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Garcia–Magbanua transcript transcript Mary Hull — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross - Day 6 - Garcia–Magbanua Forensic accountant Mary Hull completed her direct examination, cross-examinations by both defense teams, and redirect covering financial flows between the Adelson family and Katherine Magbanua, Garcia and Rivera vehicle purchases after the murder, and the Adelson Institute employment records. Rulings addressed a privacy issue over Magbanua's Social Security number broadcast during a live stream, admissibility of defense text-message exhibits, and a late-disclosed FHP protocol discovery dispute. Georgia CapplemanAnna NorrisChristopher DeCosteSaam ZangenehJames C. HankinsonMary HullMs. NorrisJudge HankinsonCourt ClerkMary HullMr. ZangenehMr. DeCosteBailiffMs. Capplemandirectproceduralcrossredirectrecross
Garcia–Magbanua / Day 6 / October 4, 2019
3 pages · 3 witnesses · 3,020 lines
Forensic accountant Mary Hull completed her direct examination, cross-examinations by both defense teams, and redirect covering financial flows between the Adelson family and Katherine Magbanua, Garcia and Rivera vehicle purchases after the murder, and the Adelson Institute employment records. Rulings addressed a privacy issue over Magbanua's Social Security number broadcast during a live stream, admissibility of defense text-message exhibits, and a late-disclosed FHP protocol discovery dispute.
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DirectCrossRedirectRecross

Mary Hull — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross

Anna Norris Christopher DeCoste Saam Zangeneh Mary Hull
1,850 lines
Proceedings
Direct 1 Mary Hull - Direct Line 1
Procedural 1 Magbanua Employment-Record Exhibit and Privacy Rulings Line 607
Procedural 2 FHP Protocol Discovery Dispute and Scheduling Line 640
Direct 2 Mary Hull - Direct (Part 2) Line 665
Cross 1 Mary Hull - Cross Line 1061
Cross 2 Mary Hull - Cross Line 1203
Procedural 3 Magbanua Text-Message Exhibit Rulings Line 1550
Cross 3 Mary Hull - Cross (Part 2) Line 1584
Redirect Mary Hull - Redirect Line 1670
Recross Mary Hull - Recross Line 1828
Direct 1 Direct 1 Mary Hull Anna Norris
1 2:22:45

MS. NORRIS: The State calls Mary Hull.

2 2:23:31

JUDGE HANKINSON: Come on up here, please.

3 2:23:42

JUDGE HANKINSON: Face the clerk and raise your right hand to be sworn, please.

4 2:23:46

COURT CLERK: Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give today in this case will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

5 2:23:46

MARY HULL: I do.

6 2:23:51

JUDGE HANKINSON: Have a seat. Slide up the microphone, please, ma'am.

7 2:24:04

JUDGE HANKINSON: You may proceed.

8 2:24:05

MS. NORRIS: Thank you, Judge. Good morning.

9 2:24:07

MARY HULL: Good morning.

10 2:24:07

MS. NORRIS: Can you please introduce yourself to the jury and spell your first and your last name?

11 2:24:11

MARY HULL: Sure. Good morning. My name is Mary Hull.

12 2:24:14

MARY HULL: H-U-L-L.

13 2:24:17

MS. NORRIS: How are you employed, Ms. Hull?

14 2:24:19

MARY HULL: I'm employed with the Attorney General's Office in the Consumer Protection Division.

15 2:24:24

MS. NORRIS: What is your current role at the Attorney General's Office?

16 2:24:27

MARY HULL: Financial investigator.

17 2:24:29

MS. NORRIS: How were you employed back in the summer of 2016?

18 2:24:32

MARY HULL: I worked for the Department of Financial Services in the Office of Fiscal Integrity.

19 2:24:32

MS. NORRIS: And inside the Office of Fiscal Integrity, what did you do?

20 2:24:43

MARY HULL: I was a criminal financial investigator.

21 2:24:46

MS. NORRIS: What does that mean?

22 2:24:49

MARY HULL: We investigated all fraud, waste, and abuse for all state funds.

23 2:24:58

MS. NORRIS: In your current position at the Attorney General's Office, what are your duties exactly?

24 2:25:04

MARY HULL: We handle more civil. I do have some dual criminal cases, but we cover the Florida deceptive and unfair trade practices statute.

25 2:25:16

MS. NORRIS: What's your educational background?

26 2:25:18

MARY HULL: I have a Bachelor of Science in finance from Florida State University.

27 2:25:23

MS. NORRIS: Do you have any minors?

28 2:25:27

MARY HULL: Yeah, my major was finance, my minor was accounting.

29 2:25:30

MS. NORRIS: Do you have any experience in analyzing financial data?

30 2:25:34

MARY HULL: Yes. I have 15 years of financial experience as an auditor and a financial investigator for the State of Florida.

31 2:25:41

MS. NORRIS: Do you have any investigative experience in white-collar crime?

32 2:25:44

MARY HULL: Yes. I have seven years of conducting white-collar crime investigations that include money laundering, contract fraud, counterfeiting, embezzlement, and identity theft.

33 2:25:58

MS. NORRIS: And have you worked both with federal and state authorities investigating multi-agency complex financial investigations?

34 2:26:06

MARY HULL: I have. I've worked numerous complex multi-agency financial investigations.

35 2:26:11

MS. NORRIS: And what's your area of expertise?

36 2:26:13

MARY HULL: My specialty is forensic accounting.

37 2:26:16

MS. NORRIS: What is forensic accounting?

38 2:26:18

MARY HULL: It's the very detailed analysis of financial records and data to be used as evidence in a court of law.

39 2:26:24

MS. NORRIS: Do you have any specialized training or certifications to be able to do forensic accounting?

40 2:26:29

MARY HULL: Yes. I'm a certified fraud examiner in good standing with the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners.

41 2:26:37

MS. NORRIS: Above and beyond that, did you receive any type of in-service on-the-job training?

42 2:26:42

MARY HULL: Yes. As a criminal investigator, I had additional in-service training to include search and seizure requirements, the handling of evidence, chain of custody requirements, and the procedures for interviewing witnesses.

43 2:26:54

MS. NORRIS: Have you ever testified in court as to your expertise in forensic accounting?

44 2:27:01

MS. NORRIS: Approximately how many times?

45 2:27:02

MARY HULL: Approximately 18 times.

46 2:27:04

MS. NORRIS: At this time the State tenders.

47 2:27:06

JUDGE HANKINSON: Voir dire?

48 2:27:07

MR. ZANGENEH: None for Mr. Garcia.

49 2:27:10

MR. DECOSTE: None, Your Honor.

50 2:27:11

JUDGE HANKINSON: All right, you may proceed.

51 2:27:12

MS. NORRIS: Thank you. And eventually you became involved in this particular murder investigation, is that right?

52 2:27:17

MARY HULL: I did.

53 2:27:19

MS. NORRIS: And what exactly were you asked to do?

54 2:27:22

MARY HULL: To look over all of the bank records and analysis, see if I can determine any associations between the subjects or the possible defendants.

55 2:27:30

MS. NORRIS: So you're looking for links or associations, or trying to see where the money went?

56 2:27:36

MARY HULL: Yes.

57 2:27:36

MS. NORRIS: Fair to say?

58 2:27:37

MARY HULL: Yeah, easy way to put it.

59 2:27:38

MS. NORRIS: Okay. And what type of records did you review in trying to analyze the financial data in this case?

60 2:27:45

MARY HULL: Mostly it was bank records, but I did have other records available to me.

61 2:27:50

MS. NORRIS: What type of — or whose bank records did you have?

62 2:27:50

MARY HULL: I reviewed all of the Adelsons' bank records, Katie Magbanua's records, Luis Rivera, and Sigfredo Garcia.

63 2:28:06

MS. NORRIS: Now, for the Adelsons — when you say the Adelsons, did you review Harvey Adelson's financial records?

64 2:28:12

MARY HULL: Yes.

65 2:28:13

MS. NORRIS: Donna Adelson?

66 2:28:14

MARY HULL: Yes.

67 2:28:15

MS. NORRIS: Wendi Adelson?

68 2:28:16

MARY HULL: Yes.

69 2:28:16

MS. NORRIS: Charlie Adelson?

70 2:28:17

MARY HULL: Yes.

71 2:28:18

MS. NORRIS: What about any Adelson businesses?

72 2:28:20

MARY HULL: There was numerous Adelson businesses.

73 2:28:25

MS. NORRIS: Particularly, did you also look at the Adelson Institute?

74 2:28:28

MARY HULL: Yes.

75 2:28:29

MS. NORRIS: Business records or bank records?

76 2:28:31

MARY HULL: Yes.

77 2:28:31

MS. NORRIS: And what was the range of records that you had with Adelson Institute?

78 2:28:35

MARY HULL: I believe it was 2013 to the end of 2016.

79 2:28:43

MS. NORRIS: For Charlie Adelson — what particular bank records did you look at for him?

80 2:28:48

MARY HULL: I may have to refer to my notes to be specific, but just generally all of his business accounts and his personal accounts.

81 2:28:55

MS. NORRIS: And what primary personal account did you rely on?

82 2:28:55

MARY HULL: He had a Regions account. That was his primary account.

83 2:29:02

MS. NORRIS: Did he also have a credit card account that you examined?

84 2:29:04

MARY HULL: Yes.

85 2:29:05

MS. NORRIS: What credit card account was that?

86 2:29:07

MARY HULL: He had both American Express and a Capital One.

87 2:29:07

MS. NORRIS: How many different accounts for the Adelsons as a whole did you review?

88 2:29:07

MARY HULL: They had — there was 13 bank accounts, two credit card accounts, but there was numerous investment accounts that I partially reviewed.

89 2:29:27

MS. NORRIS: And why didn't you fully review the investment accounts of the Adelsons?

90 2:29:27

MARY HULL: I actually changed jobs between Department of Financial Services and the Attorney General, and that limited my ability to investigate it.

91 2:29:42

MARY HULL: The accounts were — there was 18 different investment accounts, and the return on that was 10,000 pages of information.

92 2:29:50

MS. NORRIS: Can you move your microphone a little bit, or talk a little louder? I'm having trouble hearing you. I'm sorry.

93 2:29:54

MARY HULL: Sorry.

94 2:29:54

MS. NORRIS: Okay. So you mentioned that they had 18 different investment accounts — and how many pages worth of accounts?

95 2:30:02

MARY HULL: The investment accounts — 10,000 pages.

96 2:30:06

MS. NORRIS: So you didn't get a chance to go through all of that, correct?

97 2:30:11

MS. NORRIS: For Mr. Luis Rivera.

98 2:30:13

MS. NORRIS: How many accounts did he have, these bank accounts that you reviewed?

99 2:30:17

MARY HULL: Um, he had a checking and a savings account.

100 2:30:19

MS. NORRIS: With which company?

101 2:30:24

MS. NORRIS: I'll strike that. I know I'm asking you a lot of detailed questions.

102 2:30:29

MS. NORRIS: Mr. Garcia — what type of records did you review for Mr. Garcia?

103 2:30:35

MARY HULL: He also had a checking and a savings account.

104 2:30:38

MS. NORRIS: Did he also have some employment records that you reviewed?

105 2:30:40

MARY HULL: I did.

106 2:30:41

MS. NORRIS: From where?

107 2:30:42

MARY HULL: Coastal Masonry.

108 2:30:45

MS. NORRIS: Ms. Magbanua — what types of accounts did you review for her?

109 2:30:50

MARY HULL: Bank accounts and a couple of credit cards.

110 2:30:50

MS. NORRIS: You mentioned that in addition to — sort of primarily bank records, account records — but you reviewed some additional stuff, you said. Did you review Ms. Magbanua's income tax filings?

111 2:30:50

MARY HULL: I did.

112 2:31:09

MS. NORRIS: Are you aware that in this case there was a subpoena issued to the Adelson Institute, and they provided records in response to the request for any employment records associated with Katherine Magbanua?

113 2:31:21

MARY HULL: I did.

114 2:31:21

MS. NORRIS: Did you review that?

115 2:31:22

MARY HULL: I did.

