1.Patrick Sanford — Direct (Part 2)
2,211 linesPROCEEDING
JUDGE WHEELER: Good morning. Please be seated.
Okay. We are on the record this morning in State of Florida v. Katherine Magbanua, 2016CF3036, 2018cF497. Ms. Magbanua is present, along with her counsel, and counsel for the State.
Okay. The first thing that I want to address are the two exhibits that I reviewed last night that the State is going to offer into evidence. It's Exhibit 128, which is a telephone call of the agent to the Adelson Institute, and then Exhibit 134, which is a phone call from Charlie Adelson to the undercover agent.
Okay. I have reviewed both of those and, Ms. Cappleman, does the State want to put their argument on the record, please?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, Your Honor. In reference to State's Exhibit 128, that is a law enforcement bump subsequent to the bump we've already talked about, the main bump that started this. This was an additional bump in the form of the undercover calling the Adelson Institute and speaking to an employee there in an effort to drum up some more conversation on the wire.
This bump will be discussed by the parties in the calls that have already been admitted by the Court, calls U and V, after the bump, reference the bump, so I think it's relevant to show what they're talking about.
And then do you want me to move on to 134, Your Honor?
JUDGE WHEELER: well, why isn't it for the truth of the matter asserted in -- by its content?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So, the undercover is basically saying, you know, I'm leaving a message for Donna Adelson to, you know --
JUDGE WHEELER: There's really not a whole lot of content to it?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yeah, it's just to stimulate more discussion. And the parties are going to be talking about, oh, this undercover is reaching out again. I mean, of course they don't know he's an undercover. It's not for the truth, because he is undercover posing as a gangster calling the Adelson Institute for the purpose of the ruse as we've discussed before.
So, it's a very similar agreement to what we were making in reference to the initial bump, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. What about 134?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: 134 is Charlie Adelson's call to the undercover. This occurs between call X and Y on our existing Exhibit 99, and it's important to show that Charlie has reached out to the undercover, and his assessment of that call is that, you know, he's basically determined this is law enforcement, an undercover operation by law enforcement, and that assessment is going to be discussed several times throughout the wire in the subsequent calls that Your Honor has ruled were admissible. So I think it's relevant to add context to the discussions among the parties, and the change of the tenor between, you know, what should we do about this, it could be this, it could be that, versus, you know, now we think it is law enforcement.
JUDGE WHEELER: Mr. DeCoste?
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor, we still maintain that these are being entered for the truth of the matter asserted. we know that from the government's questions yesterday. For example -- and I'm going to tie this into these new calls -- they asked Agent Sanford, was ex-girlfriend said? Yes. Was Katie said? No. They are saying they're not entering it for the truth of the matter, but they absolutely are.
with respect -- one second, Your Honor.
(Pause in proceedings.)
MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, with respect to the calls of the undercover, if they're just trying to establish that there was communication that led to more communication, they don't need the content of the communications themselves.
And then one final note, and I hope this doesn't come off as repetitive, the fact that law enforcement was doing a ruse does not mean that the statements made by the people involved in the ruse are somehow untruthful and that they can't be offered for the truth of the matter. Law enforcement had a ruse. It doesn't carry over into those individuals. That's all, Your Honor. And all previous argument and motions.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. Thank you, Mr. DeCoste. Both exhibits will be admissible. Neither one is for the truth of the matter asserted. Exhibit 128 is presented to show that there's an additional bump. There's really not much contact to that -- much context or content to that telephone call at all, and it's -- and Exhibit 134 is not a whole lot of content to that either and -- but it's to add some context to the other phone calls and also to show that Charlie Adelson did reach out to the undercover agent. Not really what was said, because there is not a whole lot said, but the fact that he reached out, so it's not for the truth of the matter asserted. So both will be admissible.
All right. So, Ms. Cappleman, you're going to go right into the audio/video this morning; is that correct?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. Anything that we need to discuss from the State's perspective before we bring the jury in?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I don't think so, Judge.
JUDGE WHEELER: Anything from the Defense?
MR. DECOSTE: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Thank you. Let's bring the jury in, please.
Ms. Cappleman, we can bring Mr. Sanford back on the stand?
(Jury in courtroom.)
JUDGE WHEELER: Good morning, everyone. Good to see everybody. Thank you for your timeliness. You may be seated.
we're going to continue with the testimony, and we're going to swear Mr. Sanford in again so, Madam Clerk.
whereupon, PAT SANFORD was called as a witness, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
JUDGE WHEELER: Thank you. Please be seated. And Ms. Cappleman, you may proceed.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION CONT.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So when we left off yesterday, we had a meeting occurring between Katherine Magbanua and Charlie Adelson. This is the restaurant meeting with all the clanging dishes, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Tell us, I think you were saying that when they first met up, there was some time for them to talk that was not recorded, or no effort was being made. Can you tell us about that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. When he pulled up in the parking lot, she came out of Optimal Realty and went to his vehicle and got into his vehicle and was in his vehicle approximately ten minutes before they got out and then went into the restaurant.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And once they went into the restaurant, is that when the agents went in and positioned themselves to try to get as close as they could to the two speakers?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time, I'd ask to publish State's Exhibit 116?
JUDGE WHEELER: You may publish.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And may I ask the Court to inquire whether everyone was able to hear on the headphones and work the equipment?
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. Everybody good with the headphones? All right. Again, we have the volumes there, so sometimes these were made at different time periods, so they might be a little bit different volume, but please just communicate with each other if we need to make any adjustments to those. Okay?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And, Judge, I think since this one's a little tougher to hear, I'll do the same thing I did yesterday, which is play about a minute, let you guys have a chance to adjust your volume, and then we'll start it again.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. So we'll do that. If anybody has an issue, just please raise your hand and we'll make sure we take care of it. Okay?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And, Judge, did we take care of the issue with the chair as well?
JUDGE WHEELER: We're still working on that, unfortunately, but we will take care of it by lunchtime. They've assured me that. Okay? All right. I apologize for that.
MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, may I inquire, is this being played from the beginning?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: This is the middle -- we're starting with the middle segment, Judge, which is the first place we can actually make out words.
JUDGE WHEELER: ATI right.
(Video recording published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Video begins:)
(Inaudible).
(video stopped.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Anything we can do about that?
MS. DUGAN: I'll just try to turn the volume up.
JUDGE WHEELER: Let's just make sure that the jurors’ volume -- All right? So, I just want to make sure everybody's volume is good. Okay? Let's let the jurors adjust the volume, if they need it. Let's start from the beginning again.
(video recording published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Video begins:)
CHARLIE ADELSON: If they had any evidence, they would've already knocked on your door. The problem is, even if they bug this, even if they bug your home phone, nobody's going to Cinaudible). But even if they
(inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: But even if they bug your phone, (inaudible). Even if they bug your phone, you're still not talking about anything. So my point is, how do you get people to talk? You throw a smoke grenade, and then you get all the cockroaches to run out, ah, ah, there's smoke in the house, there's smoke in the house. And everyone's running and everyone's talking. And you throw a smoke grenade, what do you think? Listen, if that's what it was, it's very smart, because that -- that means -- my mom hasn't told my dad anything, by the way. My mom -- my dad's going to flip out when he finds out. But my mom hasn't told my dad anything.
But normally, obviously, if that was a cop that came and spoke to my mom Cinaudible). That that night, when he comes home from work, she would say, well, guess who I (inaudible) guess who gave me a little visit when I'm taking the grandkids to school? And then --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- after she dropped them off -- she was walking home, and she dropped them off and was walking back by herself. So this person had to be -- because the thing is, a lot of times my mom takes them home, drives them to school, the kids. This person knew her routine, knows who she is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. Someone may have come up to the office. My dad works Monday/wednesday, Tuesday/wednesday. Like, you know, it's probably either, get him on the beach or get him at the office up there. They may have approached my mom because my dad may be someone who's carrying a gun. You never know if someone's -- you know, you don't want to start a fucking shootout, you know?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) if you want me to
(inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I mean, I can say -- well, I carry on me. I mean, if someone comes up to me --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Do you carry it on you right now? I mean, I'm going to start carrying one on my back. Like, you know the holster that fits in your back? If someone comes up to me, they better be ready to shoot because I'm going to be shooting. If someone comes up to me asking for money right now --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah (inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, and when the -- guess what, when the fucking police show up and there's a doctor, there's an oral surgeon standing there with a dead gang member in his fucking driveway, they're not going to come down too hard on me. And I'm not going to talk anyway. I don't -- I don't -- no one's going to threaten me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I could -- Katie, this is -- this is not like some -- some chick showing off tattoos to your man. Like, this is fucking -- this is happening, Katie, I'm serious. Because these people are going to come back. They -- they didn't go through the trouble of seeking my mom out to hand her that and then go away.
So, I got two options: They're not going away. we may wish they'd go away and never come back, but they ain't going away. The trouble they went through --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: They want their Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: well --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: with a beard or with a badge?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Ejither/or.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, I don't -- look, if a badge comes up to you, tell them, have a nice day, officer. Listen, if they want to charge me with something, charge me. If not, I don't talk to cops. Sorry.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You know, prove it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: No. It's -- it's very simple, like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- if you're going to charge me, charge me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) charge me.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, but things are changing a lot with all -- you know what's changed a lot? There's Cameras everywhere. So cops now, they have a fucking pension. when they retire, they're going to get a pension for the next 30 years. Medical, dental, and salary every month. If they think that, you know, the cameras -- look, how many cameras are here? Five? You know? I mean, they better be doing it in a place where there's not a chance that someone doesn't have a camera pointing outside Cinaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: what -- what I'm saying is, is that this person is not going away and they came very equipped with details. where did the details come from? I don't know. These details, I don't --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Well, because it's one of two things. You go to the cops and you give them information. Okay. I'm going to tell them that my brother is who did it. I'‘11l go right now and tell them. They're going to say, can you prove it? Then I'm going to say, no. Do you know what kind of gun was used? I'm going to say, no. Did you see your brother do it? No. How do you know it was him? He told me. Okay. He told you. That's called second-hand knowledge. It's not even admissible. Okay. He told me. what did he tell you? He said, I did it. Even if I went in and said, my brother said he did it, you've got to prove it. You've got to put the person at the scene. You got to understand, in order to prove it, you have to put that person at the scene at the time. Not in the car. Because the fact is, is like, even if -- let's say you just have my car, right? And then I go ahead and I commit a crime. And then I go -- and you're getting into the car and I go, yeah, Katie was in my car and she got out and she did this horrible crime. Okay. Then they come and they get the DNA in the car. They go, yep, Katie was in the car. No. Katie sat in the car for two minutes, got in the AC and then got out of the car. Katie had nothing to do with me robbing the Burger King (inaudible). So, even if I can prove that, yeah, Katie was with me, can you put Katie at the Burger King? I can put Katie -- say that she sat in the car, yeah.
what you need to do is -- they get that little bit of evidence from you having been in the car, and then when they bring you in for the interrogation, they're like, we know you were in that fucking car, you know, on such-a-such a day that you were in that car. So even if your DNA, your fingerprints, your fucking hair is all over that fucking car, that proves, yeah, congratulations, you were in the car. It's not a crime to sit in aocar. Okay. Do you know what I mean? My mom could have sat in the car too. It's not a crime. They have to prove it. They have to put you in the scene at the date.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Tu-- they said the guy's name was Tuo. I don't even know who the fuck it is. They said it was Tuo. Tuto's incarcerated now and I know that you've been helping out Katie, and your family's been helping out Katie and her family. Now Tuto's family needs your help. My mom was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And he goes, well, maybe this will refresh your memory. And he handed it to her --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: And she said (inaudible). He's well-spoken, like he's polite. She's goes, he's polite and well-spoken. I said, did he have like -- did he act thug or did he talk with like a thick Spanish accent or anything? And she said, no. I said, was he white or Hispanic? She said he was white, but he could have been Hispanic. But, no --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, just his face. I mean, everyone in Miami is Hispanic, so it's like -- you can't -- you can't tell. I talk to you on the phone, it's like talking to some, like, you know, Maria Maria from west Side Story. But, look, it could have been -- right. So he wasn't -- you know, wasn't (inaudible) skin. He wasn't -- he had the fucking Cinaudible) pulled down. He was very recognizable.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, so (inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: with no glasses. I said, what about -- like no glasses, no hat, you know, well -- she said well dressed.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: He was well dressed?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, it wasn't like you would have looked at him and be like, oh, he's a thug. No. She said he was wearing like a shirt and had kind of like a little vest and kind of like a little jacket over it. She said he was broad. My mom's like, he was big. My mom's walking this way. My mom goes to the right, he goes like this, standing in front of her. My mom's like, oh, sorry, sir. Like this. And she goes -- my mom's like, sorry. He's like, Mrs. Adelson? She's like, yes? He goes, I need to talk with you. Okay. So my mom thought it was like a process server.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay? She said it was --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Katie, for $19, if I entered your mom's name and address in a fucking computer, it costs $19 to find out where they had probably rented an apartment under their name. So it's probably in the registry or whatever. So it's like, you know when you're online and it's like $19 or $29.99, find anyone when you want? That's all you do. And it shows where they're registered at and then you locate them. And you go online, you pull up a picture, and you sit outside and wait. And you know what their kids look like, because that's -- they're online too.
So --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: So --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Katie, they'll be back. And then all of a sudden, these people go -- like, whoever it is, knows information.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible). And there's not a lot of people that Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: They didn't mention my name. It makes me think -- makes me think they don't -- these people only know part of a story, or they think they know part of a story.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Do you think that (inaudible). No. Let me ask a question. when everybody was there the next day Cinaudible) didn't take any money? It's not like you're driving around in a Bentley, cruising around in a mega-yacht. You know? Some of these people (inaudible) at some point, because otherwise we have no idea who's saying Cinaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) describing it, that means (inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, you could know some things but not any -- any -- the problem is this, that -- okay. So go tell the cops. They're going to ask you, where's the weapon at? And you're going to say, I don't know. Do you know who pulled the trigger? You can say a name. Okay. How can you -- were you with -- did you witness it? You're going to say, no. So you didn't witness it. You only heard a rumor on the street that this person did something. You know what that's worth? Zero. And then what you do is, you wear a wire, get this person talking, and if you can get the person to confess on wire, then you have something in your cart. You have a confession. You have an admission of guilt.
Outside of that, there's no evidence. Okay? Did -- you know, if you have a car and you can link this person to renting that car that was used at the scene of the crime, okay, but, you know, you have to prove that they were also driving that day too and they never rented it and lent it to a friend. what if you rented a car today, I go, Katie, can I just -- can I borrow it for the weekend and I'll bring it back on Tuesday? You go, yeah, sure. So you rented a car. You've been in that car. I drive it to fucking Orlando. I rob the McDonald's in Orlando. I come back and I go, here's the keys, Katie. And you go, okay, thanks. Yeah, you rented it, but -- but what if you were fucking out all weekend and didn't even know I took your car and I did something and I brought it back?
Okay. My point is, I don't have any knowledge of what went on. Evidently this person's either pretending to or does. I don't want someone paying visits to my parents.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: It could. It could. I wish it was a cop playing games. why didn't they know it was me? If it was a cop playing games or an investigator playing games, they didn't mention me. They did mention her son's girlfriend, Katie. Did not mention me at all. Mentioned -- said, my family. Okay? I think if they thought I had something to do with it, they would find me and they'd talk to me. You know what I'm saying? Like, go talk to the person who's involved, not talk to people who aren't involved. And I'm not involved.
But even if they knew -- if they knew -- but if they knew our -- your -- your relationship is with me, not my family. Like, I dated you, not my mom (inaudible). This person obviously doesn't even know that we dated. That's a direct connection is, who was her boyfriend. The 71-year old guy, Dr. Adelson, or the 37-year old guy? (Inaudible). That's who you talk to. Don't waste your time with momma. They needed to talk Cinaudible). wouldn't that make sense that the only connection to my family is me actually? Your connection to my family is not my mom. Like, yeah, you work for the office now because the checks Cinaudible). And that's just because you come in and work on the weekends, which I trust that you're doing because I'm never there. When I see you, you tell me you do it and the place looks clean, so you get your checks. You clean up, whatever.
But that's neither here nor there. This person knows information. And even if they are cops Cinaudible) that information (inaudible). (Inaudible) said your name. And they also know that -- they're claiming that somebody, you know, had something to do with it is incarcerated. I don't know anybody who's incarcerated.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: My point is, I don't want this coming back. I don't have a problem helping the community out. I don't want the community to come back next month. And what I think happens if we pay the money, they're going to be back again and again and again and say that they want money. (Inaudible) not a cop. very aggressive if it is a cop. If it's a cop, I'm happy because I got nothing to hide. Okay? If it's nota cop --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) simple.
