Mary Hull — Direct/Cross/Redirect
1,448 linesMS. DUGAN: State may call its next witness.
MS. DUGAN: The State calls Mary Hull.
JUDGE WHEELER: Mary Hull, please.
JUDGE WHEELER: Good morning.
JUDGE WHEELER: Before you have a seat, we're going to swear you in. Okay, please raise your right hand in response to the court.
MS. DUGAN: Good morning. Will you introduce yourself to the jury and spell your name for our court reporter, please? Thank you, Ms. Hull. I know you're a little bit soft-spoken. If you'd speak into the microphone as much as you can. Didn't pick you up that time, so you just scoot up, please. Thank you. Thank you.
MARY HULL: Is that better?
MS. DUGAN: I think so. I'll let you know if I have trouble hearing you back here. All right, so where did you work in the summer of 2016?
MARY HULL: In the summer of 2016, I worked for the Department of Financial Services in their Office of Fiscal Integrity.
MS. DUGAN: I'm sorry, go ahead.
MARY HULL: In the Office of Fiscal Integrity.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and what did you do there?
MARY HULL: I was a financial investigator.
MS. DUGAN: And what were your duties as a financial investigator?
MARY HULL: We investigated all sources of fraud, waste, and abuse with state funds.
MS. DUGAN: Do you have any — or I guess, tell us about your educational background?
MARY HULL: I have a Bachelor of Science degree in finance from Florida State University.
MS. DUGAN: And you have experience — I mean, I know you told us about your job in 2016, but can you tell us about all of your experience in analyzing financial data?
MARY HULL: Yes, I have had 18 years of financial data analysis as an analyst, an investigator, and an auditor.
MS. DUGAN: Do you have any experience investigating white-collar crimes?
MARY HULL: I do. I specifically have eight years of criminal investigative experience in white-collar crimes.
MS. DUGAN: Does that include, like, money laundering and contract fraud, counterfeiting, and guzzling?
MARY HULL: Yeah. Advance — yeah, advance fee schemes and frauds.
MS. DUGAN: And what, I guess, is forensic accounting then — like, your area of expertise?
MARY HULL: Yes, it is.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and what is forensic accounting?
MARY HULL: It's the very detailed analysis of financial records and data to be used in court.
MS. DUGAN: Have you received any specialized training or experience in your field?
MARY HULL: I'm a certified fraud examiner in good standing with the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners.
MS. DUGAN: And have you also had in-service training?
MARY HULL: I have, especially in the criminal unit where I was. Had search and seizure requirements, chain of custody procedures, handling of evidence, and witness interviewing techniques.
MS. DUGAN: And where do you work now?
MARY HULL: With the United States Attorney's Office.
MS. DUGAN: What do you do for the United States Attorney's Office?
MARY HULL: I'm a financial investigator now.
MS. DUGAN: Is that for our local United States Attorney's Office here in Tallahassee, or is that in another part of Florida?
MARY HULL: Um, I'm actually with the Middle District out of Tampa.
MS. DUGAN: — you ever testified in court, um, about your analysis of financial records?
MARY HULL: I have.
MS. DUGAN: And about how many times?
MARY HULL: Uh, this would be my 19th time.
MS. DUGAN: Which are all my questions as to her expertise. Uh, would the defense like to voir dire the witness?
MR. DECOSTE: No, Your Honor. Thank you, though.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, you may proceed.
MS. DUGAN: So how did you become involved in this case?
MARY HULL: In the summer of 2016, I was asked to do an agency assist case, which was a case that helped another agency but wasn't specifically under my normal routine or purview.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so that was back when you were with DFS?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and the agency assist was to review all the records in this case to see if there was any links or association with the Adelson family?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right, I'm gonna ask you about a number of different things that you reviewed, and I've left several items of evidence there in front of you that I'll ask you about. Well, first of all, did you review several bank accounts for the Adelson family, including the bank accounts of Harvey Adelson, Donna Adelson, Wendi Adelson, and Charlie Adelson?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, specifically with Charlie Adelson, did you look at his Regions bank account from 2013 to 2016?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and then what about his credit cards?
MARY HULL: He had an American Express and a Capital One.
MS. DUGAN: All right, I want to turn your attention to State's 111, which should be one of the disks right in front of you.
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: Probably the bottom disk.
MS. DUGAN: And all of the evidence in front of you has been marked and shown to defense counsel this morning.
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: And did you have a chance to review all of the evidence in front of you this morning as well?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Were you able to find 111?
MARY HULL: Yes, it's the bottom one.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And is that Charlie Adelson's Amex records?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Looking at 111A, is that a printout of one page of the Amex records, the page in front of you?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right, and I'm going to ask you about several other disks there.
MS. DUGAN: Did you also look at the Adelson Institute bank records?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Okay, and for the record, that's State's Exhibit 110.
MS. DUGAN: In total, where I guess there are about 13 different accounts for the Adelson family and also about 18 different investment accounts for the Adelson family?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right, what about Luis Rivera? Did he have a bank account?
MARY HULL: Yes, he did.
MS. DUGAN: What bank was that with?
MARY HULL: That was with Chase.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and what year did you get records for that Chase account?
MARY HULL: 2014, 2015. That's when he had an account with Chase, yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and that's State 106. What about Sigfredo Garcia? Did he have any bank accounts?
MARY HULL: He did.
MS. DUGAN: Can you tell me about that?
MARY HULL: It was a Bank of America account from '15 to '16.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so when you say 2015 to '16, when was the bank account established? What year?
MARY HULL: I, I believe it was 2015 was the establishment of that one.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so he didn't have an established account at the time of Dan Markel's murder.
MARY HULL: There was evidence that he did have an account. It was requested from the bank, but the bank did not have any responsive documents.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so what we were able to get was 2015 to 2016?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right, and then did you also get — and that's State 107 — did you also get some employment records for Sigfredo Garcia?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and that's been marked as State 74. Where are those employment records from?
MARY HULL: Coastal Masonry.
MS. DUGAN: And what years were those records for?
MARY HULL: I believe they went all the way back to 2009.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. 2009 — up to 2014?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. What about Miss Catherine Magbanua? Did she have any bank accounts?
MARY HULL: She did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and what banks were those with?
MARY HULL: She had accounts at both Bank of America and Chase.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Bank of America — her accounts there have been marked 108-A and B. Was there like a checking and a savings account with Bank of America?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and what date ranges are our records there from?
MARY HULL: Um, they were from 2013 to 2016.
MS. DUGAN: And the A and B is that we had from summer of 2013 till the end of 2016, and we went back and also got January of 2013 to July of 2013, so that's why we have an A and a B there for Bank of America.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and then what about her other account — what bank was that with?
MARY HULL: Uh, Bank of Amer— oh, I'm sorry. The other account besides Bank of America: Chase.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. You were saying that there was a savings and a checking, the same thing — correct? America, right? Okay, all right. So Chase — can you give me the date ranges for Chase?
MARY HULL: The Chase account, in total we have from January 2013 to the end of 2016.
MS. DUGAN: All right, and those have been marked as 109-A and B — same question. We had summer of 2013 to end of 2016, and we went back and also got January of 2013 to summer of 2013.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Did you also review other types of documents besides just bank records?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Right. I want to specifically ask you about — I guess, did you review Catherine Magbanua's income tax filings for 2013 to 2015?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: All right, what about the Adelson Institute, their subpoena response regarding Catherine Magbanua's employment?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and that's been marked as State 68. You reviewed that document this morning?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Looking at State 75, did you review records from Dr. Rudner's office?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: And is that — is Dr. Rudner a plastic surgeon?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And these plastic surgeon records, do they detail information regarding a breast augmentation and payment therefor for Catherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: They do.
MS. DUGAN: All right, and moving on to State 76, did you review records from Broward Dermatology office, Dr. Jerome Obed's office?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and that was regarding Catherine Magbanua's employment?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And what dates were her employment — what dates was her employment in those records that you reviewed?
MARY HULL: I'd have to check my notes for the actual dates on that.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, well, we'll cover that during your testimony, so I'll move on from that now and then we'll come back to it. Okay. All right. Looking at — did you also review some DHSMV records, Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: All right.
MS. DUGAN: This has been marked at States 77, 78, 79, 80, and 69.
MS. DUGAN: Were those records for Sigfredo Garcia, Luis Rivera, and Catherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: They were.
MS. DUGAN: In all of those records that you reviewed, was there a certification attached from the business or entity that they were from, certifying that they are all business records of those places?
MARY HULL: They did.
MS. DUGAN: At this point, Judge, I would move in State's Exhibits 106 through 110, the bank records — I'm sorry, 111 and the 111-A, the bank records and Charlie Adelson's Amex records.
JUDGE WHEELER: Any objection?
MR. DECOSTE: No.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, 106 to 111 will be admitted.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, I've got a couple more for you: 68, the Adelson Institute records; 69; 77 through 80, which are all DHSMV records.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, so that's 69, and say that again?
MS. DUGAN: 68, 69, and 77 through 80.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, any objection?
MR. DECOSTE: Not to any of those coming in, Your Honor. No objection.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, thank you. So 68, 69, 77, 78, 79, and 80 are admitted, and 74 through 76, which are records from Coastal Masonry, Dr. Rudner, and Broward Dermatology — all right, those will also be admitted without objection. Thank you.
MS. DUGAN: All right. I'm going to first ask you some questions about Luis Rivera, then we'll go to Sigfredo Garcia, then to Catherine Magbanua.
MS. DUGAN: All right, so you said you looked at DHSMV records for Luis Rivera.
MS. DUGAN: And I'm not going to ask you to go through those records today on the projector, but I'll just ask you some questions about them, and then they are in evidence if the jury wants to look at them more.
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: What, if any, vehicles did Rivera acquire after the murder of Dan Markel on July 18th of 2014?
MARY HULL: May I refer to my notes?
MS. DUGAN: Yes, ma'am.
MARY HULL: Okay. Luis Rivera — he purchased on July 28, 2014, a 2003 Suzuki motorcycle, and then on July 31, 2014, he purchased a Toyota Camry.
MS. DUGAN: So that was a — was that a yellow 2003 Suzuki motorcycle on July 28, 2014, and a green '96 Toyota Camry on July 31, 2014?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And did you analyze his bank records?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: What did you learn about his banking patterns or habits?
MARY HULL: He primarily worked in cash.
MARY HULL: His Coastal Masonry employment records would be direct-deposited in his account, and then as soon as it hit his account, he would pull it out in cash, almost all of it.