116 2:31:24

MS. NORRIS: Did you review any records related to Ms. Magbanua's breast augmentation by Dr. Roudner?

117 2:31:24

MARY HULL: Roudner? Roudner, yes.

118 2:31:33

MS. NORRIS: Did you review any brow or dermatology records?

119 2:31:36

MARY HULL: Yes.

120 2:31:44

MS. NORRIS: What about the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles? Did you use that in your investigation to do analysis on your following of the money?

121 2:31:52

MARY HULL: It's one of the areas I look when I'm doing a financial investigation. I look for assets that have been purchased or acquired, as just a matter of rule — see if they bought land or homes or cars. So yes, I did look.

122 2:32:06

MS. NORRIS: You did look at DHSMV, right?

123 2:32:08

MARY HULL: Yes.

124 2:32:08

MS. NORRIS: And finally, did you have access to and review Charlie Adelson's iCloud contents?

125 2:32:15

MARY HULL: I did.

126 2:32:44

MS. NORRIS: First — First, I'm showing you what's already in evidence as State's Exhibit 144.

127 2:32:48

MS. NORRIS: Do you recognize that disc?

128 2:32:49

MARY HULL: I do.

129 2:32:50

MS. NORRIS: And what does it contain?

130 2:32:51

MARY HULL: Luis Rivera's bank records.

131 2:32:53

MS. NORRIS: And is that your signature on the CD?

132 2:32:54

MARY HULL: It is.

133 2:32:55

MS. NORRIS: Is that indicating that you —

134 2:32:57

MARY HULL: I reviewed the file.

135 2:33:01

MS. NORRIS: You said this was Luis Rivera's bank records, right?

136 2:33:03

MARY HULL: Yes.

137 2:33:04

MS. NORRIS: Now I want to show you what I've marked for identification as State's Exhibit 145.

138 2:33:09

MS. NORRIS: What does that disc contain?

139 2:33:11

MARY HULL: Luis — I'm sorry, Sigfredo Garcia's bank records.

140 2:33:15

MS. NORRIS: And are those fair and accurate records that you received for Sigfredo Garcia in this case pursuant to subpoena?

141 2:33:21

MARY HULL: Yes.

142 2:33:22

MS. NORRIS: All right. At this time I'd offer into evidence State's Exhibit 145.

143 2:33:26

JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay.

144 2:33:35

MS. NORRIS: And I should note, on 145 these bank records contain certificates of authenticity from the bank that these are in fact Mr. Garcia's records.

145 2:33:42

MARY HULL: They are.

146 2:33:42

MS. NORRIS: Now showing you State's Exhibit 146. Do you recognize that disc?

147 2:33:42

MARY HULL: I do.

148 2:33:42

MS. NORRIS: How do you recognize it?

149 2:33:42

MARY HULL: Um, it has my initials on it.

150 2:33:42

MS. NORRIS: And what does it contain?

151 2:33:42

MARY HULL: Ms. Magbanua's Bank of America bank records.

152 2:33:42

MS. NORRIS: Are these the records you reviewed?

153 2:33:42

MARY HULL: They are.

154 2:33:42

MS. NORRIS: And do they too contain a certificate of authenticity from the banking institutions?

155 2:33:42

MARY HULL: They do.

156 2:33:42

MS. NORRIS: The State offers State's Exhibit 146 at this time.

157 2:34:06

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection to 146?

158 2:34:08

MR. ZANGENEH: No judge.

159 2:34:09

MR. DECOSTE: No objection.

160 2:34:10

JUDGE HANKINSON: Be admitted.

161 2:34:12

MS. NORRIS: I'm showing you State's Exhibit 147. Do you recognize that disc?

162 2:34:16

MARY HULL: I do.

163 2:34:16

MS. NORRIS: What does it contain?

164 2:34:16

MARY HULL: It contains Ms. Magbanua's Chase Bank records.

165 2:34:16

MS. NORRIS: Do you recognize it because of your initial on the disc?

166 2:34:18

MARY HULL: I do.

167 2:34:18

MS. NORRIS: And are these the records that you reviewed for Ms. Magbanua's Chase records?

168 2:34:18

MARY HULL: Yes.

169 2:34:29

MS. NORRIS: And does it too contain that certificate of authenticity from Chase?

170 2:34:32

MARY HULL: It does.

171 2:34:33

MS. NORRIS: The State offers State's Exhibit 147 at this time.

172 2:34:36

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection?

173 2:34:37

MR. ZANGENEH: No, Judge.

174 2:34:38

MR. DECOSTE: No objection.

175 2:34:39

JUDGE HANKINSON: Be admitted.

176 2:34:41

MS. NORRIS: I'm showing you State's Exhibit 148. Do you recognize that?

177 2:34:45

MARY HULL: I do.

178 2:34:45

MS. NORRIS: Do you recognize it because you initialed the disc?

179 2:34:48

MARY HULL: I initialed the disc, and it's the Adelson Institute's Regions Bank records.

180 2:34:52

MS. NORRIS: And are those the records with the certificate of authenticity from Regions Bank that you reviewed in this case?

181 2:34:59

MARY HULL: Yes.

182 2:35:00

MS. NORRIS: I'd offer State's Exhibit 148 at this time.

183 2:35:03

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection? Be admitted.

184 2:35:08

MS. NORRIS: Finally, I'm showing you what I've marked for identification as State's Exhibit 149.

185 2:35:14

MS. NORRIS: Do you recognize that exhibit?

186 2:35:17

MARY HULL: I do.

187 2:35:25

MARY HULL: Charlie Adelson's Amex, American Express records.

188 2:35:29

MS. NORRIS: And you initialed that CD as well?

189 2:35:31

MARY HULL: I did.

190 2:35:32

MS. NORRIS: And do those also contain a certificate of authenticity?

191 2:35:34

MARY HULL: They do.

192 2:35:35

MS. NORRIS: And are these records part of the records for Mr. Adelson that you relied upon in this case?

193 2:35:39

MARY HULL: Yes.

194 2:35:40

MS. NORRIS: State offers State's Exhibit 149 at this time.

195 2:36:34

MS. NORRIS: Now.

196 2:36:40

MS. NORRIS: I'm showing you State's Exhibit 87.

197 2:36:43

MS. NORRIS: What is that document?

198 2:36:45

MARY HULL: This was part of the subpoena response from the Adelson Institute for Katie Magbanua's paychecks.

199 2:36:51

MS. NORRIS: Is that the entire response from the Adelson Institute?

200 2:36:54

MARY HULL: I believe it is.

201 2:36:57

MARY HULL: Yes, that looks like the entire response.

202 2:37:00

MS. NORRIS: And does it contain a certificate or declaration of authenticity from the Adelson Institute itself?

203 2:37:06

MARY HULL: It does.

204 2:37:07

MS. NORRIS: And you relied on these records in preparing for your testimony today?

205 2:37:10

MARY HULL: Yes.

206 2:37:11

MS. NORRIS: The state would offer State's Exhibit 87 at this time.

207 2:37:14

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection?

208 2:37:15

MR. ZANGENEH: No, Judge.

209 2:37:16

MR. DECOSTE: No objection.

210 2:37:17

JUDGE HANKINSON: Be admitted.

211 2:37:18

MS. NORRIS: Now.

212 2:37:19

MS. NORRIS: I'm showing you what I've marked for identification as State's Exhibit 98. Do you recognize those records?

213 2:37:26

MARY HULL: Yes.

214 2:37:27

MS. NORRIS: What do you recognize them to be?

215 2:37:30

MARY HULL: Sigfredo Garcia's Coastal Masonry detailed earnings reports.

216 2:37:37

MS. NORRIS: And does this Exhibit 98 also contain a certificate or declaration of authenticity from Coastal Masonry?

217 2:37:44

MARY HULL: It does.

218 2:37:45

MS. NORRIS: And have you relied on these records as well?

219 2:37:47

MARY HULL: I do.

220 2:37:48

MS. NORRIS: At this time, I'd offer State's Exhibit 98.

221 2:37:50

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection?

222 2:37:51

MR. DECOSTE: No objection.

223 2:37:55

MS. NORRIS: I'm showing you what I've marked for identification as State's Exhibit 99.

224 2:37:59

MS. NORRIS: Do you recognize that?

225 2:38:00

MARY HULL: I do.

226 2:38:01

MS. NORRIS: And what is that?

227 2:38:03

MARY HULL: These are Dr. Rudner's records for the augmentation surgery.

228 2:38:10

MS. NORRIS: For Ms. Magbanua?

229 2:38:11

MARY HULL: Yes.

230 2:38:12

MS. NORRIS: And does that exhibit as well contain the certification of authenticity for the business records?

231 2:38:18

MARY HULL: It does.

232 2:38:18

MS. NORRIS: I'd offer State's Exhibit 99.

233 2:38:23

JUDGE HANKINSON: Be admitted.

234 2:38:25

MS. NORRIS: Finally, I'm showing you State's Exhibit 100. Do you recognize these records?

235 2:38:34

MARY HULL: They are Broward Dermatology's payroll summaries.

236 2:38:42

MS. NORRIS: Do you rely on those in your analysis?

237 2:38:44

MARY HULL: Yes.

238 2:38:44

MS. NORRIS: And they too contain the certificate of authenticity as a business record?

239 2:38:48

MARY HULL: They do.

240 2:38:49

MS. NORRIS: The state offers State's Exhibit 100.

241 2:38:51

JUDGE HANKINSON: Be admitted.

242 2:38:58

MS. NORRIS: Are you aware if there was ever a different financial analyst involved in this murder investigation?

243 2:39:04

MARY HULL: Yes.

244 2:39:04

MS. NORRIS: Are you aware if there was ever a different financial analyst involved in this murder — who is that?

245 2:39:06

MARY HULL: Her name is Penny Rose.

246 2:39:08

MS. NORRIS: Do you know where she's employed?

247 2:39:10

MARY HULL: She's with the FBI.

248 2:39:11

MS. NORRIS: And do you know where she resides?

249 2:39:14

MARY HULL: In Jacksonville.

250 2:39:15

MS. NORRIS: Do you know if she was as accessible in this case as you were?

251 2:39:18

MARY HULL: No, she lives in Jacksonville.

252 2:39:27

MS. NORRIS: You indicated that you looked at certain records from the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles in order to look at any assets or things purchased.

253 2:39:38

MS. NORRIS: Which type of — strike that. For which particular people were you looking at assets they may have come into possession of after the murder?

254 2:39:48

MARY HULL: Luis Rivera, Sigfredo Garcia, and Katherine Magbanua.

255 2:39:52

MS. NORRIS: Did you, in fact, get records for those three individuals?

256 2:40:02

MARY HULL: I did.

257 2:40:03

MS. NORRIS: May I approach, Your Honor?

258 2:40:04

JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.

259 2:40:10

MS. NORRIS: I'm showing you State's Exhibit 88. Do you recognize that document?

260 2:40:13

MARY HULL: I do.

261 2:40:14

MS. NORRIS: And what is it?

262 2:40:15

MARY HULL: It is the title for a black Lexus, titled to Katie Magbanua.

263 2:40:22

MS. NORRIS: Is this title certification from DMV a certified document?

264 2:40:30

MARY HULL: It is.

265 2:40:30

MS. NORRIS: All right. At this time, I'd offer State's Exhibit 88. Now I'm showing you State's Exhibit 101. Do you recognize these documents?

266 2:40:46

MARY HULL: Okay.

267 2:41:14

MARY HULL: It is the title history and the title for—

268 2:41:14

MS. NORRIS: Without timing the contents, to whom do these DHSMV records relate?

269 2:41:26

MARY HULL: Sigfredo Garcia.

270 2:41:27

MS. NORRIS: And are these records that you relied upon in your analysis?

271 2:41:30

MARY HULL: Yes.

272 2:41:30

MS. NORRIS: And are they certified by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles?

273 2:41:33

MARY HULL: They are.

274 2:41:34

MS. NORRIS: At this time, I'd offer into evidence State's Exhibit 101.

275 2:41:37

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection?

276 2:41:39

MR. DECOSTE: No, Your Honor.