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible). And you've got to understand something, Cinaudible). Katie, there's no evidence. And they sit down and they tell the police what happened. First they're going to ask my parents to take a lie detector test, which they won't do, just for the simple reason that those things give false positives all the time, which, unfortunately, makes you look bad because it's like, okay, you know, we're just -- we just feel that way, that lie detector tests are not accurate. But 99 percent of people, they have nothing to hide, take a lie detector test. It makes you look bad if they're like, Katie, you want to take a lie detector test, and you shot JFK. And you're like, yeah, I'll fucking take your test and I'm going home afterwards. All right? Make it quick. Okay? Because you didn't shoot JFK, so --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right. And, you know, you're -- right. But let me explain something to you. If we go to the police, this is going to put the spotlight (inaudible). The FBI -- and we're talking a big-wig from the FBI. Not like the first-year rookie. You're going to have a 20-year vet with the FBI knocking at your door wanting to speak to you, and wanting to speak (inaudible). This is -- made fucking -- this made not only national news. This was on -- this was in London. My family in London was calling us. You know what BBC news is? British Broadcasting News? This was on the BBC news.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. That doesn't matter. This made the BBC news. This was on Good Morning America. This was on the New York Times. This was a big story. So, well, listen, you didn't do anything. I didn't do anything. Now prove it. Next question, prove it. And I don't -- I don't have time to talk with the news. You want to arrest me, fucking arrest me. I'm not going to sit here and show you photos of dick pictures I took of myself. Like, I mean, why can't you have my phone? Because I got a bunch of nude photos of myself on my phone. You're not looking at dick pictures of myself all day too. why don't you come back with a warrant and you can look at all the dick pictures you want of me. I'm serious, I don't want them laughing at my pee-pee.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: The point is, okay, I don't like cops, and you're not getting my dick pics of myself, so have a nice day. That's my answer. Okay? If you think I did something, arrest me and charge me and that's it. Okay? That's it. Now, I don't want these people coming back -- if they are cops, I'm happy, because I've got nothing to hide. If they're a bad guy, theres's two ways of dealing with this situation. One is, go ahead and contact Miami Beach Police Department.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay? They'll contact this guy, they'll talk to him on the phone, and they'll arrange for things to be set up.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And when it's set up, it's going to be like the fucking SwAT team and fucking FBI. They're going to fucking take this guy down, and then they will offer him ten years because we just have you on tape extorting somebody, and now tell us everything you know or you're going to serve ten years in prison. Is it worth it?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Next thing you know, this person is a snitch, and people -- other people start singing. As soon as they have him, he starts calling your name out. well, my parents know, they're going to have to say, yeah, the guy came, they said that -- they're going to ask us the story of what happened. There's going to be police, okay, at your door, at my door. It's going to be --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: My name (inaudible) --
CHARLIE ADELSON: They're going to want to come after them. They're going to check out anybody who got bailed out of jail. (Inaudible) bailed out of jail. And then they're going to be -- it's not going to be cops. It's going to be big boys flying in to see what they can come up with. Okay? And then that's probably going to make the newspaper. I want to give them the money, but I don't want it to evolve into next Tuesday he's asking for
(inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: So this was my idea. I give you money. You contact (inaudible). Listen. Listen to what I'm -- listen to why I'm saying it. This is why I'm saying it. I give you money, you talk to him on the phone, she is (inaudible) say -- I'm just -- because my head is fucking spinning. So you now know that -- I know whoever this guy is. I don't know who he is. And these people are going to -- say, my friend -- say, I got -- you can call the guy up and say, I got a call from so-and-so. I gota call from somebody saying you reached out to them. That's all I want you to say. I got a call from so-and-so that you reached out. These people had --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: This is what I want you to do. I want you to call up this person and say that I got a call from some friends of mine who say that you reached out to them and that you mentioned my name. And remember, remember, your job is to protect (inaudible). Okay? So, what you're going to say is, I got a call from some friends of mine who said that you reached out and that you had mentioned my name. These people want to go to the police because they had nothing to do with what you're talking about. Okay? And, frankly, I don't know what you're talking about, but the name sounds familiar of who's incarcerated. So, I probably can give you something as charity to help the less fortunate. But do not contact these people again or they're going to the police.
And let him know you had to do everything in the world to prevent these people from going to the police. Because they don't know anything. I don't know anything. And that you -- the name sounds a little familiar, and that I'm going to help you out with some charity, and don't ever contact me, my friends, or my family again. we will go to the police.
That way he gets the money. He also knows that you know everything. That you may have a friend who may not be so cool with what's going on too. He may know people that knows how to handle people like this. And that this is a fucking one-time thing, and this is charity to help somebody out, less fortunate -- you believe in Karma -- and that's the only reason it's being done. If it happens again, they're going to bring it to the police.
And then the whole time you're talking, you just say, I don't know at all what's going on. I was just called. I'm very shaken over this. (Inaudible), and I told them that we're going to try to help these people. But that's it. You don't use anything other than the words "help" and "charity." And that you're going to ask that you leave these people alone or they are going to the police.
That's all I was able to come up with. Because if they're police, they can't take the money. They can't take the money. They won't even come meet you. They fucked up. If it's this guy, maybe in the back of his -- he knows and he can fuck off times a million. And then now he's fucking with his wife and he's fucking with him, and you fuck with Cinaudible) himself, you better kill him because you're going to be in big trouble. And he knows who people are, and if he can't do it, he'll have someone else do it.
And so help me God, if they fuck with my family, it's going to be like fucking Nazi shit, because it will be dealt with. Do you know what I'm saying? TI mean, Katie, I don't care what I spend. Okay? TI swear to God, if -- Katie -- Katie --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: This person doesn't know
(inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Now Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: This person knows -- they feel like they know a little bit. Maybe, maybe not. I think they either --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible). what? No. (Inaudible) .
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) information (inaudible) as a deterrent.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right. So he knows I have you on salary. (Inaudible). You think he'd be happy to know that Cinaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) because they know that I need it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: He doesn't have any bad feelings towards me, does he? Our paths never crossed. I didn't know the two of you when you were together. It's not like I'm --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: He's not like that.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You know, where it's like, yeah, I fucking was around when you guys were together, and I hopped in when he walked out. Like, that's a different story.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's disrespectful.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: There's no --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible). If anything
(inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I mean, he (inaudible) and that's without even saying -- I don't even Cinaudible). You know what I'm saying? Like you know it. I don't even have to -- I don't have to sit here and tell you what I would do. I could show you what I'd do. You know what I'm saying? Like I am -- you know who I am. Right? I -- I look for things to do. You don't ask me for shit. I'm the one that's like, hey, Noah's birthday's coming up, I got you. You know? I'm the one who's like, anything I can -- you know, you don't ask. I'm the one who's like, hey, I'll sell you the Lexus for a very good price. I know you're having car problems. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm the one who -- I don't have -- I don't have to tell you. TI show you.
So what do you think? (Inaudible) my mom (inaudible). He needs to know that it's going to go down one of the two ways, like, you're either fucking with me or you're fucking with the police. Pick which one. And -- yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: He threatened. He said -- he said -- he said Tuto is incarcerated and I know that your family -- and he helped your family out, and I know you've been helping Katie out. Your family's been helping --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Your family has been helping Katie out, and his family needs some help now. My mom was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And he says, well, maybe this will help explain it to you. Call me. And he handed it to her. He did not go through that trouble of finding her and putting that thing together and handing it to her without -- and then just going to go away? He ain't going away.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: TI said (inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, if it's -- listen, if it's the cops --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: well --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: The problem is, you get into -- like if my mom meets him, right, okay, I'll meet you tomorrow in front of a huge building and he just drives up and she hands him the 5G, what the fuck do you think's going to happen next month? It's going to be, oh, we need your help again. You know what I mean? And the thing is, if my parents really were guilty, they may think they have a big fish on the line to pay them monthly. All they have to do is scare this little old lady. who's she going to go to? Is she going to go to the cops? She's guilty as hell. You have to let them know that these people are not afraid of going to the cops? They've got nothing to hide. Okay?
So, you're the one they reached out to and they said -- and you need to say, they reached out to me because you mentioned my name.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: why would you ever think (inaudible). why would somebody (inaudible). That would have been more like personal.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'm more afraid now of the long-term, like, knock at the door again and again and again and again. This is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: why not? Because I don't think they want to mess with me. It's -- he's got a lot of connections. He is like so far removed that --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Like he is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah Cinaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: He doesn't have -- because he doesn't have anybody that he can call up unless he still has people. You -- listen, you giving somebody some money is not an admission of any kind of guilt. It's like, listen, if you gave me money now Cinaudible) this is the one and only time Cinaudible). I don't know what this is about. This is Cinaudible) telling you -- you know how you just say things about Cinaudible), but like just the way he said it, like, he said, he needs your help. He was there for you. And his family needs your help now.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, like he just -- he didn't want -- he didn't want to scare her. He didn't scare her. But this is the part that you don't understand, my mom had diarrhea all night. She hasn't been eating and she's been up since 2:00 in the morning with diarrhea.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Of course (inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Like, how do you think I feel, my mom is 65-years-old, been up since 2 in the morning with fucking diarrhea.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: You what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI don't know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know. TI have it Cinaudible). when I was leaving the house, I literally had the bag out and I had it in my (Cinaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I -- I know. well, if you want, you guys can swing by my house later.
So, what do we do?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I don't know. (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I want you to make a pact right now Cinaudible) and I'm going to give you cash. I don't want you to talk to Cinaudible). Good?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: well -- what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible). what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Unless it's a real number. I mean, the guy didn't have glasses or a hat. I thought he was someone else (inaudible). Yeah, which shocked me too, that he's going to (inaudible). well -- so they could see Cinaudible). But let me just put it this way: These kind of things, when you blackmail somebody, you're putting yourself out there --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- so that's the only reason. Because if you're blackmailing someone, someone's got a couple options: Either take care of you, or -- hey, and if you're blackmailing somebody who's had no problem possibly doing that, hey -- look, blackmail somebody who's banging their secretary. Okay? Not -- blackmail somebody over fucking, like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: My office -- my office in the morning, and then L'm in Westin in the afternoon. I know, I'm going in to do a special Cinaudible).
But it's like, if you're going to -- like, if you're going to blackmail someone, blackmail someone that's cheating on their wife. Don't Cinaudible) -- because the thing is, these are the big boys. Like, if this is what it actually revolves -- this is what I'm saying. If this is what it's actually revolving around, okay, it's actually revolving around this horrible Cinaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, but this is what I'm saying. If you're blackmailing somebody who potentially has the ability to get something like this done, you've got a fucking set of balls, because they may make you shut up real quick. which makes me think, without a doubt, he's not the only -- he didn't come there alone. He came there with somebody else. You know what I'm saying?
And then this is the next thing. You ready? what about -- so what if his home boys offed somebody? All he does is, walks up and he goes, Ms. Adelson, so-and-so's family needs help. Meanwhile, this dude's family ain't getting shit. we just get a bunch of scumbags knocking on my door going, somebody needs help. well, guess what? I don't have anything to do with what happened down there. You don't. I don't know anyone who does. I don't know who Tuto is they're talking about. Okay? Like, I don't know these people.
So, my point is, the problem is, once you pay, you're going to get every fucking Tom, Dick, and Harry showing up, going, hey, somebody needs help. Go to the fucking police. I don't care. Go to the police. Tell them what you know. I'1Il tell them what I know. Nothing. Because TI don't.
(Inaudible) happy when the FBI's knocking on your door at five in the morning. And you know where this is coming from? Inside. I don't know anybody that's got that bad Cinaudible) -- just the (inaudible). Yeah.
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Agent Sanford, did you hear anyone in that recording say the name, Dan Markel?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I didn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did anyone say the word, murder?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I didn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you hear Charlie Adelson explain the background of this, meaning that his brother-in-law was murdered and his family is suspected to be involved?
JUDGE WHEELER: Hold on.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, motions in limine, improper opinion, evidence speaks for itself.
JUDGE WHEELER: He can give his opinion as to -- he can give his statement as to what he heard, but we're not getting into any specific statements that are going to be translated in the video. That's up to the jury to decide. But he can give his assessment of the video. I'll going to allow that.
You may proceed.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So the question is, as far as what we're able to hear here, is there any background explanation to Katherine, meaning, you know, there was a murder of my brother-in-law in Tallahassee and my family is suspected to be involved?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, speculation. There is a half hour that can't be heard at the beginning.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Of what we can hear in this recording, do you hear Charlie Adelson explaining to Katherine Magbanua anything like the background of this investigation, such as, my brother-in-law was murdered in Tallahassee, my family is suspected, to explain why it is that this person might be trying to blackmail his mother?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I do not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: To explain why it is that this could be a law enforcement sting on his family?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct, I did not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And the Defense mentioned that there was time beforehand where we can't hear anything, time in the car, and some time on the video where we can't hear what they're saying, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And are you familiar with the sworn statement given by this Defendant back in October of 2019?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what did she say at that time regarding when it +was that she, for the first time ever, learned that Dan Markel was, in fact, murdered?
PATRICK SANFORD: She said it was not until Sigfredo Garcia was arrested is when she found out about the Dan Markel murder.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And on what day was Sigfredo Garcia arrested?
PATRICK SANFORD: I have to refer to my notes. I believe it was in May in 2016.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May 25th, 2016?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And so according to her, she did not even know that this victim, Dan Markel, had been murdered, that there even was a murder when this recording was made?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Or during the wire, any of the wire that we're going to hear, up until that May 25th date?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And at the time that the Defendant made that statement, I didn't even know there was a murder, had we clarified this video that we just watched right now?
PATRICK SANFORD: Clarified, as far as, enhanced?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Had Keith McElvine (phonetic) done the work that we just watched?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he had not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And they are referencing the murder itself on this recording, aren't they?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, leading.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Are you aware of any other incident that Charlie Adelson could be referencing that was on the BBC, Good Morning America, and the New York Times other than the murder of Daniel Markel?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, improper questions and gross speculation and argumentive.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Are you aware of any other incident that Charlie Adelson could be referencing on this video that was on the BBC, Good Morning America, and the New York times?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I'm not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time, I would like to move on to our call F. ~=BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Agent Sanford, can you tell us who are the parties on call F?
PATRICK SANFORD: This is a call from Charlie Adelson to Donna Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And how close in time is this call to the meeting with Katherine Magbanua that we just watched?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's afterwards --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sorry, go ahead.
PATRICK SANFORD: Sorry, it's afterward. I would have to refer to my notes to know the exact times.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Please refer to your notes. If you can use them to refresh you on how close in time this call that we're about to hear is to the Dolce meeting we just watched.
PATRICK SANFORD: The Dolce meeting was around 3:45 on the 20th, and it was about an hour long. This call that we're going to listen to is about 4:56 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: 4:56 p.m.?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So within 10 or 15 minutes of Charlie Adelson departing from the meeting we just watched?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And he's calling Donna Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's publish call F at this time, please. Headphones, everyone.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
DONNA ADELSON: Hey, honey, how are you?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey, what's going on?
DONNA ADELSON: I'm sitting here watching the boys at their tennis Cinaudible). They are having a wonderful time.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Oh, that's awesome.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, but I was concerned because I thought they had only Cinaudible) private lessons, but they're having fun because, you know, there's six kids on the court, so -- and they're all about the same level, so they're having fun with this.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Oh, that's fantastic.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah. So, how is your day going?
CHARLIE ADELSON: It's good. It's good. I'm just leaving -- I just drank some coffee with a friend, and -- and it was good. I'm actually going to -- maybe -- everything's good.
DONNA ADELSON: Everything -- yeah --
CHARLIE ADELSON: So --
DONNA ADELSON: -- everything's fine?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, yeah. Just helping her out with some relationship advice, so --
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. She may come by and see me tomorrow actually too. She had to go back to work. So, I think she's going to come maybe to my office tomorrow or another office and talk to her some more. I gave her some good advice.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah?
CHARLIE ADELSON: And she's just sleeping on it.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay. Oh, good.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Relationships are not easy.
DONNA ADELSON: No, they're not. They're not.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So -- so that's it. So, everything's fine anyway. It's -- without a doubt, everything is fine.
DONNA ADELSON: Everything's good?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. Yeah, no -- no question in the world.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I would not --
DONNA ADELSON: Stress it?
CHARLIE ADELSON: No. Honest to god, I wouldn't. TI can talk to you more about it, but --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI mean, if you want, you can always come up to the -- well, you're going to be hanging out with dad tomorrow, right?
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, yeah, tomorrow -- what's tomorrow? Tomorrow is Thursday. Dad is off. Yeah, we're going to be doing a lot of stuff for the holiday, getting the dinner ready, a lot of recipes and a lot of cooking, and that's always a rough holiday to cook for. It's not an easy one. But --
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'm bringing ten lobsters and nobody complains.
DONNA ADELSON: You're probably right. No one would complain. well, it's only us and the kids and Dave, because Dave doesn't have the children.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Oh, really?
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah. So, it's just the boys and us and Dave.
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's awesome.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah. So, do you think everything will be good for Saturday night? The dinner should go well?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. I think, June -- well, you know June's trying out for the Cinaudible) cheerleaders.
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, no, I didn't.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. No, she's actually --
DONNA ADELSON: Is she a dancer?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Oh, my God, she's an awesome dancer. She made it to the fifth round last year and got cut in the last -- like literally, like when they have it down to like 60 girls and they take 45. I mean, you can imagine how many girls try out for it.
