Mary Hull — Direct/Cross/Redirect
842 linesJUDGE EVERETT: Everyone but the witness can be seated.
JUDGE EVERETT: Please raise your right hand, ma'am.
JUDGE EVERETT: Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth?
JUDGE EVERETT: You may take your seat.
JUDGE EVERETT: Please speak loudly and clearly.
MARY HULL: My name is Mary Hull.
MARY HULL: It's M-A-R-Y, H-U-L-L.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And where do you currently work?
MARY HULL: I currently work at the Attorney General's Office.
MS. DUGAN: And where did you work when you became involved in this case back in the summer of 2016?
MARY HULL: Worked for the Department of Financial Services in the Office of Fiscal Integrity.
MS. DUGAN: And what did you do there?
MARY HULL: I was a financial investigator.
MS. DUGAN: What were your duties as a financial investigator there?
MARY HULL: We investigated all fraud, waste, and abuse of all state funds.
MS. DUGAN: Can you tell me a little bit about your educational background to hold your position?
MARY HULL: Sure. I hold a Bachelor of Science degree in finance from Florida State University. I'm also a certified fraud examiner in good standing with the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And at DFS, were you a financial investigator of economic crime specifically?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Do you have experience in analyzing financial data?
MARY HULL: I do.
MS. DUGAN: Can you tell us about that?
MARY HULL: Yes. I have 20 years of financial analysis and auditing experience for both at the state level and for the United States Attorney's Office.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And what about white-collar criminal investigations?
MARY HULL: Yes. I've had 10 years of investigating criminal white-collar crime investigations, to include money laundering, mortgage fraud, contract fraud, identity theft, and embezzlement.
MS. DUGAN: Do you have a specific area of expertise?
MARY HULL: Yes. My specific area is forensic accounting.
MS. DUGAN: And what is forensic accounting?
MARY HULL: It is a very detailed analysis of financial records and data to be used in a court of law.
MS. DUGAN: Have you ever testified in court about your analysis of financial records?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And about how many times?
MARY HULL: This would be my 20th time.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and those are all the questions I have as to her expertise in that field, Judge.
JUDGE EVERETT: Is there any challenge to her ability to provide an opinion in forensic accounting?
JUDGE EVERETT: Members of the jury, the witness will be permitted to provide you with an opinion in the field of forensic accounting.
MS. DUGAN: All right. So you became involved in this case back in 2016. How did you become involved in this case?
MARY HULL: It was a criminal unit and I did all the financial analysis for it. I was asked to assist on this case. It wasn't my normal contract fraud or state fund fraud, but I would have the skill set that was needed.
MS. DUGAN: And what were you asked to do in regards to this case?
MARY HULL: To review mostly the bank records, but I did review some other records.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. I'm going to ask you about all the different things you reviewed. Did you review the bank accounts of Harvey Adelson, Donna Adelson, Wendi Adelson, and Charlie Adelson?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Speaking specifically to Charlie Adelson, did you review his Regions Bank, his primary bank savings and checking account with Regions, from the years 2013 to 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And did you also review what's been marked as State's 104, which is the records from his Capital One and Amex cards from 2014 to 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And what's been marked and shown to you before court today as 104A — is that a printout of one of the pages of those records?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right. I want to ask you about a few other folks you reviewed records for. Did you review bank account records of Luis Rivera?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And was that one Chase Bank account?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and that's been marked and shown to defense and the witness as State's 97. Were those for the years 2014 and 2015?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right. For Sigfredo Garcia, did you review two different accounts in this case, savings and checking, that were from Bank of America?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And were those for the years 2015 and 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes, that's correct.
MS. DUGAN: So that bank account was not established until the year after Dan Markel was killed?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: Did he have a bank account — Sigfredo Garcia, we're talking about — the year that Dan Markel was killed?
MARY HULL: An active account was not located for him.
MS. DUGAN: Did you also review some employment records for these gentlemen from Coastal Masonry from the years 2009 to 2014?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and that's State's Exhibit 69.
MS. DUGAN: For Katherine Magbanua, while looking at State's 99 and 100, did you review bank records from Bank of America that would include her savings account and her checking account?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And were those for the years 2013 to 2017?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and did she also have another bank account as well?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Was that with JPMorgan Chase?
MARY HULL: It was.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. That's been marked as State's 101 and 102. Are those two different numbers because there's also a savings and a checking account for those?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And were those also from 2013 to 2017?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Did you also review a credit card of hers, a Synchrony credit card?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: In addition to her bank records, did you review Katherine Magbanua's income tax filings for 2013 to 2015?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Was that a yes?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And did you also receive several records of different businesses?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: I want to ask you specifically about State's Exhibit 60. Did you review an Adelson Institute subpoena response, from a subpoena that was sent to them regarding Katherine Magbanua's employment?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: And did that subpoena response — was that from September 2014 to May 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Did you also review State's Exhibit 70, which was records from Dr.
MS. DUGAN: Rudner's — he's a plastic surgeon — his office?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Was that for a breast augmentation for Katherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: It was.
MS. DUGAN: Did you also review records from Jerome Obed's office, Broward Dermatology, regarding Katherine Magbanua's employment from July 2015 to March 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Did you also review State's Exhibit 77, which were copies of checks from Adelson Institute to Katherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Did you also review several DHSMV records as well?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right, let's go through those.
MS. DUGAN: Did you review State's 68, which was a Lexus titled to Katherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And what about what's been marked as 72, 73, 74, and 75 — DHSMV records for multiple different vehicles for Sigfredo Garcia and Luis Rivera?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right. And did all of those records, from all of those various companies — they came with certifications that certify they were legitimate records from those businesses. Is that what those are?
MARY HULL: Yes, they did.
MS. DUGAN: All right. At this time, I would enter all of those records into evidence. So, for what we'll do, that's going to be State's Exhibit 68 through 77.
JUDGE EVERETT: Any objection from the defense?
MR. RASHBAUM: No objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE EVERETT: State's 68 through 77 are admitted at this time.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, those are documents. And for discs, we have State's 97 through 104, and then the printout will be 104A from the Amex records.
JUDGE EVERETT: Those records are admitted at this time.
MS. DUGAN: All right, so all of those records, especially the bank records — are those pretty voluminous?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Hundreds and or even thousands of pages at times?
MARY HULL: Oh, yes.