MARY HULL: So much so that he would end up having overdrafts for automated charges that would come through, and that was just a normal pattern for him. He operated in cash.
MS. DUGAN: So his paycheck would be deposited, he'd immediately take it out, and then start overdrafting until the next one came in?
MARY HULL: Yes, that's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Did the pattern change after July 18th of 2014, after the murder of Dan Markel?
MARY HULL: It did. He no longer pulled out large amounts of cash. The money stayed in his account, and he had no overdraft.
MS. DUGAN: When was the last large cash withdrawal before the murder of Dan Markel?
MARY HULL: I believe that was July 16, 2014.
MS. DUGAN: So two days before the murder.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Now and that was the last time for a couple of months that a large cash withdrawal was made?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: When did his old habits — you know, direct deposit of the check, withdrawing it in cash, then getting the overdraft — when did that resume after the murder of Dan Markel?
MARY HULL: In about November of 2014.
MS. DUGAN: So maybe about four months later?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: So from July 16, 2014, when he had that last large cash withdrawal, to his normal banking pattern resuming in November — during that time that he's not withdrawing any money out of his account, could that be indicative of him having another source of cash separate from the money that comes in from his job?
MARY HULL: I would believe so, yes.
MS. DUGAN: Did you look at the — you said you looked at the DHSMV records of Sigfredo Garcia?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: What, if any, vehicles did Sigfredo Garcia acquire after the murder of Dan Markel?
MARY HULL: He purchased on July 26, 2014, a blue Chevrolet Monte Carlo.
MARY HULL: On August 22, 2014, he purchased a Honda Racer motorcycle, and then on October 17, 2014, he purchased a Nissan Maxima.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and so that was a blue 1984 Monte Carlo on July 26 of 2014, a yellow and black '97 Honda Racer motorcycle in August of 2014, and in October of 2014 a gold 2000 Nissan Maxima?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And did you analyze his bank accounts?
MARY HULL: I did. From his — his patterns were more normal, I would say.
MARY HULL: His money would go into the account and he would just make normal purchases. It didn't seem to have a lot of cash. He would just use his debit card.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Did he have both a checking and savings account?
MARY HULL: He did.
MS. DUGAN: Now, you said that the bank records that we were able to get from his bank cover 2015 and 2016?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: Were there any bank records that you were able to review of his any time around the murder?
MARY HULL: There was not, not till the following year.
MS. DUGAN: Right. Now, you said that you reviewed his Coastal Masonry records. Did he work at Coastal Masonry every day?
MARY HULL: No, his work was very sporadic. He worked a couple of months at a time.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Can you give me those dates that he has paychecks from Coastal Masonry?
MARY HULL: Yeah, from February of 2009 to December of 2009 he had two months of payroll.
MARY HULL: April 2010, July 2010 — three months of payroll.
MARY HULL: October of 2012 to August of 2013 he had ten months of payroll. And April '14 — he had one month, he had two checks.
MS. DUGAN: Did he get a job in September of 2015 where he was getting more income?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And where was that job?
MARY HULL: Rapid Capital Funding.
MS. DUGAN: And did he work there up until his arrest in May of 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: From the time he's just getting these sporadic paychecks with Coastal Masonry until he starts getting paid with Rapid Capital, is there a big difference in the amount of money he's got coming in — from when he's working sporadically at Coastal Masonry to when he hits the job with Rapid Capital Funding in 2015?
MARY HULL: Yes, he was making about $5,000 a month at Rapid Capital.
MS. DUGAN: All right, now I want to — well, before I turn to Katherine Magbanua's bank records, I asked you about Charlie Adelson's Amex records.
MS. DUGAN: When you looked in his Amex records, did you find a flight that was purchased for Katherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And that's been moved into evidence as State's Exhibit 111A. Where was the flight to?
MARY HULL: Santo Domingo.
MS. DUGAN: And when was the flight purchased?
MARY HULL: March 6, 2015.
MS. DUGAN: And how much was it for?
MARY HULL: $970.74.
MS. DUGAN: Permission to publish?
MR. DECOSTE: No.
MS. DUGAN: So, here we have the American Express at the top.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Whose account are we looking at?
MARY HULL: Charlie Adelson.
MS. DUGAN: And down here, this is the flight on Spirit Airlines.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Going to Santo Domingo?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Out of Fort Lauderdale?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And what's the passenger name here?
MARY HULL: Katherine — I'm not going to say it anymore.
MS. DUGAN: And here is the amount that the flight cost?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: $170.74?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Now, all of the bank records that you told us about, turning to Katherine Magbanua, she had one Bank of America account, one Chase account, both with savings accounts and checking accounts each?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And those records — are they pretty voluminous?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Are you, in your testimony today, going to be relying on summaries of her bank records for your testimony?
MARY HULL: I will.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Specifically, I want to turn your attention to the notebook in front of you.
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: If you could open that — I want to direct you to the disc that's in the side.
MARY HULL: Yes, ma'am.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Before court today, did you have an opportunity to view the contents on that disc?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And that's 81A?
MARY HULL: Yes, correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And what's on that disc?
MARY HULL: It's the account summary — it's the summary of all of her accounts that are merged and analyzed, and it's an Excel document.
MS. DUGAN: It is. Okay. Looking in that binder, 81B — is that like the summary chart that you did of that big summary on 81A?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So it's just a printout of the same summary chart that's on 81A?
MARY HULL: Yep.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. 81C — is that an employment timeline of Katherine Magbanua with an attached spreadsheet?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: 81D — are those a summary of Katherine Magbanua's checks from the Adelson Institute?
MS. DUGAN: 81E — are those all of Katherine Magbanua's cash deposits by day from 2013 to 2016?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: 81F — are those a graph of her cash deposits from 2013 to 2016?
MS. DUGAN: 81G — is that a graph of her cash deposits for 2014?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: And H — a graph with an attached spreadsheet of her income sources for the year 2013?
MS. DUGAN: 81I a graph of her income sources for 2014 with an attached spreadsheet?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: 81J — a graph of her income sources for 2015 with an attached spreadsheet?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: And 81K — a graph of her income sources for 2016 with an attached spreadsheet?
MARY HULL: Yep.
MS. DUGAN: And then in 81L and 81M, is that her employment timeline combined with her cash deposits, and then 81M is combined with the date of the murder as well?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right. And 81A through M — those are true and accurate depictions of the summaries that you'll be relying on in this case?
MARY HULL: They are.
MS. DUGAN: And those are based on her bank records?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: Her employment records?
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: At this point I would move 81A through M into evidence.
JUDGE WHEELER: Any objection?
MR. DECOSTE: There's a lot there, but no objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: All this stuff will come in — be admitted as State's 81A through M. Right.
MS. DUGAN: Permission to publish those, Judge?
JUDGE WHEELER: You may.
MS. DUGAN: You'll see this on your screen in front of you — the small one.
MARY HULL: Okay, perfect.
MS. DUGAN: Do you also have a — is there a laser there on the witness stand?
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: If you need to point something out to the jury, you can aim that at the screen up here.
MARY HULL: Mine or that one?
MS. DUGAN: This one.
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so what do we see here? What's this?
MARY HULL: This is — how I start the analysis is one account at a time. And this is showing that I take every action that happens on a bank account and give it a line item on the spreadsheet. It's broken up by the date, the type, the withdrawals, deposits, and the running total for my analysis.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And so what we're looking at here is the Excel document that's contained on 81A, that disc in the front of your binder?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Looking here at the bottom — I'm going to put my mouse right here.
MS. DUGAN: Bank of America — is that her savings account in her Bank of America account?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Looking at the next tab — is that her checking account in her Bank of America account?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: Savings account for Chase?
MARY HULL: Yep.
MS. DUGAN: Savings account — I'm sorry — checking account for Chase?
MARY HULL: Yep.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and then here are your yearly totals and summaries?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. I'm just going to have you quickly, if you can, walk us through each of these tabs just so we know the specifics of what everything is.
MS. DUGAN: Looking at the Bank of America savings, can you walk us through these columns up here?
MARY HULL: Yes. The column — it works from the first summary, would get the number. Column B, so under line item one would be the first thing in that bank record, and then it goes down by date.
MARY HULL: And then when I've combined the accounts — so I'd have four accounts on one spreadsheet — then I give them another number, so it's a coding system. So column A is actually a coded system showing where it falls on the combined spreadsheet.
MS. DUGAN: Okay.
MARY HULL: The account number that it's referencing, the date of the transaction, the type of transaction, and then it's broken out whether it's a withdrawal or a deposit, and then that is the running balance for that day.
MS. DUGAN: I'm going to go down to the bottom. How are you able to check whether the analysis of this particular account is correct?
MARY HULL: I do a particular check of my numbers. I do all the deposits, all the withdrawals, and then I start with the beginning balance and I add the deposits, subtract the withdrawals, and then the ending balance should match the ending balance on the running balance.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And you do the same thing for each of these types of accounts for each of the banks?
MARY HULL: I do.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And then there's a check box at the bottom of each analysis.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Keep running with it.
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: Same thing for Chase savings, same thing for Chase checking?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Alright. Let's look at the years and the summaries.
MS. DUGAN: I'm gonna click on 2016.
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: What do we see here? How do you — what do we see in this tab?
MARY HULL: Okay. Once the accounts are combined, then I sort them, and then in the categories, and then they're split out by year.
MARY HULL: So for the Adelson Institute 2016, those show the total deposits she received from them.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so then, so by year, you're taking every type of deposit, putting in a category — like that's all her payments from Adelson Institute, here's all her payments from cash, or there's all her payments from Dr. Obed — and then do you also do all the types of withdrawals that she makes?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And you put those into categories, like this is what she had to spend on auto maintenance, that's what she spent at Amazon, and so forth, in all the categories all the way through her entire year?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And then you do a summary of that year?
MARY HULL: I do. Each one of these sorted columns has now become part of this summary. Here the deposit descriptions are first, and then the withdrawals.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so we have deposit right here, and then we have withdrawals down with the category of the withdrawal down here with the total, and then your check box?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: So you did this for 2016, 2015, 2014, and 2013?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: I want to ask you about a specific one in 2015 that I want to come back to later.
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: It's already up.
MS. DUGAN: What did we see here in 2015?
MARY HULL: That is where I'm showing that not only did she receive a check, but the check bounced, so I netted them out because she didn't receive any real income.