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, yeah. I've seen it on TV, the tryouts.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, there's like --
DONNA ADELSON: (Inaudible) all really good dancers.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. No, June's an awesome dancer. She goes to dance class like three days a week and she's been training real hard, and she's actually probably been training too hard because she pulled her hamstring like --
DONNA ADELSON: Oh. Oh, boy.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So -- no, she could do like head kicks and like double turns and splits and -- no, she's been a dancer for literally her whole life.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So, she made it -- this is her third time trying out, but she made it last time to the fifth round, which is the final round, and then didn't make it. It's always been her dream. So, Saturday --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah? Saturday when?
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, she's going to be trying out Saturday.
DONNA ADELSON: That's not yours. You have to -- one second. You have to go back and get your racket, honey. That -- he gave just that to use. Go back and get your two rackets because yours are too small. I'm sorry.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So, after the Dolphin tryouts, she's going to come to -- she may come. What time is it?
DONNA ADELSON: well, what time -- I want to do it early, because the kids don't stay up too late. So, 5:00, 5:30.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, because I'm planning on being up in West Palm at like 11, so I'm (inaudible) from 11 to 12, 12 to 1 to 2, home by 3:15.
DONNA ADELSON: well, you just tell me if you're coming because I'll set the table for her.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, I'll find out if she's coming or if she's going to -- maybe I could have her just drive herself after the tryouts.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay. Yeah. If she's coming --
CHARLIE ADELSON: It depends. I mean --
DONNA ADELSON: -- I just need to --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, she may get out at five and be in like gym clothes, and if that's the case, she's not obviously --
DONNA ADELSON: Right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible).
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So, that's the only reason why she wouldn't come. Otherwise, she will come.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay. No, I understand. It's not a problem. If you'll just let me know, because I'll set the table, set for one more.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'm excited for her. I hope she makes it.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah. Oh, my God, that's a very exciting thing.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. So that's how she knew -- that's how she knew Lauren's sister.
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, okay. Hold on one second. Guys, wait a minute, I have to ask Pat something for you. I have to see if the coach can take them on Monday. Let me just run out to the court for a second. I'm going to call you right back. Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay. Bye.
(End of call.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So that call concluded with Donna indicating she's going to call Charlie right back. Does she call him back?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, she does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And that's about five minutes later?
PATRICK SANFORD: correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And just to refresh everyone's memory, what date are we on here?
PATRICK SANFORD: 4/20.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So this is the day after the bump; is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right. If we could have call G, please. Headphones, everybody.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
DONNA ADELSON: Hi, honey. Sorry about that. I had to just schedule it for Monday.
Yeah, so --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Everything's good. I just -- so TI hung out with my friend and then she's going to sleep on some stuff and then she's going to come tomorrow to either my office or Thanos’ office and tell me how it works.
DONNA ADELSON: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. So, so I'll talk -- I'll talk to her tomorrow. wish me the best of luck.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah. So, you think she'll be okay? Is everything good for her?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, I told her, I mean -- look, I was explaining it to you, with relationships, they either go one or two ways, like --
DONNA ADELSON: Right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So, it's going to be one of two ways.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But --
DONNA ADELSON: How you want it?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
DONNA ADELSON: (Inaudible). That's fine. You can. All right. Charlie, I love you, doll.
CHARLIE ADELSON: what are they saying? You're welcome. So, I'm --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah. Hoping dad has a good day at the office.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Oh, yeah, yeah.
DONNA ADELSON: He just -- I like to -- I'd like him to have a good night's sleep, so --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
DONNA ADELSON: He works a long day. It was a long day.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But I truly would not worry about anything.
DONNA ADELSON: Wait a second. wait a second, honey. This little girl was on that. wait until she finishes and then you'll go on. You don't think so?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. No, without a doubt, I wouldn't.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay. TI hope so.
CHARLIE ADELSON: There's nothing -- there's nothing to worry about.
DONNA ADELSON: That's good. So you'll be up at the office -- you'll be at our office all day tomorrow?
CHARLIE ADELSON: From 11 to probably about 3, I'l] be gone.
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, really? Done for the day?
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, then I go to Thanos' office.
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, Thanos. Got you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. I hate this area, like (inaudible) and 95.
DONNA ADELSON: Very crowded?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Oh, my god, the traffic, to go from like -- I mean, literally, for me to go from like, you know, on Biscayne to like all the way to like 95, it's the same amount of time it takes me to go from my house to South Beach.
DONNA ADELSON: Wow.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Just east/west.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: It's better for me to go to South Beach from Fort Lauderdale than to be in Miami and go to the highway. I mean, it's strange (inaudible) schools and everything. So -- all right. (Inaudible).
DONNA ADELSON: Yes. No, that's -- they're swinging and I'm pushing as high as I can. That's the squeak of the swing.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right.
DONNA ADELSON: So I'm pushing them. The old grandma. All right. I love you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I love you too. I would worry about nothing.
DONNA ADELSON: Really?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. I'm telling you. I'm telling you, I would not --
DONNA ADELSON: Well, if your theory is correct, then that will be -- you know, we don't know that.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, listen, I mean, you have to realize something, it does them no good.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: At the end of the day, there's nothing -- they're not going to cheat -- they're not going to gain anything. They're still going to be in the same situation. And it's not like -- listen, it's not like you've ever threatened anybody or hurt anybody, so --
DONNA ADELSON: NO, no.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You know, and listen, the thing is this, is that they're not hiding who they are.
DONNA ADELSON: Right, not at all.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Not at all, so --
DONNA ADELSON: That's why I had that other
(inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: what's that?
DONNA ADELSON: That's why my thoughts were different.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. It's not really hidden who they are, and the whole thing is weird. I mean, the whole thing is very weird, because it's -- it's the kind of thing that could easily be traced --
DONNA ADELSON: Right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- that could easily be caught, and they easily will have charges put against them for (inaudible). Honestly, certain people, it's up to like ten years in prison. I don't know why they would make it -- you know, just make it so easy to -- it's really stupid. (Inaudible) secret.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, yeah, I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So, no, it's -- I think it's something that can be dealt with very -- it's not that bad.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: It could be a lot worse. Let me reference it to you like that.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So --
DONNA ADELSON: All right, sweetie pie. I will talk to you maybe tomorrow during the day or at night. You'll let me know --
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Sounds good.
DONNA ADELSON: -- if everything is good for the dinner.
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible). Okay.
DONNA ADELSON: Bye, bye. Love you.
(End of audio.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Agent Sanford, I want to ask you about the first conversation that's captured on the wire between Sigfredo Garcia and Katherine Magbanua. when was that conversation?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was on 4/21, the very next day, at approximately 8:17 a.m. in the morning.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And at the time, are the two of them living together?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So they've already had an opportunity to talk in private between the call with Katherine Magbanua -- I'm sorry, the meeting that we watched between Katherine Magbanua and Charlie Adelson and this call that we're about to hear?
JUDGE WHEELER: Hold on one second.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, speculation as to whether there was a chance --
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled. You can answer that. ~=BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Have Katherine Magbanua and Sigfredo Garcia had an opportunity, between the recording that we just watched of her meeting with Charlie and the call that we're about to hear, to speak in private?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. We were able to see them go home and they were at the house together that night.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So this call then occurs the next morning at, you said, 8:17 a.m.?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish call H, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Listen, I'm going to tell you something right now and I'm going to make this very clear --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm going to make something very clear because you're talking belligerent bullshit.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You're saying I'm belligerent?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm -- I'm going to make something very clear. Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) been up the whole night drinking and I'm drunk. You haven't spoken to me about anything and now you're going to come at me?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Why? Because you don't know how to apologize, because you were wrong.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) last night.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: This is the same thing that happened last time. Listen, I have a more pressing matter that I have to attend to. Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) I don't feel secure, because you take care of everybody else. where is my security, Tuto? when are you going to step up for me? when is that going to happen? Because I feel like everybody else, yes, (inaudible) the special attention, and then, Katie, you go figure it out. You go figure it out. You figure out the kids. You figure out life. You figure out --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Katie, Katie, Katie, you are so -- Katie, you're doing this again. This is the same shit. I've been here. I've never felt happier.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Every single time --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: we were so happy. We were so -- we were so happy.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You have to play pool. You have to leave me. You have to --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Oh, my god, Katie. All right. All right, man. All right. All right. Then fine, then go. Whatever. Fine. Go. If that's what you need to do to make yourself happy, then --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: To make myself --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- I'm not going to hold you back.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible). why do you have to go through like everything? After everything we went through, why does it have to go back to square one. Do you know how bad I feel? It's like, again, I feel like I'm getting --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Katie, Katie, Katie, listen, listen, I --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's always -- no. God, I swear to God, it's just like -- it's like I should just go somewhere because it's like you're basically --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Do that.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- Cinaudible).
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Do that.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You're screwing me over. You're going to tell me, I'm going to make a phone call.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm making that fucking phone call. Just --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But you don't talk to me.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Look, Katie, Katie, you --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm on edge, and I'm (inaudible) on edge again today. You don't think that --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: No. I'm pretty sure somebody come by to soothe you and make you feel better.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Are you talking --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Katie, listen --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Listen to --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Don't fucking -- don't fucking -- listen, I just want you to fucking have a pussy between your legs and act like you have -- if you want to fucking do what you want to do, do it. I'm going to take care of my -- I'm going to take care of this fucking problem. I'm going to take care of this fucking problem and --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: when are you going to take care of it though? You don't discuss anything with me. You're not even listening.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Because the less you know, the better off -- man, just stop talking on the phone, man. Bye.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's why, you can't even --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Bye.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You can't even tell me anything.
(End of audio.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And then we're going -- oh, I wanted to ask you -- I wanted to ask you about that beeping you hear, where it seems to cut in and out.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what is that?
PATRICK SANFORD: That is the -- the person who's monitoring the conversation, that's them minimizing it, stopping the recording of it and stopping listening to it, and then picking it back up a few minutes later like they're instructed to do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So the requirement is to tap out if it doesn't seem to be relevant to the investigation, and then after a certain period of time, you can pop back in and see if the tone has changed?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was there another call between these same two parties shortly after the one we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was at 8:36, approximately 10, 15 minutes later.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Publish call I, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I don't remember if it was -- I think -- I think, just in case, I think like you have to pay for Ethan's school. It's like -- because of the balance is $65.70.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I have to pay for it?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like I think, you remember that I wrote it down, the amount that you're supposed to put?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: You can't pay for it?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But I'm not sure if it's $60.57 or it's $65 or 70 cents.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm trying to get a secured credit card. Is there any way you could pay for it?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm just telling you, I don't remember if it's either one of those numbers.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: well, you're picking them up today, so --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Huh? So what?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: You're picking them up today, so you'll find out when you get there.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: The amount that I gave you on the piece of paper, I don't know if it's $60.57 or $65.70.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Got it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay? So, there's some credit cards that I can use in his school. So it makes no sense. You got it?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Understood.
(End of audio.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So, the digits that the Defendant is relaying to Sigfredo Garcia, it's either $65.70, or $60.57, et cetera, et cetera, are those digits significant to your investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, they are.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: why is that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Because that's the last four digits of the undercover's phone number that was put on the piece of paper flyer and handed to Donna was 6570.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. what's the next call that we have, call J?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on the same day at approximately 9:31 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who are the parties on this one?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's Charlie Adelson calling Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If we could publish J, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey, what's up?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Good morning.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Good morning.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hi. (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I found a tree. what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Huh? You did?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I -- I found a tree, a little bonsai tree.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I want one.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Do you want to come by the --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like legit, a real one though?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I've got to prune --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's good luck.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- and work on it. I'm going to go up to my office --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) office or whatever (inaudible) office. I have -- I have a -- I have to pay rent.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Uh-oh.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, so I'm picking up a corner.
CHARLIE ADELSON: A corner?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You should get the whole block.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. I'm going to get a corner of the office (inaudible). Hold on. Give me one second. (Inaudible). So --
CHARLIE ADELSON: So, I was going to see if you wanted to come by and I could give it to you.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Well, what time though?
CHARLIE ADELSON: At 2:00.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Because I have -- what -- what -- what time are you there?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'll be at my office from 11 to probably -- by 3:00 I got to start heading up to Westin.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, shoot. That's not going to be possible, because I'm here. I have a lot (inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: My office or Westin?
CHARLIE ADELSON: My office or Westin?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm saying, yeah, it's going to be impossible, because I have to take the kids today.
CHARLIE ADELSON: What time you pick the kids up?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like around -- before six.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Before six.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Do you know what --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I don't have to be there until six, but I usually (inaudible) like 5:00, 5:30 or 5:35.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So there's no way to come up to see me before 6:00 today?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, because I'm here. I have
(inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Oh, you're at work?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, of course, every day. That's what I do with my life. Unfortunately, money doesn't fall from trees.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Oh, I thought it did.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, I wish. But, yeah. Anyways, I don't think it's the idea regardless.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You talking to me or someone else?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Huh? Yeah, I'm talking to you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I really don't. (Inaudible). I don't think it is. You still haven't heard from these people, right?
CHARLIE ADELSON: What's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You still haven't heard from these people?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Well, they came by on Monday.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, you haven't heard from them
(inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: No, I'll put another call into them.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, don't worry about it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: No, no, no.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: They're not even --
CHARLIE ADELSON: No, no, no --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- responding to you. It's weird.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, really fucking weird. The other choice is, I would say the (inaudible) anyway. I mean, it’s got the pool, it's got the food, it's got music, it's livelier anyway.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So call them up, find out what it is, and I got you.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, it's not that.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Got it. That's fine. I totally forgot about -- not forgot. I did call them yesterday. I'll put another call today just to tell them that I'm touching base before I --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, but I was just telling you before, I don't think that's like a good idea regardless, it would be a good investment.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Oh, I see what you're saying.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Because I'm not looking into some properties, and then I was like, I was asking how -- I was asking him, I was like, oh, do you think that would be a good investment? And he's like, no, that's like really stupid. You should really use your head. And I'm like, okay, thanks for the advice.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. I got what you're saying.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's -- but he is going to look into a couple of things, a couple of properties regarding that, and find out what's going on. And then I guess we'll go -- I'll go from there. Because, you know, you can't just jump into like stuff you don't even know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You can't jump into a property you don't even know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly. Like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Is it --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- is he going to like it, you know, how is the security going to be, and, you know, is it going to be first, last, and security, or there's a lot going into it, so I'm trying to do the research for that.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Find out, because usually when these properties come up, I mean, they announce it to everybody.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Can't just have it --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But then I don't think that's the case, like I feel like they -- like it was posted incorrectly, and it's just like, you know, some people bite, some people don't.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So, it's like, you know, you throw out a fish in there and you see who bite. They're fishing.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You throw the chum out, you know, they're all going to come out.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. You throw the chum and a bunch of fish come and they run and jump on it. I mean, I kind of think that --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, but for the pricing, it's like it was absurd. So, it's -- you know, it's unaffordable.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Way, way too high of a pricing, right?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, of course. That's crazy. Who pays that much?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I mean, if they really wanted to get something, like they would -- they would afford it. They would be able to afford it, you know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hang on one second. Danny's got to ask me a question. Danny, go ahead. Sorry about this, dude. It's an important call. What's up? Did I shortchange you? Right, and I gave you 150 on top of it. I wrote the check. Yeah, no, I left the check up here. Hold on one sec. Muchas gracias, Danny. Hi. (Inaudible). Which is better? 109 versus 89? But it's the same shit. You're going to replace it in a few years anyway, right? Get the one for 89. (Inaudible). Yeah, I think I need five for the house. Five of those. Yeah. No. (Inaudible). All right. All right. You want me to give you a check today? (Inaudible). Okay. Let me know when you do it and I'll give you a check. You have to pressure clean first to get this dirt off? And then -- you just paint over the top of it? (Inaudible). Okay. (Inaudible). Okay. Okay. Hang on. Okay. 947 -- oh, yeah, plus tax. Yeah, no problem.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I have to get a (inaudible) later.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Perfect. Thank you, Danny. Okay. Hey.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. But, yeah, you know, just -- it was just crazy that these -- it's so nice that you're in real estate now.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: It's just so crazy --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like it's giving me a lot more knowledge about everything, so --
CHARLIE ADELSON: No, it's -- real estate's a great, great profession. I mean, honestly it's one of those things, the sky's the limit. You get in with the right people and start getting the right stuff, and you can do extremely well.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, I'm learning as I go. I mean, I'm thinking -- like I go home and I do -- you know, my research and stuff about things, and then like I try to ask advice too, you know, like coming from somebody else's point of view. Like, okay, so like if somebody was to offer this amount of money, like, you know, I start looking at the listings, I start looking at like possible scenarios or locations somebody could be at, and then, you know, hopefully I have a lead.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Which -- was someone shocked that that listing came up?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Of course, especially for that amount.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Well, it's that amount and that location.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And it's like -- it's -- it's -- it's -- it's not -- it’s not an amount that like -- like somebody would just put out, like, you know? Like these are worth, like million-dollar houses that we have over here.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like it would have been more. So --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I just don't want any false like, you know, leads, so it will waste my time.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But -- but you don't think alarm bells went off everywhere?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Not that I know of, because it's like, if it was -- if the person was very interested about it and knew like a lot about the property --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- it would have been a totally different story. It would have been a done deal and like things would have been fine then, you know. It would have been over with. But --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- it seems to be -- it's one or two scenarios, which, like I said, I'm trying to figure out right now. Since I'm still new, you know, I'm still trying to figure out how to --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Because the thing is, that property came with a full listing, like it came with the --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, with all the information --
CHARLIE ADELSON: With all the information.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You get all of that stuff, you know, you get all the information and the demographics of everything.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But then again, you can have a listing everywhere, everything is possible.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, I mean, you can -- it's crazy. It's like, I mean, it came with everything but pictures.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Well, that's (inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You can't have pictures for everything.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. No, they always post pictures.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But anyway --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So let me find out first regarding the property and then we'll go from there.
