Patrick Sanford — Direct (Part 2)
1,133 linesJUDGE WHEELER: Okay, we are on the record this morning in State of Florida versus Katherine Magbanua, 2016 CF 3036, 2018 CF 497. Ms. Magbanua is present along with her counsel and counsel for the state.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay, the first thing that I want to address are the two exhibits that I reviewed last night that the state is going to offer into evidence. It's Exhibit 128, which is a telephone call of the agent to the Adelson Institute, and then Exhibit 134, which is a phone call from Charlie Adelson to the undercover agent. Okay, I've reviewed both of those. Ms. Cappleman, does the state want to put their argument on the record, please?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, Your Honor. In reference to State's Exhibit 128, that is a law enforcement bump.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Subsequent to the bump, we've already talked about the main bump that started this. There was an additional bump in the form of the undercover calling the Adelson Institute and speaking to an employee there in an effort to drum up some more conversation on the wire. This bump will be discussed by the parties in the calls that have already been admitted by the court — calls U and V — after the bump reference the bump. So I think it's relevant to show, you know, what they're talking about. And then, do you want me to move on to 134, Your Honor?
JUDGE WHEELER: Well, why, why isn't it for the truth of the matter asserted? In what? By its content?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So the undercover is basically saying, you know, "I'm leaving a message for Donna Adelson." You know, there's really not a whole lot of content. Yeah, it's just to stimulate more discussion, and the parties are going to be talking about, "Oh, this undercover is reaching out again." I mean, of course, they don't know he's an undercover. It's not for the truth, because he is undercover posing as a gangster calling the Adelson Institute for the purpose of the ruse, as we've discussed before. So it's very similar argument to what we were making in reference to the initial bump, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. What about 134?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: 134 is Charlie Adelson's call to the undercover. This occurs between call X and Y on our existing Exhibit 99, and it's important to show that Charlie has reached out to the undercover, and his assessment of that call is that, you know, he's basically determined this is law enforcement and undercover operation by law enforcement. And that assessment is going to be discussed several times throughout the wire in the subsequent calls that Your Honor has ruled were admissible. So I think it's relevant to add context to the discussions among the parties and the change of the tenor between, you know, what should we do about this — it could be this, it could be that — versus, you know, now we think it is law enforcement.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, Mr. DeCoste.
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor. We still maintain that these are being entered for the truth of the matter asserted. We know that from the government's questions yesterday, for example, and I'm going to tie this into these new calls. They asked Agent Sanford, was "ex-girlfriend" — said yes; was "Katie" — said no. They are, they are saying they're not entering it for the truth of the matter, but they absolutely are. With respect — one second.
MR. DECOSTE: With respect to the calls of the undercover, if they're just trying to establish that there was communication that led to more communication, they don't need the content of the communications themselves.
MR. DECOSTE: And then one final note, and I hope this doesn't come off as repetitive: the fact that law enforcement was doing a ruse does not mean that the statements made by the people involved in the ruse are somehow untruthful and that they can't be offered for the truth of the matter. Law enforcement had a ruse. It doesn't carry over into those individuals. So that's all, Your Honor — on all previous arguments and motions.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. Thank you, Mr. DeCoste. All right. Both exhibits will be admissible. Neither one is for the truth of the matter asserted. Exhibit 128 is presented to show that there's an additional bump. There's really not much context or content to that telephone call at all.
JUDGE WHEELER: And Exhibit 134 is not a whole lot of content to that either, but it's to add some context to the other phone calls and also to show that Charlie Adelson did reach out to the undercover agent — not really what was said, because there's not a whole lot said, but the fact that he reached out. So it's not for the truth of the matter asserted. So both will be admissible.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. So, Ms. Cappleman, you're going to go right into the audio video this morning, is that correct? Okay. Anything that we need to discuss from the state's perspective before we bring the jury in? Anything from the defense? All right. Thank you. Okay, let's bring the jury in, please.
JUDGE WHEELER: Ms. Cappleman, we can bring Mr. Sanford back on the stand.
JUDGE WHEELER: Good morning.
JUDGE WHEELER: You just have this — okay, well, you can stand for the jury, but once the jury comes in, we'll swear you in again. Okay.
JUDGE WHEELER: Good morning. Good morning, everyone in the back row.
JUDGE WHEELER: Good to see everybody. Thank you for your timeliness. You may be seated.
JUDGE WHEELER: We're going to continue with the testimony, and we're going to swear Mr. Sanford in again. So, Madam Clerk.
COURT CLERK: Please solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
PATRICK SANFORD: I do.
JUDGE WHEELER: Thank you. Please be seated.
JUDGE WHEELER: And, Ms. Cappleman, you may proceed.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So when we left off yesterday, we had a meeting occurring between Katherine Magbanua and Charlie Adelson. This is the restaurant meeting with all the clanging dishes, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Tell us — I think you were saying that when they first met up, there was some time for them to talk that was not recorded, or no effort was being made. Can you tell us about that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. When he pulled up in the parking lot, she came out of Optimal Realtor and went to his vehicle and got into his vehicle and was in his vehicle approximately 10 minutes before they got out and then went into the restaurant.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And once they went into the restaurant, is that when the agents went in and positioned themselves, tried to get as close as they could to the two speakers?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Judge, at this time I'd ask to publish State's Exhibit 116.
JUDGE WHEELER: You may publish.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, everybody good with the headphones? All right, again, we have the volumes there, so sometimes these were made at a different time period so they might be a little bit different volume, but please just communicate with each other if we need to make any adjustments to those, okay?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And Judge, I think since this one's a little tougher to hear, I'll do the same thing I did yesterday, which is play about a minute, let you guys have a chance to adjust your volume, and then we'll start it again. All right, so we'll do that. If anybody has an issue, just please raise your hand and we'll make sure that we take care of it. Okay. And Judge, do we take care of the issue with the chair as well?
JUDGE WHEELER: We're still working on that, unfortunately, but we will take care of that by lunchtime. They've assured me that. Okay?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, I apologize for that.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Okay, Madam Court Reporter, you have those, and our volume is right here in case you need to adjust that.
MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, may I inquire — is this being played from the beginning?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: This is the middle. We're starting with the middle segment, Judge, which is the first place we can actually make out words.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, let's just make sure that the jurors' volume — all right?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So I just want to make sure everybody's volume is good, okay?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, let's let the jurors adjust the volume if they need it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, let's start from the beginning again.
AUDIO RECORDING: And that was the most very smart thing to do.
AUDIO RECORDING: That beat my mom.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's what my dad did.
AUDIO RECORDING: Obviously, that was the top of his game.
AUDIO RECORDING: You go out on the street.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know what I'm going to do with this shit, man. You didn't want to charge me with something — charge me and not, I'm talking about, sorry — charge me, charge me.
AUDIO RECORDING: It means a lot of stuff, you know. It means a lot.
AUDIO RECORDING: Now, we have a lot of tension.
AUDIO RECORDING: For the next 30 years, that, that all, the salary, the same thing, that, you know, the cameras, the funny cameras are here.
AUDIO RECORDING: We do it in a place where there's not a tree, there's not a camera pointing outside the building, the cashier, the court, the cashier.
AUDIO RECORDING: So, I'm saying that.
AUDIO RECORDING: This person is not just a black man. He is very equipped with details.
AUDIO RECORDING: Where do the details come from?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know. The big details I don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to tell it to my brother.
AUDIO RECORDING: Thank you.
AUDIO RECORDING: You just sat in my car, right?
AUDIO RECORDING: If you're dating in the car, I got you in that key. It was in my car. I mean, it was in the car.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, you wouldn't have been in my state if it wasn't for the DNA or fingerprints stuck in here and all of that stuff in the car.
AUDIO RECORDING: That proves, yeah, congratulations. You were in the car. It's not a crime to sit in a car.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'll just sat in the car. It's a crime to stand in a car. It's like, I don't know what you're talking about. I think it's crazy. So, I'm going to get in your car. My mom, she also looked like white, white, so did he have like, did he have a dog, or did he have a dog, and did he have a dog, or did he have a dog, or did he have a dog, or did he have a dog, or did he have a dog, or did he have a dog?
AUDIO RECORDING: It costs $19 to find out. And it probably rents you an apartment under $30. It's a problem. And the rent is like, you know, you're online. It's like $19, $29, $99. Buy anything you want. That's how these do.
AUDIO RECORDING: And it should be good.
AUDIO RECORDING: So, here's that.
AUDIO RECORDING: What? Oh, yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Some things, but not any.
AUDIO RECORDING: Anyway, the problem is this.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, so this is a helicopter.
AUDIO RECORDING: Where's the weapon?
AUDIO RECORDING: You're going to say.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: Car.
AUDIO RECORDING: Can I go to the park for the weekend? I'll bring it back on Tuesday.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, sure. Can you rent a car? So you've been in that car. I drive it to fucking Orlando. I brought it to the house in Orlando. I come back, and I go, here's an easy one.
AUDIO RECORDING: Thank you.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't have any problems telling people what to do to come back and help them.
AUDIO RECORDING: And what I do have is money.
AUDIO RECORDING: Let me get back again and again and again. Take that big one, money. It's all you guys want. It's not a cop.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's very aggressive.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's a cop. It's a cop-a-patty. Take another one. It's a cop.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's not a cop.
AUDIO RECORDING: Thank you.