277 2:41:40

JUDGE HANKINSON: It'll be admitted.

278 2:41:41

MS. NORRIS: Next, I'm showing you State's Exhibit 102 for identification.

279 2:41:47

MS. NORRIS: Do you recognize that?

280 2:41:56

MARY HULL: Yes, these are records for Sigfredo Garcia.

281 2:42:00

MS. NORRIS: Are these also records from DMV that you relied upon in this case?

282 2:42:04

MARY HULL: Yes.

283 2:42:04

MS. NORRIS: And are they all certified?

284 2:42:05

MARY HULL: Yes.

285 2:42:05

MS. NORRIS: The State offers Exhibit number 102 at this time.

286 2:42:11

MR. ZANGENEH: No objection.

287 2:42:15

MS. NORRIS: Now I'm showing you State's Exhibit 103 for identification. Do you recognize that?

288 2:42:24

MS. NORRIS: Did you say yes?

289 2:42:25

MARY HULL: Yes, I recognize it. I'm just trying to find the person.

290 2:43:03

MARY HULL: For Sigfredo Garcia.

291 2:43:05

MS. NORRIS: And are they also certified by the DMV?

292 2:43:08

MARY HULL: Yes, they are.

293 2:43:09

MS. NORRIS: And offering into evidence State's Exhibit 103 at this time.

294 2:43:13

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection?

295 2:43:14

MR. ZANGENEH: No objection.

296 2:43:15

MR. DECOSTE: No objection.

297 2:43:16

JUDGE HANKINSON: It'll be admitted.

298 2:43:28

MS. NORRIS: Finally, I want to show you what's marked as State's Exhibit 104.

299 2:43:30

MS. NORRIS: Do you recognize those, that document?

300 2:44:21

MARY HULL: Yes, for Luis Rivera.

301 2:44:22

MS. NORRIS: And these DMV records for Mr. Rivera, are they all certified by DMV?

302 2:44:27

MARY HULL: Yeah.

303 2:44:28

MS. NORRIS: And you relied upon them in your analysis?

304 2:44:31

MARY HULL: Yes.

305 2:44:31

MS. NORRIS: The State offers State's Exhibit 104.

306 2:44:36

MS. NORRIS: Have I got it? DMV.

307 2:44:54

MS. NORRIS: What, if any, vehicles did Sigfredo Garcia acquire after the homicide of Dan Markel on July 18, 2014?

308 2:45:02

MARY HULL: May I refer to some notes?

309 2:45:05

JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.

310 2:45:29

MARY HULL: Could you repeat the question again?

311 2:45:31

MS. NORRIS: Yes, I can.

312 2:45:32

MS. NORRIS: What, if any, vehicles did Sigfredo Garcia acquire after the murder of Dan Markel on July 18, 2014?

313 2:45:32

MARY HULL: Okay. Mr. Garcia purchased a blue Chevrolet Monte Carlo coupe July 26, 2014.

314 2:45:51

MARY HULL: He also purchased a yellow and black Honda racer, which I believe is a motorcycle, on August 22, 2014.

315 2:46:04

MARY HULL: He also purchased a gold Nissan Maxima sedan four-door on October 17, 2014.

316 2:46:12

MS. NORRIS: So from July 26, 2014 —

317 2:46:18

JUDGE HANKINSON: We don't need to repeat what she said.

318 2:46:23

MS. NORRIS: I want to ask about time period.

319 2:46:26

MS. NORRIS: Okay. So the purchases of those three vehicles by Mr. Garcia spanned what time period?

320 2:46:32

MARY HULL: Within four months of the murder.

321 2:46:35

MS. NORRIS: What, if any, vehicles did Luis Rivera acquire after the homicide?

322 2:46:44

MARY HULL: He purchased a yellow Suzuki motorcycle on July 28, 2014.

323 2:46:51

MARY HULL: He also purchased a green Toyota Camry sedan on July 31, 2014.

324 2:47:01

MS. NORRIS: What, if any, vehicles did Katherine Magbanua acquire after the murder?

325 2:47:01

MARY HULL: She acquired a black Lexus sedan four-door on January 23, 2016.

326 2:47:16

MS. NORRIS: Based on the records we just looked at for the Lexus, the title, does it indicate who owned the vehicle prior to Ms. Magbanua?

327 2:47:28

MARY HULL: Yes, that was Harvey Adelson.

328 2:47:39

MS. NORRIS: Did you look for any record of — in Ms. Magbanua's bank records, or anybody else's records, did you look for any record of payment from Katherine Magbanua for that Lexus?

329 2:47:52

MARY HULL: I did. I looked through all of her accounts to see if there was a check written, or even enough cash that had been withdrawn within a reasonable time frame that could have made the purchase. I also checked the deposit records for the Adelsons to see if any of them had a matching deposit that would have been the equivalent of the car that was purchased.

330 2:48:21

MS. NORRIS: Does the title indicate the amount that was supposedly paid for the Lexus?

331 2:48:24

MARY HULL: Yes, it was $1,700.

332 2:48:45

MS. NORRIS: So you indicated that you searched through records to find a corresponding withdrawal or check from Ms. Magbanua's accounts that could have been payment for that Lexus. What were your results?

333 2:48:56

MARY HULL: I could not find any record of a payment.

334 2:49:08

MS. NORRIS: Tell me about your analysis of Mr. Rivera's bank records.

335 2:49:12

MS. NORRIS: When you looked at those records, what kind of patterns or spending habits did you notice for Mr. Rivera?

336 2:49:19

MARY HULL: I did. I had the records for his Chase Bank account from May 14th to November 15th.

337 2:49:26

MARY HULL: He had a very distinctive pattern to his banking activities.

338 2:49:31

MARY HULL: He would be direct deposited weekly from his employment.

339 2:49:37

MARY HULL: Almost immediately, nearly the whole amount of his paycheck would be withdrawn in cash.

340 2:49:45

MARY HULL: This caused the auto payments that he had set up through the account to add a number of overdraft charges.

341 2:49:53

MARY HULL: There were so many overdraft charges in a month that they actually equated to one paycheck.

342 2:50:01

MARY HULL: I did notice that there was a distinctive change in the pattern of his banking activity after the murder.

343 2:50:09

MS. NORRIS: How so?

344 2:50:11

MARY HULL: Because after the change he had very little cash withdrawals and no overdraft payments.

345 2:50:18

MARY HULL: He left his paychecks in there to pay his automated charges, but that only lasted a couple of months. The last large withdrawal would have been July of 2014, and then not again until September 19 — I'm sorry, September 10, 2014. That banking pattern resumed with the large cash withdrawals, and the overdraft charges resumed in November and continued on to the end of the bank records, that went another year.

346 2:50:54

MS. NORRIS: So did you indicate that — when you say large cash withdrawals, did you indicate that those were always after a direct deposit of a paycheck?

347 2:51:03

MARY HULL: Yes. As soon as the direct deposit hit his account, he pulled it out. If he had a $500 check that came in, he would pull $400 out in cash. He operated primarily in cash.

348 2:51:13

MS. NORRIS: And then after that withdrawal would be when the overdraft fees would — or overdrafts would begin happening.

349 2:51:20

MS. NORRIS: You said that the last large withdrawal for Mr. Rivera was on what date in July 2014?

350 2:51:27

MARY HULL: Two days before the murder, July 16, 2014.

351 2:51:30

MS. NORRIS: And is that the time period that began his failure to withdraw his direct deposit immediately?

352 2:51:38

MARY HULL: Correct.

353 2:51:39

MS. NORRIS: And that went back to old habits on what date?

354 2:51:45

MARY HULL: The first of November.

355 2:51:48

MS. NORRIS: What would that be indicative of, from July 16, 2014 through November of 2014?

356 2:51:55

MARY HULL: It signifies to me that he had an additional source of cash and he was not relying on his payroll to provide cash for himself.

357 2:52:06

MS. NORRIS: And you indicated you analyzed Sigfredo Garcia's bank accounts.

358 2:52:11

MARY HULL: I did.

359 2:52:12

MS. NORRIS: What time period — I believe you said it was checking and savings — what time period did you have for Mr. Garcia's bank records?

360 2:52:19

MARY HULL: Yes, the only available bank records were from June of '15 to July of '16.

361 2:52:24

MS. NORRIS: So June 2015?

362 2:52:27

MARY HULL: June 2015.

363 2:52:29

MS. NORRIS: Why did you — did you not have any bank records for the time period of the homicide in July of 2014?

364 2:52:35

MARY HULL: The bank records were subpoenaed. We did have one identified, but because the account was closed there were no responsive documents from the bank.

365 2:52:43

MS. NORRIS: What about the — I forget what you called it — but the records from Coastal Masonry, what information did those give you?

366 2:52:54

MARY HULL: You said for Garcia?

367 2:52:56

MS. NORRIS: Yes, sir.

368 2:53:04

MARY HULL: They both worked there.

369 2:53:06

MS. NORRIS: Okay. Okay, but the records that we — I'm asking you about the Coastal Masonry records for Sigfredo Garcia.

370 2:53:11

MARY HULL: Yes, but his records indicated that he worked sporadically for them. They did go back to 2009, but they would be a couple of months at a time.

371 2:53:23

MARY HULL: Did not show a steady work history.

372 2:53:25

MS. NORRIS: How many — and do the Coastal Masonry records for Mr. Garcia include records of all the payments made by that company to Mr. Garcia for the year 2014?

373 2:53:36

MARY HULL: Yes.

374 2:53:37

MS. NORRIS: And how many paychecks did he receive from Coastal Masonry in 2014?

375 2:53:42

MARY HULL: I did not actually make that calculation.

376 2:53:47

MS. NORRIS: Do you have any —

377 2:54:07

JUDGE HANKINSON: We're about due for a break, let's take ten minutes.

378 2:54:11
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379 3:06:45

MARY HULL: My analytical tool that I developed allows me to put all of the banking information on an Excel spreadsheet that I've developed myself.

380 3:06:57

MARY HULL: It wasn't something I learned in a finance class or an accounting class.

381 3:07:01

MARY HULL: It's a tool that I use to analyze all of the records, and then I can summarize them to a small summary of the activity.

382 3:07:11

MS. NORRIS: And where are you getting the data? What type of program are you using?

383 3:07:16

MARY HULL: It's an Excel spreadsheet.

384 3:07:17

MS. NORRIS: And where are you getting the data that you put into that Excel spreadsheet?

385 3:07:21

MARY HULL: From the bank statements.

386 3:07:25

MS. NORRIS: May I approach?

387 3:07:32

MS. NORRIS: I'm showing you what I've marked for identification as State's Exhibit 150. Do you recognize that CD?

388 3:07:37

MARY HULL: I do.

389 3:07:38

MS. NORRIS: What does it contain?

390 3:07:39

MARY HULL: It contains my analysis for the multiple bank accounts for Katie Magbanua.

391 3:07:45

MS. NORRIS: And is that your signature on the disc confirming that those are — that's the analysis that you did on her banking records?

392 3:07:51

MARY HULL: It is.

393 3:07:52

MS. NORRIS: And are the records and entries and data on that disc accurate based on her bank records?

394 3:07:59

MARY HULL: Yes.

395 3:07:59

MS. NORRIS: This time I'd offer State's Exhibit 150.

396 3:10:55

MS. NORRIS: If I'm looking at the tab starting, should I start from right and work my way left?

397 3:11:00

MARY HULL: Start with the farthest right one, but if you could use the bar to move it to the front, to the far left.

398 3:11:18

MS. NORRIS: What data is contained in this particular tab of this Excel workbook?

399 3:11:18

MARY HULL: Okay, this is the Katie Magbanua Bank of America savings account 7053. When I schedule out the accounts, every action that happens on the bank statement is reflected as a line item. There's also, on the farthest left, a number that shows the sequence that they were put into the spreadsheet. And this sequence in this tab reflects exactly as it's reflected on the bank statement.

400 3:12:00

MARY HULL: Many times the bank records will have deposits, withdrawals, and other charges in different blocks, and so they're not necessarily all in date order.