CHARLIE ADELSON: To be very honest with you, I'm not very interested in buying that property. I think you buy a property like that, it becomes -- this is the thing. You buy a property like that, like that duplex that you're talking about --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- it just becomes a headache for life. Because --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, but then it's like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But you don't want to get stuck either in a situation where it's like, it's a false advertisement.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Oh, yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And then --
CHARLIE ADELSON: It could be -- listen, it could be one of two things, and this is what happens when stuff doesn't hit the MLS first. Okay? And it's called like a pocket listing, meaning that someone's able to list the real estate beforehand.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But what ends up happening is, is that, okay, say you get that property and it's a great deal and everything. It becomes a -- you get the wrong people in there, it becomes a problem for life. I've had this with other properties.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay? It becomes lots of excuses, and then they move in, and then the next thing you know, let's see even if --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's a big headache.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, they --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) both times somebody's going to keep increasing the amount.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Exactly. And then what happens is, they tell you, I want to pay this for the rental property, or I want to pay that for the rental property, and you're like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, but (inaudible) that's not the case. That's the problem. If that's not the case for the client, then do you know if -- that's what I'm saying, there's always false leads. We need to get people that like, oh, they'll call and then, oh, yeah, well, okay, I don't really need it. And it's like you've done all this leg work for nothing.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Well, I think it's one -- it's without a question. It's one of two things: It's either a false lead, someone just wasting your fucking time, or you get the wrong tenant in there with the rental property, and it goes ahead and it becomes -- you know, let's say even they move out. Let's say they take a little vacation.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Next thing you know -- so, you don't know because you're not at the property all the time.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Of course.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And their little cousin, while they're on vacation, is like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Moves in and --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Moves in, and is like, hey, guess who I am, da, da, da, da, da. And the next thing you know, his friend shows up and says, hey, guess who I am, I need this, and they're constantly breaking things and they're constantly knock-- you know, knocking at your door to fix things, and it becomes -- they will never --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: A burden.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- ever -- they will -- it will be like a leach that never leaves you.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Well, hopefully that's not -- that's not the case. That's why I need to get everything clarified first. That's why I do all the background checks and everything, make sure like a person really does want it before I even go forth of, you know, trying to look at the property for them, or else I'm just -- I'm going around and around for nothing.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I mean, that's honestly -- that's why these things also are done with contracts, and you've got to have a contract attorney look over them, and then you buy them, and then after the property's bought, the property's bought. You know, there is no like, oh, by the way, I know I -- I know I agreed to pay you X, but I'm going to come to the closing and I'll give you half. No. If you say you're going to do something, you fucking do it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You know, if you say you're going to pay rent, you pay rent. If you say, I'm going to buy this building for $50,000 or whatever, or a million dollars -- let's say you're going to buy a building for ten million dollars. Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: If you're buying a building for ten million, you don't show up at closing and go, hey, I decided I'm going to give you one million.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And that's it. Like, it's just -- you know, you're just getting --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I mean, I did make a couple of phones calls like last night to find out if -- if this was a good deal, and I'll find out more, because like I said, I don't want anybody to get taken advantage, and especially (inaudible) so --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Well, you've got to -- you've got to look at the pocket listings. It's good that you're in real estate. Just -- just be careful, because I'm telling you, if you buy the wrong rental property, like the one that I had in Miramar --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- these people are such a fucking pain in the ass. They got nothing but excuses. They fuck you over every chance they get. By the way, did I tell you, I've had to kick everybody out of --
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. That one goes on for a few more minutes, but I wanted to ask you a couple of questions about the statement that Ms. Magbanua made about making a couple phone calls last night to find out if this was a good lead. Had anyone called the undercover number at that time?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, they had not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And regarding the property in Miramar and how people are pains in the ass in Miramar, where is the FBI office located in south Florida?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's in Miramar.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what region does that office cover?
PATRICK SANFORD: It covers the entire south Florida.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I wanted to skip ahead a little bit to April 25th, if we could. was there an additional effort to try to tickle the wire or do some law enforcement intervention that could generate more chatter on the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: There was a -- it was a letter that we sent to the Adelson residence.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm showing you what I have marked as State's 84. Do you recognize 84?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How do you recognize it?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's the letter that we sent, we had sent to their residence through the mail.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And this was the next bump or tickling of the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time I'd ask to move into evidence State's 84.
JUDGE WHEELER: Any objection?
MR. DECOSTE: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: Be admitted as State's Exhibit 84.
(State's Exhibit 84 received in evidence.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May I publish?
JUDGE WHEELER: You may.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So were there more calls that were intercepted regarding this attempt?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there were.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So do you know when this letter was sent?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was sent on April the 24th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And when did we first hear acknowledgement on the wire that the thing has been received?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry, I believe -- can I check my notes on that day?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sure.
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry, the letter was sent on April 23rd.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And when do we hear information on the wire to suggest it's been received?
PATRICK SANFORD: On April 25th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Up until this point of the call that we're about to hear, has anybody called the undercover number yet?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Has anyone called to report anything that's happened so far to the police?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. If we could publish call L, please. Okay. I'm sorry, Your Honor, I skipped call K. we're going to be publishing call K next.
JUDGE WHEELER: Al1l right. K.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey, you on your way?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Cool. I'm going to be at The Icon, which is when you come over 395, it's right there in the -- you know which building The Icon is, right?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's all the way in South Beach, right? Like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, it's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Fucking far.
CHARLIE ADELSON: When you come over --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like it's a lot of driving down there. You can't go a little bit more up north, just a little north anywhere?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I will. I'm just -- I will. I'm just -- I'm standing outside. I was talking to my parents about everything.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I was just talking to my parents about my day. I'm standing -- I'm standing out --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible)?
CHARLIE ADELSON: No, I was talking to my parents about my day.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So that --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) because it's like I had to just like jet out of my homegirl's house, like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know. we're --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- like (inaudible) worried about me every single two seconds.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Of course. But I'd rather -- where are you now?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm on Biscayne.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Just -- just do me this one favor, just come down here.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Is everything okay?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. I just want you to come down here so I can see you. TI mean, you're already in the car. It's on the -- The Icon is on the corner of Fifth and Alton. It's that -- it's that big building where you -- as soon as you're on Alton and you cross over Fifth, on your right-hand side.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. We can't meet anywhere else besides that?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I can get in my car and start trying to find you, but then we've got to drive and park and -- I'd rather you just come over here.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know, but that is like the heart of South Beach, like it's kind of stupid for me to go all the way down there.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You're -- okay. I'1l1 get in my car in five -- in five minutes, I'll -- start heading this way and I'll be in my car and then I'll -- and then I'll meet you somewhere in like 15 minutes. I still need to talk to my parents for another five minutes and then I'm going to leave them and then I'm going to come find -- come to wherever you are. Still keep heading south.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, I'm heading -- I'm heading down south. I'm on Biscayne heading down south.
CHARLIE ADELSON: What's your cross street?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm like 82nd right now.
CHARLIE ADELSON: On 82nd?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. I -- just give me a call when you get in the car.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. I'll give you a call and see where you are and I'll start heading up north.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You can get it when I call you through whatsApp?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I'll put my ringer -- I don't know if -- let me see if my phone was on vibrate.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible). Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right.
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So from this call it appears there's a meeting planned. was there a meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: where was the meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was -- it was actually at a restaurant back behind -- it started out with Charlie meeting at -- his parents at The Icon.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Tell us about that. was that surveilled at all?
PATRICK SANFORD: That initial meeting?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At The Icon.
PATRICK SANFORD: At The Icon?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That's the -- is that the building where his parents lived, Donna and Harvey?
PATRICK SANFORD: That is. That's where they -- yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it was not surveilled at that point.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And can you kind of explain to us what the issues are with surveilling some of these meetings, if they don't give you much notice?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, if we don't get much notice, Miami is a big place. Like she said on the phone, it's a long way from where she lives to where -- to get down to South Beach, and the traffic and everything sometimes can take like an hour for us to be able to get to a location that we don't know they're at until they're almost there is very difficult for us. Plus, in The Icon, they had security and it was a secure building, so it was hard to get inside.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So no recordings from The Icon?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what about this meeting between the Defendant and Charlie Adelson that they're working on in the call we just heard, any surveillance there?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And she mentions calling him on the whatsApp. Do you have any records to tell the jury whether or not there were further calls on the whatsApp or not?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, we do not -- were not able to obtain the whatsApp calls.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And so I want to go to the next day, which is going to take us to April 26th, 2016. what is call M?
PATRICK SANFORD: L or M?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Oh, did I -- I don't why I want to skip -- okay. So let's go to L. L occurs after the meeting between the Defendant and Charlie, is that correct, or is it before? I thought we just heard L.
PATRICK SANFORD: This is before.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did we hear L? That was K. Okay. So we do have one more call that occurs prior to that meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. This is where she's trying to find where he is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Where he is. Okay. I'm sorry. Let's go ahead and hear L. Actually, let's skip L. L, they're trying to meet up?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. They do meet up; we don't surveil it?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct. We couldn't get them.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So then we can go to the next day, which is going to be call M. what are we hearing in call M?
PATRICK SANFORD: we're hearing a call from Sigfredo to -- Sigfredo Garcia to Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And this is going to be April 26th?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At what time?
PATRICK SANFORD: This is the following day, April 26th at 9:48 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's publish call M, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: what's going on?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) but did you (inaudible) give Ethan extra money or something for his field trip?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: what? Of course. Don't worry about them. They're fine. He got money. He got everything he needs for his field trip.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: A111 right.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I just need to talk to you, though. Okay?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (Inaudible) what you need to talk to me about? So --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (Inaudible). I mean, you know, (inaudible) asking about you, so I want to set upa conference call or something.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: The what?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: But, your son -- your son --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: well, yeah, I --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- (inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I have to call.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah, you need to talk to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right. well --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Don't call me back. If anything, I'1l1 drop them off to your mom or something like that.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: What you talking about?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (Inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. Don't -- don't -- don't involve my mom in this kind of thing.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: You're calling my mom. You called my mom Cinaudible). My mom Cinaudible). When you call her, she's --
(Audio concluded. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Did that call get minimized at that point?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall it being minimized then.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. How close in time is -- I'm sorry, we've still got some headphones on. How close in time is the call that we just heard to the meeting between the Defendant and Charlie Adelson that occurred, I guess it was -- was it the day before?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was the day before, I believe.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It was the day before?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right. And we heard a previous call between the Defendant and Sigfredo Garcia where they seemed to be arguing. You know which call I'm referencing?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And did they -- is there any evidence from your investigation that they had actually split ways between the time of that argument and where we are now, which is «April 26th?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. I believe Ms. Magbanua was not staying at the residence with Mr. Garcia at that point.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And are you able, during a wire intercept, to receive or intercept the text messaging that's sent in real time?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we are.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was there a text message which we have labeled as N as our next item on the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who is that message to and from?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's from Katherine Magbanua to Sigfredo Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At what time of day?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was at 9:52 a.m. on the 26th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So is that shortly after the call we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. If we could display text N, please.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So this is Katherine Magbanua to Sigfredo Garcia; is that right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe this is the next text. This is O.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So go back to N real quick and do the enlarging if you will. Just worried people can't read it.
All right. So this is Defendant to Garcia, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. "Need to talk to you about something else,” and then is there a response?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what time does the response occur?
PATRICK SANFORD: Approximately six minutes later, five, six minutes later.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's go to text O. And that's the content there underneath where it says, text?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And this is Garcia's response to Magbanua?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And then the next item we have is call P. who are the parties in that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: This is from Katherine Magbanua to Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How close in time, like where are we in time now?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's the same day as those texts. This is the day after the meeting at The Icon and Montes. It's 4:33 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I don't think you said Montes before. That's where the Defendant and Charlie met when we heard that call, where he was going to get in the car and go to wherever she was?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So this call that we're about to hear is what time of day?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's at 4:33 p.m. in the afternoon.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May we publish call P, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hello?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey, what's going on?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Well, you know, I don't know what the fuck, like for some reason I know you were like telling me something about for the client, but I -- like I got it mixed up with the number.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And like -- and I'm calling both numbers, but nobody's picking up, so I need to figure out because -- or else I could set up, you know, with the realtor to show the property.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Oh, fuck. They sound like a really good client, if they're going to rent the place. I actually have --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: I actually have the number at home.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. But kind of like, I need it like stat.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, I can -- fuck, I wish I would have wrote it down.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like I'm supposed Cinaudible), but the thing is, is like I can -- I tried to, you know, remember it, and like I just couldn't like I've been calling so many people today, so it's like -- it's been --
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'm going to be home in probably two hours and I can get you the number then. Hopefully they haven't like looked at other properties yet.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, I -- well --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Theres no way at all you can get the number to me?
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, I mean, yeah --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Before I get out of work?
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, let me do this: Let me -- let me see if I can get the number. I've got the number at home in my desk.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But let me see if the number may be some other place. Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. I'11l call you right back.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: A111 right.
(Audio concluded. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. In this call, Magbanua's indicating that she's calling both numbers. Has anyone called the undercover number yet?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not at this point.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. If we could go to call Q, please.
JUDGE WHEELER: Ms. Cappleman, this will be the last one before a break. Okay?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes. All right. Call Q.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
DONNA ADELSON: Hey, Charlie.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey. Can you hear me?
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, I can hear you fine.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Do you remember the number that was written on that paper the other day? Because I have it at home.
DONNA ADELSON: I don't.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay.
DONNA ADELSON: I don't.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Because someone just called me asking for it, because they thought they remembered it, but evidently they -- they remembered it wrong.
So, I'm going to have to give it --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. I got the paper at my house, so don't --
DONNA ADELSON: I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Don't worry about it, but --
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You didn't write the number anywhere?
DONNA ADELSON: No, I gave you the paper, and that was the end of it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know, but I thought you maybe --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- wrote the number down.
DONNA ADELSON: I didn't. I didn't.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Because they're calling me now for the number and I have the paperwork at my house.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. I'll give it to them in a few hours.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay, sweetheart.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, bye.
DONNA ADELSON: Love you. Bye.
(Audio concluded.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, Judge.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. we'll take our morning break now, and so we'll give you about 15 minutes and the deputy will take you back to the jury room.
(Jury exits courtroom.)
MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, can we come sidebar on a matter?
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Please be seated. Jury is out of the courtroom. The door is closed. Is it in regards to a cameraman?
MR. DECOSTE: If we can go sidebar and discuss it, please.
(Sidebar conference as follows:)
MR. DECOSTE: I just -- I wanted to put it on the record, and we don't bring any more attention to it so that people won't go back and look at it. That's why I didn't want to put it on the record. And I'm sure Your Honor knows --
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. Somebody already told me.
MR. DECOSTE: And I spoke to the -- that's why I jumped over right away.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right.
MR. DECOSTE: And he -- he -- his response was, oh, my god, you know, and it seemed genuine that he made a mistake.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. No, I hope so. He needs to understand if there's one more mistake, then we're going to limit the camera access. Either he's going to be out of here, or it's just going to be on the witness and that's it. He's not moving around that camera. Okay? So, make that a clear understanding. Again, you're right, I don't want to bring attention to it so everybody else looks at it, but he needs to have that clear understanding. Okay?
MR. DECOSTE: Does the Court and the government think that the jury needs some sort of instruction now, because there's a chance that people see it and start reaching out to them?
JUDGE WHEELER: I mean, how long was it -- do we know how long it was on them for?
MR. DECOSTE: we don't.
JUDGE WHEELER: I say let's just leave it alone unless we get an issue. The jurors have been pretty communicative with the bailiffs, not about the case itself, but about their needs or concerns, so let's wait until we see if we hear something from them, if they have a concern about that.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay. It's on the record now, so, we're good.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Thank you.
(Sidebar conference concluded.)
JUDGE WHEELER: we'll be in recess.
(Court in recess.)
JUDGE WHEELER: Please be seated. Okay. We're ready for the jury. Bring the jury in, please.
(Jury in courtroom.)
JUDGE WHEELER: Please be seated. Ready to proceed, Ms. Cappleman?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I'm going to take you back to April 26th, and we were having some number confusion. P, Q, Rand S, all in pretty close proximity to each other timewise, all within the same hour?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So, if we could go ahead and publish call R then.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey. Okay. I just called, they don't have the number either. It's at home, and I'm not going to be able to give it to you until I get home.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) to like set up like the freaking -- try to get the agent for showing that's why I don't have --
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know. That's what I was like, take it, write the number down, and they're --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know, but it's like, I'm so good at like memorizing shit, you know, like I do this all day. Like I have like a thousand numbers on my phone now, and then now when somebody calls me back, I don't know who it is, because I'm not going to save every person's number.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You Know, I don't have a landline in my job. I have to use my cellphone.