AUDIO RECORDING: I got my phone because I got pumped to be close to the top of my phone. You're not looking at big pictures of my phone all day. Why don't you come back no more? You can look at all the big pictures.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's my answer.
AUDIO RECORDING: I got nothing to hide.
AUDIO RECORDING: If they're a bad guy, what is, go ahead and contact my team.
AUDIO RECORDING: I just got a little record positive on the phone. It's an old range that needs to be set up.
AUDIO RECORDING: What it set up is something like a bucket of 20 points and a bucket FBI. I'm going to take this guy down. We've been talking for 10 years. He's going to have your hand.
AUDIO RECORDING: There's a problem here. I don't want to embarrass him. He doesn't have to say anything.
AUDIO RECORDING: He's going to have to say that he's going to ask the store what happened.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's going to be, they're going to want to check out anybody who found that.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then there's going to be, it's not going to be funny.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then that's probably going to make a difference in the exact amount of action.
AUDIO RECORDING: This was my idea. I gave you money.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, this is what I'm saying.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I just want those muscles thinned, so you let them know that you can also help.
AUDIO RECORDING: I got a call from some friends of mine who say that you reached out to them and then you mentioned my name.
AUDIO RECORDING: Thank you.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, you look cool.
AUDIO RECORDING: You look cool enough to talk to those kind of angry people.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then, I'll tell you one time, they got me out.
AUDIO RECORDING: I was scared.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I told them, but that's it. You don't use anything other than the word help and charity.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, I can just, you know, I'll call them, I'll just, you know.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then now he's talking to his wife, and he's talking to him, and you're talking to each other, and you're talking to yourself, you better tell him how to do it. And what is my decision? It will be done.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know what I'm saying?
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, I don't care what I say, I just work out.
AUDIO RECORDING: Thank you.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right.
AUDIO RECORDING: I didn't know how to do it with you when you were together.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm like, okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, it's like, yeah, I love to surround with you guys together.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's a different story.
AUDIO RECORDING: The problem is, you need to, like, get my mom to turn it on. My mom will be okay. I'll be, you know, all that part of you. You know, you need to drive the car. She needs to buy a Jeep. What the hell is going to happen next month? You know?
AUDIO RECORDING: All of a sudden, it's like knocking at the door again and again and again and again.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't think there's going to be a parking lot.
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't see it.
AUDIO RECORDING: It doesn't happen.
AUDIO RECORDING: Thank you.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I have a house I literally had to bag out. I had it in my car. Hi, I have a house. If you want it, you guys can just hang out in my house later.
AUDIO RECORDING: I want you to take your bags.
AUDIO RECORDING: Raise the number down.
AUDIO RECORDING: Good.
AUDIO RECORDING: Go ahead.
AUDIO RECORDING: Thank you.
AUDIO RECORDING: And that's just a real number. I didn't have glasses, or I haven't? No, you haven't.
AUDIO RECORDING: You haven't?
AUDIO RECORDING: Which shocked you, too?
AUDIO RECORDING: That's what I'm saying.
AUDIO RECORDING: I think it's even worse, but let me put it this way. Please tell me if you have blackness.
AUDIO RECORDING: Because if you have blackness, I want you to take care of yourself. I want you to take care of yourself.
AUDIO RECORDING: Or, if you have somebody who has no problems I have no problem possibly doing that, hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: I've dealt with people banging their secretary. I've been in contact with somebody over a couple of days, like, last Saturday afternoon, and I've noticed that it's been a little bit of what I'm saying.
AUDIO RECORDING: I've been in contact with somebody over a couple of days, and I've noticed that it's been a little bit of what I'm saying. I've been in contact with somebody over a couple of days, and I've noticed that it's been a little bit of what I'm saying.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Agent Sanford, did you hear anyone in that recording say the name Dan Markel?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I didn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did anyone say the word "murder"?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I did not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you hear Charlie Adelson explain the background of this, meaning that his brother-in-law was murdered and his family is suspected to be involved?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection — motion in limine, improper opinion, evidence speaks for itself.
JUDGE WHEELER: Right, he can give his opinion as to — he can give his statement as to what he heard, but we're not getting into any specific statements that are going to be translated in the video. That's up to the jury to decide. But he can give his assessment of the video. I'm going to allow that. You may proceed.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So the question is, as far as what we're able to hear here, is there any background explanation to Catherine — meaning, you know, there was a murder of my brother-in-law in Tallahassee and my family is suspected to be involved?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection — speculation. There's a half hour that can't be heard at the beginning.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Of what we can hear in this recording, do you hear Charlie Adelson explaining to Catherine Magbanua anything like the background of this investigation — such as, my brother-in-law was murdered in Tallahassee, my family is suspected — to explain why it is that this person might be trying to blackmail his mother?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I do not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: To explain why it is that this could be a law enforcement sting on his family?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct, I did not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And the defense mentioned that there was time beforehand where we can't hear anything.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Time in the car, and some time on the video where we can't hear what they're saying, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And are you familiar with a sworn statement given by this defendant back in October of 2019?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what did she say at that time regarding when it was that she, for the first time ever, learned that Dan Markel was, in fact, murdered?
PATRICK SANFORD: She said it was not until Sigfredo Garcia was arrested is when she found out about the Dan Markel murder.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And on what day was Sigfredo Garcia arrested?
PATRICK SANFORD: I have to refer to my notes. I believe it was in May of 2016.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May 25th, 2016?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And so according to her, she did not even know that this victim, Dan Markel, had been murdered — that there even was a murder when this recording was made?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Or during the wire — any of the wire that we're going to hear — up until that May 25th date?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And at the time that the defendant made that statement, "I didn't even know there was a murder," had we clarified this video that we just watched right now — clarified as far as enhanced — had Keith McElveen done the work that we just watched?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he had not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: They are referencing the murder itself on this recording, aren't they?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection — leading.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Are you aware of any other incident that Charlie Adelson could be referencing that was on the BBC, Good Morning America, and the New York Times other than the murder of Daniel Markel?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection — improper question, calls for speculation, and argumentative.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Are you aware of any other incident that Charlie Adelson could be referencing on this video that was on the BBC, Good Morning America, and the New York Times?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I'm not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Judge, at this time I would like to move on to our Call F.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Agent Sanford, can you tell us who are the parties on Call F?
PATRICK SANFORD: This is a call from Charlie Adelson to Donna Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And how close in time is this call to the meeting with Catherine Magbanua that we just watched?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's — it's afterwards.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sorry, go ahead.
PATRICK SANFORD: Sorry, it's afterwards. I'd have to refer to my notes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, please refer to your notes if you can — use them to refresh you on how close in time this call that we're about to hear is to the Dolce meeting we just watched.
PATRICK SANFORD: Uh, the Dolce meeting was around 3:45 on the 20th, um, and it was about an hour long. This call that we're going to listen to is about 4:56 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: 4:56 p.m., correct? So within 10 or 15 minutes of Charlie Adelson departing from the meeting we just watched?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And he's calling Donna Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, let's publish the Call F at this time, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey honey, how are you? I'm sitting watching the boys and their tennis players. They're having a wonderful time. Yeah, I was concerned because they said they don't need to try the lessons, but they're having fun — fun because, you know, there's kids on the court, so they're all about the same level, so they're having fun with that. Great, that's fantastic. Yeah, that's good. Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Everything's fine. Yeah, yeah. And they uh — should make them live. Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: No.
AUDIO RECORDING: They're not, so that's it. So everything's fine. Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: What's tomorrow?
AUDIO RECORDING: Tomorrow's Thursday. Yeah, tomorrow. Yeah. We're going to be doing a lot of stuff. It's going to be a holiday.
AUDIO RECORDING: Getting the dinner ready.
AUDIO RECORDING: We're going to have recipes.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's going to be a rough holiday. Of course. Not an easy one.
AUDIO RECORDING: We're going to have everything.
AUDIO RECORDING: We're bringing ten lobsters in the morning.
AUDIO RECORDING: You're probably right. There was a complaint. Well, it's only us and the kids and their children.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, really?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. So it's just the boys and us and the kids. Do you think everything will be good for Saturday night?
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, you know, June's trying out for the Miami Dolphins cheerleaders.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, no way.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, no, she's actually a dancer.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh my gosh, she's an awesome dancer. She made it on the fifth round last year and got cut in the last, like — literally, like, when they have it down to, like, 60 girls and they take 45. Like, you can imagine how many girls try out for her. Oh, yeah. I've seen her on TV.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, she was an awesome dancer. She went to a dance class like three days a week and she's been training really hard.
AUDIO RECORDING: And she's actually probably in training school.
AUDIO RECORDING: You have to go back and get new rackets.
AUDIO RECORDING: That shouldn't be — gave you just that to use. Go back and get new two rackets. Because yours are too small.
AUDIO RECORDING: After the Boston tryout.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, what time did you get it?
AUDIO RECORDING: 5, 5:30.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Just tell me if you're going to come, because I'll set the table for you. Yeah, I'll find out.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Okay. No, I understand. It's not a problem. You'll just let me know. Set the table. Set for one more.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm excited for her. I hope she makes it. Yeah. Oh my God, that's a very exciting thing. Well, that's how she knew.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's how she knew Lauren's sister.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, okay. Hold on one second. Guys, wait a minute. I have to ask — I have to ask Pat something.