401 3:12:10

MARY HULL: But this reflects it so that if you pulled up any particular bank statement, you would see them in that same order.

402 3:12:17

MARY HULL: At the beginning, the very top, I start with a beginning balance. Every item is put in — it's either a deposit or withdrawal — and then at the very bottom you'll notice I have a sequence for verifying my data by a checkbox. It's a simple calculation: your beginning balance, your withdrawals, your deposits, and your ending balance will match what's left in the account.

403 3:12:43

MS. NORRIS: And is that your checkbox at the bottom, to make sure that you've done your math correctly?

404 3:12:48

MARY HULL: Yes.

405 3:12:48

MS. NORRIS: That's the savings account.

406 3:12:53

MARY HULL: That was the savings account.

407 3:12:55

MS. NORRIS: Did you perform the same work for Katherine Magbanua's checking account with Bank of America?

408 3:13:03

MARY HULL: Yes.

409 3:13:13

MS. NORRIS: Can you scroll through and see the same type of data entries there?

410 3:13:15

MARY HULL: Yep.

411 3:13:39

MS. NORRIS: Can you again check your math at the conclusion of the worksheet to make sure every cell is matching that?

412 3:13:45

MARY HULL: Right. Every penny is accounted for.

413 3:14:02

MS. NORRIS: Without going through them, did you do the exact same thing for the Chase savings account as well as the Chase checking account?

414 3:14:07

MARY HULL: I did.

415 3:14:14

MS. NORRIS: What are the next four tabs?

416 3:14:16

MARY HULL: Okay, if you'll go to the farthest right, there will be a tab that has 2013-2016 — that one. This is when I have all the accounts footed out and calculated correctly. I combine them and then I sort by date order. This gives me — and I do a running balance for all four accounts, in this case — that gives me the best idea of what is going on in the account, what's happening that day, so I can see deposits that were made on that day, withdrawals that were made on that day. It gives me the best tool for analyzing the actions or the intentions that someone has in their accounts.

417 3:15:04

MS. NORRIS: Did you also separate out by year — 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016?

418 3:15:13

MARY HULL: Yes. From this set, this shows everything — all transactions, every activity in all four accounts. Then I go through and I sort by year and split them out so that you can have numbers broken down by year.

419 3:15:30

MARY HULL: And from the sort, I will add in — there's the — there's also a set of calculations to show my numbers are correct. But in this case, the beginning balance has the four different accounts and the ending balance has four different accounts. But still it adds up and balances out, so I can show that all monies are accounted for.

420 3:15:30

MS. NORRIS: Go to one — go to one of the sorts.

421 3:15:51

MARY HULL: Okay.

422 3:15:51

MS. NORRIS: If you go to the — are you at the very top?

423 3:15:51

MARY HULL: Yes. Okay, so then when I do the sort, I come out with — by categories. I always put the deposits at the top and the withdrawals at the bottom, so I can see how much money was in the accounts and how much was used. So each one is broken up into what particular category they fall into, so that I can put all of the gas charges and convenience stores all into one category and I can summarize it easily. So —

424 3:16:38

MS. NORRIS: For example, all of the online banking transfers are in one section?

425 3:16:51

MARY HULL: Yes. These are all the sources of income she had, that bar represents — represents a change between the deposits. Now we're looking at withdrawals.

426 3:16:56

MS. NORRIS: Is there anything else we need to look at on the year sorts?

427 3:17:00

MARY HULL: No.

428 3:17:01

MS. NORRIS: And finally, the summary tab.

429 3:17:05

MARY HULL: Yes. From all of the sorting, I go through and I put it onto one simplified summary that shows how the money came in and how the money was spent.

430 3:17:17

MARY HULL: And again, I have the check box at the bottom to show my totals are correct.

431 3:17:17

MS. NORRIS: Is it correct that you prepared some summaries in this particular case?

432 3:17:18

MARY HULL: I did.

433 3:17:18

MS. NORRIS: Are all of the summaries that we're going to talk about based on this financial data that you analyzed?

434 3:17:18

MARY HULL: Yes.

435 3:17:46

MS. NORRIS: You recognize that?

436 3:17:52

MARY HULL: I did.

437 3:17:53

MS. NORRIS: What is that?

438 3:17:53

MARY HULL: It is the top — income, the deposits that were made into her four accounts — and then the withdrawals, and the bottom is my check box.

439 3:17:53

MS. NORRIS: Now, is this document in State's 106 the exact same as that summary chart in the Excel spreadsheet?

440 3:18:13

MARY HULL: It is.

441 3:18:14

MS. NORRIS: Your Honor, I offer this in evidence as State's 106 at this time.

442 3:18:14
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443 3:24:51

MS. NORRIS: Was the document State's 106 admitted, Your Honor?

444 3:24:54

JUDGE HANKINSON: To be admitted. Subject to my ruling.

445 3:25:16

MS. NORRIS: Well, is this — I think I mentioned this earlier — but the summary tab on the printed copy, that's a little in the computer?

446 3:25:17

MARY HULL: Yes.

447 3:25:23

MS. NORRIS: Okay. And what exactly — which first section covers what type of transactions?

448 3:25:27

MARY HULL: That covers all of the deposits that were made into her account.

449 3:25:31

MS. NORRIS: And that is from 2013 to 2016?

450 3:25:34

MARY HULL: Yes. All of her accounts, actually.

451 3:25:45

MARY HULL: That would be all of the withdrawals from the account.

452 3:25:49

MARY HULL: There would be debits and checks.

453 3:25:58

MS. NORRIS: And finally, that would be your check box, where you check your work?

454 3:26:03

MARY HULL: Yes.

455 3:26:04

MS. NORRIS: Now, on the sources of income or deposits, are they listed from highest to lowest?

456 3:26:12

MARY HULL: They are sorted on the total column from highest to lowest. And then there's a total at the very bottom which shows how much came in over that four-year period.

457 3:26:25

MS. NORRIS: For the year 2013, what is the highest source of income?

458 3:26:31

MARY HULL: It would have been Sophie Dental.

459 3:26:35

MS. NORRIS: For 2016, what is the highest source of income?

460 3:26:39

MARY HULL: Sixteen?

461 3:26:40

MS. NORRIS: Yes, ma'am.

462 3:26:41

MARY HULL: It was Sigfredo Garcia.

463 3:26:44

MS. NORRIS: Was that consistent with the time frame when he was employed with Rapid Capital Funding?

464 3:26:50

MARY HULL: It was.

465 3:26:50

MS. NORRIS: And what was Ms. Magbanua's highest source of income in 2014?

466 3:26:56

MARY HULL: Cash deposits.

467 3:26:57

MS. NORRIS: What about 2015?

468 3:27:00

MARY HULL: Cash deposits.

469 3:27:02

MS. NORRIS: Overall, from 2013 to 2016, what is her highest source of income?

470 3:27:09

MARY HULL: Cash deposits.

471 3:27:20

MS. NORRIS: Based on the bank records that you reviewed in this case, were you able to ascertain where Ms. Magbanua may have been employed during the time period that we discussed?

472 3:27:29

MARY HULL: Yes, there were several different employments. Do you want me to list them out?

473 3:27:36

MS. NORRIS: Yes. What employment records did you have?

474 3:27:40

MARY HULL: From the bank records, I was able to identify — she worked at Encore Nationwide in 2013, July 2013 to December '13; Sophie Dental from July 29, 2013 to July 31, 2014.

475 3:27:57

MARY HULL: Adelson Institute — sometime in September, I think the check was written on the 17th, but it hit the account on October 7, 2014 — to May 17, 2016.

476 3:28:13

MARY HULL: Broward Dermatology from July 29, 2015 to March 23rd, 2016.

477 3:28:21

MARY HULL: Quintana Lopez from July 29th, 2016 to October 14th, 2016.

478 3:28:28

MARY HULL: And that's all that I had in the records for the banking, where she had made a payroll check deposit.

479 3:28:34

MS. NORRIS: Did you have any records from Optima Realty?

480 3:28:36

MARY HULL: I did not. There were no deposits into her account.

481 3:28:40

MS. NORRIS: What was the last one you listed? I'm sorry.

482 3:28:43

MARY HULL: Quintana Lopez.

483 3:28:45

MS. NORRIS: Who is that?

484 3:28:46

MARY HULL: I — I believe she was a dentist.

485 3:28:48

MS. NORRIS: And for the record, is that Q-I-N-T-A-N-A Lopez?

486 3:28:56

MS. NORRIS: Did you say yes?

487 3:28:57

MARY HULL: Yes.

488 3:28:58

MS. NORRIS: May I approach her?

489 3:28:59

JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.

490 3:29:00

MS. NORRIS: I'm showing you what's been marked for identification as State's Exhibit 107.

491 3:29:07

MS. NORRIS: You just spelled out a lot of dates and companies to us. Does this document accurately summarize, show in chart form, the timeline of Katherine Magbanua's employment based on the records that you reviewed in this case?

492 3:29:20

MARY HULL: Yes.

493 3:29:21

MS. NORRIS: And it is accurate?

494 3:29:23

MARY HULL: Yes.

495 3:29:24

MS. NORRIS: And is it based on the Excel spreadsheets that we reviewed earlier?

496 3:29:28

MARY HULL: Yes.

497 3:29:28

MS. NORRIS: At this time — sorry.

498 3:29:29

MARY HULL: From the bank records.

499 3:29:30

MS. NORRIS: At this time, I'd offer in evidence State's summary Exhibit 107.

500 3:29:34

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection?

501 3:29:40

MS. NORRIS: May I publish?

502 3:30:09

MS. NORRIS: I know the font is a little bit hard to read. Is the green — is the blue Encore Nationwide?

503 3:30:14

MARY HULL: It is.

504 3:30:15

MS. NORRIS: The green, Sophie Dental?

505 3:30:17

MARY HULL: Yes.

506 3:30:18

MS. NORRIS: The red, Adelson Institute?

507 3:30:20

MARY HULL: Yes.

508 3:30:20

MS. NORRIS: The purple?

509 3:30:21

MARY HULL: Yes.

510 3:30:22

MS. NORRIS: Dr. Obed?

511 3:30:22

MARY HULL: Yes.

512 3:30:22

MS. NORRIS: And then the yellow, Ms. Lopez?

513 3:30:23

MARY HULL: Yes.

514 3:30:23

MS. NORRIS: I want to focus on Ms. Magbanua's employment with the Adelson Institute.

515 3:30:33

MS. NORRIS: Did you review checks from the Adelson Institute to Katherine Magbanua?

516 3:30:38

MARY HULL: I did.

517 3:30:38

MS. NORRIS: And where did you — and those are the actual checks themselves, or photocopies of them?

518 3:30:43

MARY HULL: Yes.

519 3:30:43

MS. NORRIS: Where did you have records of those checks, and whose records?

520 3:30:47

MARY HULL: The checks showed up as checks coming out of the Adelson Institute's Regions account, and as deposits that went into the various accounts for Ms. Magbanua.

521 3:30:59

MS. NORRIS: What other records, besides the Adelson Institute's records and Ms. Magbanua's bank records, did you review as far as her employment at the Adelson Institute?

522 3:31:09

MARY HULL: The subpoena response from the Adelson Institute.

523 3:31:12

MS. NORRIS: May I approach?

524 3:31:13

JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.

525 3:31:35

MS. NORRIS: Starting with State's Exhibit 108, do you recognize what's contained in that document?

526 3:31:40

MARY HULL: Yes.

527 3:31:40

MS. NORRIS: What does it contain?

528 3:31:42

MARY HULL: It's a photocopy of all of the checks that she received from the Adelson Institute.

529 3:31:48

MS. NORRIS: And are they accurate copies of all of those checks?

530 3:31:51

MARY HULL: They are.

531 3:31:52

MS. NORRIS: At this time, I'd offer State's Exhibit 108.

532 3:31:55

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection? Be admitted.

533 3:32:00

MS. NORRIS: Would you agree with me that there's a voluminous amount of checks?

534 3:32:04

MARY HULL: Yes, there's 44, I believe.

535 3:32:07

MS. NORRIS: Did you prepare a summary Excel spreadsheet which included every single one of those checks in chronological order?