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's why you got to put it in your contact list so you don't lose your contacts.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, I can't do that. It's going to be random people who's calling my phone. You're like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Some clients that don't even want to like -- one day they want to see a property. Another day, oh, no, it's okay, because they're working with somebody else.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. I'm in Miami Lakes right now, so I'm not going to -- let me see what time I get out of here. Hang on one second.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Damn, and you can't even remember?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey, come on. At my age, I'm lucky to remember what I had for breakfast. The only reason I remember is because I eat the same thing every day. Hang on one second. Hey, do you know what time my last patient is? (Inaudible). I'm done? why didn't someone tell me? wait, that guy that came from the other office? So I'm all done? Okay. Beautiful. Thank you. I'm going to get out of here before traffic hits. All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I can -- I can get the number in 30 minutes.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Thank you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Bye.
(Audio concluded. )
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. We can go straight to our next call, call S, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Hey.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: How you doing?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (Inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hey. I think I remember the -- remember one of the listings that I had to tell you, one of the properties?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Well, what was -- I don't know, just in case that you call, you know, because I have to -- I have to set it up.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah, because I tried to meet (inaudible). Each time --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. It's -- I believe it's 305.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: 6570.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: 6570?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh Caffirmative response). Because I always -- like -- like -- I had like two numbers --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I know, you got that dyslexia. I get it. I get it. So the listing for the place is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's 305-712-6570.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: 5570?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. NO, no, no. See, you're confusing me. It's at 305 --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- 712 --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- 6570.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I believe that was one of the ones that I tried. well, I'll --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. I'll reach out to you in a little bit.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right. All right. Ethan just wanted me to tell you hi.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right. Tell him hi.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: A111 right.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Can you call me back later?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah, absolutely.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Bye.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Bye.
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And in this call, is Katherine Magbanua accurately relaying the undercover number to Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And again, up to this point, has anyone called the undercover number?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not at this time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Now, we go to 4/27, 4/27 call T. what is call T?
PATRICK SANFORD: This is the following day where Charlie is -- Charlie Adelson is calling his mother, Donna Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And that's --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: We can go ahead and start publishing that call, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
DONNA ADELSON: The answer's no. Dad said he doesn't want to.
CHARLIE ADELSON: He doesn't want to?
DONNA ADELSON: Nope.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right.
DONNA ADELSON: All right? But thank you for the offer. That was very sweet.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Is it because he's tied up and he just doesn't feel like going?
DONNA ADELSON: I think he -- I think he just doesn't feel like going.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Really?
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: It's -- is he still upset about everything or --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, he's not having the best day.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Did something else happen?
DONNA ADELSON: No. No. So, you know, just understand, and it may be another -- may be another time. Just not -- not right now.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. (Inaudible).
DONNA ADELSON: Okay? Thank you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: By the way --
DONNA ADELSON: Thank you, sweetheart.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Wait, wait, everything else is -- is being taken care of.
DONNA ADELSON: Great.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Just so you know, they -- they actually called the person, and --
DONNA ADELSON: Oh, my goodness.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- nobody -- nobody picked up.
DONNA ADELSON: Really?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. Yeah.
DONNA ADELSON: Might have these throwaway phones maybe. Who knows?
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, that doesn't matter. I mean, it's clearly nothing beside voice mail, but no one -- no one picked up. They tried a couple times. I wouldn't worry at -- let me tell you something, I would not worry at all. I would worry about other things.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And that's -- you got to find something new to worry about.
DONNA ADELSON: No, I don't want to -- believe me, I (inaudible) worry about --
CHARLIE ADELSON: No, no.
DONNA ADELSON: -- anything.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You got --
DONNA ADELSON: No, no, I do not have to --
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible).
DONNA ADELSON: -- worry. Don't make that statement to me.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You have to find something new to worry about.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, thank you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I don't know what you're going to do with your free time.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, all my free time.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You never -- let me just tell you something, you never let yourself have free time. You --
DONNA ADELSON: No, that's not true.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- always --
DONNA ADELSON: That's not true.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- be like, oh, I got to do this, oh, and then I got to do that, and I'm behind on this.
DONNA ADELSON: That's not true.
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI got laundry -- and I got laundry to do and then I got to go to Publix.
DONNA ADELSON: TI told you, I had to run out this morning, because it's Administrative Professionals Day, which I didn't realize until the last minute, and I had to go run out and buy a cake for Erica. So --
CHARLIE ADELSON: But, listen, it's --
DONNA ADELSON: And then I got a big, big (inaudible) on my eye last night and so I had to run to Cvs this morning and go get drops and eye drop medication and stuff.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I mean, you always -- I mean, I'm telling you something --
DONNA ADELSON: I'm trying. I'm really trying not to, Charlie, just so you know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know.
DONNA ADELSON: I'm really trying not to.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But I'm just saying, like, you know, I mean, you're like, oh, ask me how many times I went down to the hot tub since we've moved in here? Like that's your fault. No one else's.
DONNA ADELSON: I'm not -- I'm not -- I know. I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI mean, I'm just saying like, you know what, you've got to find something else to -- to trust --
DONNA ADELSON: (Inaudible) enjoy every day. we really --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Trust me when IT tell you, mom, it is -- you've done nothing wrong.
DONNA ADELSON: TI Know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And it's because of that, you have nothing, literally nothing to worry about. Someone's fishing and someone wants to try to make some money because they're struggling, but that will never amount -- that will never amount to anything. So someone's just trying to throw something -- you know, throw a fishing line out there -- how you doing -- throw a fishing line out there and see if they can catch something, and that's -- and I understand why they're doing it, and I understand what they're -- what they're trying to do, but that doesn't make it right. But they're -- the funny thing is, they really don't Cinaudible). They're just fishing. That's all that's going on.
DONNA ADELSON: I know. I know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And I wouldn't -- I wouldn't worry about it at all.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So, I've told you that many times. I'm sure you know.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, I got you, Charlie. TI got it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You know, it's not going to change the fact -- hey, how are you? Good. You just going to run this through and then hand it back to me? I need to make sure I get this back though. I didn't want to mix it. So, yeah, I would not -- I mean, I know it's easier for me to say it than for you to do it.
DONNA ADELSON: It is.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But I would not sit around and like, you know --
DONNA ADELSON: TI --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- drive -- drive yourself to the point where you get sick because -- because of that. I mean, it's --
DONNA ADELSON: I know, sweetheart, I do.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I mean, you just -- you know what I mean? Like you say --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- you know, you know, you know --
DONNA ADELSON: I do, no --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- and it's like --
DONNA ADELSON: -- I do.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Listen, the person that came to you was just relaying a message, and then some dumb idiot wants to go ahead and they want to follow it up with a letter, like -- and the truth is, is that the number was called. They didn't even pick up. And then she tried calling a 786, thinking maybe they wrote it down wrong, 786, not 305, and that one went and she left a voice mail. But the other one, no.
CHARLIE ADELSON: SO --
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. There's a few more minutes of that, but I'm going to move on to what occurs after this call. Is there any bump or another tickling of the wire that occurs?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what is that?
PATRICK SANFORD: The uc called the Adelson Institute asking for Donna Adelson. They left a message.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time, I'd ask to publish State's 128.
JUDGE WHEELER: You may.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
AUDIO RECORDING: Good morning. Thank you for calling Dr. Adelson's office. This is Erica speaking. How may I help you?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes, good morning. May I speak to Donna, Mrs. Donna Adelson?
AUDIO RECORDING: May I let her know who's calling?
AUDIO RECORDING: Sammy.
AUDIO RECORDING: Sammy from?
AUDIO RECORDING: I met her last week and I gave her some paperwork.
AUDIO RECORDING: You met her last week and you gave her some paperwork? Regarding?
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, she knows what it's about. It's important paperwork.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, okay. And your name was Sammy?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you have another phone number where you can be reached?
AUDIO RECORDING: My number is 305 --
AUDIO RECORDING: Uh-huh Caffirmative response).
AUDIO RECORDING: -- 712 --
AUDIO RECORDING: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
AUDIO RECORDING: -- 6570.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. So she's not available right now, but I can have her maybe give you a call back.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Just tell her it's very important. I need to find out immediately what she thinks about the paperwork.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I certainly will.
AUDIO RECORDING: I met her last week. Yes, thank you so much.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Have a good day.
AUDIO RECORDING: All righty. You too.
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. After the bump, is there a call to -- from Charlie to Donna?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what date are we on now?
PATRICK SANFORD: This is on April the 28th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what time of day?
PATRICK SANFORD: Approximately 9:42 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. If we could publish call U, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
DONNA ADELSON: Good morning, Charlie.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey, how are you?
DONNA ADELSON: Hey. Are you in an office or home or Cinaudible)?
CHARLIE ADELSON: No, no, no, I'm driving to an office now. what's up?
DONNA ADELSON: well, Erica called me this morning, and -- because dad is on the road to the office. So, Erica called me and she said -- she said, I wouldn't normally bother you with this, she says, I don't know if it's a sales call or what, but somebody called this morning and he said his name was Sammy and he gave you some very important papers last week and he hasn't heard from you, and he wants you to call him back, and here's the number. So --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay.
DONNA ADELSON: So I, you Know, want you to verify the number was the same -- is the correct number that I had, you know, told you about. So, obviously I'm not going to call the number. Erica said, you know, if this turns out to be a sales call, just hit star 67 before you call the number and then they won't know the number you're calling from. TI said, oh, okay, I'll write that down. what's your suggestion?
CHARLIE ADELSON: The odd thing is this, is that that's the same number you gave me, right?
DONNA ADELSON: I don't know, because I gave you the number. I never kept it. You kept it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Tell me what the number was.
DONNA ADELSON: 305 --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right.
DONNA ADELSON: 712-6570.
CHARLIE ADELSON: 6570.
DONNA ADELSON: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. No, it's -- it's someone -- the odd thing is, is that it's 712-6570. Yeah, that's the same number and it was called and no one picked up.
DONNA ADELSON: Maybe they'll pick up now.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. So, someone called today?
DONNA ADELSON: They called the office and Erica called me. She says, I hope I'm not bothering you. It's probably a sales call.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, and listen, that's -- let me tell you something. I'm looking into it right now.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah, I figured you were, but it's something to verify the number.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know. And that's -- the odd thing is, you think the number would be picked up. I mean --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah. well, they'll pick it up.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So, let me do this --
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- let me -- let me call somebody.
DONNA ADELSON: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And -- but I wouldn't -- Mom, trust me when I tell you, I wouldn't worry at all.
DONNA ADELSON: Okay. Okay. I just wanted to tell you --
CHARLIE ADELSON: And I'll tell you why, especially -- especially because -- what do you call it -- especially because you know who it is. So, let me call someone and take care it now. Okay?
DONNA ADELSON: Thank you, Charlie.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right.
DONNA ADELSON: Love you.
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what does Charlie Adelson do after learning of this information that there has been another tickling of the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: He tries to call Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was he successful in reaching the Defendant?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not at first.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did he leave a voice mail?
PATRICK SANFORD: He did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is that captured in our, what we're calling call v?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Could we publish call v, please?
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
AUDIO RECORDING: You have reached the voice mailbox of 786-564-1312.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey, it's me. It's important. Call me. Bye.
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And are there any more attempts by Charlie Adelson to reach the Defendant before we actually get another call?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, I believe there was about four different attempts by Mr. Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And then we get a call back to Charlie from the Defendant?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is that call w?
PATRICK SANFORD: It is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Tell us the date and time of this call, please.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/28 at 10:43 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Publish call w, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: What happened?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Somebody called my dad's office, okay, looking for him.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Saying that they dropped off some paperwork to them.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: And there was a phone number on there, and after the person left the message with Erica, and Erica called my mom up, because she was like, you know, normally I wouldn't call you up, but I got this strange phone call. My mom's like, yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh Caffirmative response). what's the phone number that they're calling from though?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I can ask Erica, but Erica -- Erica said a guy by the name of Sammy called the office this morning saying that, I left some paperwork with Dr. Adelson last week and I left a number on there and he needs to call me at that number.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, somebody's like fucking pulling your bones and shit.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, this is the third -- this is the third.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Call the number. Call the number. Because I'm about to call on my fucking phone.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I fucking -- I mean, it's someone who wants to be called back. Let's put it that way. Do you still have the number?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, well obviously that number, nobody's picking up.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's not a working number. It's like a Gmail number.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Nobody's pulling a leg. I'm just asking you to find out who the fuck it is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: You know?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- get that number that's off of your -- off of the thing, off of the number -- off of the fricking caller ID.
CHARLIE ADELSON: At the office?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yes, obviously, because this is like a fucking bullshit game.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, they're not -- they're not coming out on foot. They're not writing letters and they're not calling the office because they have nothing better to do.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Well, I don't know what to tell you, because I called that number myself.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Well, let's call that number again and find out what the fuck's going on.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And nobody picks up. And even tried another number and left a message.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. well, I would --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm trying to get whoever's threatening your family and helping you guys out, and trying to help you guys out, but it's like if they don't pick up, like what the fuck?
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI understand.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's like it's a fucking joke.
CHARLIE ADELSON: JI understand, but they fucking called this morning and they're waiting for the phone call. That's what I'm telling you. And so this is three times --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get the number or whatever that is that's calling you or your family --
CHARLIE ADELSON: The 305 --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- or whatever it is --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- 712-6570. Do you have the number?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly. That number is obviously -- it's like a nonworking number.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Can you -- can you find out?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I tried. Okay? And then it's like, what -- I don't fucking understand. It's either somebody's pulling your bones, somebody is just harassing you, or somebody's trying to get something out of you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Find out who the fuck it is, because the other phone call is going to be the FBI.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'm telling you. well, I'm telling you, and then when they do the catch the person, they're going to be asking him lots of questions about who Katie is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: We already spoke about this. It's like not even like a fucking joke anymore because --
CHARLIE ADELSON: It's not a fucking joke.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- seriously it's like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Katie, it's not --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- somebody's fucking harassing you guys and somebody's harassing and using my name and it's like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. So you want me to have them —
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- (inaudible) like that?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Look, Katie, think it through, find out who the fuck it is. That's all I'm asking you.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No Cinaudible) on my fucking cellphone because this fucking bullshit and fucking somebody's trying to fucking pinpoint some bullshit. Like it's getting aggravating.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, it is. All I'm saying is, find out who the fuck it is and tell them to stop playing their games. I don't know who you have to talk to, but it needs to be nipped in the bud because --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, I'm going to handle this shit myself, bro, because this is some fucking bullshit. I'm going to handle it my motherfucking self. (Inaudible) fucking number, if they fucking -- if Erica wants to call back, be like, oh, is this the right number? Okay. I have your fucking -- whatever fucking shit taken care of. Okay? Because it's fucking bullshit.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Find out --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's threats, bro. I'm about to go to the fucking FBI. I'm fucking getting irate with this shit already. It's either the FBI fucking -- fucking playing games or fucking whatever it is, because I'm fucking --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- getting pissed.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. well, find out. All I'm saying is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And they fucking gave a wrong phone number.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So you're an idiot. You gave a fucking wrong number. Get the fucking number to fucking call because I'm going to call them.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And fucking send it to me. TI don't even fucking give a shit about all this fucking bullshit, whatever shit anymore.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm pissed the fuck off. Like I'm going to fucking go to the cops right now.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. well, either you go to the cops or we go to the cops --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- to find out --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: we're both going to --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- who the --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- fucking go to the cops because this is fucking bullshit.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, find out who the fuck this is, because this person evidently knows you and knows your family. They know me --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- and they know my family, so --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And you don't -- you don't think that that fucking scares the shit out of me, like somebody fucking saying my name out loud or whatever.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, Katie, someone's messing -- someone's messing with you. They're messing with me. Someone's messing with me. They're messing with you. It's one and the same.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So what I'm saying is, find out who the fuck it is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That number doesn't fucking work. If you can get ahold, you go to different offices, call the motherfucking number. See if that fucking number works. Bottom line. Because I've tried myself and that shit does not work.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Katie, call them, find out who the fuck it is now. Trust me on this. Find out who the fuck it is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get the number -- listen to me and get the number and stop playing all these games, because I --
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI already --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- (inaudible) --
CHARLIE ADELSON: I --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- with your parents to the fucking FBI or whatever fucker's doing this shit and fucking go and fucking report whoever's harassing.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Katie.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Katie, do you have -- do you -- I've got to get back to a patient. Do you have the number I gave you the other day?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I have the fucking number --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay, good.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and I told you --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Call it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You don't listen. I called the number.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know you --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's not a working number.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Good.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get the number that called your fucking office.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Listen to me for once.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I will. You want me to call Erica?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hey, fucking A, bro. I'm going to fucking fuck up whoever the fuck is fucking with me.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'm going to call my mom and have my mom call the office.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get the fucking number --
CHARLIE ADELSON: which Cinaudible)?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Because now your fucking parents -- a number's been calling and that's not a working number. So it's either somebody playing games, somebody's tapping into some shit, and somebody's just trying to fucking aggravate somebody.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Let me -- let me --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And I'm aggravated.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- repeat this to you. Do you want me to have Erica go on the caller ID and look to see what number that was --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- that called?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get the fucking number. Obviously they're calling from somewhere else if it's not the same number that you said. How about you call and find out --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Try -- okay. Do me a favor. Try that number I gave you the other day, and I'm going to call my mom and tell her to call Erica and ask her to look it up on the caller ID. Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get it. All right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But call that --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Whatever --
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So we heard repeatedly on there the Defendant representing to Charlie Adelson that she had called that number, called that number personally, and that it was a nonworking number. Had she called that number?