MS. DUGAN: In order to illustrate to the jury your findings in this case, are you going to rely on a summary of the bank records and all of the different records that you just told us about?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: In addition to looking at those records, did you also look at certain messages from the iCloud of Charlie Adelson in your preparation or your work for this case?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and are some of those messages incorporated into the summary?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And is your summary an accurate reflection of those records that you just told us about?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: At this time, I would move State's Exhibit 76 into evidence, which is the summary of the financial records.
JUDGE EVERETT: Any objection to State 76?
MR. RASHBAUM: No objection.
JUDGE EVERETT: Those will be admitted.
MS. DUGAN: All right. In State 76, I just want to be clear, we have a paper copy, right? That's going to be in evidence, but we'll look at it today on a PowerPoint view for the jury. Okay. Permission to publish via PowerPoint, Judge?
JUDGE EVERETT: You may.
MS. DUGAN: All right, so I'm going to ask you about the different records that you looked at, and you'll tell us what we have here on the screen. And all of the records that you told us about are in evidence — if the jury wants to see any more, they'll be back in the deliberation room with them. Okay. So looking here at the first slide of your summary, what, if any, vehicles did Louis Rivera acquire after the murder of Dan Markel on July 18th, 2014, per his DHSMV records?
MARY HULL: He purchased on July 28, 2014 a 2003 Suzuki motorcycle.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and were there any others?
MARY HULL: Yes, he also purchased on July 31st, 2014 a 1996 Toyota Camry.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and in reviewing the records, was there a picture of the yellow motorcycle among his social media information?
MARY HULL: It was.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And I don't think we were able to find an image of the green Toyota, but is that kind of a silhouette of what a green Toyota of that make and year looks like?
MARY HULL: Yes, it was a fifth AM.
MS. DUGAN: All right. All right. So when you analyzed Louis Rivera's bank accounts, what did you learn about his banking patterns or banking habits?
MARY HULL: Louis Rivera had a very unique banking pattern. All his payroll checks were direct-deposited, but as soon as they hit his account he'd pull them all out in cash — virtually all of it. But he had auto-draft auto-payments set up, so every time an auto-payment would come through it would bounce and he would end up with a bank overdraft charge. So we had a lot of overdraft charges.
MS. DUGAN: And where were his paychecks coming from?
MARY HULL: Coastal Masonry.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So he had a steady job at Coastal Masonry throughout the records that you looked at?
MARY HULL: He did.
MS. DUGAN: And when his paychecks — you said they were direct-deposited into his account?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Were those for about $500 to $600 a week?
MARY HULL: It was.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And he would pretty much immediately withdraw the money, you say?
MARY HULL: Yes, he operated mostly in cash.
MS. DUGAN: And then would he begin to overdraft after that until his next paycheck?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Did the pattern, his banking pattern, change after the murder of Dan Markel?
MARY HULL: It did.
MS. DUGAN: All right, how did it change?
MARY HULL: He no longer pulled out large amounts of cash, leaving his paychecks in there. The auto-payments no longer caused an overdraft payment.
MS. DUGAN: Was the last large cash withdrawal before the murder of Dan Markel just a couple of days before his murder?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: When did his normal banking patterns resume again after the murder of Dan Markel?
MARY HULL: About four months later.
MS. DUGAN: All right, what do we see here?
MARY HULL: This is a graph that shows his banking pattern of the overdrafts. So it's split into three three-month segments. All the red bars will show where he had an overdraft charge, and then you see that long pattern between the two yellow bars and then a little after that shows there were no overdraft charges. But by November 11th of 2014 his pattern picked back up. So in the three months before the murder, from April to July, he had a pretty low balance in his bank accounts — about $65.30 — and about 21 different overdraft penalties.
MS. DUGAN: Yes. Looking from the first yellow line, from the date of the murder to three months after the murder, so mid- to end-July to October, did he have any overdrafts during that time?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: And for him, did he have a relatively high balance in his bank account of $249.94?
MARY HULL: For him, it was.
MS. DUGAN: Right. In the three to six months after the murder, did he then start to pick up on the overdrafts again?
MARY HULL: Yes, he did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And this time the average balance is a little less than it was in the three months preceding it?
MARY HULL: A little bit, yes.
MS. DUGAN: Now during the time when he's not withdrawing money from this bank account or having overdraft fees, could that be indicative of him having another source of cash that's separate from Coastal Masonry, which would be the money coming in from his job?
MARY HULL: Yes, that indicated to me they had an additional source of cash and was not having to rely on removing cash from the bank to operate. He liked operating in cash.
MS. DUGAN: All right. You said that you looked at the DHSMV records of Sigfredo Garcia. What, if any, vehicles did Sigfredo Garcia acquire after the murder of Dan Markel?
MARY HULL: On July 26, 2014, he purchased a 1997 Honda Racer, black and yellow. He also purchased on August 22, 2014, a 1984 Chevy Monte Carlo in blue.
MARY HULL: In October of 17, 2014, he also purchased a 2000 Nissan Maxima, gold sedan.
MS. DUGAN: And you mentioned that you analyzed Sigfredo Garcia's bank accounts. What kind of bank records did he have?
MARY HULL: He had a checking and a savings account.
MS. DUGAN: And were those for the time period of June 2015 to July of 2016?
MARY HULL: It was.
MS. DUGAN: And you said before, you didn't have any bank records to review of his from the time of the murder because he didn't have any active accounts at that time?
MARY HULL: None that we can find. Subpoenas sent to banks came back indicating closed accounts with no records — they just came back with no response.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. All right, you mentioned you received Coastal Masonry records. Did you also have Coastal Masonry records for not only Louis Rivera, who had steady paychecks from there, but also for Sigfredo Garcia?
MARY HULL: Yes, there were some records from there, but he worked very sporadically.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so just a couple of months here one year, a couple months there another year — no steady paychecks?
MARY HULL: No steady paychecks.
MS. DUGAN: At some point during his bank records, did he — or at some point during the years 2013 to 2016, did he begin receiving steady paychecks?
MARY HULL: Yes, he did.
MS. DUGAN: Was that in September of 2015?
MARY HULL: That sounds right, yes.
MS. DUGAN: And did that last up until he was arrested in May of 2016?
MARY HULL: It was.
MS. DUGAN: Where were those paychecks from?
MARY HULL: I'd have to refer to my notes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay.
MARY HULL: He was employed at Rapid Capital Funding.
MS. DUGAN: Rapid Capital Funding?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Moving on to Katherine Magbanua.