MS. DUGAN: And where were these checks from?
MARY HULL: They were from the SINS LLC club.
MS. DUGAN: SINS Club LLC, DBA Fate's?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Does DBA mean "doing business as"?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Okay. And how many checks total — in all of her accounts from 2013 to 2016, did she have checks from SINS doing business as Fate's?
MARY HULL: Those are the only two.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Now I see four lines here. Why do you say two?
MARY HULL: Because two show that she had received the money, and then two show that the money was withdrawn from her account as an NSF check.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so a check was deposited but then it bounced and so it's insufficient funds. Does she ever receive any income from this?
MARY HULL: Not according to the bank records.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and when were these checks — what was the date on these checks?
MARY HULL: The first one was April of 2015 and June of 2015.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and there were just two checks, one from April and one from June?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: Do you remember the amount of these checks?
MARY HULL: They were just shown. Oh, thank you.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, what was the amount?
MARY HULL: Okay, the April one was $406 and the one in June was $985.
MS. DUGAN: Do you recall what was in the memo line of the check?
MARY HULL: I believe it said tips.
MS. DUGAN: Let me show you this one for $985.
MS. DUGAN: Do you have a question or recollection about what it says in the memo line?
MARY HULL: Yeah, it says April 1st to May 1st, 2015, tips.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so $985 is what she was paid on this check for her work from April 1st to — I'm sorry, April 1st to May 1st of 2015 — for her tips?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, she did not receive any income for this?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Or the $400 one you showed us?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: They both bounced?
MARY HULL: They both bounced.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, I want to show you the 2013 to 2016 tab that I have up right now. What is this?
MARY HULL: When I combine all of her bank accounts, I summarize them by date order and then I put in a running balance, so it gives me an idea of how much money a person would have over all of their accounts on a particular day.
MS. DUGAN: You did that for everything from 2013 to 2016 and then put your check boxes at the bottom?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: What about under summary? What is this?
MARY HULL: That is a combined of all those years. You see, leading up to it, it's shown by year, each one of the transactions of totals, deposits, and withdrawals, and then they're not only broken out by year but they're totaled by that block.
MS. DUGAN: So this is for Bank of America and Chase checking and savings, and it shows us all her deposits, the source of the deposit, the year that it was deposited, and the amount that was deposited that year of that source of income?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and then there's a total next to it and a total per year here at the bottom?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And then looking down below, same for withdrawals?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Gives you a category, the amount per year for that category, and then the totals?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And then you have your checkbox this year?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. I want to — and you said that 81B in the binder there is basically just a printed version of, I guess, if the Excel was converted to a PDF and then printed?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: For the purpose of that binder?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Can you just show the jury 81B there in your binder so they see what you mean?
MS. DUGAN: All right, so looking at the summary here, for the year 2013, so let me go up just slightly.
MS. DUGAN: 2013, what's her highest source of income in 2013?
MARY HULL: Sophie Dental.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and that's right here?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Is that $13,433.41?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and then her cash was her second highest source of income that year, right?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And that was how much cash did she deposit in 2013?
MARY HULL: Uh, thirteen thousand and thirty-five dollars.
MS. DUGAN: All right, I want to skip over to 2016 now. What was her highest source of income in 2016?
MARY HULL: Uh, Sigfredo Garcia.
MS. DUGAN: And is that right here?
MARY HULL: Yes, fourteen thousand nine hundred.
MS. DUGAN: Yes. And how much cash did she deposit in 2016?
MARY HULL: Uh, eleven thousand nine hundred and twenty-one dollars and 33 cents.
MS. DUGAN: And Sigfredo Garcia, 2016—that's the year that he would have been working at Rapid Capital Funding?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Now, in 2014, what's her highest source of income in 2014?
MARY HULL: It's cash.
MS. DUGAN: And how much cash did she deposit in 2014?
MARY HULL: $46,820.
MS. DUGAN: And what about in 2015?
MARY HULL: It's cash as well.
MARY HULL: $26,523.77.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so these are the cash totals here at the top?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right, and we're going to cover her cash deposits by day and by month later in this presentation, right?
MARY HULL: Right.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. All right, so based on the records that you reviewed, were you able to ascertain where she may have worked or what businesses she received income from in her bank records and employment records?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: What do we see here?
MARY HULL: That is a listing of the employment sources that I can see through her bank account, where she was employed.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and the dates that she was receiving paychecks, start to finish, for each of these companies is next to it?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so from January of 2013 to December of 2013, she received paychecks from Encore Nationwide.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: From January 2013 to May of 2013, she received paychecks from Millennium Therapy.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: CO Next for the month of April 2013.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Sophie Dental from May of 2013 to July 2014.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Adelson Institute from August I'm sorry, October 2014 to May 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Jerome Obed from July of 2015 to March 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And Quintana Lopez from July of 2016 to October 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes, that's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and then what do we see in the chart up here?
MARY HULL: You could see how it was broken down by a year, and then I get the total both yearly and by each individual employer.
MS. DUGAN: So for each of these columns, this is the total amount of paychecks she's receiving from that company in that year?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and then here's the total down below and out to the side?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: What do we see here?
MARY HULL: This is a bar chart representing the information you just, um, reviewed, and it shows the dates on the bottom, and then there, the amount of time that would have been reflected by that bar for that employment.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so each company has a different color, and the bar represents the time that the paychecks began until they ended.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Now, we saw that she received two checks from SINS doing business as Fate in 2015. Are those here on this graph?
MARY HULL: They are not.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, you said those checks bounced?
MARY HULL: They did.
MS. DUGAN: So she did not receive any actual income from there?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, what we see in this graph are businesses that she actually received income from into her bank account.
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: All right, I want to focus on the yellow line that we see here from her, when she received paychecks from Adelson Institute. Did you review paychecks from Adelson Institute to Catherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: And in what accounts did you find those checks? Like, coming out of what account and going into what account?
MARY HULL: Um, she deposited them in both this checking and savings for Chase and Bank of America, and they were coming out of Adelson Institute's Regions account.
MS. DUGAN: The records we have in evidence?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: What other records did you review with respect to her employment at Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: Um, the records that they submitted through the subpoena.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so the state subpoenaed records. They gave a return for those records with some information in it?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Did that return contain an employment application?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Did they uh, did it contain timesheets?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Did it contain a W-2 or tax filing records?
MARY HULL: It did contain a record for the Department of Revenue's rehire information.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Any W-2s?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: And any performance evaluations?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Job description?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: What records did Adelson Institute have for Catherine Magbanua's employment besides the Department of Revenue that you just told us about?
MARY HULL: They submitted a QuickBooks summary of the checks that they had given her.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and what is QuickBooks?
MARY HULL: It's a popular accounting software that people can use both personal and business.
MS. DUGAN: What time period did the printout cover?
MARY HULL: I believe it was September of '14 through March of '16.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and I want to turn your attention to State's Exhibits 82 and 68 in front of you. That should be in the stack of documents. 68?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Is that in 68, is that the Department of Revenue and the QuickBooks summary you just told me about?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Now, what was the what was the date range that law enforcement had on the subpoena to Adelson Institute as to what records that we wanted from them?
MARY HULL: Um, I believe they said any and all, uh, employment history and file.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and that's what we got, and this is all we got. Okay, I want to turn your attention to State's Exhibit 82. Okay, what is State's Exhibit 82?
MARY HULL: Probably the last one there, and that's that, of course.
MS. DUGAN: Okay.
MARY HULL: I have, um, the actual copies of the checks for Catherine Magbanua.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and those were from the bank account?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, at this time I'd move 82 into evidence.
JUDGE WHEELER: Any objection?
MR. DECOSTE: No.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. State's 82 submitted into evidence.
MS. DUGAN: How many total checks were there? You're looking at the copies of the checks from Katherine Magbanua's bank account. How many total checks were there from the Adelson Institute?
MS. DUGAN: You know what, why don't I ask you this: did you create did you rely on a summary in this case of the checks that she received from Adelson Institute that's numbered in an Excel format?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Is this that summary?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. How many checks total were there from Adelson Institute to Catherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: 44.
MS. DUGAN: And all of these checks were deposited by Catherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Who were all the checks signed by?
MARY HULL: Donna Adelson.
MS. DUGAN: When was the first check issued, as in the date on the check, to Catherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: It was written on September 17, 2014.
MS. DUGAN: So that would have been almost two months to the day after the murder of Dan Markel on July 18, 2014?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: How often — and let me ask you one more thing while we're on that. We saw on the employment timeline that you had her employment beginning in October of 2014. Why is that, when the first check was dated September 17th?
MARY HULL: The bank records only reflect when the money hit her account, and as you noticed, the posting date on it does actually say October.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so you go from the time it hits her account?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Now, after that first check was issued on September 17th and hit her account in October of 2014, how often then did she receive checks from Adelson Institute after that?
MARY HULL: Two checks a month.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, Your Honor.
MR. DECOSTE: Speculation as to when they were received.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
MARY HULL: Yeah, two checks a month.
MS. DUGAN: And were the pay periods for those checks like around ten days, sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more?
MARY HULL: Yeah, that's correct, about 10 days.
MS. DUGAN: What amount were all those checks for?
MARY HULL: The amounts were for $400 — well, her check came in at $407.58.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so you're saying after taxes and everything?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, that was from that. Now, all of the checks are $407.58?
MARY HULL: 43 out of 44 of them are, yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right. The first one is for a little less, right?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And that's this first row here?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And that one's for $203.79?
MARY HULL: Yes. That looks to be for only about maybe three or four day pay period. Yes, maybe three.
MS. DUGAN: All right. So here in this summary you have the date it posted, the check number, the payment amount, the date on the check, the memo line, what it said, right?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: What was the date of the last check according to Adelson Institute QuickBooks records that they responded with?
MARY HULL: Oh, that they responded with?
MS. DUGAN: Yes, ma'am.
MARY HULL: Their last one was March 31, 2016.
MS. DUGAN: Now, when looking at Katherine Magbanua's account, were there additional checks after March 31, 2016?
MARY HULL: Yes, there were three additional checks.
MS. DUGAN: And are those the three ones in black ink here at the bottom?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: I guess it would be check numbers — if you look over at the far left column — 42, 43, and 44?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: In her account — according to her account — what was the last check? What date was that written?
MARY HULL: It posted on May 17, 2016.