JUDGE WHEELER: What's your objection?
MR. DECOSTE: No objection.
JUDGE WHEELER: Go ahead.
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she had not called that number.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was it, in fact, a working number?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: There was a discussion on there of going to the cops, I'm going to the cops. No, I'm going to the cops. Did anybody go to the cops?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Is there another call between these two within the hour?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is that call xX?
PATRICK SANFORD: It is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish call xX, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'm going to star six seven and see if it -- and see what it is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Do that.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. You never -- you never heard anything, from any nonsense, have you?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Say what?
CHARLIE ADELSON: You haven't heard anything from any of this nonsense?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. Obviously we're on the same page.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Let me -- let me do that, see where we are.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Bye.
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. At this point, do we have somebody call the undercover number?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: who calls it?
PATRICK SANFORD: Charlie Adelson calls the undercover number.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And is that 4/28 at 11:33 a.m.?
PATRICK SANFORD: That sounds right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's publish State's Exhibit 134 at this time, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: (Inaudible). Hello?
CHARLIE ADELSON: who is this?
AUDIO RECORDING: who is this?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Someone's been calling my family. I'm trying to figure out who this is.
AUDIO RECORDING: In reference to what, man?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Someone by the name of Sammy called.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, that's me, man.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. What's -- what's going on?
AUDIO RECORDING: well, what's going on is, my brother, Tato. Okay. My brother, Tato, has not been taken care of. His family is not being taken care of. I talked to Cinaudible). why are you calling me? who are you? I gave my number to a lady.
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI don't know Tato.
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't know Tato?
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm sure you know Katie and Tuto. They've been taken care of since the family problem's been taken care of up north.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I don't know Cinaudible) --
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't?
AUDIO RECORDING: Nothing's going away, my friend, because let me tell you something, I was in Broward with Tato and he told me the whole story. He told me nobody was taking care of him, nobody was taking care of his family. The family was taking care of Katie and Tuto, and nothing's been taken care of with Tato. So, we know. we know what's going on. Tato needs to be taken care of. Do the right thing. The lady already has the paperwork. She knows what I'm talking about. we know Katie. We know Tuto. we know they've been taken care of.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Let me -- let me look into things.
AUDIO RECORDING: No more fucking around, man. No more fucking around. This ain't going away. You -- Tato -- you guys need to do the right thing for Tato. That's my brother, man, that's my brother, and he needs to be taken care of, his family needs to be taken care of just like Katie and Tuto been taken care of.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I -- I've never met -- met these people, but let me call you back. Okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: That's bullshit, man. You know exactly what I'm talking about. You know this lady. I don't know your relationship to the lady, but you know what the fuck is going on.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. Let me call you back.
AUDIO RECORDING: Take care -- take care of Tato just like you take care of Katie and Tuto, man.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Let me call you back.
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: who is the first person that Charlie Adelson calls after making this contact with the undercover agent?
PATRICK SANFORD: He talks to Katie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does he make some unanswered calls first to Katie before he actually talks to her?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, that's what it is. He attempts to call -- he attempts to call Katie and then she calls him back.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Does he attempt --
JUDGE WHEELER: Hold on a second.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, Your Honor. If the witness is looking down at a list right now, if we could get a copy of whatever he's looking at.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. You're refreshing your recollection?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, sir.
JUDGE WHEELER: And what do you have there?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's the call list -- call list that we wrote down with the letters on it.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. And has that been provided to the Defense? Is it the exhibit list or it's the call list that -- let's make sure what it is and let's make sure that --
MR. DECOSTE: I just want to have on the record when he's refreshing himself.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. So you're okay, just on the record, refreshing recollection, or do you want a copy of this?
MR. DECOSTE: Oh, yeah, we want a copy of this.
JUDGE WHEELER: Has that been provided previously?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
MR. DECOSTE: It has not, Your Honor, not that list. That also has handwritten notes on it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Oh, the handwritten notes have not been provided, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: Let's just make it clear when he's refreshing his recollection so that it's clear on the record. Okay?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So, you were going to refresh your recollection with your notes as to whether there were multiple unanswered calls, after Charlie calls the undercover, to Katherine Magbanua, the Defendant in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And do we know how many?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall how many.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: More than one?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe, yes, there was more than one.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And eventually she calls him back?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, she does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And can you give us -- can you check your notes and give us the date and time of when she calls him back?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I'll check my notes. And she calls him back at 12:41 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So about an hour, a little better than an hour after the call we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish call Y, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
CHARLIE ADELSON: Give me two minutes. Hang on a second. I called the number. It rang like seven or eight times, and then somebody picked up, and sounded like -- he goes, you know -- you know, who is this? And -- and I said, I'm returning a call. And he's like, what is this in reference to? So, the guy that called my office this morning, and -- Simon. So I said, someone by the name of Simon left a call this morning. And I go what's -- I go, what's this about? He's like, who are you? I go, that's not important. what do you need? You there?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So I said -- I said, it's not important who I am. I say, what can I do to help you out? what do you need?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: And he said, listen, man, he's like, Tuco (sic) or whatever the fuck his name is, he's like, someone did a really big favor for you and was there for you and we know, and, listen, I'm Tuco's brother and I was with him in Broward. So I don't know if this guy's from Broward or whatever. He's like, I was with him down in Broward and he hasn't been taken care of, his family hasn't been taken care of, and he's like, it's fucking bullshit. He's like -- and as he's -- I'm letting him talk. As he's talking, I'm hearing a little bit of a New York -- New York accent.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh Caffirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: You know, as he's trying to -- you know, when he picked up the phone, he didn't sound like a tough guy when he picked up the phone, but it was like as he was talking to me, like the tough guy routine sounded like it was coming out. So he's like, listen, he's like, I was with -- I know your -- I know you guys took care of and you're taking care of Katie and Tuto and you're taking care of their family, now he needs to be taken care of, and I was with him in Broward, and he's done a big favor for you. And I go, sir, I go, I don't know. He goes, I know you've been giving money to Katie and Tuto and taking care of their family. I go, no money has been given. I said, I don't even know who these people are, and I don't -- I don't know what you're talking about. And he's like, who are you? I'm like, listen, it's not important. I said, I don't know what you're talking about. No one's paying anybody. And he's like, well, listen, man, this shit's not fucking going away. You better fucking do the right -- he was like, it's not going away --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, so he started saying bad words?
CHARLIE ADELSON: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So they started saying bad words?
CHARLIE ADELSON: He may -- he may have said a bad -- may have cursed, but he goes, listen --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: He left it with, he goes, listen -- it may have been like, this shit or whatever it is -- this shit's not going away and you need to -- you need to help Tuto's fam-- whatever his name is -- family out the way you're helping out Katie and Tuto. And I go, nobody -- I don't know who you're talking about, and I don't -- I don't know what I can do for you. I said -- he goes, you know -- he goes, well, it's not going away, and he says -- he says, do the right thing. You've got to help them out. which when I first --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And you should have like, who are you, number one.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, he told me he was his brother. Obviously he's not going to give me his real name. And I was being really polite to him. Like I've got --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hold on one second. You got it? Okay. Give me two minutes and I'll be right there. I was being really polite.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But he said he's a brother from Broward?
CHARLIE ADELSON: No, no, no, he says, I know him from Broward, or I saw him down in Broward.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: So I don't know if like this guy they're talking about was incarcerated in Broward or held in Broward or whatever, but he referenced Broward. He referenced Katie and Tuto --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So they're saying --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- and family.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- my name again. Uh-huh
(affirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, so your name and -- and some other guy's name I don't even fucking know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: You know, some -- was saying -- talking about Tuto, which I don't even fucking know who -- who that is, so that's two people I don't know of. And he's talking about your family, saying your family's being helped out, which I don't fucking know. I mean, other than the hours I give you to go up in the office on the weekends to take care of shit.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But -- but that's -- I do, I help you out. You fucking earn the money on weekends when you go up.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And is this the 305 number you called, the 305?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yep. And he -- he left it where he said --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And it rang a long time?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I want to say it was like on the seventh or eighth ring that it picked up. And he left it with --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's a long time because usually --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, yeah, I know. I was almost --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- phone calls --
CHARLIE ADELSON: I was almost like -- and he was asking me, like, you know, who is this? He goes -- he goes, listen, I gave that paper to a lady. He goes, who are you? TI go, don't worry about it. I go, I'm trying to figure -- I'm trying to find out what's going on.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh Caffirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: So, you Know, this person is under the assumption that I'm helping.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: They said they're a friend in Broward, or they said they're a brother from Broward?
CHARLIE ADELSON: He said he was his -- he said he was this guy's -- some -- this guy who evidently told my mom he was incarcerated, his brother. And he's saying that he has not been paid and his family has not been taken care of, and this is not going away. And I'm like -- I mean, I -- I'm not -- I mean, I don't help -- I don't just give charity out. Like you come in my office --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, like you can't be like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- you work.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- Cinaudible) like freaking people threatening you and mentioning names --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and -- you know what I mean?
CHARLIE ADELSON: And he sounded, honestly, he didn't sound Latin and he sounded like he had just -- you know, there's a little bit of a New York accent to his -- to his toughness.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: So --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But like well spoken?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, wasn't -- didn't threaten me at all, did not threaten me at all. He just let me know, this ain't -- he goes, this is not going away and you need -- and he's like, you need to take care of him, you need to do the right thing, he was there for you. And I'm like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And I go -- I go, I don't know. He goes -- I go, I don't know who this person is, I said, but, I said -- I said, let me call you back later. That's how I left it with him. I said, I'll -- I said, sir, I said, I don't know who this guy is you're even talking about, but let me give you a call back later. Okay? He's like, okay, do the right thing. which --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: He said, do the right thing?
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- do the right thing -- do the right thing, dude, sounds like a fucking cop that's fishing, that's where an investigator or someone's playing games. But I don't -- I don't -- he's coming up with a lot of fucking details, and I'd love to know these details, because I don't know two of the people's names they're talking about. And you may -- you may be even the wrong Katie, and then I feel like a -- more like a dumbass.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly. Just one -- a little quick recap, just because I don't want to like, you know -- like how did -- how did like the conversation start?
CHARLIE ADELSON: It rang, and he goes, who is -- he goes, hello? I go, hi. He goes, who is this? And I go, I'm returning a phone call. And he goes, what is this in reference to? So I said --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's exact words?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yep. He goes, what is this in reference to?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Reference to. Wow, those are some educated words.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. No, no, no, he was well spoken when my mom met him. Like he goes, what is this in reference to? So I said, I'm returning a call that Simon -- I'm returning a message that Simon had left this morning.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That was the name, Simon?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, that was the name when he called up my office and spoke to Erica and said, listen, I gave a piece of paper to Mrs. Adelson last week with a number on it, tell her to call it, and this is Simon.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So, I said -- I said, okay. I said -- I said, I'm returning a message from Simon, so then he knew that it was in reference to this fucking nonsense.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh Caffirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: So I said, you know, like what I told you. I said, you know -- I go -- he goes, well, you -- I know that your family -- the family's been --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- giving money --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: He kept -- he kept referencing that, like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But he --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- we're giving all this money to a fucking family, like -- and referencing, there was two names, there's Tuto and Tuco or whatever.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: That supposedly I'm giving money to you and some other dude --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- and your family. I don't know these people. Never met them. So, it's real interesting.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And he's saying he's a brother -- is he brothers with this person that he's saying is incarcerated?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, he's saying he's his brother who's incarcerated. But he didn't --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And he's saying he's from Broward?
CHARLIE ADELSON: He said he's -- he said -- in reference to something, I was with him in Broward.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I was with him in Broward.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So I don't know, is this guy incarcerated in Broward County? Is he from Broward? I don't know who these -- who these people are. But I don't like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- the fact that they're referencing --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible), no.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- your name --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, definitely.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- and your family, and who -- I don't know who this dude is that you're with or if they're just making up names --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- or if I -- if we should just go to the FBI and say, you know what, let's -- let's play phone tap.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So I don't -- you know what I'm saying, though?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You should have been like, well, you're doing a lot of threats, number one. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about, number two.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, he never -- he never said he was (inaudible) and he was -- you know, I just wanted him to keep talking.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: And that's why I wanted to just --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, to get a feeling of who the person is?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, because he wasn't like -- you know, he was wanting to know who I was, and I go, it's not important.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And he said -- but when he left it with, yo, he goes, yo, listen, he goes, you gave him money. He has not been paid. His family hasn't been paid. It's fucking wrong. And -- or he's like, it's wrong, and he goes -- he goes, this ain't going away. He's like, do the right thing, take care of him, he helped you out. I'm like, I don't -- I go -- I go, I don't know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible). who?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I go, I don't know him. TI go, my family --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Did you pull his teeth out or what, like what the fuck does that mean?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I think -- listen, it could be a lot of --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Is he a patient?
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's a wacky --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's like you run across so many people every day.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Listen, in two seconds you read something in the newspaper or you Google the last name, and in three minutes, the homeless man today has the technology to know where you live, where you work --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Right. But now they're calling me. Iwas in a meeting. I stepped out. Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Let me --
CHARLIE ADELSON: So --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Let me find out who the --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Listen --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- fuck is he referencing, all of this.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, they're --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But I will call that number.
CHARLIE ADELSON: They're picking it up. Whether you want to call it or if you have a friend that could be convincing, because -- tell someone to like stop the shit.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (305) 712-5570, correct?
CHARLIE ADELSON: 65-- yeah, (305) 712-5570.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: They need to know that I'm not -- hey, I -- it's fucking stupid what they're doing.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'm not paying anything (inaudible) --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: A111 right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- guilt Cinaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. No. What the hell you talking about?
CHARLIE ADELSON: The only thing I wanted to do was collect my reward from the FBI if I know who it is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Of course. No. I want these people to go -- I don't want these people to go to jail for like freaking like threatening.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Do you know what -- dude, you know what kind of vacation I could get with that money?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I need a fucking vacation.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right. Let me -- let me go and get going.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. I'll talk to you later. Call me later.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right. Thanks. Bye.
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So obviously we have the undercover name morphing from Sammy to Simon, right? Nobody ever said Simon --
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, Counsel testifying.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- did they?
MR. DECOSTE: Move to strike.
JUDGE WHEELER: Let's put it in the form of a question.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did anybody ever say Simon?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did the undercover ever represent himself as Simon?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. He said Sammy.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And Charlie Adelson indicates on this call that he doesn't know who Tuto is. who is Tuto?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Same objection.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Charlie Adelson says on this call that he doesn't know who Tuto is. Who is Tuto?
PATRICK SANFORD: Tuto is the nickname for Sigfredo Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And Katherine Magbanua knows that?
PATRICK SANFORD: correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Does she enlighten him as to who Tuto is?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, burden shifting.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does Katherine Magbanua enlighten Charlie Adelson as to the fact that Tuto is Sigfredo Garcia, her children's father?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she doesn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what about Tato. who is Tato?
PATRICK SANFORD: Tato is Luis Rivera. That's his nickname.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And does Katie know who Tato is?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, she does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And does she advise Charlie Adelson that she knows there's a Tato named Luis Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she doesn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: who is the childhood friend of her kids' father?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And a friend of hers as well?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: She says at the end of the call that she's going to call that number, and we reiterate the number again. Does she ever call the number?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I want to go to what we've labeled as Z. This is a text message. where in time is this text message relative to the call we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Can I refer to my notes?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You may.
PATRICK SANFORD: Call 2?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
PATRICK SANFORD: It is a text message from Katie to -- Katherine Magbanua to Sigfredo Garcia on the same day at approximately 12:57 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So after the call we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, approximately maybe seven minutes, five, seven minutes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Could we publish the contents of text Z, please. ~=BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And does Katherine Magbanua wait for Sigfredo Garcia to call her back, or does she begin calling him?
PATRICK SANFORD: She began calling him, I believe. I have to refer to my notes though.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You may.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there's a call from Katie to Sigfredo Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And that's about 20 minutes after the text?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's at 1:22 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Could we publish call AA, please? I want to start it at the 50-second point.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Hello? Hello?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hey, you busy?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Hey.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, you just woke up?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Eating a -- eating a sandwich.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, my God. My freaking neck -- eating a sandwich again?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah, a sandwich, a ham and cheese sandwich with mayonnaise and mustard.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh. Ew, yuck. Okay. No, my head is pounding.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (Inaudible.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. I have like a migraine right now. I walked in --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: So do I. (Inaudible.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and it's like a meeting outside. There's like a meeting outside. I guess they have meetings on Thursdays. And then I had my own meeting in a conference room. Ay-ay-ay.