AUDIO RECORDING: Let me just run out to the court. All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So that call concluded with Donna indicating she's going to call Charlie right back. Does she call him back?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, she does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That's about five minutes later?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And just to refresh everyone's memory, what date are we on here?
PATRICK SANFORD: 4-20.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so this is the day after the bump, is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right, if we could have Call G, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Schedule one. Schedule it for Monday, um, and then —
AUDIO RECORDING: She's going to go off this. Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, so I'll talk to you. Yeah, anyways. You think she'll be okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, no, I don't think so.
AUDIO RECORDING: So —
AUDIO RECORDING: You'll be at our office all day tomorrow?
AUDIO RECORDING: Is That for the day? Well, then I'm going to pay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I'm very proud of you.
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, literally, for me to go, I'm leaving without a tie.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I would wonder about absolutely nothing. Really?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Your theory is correct.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes, I don't realize it's just something. It does them no good.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: At the end of the day, they're not going to gain anything just because you're in the same situation.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's not like you've ever threatened anybody or hurt anybody.
AUDIO RECORDING: No.
AUDIO RECORDING: The thing is that they're not hiding who they are.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right. Not at all. Not at all.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's why I had that other stuff in addition.
AUDIO RECORDING: What's that?
AUDIO RECORDING: That's why my thoughts were different.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I mean, it's not really hidden who they are.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's just weird. I mean, the whole thing is very weird because it's the kind of thing that can easily be traced.
AUDIO RECORDING: They can easily be caught or just put against them.
AUDIO RECORDING: Storing people is like up to 10 million dollars, right?
AUDIO RECORDING: No. It's not that bad.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. It could be a lot worse.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I will talk to you maybe tomorrow during the day or night. You'll let me know if everything is good for the dinner.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Agent sanford, I want to ask you about the first conversation that's captured on the wire between Sigfredo Garcia and Katherine Magbanua. When was that conversation?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was on 4-21, the very next day, at approximately 8:17 a.m. in the morning.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And at the time, are the two of them living together?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So they've already had an opportunity to talk in private between the call with Katherine Magbanua — I'm sorry, the meeting that we watched between Katherine Magbanua and Charlie Adelson — and this call that we're about to hear. Hold on one second.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Speculation as to whether there was a chance.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Have Katherine Magbanua and Sigfredo Garcia had an opportunity, between the recording that we just watched of her meeting with Charlie and the call that we're about to hear, to speak in private?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we were able to see them go home, and they were at the house together that night.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So this call then occurs the next morning at, you said, 8:17 a.m.?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Let's publish Call H, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to tell you something right now, and I'm going to make it very clear. I'm going to make something very clear because you're talking belligerent bullshit.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to make something very clear, okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: Why? Because you don't know how to apologize because you were wrong, okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: This is the same thing that happened last time.
AUDIO RECORDING: Listen, I have a one-plus-y matter that I have to attend to, okay?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I wanted to ask you, I want to ask you about that beeping you hear where it seems to cut in and out. What is that?
PATRICK SANFORD: That is the person who's monitoring the conversation.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's them minimizing it, stopping the recording of it and stopping listening to it, and then picking it back up a few minutes later, like they were instructed to do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So the requirement is to tap out if it doesn't seem to be relevant to the investigation, and then after a certain period of time you can pop back in and see if the tone has changed?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Was there another call between these same two parties shortly after the one we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was, uh, at 8:36, approximately. 10, 10-15 minutes later.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Publish Call I, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Ted Benz, everybody.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I don't remember if it was, I think, I think, just in case, I think, like, you have to pay for it, because the balance is $65.70.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, I think, you remember that I wrote it down, the amount that you're supposed to put?
AUDIO RECORDING: But I'm not sure if it's $60.50 or $65.70.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm trying to get a secured credit card.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm just telling you, I don't remember if it's either one of those numbers.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, you're picking them up today, so you'll find out when you get it. The amount that I gave you on a piece of paper, I don't know if it's $60.57 or $65.70.
AUDIO RECORDING: Got it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: So there's no credit cards that I can use in his school.
AUDIO RECORDING: So it makes no sense.
AUDIO RECORDING: Got it?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So the digits that the defendant is relaying to Sigfredo Garcia, it's either $65.70 or $60.57, et cetera, et cetera.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Are those digits significant to your investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, they are.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Why is that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Because the last four digits of the undercover's phone number that was put on the piece of paper flyer handed to Donna was 6570.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What's the next call that we have?
PATRICK SANFORD: Call J.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on the same day at approximately 9:31 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Who are the parties on this one?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's Charlie Adelson calling Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If we could publish J, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, what's up?
AUDIO RECORDING: On the tree.
AUDIO RECORDING: You did? I didn't want to come by the office.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like we did a real one, though.
AUDIO RECORDING: Me and Ninja's office.
AUDIO RECORDING: I have to pay rent.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm picking up a corner.
AUDIO RECORDING: The whole block.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to get it from there, the office.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to call my people. I'll check it. Just remember.
AUDIO RECORDING: If you wanted to come by, I'd be here.
AUDIO RECORDING: What time, though?
AUDIO RECORDING: About two o'clock.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm saying, yeah, it's going to be impossible.
AUDIO RECORDING: Because I have to go to work. Just to say. You don't want to come by the office?
AUDIO RECORDING: He did it until 5 :30, you know, when he was about to go on a date, and he went to Jason's, and he didn't even follow the tree.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, I see.
AUDIO RECORDING: Anyways, I think this is the best idea, regardless.
AUDIO RECORDING: Did you hear something else?
AUDIO RECORDING: Huh? Yeah, right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm really done. I went over some stuff, and I've got to have it.
AUDIO RECORDING: You still haven't heard from those people, right?
AUDIO RECORDING: What's that?
AUDIO RECORDING: You still haven't heard from those people?
AUDIO RECORDING: They came by on Monday.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no, no.
AUDIO RECORDING: You can fly with it. But he is going to look into a couple of things, a couple of properties regarding that and find out.
AUDIO RECORDING: You can't jump to the property to find out, you know, how is the security going to be, do you prefer glass and security, or there's a lot more into it.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm trying to do the research for that.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't think that's the case. Like, I feel like it was posted incorrectly, you know, when people buy things who don't.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: So it's like, you know, you go out fishing there and you see, you buy it, you throw the chums out, you know, they're all going to go around for the chum, and a bunch of the other pricing, it's like it was absurd. So it's, you know, way, way too high for pricing. The group is that much. Yeah, if they really want to get something, that they would, they would, they would afford it, to be able to afford it, you know. Yeah, hang on, hang on one second. Danny's gonna ask you on top of it, drop the app, Danny. 109 versus 89, it's the same. I mean, sure, you can replace it in two years anyway, right? I mean, you know, get to one grade and you're like, yeah, I think I need five.
AUDIO RECORDING: Is that today?
AUDIO RECORDING: First?
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. You want everything, so.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right. Real estate's a great — it's one of those things.
AUDIO RECORDING: Guys.
AUDIO RECORDING: Learning as I go. I mean, I'm thinking, like, I call him and I choose, you know, my research and stuff about things, and then I'm like, I'll try to ask advice too, you know, like coming from somebody else's point of view. Like, okay, so, like, if somebody was to offer this different amount of money, like, you know, I started looking at the listings, I started looking at, like, possible scenarios or locations somebody could be at, and then, you know, I'm hopefully, I believe it's that amount in that location. And it's like, it's hard. It's not an amount that, like, somebody would just put up, like, you know, like, you can read, like, million dollar houses that we have. Yeah, like, it would have been more so. Yeah, I just don't want any falls, like, you know, so it'll waste my time. It's like, if it was, if the person was very interested about it and knew, like, a lot about the property, right, it would have been a totally different story. It would have been a done deal, and, like, things would have been signed, and you know, it would have been, it would have been.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's one or two scenarios, which that's what I'm trying to figure out right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Because I'm still new, you know, I'm still trying to figure out how.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's what I've been using, because that property came with the full list.
AUDIO RECORDING: With all the information, or did you get all of that stuff in MLS?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, you get all the information and the demographics of everything. But then again, you can have a listing everywhere — everything's accessible.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I mean, it came in, it came in everything, but yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Recording the property, and then we'll go from there.
AUDIO RECORDING: To be very honest with you, I'm not very interested.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, but then it's like, it's stuck either in a situation where it's like, it defaults as a patent.
AUDIO RECORDING: It could be one of two things. This is what happens, is sometimes somebody is going to keep increasing the rent.
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly. And then what happens is they tell you, I want to pay this for the rental property.
AUDIO RECORDING: Sometimes that's not the case. That's for the client.
AUDIO RECORDING: Then, you know, that's what I'm saying. There's always false leads.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, I don't really need it, and it's like you put on all these levels for nothing.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, I think, I think it's one of, it's without a question, it's one kind of in there.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, let's say even they move out, let's say they take a little vacation.
AUDIO RECORDING: Next thing you know, they moved in and it's like, hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: Can you clarify first? That's why I do all the background checks and everything, make sure, like, a person really does want it before I even go forth with, you know, trying to look for properties around. Or else I'm just going around and around for nothing.
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, that's honestly, that's why these things also are done.
AUDIO RECORDING: Say you're going to do something.