MS. DUGAN: Did she already own a car at the time of Dan Markel's murder?
MARY HULL: She did.
MS. DUGAN: When you looked at the iCloud for Charlie Adelson, did you find messages that indicated that Charlie Adelson provided her with some financial assistance for that vehicle?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And in the way of repairs?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Looking at this first set of text messages, what date are these from?
MARY HULL: This one is November 18, 2014.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and I won't ask you to read all of it — the jury will have these in evidence. But on this page, does it say that she needs a loan? She calls him "buddy." She says, "I need a loan, buddy, because the parts alone are gonna be expensive."
MS. DUGAN: "Imagine what it would be if she took it to another mechanic." And she says he texted Sully his CC?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And he said, "You'll be fine, I got you," right?
MARY HULL: Right.
MS. DUGAN: Are his messages — Charlie Adelson's messages — in the blue and Katherine Magbanua's in the green here?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And then she says, "Stop paying for shit with a Y on your card"?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Looking at the next set, this is on May 30th of 2015?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: He says she needs to get her timing belt changed.
MS. DUGAN: He says bring it to Mazda and he'll take care of it for her in this message?
MARY HULL: Yes, he does.
MS. DUGAN: And in this message, is it him offering to take care of the repairs for her?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Looking at this one on November 18th of 2014.
MS. DUGAN: Whoops, sorry. I went back up instead of down.
MS. DUGAN: Looking at the next exchange on November 9th of 2015, she's asking him for credit card authorization.
MS. DUGAN: He says he'll pay it if he can put it on his credit card. What's the amount?
MS. DUGAN: She's telling him, just put $1,630. He offers to put $1,650 there at the bottom.
MS. DUGAN: And then looking at the next page, she says it came out to $1,620 and says, "Thanks again, I'll pay you back."
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And then when you compared the timing of these messages on November 10th, 2015, where they seem to be talking about him paying for something for her, what did you find when you looked at his Amex credit card?
MARY HULL: I found the payment to Mazda of North Miami for $1,620.77.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And in the previous text messages we saw from several months or some time before, he had been saying, "Take your car to Mazda" — and this is also Mazda?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right. So did it appear from the iCloud and from other records that at some point in late 2015, Katherine Magbanua got a different car?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Looking here at the message from December 14th of 2015, does Charlie Adelson say that he's going to cancel the Lexus insurance today?
MS. DUGAN: "His mom is paying it now, but please go ASAP"?
MARY HULL: Yes, that's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And she — Katherine Magbanua — is then later saying, you know, "I'll take care of it, don't worry," and he says, "I already paid it five minutes ago, just chill, you're still the best"?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Did you then look at the DHSMV records to see if there was a DHS — or I'm sorry, a Lexus title — to Katherine Magbanua from around this time?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: All right. And what is this?
MARY HULL: That's the certificate title for Katherine Magbanua.
MS. DUGAN: All right, and does this — I'm going to try to zoom — the jury will have this in evidence, and if you need me to bring the actual title up there for you to see it closer, you can let me know.
MARY HULL: I think I'd see well enough.
MS. DUGAN: Did she acquire the vehicle in January of 2016 per this title?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and what type of vehicle was it?
MARY HULL: It was a 2001 Lexus four-door sedan in black.
MS. DUGAN: Who was the previous owner of the vehicle?
MARY HULL: Harvey Adelson.
MS. DUGAN: And how much did the DHSMV title indicate that it was sold to Katherine Magbanua for?
MARY HULL: $1,700.
MS. DUGAN: Is that there about halfway down the page?
MARY HULL: Yes, on the right side.
MS. DUGAN: Were you able to find any record of payment from Katherine Magbanua for this vehicle?
MARY HULL: No, I did not.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so no check made out from Magbanua to an Adelson for that amount?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Was there any matching, like, cash withdrawal — like a withdrawal for $1,700 from her account?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Were you able to find any $1,700 deposit into any Adelson accounts for that amount?
MARY HULL: I did not.
MS. DUGAN: Was there a drop in the money that she was receiving from the Adelson Institute at that time to account for this car, if it had been taken out of her salary?
MARY HULL: No.
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: Can you insure a vehicle without actually transferring the title?
MARY HULL: I don't believe so.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And we saw that they were talking about the insurance in the prior text message, right?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: Do you have to put a sale price or list it as a gift when you transfer a title?
MARY HULL: You have to either list a price or list it as a gift.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. If you say that it's a sale on the transfer title and not a gift, are you taxed?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Is there a financial benefit of listing, like, a really low sales price on the title transfer for a vehicle?
MARY HULL: Yes, it lowers the amount for the registration of the car.
MS. DUGAN: Who decides what number goes on the title transfer?
MARY HULL: It's supposed to be the seller, but most often the seller just leaves it blank.
MS. DUGAN: So just whoever submitting it to the tax office then would fill it in?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: If I sold you a car for $3,000, but we agreed to put $300 on the title transfer, would we pay less taxes on it?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Looking at the iCloud messages between Katherine Magbanua and Charlie Adelson, did it appear that Charlie Adelson provided other financial assistance or gifts or favors for Katherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: What do we see here?
MARY HULL: Okay. This is on March 6, 2015.
MARY HULL: It's from Charlie's Delta SkyMiles account, showing a purchase of a ticket to Santo Domingo for Katherine Magbanua.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And do you see Katherine Magbanua's name there under passenger name?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Santo Domingo, is that in the Dominican Republic?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: And what was the price of these tickets, for, with Spirit Airlines?
MARY HULL: $970.74.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Looking at messages from the iCloud on October 19th of 2015, does Katherine Magbanua say to him, "Hey, don't you have a hookup with plane tickets? I want to leave for Thanksgiving and take my mom. It's her 60th on November 9th." And then there at the bottom, Charlie Adelson asks, "Where do you want to take your mom?"
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Looking at this conversation that continues on the next page, she says, "I want to do something for my mom. Let me see if she has days off on Thanksgiving." She thinks about renting an RV, and then about halfway down the page, Charlie Adelson volunteers to get a cruise for her and her mom?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And then he says, "Perfect. They have really nice ones that you guys can leave on a Friday, go to two ports, and come back on Monday morning. You won't miss any work."
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: And this was October of 2015?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: Looking at the continued conversation, he says, "Okay, so I think it would be super cool for you to go with just you and your mom from Friday to Monday on a Norwegian cruise. It leaves Friday at four and gets back Monday at seven. Does that work?" And then they talk about where and looking at dates.