536 3:32:15

MARY HULL: Yes.

537 3:32:16

MS. NORRIS: I'm showing you State's Exhibit 109. Is that the summary you prepared of all the checks received by Katherine Magbanua from the Adelson Institute?

538 3:32:25

MARY HULL: It is.

539 3:32:25

MS. NORRIS: And it's an accurate summary based on the records you've reviewed?

540 3:32:28

MARY HULL: Yes. Yes.

541 3:32:29

MS. NORRIS: At this time, I'd offer State's Exhibit 109, the summary.

542 3:32:33

JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay, be admitted.

543 3:32:49

MS. NORRIS: I published for you the records received from the Adelson Institute pursuant to law enforcement's subpoena for employment file.

544 3:33:02

MS. NORRIS: Are you aware of what all documents the police asked for in this case related to her employment?

545 3:33:07

MARY HULL: Yes, they asked for all available information for her employment, which would have been her personnel file and her banking, the checks she would have received.

546 3:33:19

MS. NORRIS: And in your experience, and in your employment over the years, have you routinely requested personnel files for certain employees?

547 3:33:26

MARY HULL: Yes, I have.

548 3:33:27

MS. NORRIS: What type of information do you usually receive from a business about their employees?

549 3:33:32

MR. DECOSTE: Objection, relevance.

550 3:33:33

JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.

551 3:33:44

MS. NORRIS: In the response you received from the Adelson Institute, did it contain any employment application?

552 3:33:49

MARY HULL: No.

553 3:33:50

MS. NORRIS: Did it include any timesheets for Ms. Magbanua?

554 3:33:54

MARY HULL: It did not.

555 3:33:54

MS. NORRIS: Did it include any W-2 forms or tax filing records?

556 3:33:58

MARY HULL: It had the Department of Revenue's rehire information, the employment tax records.

557 3:34:07

MS. NORRIS: Okay. What about any evaluations about her performance?

558 3:34:10

MARY HULL: None.

559 3:34:12

MS. NORRIS: Did it include a job description for what she did for the Adelson Institute?

560 3:34:15

MARY HULL: No.

561 3:34:17

MS. NORRIS: In your experience, was that unusual?

562 3:34:19

MR. DECOSTE: Objection, relevance.

563 3:34:19

JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.

564 3:34:34

MARY HULL: Yes, it's actually just a QuickBooks printout from their accounting software.

565 3:34:38

MS. NORRIS: What is a QuickBooks printout?

566 3:34:42

MARY HULL: It's a very common accounting program a lot of people are using, and they just ran a search based on her name and printed out the checks — a copy, a summary of the checks she would have received from them.

567 3:34:58

MS. NORRIS: In the paychecks that were listed on the Adelson Institute's response, what was the time period covered?

568 3:35:07

MS. NORRIS: Can you read that?

569 3:35:22

MARY HULL: September 18th, 2014, to March 31st, 2016.

570 3:35:24

MS. NORRIS: Are you familiar with the date range that was — of infor— sorry, strike that. Are you familiar with what date range we requested in that subpoena to the Adelson Institute for Ms. Magbanua's employment records?

571 3:35:39

MARY HULL: I believe the subpoena was late in 2016, and you'd requested any and all.

572 3:35:46

MS. NORRIS: Now I — now I want to show you the summary of all of the checks that you reviewed.

573 3:36:08

MS. NORRIS: Do these go in chronological order from top to bottom?

574 3:36:11

MARY HULL: They do.

575 3:36:25

MS. NORRIS: Were all of these checks deposited by Ms. Magbanua?

576 3:36:28

MARY HULL: They were.

577 3:36:29

MS. NORRIS: And who signed each of the checks that you reviewed?

578 3:36:33

MARY HULL: Donna Adelson.

579 3:36:35

MS. NORRIS: What date was the first check issued to Ms. Magbanua?

580 3:36:38

MARY HULL: The first check was dated September 17, 2014. 2014.

581 3:36:44

MS. NORRIS: And then do they continue bi-weekly, or —?

582 3:36:47

MARY HULL: They are bi-weekly checks.

583 3:36:50

MS. NORRIS: What can you tell us about the amount of each of those checks?

584 3:36:53

MARY HULL: With exception of the first one, all the other ones she deposited in her account were $407.58.

585 3:37:03

MS. NORRIS: The earlier packet of the photocopies of all of those checks — in the memo line of the check, is there a time period issued, or not issued, but a time period indicated in the memo line?

586 3:37:13

MARY HULL: On most of them. You can see there are a couple of blank spots, which would indicate there was nothing in the memo field.

587 3:37:25

MS. NORRIS: In this top — in this far left column, we have the posting date of the check.

588 3:37:29

MARY HULL: Correct.

589 3:37:30

MS. NORRIS: That's not when the date is written, but when it's deposited.

590 3:37:32

MARY HULL: It was deposited in her account.

591 3:37:35

MS. NORRIS: This fourth column over — is that the check number?

592 3:37:38

MARY HULL: It is.

593 3:37:39

MS. NORRIS: Fifth column, amount?

594 3:37:41

MARY HULL: Yes.

595 3:37:43

MS. NORRIS: And then the date of the check is in this column here?

596 3:37:45

MARY HULL: Yes, the date it was written.

597 3:37:47

MS. NORRIS: And when you say memo, that's what was handwritten on the check in the memo line?

598 3:37:51

MARY HULL: Correct.

599 3:38:12

MS. NORRIS: I noticed how the checks that the Adelson Institute responded with, I believe it's March 31st, 2016?

600 3:38:14

MARY HULL: Yes.

601 3:38:21

MS. NORRIS: There were three additional checks that went into her account. What was the total gross amount paid by the Adelson Institute to Katherine Magbanua from September 2014 into May of 2016?

602 3:38:36

MARY HULL: The total gross amount would have been $19,600.

603 3:38:41

MS. NORRIS: What would the net amount be?

604 3:38:44

MARY HULL: $17,729.73.

605 3:38:59

MS. NORRIS: You mentioned earlier, in discussing the items that you reviewed in this case, having reviewed Charlie Adelson's iCloud contents. Did you review any text messages of interest as it relates to Katherine Magbanua's employment with the Adelson Institute?

606 3:39:39

JUDGE HANKINSON: What's that? Let's go ahead and take a lunch break. Let's be back ready to go at 1:15.

Procedural 1 Proc. 1 Magbanua Employment-Record Exhibit and Privacy Rulings
607 3:40:45

MS. NORRIS: Just publishing what's already in there, just from the iCloud record.

608 3:40:51

MR. DECOSTE: Correct, but this is not in evidence yet. They moved in — moved back to counsel — at the beginning of the trial they moved in the CD, the Cellebrite CD, and we agreed that it was authentic because of where it was obtained, but we said at that time that each time it comes in there would need to be a hearsay exception to bring it in. My objection now is the hearsay. I also don't believe that this is a proper witness to bring it in through.

609 3:41:16

JUDGE HANKINSON: Explain to me, Ms. Norris. Where — where is this coming from? I thought we had Mr. Adelson's iCloud account in full in evidence, based upon what Ms. Magbanua had brought up.

610 3:41:16

MS. NORRIS: No, sir. Actually, they objected to our introducing it earlier.

611 3:41:38

MS. NORRIS: We did lay the foundation for its authenticity, should we get to later on with excerpts from that. That, I believe, was through the testimony of Michael Dillmore. I did have them authenticate early text messages, including the one in question here.

612 3:41:53

MS. NORRIS: I said that I could lay the foundation for them to be introduced, but the CD itself was not introduced.

613 3:41:58

JUDGE HANKINSON: Well, what were they reading? What was Sergeant Corbitt reading from, then?

614 3:42:06

JUDGE HANKINSON: What was Sergeant Corbitt reading from as to the conversation between Ms. Magbanua and Mr. Adelson?

615 3:42:15

MS. NORRIS: That was from the iCloud.

616 3:42:22

JUDGE HANKINSON: I have the State's Exhibit 183 was placed in evidence without objection. Madam Clerk, is that correct?

617 3:42:31

COURT CLERK: Yes, sir.

618 3:42:32

JUDGE HANKINSON: Is this not part of 183?

619 3:42:37

MS. NORRIS: The State's Exhibit 183 is an excerpt from Charlie Adelson's iCloud. The CD with the entire contents, due to defense objection, was not introduced. And that was why, when the defense exhibit regarding the text exchange about deep sea fishing was admitted, it was over a State's objection. I was objecting because it was not in evidence.

620 3:42:59

MS. NORRIS: This particular text message is not being offered for its truth. I'm not offering it to prove the truth that Katherine Magbanua's date of birth is 12-22-84, or that that's her social, or that that's her address. I'm offering it to show that on September 16, 2014, Charlie Adelson has to send his mother, Donna Adelson, the contact information — and yet she has a check from the Adelson Institute the very next day, on September 17th, for an employment period beginning on July 15th. The argument being, it's relevant for the contacts and the payments from the Adelson Institute: they were employing her and writing checks for her for a period before they even knew what her name was, or her birthday, or her social, for purposes of putting her in the system and filing taxes for her.

621 3:43:50

MS. NORRIS: So I'm not offering the truth of that particular statement from Charlie Adelson — just that if that information was sent on that particular day, it's highly probative to the dates of the checks being issued by the Adelson Institute, and the fact that on the memo line of said check the employment period predated them even having any identifying information.

622 3:43:50

MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, if I could respond, just to clarify a few things. So at the beginning of trial they brought in the Cellebrite CD, and we agreed that it had been authenticated, but we objected, saying we can't just enter it all in because there's so much hearsay with all these 300,000 communications. There was the other problem as well, too — that there were some privileged items in there that the State identified, given the fact that Mr. Adelson, being a dentist —

623 3:43:50

JUDGE HANKINSON: I understand all that. Mr. DeCoste, get to your point, please.

624 3:43:50

MR. DECOSTE: So coming over to this, our objection remains.

625 3:44:45

MR. DECOSTE: I think it would be improper for the State to say what knowledge these individual witnesses had, whether they needed the name, or why that text message was sent.

626 3:44:52

MR. DECOSTE: Given the fact that it was a social security number, I would ask that that be redacted, because that is not information that Ms. Magbanua would want to have out there. I would note — and correct myself — that it is the text message that was sent, a message in between two witnesses that are not testifying in this trial. But I will withdraw my objection.

627 3:45:35

JUDGE HANKINSON: Statement. You would — I'm clear. I just was operating under a misunderstanding. When the State offered 183, I thought it was the full iCloud records. Actually, it was just an excerpt from them. So this is marked what?

628 3:45:49

MS. NORRIS: It's just one exhibit, marked 63.

629 3:45:52

JUDGE HANKINSON: So there's no objection to State's Exhibit 63?

630 3:45:52

MR. DECOSTE: I withdraw my objection. The only thing I do object to is her social security number being put in.

631 3:45:52

JUDGE HANKINSON: I'm going to direct the clerk, upon conclusion of the trial, to redact the social security number. But I think for the jury's purposes, and during the course of the trial, I think it's significant to the jury that that's the information. That's what really makes the text relevant, because if I understand the State's argument, they're saying they've written a check and don't even have the person's social security number at that point in time. So I agree it shouldn't be out there for all purposes, but we'll look. But at the end of the trial, Madam Clerk, please make a note to redact that.

632 3:46:46

MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, my hope right now is to be able to mitigate it. The unfortunate thing is, my understanding is that we're live streaming — that there's a camera that is on that overhead projector — that Ms. Magbanua's social security number and date of birth could already be out there.

633 3:46:58

JUDGE HANKINSON: I'll seal the social security number, so it's not to be displayed other than to the jury.

634 3:47:05

MR. DECOSTE: Thank you.

635 3:47:15

JUDGE HANKINSON: Anything else needed to introduce? How much more do you have with this witness?

636 3:47:25

MS. NORRIS: I think I'm about halfway.

637 3:47:26

MS. NORRIS: I do have others, just from the iCloud, that I provided.

638 3:47:26

JUDGE HANKINSON: Y'all discuss those, see if they're objectionable.