AUDIO RECORDING: You're buying a building for $10 million. You don't show up to close and you go, hey, I decided I'm going to give you $1 million.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: And that's it.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, you just don't want it. I mean, it's just me to go home and I'll say, what? And I have to find out if there's war to the disease.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I'll find out more.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's a big thing. I don't want anybody to just take advantage of me, especially on you over here.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, that one goes on for a few more minutes, but I wanted to ask you a couple questions about the statement that Ms. Magbanua made about making a couple of phone calls last night to find out if this was a good lead.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Had anyone called the undercover number at that time?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, they have not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And regarding the property in Miramar and how people are pains in the ass in Miramar, where is the FBI office located in South Florida?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's in Miramar.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what region does that office cover?
PATRICK SANFORD: It covers the entire South—
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I wanted to skip ahead a little bit to April 25th, if we could.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was there an additional effort to try to tickle the wire or do some law enforcement intervention that could generate more chatter on the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was a letter that we sent to the Adelson residence.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Recognize 84?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How do you recognize it?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's the letter that we had sent to the residence through the mail.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And this was the next bump or tickling of the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At this time I'd move the evidence into State's 84.
JUDGE WHEELER: Any objection?
MR. DECOSTE: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: Be admitted as State's Exhibit 84.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May I publish it?
JUDGE WHEELER: You may.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Slide it down a little bit. It's a reflection from the overhead lights.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there were.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So do you know when this letter was sent?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was sent on April—
PATRICK SANFORD: —24th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And when do we first hear acknowledgment on the wire that the thing has been received?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry, I believe — can I check my notes on that date?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sure.
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry, the letter was sent on April 23rd.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and when do we hear information on the wire to suggest it's been received? On April 25th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Up until this point — the call that we're about to hear — has anybody called the undercover number yet?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it is not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Has anyone called to report anything that's happened so far to the police?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If we could publish call—
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm sorry, Your Honor, I skipped call K. We're going to be publishing call K next.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, K.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So from this call, it appears there's a meeting planned. Was there a meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Where was the meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was actually at a restaurant back behind. It started out with Charlie meeting his parents at the Icon.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Tell us about that. Was that surveilled at all?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That initial meeting.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At the Icon?
PATRICK SANFORD: At the Icon.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is that the building where his parents lived, Donna and Harvey?
PATRICK SANFORD: That is. That's where they — yes.
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it was not surveilled at that point.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and can you kind of explain to us what the issues are with surveilling some of these meetings, if they don't give you much notice?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, if we don't get much notice, Miami's a big place.
PATRICK SANFORD: Like she said on the phone, it's a long way from where she lives to get down to South Beach. And traffic and everything — sometimes it can take like an hour for us to be able to get to a location that we don't know they're at until they're almost there. It's very difficult for us. Plus, in the Icon they had security and it was a secure building, so it's hard to get inside.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. No recordings from the Icon?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what about this meeting between the defendant and Charlie Adelson that they're working on in the call we just heard? Any surveillance there?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And she mentions calling him on the WhatsApp. Do you have any records to tell the jury whether or not there were further calls on the WhatsApp or not?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, we do not. We're not able to obtain the WhatsApp calls.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And so I want to go to the next day, which is gonna take us to April 26, 2016. What is call M? Okay, so let's go to L. L occurs after the meeting between the defendant and Charlie, is that correct? Or is it before?
PATRICK SANFORD: I thought we just heard — this is before.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That was — okay. Okay, so we do have one more call that occurs prior to that meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. This is where she's trying to find where he is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, I'm sorry. Let's go ahead and hear L. Actually, let's skip L.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: L, they're trying to meet up.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, they do meet up. We don't surveil it.
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct, we couldn't get to them.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so then we can go to the next day, which is going to be call M. What are we hearing in call M?
PATRICK SANFORD: We're hearing a call from Sigfredo Garcia to, uh, Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And this is going to be April 26th, at what time?
PATRICK SANFORD: This is the following day, April 26th at 9:48 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, let's publish call M please.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to talk to you at all.
AUDIO RECORDING: If you don't want to do it, you can make sure my name is on your friendship.
AUDIO RECORDING: Of course. Just don't bother me.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm fine.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I just need to talk to you, though.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right?
AUDIO RECORDING: I just need to talk to you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Not the call.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Did that call get minimized at that point?
PATRICK SANFORD: Um, I don't recall it being minimized then.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. How close in time is the call that we just heard to the meeting between the defendant and Charlie Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: I guess it was —
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was it the day before?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was the day before.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right. And we heard a previous call between the defendant and Sigfredo Garcia where they seem to be arguing, you know what — you call him "referencing"?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did they — is there any evidence from your investigation that they had actually split ways between the time of that argument and where we are now, which is April 26th?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I believe Ms. Magbanua was not staying at the residence with Mr. Garcia at that point.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And are you able, during a wire intercept, to receive or intercept the text messaging that's sent in real time?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we are.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And was there a text message which we've labeled as N, as our next item on the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who is that message to and from?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's from Katherine Magbanua to Sigfredo Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At what time of day?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was at 9:52 a.m. on the 26th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So is that shortly after the call that we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, if we could display text N, please.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So this is Katherine Magbanua to Sigfredo Garcia, is that right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe this is the next text.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: This is — oh, all right, so go back to N real quick and do the enlarging. Well, just worried people can't read it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so this is defendant to Garcia, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. "Need to talk to you about something else." And then is there a response?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what time does the response occur?
PATRICK SANFORD: Approximately six minutes later — five or six minutes later.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, let's go to text O.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And that's the content there, underneath where it says "text"?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and this is Garcia's response to Magbanua?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And then the next item we have is call P.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Who are the parties in that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: This is from Katherine Magbanua to Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How close in time — like, where are we in time now?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's the same day as those texts. This is the day after the meeting at the Icon and Monty's. It's 4:33 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I don't think you said Monty's before. That's where the defendant and Charlie met, when we heard that call where he was going to get in the car and go to wherever she was?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right, so this call that we're about to hear is what time of day?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's at 4:33 p.m. — afternoon.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, may we publish call P, please?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, what's going on? Well, you know, I don't know what — for some reason, I know you were like telling me something about for this line, but I'm not an expert with the numbers, and I'm calling both numbers but nobody's picking up, so I can't figure it out. Because — or else, like, it sounds like a really good client if they're gonna rent the place. I actually have — I actually have the number at home. Okay, that's kind of like — I need it. Well, I thought — I wish — when I tried to remember it, I just couldn't.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to be home in probably two hours and I can give you the number then.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hopefully they haven't looked at other properties yet.
AUDIO RECORDING: There's no way I don't need to get the numbers from you before I get out of work?
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, let me do this. Let me see if I can get the number. I got the number at home in my desk. Let's see — the number may be some other place.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In this call, Magbanua indicating that she's calling both numbers — has anyone called the undercover number yet?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not at this point.
JUDGE WHEELER: Ms. Cappleman, this will be the last one before a break.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. The children just called me asking for it because they thought they remembered it, but they remembered it wrong.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I'm going to have to get it. Okay, I've got the number at my house, so don't worry about it.
AUDIO RECORDING: You didn't write the number down anywhere?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I gave you the number.
AUDIO RECORDING: I didn't know — I thought you gave me the number or not. I did. All right, because they're calling me now for the number, and I'll get it done in a few hours.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay, we'll take our morning break now, and so we'll give you about 15 minutes and the deputy will take you back to the jury room.
MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, can we come sidebar?
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, please be seated. The jury is out of the courtroom. The door is closed. This is in regards to a cameraman?
MR. DECOSTE: If we can go sidebar, please.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, we're in recess for 15 minutes, and you may step down at any time.
PATRICK SANFORD: Thank you.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay, we're ready for the jury. Let's bring the jury in, please.
JUDGE WHEELER: Please be seated.
JUDGE WHEELER: We're ready to proceed, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, I'm going to take you back to April 26th, and we were having some number confusion.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is P, Q, R, N, S all in pretty close proximity to each other time-wise, all within the same hour?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so if we could go ahead and publish call R then.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Headphones, everybody.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I just called. They don't have the number either.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's at home. And I'm not going to be able to get it to you until I get home.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's what I was like. Take it. Write the number down. I know. But I'm so good at, like, number writing and shit. You know? Like, I do this all day.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, I have, like, a thousand numbers on my phone. Like, I have, like, a thousand numbers on my phone. And then now when somebody calls me back, I don't always know who it is because I might have seen every person's bumper.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, I don't have a landline in my job. I have to use my cell phone. That's why you've got to put in your contact list. You don't need a contact.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I can't do that. There's going to be a bunch of people calling my phone. They're like, this is mine, but I don't even want to, like... There was this one day they wanted to see a property, and then they say, oh no, it's okay because the word was somebody else.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm in Miami Lakes right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: In one second. Come on, Bayage, I'm up here. Remember, after breakfast. The only reason I remember this is being dead.
AUDIO RECORDING: On cover, I—
AUDIO RECORDING: Had to keep me a little. Okay, beautiful. Thank you. Get out of here before traffic. All right. Thank you. Let's—
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's go straight to our next call, Call S, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello, how are you? I don't have to tell—
AUDIO RECORDING: You one of the properties? Yeah, I believe it's a 305. Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And in this call, is Katherine Magbanua accurately relaying the undercover number to Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And again, up to this point, has anyone called the undercover number?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not at this time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Now we go to 4/27. 4/27, Call T. What is Call T?
PATRICK SANFORD: This is, uh, the following day where Charlie — Charlie Adelson's calling his mother, Donna Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can we go ahead and publish that call, please?