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So in that exchange, she mentions wanting to do something nice for her mom. She has the idea of maybe renting an RV, and he offers to pay for them to go on a cruise.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: On May 20th of 2015, in this exchange, does Katherine Magbanua say that she has a shitload of things to pay for and needs a little help because of the kids' tuition — "I hate asking" — and he says, "I will lend you whatever you need"?
MARY HULL: Yes, that's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Shortly after this text message exchange, in the few days following, did you look at Katherine Magbanua's account to see if there is any large cash deposit into her account?
MARY HULL: Yes, I did. She received $1,400 that she put into her Chase 7242 account.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so what we have there at the bottom is literally like a still shot of her record showing the cash deposit into her account on May 26th.
MARY HULL: That's a snippet of her bank account.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, thank you. So a snippet of that $1,400 deposit.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And in this message she says she hates asking for the money, and he says he'll lend it to her, whatever she needs?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: All right, you mentioned that you looked at Dr.
MS. DUGAN: Rudner's plastic surgeon's office records. Did Katherine Magbanua have her breast augmentation surgery in October of 2014?
MARY HULL: Yes, she did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, what do we see here?
MARY HULL: That is a snippet of the payment record for Dr.
MARY HULL: Ravner.
MS. DUGAN: All right, and before tax, what was the cost of the breast augmentation?
MARY HULL: It was $4,595.
MS. DUGAN: All right. How was this paid? Like how much was it cash, card, check?
MARY HULL: There was $4,400 paid in cash and $195 paid through her debit card.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Was that $4,400 paid in cash — was that two separate payments, one a $4,000 in cash payment and the other one a $400 in cash payment?
MARY HULL: Yes, that's correct.
MS. DUGAN: What percentage of her breast augmentation was paid in cash?
MARY HULL: 96 percent.
MS. DUGAN: Were there any corresponding withdrawals from many of Katherine Magbanua's accounts that would reach $4,400 or even $4,000?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: During that time, did you add up all her cash withdrawals from that whole year, like January 2014 all the way to October 2014?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and did they total only about a little over $2,000 during that time?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so not enough to pay for the $4,400 in cash.
MARY HULL: Not pulling it from a bank account.
MS. DUGAN: All right, now I want to focus on Katherine Magbanua's bank records.
MS. DUGAN: Based on the records that you reviewed, were you able to ascertain where she may have worked or what businesses she received income from from those bank records?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, what do we see here?
MARY HULL: What you see is a summary of how much money she got, and I can show for each year from where she was employed.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Can you tell us which businesses she received income from and when?
MARY HULL: Sure. You want me to list all the dates?
MS. DUGAN: If you would.
MARY HULL: Okay. Millennium Therapy Services, from January 7, 2013 to July 5, 2013. Encore Nationwide, January 18, 2013 to December 31, 2013. CEO Next LLC, April 1, 2013 to April 30, 2013.
MARY HULL: Sophie Dental Care, May 8, 2013 to July 31, 2014.
MARY HULL: The Adelson Institute, October 7, 2014 to May 17, 2016.
MARY HULL: Dr. Obed, July 29, 2015 to March 23, 2016.
MARY HULL: Dr. Lopez, July 29, 2016 to October 14, 2016.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, did you review on employment — right, I will — let me ask you, could Quintana Lopez, could she have been a realtor at that time?
MARY HULL: She may have been.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, did you look at the actual employment records though from Jerome for many of these, including Jerome Obed?
MARY HULL: Jerome Obed, yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, was Jerome Obed a dermatologist's office?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and was there a relationship between Charlie Adelson and Jerome Obed?
MARY HULL: Yes, I believe they were good friends.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Were there messages in the iCloud indicating that Obed was Charlie Adelson's roommate at the time?
MARY HULL: There was.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. I want to ask you about some of this income.
MS. DUGAN: What do we have here?
MARY HULL: This is a chart that shows the money that was deposited in her account by employer in the blocks vertically — and then, I'm sorry, horizontally — and then the months on the bottom from January 23rd to December 16th.
MS. DUGAN: Looking at the dates, the date that we see here from the time that the employment begins, was that the date that the check was written or the date that the check was posted to her account?
MARY HULL: It was the date it hit her account.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so this reflects income from her account from those businesses from the date of the first check, the day it was posted, to the date of the last post?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right, now looking at this graph, and the date of the murder in this graph, which is reflected by the first red line, July 18, 2014 — was she employed at the time of the murder or the five, six weeks afterwards?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: We see that she received income from the Adelson Institute from October 8, 2014 through a check dated May 17, 2016. Was there evidence from Charlie Adelson's iCloud that referenced how or why she began receiving income from the Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: There was.
MS. DUGAN: Looking at this message, is this message from June 24th of 2014?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: So this would have been from three or four weeks before the murder of Dan Markel?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And in this message, she says, "I'm going to need help on the employment info. I have to send a DCF for my kid's insurance."
MS. DUGAN: I'm sorry, INS.
MS. DUGAN: Also, I have to end up moving late — also, if I have to end up moving later on, I need to show I'm working for you, or else I won't be able to get an apartment. And he says, "No prob"?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And then about two months after the murder of Dan Markel, she begins receiving checks from the Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: She does.
MS. DUGAN: In order to rent an apartment, do people sometimes have to show proof of employment so that the apartment complex will rent to them and know that they will reliably pay their rent?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: In order to get public assistance health insurance, do people need to show that they are employed but don't make above a certain amount of money?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: Did you review checks from Adelson Institute that were deposited into Katherine Magbanua's account?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: And in what accounts did you find those checks?
MARY HULL: They mostly went into her checking accounts, but occasionally she'd put some in her savings.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And they were coming out of Adelson Institute's Regions account?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: How many checks total were there from the Adelson Institute to Katherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: There was 44 checks.
MS. DUGAN: And what do we see here?
MARY HULL: This is a list of the checks that were paid to her, and it shows the date they are posted to her account, the date that was written on the check, the check number, the payment, and the memo field, so —
MS. DUGAN: Looking at what's been entered in the evidence of State 77, a copy of each check back in front is State 77?
MARY HULL: Yes — all 44 checks.
MS. DUGAN: Yes. Okay, but just for ease of presenting and explaining these checks to the jury, you're relying on this summary here, this kind of Excel table summarizing the checks?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Were all of the checks deposited by Katherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: They were.
MS. DUGAN: Who were all the checks signed by?