639 3:47:35

JUDGE HANKINSON: 1:15.

Procedural 2 Proc. 2 FHP Protocol Discovery Dispute and Scheduling
640 0:05

BAILIFF: Counselors, is there anything you would like to resolve for the museum?

641 0:09

MS. CAPPLEMAN: Not from the state.

642 0:13

MR. ZANGENEH: There is one matter, Judge.

643 0:16

BAILIFF: Okay, there is one matter from Garcia.

644 0:36

JUDGE HANKINSON: Yes, Mr. Zangeneh.

645 0:37

MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, sir. Good afternoon.

646 0:39

MR. ZANGENEH: I just wanted to bring to the court's attention.

647 0:48

MR. ZANGENEH: We have had Trooper Downing under subpoena to appear on Monday. We had communication with him earlier today, where he indicated that he was at first appearing because of a conflict that he has. We put the government on notice and provided them with information, contact information for the trooper. And we just wanted to bring it to the court's attention that we have advised him that the court has ordered all of our witnesses, which he is one of them, to be here Monday morning.

648 1:22

MR. ZANGENEH: It's one of the labor records that would do a large due diligence in attempting to obtain a subpoenaed register of fear and a death penalty homicide. And we have to get government on notice and give them contact information of this trooper to the government, which they listed and have listed as a witness in this case.

649 1:39

MR. DECOSTE: I could add to that that prior to trial, I haven't served Trooper Downing. But prior to trial, I was communicating to their liaison that we would be anticipating calling him to trial so that there should have been well-advanced notice to him.

650 1:53

JUDGE HANKINSON: I don't know. [unintelligible] I'm on notice.

651 2:00

MR. ZANGENEH: And in conjunction with that, this morning we received amended discovery from the government with regards to what we believe is one of the information that the government's going to use when we do call Trooper Downing.

652 2:15

MR. ZANGENEH: It is FHP protocol. There's two documents, one of which I believe is a dozen pages, one of which is about 95 pages. We've just been given this information, we've never seen it before, and I would move to exclude.

653 2:15

MR. DECOSTE: I will join.

654 2:29

JUDGE HANKINSON: I will have a Richardson hearing at the appropriate time.

655 2:35

JUDGE HANKINSON: What are you thinking, schedule wise? You might move awful slow today, Ms. Cappleman.

656 2:41

JUDGE HANKINSON: I'm looking at you, you're in charge.

657 2:43

MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir. I think we've got another — she said she was about halfway through with this witness, so maybe another 45 minutes to an hour with her, and then we'll be ready to move on to some other witnesses.

658 2:55

JUDGE HANKINSON: That's not my question. My question is, when do you think you'll wrap up?

659 2:59

MS. CAPPLEMAN: Monday.

660 3:00

JUDGE HANKINSON: You got an idea on it?

661 3:07

MS. CAPPLEMAN: It depends on how the rest of today goes, sometime between noon and... I'll advise you at the end of today whether I think it's going to be a midday or more like the end of the day Monday.

662 3:12

JUDGE HANKINSON: Why don't you ask the trooper to be here at 1 o'clock Monday maybe and solve the conflict with him?

663 3:20

MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, Judge. Thank you.

664 3:22

JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's have a jury.

Direct 2 Direct 2 Mary Hull Anna Norris
665 3:51

JUDGE HANKINSON: Everybody be seated, please.

666 3:53

JUDGE HANKINSON: You may proceed, Ms. Norris.

667 3:54

MS. NORRIS: Thank you, Your Honor. And at this time, I'd offer State's Exhibit 63.

668 4:00

JUDGE HANKINSON: Is there objection?

669 4:06

JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. 63 will be admitted.

670 4:08

MS. NORRIS: Can I publish?

671 4:09

JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.

672 4:18

MS. NORRIS: Well, Is this one of the text messages that you reviewed from Charlie Adelson's iCloud account with respect to Ms. Magbanua's employment at the Adelson Institute?

673 4:27

MARY HULL: I do.

674 4:28

MS. NORRIS: And what is the date of this text message from Charlie Adelson to Donna Adelson?

675 4:33

JUDGE HANKINSON: What number did we use on that?

676 4:36

MS. NORRIS: 63.

677 4:36

JUDGE HANKINSON: 53?

678 4:39

MS. NORRIS: 63. 63. Yes, sir.

679 4:41

JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. I'm sorry.

680 4:42

MS. NORRIS: It's okay. I've got it here.

681 4:43

JUDGE HANKINSON: It's okay.

682 4:44

MS. NORRIS: 63.

683 4:45

MS. NORRIS: Okay. So in State's Exhibit 63, what is the date of this text message from Charlie Adelson outgoing to his mom?

684 4:55

MARY HULL: It's September 16th, 2014.

685 4:59

MS. NORRIS: And what does it contain in the body of the text?

686 5:02

MARY HULL: The body of the text gives Katherine Magbanua's full name, her date of birth and her social security number and an address.

687 5:10

MS. NORRIS: What was the significance of this particular message to you in your financial

688 5:15

MARY HULL: When I reviewed the text message I realized that the date on the text was a day before her first employment check was written, and the employment check cited a day prior as being a day she was being paid for.

689 5:39

MS. NORRIS: I want to go back to State's Exhibit 109.

690 5:54

MS. NORRIS: In your analysis of the paychecks from the Adelsons to Ms. Magbanua, I noticed that some line items are in red ink as opposed to black. What do those indicate?

691 6:03

MARY HULL: Those indicated sequentially numbered checks.

692 6:08

MS. NORRIS: Explain what you mean by that.

693 6:09

MARY HULL: That they went from check, um, it's like 1777, 1778 and 1779, so they would have all been in the same checkbook.

694 6:24

MS. NORRIS: And were those checks?

695 6:35

MARY HULL: No, they had different dates. Yes.

696 6:46

MS. NORRIS: Were they all desposited around the same date by Ms. Magbanua?

697 6:50

MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Confusing.

698 6:51

JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.

699 6:59

MS. NORRIS: Make it a little bit bigger. It's in red.

700 6:59

JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's kind of specify where you're pointing to this, Ms. Norris. You started reading from something. Can you blow them up a little bigger than that? We don't have binoculars. There we go. I can read that now.

701 6:59

MARY HULL: All right. So the first set of checks that are listed in red would be February 12, 2015, February 26, 2015, March 11, 2015.

702 7:29

MARY HULL: And they were deposited, and I knew by blowing it up I got rid of that column.

703 7:34

MARY HULL: Those were the dates they were deposited into her account.

704 7:36

MS. NORRIS: But the date that the check was written?

705 7:39

MARY HULL: Was February 4th, February 5th, and February 5th.

706 7:43

MS. NORRIS: And were there a number of other checks written by Ms. Adelson to Katherine Magbanua that were sequential, as in numbered consecutively in the checkbook?

707 7:52

MARY HULL: Yes.

708 7:52

MS. NORRIS: And those are demonstrated in red, and everyone can read it for themselves, right?

709 7:59

MS. NORRIS: What about this far right column?

710 8:03

MARY HULL: The one with the asterisks — that just indicated to me that the date on the check was written prior to the date listed as worked. So she was actually written a check before the day she worked.

711 8:46

MS. NORRIS: All of the rows with the I'm showing you what I marked for identification as State's Exhibit 64.

712 8:53

MS. NORRIS: Do you recognize that document?

713 8:56

MARY HULL: I do.

714 8:56

MS. NORRIS: What does it contain?

715 8:58

MARY HULL: Text messages between Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua.

716 9:04

MS. NORRIS: Did you review these from Charlie Adelson's iPhone?

717 9:07

JUDGE HANKINSON: If we have a series of exhibits, why don't we see if there's objection to any of them and get them all in at once? We don't have to spend time on each one individually.

718 9:24

MS. NORRIS: Yes, sir. And do a series of I would love to, Judge.

719 9:26

MS. NORRIS: State's Exhibits 61 through 69.

720 9:35

JUDGE HANKINSON: To look at those, see if there's any objection to any of those. I mean, you've already seen them multiple times.

721 9:44

MR. ZANGENEH: No objection from Mr. Garcia.

722 9:46

JUDGE HANKINSON: So the jury's aware, I've instructed the state to show the other side all of the exhibits in advance as they're numbered, so we don't have to spend a bunch of time looking through them each time.

723 10:06

JUDGE HANKINSON: They've also had them in discovery previously, with a couple of few discrepancies.

724 10:13

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objections to any of those items? If you're saying relevance.

725 10:16

JUDGE HANKINSON: As to which ones?

726 10:18

MR. DECOSTE: All of them, Your Honor.

727 10:19

JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. Let's go sidebar.

728 14:46

MS. NORRIS: Your Honor, if I could have one moment to—

729 15:43

MS. NORRIS: So, Your Honor, at this time I would offer State's Exhibits 64 through 69.

730 15:48

JUDGE HANKINSON: I've ruled that some parts of it may be admissible, some parts of it are not.

731 15:53

MS. NORRIS: I have excluded the two pursuant to the Court's ruling.

732 16:51

JUDGE HANKINSON: Those will be. So those 64 through 69 takes out any of the ones that I sustained the objection to, in agreement with Mr. DeCoste?

733 16:53

MS. NORRIS: Yes, Your Honor.

734 16:54

JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. 64 through 69, as amended, will be admitted.

735 17:15

MS. NORRIS: Now may I approach the file again?

736 17:17

JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay.

737 17:45

MS. NORRIS: Okay. May I approach with one more set — group of exhibits, Judge?

738 17:49

JUDGE HANKINSON: No.

739 17:58

MS. NORRIS: Now I'm showing you State's Exhibit 110. On 110, do you recognize these AMEX records, and are they accurate excerpts of the Charlie Adelson American Express records that we introduced on CD earlier?

740 18:11

MARY HULL: They are.

741 18:13

MS. NORRIS: I'm showing you State's Exhibit 112. Do you recognize those American Express records for Mr. Adelson?

742 18:19

MARY HULL: I do.

743 18:20

MS. NORRIS: And are those also off the same disc?

744 18:22

MARY HULL: They are.

745 18:24

MS. NORRIS: Finally, State's Exhibit 114. Do you recognize those American Express records for Mr. Adelson?

746 18:30

MARY HULL: I do.

747 18:31

MS. NORRIS: Off of the same disc, and accurate?

748 18:33

MARY HULL: Yes.

749 18:34

MS. NORRIS: And did you rely on all of these in your analysis?

750 18:36

MARY HULL: I do.

751 18:36

MS. NORRIS: The state offers State's Exhibits 110, 112, and 114.

752 18:40

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objections?

753 18:42

MR. DECOSTE: Same objection, Your Honor.

754 18:47

JUDGE HANKINSON: I'll overrule the objection — admit 110, 112, 114.

755 18:54

MS. NORRIS: Did you look in the records and the iCloud for indications that Charlie Adelson was providing financial assistance to Katherine Magbanua?

756 19:04

MARY HULL: I did.

757 19:05

MS. NORRIS: I want to first publish for you — or, if I may publish, Judge.

758 19:33

MS. NORRIS: Based on these particular records from Mr. Adelson's American Express account, there are numerous payments to businesses and things of that nature in Key West, Florida?

759 19:46

MARY HULL: I did.

760 19:48

MS. NORRIS: And what time frame was this for?

761 20:01

MARY HULL: It was the end of June — June 28, 2014 — through the July 4th weekend, I believe.

762 20:04

MS. NORRIS: July what?

763 20:05

MARY HULL: July 4th, 2014.

764 20:15

MS. NORRIS: Can you tell the location based off of the records themselves?

765 20:20

MARY HULL: Yes.

766 20:30

MS. NORRIS: Did Ms. Magbanua have any corresponding payments that she made to businesses in Key West at that time?

767 20:34

MARY HULL: Only a couple, but they — as minor as they were — did put her in Key West at the same time.

768 20:40

MS. NORRIS: But it appeared that Mr. Adelson, based on his records, was making the payments during that Key West trip?

769 20:46

MARY HULL: Yes.

770 21:03

MS. NORRIS: Did you locate evidence from either the iCloud or Charlie Adelson's American Express records which indicated he purchased airfare for Ms. Magbanua?