Okay. I have more information for you. And when I got a call this morning like I -- I couldn't -- I couldn't even take it, because I had to step out of my meeting because I just heard about it. And I was like -- because I got a call back to back to back. So -- hold on. Give me one second. I don't want my boss to come out. What was I going to tell you?
Okay. So this person contacted the office. Hello?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Whatever, supposedly he said his name was Simon. Okay? Contacts the office saying, oh, whatever, I had given a piece of paper to this person there. Obviously somebody's doing -- they're -- whatever they're doing. They're threatening. And like they're very, very close to reporting it already. whatever it is, he's getting pissed, because my name's involved and because -- this gets better. But I'm like, you know what, cut the bullshit, just tell me everything on the phone right now because I don't have time, I'm fucking working, like what -- what is it? Like, I want to handle this and I want to handle it like right now. So they said, okay. They called the office.
I was like, look, I've tried to contact that number. It's not a working number. They're like -- I was like, why don't you go ahead and star 67 and go call the fricking number, and then whatever, that person did it. They go, okay, I'm returning a phone call. And then the person goes, who are you? And they're like, doesn't matter. I'm returning a phone call regarding something of a paper or whatever. And then they're like, okay, well, we know you've been helping out -- they said my name and your name and I --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Wait.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: They said Kate-- they said Katie and Tuto?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, they say our name, that you've been helping them out. And he's like, I don't even know what the fuck they're talking about. TI don't even know. I only -- I don't even know if you're the right person that they're talking about. For all I know, it could be another Katie or whatever. And I was like, okay. What else did they say? They're like, oh, well, they're a brother -- they're a brother of this other person that is supposedly incarcerated, and they're a brother of them, and that they know him from -- from -- from Broward. I don't know if they were together in Broward and he got out or whatever the case was. But he's like, but his family needs help. Do the right thing. Like, this -- the fact -- he's like, we know for a fact that you're helping them. I'm like, helping who out? Yeah, I've been helped. I work for you people. Like, that's it. I was like, well, that's not helping me out. That's me working for you. And I was like, I don't know what they're talking about. So -- but they said, do the right thing.
His name is supposedly Simon. They're a brother of the person that's incarcerated, and they said that name. And I was like, no, this needs to stop, like this needs to stop. Because somebody's harassing me, somebody's harassing your family, and they're putting my name and then our -- and that other person's name. It's getting too detailed. It's somebody that he knows for sure.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: For sure. He said the other person had -- like he was trying to get him to talk more. He's like, the person has like maybe a New York accent. He -- some of the words was a little bit, you know, like he wasn't threatening at all. He was just saying, you need -- it's time for you to help out this person and their family because he needs it because we know that you're helping out --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: So what person and what family? what person? what family?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Tato and his family because they need it. And then before the -- and he goes, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. And the person goes, well, do the right thing.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: well, did he tell him, well, listen, if you guys keep harassing me, we're going to call the cops?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what I said. I was like, why didn't you just say that? Oh, no, the person said, this is not going to end; do the right thing.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Did he get information where he wanted me to meet --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get the phone number. Get the phone number.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: The number that you keep giving me are the wrong numbers.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, no, no. (305) 712-6570. They picked up. Because I was getting tired of it. I don't know what's happening or whatever, but --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: 712-6570?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, no, no. (305) 712 -- 712-6570.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: That's what I said.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: who the fuck this is, it needs to stop. They obviously know somebody. They're putting my name, they're putting your name, they're putting --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay. All right. All right. All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and they're harassing family.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay? All right.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Are you going to work right now?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (305) 712-6750? I mean 57--
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Fuck. Just text it to me, man.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Text it to me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, I don't want to.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Just text it to me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: 712-6570.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right. Bye.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right. Bye.
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does the Defendant say the name Charlie or charlie Adelson to Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not at that time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: She calls him, that person?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: She indicates, I worked for you before, talking about she worked for Charlie Adelson before. was Katherine Magbanua still getting paychecks from the Adelson Institute as of the time this call was made?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And there's a lot of talk about Broward and the fact that someone's in Broward. Was Luis Rivera incarcerated in Broward at this time?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe he was at that time, yeah, that's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Our next call is BB. Can you tell us about that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: Can I refer to my notes?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You may.
PATRICK SANFORD: BB is a call from Sigfredo Garcia to Katherine Magbanua on the same date at 1:46 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May we publish BB, please?
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello. Hello?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Hello.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. (Inaudible) a fucking phone again. But I was just going to call from my phone and then dump it Cinaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: What happened?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I was going to call from my phone, bro, and then I'm going to get rid of my phone. So I got to call it from my office.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. I mean, call from somewhere else, but like -- or block it. Don't do it from your office. It's your office. You know what I mean? Do it from your phone.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: No, I'm not calling from my office. I'm calling from my phone. And just -- and then I just dump it, get rid of it. I don't know. Finding a fucking payphone is impossible, bro.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, but Cinaudible).
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right. All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Use somebody -- use a friend's phone. (Inaudible).
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Not yours. A friend's.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Oh, all right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right. Bye.
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And we can go straight to CC, please. And, Agent Sanford, is this call 4/28 at 2:09 p.m.?
PATRICK SANFORD: May I refer to my notes?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You may. This is CC, or your call number 1400.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, 4/28 at 2:09 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish CC, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (305) 712-6570. You sure that's the number, right?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Say it one more time, 305.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: 712-6570.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right. Some fucking Puerto Rican answering machine, shit. I don't know who the fuck -- I don't know. I'm going to try to call them again though.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I need to get this fucking -- I'm going to call -- I'm being a real fucking person, I'm calling them from my fucking phone. (Inaudible). All right. Bye.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Is -- remember that other one? Do you think it's that one?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I don't know, man. TI don't know. I don't know. It sounds like a fucking Cinaudible). The message sounds like a Nuyorican nigga.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (Inaudible). I'm busy, on the answering machine. Call me back. (Inaudible). Like -- like what? I don't know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what the answering machine said?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Shut up.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: That's what it says. I swear to God.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Shut up.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Swear to God, bro. The fucking answering machine says, (inaudible). I'm busy. (Inaudible). Like, what the fuck? It's like, yo, are you stupid, dude? Are you some kind of fucking moron?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what they told you?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: No. That's what the answering machine says when you call the number. No one answered the phone.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Huh. Okay. That's weird.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: That's odd. That's what I'm saying.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Very. Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Are they fucking -- are they that stupid they have to use the number, or do they pretend to be that stupid so that we think they're that stupid?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I don't fucking under --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Definitely Nuyorican?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: New York, Puerto Rican.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh (affirmative response).
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Nuyorican.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh (affirmative response). Broward.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: A 305 number, so how is it in Broward?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. But I'm saying, he said Broward.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: The nigga is -- that nigga ain't, nah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
SIGFREDO GARCIA: It sound -- and it sounds like -- it sounds like -- it doesn't sound like -- I don't know, man. I don't know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Bye.
(Audio concluded. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So, Garcia is reporting this answering machine. Was there an answering machine outgoing greeting on our undercover number?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And did Garcia call the number and get the answering machine?
PATRICK SANFORD: There was a call to the voice mail, that's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And did he ever actually talk to the undercover?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it went to voice mail.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was that the only time Garcia ever called?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So he got this voice mail. was he accurately relaying the nature of the outgoing greeting on the undercover?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I believe so. It was in Spanish, but, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And I can't remember if I asked you, did he leave a message for the undercover?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he did not leave a message.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And then in the next call we're about to hear, Defendant tells Charlie Adelson that she called the number?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, facts not in evidence, Counsel testifying.
JUDGE WHEELER: They're in evidence, but let's ask -- put it in the form of a question.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In the next call that we're about to hear, Defendant tells Charlie Adelson that she called the number, not that she had Garcia call. Did she ever call the number?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And in all of these calls, does she ever say Garcia's name to Charlie?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Or Charlie's name to Garcia?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish DD.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello? Hello? Hey. Hello?
CHARLIE ADELSON: So what's -- yeah. Can you hear me?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. So --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hold on. Hold on. Give me two seconds. Let me just walk out.
Thank you.
Okay. So, it was weird. TI called the number, right, and like the answering machine, there's like something in the answering machine now, like, what the fuck? Like some ghetto guy, like talking on an answering machine, and said one of the names you said. Like, I don't understand the joke. I don't get it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So it was just an answering machine, no one spoke to you?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. Like they didn't pick up.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And like were they talking all --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And then the answering machine, all of a sudden -- I don't know, like because I can't hardly remember, like my friend has to like find out for me. You know? And it was like they -- they said -- I don't know if they said their name was -- was whatever, Tuto or Tato, whatever shit they said on the answering machine. All of a sudden, now -- now it has an answering machine, like a voice mail, I mean.
CHARLIE ADELSON: what did the voice mail say?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, I don't know. Let me find -- let me find out, because it's like I can't like really talk at work, and then I couldn't --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- really understand.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Call -- when you call, do you call with -- with the call block?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Do you call --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, but it doesn't matter. No matter what phone you're using, it still show -- you know?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Well, it show -- it doesn't show who's calling though.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. I know how to block a call.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Not the point, but --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Star six seven. So I did that. It rang seven times.
I'll be there in one minute. without Tylenol? Vicodin is acetaminophen. It's ibuprofen. It's not Tylenol. Yeah.
Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You know, it's like fucking lady, get the fuck out the way, stupid ass.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. I would -- I would do this, I would, I guess, just call again later and --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, I'm going to say, you know what, with all this crank calling, I'm going to call from every fucking body's phone and fucking leaving a message on everybody's fucking phone, from everybody's phone. You want to play games? I'll play games.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Really fucking odd because they --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's weird they pick up --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- it picked up on the --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- for you.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And they -- they called and -- I mean, the only thought in my head would be is -- except that one thing, maybe you could find out, or I'm going to wait a couple days and then I may call the person back. So the person was -- when they answered the phone at first, they weren't that ghetto, and as they started talking to me, they started acting -- talking more tough, but it was more of like a -- I could hear a New York accent in there, and it sounded like a white guy.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. No, no, no, the voice mail sounded Nuyorican, but I got to find out what's going on. But I'm saying I'm going to -- I'm going to call from somebody else's phone, because I don't want my -- because you know I use this phone for work.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right. And -- and the thing is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And the last thing I need is like somebody crank calling me.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right. Listen, the one thing is this, either maybe that person will want to meet someone and talk to them about what their issue is, or I want to ask the person --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- and say --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: They're going to have an issue, because you don't just go threatening people, throwing out names.
CHARLIE ADELSON: They're -- they're saying that I'm helping a Ka-- or not me, but my family is helping a Katie and her family and some other guy that's named, you know, with a T that I've never -- I'm like, dude, I don't -- never met any of these people. He goes, well, you're not, but the family has been, and they've been helping them -- her and her family and this other guy.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You haven't met, but then they're -- like it makes no sense to --
CHARLIE ADELSON: But he's like -- he's like -- because --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- he asked me who I was, and I was like, none of your business. So I was almost -- well, in hindsight, what I should have said was, who -- because I have a big -- because this is a big family and there's lots of cousins.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: who -- who in my fam-- the Adelson family is a big family.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: So what I should have said to the guy is, who in my family, who in the Adelson family --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh Caffirmative response).
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- owes somebody money? Give me the name.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Of course --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Give me the name --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- we can like pinpoint it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- and then I will go to that person in that family and say, who did you not pay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I want to know the name -- I want to know the name. The only name they keep throwing out is that this -- that this Adelson family is helping out Katie and some guy named T and their family, and this guy needs your help, and it's not right. And he's like, this problem is not going away. He goes, this is not going away. He's like, it's fucked up --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- that you're not helping.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's a threat right there.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'm like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's fucked up that you're not helping? Like, who the fuck are you? why the fuck -- like, who are you?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Listen, that's like me calling someone up and being like, yeah, I know you killed JFK, you need to pay me. Okay. well, guess what? You didn't kill JFK.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That is the wrong example. Like, what does that have to do with anything? I don't get it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, my point is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You always use that example. Like, I don't get it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Because look -- well, because JFK died in 1963, and you weren't born then. My point is, is that I had nothing to do with any of this craziness. I want to know who -- who in my family owes somebody money, because I'm going to go to that person and say, what's going on? That's what I'm --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: The next -- the next conversation I have with this person is -- is going to be me -- if it comes to it, me saying, who owes money? If someone owes money, you got to give me a name, not like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, exactly. And be specific.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Tell me, who in my family --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Where do you want to meet?
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- my mom --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: who are you?
CHARLIE ADELSON: My mom -- my mom doesn't know who any of these people are. My dad --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. TI want to set up --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- doesn't know who any of these people are.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- whoever this fucking person is trying to fucking say shit or do whatever it is to your family, starting to harass your family, like it's getting me mad, so fucking mad.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And I don't know -- I don't know why they keep bringing up people who I've never met. That's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And, see, I don't -- that's why, it's like, who are you, number one. Okay. You need something. who are you then? what's your real name? what's your address? who do you have a problem with?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. who -- who in my family owes you money? And don't say the last name, because I'm going to go to that person and tell them, if you owe this person money, what is it about? Number one. And then I'm going to tell them, go pay them. Okay. But you got to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- tell me who to go talk to. Not like, oh, somebody with the last name Adelson. well, guess what? That's like saying someone with the last name --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And calling your office --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- of Rodriguez.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and shit. Like, what is that?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, someone with the last name Rodriguez. So it's funny. well, give me the fucking first name and I will go talk to -- if it was my brother who is behind this, I'm going to fucking find out. I mean, fuck, if it’s my brother, I'1] turn him in and get the reward money. My brother's a piece of shit.
So I'm saying, like, give me the name of who owes your friend or friend's family money, and this guy said to me, he said, listen, I was with him up in Broward; I know everything that went on.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I was up with him in Broward. That's what --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Talking about --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- I'm trying to understand.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, talking about Broward.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I was up with him in Broward doing what?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I don't know. Some guy he's talking about.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Is it a family member? But he said he's a family member --
CHARLIE ADELSON: He said he was his brother.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- of somebody who was incarcerated.
CHARLIE ADELSON: He said it was this -- that guy Tuco or whatever's brother. He said, I'm his brother who was with him up in Broward when he told me everything that happened. That's exactly what he said.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: who was up with him in Broward and --
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI don't know what he was --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- told me everything that happened?
CHARLIE ADELSON: TI don't know if he was in jail with him --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: where was he --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- visiting him in jail.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like he needs --
CHARLIE ADELSON: I don't know if he was --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: He needs to like fucking -- if -- like if people just can be fucking Googling shit or whatever it is --
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, and that's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and --
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, exactly. And the only reason I'm even bothering calling you is because they keep wanting to talk about you, or if it's the wrong person, then I feel even horrible. But this person doesn't matter, like they're still harassing my fucking family and I want it to stop. I mean, when you -- when you meet someone face-to-face on the street, when you send them a letter, and then when you start calling their office, the next call is to the FBI.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, I agree. I would personally --
CHARLIE ADELSON: And my thing is this --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- go there --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- I don't -- I don't want anyone to go to jail, because you know what, people get mad when they go to jail and they feel like they have to get somebody back. Same when -- when my jet ski got stolen, I did not -- I don't even care who fucking stole it. It's insured. Give me my money back. It sucks it got stolen. Move on. TI wouldn't want to catch the guy who stole my jet ski. why? It's grand theft. I don't want to put anyone in jail who knows where I fucking live.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
CHARLIE ADELSON: (Inaudible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But you know what? If this person keeps fucking saying shit, then they need to start giving information. They need to start saying something instead of --
CHARLIE ADELSON: They need to -- they need to tell me who owes the money.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Not a fucking psychic. Nobody's a psychic.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I mean, my family's got a lot --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: What's their problem exactly?
CHARLIE ADELSON: My family's got lots of members, so -- or it could have been a cousin of mine. It could have been my brother. Like who -- who owes the money, and I will call that person now.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And what money, like who? Like, you know, you could -- I could threaten anybody saying -- can't do that. Like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: No, but let's see --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- if somebody calls my phone back, like I don't -- like I'm always like, hey, who is this?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'm just -- I'm just curious to see who's so interested in your family and what's going on.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's why. It's like -- that's why it's pissing me off. It's like why -- why am I --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Katie --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- being thrown into something?
CHARLIE ADELSON: If they weren't talking about you and some other guy whose last -- whose name goes by T -- it seems like everyone goes by T these days -- but whatever the guy's other name is -- he said it so quick, I don't even remember -- he was talking about you, your name, and then some other guy's name begins with T.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But you're just saying too much now. I don't even know what the fuck you're saying. You're --
CHARLIE ADELSON: That's what -- I'm repeating to you what the guy said that --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know, I heard you the first time, but it's like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: But that's the only reason --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- now you're just --
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know, but I'm saying --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- fucking repetitive and like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Sorry, I always do that.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- it becomes nonsense.