MARY HULL: Donna Adelson.
MS. DUGAN: When was the first check issued from Adelson Institute to Katherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: The date on the checks was September — September 17th, 2014.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so that was just short of one — I'm sorry, that was about two months from the murder of Dan Markel.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And how often did Katherine Magbanua receive checks from Adelson Institute after that?
MARY HULL: She received two checks a month.
MS. DUGAN: Until May of 2016?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right, if you could walk us through — here are just an example of three different checks.
MS. DUGAN: There's a pointer there in front of you.
MS. DUGAN: You might have to make sure it's up on the ledge.
MS. DUGAN: There you go.
MS. DUGAN: What can you tell us about — well, first of all, I asked you who signed all the checks and you said Donna Adelson. Can you show us the signature on these checks?
MARY HULL: Right here.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so Donna Sue Adelson.
MARY HULL: Yeah, that's the signature line on all of them.
MS. DUGAN: And what can you tell us about the memo lines of these checks?
MARY HULL: The memo line, uh, reflects the date she would have worked on each of these checks.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so they reflect kind of like the pay period for that amount?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. I want — to go back to our summary. Or let me ask you first: the memo lines, the date ranges — were these usually about every eight to ten days?
MARY HULL: Yes, the range.
MS. DUGAN: Go — back to our summary.
MS. DUGAN: What amount were all of the checks for?
MARY HULL: All except for the first one were $407.58.
MS. DUGAN: So all of them except the first one were for the exact same amount?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: And is that what the column furthest to the right indicates for each one?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Were some of these checks advance pay?
MARY HULL: They were.
MS. DUGAN: What does that mean?
MARY HULL: That she was actually paid before the end of the time frame of the payment, so she would get the paycheck before the work period was complete.
MS. DUGAN: Yes — or posted before the work period was complete?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And — on the right, does that indicate which ones were advance pay?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: Were — some of these checks sequential?
MARY HULL: They were.
MS. DUGAN: And what does that mean?
MARY HULL: That they were paid by the same set of checkbooks — checks in a book, so they're one, two, and three sequential.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, now were the ones that were sequential, were they at or around the same date?
MARY HULL: No, they reflected different dates.
MS. DUGAN: All right, so when you say they're sequential, the number here at the top of the check —
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: — that would mean that the next check she received, even though it's supposed to be for two weeks later in a different pay period, would be the next number in sequence?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: How many sequential checks did Katherine Magbanua receive in a row?
MARY HULL: She had 18.
MS. DUGAN: All — right, looking at this column furthest to the right, our — checks, it appears to be 11, 12, and 13. Were they all sequential?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so that would be three in a row?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And then looking at checks — or, I'm sorry, the number 28 through 33, those checks, that was six sequential checks in a row?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And then looking at 36 through — I think it's three up — so 36 through 41, was that another six sequential checks in a row?
MARY HULL: It was.
MS. DUGAN: And then the final three, I believe that is — were those sequential checks all in a row?
MARY HULL: They were.
MS. DUGAN: You — mentioned earlier that at the time of, or we saw that she received a breast augmentation in October of 2014. We saw — was Katherine Magbanua receiving checks at that time from the Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: She was.
MS. DUGAN: Was there any disruption in her paychecks from October of 2014 when she received a breast augmentation, like time where she would have been out of work or recuperating or anything like that?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Was the amount the same as it was on the other checks except for the first one?
MARY HULL: It was.
MS. DUGAN: What about the time for the trip to Santo Domingo that departed on March 22nd of 2014?
MS. DUGAN: Was she — did she have any less of a paycheck around that time that might reflect time that she was off or didn't work when she was in another country that week?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: So no decrease of any money she received?
MARY HULL: None.
MS. DUGAN: What other records did you review with respect to her employment at Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: The only thing I received from the subpoena was a QuickBooks summary.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and what do we see here?
MARY HULL: That is a printout from the QuickBooks report for the Adelson Institute.
MS. DUGAN: So this is what y'all received from the Adelson Institute when y'all subpoenaed her employment, or when her employment records were subpoenaed?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: What is a QuickBooks printout?
MARY HULL: It's an accounting software — software program a lot of businesses use for payroll and keeping track of expenses.
MS. DUGAN: What time period did the printout cover?
MARY HULL: This printout covers September 18, 2014 to March 31, 2016.
MS. DUGAN: What date range did the law enforcement subpoena request?
MARY HULL: The request was for any and all records for her employment.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Were all of the checks that Katherine Magbanua received reflected on this QuickBooks?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: You said the last check on the QuickBooks was from March 31st of 2016?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. When looking at her account, how many additional checks were there after that time that she was paid by Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: She received three additional checks.
MS. DUGAN: And when was the last check that she posted according to her bank account?
MARY HULL: I believe it was May 17th, 2016.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, but in May of 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: So if Garcia was arrested on May 25th of 2016 and the last check to Katherine Magbanua per the actual checks was written on May 12th of 2016, they stopped making payments to her after his arrest on May 25th?
MARY HULL: It's possible — same timeframe.
MS. DUGAN: What was the total net amount received by Katherine Magbanua from Adelson Institute from September of 2014 to May of 2016?
MARY HULL: It was $17,729, I believe.
MS. DUGAN: $17,729?
MARY HULL: I believe so.
MS. DUGAN: And did Adelson Institute provide any type of employment application, timesheet, W-2, tax filing, performance evaluation, job description, anything like that for Katherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: No, they did not.
MS. DUGAN: Just the QuickBooks?
MARY HULL: Just the QuickBooks.
MS. DUGAN: I want to ask you about the timing of Katherine Magbanua's final Adelson Institute checks.
MS. DUGAN: Are you familiar with what we call the bump in this case?
MARY HULL: I am.
MS. DUGAN: And that was on April 19th of 2016.
MS. DUGAN: Looking at the final three checks to Katherine Magbanua that were sequential and not in QuickBooks, was there evidence of a check that was later in sequence that was actually posted in a party's bank account before the bump on April 19th of 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes. It's a second bar. Harvey deposited check number 2083 on April 11th, 2016.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and that check was posted to his account, but it was after Katherine Magbanua's last three sequential checks in sequence.
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: And that would have been before the bump.
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right, did you look at Katherine Magbanua's bank account to determine what her income source is for the year before the murder, the year of the murder, and the two years following the murder, what those were?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, I want you to walk us through each one of those.