771 21:16

MARY HULL: I did.

772 21:17

MS. NORRIS: And what evidence was that?

773 21:35

MARY HULL: There was both discussion — I'm sorry, there was a picture showing he purchased the ticket from his iCloud account.

774 21:35

MS. NORRIS: Charlie Adelson's iCloud account. What is the date of the item he is photographing — the purchase?

775 21:49

MARY HULL: March 6, 2015.

776 21:52

MS. NORRIS: And what does that purchase appear to be?

777 21:55

MARY HULL: Airline tickets for Ms. Magbanua.

778 21:57

MS. NORRIS: To where?

779 22:00

MARY HULL: Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic.

780 22:17

MS. NORRIS: Did you also find that corresponding American Express from the same date?

781 22:28

MARY HULL: Yes, yes.

782 22:57

MS. NORRIS: During any of the text message exchange — exchanges, excuse me — um, did you find — sorry, I'm jumping all over the place, my exhibits are a mess. Um, strike that last question.

783 23:10

MS. NORRIS: Did you find text exchanges between Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua in which he indicates paying for additional travel for her and her relatives?

784 23:20

MARY HULL: Yes.

785 23:45

MS. NORRIS: I'll show you. Referring to this message on October 19th around 3 p.m., um, is that Charlie Adelson's outgoing message to ask you — where do you want to take your mom?

786 23:56

MARY HULL: Yes.

787 24:04

MS. NORRIS: And then on October 19th, messaging Ms. Magbanua, "What do you want me to get, a cruise for you and your mom?"

788 24:11

MARY HULL: Yes.

789 24:18

MS. NORRIS: Further messages indicating what time you think would be a good time for him to purchase travel for them?

790 24:24

MARY HULL: Yes.

791 24:37

MS. NORRIS: And those were — I apologize, I didn't ask — those were in October of 2015?

792 24:44

MARY HULL: Yes, it is.

793 24:59

MS. NORRIS: With respect to the earlier documents we introduced from Dr. Roudner, what was the date of the breast augmentation for which you received records for Ms. Magbanua?

794 25:32

MARY HULL: The date — we received the records — surgery is listed as October 18, 2014.

795 25:38

MS. NORRIS: Based on their records, do you know how much the procedure cost?

796 25:54

MARY HULL: Yes, the total amount was four thousand five hundred ninety-five dollars.

797 26:14

MS. NORRIS: Is there any evidence that Ms. Magbanua purchased or paid for the entirety of this breast augmentation?

798 26:19

MARY HULL: Yes, there were two charges from her—

799 26:22

MR. DECOSTE: Objection, mischaracterization of the evidence as to who paid for it.

800 26:29

JUDGE HANKINSON: I'll overrule the objection.

801 26:30

MS. NORRIS: Can you answer the question?

802 26:32

MARY HULL: Yes, there was two payments of 150 and 45 that were from her credit account — from her debit account.

803 26:40

MS. NORRIS: Okay, so you can find — God bless you — you can find in her, not the Dr. Roudner records, but in her own bank records, that she spent or paid $195 for this procedure.

804 26:54

MARY HULL: Yes.

805 26:54

MS. NORRIS: And did one of those appear to be a co-pay or a consultation fee, or both?

806 26:59

MARY HULL: They — they — yes, they appeared to be a consultation fee.

807 27:04

MS. NORRIS: Okay, so what was the remaining balance if you separate out the $195 that she paid that you see in her records, her bank records — what would the remaining balance be?

808 27:16

MARY HULL: $4,400.

809 27:18

MS. NORRIS: And how was that payment made?

810 27:20

MARY HULL: In cash.

811 27:21

MS. NORRIS: Are there any — did you review her accounts to see if there were any corresponding withdrawals of that amount of cash to pay for that?

812 27:28

MARY HULL: I did.

813 27:29

MS. NORRIS: And what were your results?

814 27:35

MARY HULL: I did not find any corresponding cash withdrawals.

815 27:35

MS. NORRIS: Even leading up to the surgery date — so if the surgery is in October, I believe you previously testified — how far back did you go to see if you could come up with smaller cash withdrawals to total the $4,400 that she would have had to pay?

816 27:51

MARY HULL: January of 2014.

817 27:53

MS. NORRIS: So 10 months?

818 27:54

MARY HULL: Yes.

819 27:55

MS. NORRIS: And what were the total amount of cash withdrawals that she had over the 10 months preceding the breast augmentation surgery?

820 28:01

MARY HULL: $2,180.

821 28:03

MS. NORRIS: Was there any evidence in her accounts that you reviewed, or her credit card accounts, that she got a cash advance?

822 28:11

MARY HULL: There was no cash advance.

823 28:17

MS. NORRIS: While we're on the subject of the Dr. Roudner records, at the time that the surgery was performed in October of 2014, was she — was that during her employment period at the Adelson Institute?

824 28:29

MARY HULL: It was.

825 28:40

MS. NORRIS: Was there any disruption in her — any disruption in the paychecks that she received from the Adelson Institute in October of 2014?

826 28:48

MARY HULL: No.

827 29:00

MS. NORRIS: You just mentioned no disruption in paychecks — well, were any of the paychecks in lesser amounts to reflect a period of absence from work due to recovery from a major surgery?

828 29:00

MR. DECOSTE: Objection, calls for speculation.

829 29:00

JUDGE HANKINSON: Restate the question, please.

830 29:00

MS. NORRIS: Yes, sir. During the time frame you had her records, you knew what time her surgery happened — or the date of her surgery, right?

831 29:00

MARY HULL: Yes.

832 29:00

MS. NORRIS: Based on that, is there any corresponding paycheck which appears to be reduced in amount to account for her absence from work?

833 29:40

MARY HULL: I do.

834 29:42

MARY HULL: Am I allowed to answer?

835 29:43

JUDGE HANKINSON: Yes, ma'am.

836 29:44

MARY HULL: Okay. There is no reduction in her pay.

837 29:54

MS. NORRIS: Did you review text messages between Katherine Magbanua and Charlie Adelson in which she asks him for money?

838 30:06

MARY HULL: Yes.

839 30:08

MS. NORRIS: I'm going to publish to you what's in evidence.

840 30:24

MS. NORRIS: This first line — is this Katherine Magbanua to Charlie Adelson?

841 30:28

MARY HULL: Yes.

842 30:37

MS. NORRIS: I'm sorry.

843 30:43

MS. NORRIS: These messages are dated May of 2015.

844 30:46

MARY HULL: Yes.

845 30:48

MS. NORRIS: So in the first message we have the request for financial assistance.

846 30:54

MS. NORRIS: Is that right?

847 30:55

MARY HULL: Yes, that's correct.

848 30:56

MS. NORRIS: And in these messages, does she indicate that she's short on money at that time?

849 31:00

MARY HULL: In those messages, it does say she's short on money.

850 31:05

MS. NORRIS: Are you aware of what her account balances were on this date, May 20, 2015?

851 31:12

MARY HULL: I am.

852 31:12

MS. NORRIS: What is the total amount of cash that she had in her accounts on that date?

853 31:17

MARY HULL: All her accounts combined, she had $15,582.22.

854 31:24

MS. NORRIS: Did you review her accounts for any corresponding significant cash deposit?

855 31:31

MARY HULL: Yes.

856 31:34

MS. NORRIS: May I approach?

857 31:35

MS. NORRIS: May I?

858 31:37

MS. NORRIS: I'm showing these things. Is it at 113 for identification?

859 31:40

MS. NORRIS: Do you recognize that?

860 31:42

MARY HULL: I do.

861 31:42

MS. NORRIS: And does this accurately summarize her records as to her deposits after this request for financial assistance?

862 31:49

MARY HULL: It has, yes. It has both withdrawals and deposits, and the deposit is $1,400.

863 31:57

MS. NORRIS: And this is an accurate summary of the Excel records we looked at earlier?

864 32:01

MARY HULL: It is.

865 32:02

MS. NORRIS: And the State would offer this as State's Exhibit 113?

866 32:05

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection?

867 32:11

JUDGE HANKINSON: I'll roll the objection on Exhibit 113.

868 32:24

MS. NORRIS: Now, This isn't — this deposit does not occur on the exact date that Ms. Magbanua asked for cash assistance from Charlie Adelson, does it?

869 32:31

MARY HULL: No, it does not.

870 32:32

MS. NORRIS: May 26th, 2015, or six days later?

871 32:35

MS. NORRIS: In the bigger scheme of the records there, was this a significant deposit after that text request?

872 32:42

MARY HULL: Yes.

873 33:00

MS. NORRIS: Was there any evidence that you reviewed regarding Charlie Adelson paying for the Mazda repairs for the vehicle that Ms. Magbanua owned?

874 33:10

MARY HULL: There was.

875 33:18

MS. NORRIS: I'm going to publish for you 114.

876 33:34

MS. NORRIS: What was the date of Charlie Adelson paying Mazda?

877 33:39

MARY HULL: November 10, 2015.

878 33:42

MS. NORRIS: What was the amount that was paid?

879 33:44

MARY HULL: $1,620.70.

880 34:04

MARY HULL: That was a picture that was in the iCloud records. It's a credit card authorization from Charlie Adelson to pay for Ms. Magbanua's car repair.

881 34:18

MS. NORRIS: And the amount, $1,650, corresponds to the Mazda payment on the records of the $1,620.77?

882 34:25

MARY HULL: Yes, this is an authorization to charge up to $1,650.

883 34:32

MS. NORRIS: And was this photograph, based on your review of the iCloud, sent to Katherine Magbanua?

884 34:38

MARY HULL: It was.

885 34:52

MS. NORRIS: And the date as well — this is the authorization form on November 9, 2015, and the payment on November 10, 2015.

886 34:54

MARY HULL: Yes.

887 35:04

MS. NORRIS: Last, I want to show — not last, next to last — I want to show you State's Exhibit 67.

888 35:10

MS. NORRIS: This is a very extensive text message conversation.

889 35:14

MS. NORRIS: Is that clear?

890 35:14

MARY HULL: Yes, it is.

891 35:15

MS. NORRIS: I want to point out just a couple of things in the back.

892 35:38

MS. NORRIS: Does this conversation reflect communications between Charlie Adelson and — And are these dated prior to the payments made by Charlie Adelson in October of 2015?

893 35:43

MARY HULL: It is.

894 36:07

MS. NORRIS: One thing here on November — tell me if you can't see it — the very top on November 5, 2015 — is that approximately two months before we see the title to the Lexus transferred from Harvey Adelson to Katherine Magbanua?

895 36:17

MARY HULL: Yes.

896 36:18

MS. NORRIS: And read for me the text message at the top on November 5th, 2015.

897 36:22

MARY HULL: The very first one?

898 36:23

MS. NORRIS: Yes, ma'am.

899 36:25

MARY HULL: "By the way, Sully did about $5,000 work on the Lexus right before my parents sold it to me."

900 36:51

MS. NORRIS: On the 6th, I'm going to direct your attention to this text message at 9:21 a.m.

901 36:59

MS. NORRIS: Incoming from Katie — and I apologize,

902 37:06

MARY HULL: Yes, it says, "You're paying for this, right? Lol, because I don't have the bread." And he responds that he will give — "You this, I'll lend you." Yes: "I will lend you the money. I will give you my credit card then."

903 37:34

MS. NORRIS: And they go on — it goes on to discuss paying for other repairs and sending his credit card authorization, et cetera. Is that right?

904 37:43

MARY HULL: That's correct.

905 37:49

MS. NORRIS: Now, This is the very last question, and it's out of order, but going back to the Adelson Institute situation: we did see the text message sending her biographical or identifying information from Charlie Adelson to Donna Adelson at the beginning of the employment. At some point, were there text messages between them about payroll deductions?

906 38:10

MARY HULL: There was.

907 38:11

MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Hearsay.

908 38:16

JUDGE HANKINSON: Well, There's a question on the floor at this point. She's answered yes. Ask another question, Ms. Norris.

909 38:26

MS. NORRIS: What is contained in this text?

910 38:31

MARY HULL: Do you wish me to read it or just summarize?