AUDIO RECORDING: At the end of the day, I want to thank you for your service. Very sweet.
AUDIO RECORDING: Uh, I think he's — I think he just doesn't feel like going. Yeah, yeah. It's — are you busy, so upset about everything? Or—
AUDIO RECORDING: No, maybe.
AUDIO RECORDING: You haven't, you know, your time. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Susan.
AUDIO RECORDING: By the way, everything else is on.
AUDIO RECORDING: No one picked up the truck.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, no.
AUDIO RECORDING: I did not ask for one. Can we get a statement?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes, if I have something to do to worry about.
AUDIO RECORDING: You never... Let me just tell you something. You never eat food. No, that's not true.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I got laundry.
AUDIO RECORDING: The administrative professionals' day, which I didn't realize until the last minute, I had to go run out.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then I got a big, big chalazion on my eye last night, and so I'm going to go up to CVS.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm trying. I'm really trying not to troll. I'm really trying not to. But I'm just saying, you have nothing, literally nothing to worry about. Someone's fishing and someone wants to try to make some money. That will never amount to anything. So someone can try and put something, you know, throw a fish in one mouth and say, hey, you know, I really don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: I got you, too.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know what I mean? Like, you say you know, you know, you know.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: There's a few more minutes of that, but I'm going to move on to what occurs after this call. Is there another bump or another tickling of the wire that occurs?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What is that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Um, the UC called the Adelson Institute, um, asking for Donna Adelson and left a message.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Judge, at this time I'd ask to publish State's 128.
AUDIO RECORDING: Good morning. Thank you for calling.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes, good morning. May I speak to Donna, Mrs. Donna Adelson?
AUDIO RECORDING: May I let her know who's calling?
AUDIO RECORDING: Sammy.
AUDIO RECORDING: Sammy from?
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, I met her last week.
AUDIO RECORDING: You met her last week and you gave her some paperwork regarding?
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, she knows what it's about. It's important paperwork.
AUDIO RECORDING: And your name is Sammy?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes. Yes. Do you have another phone number?
AUDIO RECORDING: I can maybe give you a call back.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I'll find out immediately what she thinks about the paperwork.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: After the bump, is there a call from Charlie to Donna?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And what date are we on now?
PATRICK SANFORD: This is on April the 28th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What time of day?
PATRICK SANFORD: Approximately 9:42 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. If we could publish Call U, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Erica. called me this morning.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, how are you?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, are you in an office?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no, I'm driving.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, Erica called me this morning and she says, I don't know if it's a sales call or what, but somebody called this morning. He said his name was Sammy and he gave you some very important papers last week and he hasn't heard from you. If you want to, you call me back, and here's the number.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, once you verify the number, whether it's the same or the correct number that I told you about.
AUDIO RECORDING: Your sales call — just hit *67 before you call the number and then they won't know the number you're calling from.
AUDIO RECORDING: What's your suggestion?
AUDIO RECORDING: The odd thing is this — is that that's the same number you gave me.
AUDIO RECORDING: I gave you the number. I never kept it. You kept it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Tell me what the number was.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, it's the same number.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What does Charlie Adelson do after learning of this information — that there's been another tickling of the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: Um, he tries to call, uh, Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was he successful in reaching the defendant?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not at first.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did he leave a voicemail?
PATRICK SANFORD: He did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Is that captured in what we're calling Call V?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And are there any more attempts by Charlie Adelson to reach the defendant before we actually get another call?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, I believe there's about four different attempts by Mr. Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And then we get a call back to Charlie from the defendant?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is that Call W?
PATRICK SANFORD: It is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, tell us the date and time of this call, please.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/28 at 10:43 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Publish Call W, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: We call back. That's what it's at.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you still have the number?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, well, obviously it's not a working number. It's like an email number.
AUDIO RECORDING: Nobody's calling you.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's like — get that number that's off of the thing, off of the freaking caller ID.
AUDIO RECORDING: At the office?
AUDIO RECORDING: It's like a fucking bullshit game.
AUDIO RECORDING: They're not coming out on foot. They're not writing letters and they're not calling the office because they have nothing better to do.
AUDIO RECORDING: because I called that number myself.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, well, let's — let's call that number again.
AUDIO RECORDING: Another number and left a message.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, well, I — I'm trying to get whoever's threatening your family and helping you guys out, and trying to help you guys out. But it's like if they don't pick up — like, what? I understand. I understand that they fucking called this morning. This is three times. You get the number.
AUDIO RECORDING: You have the number.
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, can you find out?
AUDIO RECORDING: It's either somebody is pulling your bone, somebody is just harassing you, or somebody is trying to get something out of you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Find out who the fuck it is, because the other phone call is going to be the FBI.
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm telling you — and then when they do catch the person, they're going to be asking lots of questions about who Katie is. We already spoke about this. It's like not even like a fucking joke anymore. It's not a fucking joke, Katie.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's not.
AUDIO RECORDING: Somebody's harassing you guys. Somebody's harassing everyone.
AUDIO RECORDING: And it's like, I don't have bullshit and fucking somebody's trying to fucking piss on some bullshit.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, it's getting aggravating.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, it is.
AUDIO RECORDING: All I'm saying is find out who the fuck it is, and tell me who you have to talk to.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I'm gonna handle this shit myself, bro, because it's some fucking bullshit.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm gonna handle it my motherfucking self.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, shame, I got a fucking number, so you fucking — if, if Erica wants to come back, then I'll go and give the right number. Okay, I'll have your fucking, whatever fucking shit, taken care of, okay, because you fucking — that's credit, bro. I'm getting irate with this shit already.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's either FBI or fucking whatever it is, because I don't fucking get shit.
AUDIO RECORDING: Erica will find out, I'll pay you. And don't even give a wrong number, get the fucking number and your fucking card because I'm gonna call them.
AUDIO RECORDING: Fucking — thanks to me, I didn't even fucking give a shit about all these fucking bullshit shit, whatever shit, anymore. Okay, I'm pissed the fuck off. Either you go to the cops or we go to the cops, or find out — we'll find out who the fuck this is, because this person evidently knows you and knows your family, and they don't — I mean, they don't like that. And you don't — you don't think that I — fucking scared the shit out of me. Like somebody's fucking saying my name out loud.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, Katie, someone's messing with me.
AUDIO RECORDING: Someone's messing with me.
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: So what I'm saying is, find out —
AUDIO RECORDING: What's the number of words?
AUDIO RECORDING: Bottom line.
AUDIO RECORDING: That shit does not work. Katie, call them. Find out who the fuck it is now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Trust me on this.
AUDIO RECORDING: Find out who the fuck it is at all.
AUDIO RECORDING: Look at me. I get the number. Something's wrong with this case because...
AUDIO RECORDING: I already did.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you have any effect with it? Do you have the number I gave you the other day?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So, we heard repeatedly on air the defendant representing to Charlie Adelson that she had called that number, called that number personally, and that it was a non-working number.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Had she called that number...
JUDGE WHEELER: What's your objection?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she had not called that number.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was it in fact a working number?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: There was a discussion on there of going to the cops — "I'm going to the cops. No, I'm going to the cops." Did anybody go to the cops?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, is there another call between these two within the hour?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, is that Call X?
PATRICK SANFORD: It is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, let's publish Call X, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, you haven't heard anything.
AUDIO RECORDING: You haven't heard anything.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, let me do that and see where we are.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At this point, do we have somebody call the undercover number?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Who calls it?
PATRICK SANFORD: Charlie Adelson calls the undercover number.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is that 4/28 at 11:33 a.m.?
PATRICK SANFORD: That sounds right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, let's publish State's Exhibit 134 at this time, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Who's this?
AUDIO RECORDING: Who's this?
AUDIO RECORDING: His family has not been taken care of. I talked to the dentist. "Doctor, who are you calling me? Who, who, who are you?"
AUDIO RECORDING: I gave the number to a lady.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you know Papa?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know if you know Katie.
AUDIO RECORDING: Taking care of up north.
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't? Well, this has gone away, my friend. Because let me tell you something.
AUDIO RECORDING: I was at the ground with the doctor, and he told me the whole story.
AUDIO RECORDING: He told me, "I'm going to take care of you." Nobody's been taking care of him.
AUDIO RECORDING: Nobody's taking care of his family. Taking care of Katie and Duca, she knows what I'm talking about.
AUDIO RECORDING: No more fucking around, man. No more fucking around. This ain't going away.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's what we — you guys need to do the right thing without him.
AUDIO RECORDING: He needs to be taking care of his family. He needs to be taking care of his, like, Katie and Duca.
AUDIO RECORDING: I never met — met with Duca, but let me call you back, okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: That's bullshit, man. You know this lady.
AUDIO RECORDING: Take care, take care of that dude just like you take care of Katie and Duca, man.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The first person that Charlie Adelson calls after making this contact with the undercover agent?
PATRICK SANFORD: He talks to Katie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does he make some unanswered calls first to Katie before he actually talks to her?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, that's what it is. He attempts to call Katie and she calls him back.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, does he attempt to —
MR. DECOSTE: Hold on a second.
MR. DECOSTE: If the witness is looking down at a list right now, can we get a copy of whatever he's looking at?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You're refreshing your recollection?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, sir.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what do you have there?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's the call list. The call list that's written down with the letters on it.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay, and has that been provided to the defense?