MS. DUGAN: Looking at 2013, how much cash did she deposit that year into her accounts?
MARY HULL: $13,035.
MS. DUGAN: What percentage of her total income that year then was cash?
MARY HULL: 23%.
MS. DUGAN: Was cash deposits her highest source of income into her account that year?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Looking at 2014, how much cash did she deposit into her account that year?
MARY HULL: $46,820.
MS. DUGAN: What percentage of her total income was that cash that year into her account?
MARY HULL: 64%.
MS. DUGAN: And was cash deposits her highest source of income that year?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: What does the yellow reflect here? We talked about the red, the cash deposits. What does the yellow reflect?
MARY HULL: It's for the checks that she received that year for Adelson Institute.
MS. DUGAN: And the checks that we saw didn't begin being posted to her account from Adelson Institute until October of 2014 that year?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: So this would just be about two months' worth of checks?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: So when combined with the Adelson Institute income, cash and Adelson Institute money was about 68% of her total income that year into her account?
MARY HULL: Yes, that's correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right, looking at 2015, how much cash was deposited into her account that year?
MARY HULL: $26,523.77.
MS. DUGAN: And what percentage of her total income was cash deposits?
MARY HULL: 51%.
MS. DUGAN: Was cash deposits her highest source of income that year?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And the yellow, does that again represent Adelson Institute in this graph?
MARY HULL: It does.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And what does the purple represent?
MARY HULL: That was paychecks received from Dr. Obed.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And that was Charlie Adelson's friend and roommate?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: So looking at her cash and Adelson sources, when combined all of that together, it's about 81% of her income is cash, Adelson Institute, and Jerome Obed paychecks.
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: Finally, looking two years after the murder in 2016, does she deposit significantly less cash than the last two years that year?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: How much cash does she deposit that year?
MARY HULL: $11,921.33.
MS. DUGAN: And that was about 20% of her total income?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: We saw where the last check posted to her account from the Adelson Institute was in May of that year. So in those five months, the $4,890 amount, that was the amount that she received from Adelson Institute just for 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And then from Jerome Obed, this reflects the amount deposited into her account from him as well, from his business?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right, what do we see here?
MARY HULL: This is a different way of reflecting the cash deposits in her account by year — bar chart.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so at the bottom we see the amount of the percentage of cash deposited into her account compared to the total amount of income she received?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right, and at the top is the actual number as far as cash deposits into her account in a bar graph that reflects that?
MARY HULL: Right.
MS. DUGAN: Which year had the most cash deposits, looking at 2013 in the first column to 2016 in the last column?
MARY HULL: 2014.
MS. DUGAN: In 2014 was the year of Dan Markel's murder?
MARY HULL: It was.
MS. DUGAN: In 2014 did she have about three times as much cash deposited into her account as the year before?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And about twice as much as the year after in 2015?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And looking at the graphs below, in 2014 and 2015, the percentage of her total amount of income into her account that was cash was 64 and 51 percent compared to the years before and two years after the murder being only 23 and 20 percent?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right. What do we see here?
MARY HULL: This is a chart. The bar chart above shows the amounts for the cash deposits, the Adelson Institute, and Dr. Obed, and the bottom reflects the percentage of those combined. So
MS. DUGAN: Looking at cash and income from Adelson-related sources, Adelson Institute and Jerome Obed, that was 67 and 81 percent of her total income in 2014 and 2015, the year of and year after the murder, compared to 2013 and 2016 at 23 and 35?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: You said that 2014 was the year that Katherine Magbanua had the most amount of cash deposited into her account. What does this graph represent?
MARY HULL: So this graph shows cash deposits by month, and each month has a point on the scale on the left, and it's connected by a line so you can see the flow.
MS. DUGAN: So it's a line chart.
MARY HULL: Start.
MS. DUGAN: So in this year with the most amount of cash deposits, 2014, which month of that year was the most cash deposited into her account?
MARY HULL: It was August of 2014.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and is that reflected by the yellow circle with a one in it?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: And how much cash was deposited into her account that month?
MARY HULL: I believe it was $13,200.
MS. DUGAN: And that was the month following the murder of Dan Markel?
MARY HULL: It was.
MS. DUGAN: How does that amount of cash deposited in August compare to the other months in 2014?
MARY HULL: It was the highest of all the months.
MS. DUGAN: What were the second — what was the second and third highest cash deposit months in 2014?
MARY HULL: The second highest was October of 2014.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and what about the third?
MARY HULL: July of 2013 — 2014.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So the third highest was the same month as the murder of Dan Markel?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And the second highest was the same month that the checks from Adelson Institute began being posted to her account, and she also received a breast augmentation?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: What do we see here?
MARY HULL: This is another graph showing the cash deposits by month, but this is a bar chart. So the higher the bar, the more cash she would have received.
MS. DUGAN: So looking at this 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, this four-year span, which month in that four-year span has the most amount of cash deposits?
MARY HULL: It's the August of 2014.
MS. DUGAN: And — What about the second highest?
MARY HULL: The second highest was October 2014.
MS. DUGAN: And the third?
MARY HULL: July 2014.
MS. DUGAN: So even looking at that four-year span now and not just the year 2014, those are still the three highest — from all four years into her account, were those three dates we talked about before?
MARY HULL: Yes, that's correct.
MS. DUGAN: What do we see here?
MARY HULL: This is an overlay of two sets of data. The red line shows her cash deposits by month, and the bars are showing her employment.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And what does the first black line represent?
MARY HULL: The murder.
MS. DUGAN: So that was July 18, 2014 — that represents the date of the murder?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And then the second black line that says "bump" on top represents the date of the bump?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: April 19, 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Looking at all of the red lines, looking — at all the red lines before the date of the murder, what was the amount of cash deposits in those 12 months before the murder? How much cash did she deposit into her account?
MARY HULL: One year before, she deposited $15,600.
MS. DUGAN: And that would be like from July 2013 to June of 2014?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Looking at then in the 12 months following the murder, so from the red line for about the next 12 months — how much cash was deposited into her account?
MARY HULL: She deposited forty-four thousand nine hundred and sixty-three dollars.
MS. DUGAN: So about three times as much as the entire 12 months before the murder?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right. And then, right next to the line that indicates the murder, we see a giant red spike. What does that represent?
MARY HULL: That represents the spike of cash that she put in between July and August.