MS. DUGAN: So the check posted May 2, 2016, another one May 2, 2016, and May 17, 2016 — those were all not included on the Adelson Institute QuickBooks response.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Did she receive any further checks after Sigfredo Garcia was arrested on May 25, 2016?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: What was the total amount that she deposited into her account from Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: She had $17,729.73 — 73 cents.
MS. DUGAN: I see that some of these checks are in black ink, some are in red ink. What does the red ink indicate?
MARY HULL: Sequential check numbers.
MS. DUGAN: What does that mean?
MARY HULL: That in the checkbook it was one after another.
MS. DUGAN: Meaning that — can you show us the State's 82, which is the copies of all the checks? They're in front of you. Show us what you mean.
MARY HULL: Up here in this check number, they would have been sequential. They would have been 17, 18, 19.
MS. DUGAN: Is that unusual when looking at payroll?
MARY HULL: Yes. You know, normally you pay per time — it wouldn't land being one after another.
MS. DUGAN: Well, explain it to us. How would a person normally write checks when they're doing payroll?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, Your Honor — speculation as to what a business would normally do.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
MARY HULL: You know, you'd have five employees, you'd write five checks. You would write five checks to each employee. You wouldn't necessarily write three checks to one employee.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And then the next pay period you'd write the other five checks?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Now, how many sequential checks did she receive in a row, looking at your summary?
MARY HULL: She had three. Going down from left to right, she had three, and then six, and then six more.
MS. DUGAN: So three from February 2015 to March 2015?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Those were all written February 4th and 5th, 2015?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And then six in a row written from October 2015 to December 2015 — or the date on the check list was those dates, I mean?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And then the date on the check from January 2016 to March 31st, 2016 — that's another six in a row there?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and all those were sequential?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: What about the column on the far right next to memo — what is the asterisk?
MARY HULL: Advance pay — that she was paid prior to the time frame that's posted on the memo.
MS. DUGAN: So the check date predates the employment period?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Her paychecks being issued before the work is complete?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And that happened about 22 times?
MARY HULL: That sounds right.
MS. DUGAN: All right. I want to turn your attention to Dr. Rudner's records — the plastic surgeon records.
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: What was the date of Katherine Magbanua's breast augmentation surgery?
MARY HULL: I believe it was October 18th, 2014.
MS. DUGAN: How much did that breast augmentation cost?
MARY HULL: The total charges were $4,605.
MS. DUGAN: And how was that amount paid?
MARY HULL: $4,400 was in cash and $195 was from her accounts. Then there was an additional charge — I guess she picked up record — for $13.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So, um, you see a couple of amounts there — the patient payment $150 and $45 were all from a Visa account?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Cash was paid in the amount of $4,000, then $400, and then $13.50?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: When you looked at Katherine Magbanua's bank accounts, was there any evidence that she paid for that breast augmentation from her accounts?
MARY HULL: I did not see any payments from her account other than the $150 and the $45.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So that was her accounts that she paid the — I guess it would be $195 total — from?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And the remaining balance after that was all paid in cash, and that would have been, it looks like, about two weeks before the surgery?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: Or within the two weeks before the surgery?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: Now, when you looked at the amount of withdrawals from her account, did she have any corresponding withdrawals to reach that amount of cash that was paid here to Dr. Rudner's office?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Did you try to add up, like, all her cash withdrawals from that whole year leading up to the surgery to see if that would equal that amount?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: How much total cash did she withdraw that whole year, from January 2014 to October 2014?
MARY HULL: $3,180.
MS. DUGAN: Now, at the time of her breast—
MS. DUGAN: —augmentation surgery, was she receiving paychecks from Adelson Institute that month, in October of 2014?
MARY HULL: She was.
MS. DUGAN: Was there any disruption in her paychecks from Adelson Institute to reflect, you know, time off for a surgery?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Now, after her surgery, was there a decrease in the amount of money she was receiving from Adelson Institute that could account for her having a few days off?
MARY HULL: No, there wasn't any reduction in her pay.
MS. DUGAN: No reduction. Looking at her checks — looking at the ones from — so I'm looking at, if you look over at the far left column, row — yeah, column rows three and four.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: You said the surgery was on October 18th of 2014?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: She received a check dated October 28th, 2014?
MARY HULL: She did.
MS. DUGAN: And if the pay periods follow the pattern above — October 6th through 16th, September 22nd through October 1st — if she's being paid following that pattern around 10 days, that October 28, 2014 would encompass the date of surgery and the days thereafter, right?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And she received the same amount for that check and the one thereafter, just as she did all the others?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right, I want to ask you about, did you review DHSMV history for Katherine Magbanua?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Did she acquire a vehicle in January of 2016?
MARY HULL: She did.
MS. DUGAN: And what type of vehicle was that?
MARY HULL: It was a 2001 Lexus sedan. The prior owner was Harvey.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, you said that was a black 2001 Lexus?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And what date was the title transferred to her?
MARY HULL: January 23rd, 2016.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And you said the previous owner of that vehicle was Harvey Adelson?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: How much did the DHSMV title indicate that it was sold to Katherine Magbanua for?
MARY HULL: $1,700.
MS. DUGAN: Were you able to find any record of payment from Katherine Magbanua to any of the Adelsons for this vehicle?
MARY HULL: No, I did not. No checks were found in her account for that amount.
MS. DUGAN: Correct, or I guess withdrawn out of her account. Thank you. Were you able to find any $1,700 cash withdrawals?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Were you able to find any deposit into the Adelsons' account that would show that she's making a payment to them, by check or cash for this amount?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Was there a drop in the money that she received from Adelson Institute that could account for, "We'll sell you this car but we're going to take it out of your paycheck," anything like that?
MARY HULL: There was no reduction.
MS. DUGAN: No reduction?
MARY HULL: No reduction.
MS. DUGAN: It's a title for the Lexus.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And this gives us the information you gave us about the type of car, the year, the color.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. The purchaser?
MS. DUGAN: And the selling price?
MARY HULL: $1,700, yes.
MS. DUGAN: Can you insure a vehicle without transferring title?
MARY HULL: I don't believe so.
MS. DUGAN: And you transfer the title and you put a sales price — I mean, you're taxed on that sales price that you put on there, right?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Is there a financial benefit for listing a really low sales price on the title transfer for a vehicle?
MARY HULL: You'd pay less taxes.
MS. DUGAN: Who decides what number goes on the title transfer?
MARY HULL: The person that's presenting it to be transferred - the title.
MS. DUGAN: Meaning either the person transferring the title or the purchaser?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: If I sell a car to you for $3,000, we could agree to put $300 on the title transfer so that we pay less taxes?
MARY HULL: Then yes, you could do that.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. All right, I want to move on now to — and we're almost done — to cash bank accounts.
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: What do we see here in this next slide?
MARY HULL: This slide represents — it's a pie chart of her income.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. What do the colors indicate when we look at the box on the side?
MARY HULL: They just match. You have cash in red. You have the IRS in purple. You have Sophie Dunham, that tan color.
MS. DUGAN: So you — in the box you listed all of the different income sources she had for the year of 2013.
MS. DUGAN: They're each assigned a color, and then the pie chart represents — the colors represent the percentage of her total income for that year by source?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And I know you have these exact amounts in your multiple account summary and your summary chart and in some other Excel documents that we'll see, but I just want to ask you a couple of questions about this. What was the highest source of income in 2013?
MARY HULL: It was cash deposits.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Looking at the bottom.
MS. DUGAN: I'm sorry — Sophie Dental.
MARY HULL: Sophie Dental.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And you told us that earlier when you were looking at the actual numbers, right? And I know that looking at this pie chart, those are very close together — 24% and 23%. So what was a close second after Sophie Dental for her total amount of income for 2013?
MARY HULL: It would have been cash.
MS. DUGAN: Cash. Okay.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And you said that — I don't remember the number by heart — but Sophie Dental was around $13,400, and cash was right at around $13,000 right thereafter?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: What do we see in the next one?
MARY HULL: So we're going from 2013 to 2014 here.
MS. DUGAN: Right.
MARY HULL: This is a visual representation of her income for 2014.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. What does the red indicate?
MARY HULL: The red in this case is cash deposits.
MS. DUGAN: What does the yellow indicate?
MARY HULL: Adelson Institute.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. What was her total amount of — I guess, what was her highest source of income in 2014?
MARY HULL: Cash.
MS. DUGAN: And what was the total percentage of her cash deposits and her money from Adelson Institute — total percentage of her total income in 2014?
MARY HULL: 68% — 64% for cash and 4% from Adelson Institute.
MS. DUGAN: Correct. You said that in 2014 she first started to — the first check was written to her in September 2014 from Adelson Institute, deposited into her account in October?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: So she's only receiving about two months' worth of checks then in her account from the year 2014 from Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So we jumped from 23% to 46% from 2013 to 2014 for the total percentage of her income that's cash?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: In 2014 was the year that Dan Markel was murdered. That's your understanding?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: What about 2015?
MARY HULL: 2015, her highest source of income was cash, and that was 51%. Adelson Institute was 20%.
MS. DUGAN: And what was the total percentage of her total income that was cash deposits or Adelson Institute paychecks?
MARY HULL: Combined?
MS. DUGAN: Yes, ma'am.
MARY HULL: 71%.
MS. DUGAN: And what about 2016?
MARY HULL: 2016, the highest amount was Sigfredo Garcia.
MS. DUGAN: And that was at 25%?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, and then what about her cash deposits?
MARY HULL: That was 20%.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so for 2016, we've got 20% of her total income is cash deposits at 20%, and 8% is Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And she only received checks, you said, from Adelson Institute from January to May of 2016.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: After May 25th, no more checks?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So in 2016, she's got 20% of her total income as cash deposits. In 2013, 23% of her total income as cash deposits. And you said in 2014 and 2015 she had 64% of her total income was cash deposits and 51% of her total income was cash deposits?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right. And did you actually track every cash deposit by day for every year from her account?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Is that what we see here?
MARY HULL: That is.
MS. DUGAN: Well, it pulled up on your screen, but it didn't on mine. I think I might have to exit.
MS. DUGAN: One second.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Is that what we see here?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, so looking at the top, this would be the first cash deposit that we have a record — or that we have records from — January 2013 to the end of 2016, right?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: So this would be her first cash deposit for the year 2013 into her Chase account on January 2nd. $240?
MARY HULL: That's correct. Correct.
MS. DUGAN: All right, and so here we have every cash deposit she made every day for the whole year of 2013, and then a total for that year?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: And that was $13,035?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MS. DUGAN: Same for 2014.