JUDGE WHEELER: Is it the exhibit list or what, or is it the call list — let's make sure what it is, and let's make sure —
MR. DECOSTE: I just want to have on the record when he's refreshing himself.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, so you're okay just on the record refreshing recollection, or do you want a copy of it?
MR. DECOSTE: Yeah, we want a copy of this.
JUDGE WHEELER: Has it been provided — has that been provided previously?
MR. DECOSTE: That also has handwritten notes on it all.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, let's just make it clear when he's refreshing his recollection so that it's clear on the record, okay?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So you were going to refresh your recollection with your notes as to whether there were multiple unanswered calls after Charlie calls the undercover to Katherine Magbanua, the defendant in this case. That's correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And do we know how many?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall how many. More than one, I believe. Yes, there was more than one.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And eventually she calls him back?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, she does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And can you check your notes and give us the date and time of when she calls him back?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I'll check my notes. And she calls him back at 12:41 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So about an hour, a little better than an hour after the call we just heard, correct?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's publish Call Y, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Can like start assignments and then somebody pick up and sound like, you know. And...
AUDIO RECORDING: I said, I'm returning a call. He said, I had that call.
AUDIO RECORDING: Someone did a really big favor for you and was there for you.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I was with him in Broward, with him down in Broward.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he hasn't been taken care of. His family hasn't been taken care of. He's like, it's fucking bullshit.
AUDIO RECORDING: He's like, you know, as he's letting him talk, as he's talking, I'm hearing a little bit of a New York...
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, as he's trying to, you know, when he picked up the phone, he didn't sound like a tough guy when he picked up the phone. But it was like, as he was talking to me, he was like, listen, because I know you guys took care of and you're taking care of, taking care of their family, that he needs to be taken care of. And he's done a big favor to you. And I go, sir, to Katie and Duca, we're taking care of their family. I go, no money's been given. I said, I don't even know who these people are.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he's like, well, listen, man, this shit's not fucking going away.
AUDIO RECORDING: You better fucking do the right thing. He's like, it's not going away.
AUDIO RECORDING: He may have said a bad word, he may have cursed, but he left it to be... it's not going away.
AUDIO RECORDING: Whatever his name is, family out, the waiter helping out, Katie and Duca, talking about going away.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, he told me he was, and I was being very polite to him, like, hold on a second, give me two minutes and I'll be right there.
AUDIO RECORDING: I was being really polite to him. He said, I know him from Broward. He says, I know him from Broward.
AUDIO RECORDING: Or I saw him down in Broward.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I don't know if like this guy that they're talking about was incarcerated in Broward.
AUDIO RECORDING: Whatever, the guy A referenced B, referenced Katie and Duca. So the same name again.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, so your name and some other guy's name, I don't even fucking know.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, so he was saying, so talk to me and help out, which on the weekend, take care of you. Right, exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: But that's, I do, I can't help you out. You fucking, there's a money on the weekend, but you go up.
AUDIO RECORDING: And this is the three of my number you called? The 305s? Yup.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he left it. And it rang a long time?
AUDIO RECORDING: And he left it. That's a long time. Yeah, no, I was on the phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: He was listening. I gave that paper to a lady. I'm trying to sit here, trying to find out what's going on.
AUDIO RECORDING: This person is on the assumption that I'm helping. But he said they're a friend in Broward, or he said they're a brother from Broward? He said he was just, he said he was this guy, this guy who was having help. He told my mom he was incarcerated, his brother.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he's saying that he has not been paid, and his family has not been taken care of, and this is not going away. And, like, I mean, I get carried, you know. Like, you've gotten my offer, you've worked. Yeah, but you can't be, like, freaking people starting new and mentioning me, you know what I mean? No. And he sounded, honestly, he didn't sound Latin.
AUDIO RECORDING: He sounded like a, just, you know, there's a little bit of a New York accent to his.
AUDIO RECORDING: He didn't try to be at all, he did not try to be at all. He just let me know the same thing. He said, this is not going away.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he, and he's like, you need to take care of him. You're the right thing. He was there for you.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I'm like, I go, I don't know. He goes, I don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: I said, but I said, I said, let me call you back later.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's how I left it with him. I said, who those guys are you talking about?
AUDIO RECORDING: But let me give you a call back later, okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: He's like, okay, do the right thing.
AUDIO RECORDING: It sounded like a fucking you mean he didn't know?
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly. Just move on to the other place, you know, like how did, how did, like the conversation start?
AUDIO RECORDING: He goes, who is this? He goes, hello? I go, hi, I'm returning a phone call.
AUDIO RECORDING: He goes, what is this in reference to? That's the exact word?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yep, what is this in reference to? Reference? Wow, that's an educated word.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no, we were both spoken when my mom met him. I said, what is this in reference to?
AUDIO RECORDING: So I said, I'm returning the call that Simon...
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm returning the message that Simon had left this morning.
AUDIO RECORDING: That was the name, Simon? Yeah, that was the name when he called up my office and spoke to Eric and said, listen, Neil said last week, Simon, returning the message from Simon, your family, the family, yeah, yeah, money. You can't, you can't reference like we're giving all this money to referencing that...
AUDIO RECORDING: Totally. I'm giving money to you and someone, dude, and your family. I don't know these people, never met him. It's really interesting.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes, he's saying he's his brother, he's from Broward. He said he's, he said he referenced something that was with him in Broward, so...
AUDIO RECORDING: This guy incarcerated in Broward County is from Broward. I don't know who these people are, but I don't know what the reference is for a Tato and your family, and I don't know who the dudes are that you're with, or if they're just making up names, or if I feel — should I call the FBI and say, you know what, let's play fun with that?
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I don't — do you know what I'm saying?
AUDIO RECORDING: He never said he was going to hurt. I just wanted him to keep talking, that's why I wanted him to keep talking. Because he got a feeling of who the person is? Yeah, because he wanted to know who I was.
AUDIO RECORDING: When he left, he had not been paid. His family hadn't been paid.
AUDIO RECORDING: Long, and he goes to me, "Because this ain't going away." He's like, "Do the right thing, take care, and he helps you out." I'm like, "I don't know — I don't know him, I don't like him." I think it could be — it could be a patient. I think you're gonna see — you in two seconds, last name. Who?
AUDIO RECORDING: — lives. Okay. Where does he work?
AUDIO RECORDING: Right. That's because there's a number calling in. And that was in the affidavit.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Let me — so. He might not listen. Don't worry. He's not reading me all of this. But I will call that number.
AUDIO RECORDING: They're picking it up. Whether you want to call it over, or if you don't, friend, that you convinced him to tell someone, like —
AUDIO RECORDING: 357-12-5570.
AUDIO RECORDING: Correct? Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: 357-12-5570.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. They need to know that. I'm not paying anything. The only thing I wanted to do is —
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you know what kind of vacation I could get with that line?
AUDIO RECORDING: I need a vacation.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'll talk to you later. Call me later.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So, obviously we have the undercover name morphing from Sammy to Simon. Nobody ever said Simon, did they?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Counsel is testifying. Move to strike.
JUDGE WHEELER: Let's put it in the form of a question.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did anybody ever say Simon?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did the undercover ever represent himself as Simon?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he said Sammy.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And Charlie Adelson indicates on this call that he doesn't know who Tuto is. Who is Tuto?
MR. DECOSTE: Same objection.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Charlie Adelson says on this call that he doesn't know who Tuto is. Who is Tuto?
PATRICK SANFORD: Tuto is the nickname for Sigfredo Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And Katherine Magbanua knows that.
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Does she enlighten him as to who Tuto is?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Burden shifting.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does Katherine Magbanua enlighten Charlie Adelson as to the fact that Tuto is Sigfredo Garcia, her children's father?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she doesn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What about Tato? Who is Tato?
PATRICK SANFORD: Tato is Luis Rivera. That is his nickname.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And does Katie know who Tato is?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, she does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And does she advise Charlie Adelson that she knows there's a Tato named Luis Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she doesn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Who's the childhood friend of her kid's father?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And a friend of hers as well?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. She says at the end of the call that she's going to call that number, and we reiterate the number again. Does she ever call the number?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. I want to go to what we've labeled as Z.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: This is a text message.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Where in time is this text message relative to the call we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Can I refer to my notes?
JUDGE WHEELER: You may.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Call Z.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, sir. It is a text message from Katie — Katherine Magbanua — to Sigfredo Garcia on the same day at approximately 12:57 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so after the call we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, approximately maybe seven minutes — five, seven minutes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, could we publish the contents of text Z, please.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And does Katherine Magbanua wait for Sigfredo Garcia to call her back, or does she begin calling him?
PATRICK SANFORD: She begins calling him, I believe. I have to refer to my notes, though.
JUDGE WHEELER: You may.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there's a call from Katie to Sigfredo.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and that's about twenty minutes after the text. That's at 1:22 p.m. Okay, could we publish call AA, please.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Started at the fifty-two-second point.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, you busy?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes. Are you woke up? Yes. Eating a sandwich? Oh my god. Am I freaking eating a sandwich again?
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, a sandwich. I have a sandwich.
AUDIO RECORDING: Better than the mustard.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, ew. Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I have like a migraine right now. I walked in and there's like a meeting outside, there's like a meeting outside, I guess they have meetings on Thursdays, and then I have my own meeting in the conference room.
AUDIO RECORDING: Ay, ay, ay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, I have a lot more information for you.
