?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: But today, you're saying you suggested the one-way flight, right?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Yeah, I just offered my suggestion.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And you said that Donna Adelson is a typical Jewish grandmother. Does a typical Jewish grandmother suggest dressing her grandchildren up in Nazi uniforms?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Not to my knowledge.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No further questions.
JUDGE EVERETT: Redirect examination?
MR. ZELMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELMAN:
MR. ZELMAN: would you say that you are more travel savvy than Donna and Harvey Adelson?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: I would say yes.
MR. ZELMAN: And when you were deposed on August 29th of 2024, did Ms. Cappleman ask you if you made any suggestions about a one-way ticket or a round-trip ticket?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: I don't remember.
MR. ZELMAN: would it be helpful if I showed you a copy of your deposition transcript?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Surely.
MR. ZELMAN: I'm going to show page 11, lines 12 through 17.
JUDGE EVERETT: Please approach.
RICHARD SHAGRAN: You want me to read which one?
BY MR. ZELMAN:
MR. ZELMAN: If you could just read page 11, which is where you're on, lines 12 through 17.
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Twelve. Question. Okay --
MR. ZELMAN: No, no, no.
JUDGE EVERETT: Read it to yourself.
BY MR. ZELMAN:
MR. ZELMAN: To yourself.
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Oh, I'm sorry.
Okay.
MR. ZELMAN: Did Ms. Cappleman ask if you made any decisions?
MR. ZELMAN: well, she asked if you were -- if you made decisions, but you did not make decisions, did you?
MR. ZELMAN: You made suggestions?
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Yes.
MR. ZELMAN: Nothing further.
JUDGE EVERETT: will this witness need to be retained, or is he released?
MR. ZELMAN: He's released, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: Have a good day, sir.
RICHARD SHAGRAN: Thank you, sir.