MS. DUGAN: And looking at now the bar graph around that murder line and the cash spike — is there any record of her being employed during that August cash spike where $13,200 were deposited into her account?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: So no bar during that part?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: What about from the day after Dan Markel was murdered, so July 19th to just the end of August — those six weeks — how much was deposited into her account?
MARY HULL: $17,300.
MS. DUGAN: And then by the end of the next month, by the end of September, she's on the payroll at Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: Yes, that's correct.
MS. DUGAN: You told us earlier that you analyzed the Adelson Institute records.
MS. DUGAN: What was the annual income for Adelson Institute, approximately?
MARY HULL: Based on the records I have, about $2 million.
MS. DUGAN: About $2 million a year?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And was that profit?
MARY HULL: No, I didn't do a profit calculation.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. About how much money did Charlie Adelson make per year?
MARY HULL: It varied between $3 and $3.5 million, according to his bank records that I had.
MS. DUGAN: And that was for each year between 2013 and 2016?
MARY HULL: For each year, yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Did he make money from not only working as a dentist at the Adelson Institute, but also as a traveling periodontist?
MARY HULL: Yes, he also had some rental income and some land sales, real estate sales.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. You mentioned earlier that you looked at the Adelson family bank accounts and investment accounts as well. Can you give us an idea of the total amount of money in these investment accounts in the years surrounding this investigation?
MARY HULL: Yes, it's about $4.1 million to — $5.8 million at the end.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And you mentioned earlier that you also looked at the individual family members' checking and savings accounts, their business accounts as well. Can you tell us what those amounts were in June and July of 2014?
MARY HULL: Yes. When you put all of the 32 accounts together, there was $8.1 million in June of 2014 and $8.1 million in July of 2014.
MS. DUGAN: And that's just money in the bank, right? I mean, that doesn't include real estate, cars, other assets.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Or cash of theirs that they never put in the bank in the first place.
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: Now, based on your review of the Adelson Institute, did their businesses give cash discounts for services?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Were there records in Charlie Adelson's iCloud where he discusses providing cash discounts for services?
MARY HULL: There was.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And I won't make you go through every single one of these, but are these messages where they talk about cash discounts for clients, the cash price for different services?
MS. DUGAN: They try to give people an incentive to use cash as opposed to a card?
MARY HULL: It seems so, yes.
MS. DUGAN: And were there messages in Charlie Adelson's iCloud where he and Adelson family members are discussing having large amounts of cash?
MARY HULL: There was.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And did they discuss how they keep it — that they keep it in piles or keep it in a safe?
MARY HULL: Yes, they kept it in a safe, and some reference of piles of cash.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. I'm going to show you two different sets of messages. In this one, Harvey Adelson says to Charlie Adelson — he says, "Charlie, I spoke to Mom; we will take the $26,000 in cash." Then sometime later he seems to change his mind and says, "There's no tax advantage for the $26,000 gift. I have too much — I have too much cash and would rather you have it. You transfer it from your personal account." So here they're talking about one gifting the other $26,000 in cash, but then decide against it because they already have too much cash.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And — then in this one, does this appear to be Donna Adelson saying, "Good morning, Charlie. I need to take $25,000 from your office checkbook, put it into Dad's office checkbook in order to break even this month. Can we do that? Do you have enough money in your office account to write that check? If you do, then Dad will move $25,000 in cash in the safe into your pile. Please let me know so we can take care of this today." And he says, "No problem."
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: So they're talking about moving large amounts of cash from one pile, one person's pile, to another person's pile in a safe?
MARY HULL: Seems so, yes.
MS. DUGAN: And this safe would be at a place where Donna Adelson and Harvey Adelson are in control of it?
MARY HULL: I believe so.
MS. DUGAN: That's all I have. Thank you.
JUDGE EVERETT: Cross-exam.
MR. RASHBAUM: Afternoon, Miss Hull.
MARY HULL: Good afternoon.
MR. RASHBAUM: You recall that on page two of this exhibit you were asked about Luis Rivera's financials?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: And you recall that you you were asked whether you saw any spike in cash deposits over time?
MARY HULL: For Luis Rivera? No.
MR. RASHBAUM: Do you recall whether you were asked that question?
MARY HULL: No spike of cash.
MR. RASHBAUM: So you have a spike at the time of the murder. He's not withdrawing cash, correct?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. RASHBAUM: But over time, his habits go back to how they were before, right?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: So unlike Katie Magbanua, you don't see the cash keeping on going up — right?
MARY HULL: Right.
MR. RASHBAUM: With Luis Rivera, you see essentially a spike in cash and then nothing.
MARY HULL: Well, the spike was from his direct deposits, but you're essentially correct. He had cash.
MR. RASHBAUM: Yeah. Before, he would take the money out because he had no money.
MARY HULL: Right.
MR. RASHBAUM: But after the murder, he doesn't take any money out for a while.
MARY HULL: That's right.
MR. RASHBAUM: But then he runs out of money again.
MARY HULL: It seems so.
MR. RASHBAUM: So he starts taking it out again.
MARY HULL: Right.
MR. RASHBAUM: Different than Katie Magbanua, right?
MARY HULL: Oh yes. Actually the complete opposite.
MR. RASHBAUM: Yes — he didn't put money in accounts apparently unless he had to. With Katie Magbanua, the money just keeps going forward.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: Now, Ms. — Dugan showed you some text messages, do you recall that?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: And she showed you text messages regarding some car repairs.
MARY HULL: That's right.
MR. RASHBAUM: And on those text messages, Charlie Adelson has no problem whatsoever creating a paper trail and putting those car repairs on his credit card, right?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. RASHBAUM: And in fact, you were able to go to his credit card and see it, right?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MR. RASHBAUM: Katie — Magbanua, what, tells him not to put it on the credit card, right?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MR. RASHBAUM: And he doesn't listen to her?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. RASHBAUM: You were asked about a Lexus, right?
MR. RASHBAUM: A Lexus with, I think, if my eyes don't deceive me, had 160,000 miles?
MARY HULL: I'll take your word for it.
MR. RASHBAUM: You want me to show you it?
MARY HULL: Sure.
MR. RASHBAUM: May I approach?
JUDGE EVERETT: Yeah, right.
MR. RASHBAUM: And 160,000 miles?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. RASHBAUM: And you couldn't find any payment from Katherine Magbanua for that car, right?
MARY HULL: I could not.
MR. RASHBAUM: Are you aware that Katherine Magbanua came in here today and insisted that she paid for that car?
MARY HULL: No, I didn't know she testified.