AUDIO RECORDING: And when I got a call this morning, like, I couldn't even take it, because I had to step out of my meeting, because I just heard about it, and I was like, because I got a call back, and I was like, so, hold on.
AUDIO RECORDING: Give me one second, I want my blog to come out.
AUDIO RECORDING: I was gonna tell you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, so this person contacted the office.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Whatever, supposedly he said his name is Simon.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: Contacted the office saying, oh, whatever, I have given a paper to this person. They're obviously doing their, whatever they're doing, they're threatening me, and like, they're very, very close to reporting her name, whatever it is. We're getting pissed because my name's involved, and it gets better. But I'm like, you know what, of course you just tell me everything on the phone right now, because I don't have time, I'm fucking working. Like, what, what is it? Like, I want to handle this, and I want to handle this like right now. So, um, it's okay to call the office. I was like, look, I tried to contact that number, it's like not a working number. They're like, I was like, why don't you go ahead and start to decide and go call that freaking number? And then, whatever, that person did, they go, okay, I'm returning a phone call. And then the person goes, who are you? And they're like, doesn't matter, I'm returning a phone call regarding something of a paper or whatever. And they're like, okay, well, we know and been helping me out. Um, they said my name and your name and I, um —
AUDIO RECORDING: yes, just create our name. Um, they even come from the mouth, and he's like, I don't even know what they're talking about, I don't even know, I don't, I don't even know if you're the right person to talk about. For all I know, it could be another KB or whatever. And I was like, okay. They're like, oh, well, they're a brother, they're a brother of, um, of this other person that's supposedly incarcerated, and they're a brother of them, and they know him from, from, from Broward. I don't know if they were together in Broward and he got out or whatever the case was, and he's like, but this family needs help, do the right thing, like they decided, like, we know for a fact that you're helping. I'm like, helping who out? Yeah, I worked for you before, like, that's it.
AUDIO RECORDING: I was like, that's not helping me out, that's me working for you. And I was like, I don't know what they're talking about.
AUDIO RECORDING: So, but they said, do the right thing. His name is supposedly Hyman.
AUDIO RECORDING: They're a brother of a person, doesn't have a name, and they said that name.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I was like, no, this needs to stop. Like, this needs to stop.
AUDIO RECORDING: Because somebody's harassing me, somebody's harassing your family, and they're putting my name, and it's not me, and that's what other person's doing.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's getting too detailed. It's somebody that's, you know, for sure.
AUDIO RECORDING: He said that the person had, like, he's just trying to get her to talk more.
AUDIO RECORDING: He's like, the person has, like, kind of maybe a New York accent.
AUDIO RECORDING: He, some of the words was a little bit, you know, like he wasn't threatening at all. He was just saying, you need, it's time for you to help out this person and their family, because he needs it. Because we know they hear what's happening — personal family, that's all — and his family, because they need it. And —
AUDIO RECORDING: and then before that he goes, I know what the hell you're talking about. And it first goes, well, do the right thing, you tell them. Oh, listen, you guys keep asking me where are cops, that's what I thought. I was like, why don't you just say that? Oh, no, the person said this is not gonna end, do the right thing. I didn't really get information. Where — what do you want me to do? Get the number. Get the phone number. I don't know, because you've given me a lot of numbers.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no, no.
AUDIO RECORDING: 305-712-6570. Fake it though.
AUDIO RECORDING: Because I was getting tired of it. I don't know what's happening or whatever.
AUDIO RECORDING: 712-6570.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no, no.
AUDIO RECORDING: 305-712-6570.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's not what I said. What the fuck this is?
AUDIO RECORDING: It needs to stop.
AUDIO RECORDING: There's obviously no — somebody. They're putting my name. They're putting your name. They're putting — All right. All right. All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does the defendant say the name Charlie or Charlie Adelson to Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not at that time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: She calls him "that person"?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: She indicates, "I worked for you before," talking about she worked for Charlie Adelson before.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was Katherine Magbanua still getting paychecks from the Adelson Institute as of the time this call was made?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And there's a lot of talk about Broward and the fact that someone's in Broward. Was Luis Rivera incarcerated in Broward at this time?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe he was at that time, yes, correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. All right, our next call is BB.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you tell us about that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'll refer to my notes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You may.
PATRICK SANFORD: BB is a call from Sigfredo Garcia to Katherine Magbanua on the same date at 1:46 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May we publish BB, please?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Don't talk to my phone and then talk to the other side.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I mean, or block it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Don't look for an office. It's your office. You know what I mean?
AUDIO RECORDING: Don't look for your phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I'm not calling you from my office. I'm calling from my phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: Your fucking phone is impossible.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, but sometimes it's possible.
AUDIO RECORDING: Use some TV. Use a friend's phone. Put three of these on.
AUDIO RECORDING: What?
AUDIO RECORDING: Not yours.
AUDIO RECORDING: Affirm.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If we can just go straight to CC, please. Agent Sanford, is this call 428 at 2:09 p.m.?
PATRICK SANFORD: May I refer to my notes?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You may.
PATRICK SANFORD: This is CC, or your call number 1400. Yeah, 428 at 2:09 p.m., yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish CC, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: 3 0-5-7-1-2-6-5-7-0. Show us your number, right?
AUDIO RECORDING: Say it one more time. 3-0-5. 7-1-2-6-5-7-0. I'm talking Puerto Rican.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes. She said, go to your booth, or I'm busy, or that's what she called me back.
AUDIO RECORDING: Back, you mean, back?
AUDIO RECORDING: Back.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's what I'm saying.
AUDIO RECORDING: You all know that I'm pretending to be a stupid so that we can think you're a stupid.
AUDIO RECORDING: New York and...
AUDIO RECORDING: No, they're insane.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Garcia is reporting this answering machine. Was there an answering machine outgoing greeting on our undercover number?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And did Garcia call the number and get the answering machine?
PATRICK SANFORD: There was a call to the voicemail, that's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And did he ever actually talk to the undercover?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it went to voicemail.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was that the only time Garcia ever called?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so he got this voicemail. Was he accurately relaying the nature of the outgoing greeting on the undercover?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I believe so. It was in Spanish, but yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and I can't remember if I asked you — did he leave a message for the undercover?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he did not leave a message.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and in the next call we're about to hear, defendant tells Charlie Adelson that she called the number.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In the next call that we're about to hear, defendant tells Charlie Adelson that she called the number, not that she had Garcia call. Did she ever call the number?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And in all of these calls, does she ever say Garcia's name to Charlie?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Or Charlie's name to Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's publish DD, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know how to block a call.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I did that.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'll be there in one minute.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: Uh Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't want to play fucking games. You can fuck off already.
AUDIO RECORDING: Can you get out?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I would...
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't want to work with all these friends of mine? I'm going to talk on everybody's fucking bloody phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: And fucking leaving a message on everybody's fucking phone. For everybody's phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'll play games, or I'll play games.
AUDIO RECORDING: And they called the only thought in my head that one day maybe you could find it out or i may call the person back to the phone first it wasn't that get him and it was not a meeting at her family and some other guy that's maybe yeah the money money didn't even Yeah, of course. You're in the name, and then I walk over to that person and I'm not paying.
AUDIO RECORDING: And this guy needs your help, and it's not right.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, who are you?
AUDIO RECORDING: Then you have to get in. You always use that note.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's the next conversation I have.
AUDIO RECORDING: If it comes to it, it's money. If someone owes money, you give me a name.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: Who are you talking to?
AUDIO RECORDING: Person is trying to fucking say shit or do whatever it is to your family, starting to harass your family, like it's getting me mad.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, I don't know. I don't know why they keep...
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't... That's why it's like, who are you? Number one, okay, you need something more than that. What's your real name? What's your address?
AUDIO RECORDING: Who do you have a problem with?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, who in my family owes you money? And don't say the last name, because I'm going to go to that person and tell them, and then I'm going to tell them to go pay me.
AUDIO RECORDING: But you haven't told me who to go talk to. Not like, oh, that's like saying someone with the last name Rodriguez.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, someone with the last name Rodriguez.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's why I want you to be the fucking first name. And I won't go talk to who's behind it. I'm going to fucking find out.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to talk to my brother. I'll turn him in and get a reward money.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I'm saying, like, just leave a name of who owes money.
AUDIO RECORDING: And this guy said he was up in Broward and knew everything that went on.
AUDIO RECORDING: I was up with him in Broward. That's what I understand.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes, something about Broward. I was up with him in Broward too.
AUDIO RECORDING: But he said he's a family member.
AUDIO RECORDING: He's incarcerated.
AUDIO RECORDING: He said he's this guy's or whatever's father.
AUDIO RECORDING: He said I'm his brother.
AUDIO RECORDING: So he was with him up in Broward when he told me what everything had happened.
AUDIO RECORDING: But was up with him in Broward and knew everything that happened?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know. I don't know if you'd be cool with them visiting the jail or if you would. We need to, we need to, like, fucking get, like, if people just can be fucking Googling shit or whatever.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, and that's, well, exactly. The only reason I'm going to bother them, and I know it doesn't matter, like, you're still harassing my fucking, you start calling their office, the next call is to the FBI.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's not funny.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I agree. I agree with you.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't, I don't want people to get mad when they go to the jail room. I don't even feel like I can tell them that.
AUDIO RECORDING: See, when my genetic media got stolen, I did not, I don't even care who, I don't want to catch the guy that stole my jet ski. Why?