MS. DUGAN: Is that what we see?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And this is in your binder as well, right?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: Every line?
MARY HULL: Every line.
MS. DUGAN: And then a total for 2014?
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: $46,820?
MARY HULL: Yep.
MS. DUGAN: And then looking at 2015, same question, and a total.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: 2016 — those are all her cash deposits for 2016, and the total.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And her 2014 total was slightly over $46,000. For 2015, it's a little over $26,000.
MARY HULL: That's right.
MS. DUGAN: And then back down to $11,000 in 2016.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And then this is her total amount of cash deposits here at the bottom.
MARY HULL: For that time frame, 2013–2016.
MS. DUGAN: What year had the highest amount of cash deposits?
MARY HULL: 2014.
MS. DUGAN: Did you also graph these by month?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: If you could get back to that slide.
MS. DUGAN: Is that what we see here?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So this would be...
MS. DUGAN: The columns are the years and then the totals, and your months below. You've got the total amounts she deposited per month, per year.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. You said the highest amount of cash deposits between 2013 and 2016 was in the year 2014?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: How much more did she deposit in 2014 than 2013? Is that twice as much? Three times as much?
MARY HULL: Almost three times as much. Three times as much.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And then 2015 — $26,000?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: About twice as much as in 2013?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And then in 2016 — $11,000, or $11,921?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Looking at these numbers. Which month is your highest amount of cash deposits?
MARY HULL: August of 2014.
MS. DUGAN: So August 2014 is the highest amount in all of the years?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: In all of the months?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. How much did she deposit? Can you use your laser, if you don't mind?
MS. DUGAN: How much did she deposit in August of 2014?
MS. DUGAN: Maybe there's a side button to turn it on, or on the bottom.
MARY HULL: Okay, so August of 2014 was $13,200.
MS. DUGAN: And that would be the month following July 18, 2014?
MARY HULL: Yes. Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Which is when Dan Markel was murdered?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: When is the second highest cash deposit after that one?
MARY HULL: The second highest is August 2014.
MS. DUGAN: No, I'm sorry. You said August 2014 was the highest?
MARY HULL: Second highest.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. What was the highest?
MARY HULL: August 2014.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. What was the second highest?
MARY HULL: October.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. October of 2014.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. That was about three months after the murder?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And that was the same month you said that she got the breast augmentation done?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: What amount did she deposit in October of 2014?
MARY HULL: $5,720.
MS. DUGAN: What was the third highest amount?
MARY HULL: July 2014.
MS. DUGAN: That was the same month Dan Markel was murdered?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: How much did she deposit in that month?
MARY HULL: $5,300.
MS. DUGAN: What do we see here?
MARY HULL: It's a visual representation of her cash deposits by month.
MS. DUGAN: For the year of 2014?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. You just walked us through the three highest amounts of cash deposits in all three of those years, and they were all in 2014, right?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: So that's why we're looking at a line graph of just the year 2014?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: So you said August was the highest. Can you show us where August is?
MARY HULL: All those.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And that was $13,200.
MARY HULL: That's correct. The amounts are here on the other axis.
MS. DUGAN: That's right. Okay. And then you said the second highest was in October 2014. Where's that amount?
MS. DUGAN: And you said the third highest was in July of 2014. Can you show that to us?
MS. DUGAN: What do we see here?
MARY HULL: This is a visual representation of her cash deposits from the whole 2013 to 2016 time frame by month.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So we've got down at the bottom January 2013 all the way to December 2016.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. What month is the big peak that we see close to the middle?
MS. DUGAN: What month is that?
MARY HULL: August 2014.
MS. DUGAN: So in August 2014, that's that — I believe it was $13,200 cash deposit?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And the months kind of surrounding it that we just talked about, her second and third highest, we see those as well?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. I mean, does any other month even come close to that August 2014 deposit?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: It's about twice as much as the other months.
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: A lot of this is getting to be asked and answered.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Let's move on.
MS. DUGAN: Yes, sir.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Were you able to compare the cash deposit line graph with the employment bar graph that we saw earlier?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Is that depicted here?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: So here we can see the businesses she was receiving income from, per her bank records and employment records, compared to how much cash she was depositing every month over the course of those years.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Was that also compared with the date of Dan Markel's murder?
MARY HULL: July 18th, 2014.
MS. DUGAN: That's right. Okay, and is that the black line we see in the middle of the — close to the middle of the screen here?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: Going from July all the way to the top?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right, and this in your notebook is 81M.
MS. DUGAN: I have a couple of questions about what we see here.
MS. DUGAN: What were the amount of cash deposits in the 12 months before the murder? So from July of 2013 to the summer of 2014?
MARY HULL: $15,600.
MS. DUGAN: $15,600 the 12 months before the murder?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: What were the cash deposits in the 12 months after the murder? So from July 19, 2014 to July 31, 2015?
MARY HULL: $44,963.
MS. DUGAN: And that's about three times as much?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Of all the cash deposits that you analyzed over the period January 2013 to the end of 2016, you said August had the highest amount, and that was at $13,200.
MS. DUGAN: My question is, is there any record in her bank records or employment records that she was employed during that time?
MARY HULL: Not according to that bar chart, no.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And this bar chart is based on her employment records and bank records?
MARY HULL: It is.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Can you show where you're talking about here with your laser?
MARY HULL: The gap.
MARY HULL: From Sophie Dental to Adelson Institute, there was no employment listed.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And that's during that August 2014 $13,200 peak?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: From the date that Dan Markel was murdered —
MS. DUGAN: Front tilt.
MS. DUGAN: July 18, 2014, till the end of August — so the end of the next month, August 31, 2014 — that's, I guess it would be about five or six weeks. I'll say six weeks. Okay.
MS. DUGAN: What was the total amount of cash that she deposited into her account during those six weeks?
MARY HULL: $17,300.
MS. DUGAN: So it's $13,200 alone in the month of August, but when you combine that with those last two weeks of July after Dan Markel was murdered, it's $17,300?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And by September, you said that she's being — the first check from the Adelson Institute is being written?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And in October, she received the breast augmentation?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And that's all the same year?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: All right. Now, you said you reviewed some Adelson Institute account records.
MS. DUGAN: Did their business give cash discounts for services?
MARY HULL: I believe they did.
MS. DUGAN: Did you... what was the annual income of Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: The Adelson Institute, just based on what they had coming in for income, not profit, was about $2 million dollars.
MS. DUGAN: And it was around that amount each year?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And you said they had assets above and beyond that. You said they had 18 different investment accounts.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: And about how much did Charlie Adelson make annually? Because he not only worked for Adelson Institute, but he also traveled around and earned income from other dental practices doing periodontal work, right?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: How much did he make annually?
MARY HULL: Some years it would be $3 million, others it would be a little higher.
MS. DUGAN: So $3 million or a little higher each year?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: During these years we've been talking about?
MARY HULL: Yes. He also had profit from real estate as well.
MS. DUGAN: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: No further questions.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. This is going to be a good time for us to break, and before the cross-examination.
JUDGE WHEELER: So we'll give you an hour for lunch. We'll come back at 1:15. Again, please remember: no discussions amongst yourselves or with anyone else. Please stay away from any press reports and the internet. And we'll see everybody back at 1:15 to continue with the testimony. Thank you.
JUDGE WHEELER: The jury is out of the courtroom. The door is closed. Please be seated.
JUDGE WHEELER: So just so I can get a gauge on how we're going to proceed this afternoon, Mr. DeCoste — you're doing the cross-examination?
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. Let me go ahead and excuse the witness first, and then we'll discuss about some scheduling. So you can go ahead, and if you need to leave anything here, the courtroom will be secure, but I'll leave that up to you. If you could just remain outside the courtroom. All right. All right. So we'll see you at 1:15, okay?
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, now the witness is out of the courtroom. So what is your — Mr. DeCoste, what's your best estimate in regards to the time for your cross-examination?
JUDGE WHEELER: I don't want to know how many pages. I just want your best estimate.
MR. DECOSTE: That's how I gauge it. I would say 30 to 50 minutes.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. All right. And then Ms. Cappleman. Then you'll be calling as your next witness after that — who?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'll go according to the order provided to the court.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. All right. And you'll be playing then some audio this afternoon?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I hope so.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. All right. We'll see about that. And okay. We'll go into recess then for an hour. We'll see everybody back at 1:15.
JUDGE WHEELER: Please be seated. Thank you.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Anything before we resume with Ms. Hull? Ms. Cappleman?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, there's two exhibits I wanted to bring to the court's attention that I think might fall into the same bucket as the call that Your Honor ruled on first thing this morning — the call to Erica, that Erica Johnson made to Charlie Adelson.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So these are both relating to the undercover number being called, which wasn't really considered part of the wire — recorded separately by the undercover. So there's two short calls. One is marked as 128 — that is the undercover call to the Adelson Institute, which was one of the bumps subsequent to the initial one we've talked a lot about. All right, this is — but this is Charlie Adelson to the Institute. This is the — the undercover agent to the Adelson Institute.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And then there's what I've marked as State's 134 — Charlie Adelson to the undercover.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Both of these — at least one of them I anticipate authenticating and laying some foundation for today, but I'm fine with holding off on publication of either of them. If Your Honor wants to listen to those tonight, we can argue about that in the morning.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Tell me again what 134 is — who to who?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That one is Charlie Adelson to the undercover number.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, because that's what I have as 128 on this bill.
JUDGE WHEELER: I just wanted to make sure. I don't have an issue with it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, I made a mess of it, so I'm trying to clear it up now.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. All right. So if you could send those both to me.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE WHEELER: And then — and you're saying that both of those are what, not for the truth of the matter asserted? Is that what your argument is? Okay. And are you familiar with those calls?
MR. DECOSTE: I am, Your Honor. And for posterity, we would make a legal argument: so if the government's not entering them in, or they're alleging that they're not entering them in for the truth of the matter, we would ask for the relevance of it — for them to articulate why they're entering it in then.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. Why don't I review them first, and then when they get the argument in regards to that — correct, if they're not for the truth, then they must be for some reason. And so I'll ask for that once, and after I have reviewed them. So if you could send them to my email in the same manner that Ms. Dugan sent the other one — that really made it easy. I take it that these are pretty short calls?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, Your Honor. They're both short.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay, all right. And so let me make a note.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Anything else, Ms. Cappleman? Okay, anything for the defense, Mr. DeCoste, before we bring Ms. Hull back onto the stand? Okay, all right. Can somebody notify Ms. Hull, please.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, you just come back and take the stand, please.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right, let's bring the jury in.