CHARLIE ADELSON: The only reason -- the only reason I called you is because this guy is bringing you guys up, which has nothing to do with me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know a million people that starts with a T. I know a million. I know a (inaudible), a -- a freaking Tony, a freaking Taco, a freaking -- bro, everybody has a nickname, like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: And, dude, I'm so bad with names.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- that's pissing me off.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I think I called the guy Simon or Sammy, or I don't even know what the fuck I called him.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Fucking Simon, that is such a fucking white person's name.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But then when I told my mom I called Simon, my mom goes, Sammy. TI go, oh, it begins with an Ss. I fuck everyone's name up.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Now it's Sammy. And like, oh, but then he responded.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Sammy or Simon.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh. what is your last name? what is your -- what is your address --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- so that I can send your mother a fucking letter or -- or meet your mother in the freaking middle of the street.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. Let's find --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's going to be the next call.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yep. Let's find him.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right.
CHARLIE ADELSON: what's his -- what's his problem? Because he's about to have a big problem.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: He's going to have a fucking big ass problem.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And I'm -- oh, my God, I am the fucking wrong person to -- God forgive him that he fucking said the wrong fucking name, because now it becomes my business.
CHARLIE ADELSON: They'll pick a new name next time to reference. All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But I hate that shit.
CHARLIE ADELSON: By the way, did you ever get a chance to pick up that package?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I fuck bitches up for no reason.
CHARLIE ADELSON: You never picked up the package, did you?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I mean, I'm fucking all the way right here that I got to get --
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- Eddie and my kids. I got to see -- I'm trying to figure out if I can go up like later on.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay. Let me know, but I have --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: What time you get off of work?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I'm still here. I'll probably be here at least another hour.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. But, I mean, you're going to be home, right?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. I'll be home -- I should be home by 7:00.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Well, you can meet me halfway so I don't have to drive all the way over there.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know. Okay. I forgot --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I got to tell you -- I got to tell you stuff about work anyways. I have a lot of shit that I have to tell you about work.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Gosh. All right. Yeah, I've been getting bad reviews online (inaudible). That's it. But let me --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I put nothing but good reviews. what are you talking about?
CHARLIE ADELSON: I know. I know. All right. Let me -- let me call you later.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Bye.
(Audio concluded.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Agent Sanford, was the name Tuto or Tato on the outgoing message from the undercover's answering machine?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it was not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In this call, the Defendant indicates that she will personally go to the FBI. Did she personally go to the FBI to report these matters?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I want to go to the text message, EE. If you could please reference your notes and advise us when this is and who it's to and who it's from?
PATRICK SANFORD: E is from Sigfredo Garcia to Katie Magbanua. It's on 4/28, same day, at 7:39 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And he's indicating that he called three times and did not get an answer. Do we know if that's true or not?
PATRICK SANFORD: we only had one call to the undercover number.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And then call FF, what's that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Can I refer to my notes?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You may.
PATRICK SANFORD: FF is a call from Katherine Magbanua to Charlie Adelson on the same date at 7:49 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish FF, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hello?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey. what's going on?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hey. Called that number three times. The first time like we left a message in Spanish, and then for some reason like that voice mail says Puto. You know what puto is, right? Like a bitch. Like, oh, this is Puto. Like, why would you have that as your voice mail?
CHARLIE ADELSON: In Spanish it said, oh, this is Puto?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, Puto. Puto is like -- puto in my language is a food, a type of food, but supposedly that voice mail that they have set up, the guy says, puto, what sounds like puto.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And then what does -- what does he say on the voice mail?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like it's something in Spanish, like you've reached Puto, whatever, whatever, and he -- and it's in Spanish. So he left a message in Spanish saying, whoever the fuck this is needs to fucking call me and needs to stop threatening my fucking family.
So -- and then, okay, just keep trying.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But they don't pick up. So now somebody's either spooked, because what the fuck is going on, or I don't know.
CHARLIE ADELSON: All right. well, that's -- that's good. That's good. The person's going to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like other things are like running in my head, because like with the names who you're saying, I'm like maybe it's like somebody's trying to like be -- like, you know, try to be an information or something or whatever. Like, you know, there were so many things like going on.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, and -- and I -- I'm thinking the same thing, too, someone's playing --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But then it's like -- yeah, but then you know there's people you can trust and then people you can't. But then it's like, I don't know. I don't know. I honestly -- like it's like aggravating me.
CHARLIE ADELSON: But, listen, it could have been --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hold on. I'm on the phone. Don't talk to me. If I'm on the phone, don't talk to me. Be quiet.
Hello?
CHARLIE ADELSON: It could have been someone reading the newspaper and playing games. Like I said --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Whoever it is, they're playing with the wrong person.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. And I don't know how the fuck they got your name, but they didn't use a last name. So if they --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly. It could be anybody.
CHARLIE ADELSON: It could have been another -- another Katie and another Taco, or whoever the fuck they said. I don't even remember the name. But the point is, is that they need to stop.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, exactly. Well -- I'm on the phone. Okay. I don't care, but I'm on the phone right now, so don't talk to me right now.
Like my -- like I'm boiling for real right now, like you don't even understand. Like it's pissing me off, like pick up the fucking phone.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like now you don't want to pick up the phone? we're getting threats, but --
CHARLIE ADELSON: And --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- you don't want to make -- you don't want to pick up the phone?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So it's one of two things.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. No, I got you with that. And I just -- you know, fucking calling, you know --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Basically he said, hey, you're messing with my family, and if you don't stop, we're going to have problems, in Spanish. So whoever it is, they're going to have a problem with us no matter what.
CHARLIE ADELSON: And they're going to have a problem with me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Say what?
CHARLIE ADELSON: They're going to have a problem with me, too. I mean --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- listen, you're going -- you're going --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Whoever it is, is going to have a problem with either one of us or even if -- like, if I'm in the mix or not.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Dude, you're -- you're coming up to my fucking mom on the street. Then you're sending letters to their house. And you're fucking calling my dad's office --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: The office, exactly.
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- leaving messages, like that's three times.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Like, no.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, no, he was livid. My friend -- I told my friend, and I was like, look, can you do me this favor, because it's like I'm not a guy and I don't know if it's me they're talking about, and I -- and then he's like, that's some fucked-up shit.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And he's like, don't worry, not -- like, no matter what, like whatever it is, like I'm going to handle it, pointblank.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. well, I -- I feel better. I definitely feel better. I -- I apologize for not going and getting a Hallmark card, but I -- I got a little something, so -- traffic sucks.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm just -- it -- it's -- like right now, I'm about to go to like freaking -- like I'm taking a Zumba class because I'm like -- I'm like --
(Audio concluded.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. There's a few more minutes of that call, but I'm going to pause there. Judge, I have about 20 to 25 more minutes. would this be a good time to take our break?
JUDGE WHEELER: Yeah, I think it's probably an appropriate time at this point, if you're going to have that much longer.
So we'll take our lunch break now, and so we'll give the jury until 1:30. Again, no conversations, no -- with each other, with anyone else, no internet searches. we'll see everybody back at 1:30 and continue with the testimony at that time. Okay? Thank you.
(Jury exits courtroom.)
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Please be seated. Jury's out of the courtroom. The door is closed. And so we'll have about 20 minutes or so on direct, and so let's be prepared to go right into cross after that. We won't take a break in between that, but we'll take a break later in your cross-examination.
MR. DECOSTE: So, Your Honor, it would be a little bit difficult with the government, with the podium over here. I need to set up sort of like I did for Rivera with the table with that -- hook into the HDMI so that I get the projector.
JUDGE WHEELER: If you need to put a table up here now or whenever, I'm not going to take a break in between, so just make sure that you're preparing to go right into cross-examination. Okay?
MR. DECOSTE: would Your Honor allow me to come into the courtroom earlier than -- like ten minutes before --
JUDGE WHEELER: Sure.
MR. DECOSTE: -- and I can set up? So in about a half hour I'll come in.
JUDGE WHEELER: Yeah, that's fine.
MR. DECOSTE: I don't mean to cut the --
JUDGE WHEELER: We can make accommodations for that, for you to get in a little bit earlier and set up. I don't have a problem with that.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay? All right. we'll be in recess until 1:30.
(Court in recess.)
JUDGE WHEELER: Please be seated. All right. we're back on the record. Anything from counsel before we bring the jury in? Ms. Cappleman?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: MS. Kawass?
MS. KAWASS: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. Let's bring the jury in, please.
(Jury in courtroom.)
JUDGE WHEELER: Please be seated. And we're ready to continue with the testimony.
And, Ms. Cappleman, you may proceed.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So when we broke we had just listened to call FF, and in FF Magbanua is indicating that a threatening message was left on the answering machine of the undercover. was a threatening message left on the answering machine of the undercover?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it wasn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I want to go to the next day, April 29th, 2016. Can you tell us what call GG is, please?
PATRICK SANFORD: May I refer to the call log?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You may.
PATRICK SANFORD: GG is -- it's Charlie Adelson to Katherine Magbanua at 8:45 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If we could publish GG, please.
(An audio recording was published in open court. This transcript should not be considered a verbatim record of those proceedings due to inaudibles and inability to distinguish between speakers. It should be noted that the best evidence of the actual content of the digital recording is the digital recording itself.)
(Audio begins:)
CHARLIE ADELSON: Hey. What's up?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So -- didn't even have the guts to go on her phone and make a call from her phone. Nobody picked up. And then I don't know. TI don't know the rest of the story, whatever it is, or if my name is really on anything, or if they're even talking about me, but whatever it is, whatever games is going on, I'm going to figure it out.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. It's pretty ironic.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And it's, obviously, you hear anything, because now it's like -- now, remember I told you, I was like, oh, the -- apparently that -- the message, the voice mail now, is in Spanish, so he responded back in Spanish.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You know? Like, I wasn't, well, what was it that you said or whatever, and he's like -- like he said like some mean shit, like, oh, like, whoever the fuck it is or whoever fucking is playing fucking games, I'll fucking fuck you up in your motherfucking ass. Don't mess with my fucking family. It's going to be a big fucking problem.
CHARLIE ADELSON: The accent, being from where it came from, there's not a lot of that. I mean --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's the same accent. He said, I was -- I -- I said it, and I was like, the same voice. So now it's being Cinaudible). The thing is, like, I'm still cautious about everything else. You know?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. No, no, no, for sure.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's one scenario. But, you know, you've got to figure out other things just in case.
CHARLIE ADELSON: It's -- it's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- one of two.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It can only be one of two, apparently.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's somebody that's desperate, not from the inside, because there's too much from the inside that the other person knows from the outside.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So they won't risk -- that's why I know for a fact it's not from the inside. It's somebody trying to be greedy. Probably, you know, A, everybody knew -- everybody knew who I've dated in the past and stuff. I've had a couple boyfriends. You know?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But (inaudible). who knows?
CHARLIE ADELSON: It's -- it's somebody not from the first layer, but probably the second layer.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, and they just made a big mistake.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Fucking stupid.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So don't fucking worry, don't worry. Regardless whatever bullshit is happening, it will be taken care of, for the mere fact that I don't like anybody disrespecting your family, scaring your family after everything you guys have been through. You know? You've told me stuff that's happened before, so it's not like I'm oblivious to it.
CHARLIE ADELSON: No. It's out there --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But --
CHARLIE ADELSON: -- it's out there everywhere anyway. I mean, it's not --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. But I'm saying, like, you've mentioned stuff to me, too. Obviously, like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Of course.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- I've never probed you on it, because that's some personal shit, like --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- I'm going to -- that's like none of my business.
CHARLIE ADELSON: It's -- well, I just want it to stop.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm hoping that I'm on the right lead. And either way, my friend said that either way, no matter what, if for some reason he is wrong or whatever, like whatever way it is, it's going to go down, like he takes full responsibility of whatever, just because for the mere fact of my name.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, but listen, that's -- that's not any -- there's -- I mean, nothing of that sorts --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, but I'm saying if somebody -- somebody gets their ass whooped, somebody gets -- you know what I mean?
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. I mean, if someone -- if someone has to get their ass whooped, they have to get their ass whooped.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what I'm saying.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah, that would make sense.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: When you show face and -- when you show face and everybody is a little stunned --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. TI don't think it's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm not a good -- I'm a good reader of people, but some people are just really, really good at it, and I guess that's one talent that they have, one of the many talents. I mean --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- that may not be solely.
CHARLIE ADELSON: well, I can't wait to find out.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know, me too, and I really feel bad if they're not even talking about me, because this has become my issue now.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: As a friend, I'm doing it because of the mere fact that I don't think any parent should be harassed.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Nope.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So I completely, you know, understand where you're coming from, but sometimes you've got to step back and listen to what I got to say too.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Because there's always different scenarios to everything.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. No, it's not just -- it's not just always as it seems.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly. So let me caution, you fucking never know. There's fucking people that will try to fuck you over every fucking day.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Uh-huh Caffirmative response).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: For all you know, it's a fucking patient. Maybe they've --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Look --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- seen me in a dental office in the beach before, where I used to -- you know?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Who knows?
CHARLIE ADELSON: It's -- it could be -- it could be a lot of things.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what I'm saying. You know? You never know. That's why you got to throw a lot -- a couple things out there. You can't just be fixated on one thing. But, you know, people crack, so --
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah. Oh, no, it's going to -- it's going to -- things always come out, and somebody's going to be fucking someone, they're going to be running their mouth, someone getting mad at somebody and then they'll start saying, hey, you know who this was and then --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Or whoever it is. That's what I'm telling you, just like let me say things out of the blue. You know what I mean? Let me throw some stuff out there, because you can't be fixated on just one thing, because then it seems like you know too much, which we don't know shit.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I agree.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So if I say something, it doesn't mean necessarily like, yeah, like I'm not a psychic. If I was a psychic, I would have fucking known who's harassing you or me or whoever the fuck it is.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Ms. Cleo.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Because if they have a problem, that's the first thing, because the next call is going to be the fucking feds, it is, because it's too much.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yep, and that's -- I mean -- and -- I mean, that's like the -- the next step.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So, this is what I'm saying to you, again, just listen to what I say.
CHARLIE ADELSON: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Don't always go against it, don't take it to the heart, don't make it seem like that's really what I mean. Read between the lines --
CHARLIE ADELSON: I will.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and go with the flow.
CHARLIE ADELSON: I definitely will.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: The -- the sky is apparently blue, right? But some people --
(Audio concluded. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. There's a few more minutes of that call and a couple other calls, but I think I'm going to read the room and move on to our next issue here.
I'm going to try to clear up some questions surrounding the May 24th interview attempt of Katherine Magbanua. Did you participate in that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And we've heard a little bit about that but there's some confusion about what occurred with this Defendant's phone after that interview attempt. Can you explain to the jury what she did with her phone? Did she dump her phone, did she get a new phone, did she have --
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, leading.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- a burner phone or something else?
JUDGE WHEELER: No, that's not a leading question. She can ask it in that manner.
PATRICK SANFORD: After the interview attempt, yes, she started turning it on and off, and went and got a -- what we call a burner phone. There was a burner phone purchased and she began using that instead of her regular phone for the most part. She still used her regular phone some, but it was turning on and off.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And how did turning it on and off affect or impact your ability to monitor her movements or surveil her?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. The GPS tracking on cellphones like that is not actually GPS tracking, it's usually cell tower information, and it doesn't give you an exact pinpoint anyways, so when you turn it off, there's no way to actually ping the phone to see what tower it's hitting off of to be able to triangulate the approximate location.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was she still staying at the same location that she had been prior to the interview attempt?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. After the interview attempt, they left that residence and she never returned.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So how was it that you were able to locate her for her arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe it was the following day, we were getting intermittent pings, and as I was traveling down there, the TPD tech squad actually got a ping of a shopping center.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: The phone was in --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The following day after what?
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, sorry, after the interview.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: She was arrested the following day, or you're talking about Garcia's?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry. The next day we were -- I'm sorry, I am referring to the wrong one. Yes, the following day -- I'm sorry, repeat the question.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So, after the interview attempts, which occurred on May 24th, you said Ms. Magbanua never returned to the residence she had been living at. How long was she living in some other place unknown to you between the time of the interview attempt and the time of her arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: Several months. We never found exactly where she was living at after that point.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So she was difficult to track effective the interview attempt?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And I think you were talking about the next day, was she -- she was not arrested the next day, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she was not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you know when she was arrested?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not until, I believe it was October.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And in October you said you were having a difficult time tracking her. How were you able to locate her to make the arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: In October?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. When we were -- we were getting intermittent pings, and one of the pings ended up at a shopping center, a large shopping center with a bunch of businesses. We got in the area of the shopping center, we're riding through it and looking for her, and we saw her coming out of a store, going through the parking lot to a vehicle.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was there anything unusual about the way law enforcement approached her or the use of force in the making of this particular arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, absolutely not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And you said you were getting intermittent pings. were those on one or both of the cellphones that she was using at that time?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was, I believe, on one or both. I don't recall exactly. TPD was doing it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And law enforcement was attempting to track both cellphones, the burner phone, as well as the phone that she had carried regularly previous?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: One moment, please. No questions at this time, Judge.