AUDIO RECORDING: It's grand theft. I don't want to do that. Okay, but you know what? If this person keeps fucking saying shit, then they need to start giving information. They need to start saying something instead of saying shit. They need to tell me. They need to tell me.
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, the families have lots of numbers on me, and I will call that person.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm just curious to see who's so interested in your family and what's going on. That's why.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's like that's why you're setting me up. It's like why am I being thrown into something?
AUDIO RECORDING: If anyone talks about you, it's some other guy. I just want to ask, does his name go by T?
AUDIO RECORDING: But whatever the guy's other name is, he said it so quick, I don't know if it's from your name, and then some other guy's name.
AUDIO RECORDING: But I hear you're just saying too much now.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't even know what the fuck you're saying. That's what I'm repeating to you when the guy said it. I know, it's just the first time. That that's the only reason. I don't understand. You're playing repetitive and it just becomes nonsense.
AUDIO RECORDING: The only reason I called you is because Sam didn't go up.
AUDIO RECORDING: Now, you're going to have a fucking decent problem.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I'm going, oh, my God, I am no fucking wrong person.
AUDIO RECORDING: God forgive him that he fucking said the wrong fucking name because now it becomes my business.
AUDIO RECORDING: I need that shit.
AUDIO RECORDING: I fucking picked it up for no reason.
AUDIO RECORDING: You never picked up the package.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm all the way right here. I've got to get the area of my kids. I've got to see. I'm trying to figure out if I can go up later on.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Let me know, but I have a letter in the back.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I got the phone. It's actually going by 7.
AUDIO RECORDING: You can have faith in us.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I forgot. I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you it's not a lot worse anyway.
AUDIO RECORDING: You haven't been getting that review.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Agent Sanford, was the name Tuto or Tato on the outgoing message from the undercover's answering machine?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it was not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. In this call, the defendant indicates that she will personally go to the FBI. Did she personally go to the FBI to report these matters?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, I want to go to the text message, EE.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Could you please reference your notes and advise us when this is and who it's to and who it's from?
PATRICK SANFORD: EE is from Sigfredo Garcia to Katherine Magbanua.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4-28, same day, at 7:39 p.m. And he's indicating he called three times and did not get an answer.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do we know if that's true or not?
PATRICK SANFORD: We only had one call to the undercover number.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And then call FF, what's that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Refer to my notes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You may.
PATRICK SANFORD: FF is a call from Katherine Magbanua to Charlie Adelson on the same date at 7:49 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, let's publish FF, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, what's going on?
AUDIO RECORDING: In Spanish, the host, puto. It could be that voicemail that they have, shut up, what sound does it make?
AUDIO RECORDING: What does he say on the voicemail?
AUDIO RECORDING: Like if you reach puto, he doesn't message that.
AUDIO RECORDING: He could fucking call me and he could stop dragging my phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then I'll keep trying.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: But they won't pick up.
AUDIO RECORDING: Because...
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, that's good.
AUDIO RECORDING: What you're saying and like maybe it's like somebody trying to like be like, you know, and try to be in an apartment or something or whatever.
AUDIO RECORDING: What's, like, going on?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I'm thinking the same.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, people need to trust and then we can't.
AUDIO RECORDING: It was just paper and playing games.
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly, it could be anybody.
AUDIO RECORDING: It could have been another Katie and another Tato.
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's like I'm boiling for it now. Like, you don't understand.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, it's pissing me off. Like, pick up the fucking phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I got you with that. And I just, you know, fucking call it here.
AUDIO RECORDING: Basically, you said, hey, you're messing with my family, and if you don't stop, they're going to have a problem with me, too.
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, listen, if you're going to have a problem with either one of us, or even if, like, if I'm going to make it or not.
AUDIO RECORDING: You're coming up to my fucking mom on the street, and you're sending letters to their house, and you're fucking calling my dad's office. In the office and that was just like that's very much like no and I was like look you need a favor because like talking about he's like
MS. CAPPLEMAN: There's a few more minutes of that call, but I'm going to pause there, Judge. I have about 20 to 25 more minutes. Would this be a good time to take our break?
JUDGE WHEELER: Um, yeah, I think it's probably the appropriate time at this point if you're going to have that much longer. So we'll take our lunch break now. And so we'll give the jury till 1:30 again. No conversations.
JUDGE WHEELER: No, with each other, with anyone else. No internet searches. We'll see everybody back at 1:30 and we'll continue with the testimony at that time. Okay. Thank you.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Please be seated. Jury's out of the courtroom. The door is closed. And so we'll have about 20 minutes or so of direct. And so let's be prepared to go right in the cross. After that, we won't take a break in between that, but we'll take a break later in your cross-examination.
MR. DECOSTE: So, Your Honor, it would be a little bit difficult with the government with a podium over here. I need to set up sort of like I did for Rivera with the table with that hook into the HDMI so that I get the projector.
JUDGE WHEELER: If you need to put a table up here now or whatever, I'm not going to take a break in between, so just make sure that you're prepared to go right in the cross-examination.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay, Your Honor. Allow me to come into the courtroom earlier than then like ten minutes before and I can set up. Sure, in about a half hour I'll come in.
JUDGE WHEELER: Yeah, that's fine. I don't think — accommodations for that for you to get in a little bit earlier and set up, I don't have a problem with that. Okay. Okay. All right, we'll be in recess till 1:30.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. We're back on the record. Anything from counsel before we bring the jury in? Ms. Cappleman?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: Ms. Kawass? Bring in the jury.
JUDGE WHEELER: Please be seated.
JUDGE WHEELER: And we're ready to continue with the testimony.
JUDGE WHEELER: And Ms. Cappleman, you may proceed.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So when we broke, we had just listened to Call FF. And in FF, Magbanua is indicating that a threatening message was left on the answering machine of the undercover. Was a threatening message left on the answering machine of the undercover?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it wasn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. I want to go to the next day, April 29th, 2016. Can you tell us what Call GG is, please?
PATRICK SANFORD: Can I refer to the call log?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You may.
PATRICK SANFORD: GG is — it's Charlie Adelson to Katherine Magbanua at 8:45 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. If we could publish GG, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: There's not any — there's nothing of that sort yet.
AUDIO RECORDING: Someone has to get their asses with it to find out.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, it's not just — it's not...
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, oh no, it's gonna — it's gonna come. Things always come out. Somebody's gonna be fucking someone, they're gonna be running their mouth. Someone will get mad at somebody and start saying, "Hey, you know who this was," and then—
AUDIO RECORDING: But then it seems like you know too much.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. There's a few more minutes of that call and a couple of other calls, but I think I'm going to read the room and move on to our next issue here. I want to try to clear up some questions surrounding the May 24th interview attempt of Katherine Magbanua. Did you participate in that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And we've heard a little bit about that, but there's some confusion about what occurred with this defendant's phone after that interview attempt. Can you explain to the jury what she did with her phone?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did she dump her phone? Did she get a new phone? Did she have a burner phone, or something else?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Leading.
JUDGE WHEELER: No, that's not a leading question. She can ask her in that manner.
PATRICK SANFORD: After the interview attempt, yes. She started turning it on and off, and went and got what we call a burner phone. There was a burner phone purchased, and she began using that instead of her regular phone. For the most part, she still used a regular phone some, but it was turning on and off.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And how did turning it on and off affect or impact your ability to monitor her movements or surveil her?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, the GPS tracking on cell phones like that — it's not actually GPS tracking, it's usually cell tower information, and it doesn't give you an exact pinpoint anyways. So when you turn it off, there's no way to actually ping the phone to see what towers it's hitting off of to be able to triangulate the approximate location.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was she still staying at the same location that she had been prior to the interview attempt?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. After the interview attempt, they left that residence, and she never returned.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So how was it that you were able to locate her for her arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe it was the following day. We were getting intermittent pings, and as I was traveling down there, the TPD tech squad actually got a ping of a shopping center.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The following day after what?
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, sorry. After the interview.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: She was arrested the following day, or you're talking about Garcia's?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry. The next day we were — I'm sorry. I'm referring to the wrong one. Yes, the following day — I'm sorry. Repeat the question.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So after the interview attempts, which occurred on May 24th, you said Ms. Magbanua never returned to the residence she had been living at. How long was she living in some other place unknown to you between the time of the interview attempt and the time of her arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: Several months. We never found exactly where she was living at after that point.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So she was difficult to track effective the interview attempt.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And then I think you were talking about the next day. She was not arrested the next day, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she was not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Do you know when she was arrested?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not until — I believe it was October.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And in October, you said you were having a difficult time tracking her. How were you able to locate her to make the arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: In October?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. We were getting intermittent pings, and one of the pings ended up at a shopping center — a large shopping center with a bunch of businesses.
PATRICK SANFORD: We got in the area of the shopping center. We were riding through it looking for her, and we saw her coming out of a store and going through the parking lot to a vehicle.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was there anything unusual about the way law enforcement approached her, or the use of force in the making of this particular arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, absolutely not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And you said you were getting intermittent pings. Were those on one or both of the cell phones that she was using at that time?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was, I believe, on one or both. I don't recall exactly. TPD was doing it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And law enforcement was attempting to track both cell phones — the burner phone as well as the phone that she had carried regularly previously?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: One moment, please.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No questions at this time, Judge.