JUDGE WHEELER: Please be seated.
JUDGE WHEELER: We're ready to continue with the testimony of Ms. Hull and its cross-examination. And, Mr. DeCoste, you may proceed.
MR. DECOSTE: Thank you, Your Honor.
MR. DECOSTE: Ms. Hull, good afternoon. How are you?
MARY HULL: Good. How are you?
MR. DECOSTE: Doing well. Doing well. Thank you.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. You went through a lot of stuff in your direct examination with the charts, and you did a whole bunch of work in this case, right?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: And I don't mean to be offensive in reducing down the testimony, but I'm thinking that we can agree on a few points here. There was a bunch of cash that went into Katherine Magbanua's accounts, right?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: And then there were some cash purchases, right?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: And the cash is coming from somewhere, right? You can't say where.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: And we can agree that there was a spike in 2014 in that — in that cash?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: All right, and you looked at everything from 2013 all the way to 2016?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay, so your job — understanding you're now with the US Attorney's Office, right, not — DOJ as well, too, right? So previously you were with the state. You were a financial investigator, and that title of "investigator" some could interpret to mean that you're out there gathering items. In this case, in your work in this case, would you agree with me that you weren't independently investigating things — you weren't meeting with witnesses, right?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You didn't sit down with anybody — either Ms. Magbanua or any witnesses that are involved in this case?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: That it was more of law enforcement and the prosecution getting you items, correct?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You didn't issue any subpoenas to get any records, stuff like that?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. DECOSTE: So your review is confined to what was provided to you.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: All right, so let's knock out another quick topic. You did the comprehensive review, and I'm going to stay on the cash with Katherine, but this is an aside — with respect to your review of the Adelsons, all of them, in their work accounts — you agree with me that there was no withdrawal of cash that then corresponds to the deposits by Ms. Magbanua?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: All right.
MR. DECOSTE: Now, before we get back to Ms. Magbanua — Sigfredo Garcia, you'd agree with me that the analysis that you could do was limited because at times he didn't have a bank account, at times you couldn't get records, stuff like that.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You'd agree with me, too, that you wouldn't be able to do a financial analysis of any cash that he brings in by way of his crimes?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You understand that he is the father of Ms. Magbanua's children, and that he supports his kids through her — once he finally had a job, a legitimate job, and this would be all the way — and I think 2016 — there was actually a little bit over $10,000 worth of money that was coming out of his account and going to her?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you have any reason to believe that he wasn't supporting her in the years prior?
MARY HULL: I don't have any reasons about that.
MR. DECOSTE: But you have no way of analyzing any of his transactions if they were done in cash?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Now with respect to Ms. Magbanua's work, can you tell me on there what accounts for the liquor promotions? Let me add that — are you aware that Ms. Magbanua did liquor promotions for a period of time?
MARY HULL: Not specifically like that. If you gave me the name of the business...
MR. DECOSTE: Okay, let's go to the next business. What about Club Fate?
MARY HULL: Uh, I am aware that she had two checks from them.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay. So let's back up for a second, before — before we get into this other employment.
MR. DECOSTE: Your analysis, you'd agree with me, is confined to employment that she has where she's receiving a check into her bank account.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: That your analysis — you're not able to analyze any cash-paying job she has.
MARY HULL: Individually, that's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Had, let's say, the government given you employee records or something from different cash-paying businesses, you could have incorporated that into your — your — your analysis and your spreadsheet here, correct?
MARY HULL: I — I could have put it into some sort of chart, but I wouldn't have mixed it with the bank records.
MR. DECOSTE: Now I'm not putting on you as the reason why we don't have this, but I want to go through and find out if any of this is involved here. So Club Fate — Ms. Magbanua worked at Club Fate, and it was something that she was receiving cash tips. Does any of your analysis here account for her work at Club Fate?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. DECOSTE: In the summer of 2014?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. DECOSTE: You said that in — you did testify in direct examination about a check that — that bounced, right? And that was in April and June of 2015, right? All right. Now, are you aware — and understanding that you don't know what employment she had at Club Fate, you don't have records and stuff like that — do you happen to know the amount of cash tips that she had — had received from her work at Club Fate during that time, or is it confined only to a bounced check?
MARY HULL: I don't specifically know what cash she would have gotten, but if it was cash, it would be reflected in that chart if she put the cash in the bank.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. So let's back up a little bit here. So working at Club Fate, there's two different types of tips that you get. If a patron pays with a credit card and they tip on the credit card, the business pays the employee by way of check.
MR. DECOSTE: If the employee is given a cash tip, they keep that, right?
MR. DECOSTE: So Ms. Magbanua, if she were to be depositing cash tips from Club Fate, it's not reflected here in employment, but it's part of that — it would be part of that cash that's going into her account, correct?
MARY HULL: It could be, yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. But you just don't — and again, I'm not putting the blame on you — you just don't know because you don't have that information.
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: What about Hollywood Live? This chart that you — you did, does it in any way account for her employment at Hollywood Live?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. DECOSTE: Have you ever heard of Optima Realty?
MARY HULL: I have.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. And it's your understanding that Ms. Magbanua was working for Fabian Radoslovich at Optima Realty between April of 2016 and June of 2016?
MARY HULL: I don't have any record of that.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay. And not saying that — again, not saying that it was on you to go out and get it — if law enforcement had brought to you — you now work with the U.S. Attorney's Office — if they had brought to you a 302, an FBI report that says "we spoke to Fabian Radoslovich, Ms. Magbanua worked for me between April 2016 and June 2016, and I've paid her exclusively in cash..."
MR. DECOSTE: You would agree with me, though, that this chart here that's talking about the cash deposits — you're not able to put in there employment at Optima Realty, right?
MARY HULL: If she was paid in cash and put it in her account, I can show it.
MR. DECOSTE: Now, when you say "put it in her account," how would you know whether that is tips or not?
MARY HULL: I wouldn't.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. So what I'm saying is — what we're talking about, not on the spikes of the deposits, we're talking about the horizontal bars that you have — there's nothing in there for Optima Realty, correct?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. Now, Jerome Obid — he — he ran Broward Dermatology?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you know, um, how much he provided to Ms. Magbanua in cash separate to her paychecks?
MARY HULL: I do not.
MR. DECOSTE: And again, not putting this on you — you're not out there speaking to Dr. Obid and investigating like that, right?
MARY HULL: Right.
MR. DECOSTE: Nor are you out there, you know, requesting documents — you're going on what's been given to you, correct? You would agree with me that this chart that you did doesn't account for employment — and I'm not asking you whether she did or did not work, just do you agree with me that this does not account for employment at Club Fate?
MARY HULL: It does not.
MR. DECOSTE: Hollywood Live?
MARY HULL: It does not.
MARY HULL: Correct.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Optima Realty?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Sigfredo Garcia.
MARY HULL: That's also correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You don't know any of the amounts that Sigfredo Garcia gave over those years, correct?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Now, coming back over — and I think it's your 81A — highlighting those right there — 2013, '14, and '15 — you can't account, and I'm not, again, not blaming you on this, but you can't account for what, if any, support Sigfredo Garcia gave, right?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: But you'd agree with me, in 2016, he's clearly showing that he's somebody who's supportive.
MR. DECOSTE: So if we were to average the amount, there could be an additional $45,000 over those three years of support that he's given — but it's by way of cash from his criminal actions.
MARY HULL: Well, I can't quantify it, but yes, he could have given her cash.
MR. DECOSTE: We can agree either way — you don't know. He may have given nothing. He may have given that amount.
MR. DECOSTE: We just don't know.
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: If Ms. Magbanua, in the summer of 2014, is working at Club Fate, and then over at Hollywood Live, then in 2015, from April to June of 2015 — and I'm trying to do estimates here to line it up, these letters are real small.
MR. DECOSTE: So we've got the first two set of lines: Club Fate, Hollywood Live, Optima Realty, and Sigfredo Garcia.
MR. DECOSTE: Can we agree that those are potential sources of cash income during that time?
MARY HULL: Not cash income — income in support, if she put it in her bank account.
MR. DECOSTE: Yeah. Now, when you say — and I want — and I want to jump into that, just to make sure that I understand it correctly — "if she put it into her bank account," correct — what do you mean by that?
MARY HULL: I can only analyze the data that's in the bank statement.
MR. DECOSTE: Oh, you're saying like if money is kept at home, like, you wouldn't be able to analyze.
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you have any reason — please — is there any way for you to know either way whether the money that you're receiving right here is because Sigfredo Garcia has gotten a big payday by way of committing a murder?
MARY HULL: I would not know the source of the cash.
MR. DECOSTE: It's just — you're not able to know exactly what's going on with that cash, correct?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay. But you'd agree with me that your analysis — and the color portion above, which is a little bit more straight than my lines — that it does not account for one penny of support from Sigfredo Garcia, correct? Any nightclub jobs?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Optima Realty? Now, have you — have you ever worked in the — the nightlife industry at a club? Would you know — would you even know where to begin on how much somebody doing VIP bottle service in Miami should be making?
MARY HULL: I do not.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. So let's now go to Government 75.
MR. DECOSTE: You testified on direct examination that you didn't see any withdrawals, right, to correspond to the $4,000 payment that was made?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You have no way of saying that that money ties back to the Adelsons or any crime that was committed in this case, right?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: All you have in here is that Ms. Magbanua herself went in there and made a $4,000 payment during a time when she's receiving cash, where she's working cash jobs, and paid for the surgery herself.
MARY HULL: Cash is cash. I do not know.
MR. DECOSTE: You would agree with me that there's a very small percentage payment made by a Visa card?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: And that was Ms. Magbanua's Visa card — two payments?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: And ultimately, when she had to pay for her own medical records and the government requested them, she paid the $1,350 herself — says "patient pick up."
MARY HULL: So I'd agree to that.
MR. DECOSTE: At the end of the day, you'd agree with me that it is speculation to say that this money — that came from somebody else other than Ms. Magbanua and her own hard work?
MARY HULL: I cannot determine the source of the cash.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you happen to know the MSRP value in 2014 — I'm sorry, 2015 — of a 14-year-old vehicle with 160,000 miles?
MARY HULL: I do not.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you know whether $1,700 is above or below that amount?