MR. RASHBAUM: But you saw no evidence of any payment, right?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. RASHBAUM: From your forensic analysis, no payment was ever given, correct?
MARY HULL: Not through the bank records.
MR. RASHBAUM: Now, you also talked a little bit about the Adelson Institute checks.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. RASHBAUM: And you talked about how those checks, or the employment, began sometime around October of 2014.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: And that was approximately two months after Professor Markel's murder?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: And the checks, they were after taxes, right?
MARY HULL: No, there was taxes taken out of it.
MR. RASHBAUM: That's what I mean.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: So the numbers we see here of $407.58, which every check is except the first one.
MARY HULL: Right.
MR. RASHBAUM: That's after the taxes were taken out.
MARY HULL: That's correct. It's a net amount.
MR. RASHBAUM: And the checks were for about two times every month, right?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: And so essentially the checks were for around a thousand dollars a month.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: And I think you testified that it looked like the checks were given at the same time, a bunch of them.
MARY HULL: They could have, based on being sequential.
MR. RASHBAUM: And that would maybe be because the person giving them didn't want to see the other person that often, right?
MARY HULL: That'd be one reason. It could be a reason, yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: Let's talk a little bit about the cash increases in her account.
MR. RASHBAUM: Now, you saw a spike in the cash increase. The biggest spike was the month after Professor Markel's murder, correct?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: But the cash just kept on coming, right?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: And when you do the math by the year, it seems that she was getting paid in cash around $2,000 a month, right?
MARY HULL: It varied, but yeah, for the most part it's right around $2,000 a month.
MR. RASHBAUM: Right? Basically?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: I mean, to a tee, right? I mean, let's look at it. If you look at 2015, for example, you have our cash deposits at $26,000 and change, right?
MARY HULL: Right.
MR. RASHBAUM: 12 months, $2,000 a month, that's $24,000. And in 2016, you have our cash deposits at around just under $12,000 a month, right? I mean, sorry, just under $12,000 for the year, right?
MARY HULL: Yes, correct.
MR. RASHBAUM: And you have those deposits stopping in May.
MARY HULL: That's right.
MR. RASHBAUM: I'm not great at math, but that's about six months, right?
MARY HULL: Right.
MR. RASHBAUM: Now, If Magbanua had testified today that she never got paid any cash after the first month, according to your forensic analysis, that would be a complete lie, right?
MARY HULL: Yes, it would.
MR. RASHBAUM: Let me ask you, when you do these graphs, the word "murder" isn't scientific, right?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. RASHBAUM: It could easily say "extortion" as well, correct?
MARY HULL: I suppose, yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: You talk about these piles and it possibly being a same safe. You don't know all the money was in the same safe, right?
MARY HULL: No, that's just — they were moved from one pile to another.
MR. RASHBAUM: Couldn't that be not a real pile?
MARY HULL: What do you mean?
MR. RASHBAUM: Well, parents, when they're leaving things to their kids, if someone lends them money, might they make a notation so that, if they die before paying them back, they would put in their pile that they lent money to them?
MARY HULL: I suppose. But it does reference "pile" in a... in a safe.
MR. RASHBAUM: Did you ever see any safe that had piles of cash with different Adelson names on it?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. RASHBAUM: Have you ever heard of people assigning certain items to their children when they die?
MARY HULL: Sure.
MR. RASHBAUM: May I have one moment, Your Honor?
MR. RASHBAUM: We talked about that $2,000 of cash every month, remember?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. RASHBAUM: And if you add that $2,000 of cash every month with the $1,000 of Adelson checks, what would that equal?
MARY HULL: $3,000.
MR. RASHBAUM: Would it surprise you that Katherine Magbanua was paid $3,000 every month by Charlie Adelson?
MARY HULL: Would it surprise me? No.
MR. RASHBAUM: In fact, it would be consistent with your forensic analysis, right?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. RASHBAUM: I have no further questions.
JUDGE EVERETT: Redirect examination.
MS. DUGAN: Defense counsel asked you about Rivera not having a cash buy. Did Rivera have a habit of depositing cash into his accounts?
MARY HULL: No, he did not.
MS. DUGAN: Did you look at the cash deposits for Katherine Magbanua every day for 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And are all of those spreadsheets also in here, in addition to everything that we saw on the PowerPoint?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And does she have, kind of what it seemed the defense was indicating, like a $2,000 payment in cash at one time every month?
MARY HULL: No, they were always broken up. I think the highest deposit she ever put in was $2,000, though.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So in this report, are each cash deposit she makes by day for every year, and are they all different amounts?
MARY HULL: Yes, some as low as $43, some as high as $1,000.
MS. DUGAN: Yes. Okay. And so it wasn't a situation where she was coming to the bank every month, one day a month, and putting in $2,000?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. That was the accumulation of all of the money throughout those years that we saw.
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. If she was being just given a one $2,000 payment in cash every month, would it make sense to deposit that, or would it make sense to go back to the bank 20 different times that month with $40 and $50 and $600 and $700? What would make more sense?
MARY HULL: It would seem... well, I think she was trying to hide the fact she was putting in cash and flying under the radar, so she was breaking it up. So I don't know what she had to start with, but I just can only show what she was putting in the account in small increments to several accounts, sometimes the same day.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And looking at the cash that she was putting in, could this have been cash that she was — well, let me ask you this.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. When you looked at the messages from the iCloud, a couple of which we saw, was she asking Charlie Adelson for different favors?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Was she asking Charlie Adelson at times for cash or for loans?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Were these friendly exchanges between the two?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: Was she ever demanding anything from him?
MARY HULL: No, I don't think so.
MS. DUGAN: And were many times he was offering — was he offering to do favors for her, or different nice things for her, providing her with things?
MARY HULL: They seem to have a good relationship.
MS. DUGAN: Defense asked if the possible explanation for the sequential checks could be that she was getting paid a bunch at a time by someone who didn't want to see her very often. Would another possible explanation be that she wasn't actually working there, and someone was just handing her a bunch of checks at a time when they didn't see her?
MARY HULL: I suppose that's possible too.
MS. DUGAN: That's all I have.
JUDGE EVERETT: Is Ms. Hull to be recalled by either party?
JUDGE EVERETT: You may step down, ma'am. Members of the jury, need a break before we continue, please raise your hand. All right, the bailiff will take you to the jury room. We'll resume with the testimony in 10 minutes.
JUDGE EVERETT: Everyone can be seated.