MARY HULL: I do not.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you know how many accidents that vehicle was involved in?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. DECOSTE: Now, just like the surgery that we spoke a moment ago, it would be speculation to say that Ms. Magbanua did not pay for this, correct? You don't know either way.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You're just analyzing, saying, "Look, there is a connection between Ms. Magbanua and Mr. Adelson for this vehicle," and I don't know if those monies were actually paid.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: In your work on this case, were you ever given recordings of any phone call intercepts?
MARY HULL: I had a hard drive that had other information in it, but I wasn't specifically asked to review any of it.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. So let me explain a little bit more what I'm asking, and then I'll ask it again. So in this case, in 2016, you're aware that there was some recordings of phone calls that were done?
MR. DECOSTE: Have you ever listened to the phone calls where Ms. Magbanua was talking about how she purchased this vehicle from Ms. Magbanua?
JUDGE WHEELER: That's sustained.
MR. DECOSTE: Have you ever listened to the phone calls?
MARY HULL: No, I have not.
MR. DECOSTE: Have you ever been provided Charles Adelson's iCloud messages?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. Now, you testified on direct examination that there is no evidence of this car being purchased, right?
MARY HULL: That I can find.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you not remember, or is that a no?
MARY HULL: I do not see anything in the bank records that reflected a payment for it.
MR. DECOSTE: Would it refresh your recollection to take a look at Charles Adelson's iCloud messages with Ms. Magbanua going back to January of 2016?
MARY HULL: It wouldn't matter — my analysis on the bank records.
MR. DECOSTE: No, no. So this is just as to the vehicle. You testified — the government asked you, and you testified and said there's no evidence that this was a legitimate purchase. And I've asked you if you reviewed the iMessages — you said that you did. Is that correct?
MR. DECOSTE: Okay. Did you review the ones where Charles Adelson is —
MS. DUGAN: I object to the first three, Judge. If we could have a sidebar.
MR. DECOSTE: Miss Hull, do you agree with me that that's evidence of this — Magbanua purchased that vehicle?
MARY HULL: She's talking about purchasing.
MR. DECOSTE: And this would have been in January of 2016?
MARY HULL: According to that, yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Before any wiretaps?
MARY HULL: I don't know about the wiretaps.
MR. DECOSTE: Before any arrests?
MARY HULL: Yeah, it would be before the arrests.
MR. DECOSTE: And in fact, the discussion is specifically about how much was paid for the vehicle?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Now, of course, there's a discussion in there about the amount to offset what would be the tax responsibility, but you would agree with me that there's no discussion in there about, "Hey, you know, the car that I gave you for the murder." There's no discussion like that, right?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Instead, it's specifically the car that you purchased from me.
MARY HULL: Okay.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you agree?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Let's go now, and I think it's your 81B. I'm going to switch to it in a second. So let's talk about the cash now. Let's go back to that, and again we agree that there's cash going into Ms. Magbanua's accounts in 2013, '14, '15, '16, and there is that spike in 2014.
MR. DECOSTE: We agree on that, right?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: And money's going in.
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: You have no reason to believe that Ms. Magbanua is not depositing all of her cash, right?
MARY HULL: Could you rephrase that?
MR. DECOSTE: You have no reason to believe that she's keeping money at home.
MARY HULL: I wouldn't be able to tell.
MR. DECOSTE: Things that we don't know, right?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: Obviously, the $4,000 payment for the breast augmentation and the $1,700 for the Lexus, you don't see a withdrawal. But other than that, you have no reason to believe that she's not putting her money in the bank.
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Now would you agree with me that in your review you found something that there's multiple deposits on the same day, two different bank accounts, sometimes?
MARY HULL: Yeah, sometimes there would be multiple. She had a Bank of America account, a Chase account, and there were times that she would make two deposits at Bank of America or Chase on the same day.
MR. DECOSTE: Correct. Was that an issue for you as a financial investigator?
MARY HULL: Not for what she's charged.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay. Now, you can't say the reason why somebody would do that. I mean, there could be transfer costs on bank accounts, right?
MARY HULL: Um, there's not usually a transfer cost from one account, from bank to bank. The only fees I can think of would be ATM fees.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. And you don't know what the max deposit amount is for certain accounts or all accounts, do you?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. DECOSTE: Now, we're clear on the topic that we're talking about, right? On one day there would be multiple deposits into her same accounts, right?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. You found in your review that that was normal activity for Ms. Magbanua, right?
MARY HULL: That appeared to be consistent.
MR. DECOSTE: Let's go that way. So what we're talking about here is, what I've done is I've taken your exhibit and highlighted it in yellow. So when we start in 2014, what you have is days where, for instance, in line 41 and 42, she's making a deposit to Bank of America and to Chase.
MR. DECOSTE: Line 45, 46, doing the same thing. You go down to line 59, 60, and 61 — she makes two deposits to Chase on the same day. Right?
MARY HULL: Okay, yep.
MR. DECOSTE: You would agree with me, though, that this was normal activity for Ms. Magbanua. Because back in 2013 she was doing the exact same thing.
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: 2013 — that's almost a year before she's even met Charlie Adelson.
MARY HULL: I don't know when she met him.
MR. DECOSTE: If they met in October, you'd agree that this shows 10 months before, right?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: So we've got line three, four and five — she's doing the same thing, she's making multiple deposits in the same day.
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: You have no reason — uh, you don't know why she's done that, right?
MARY HULL: I do not.
MR. DECOSTE: And you have no reason to say to this jury that it was wrong for her to do it, right?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Let's go forward in time.
MR. DECOSTE: We're going now 2016. This continues throughout the life of the records that you have, that Ms. Magbanua is doing the exact same thing.
MR. DECOSTE: First, we have 2013, early 2014, 2015 she's doing the same thing, right?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: 2015, doing the same thing. 2016, doing the same thing.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: And when does it stop to you? When does it appear to stop?
MARY HULL: Well, the last note is line 129, 128 to February 11, 2016. May...
MARY HULL: 25th, 2016, I believe, we have. Sigfredo Garcia is arrested.
MR. DECOSTE: You have no more of these cash deposits like this, right?
MARY HULL: Well, yeah, that's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Now your analysis of Ms. Magbanua stops forever right here, line 135, August 10th, because she's arrested.
MARY HULL: Correct.
MARY HULL: This one stops because she made the last deposit of cash, but her records went on to the end of '16.
MR. DECOSTE: There wasn't much activity, though?
MARY HULL: No activity after October when she's arrested.
MR. DECOSTE: Correct.
MARY HULL: Except for automated charges.
MR. DECOSTE: Go back to... maybe what?
MR. DECOSTE: I hate to be a stickler, but Ms. Kawass will get mad at me if I don't correct it. It's the occasional mistake, correct?
MARY HULL: I'm sorry?
MR. DECOSTE: It's the occasional mistake, right?
MARY HULL: And what?
MR. DECOSTE: You agree with me that, well, in all of this, it's important that it's literally down to a penny, to a dollar, correct?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. So this name right here — you sat in Ms. Kawass's deposition, right?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Again, I'm not making a big deal about that, but she'll get mad at me if I don't correct it. It's "co-ops," right, not "co-op hats."
MARY HULL: Okay.
MR. DECOSTE: So I'm setting that up for something else that is a little bit more important, which is prior analysis that you've done in this case. That is an understandable and minor mistake.
MR. DECOSTE: Years back in 2019, you had done a bar chart, the same color bar chart shown as Ms. Magbanua's employment, right?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Agree with me that this one that was done back in 2019 is different than the one that you presented here today.
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. The difference is that, first, you don't have the SEO mark, but the employment of Broward Dermatology with Jerome Obid changed.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Now correct me if I'm wrong — that was because in your review you discovered a bank or wire transfer that you were able to attribute over to Dr. Obid that you previously weren't able to do. The...
MARY HULL: Bancorp, yeah. I guess that's what it was.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: And would you agree with me that you had all the information to do the chart in 2019, you just discovered, "Wait a second, there was a mistake," and you changed them? That's fair to say?
MR. DECOSTE: Let's go to the Adelson Institute. Okay, now before we get into these checks, let's talk about something you said on direct examination — that you didn't receive records, um, like a performance evaluation or an application.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You'd agree with me that those aren't required?
MARY HULL: They were required, if they had them, to submit them.
MR. DECOSTE: Yeah. By law in Florida or the United States, there's no requirement that an employer makes somebody fill out an application. Same thing with the performance evaluation — that's something that if the employer does it, they do it, right? You as a witness, obviously, you can analyze the numbers, but you can't say to this jury that she didn't work there.
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: In your review of what you have, in fact it indicates that she did, right?
MARY HULL: But you see some things that are off.
MR. DECOSTE: It's just analysis work, just giving all angles. So...
MR. DECOSTE: Going back to the records for a second — did you get the records for Erica Johnson or Clariza Lebredo?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. DECOSTE: Any other employee of the Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you know whether they filled out applications?
MARY HULL: I do not.
MR. DECOSTE: Or whether they got performance evaluations?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. DECOSTE: Or had a W-2?
MARY HULL: I don't.
MR. DECOSTE: You would agree with me that there could be businesses out there that just don't do this stuff.
MARY HULL: That's possible, yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: But it doesn't mean that Ms. Magbanua didn't work there.
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Now let's go back to the checks, these checks.
MR. DECOSTE: You've never sat and spoken with Donna Adelson, correct?
MARY HULL: No, I have not.
MR. DECOSTE: And for the jury — correct me if I'm wrong, Donna Adelson is the one that's writing all these checks?
MARY HULL: She signed all the checks, yes.
MR. DECOSTE: You don't know her work schedule?
MARY HULL: I do not.
MR. DECOSTE: Her check-writing habits?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. DECOSTE: You don't have any checks for those other employees to see if Ms. Magbanua was paid any different than them, right?
MARY HULL: There would have been checks in the bank statements that I looked at.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay, so have you done a spreadsheet for Clariza Lebredo, for Erica Johnson?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. DECOSTE: So you can't say whether this was in any way different than the way that Donna Adelson functioned for all of her employees?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Can you say when these checks were given to Ms. Magbanua?
MARY HULL: I can't.
MR. DECOSTE: What we have here, and I think the jury gets it, I want to go through it.
MR. DECOSTE: This is the data that's posted — the check number, the amount, the date on the check. And the issue that you saw is that the checks are being written before the memo date, right?
MR. DECOSTE: The checks being written before the end of the work week, which is listed in the memo. Okay. And again, we don't know — I mean, Dawn Anderson, she could work one day a week.
MARY HULL: That's right.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. How many times out of these 44 checks did Ms. Magbanua cash the check — going on the posting date on the left — cash the check before the pay period ended?
MARY HULL: None.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. That would indicate to you that she's not getting the check until after the pay period?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: She could either be holding on to it and depositing it later, or she's not receiving it. Donna Adelson is coming in, doing a batch of checks, leaving them, and she's getting her checks after the pay period, right?
MARY HULL: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You don't know either way?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Who would be the best person to explain Donna Adelson's check-writing practices?
MARY HULL: Donna Adelson.
MR. DECOSTE: You, having worked at the state level and the federal level, you understand that the government can subpoena her to get up on that stand and answer questions to this jury, correct?
MARY HULL: They could, and she could explain why checks were written in a certain way.
MR. DECOSTE: Yeah, and shed light on all of this.
MR. DECOSTE: If we were to go October 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, and it starts on the 20th and it goes to the 30th — that'll give 31st, first, second, third. There are a couple of days that are in between there, correct?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. You don't know whether Ms. Magbanua had taken a couple of days while the surgery was taken, which would explain why there is that greater gap in between the pay periods there. And you also don't know why that memo line was kept blank, do you? You don't know what Ms. Magbanua's work hours were at the Adelson Institute?
MARY HULL: I do not.
MR. DECOSTE: Or what her work actually was?
MARY HULL: That's true. I do not.
MR. DECOSTE: The fact that the memo line is clear could be an indication that she's working different days or that that schedule is altered during that time, correct?
MARY HULL: Could be.
MR. DECOSTE: You just don't know.
MARY HULL: That's right.
MR. DECOSTE: The theory here is that, if you know, the government's theory here is that this was free money for having helped with the murder, right?
MARY HULL: I'm not really gonna comment on their theory, I don't know.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay, well, you were asked a question on direct examination of a flight that Charlie Adelson paid for Ms. Magbanua, right?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: All right, and in review of Charlie Adelson's iCloud data, have you seen the messages where Ms. Magbanua pays him back for that?
MARY HULL: I don't recall seeing that.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. Now, you've also gone through Ms. Magbanua's Bank of America accounts. I have no doubt that you've gone through every single line.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Right? And you figured out all the amounts.
MR. DECOSTE: One second, Your Honor.
MR. DECOSTE: One brief moment, Your Honor
JUDGE WHEELER: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, I'll show you one page on one of the statements. You know what that is, right?
MARY HULL: Yes, it's Ms. Magbanua's Bank of America account 6984.
MR. DECOSTE: And it's one page out of an entire statement with transactions from Ms. Magbanua?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: And do you know what that is because you painstakingly went over every transaction over the years?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: And that is in the same or substantively through the same condition that it was in the last time you saw?
MARY HULL: I believe so.
MR. DECOSTE: Defense, August, pre-marked as Defense 20, is Defense 20.
JUDGE WHEELER: Any objection?
JUDGE WHEELER: It's admitted as Defense Exhibit 20.
MR. DECOSTE: So Ms. Hull, the thought was that the flight was a gift, right?
MARY HULL: I cannot say. It just shows the charge for it.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. Do you agree with me that Ms. Magbanua was getting dental work done and being charged by the Adelson Institute of Dental — that she didn't get any stuff for free?
JUDGE WHEELER: That's sustained. That's sustained.
MR. DECOSTE: Did Ms. Magbanua pay the Adelson Institute for some procedure?
MARY HULL: It appears so, yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Would that indicate to you that it is free or paid for?
MARY HULL: It was paid for.
MR. DECOSTE: You were asked questions on your direct examination by Ms. Dugan, and you made a comment about a statement by Ms. Magbanua, right?
MARY HULL: What statement?
MR. DECOSTE: So you said you reviewed Ms. Magbanua's statement, right — testimony?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: And you were asked a specific portion of that, correct?
MARY HULL: Could you clarify what we're referring to?
MR. DECOSTE: All right, so on direct examination you talked about a statement by Ms. Magbanua that you reviewed.
MR. DECOSTE: Remember that?
MARY HULL: I don't — are you talking about her testimony?
MR. DECOSTE: Correct.
MARY HULL: Um, I don't think I reviewed any of her specific testimony.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay, so did I mishear on direct examination when you said that?
MARY HULL: I don't remember ever saying —
MR. DECOSTE: All right, have you reviewed those statements?
MARY HULL: No.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. Do you know they exist, right? I know she was testifying last time at this first trial and Ms. Cappleman was asking her questions, right?
MARY HULL: I believe it was about four hours long. I was under rule — I couldn't watch it.
MR. DECOSTE: Understood. Fair enough. Thank you, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: Redirect.
MS. DUGAN: I was asking you about —
MARY HULL: Yeah, I don't —
MS. DUGAN: Ma'am? It was the bank's statement, not her statement.
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: I just want to be clear. He asked you about a payment from her account to the Adelson Institute. Do you know what doctor she saw at the Adelson Institute in January 2015, the same day as that payment — or which dentist she saw?
MARY HULL: No, I don't.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, would it refresh your recollection to see her discussing which dentists she saw?
MARY HULL: Sure.
MR. DECOSTE: Ms. Dugan, would you show it to us?
MR. DECOSTE: I would ask that you use the full one.
MARY HULL: Does that correspond to the same date?
MARY HULL: Okay.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Does that help refresh any recollection about what dentists she may have seen that day?
MARY HULL: According to those records, it says she saw Mr. Adelson, Harvey.
MS. DUGAN: Harvey Adelson, the father?
MARY HULL: Harvey Adelson.
MS. DUGAN: All right. While we're on the topic of Adelson Institute, I'll just ask this.
MS. DUGAN: As to Donna Adelson, you said you're familiar with the fact that the state can subpoena witnesses. Are you familiar with the fact that people that are suspected of crimes also have a Fifth Amendment right to remain silent?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, Your Honor.
MR. DECOSTE: Sidebar.
JUDGE WHEELER: Objection is sustained. The question will not be permitted. Move on to the next question.
MS. DUGAN: Yes, sir. Would Adelson Institute employees like Erica Johnson or Clariza Lebredo, if they were asked about Donna Adelson's check-writing practices, whether she wrote sequential checks — is that something that could possibly give us insight into that?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: You said the records from Adelson Institute did not detail the hours, any hours that Katherine Magbanua worked or what her job was. Was the response from Adelson Institute sparse in comparison to responses you've received in analysis for businesses in the past?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: The defense showed you something in the iCloud where they were discussing the Lexus. Was there anything in the bank records that would indicate a payment from Katherine Magbanua or any of the Adelsons for this Lexus?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Defense showed you this.
MS. DUGAN: That's, that's, that's mine.
MS. DUGAN: It could still be up there.
MS. DUGAN: It's the one that doesn't have SEO next to it. I got it here somewhere. Or it still may be up there. I'll look.
MS. DUGAN: But basically, the defense showed you an employment timeline that you made a couple of years ago. And on that employment timeline — thank you — there was some information on this employment timeline, or there's additional information on the current employee timeline than on the prior employee timeline, right?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Do we have more bank records now than we had in 2019 in this case?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So your employment timeline now reflects the employment, the additional bank records we have, any additional payments that she had from these businesses or other businesses from the additional months of records we got from January to July of 2013?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, Your Honor. Mischaracterization of the cross-examination.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled. You can answer.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: So one of the reasons the employee timeline is different is because of the additional bank records that we received.
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. He also asked you about a payment that you were able to attribute to Jerome Obed that you originally had as an unknown source of income. You said it was a — you say it was a Bancorp payment?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: So it was a payment from a bank called Bancorp?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: And at the time in 2019, you didn't know exactly what that was. You put it as an unknown source of income in your pie chart?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. You put it as a source of income — it wasn't cash, it was a source of income that was deposited in her account, you just didn't know where it was from. I believe you elicited Bancorp.
MARY HULL: Bancorp.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, thank you. Bancorp. But then you were able to dig deeper and see it was actually a payment from Jerome Obed's office?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: So you added that to your employee timeline as well?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. So you found what was basically an income source that you weren't sure about, you found where it was a legitimate source of income, and you listed it as such?
MARY HULL: That's correct.
MS. DUGAN: Okay, which is kind of in her favor.
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Yes. Also in the employee timeline, the defense asked you about, you know, it doesn't reflect if she was working in a job where she only earned cash at a nightclub.
MS. DUGAN: So if a nightclub like, let's say, Hollywood Live — do you even have any knowledge of Hollywood Live, what that is? If Hollywood Live is an all-cash business, is that something that you would be able to track on your employment timeline?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, Your Honor. Speculation.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
MS. DUGAN: If Hollywood Live is an all-cash business, is that something you would be able to track in your employment timeline based on the bank records?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: If Katherine Magbanua worked at Hollywood Live prior to July 2014, would she be working —
MARY HULL: No, no.
MS. DUGAN: If she worked at Fate in 2015 — April, April through June of 2015 — when she received those bounced checks. Would that be after the August cash flight?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And they asked you about, could Dr. Obed have been paying her in cash? She was receiving checks — paychecks from Brower Dermatology, where Dr. Obed was her boss. Is that correct?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. And for Sigfredo Garcia — were his paychecks being deposited into her account in 2016?
MARY HULL: No, they were in his account.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. Um, if she took him to court for child support in 2015, would his financial assistance in 2016 be after that?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: And your 2019 employment timeline — you had an employment timeline like this with bar graphs, but you also had — there was also one that had a line graph and a murder line, the same as this one, right?
MARY HULL: Yeah.
MS. DUGAN: Okay. If the person receiving these Adelson Institute checks — the time period for the dates worked is in the memo line — would the person see that and could deposit it after that time period?
JUDGE WHEELER: Do you have an objection?
MR. DECOSTE: Speculation. That's speculation.
JUDGE WHEELER: That's sustained.
MS. DUGAN: The time period for the date worked is on each check, though?
MARY HULL: Yes.
MS. DUGAN: Did you review Katherine Magbanua's tax filings?
MARY HULL: I did.
MS. DUGAN: Was there any indication in her tax filings in 2013, 2014, 2015 where she claimed any employment at any bars, restaurants, clubs?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: Did she report any cash tips on her tax returns?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: If you were hired by the defense instead of the state, would your analysis be any different of these bank records and employment records?
MARY HULL: No.
MS. DUGAN: That's all.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Can we excuse the witness?
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. You're excused, ma'am. Thank you.