911 38:35

MS. NORRIS: Just read the first line for us on May 11, 2015.

912 38:39

MARY HULL: "Hey, quick question. Can your mom text you really quick how much she deducts, like the three amounts for Social Security, etc., please?"

913 38:54

MS. NORRIS: Further down in that exhibit on May 11, does Charlie Adelson respond?

914 38:59

MARY HULL: "Gross salary $450, federal withholding tax is $8, Social Security is $34.42, net salary is $407.58."

915 39:12

MARY HULL: That is the categories for single and two dependents.

916 39:26

MARY HULL: Not that they ever call, just in case.

917 39:29

MARY HULL: "You can, sure, they can call me anytime," he responds.

918 39:33

MARY HULL: "You're the best."

919 39:44

MS. NORRIS: Okay, now I want to move to Katherine Magbanua's accounts.

920 39:48

MS. NORRIS: We saw your analysis. Did you prepare summaries based on your Excel spreadsheet work?

921 39:53

MARY HULL: I did.

922 40:02

MS. NORRIS: May I approach, my last slide?

923 40:08

MS. NORRIS: Showing you State's Exhibit 115, what does that document contain?

924 40:13

MARY HULL: This is a pie chart showing her income sources.

925 40:17

MS. NORRIS: For what year?

926 40:18

MARY HULL: 2014.

927 40:19

MS. NORRIS: And is it an accurate summary based on all of the data you examined?

928 40:23

MARY HULL: It is.

929 40:24

MS. NORRIS: Now I'm showing you State's Exhibit 116. What does that contain?

930 40:28

MARY HULL: Her income sources for 2015.

931 40:31

MS. NORRIS: Similar pie chart?

932 40:33

MARY HULL: Yes.

933 40:33

MS. NORRIS: And is it accurate based on the data you analyzed?

934 40:35

MARY HULL: It is.

935 40:37

MS. NORRIS: State's Exhibit 117.

936 40:39

MS. NORRIS: What does this document contain?

937 40:42

MARY HULL: This contains a list of all of her cash deposits as they went in, in date order, listing all of the accounts.

938 40:50

MS. NORRIS: And is that accurate based on the data you analyzed?

939 40:52

MARY HULL: Yes.

940 40:53

MS. NORRIS: An accurate summary, I should say. And finally, State's Exhibit 118 — do you recognize that?

941 40:58

MARY HULL: Yes, it's a line graph visually depicting the cash deposits from 2013 to 2016.

942 41:06

MS. NORRIS: Summarized based on your analysis of the records?

943 41:09

MARY HULL: Yes.

944 41:09

MS. NORRIS: All right. At this time, I'd offer into evidence State's Exhibits 115, 116, 117, and 118.

945 41:17

JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objections?

946 41:21

JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. They'll be admitted.

947 41:26

MS. NORRIS: I should have mentioned.

948 41:39

MARY HULL: Yes.

949 41:50

MS. NORRIS: Explain to me what you're demonstrating.

950 41:54

MARY HULL: The graph works — the pie chart works clockwise.

951 41:58

MARY HULL: So the first section is a 63% showing cash deposits compared to the others. There's Sophie Dental, Cecilia Magbanua, Bancorp Bank, Adelson Institute, and Miscellaneous.

952 42:19

MS. NORRIS: And I then want income sources, 2015.

953 42:25

MARY HULL: Again, the information is clockwise, with the largest going to smallest — the largest being cash deposits, followed by Adelson Institute, an IRS refund, Dr. Jerome Obed, Cecilia Magbanua, Garrison Insurance Company, and Miscellaneous.

954 42:45

MS. NORRIS: Now, if you combined all cash deposits with all payments from the Adelson Institute, what percent of her entire income would that be for 2015?

955 42:57

MARY HULL: 70%.

956 43:21

MARY HULL: The different columns — the two columns on the left are what I call my buoy markers. It tells me exactly where I can find that transaction on a bank statement. Since there's two, that's coming from my combined 2013–2016 section of that analysis that I did.

957 43:43

MARY HULL: There is the account that it's identified, the date that it happened, and the description was cash deposit, and the amount.

958 43:51

MARY HULL: There's a total that's to the right of the column.

959 43:57

MS. NORRIS: So this is based on the records that you had for 2013?

960 44:01

MARY HULL: Yes.

961 44:02

MS. NORRIS: Then what follows, going on to — sorry — the next page includes all of the cash that we had in 2014.

962 44:12

MARY HULL: Yes.

963 44:13

MS. NORRIS: And then we continue on to 2015.

964 44:16

MARY HULL: Yes.

965 44:17

MS. NORRIS: And you had some records you summarized here from 2016?

966 44:23

MARY HULL: Correct.

967 44:28

MS. NORRIS: What size deposits of cash would Ms. Magbanua usually make?

968 44:33

MARY HULL: You can look on there and see they range basically from $200 to $2,000 — I think was one of the higher ones.

969 44:43

MS. NORRIS: And how much total cash was deposited into her account from 2013 to 2016?

970 44:52

MARY HULL: That would be the $88,021.33.

971 44:59

MS. NORRIS: And that's the total that we have on the final page?

972 45:01

MARY HULL: Yes.

973 45:13

MS. NORRIS: Out of that $88,000 cash from 2013 through 2016, how much cash did she deposit in the 12 months immediately preceding the homicide?

974 45:13

MARY HULL: Immediately preceding was, I believe, $15,600.

975 45:31

MS. NORRIS: Out of those 12 months, how much of that $15,600 was deposited in the four months immediately preceding the murder?

976 45:39

MARY HULL: Ten thousand.

977 45:39

MS. NORRIS: Was there any increase in her cash deposit activity after July 18th, 2014?

978 45:49

MARY HULL: Yes.

979 45:51

MS. NORRIS: Okay, so let's use a 12-month period, for example.

980 45:54

MS. NORRIS: For 12 months from the murder out — so from July 2014 to July 2015 — what were her cash deposits for that year period?

981 46:04

MARY HULL: I believe it was $41,000.

982 46:10

MS. NORRIS: And of all the months that you analyzed as far as cash deposits from July 2013 to July 2016, which month had the highest amount of cash deposits out of all the months?

983 46:22

MARY HULL: August 2014.

984 46:25

MS. NORRIS: What was the total amount deposited in that single month?

985 46:28

MARY HULL: $13,200.

986 46:31

MS. NORRIS: Did Ms. Magbanua often make multiple ATM deposits of cash in the same day?

987 46:40

MARY HULL: Yes.

988 46:40

MS. NORRIS: And would she make approximately how many hundred dollars per deposit?

989 46:47

MARY HULL: It varied a lot, from two to even a thousand.

990 46:52

MS. NORRIS: And on the dates that she would make multiple ATM deposits within the same day, would those be the same or different ATM locations?

991 47:02

MARY HULL: Different ATM locations.

992 47:10

MS. NORRIS: The last exhibit.

993 47:11

MARY HULL: This graph shows the cash deposits from 2013 to 2016 — all of the records I had available, showing by month the amount of the cash that was deposited.

994 47:37

MS. NORRIS: And are you able to match this timeline of her cash deposits from 2013 to 2016 with the timeline of her employment?

995 48:04

MARY HULL: Yes. I can't put two pieces of paper on top of each other.

996 48:23

MS. NORRIS: Does that accurately reflect her cash deposits shown on top of where she was working at that time?

997 48:27

MARY HULL: Yes.

998 48:32

MS. NORRIS: And during the time that her cash deposits are the highest, where is she employed?

999 48:37

MARY HULL: I do not have a record of her being employed.

1000 48:41

MS. NORRIS: And what was the murder date in this case?

1001 48:44

MARY HULL: July 18th, 2014.

1002 48:51

MS. NORRIS: I'm going to show you the demonstrative.

1003 48:55

MARY HULL: Okay.

1004 48:56

MS. NORRIS: Does this line accurately depict on this chart where July 2014 and August 2014 are?

1005 49:01

MARY HULL: Yes.

1006 49:14

MARY HULL: It is.

1007 49:16

MS. NORRIS: The time period?

1008 49:22

MS. NORRIS: At the very beginning of your testimony, we talked about all the records that you reviewed.

1009 49:26

MS. NORRIS: Investment accounts for the Adelsons, business accounts, et cetera.

1010 49:31

MS. NORRIS: Did they have access to a lot of cash?

1011 49:34

MARY HULL: They did.

1012 49:35

MS. NORRIS: Did they operate a lot in cash at their Adelson Institute?

1013 49:38

MARY HULL: Yes.

1014 49:39

MR. DECOSTE: Objection, personal knowledge.

1015 49:42

JUDGE HANKINSON: Clarify her knowledge, please.

1016 49:51

MS. NORRIS: Based on your review of the records, did they give cash discounts for services?

1017 49:56

MARY HULL: Yes.

1018 49:56

MR. DECOSTE: Objection, hearsay as to the basis of that knowledge.

1019 49:58

JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.

1020 50:01

MARY HULL: Yes.

1021 50:02

MS. NORRIS: Would you — how would you characterize the wealth level of Donna and Harvey Adelson?

1022 50:10

MR. DECOSTE: Objection, improper opinion and personal knowledge.

1023 50:17

JUDGE HANKINSON: I'll sustain. There's no foundation.

1024 50:19

MS. NORRIS: Did you review how many investment accounts they had?

1025 50:23

MARY HULL: I did.

1026 50:24

MS. NORRIS: Did you review all of their business records, or business banking records, financial records?

1027 50:29

MARY HULL: Yes.

1028 50:29

MS. NORRIS: Their personal financial records?

1029 50:31

MARY HULL: Yes.

1030 50:32

MS. NORRIS: Did they have a lot of money?

1031 50:34

MARY HULL: Yes.

1032 50:34

JUDGE HANKINSON: And what time frame, Ms. Norris?

1033 50:35

MS. NORRIS: During the time frame of all the records, 2013 through 2016, that you had for them.

1034 50:41

MARY HULL: Yes.

1035 50:41

MS. NORRIS: And was that an answer of yes during that time frame?

1036 50:48

MARY HULL: Yes.

1037 50:51

MS. NORRIS: What was the annual income of the Adelson Institute?

1038 50:54

MARY HULL: Approximately $2 million.

1039 50:56

MS. NORRIS: I couldn't hear you.

1040 50:58

MARY HULL: Approximately $2 million.

1041 51:03

MS. NORRIS: And about how much did Charlie Adelson make annually?

1042 51:08

MARY HULL: Between 3 million and 3.5 million.

1043 51:24

MS. NORRIS: Different years?

1044 51:26

MARY HULL: Clarify what?

1045 51:28

MS. NORRIS: You said 3 and 3 and a half.

1046 51:30

MARY HULL: Right. Over the different years, it would be between 3 million and 3.5 million.

1047 51:37

MS. NORRIS: For what years?

1048 51:39

MARY HULL: The 2013 to 2016 that I have the records.

1049 51:42

MR. ZANGENEH: Are you concluded?

1050 52:15

MS. NORRIS: Yes, I just said that.

1051 52:16

MS. NORRIS: I didn't hear it either.

1052 52:16

JUDGE HANKINSON: I'm sorry, Judge.

1053 52:18

MR. ZANGENEH: May I inquire?

1054 52:19

JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.

1055 52:20

MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, a request, if possible. If I could either step out while Mr. Zangeneh is cross-examining, or if we could take a five-minute break just so that I could set up for the cross-examination, it would make it move a lot faster for me.

1056 52:33

MR. DECOSTE: If, after he does his cross-examination, we could take five minutes.

1057 52:35

JUDGE HANKINSON: Your representations of being quick are not very credible.

1058 52:39

MR. DECOSTE: I'll try my best.

1059 52:42

JUDGE HANKINSON: We're about due for a break. We'll take ten minutes.

1060 52:46

MR. DECOSTE: Thank you, Your Honor.

Cross 1 Cross 1 Mary Hull Saam Zangeneh
1061 1:04:52

JUDGE HANKINSON: Be seated, please. You may proceed, Mr. Zangeneh.

1062 1:05:00

MR. ZANGENEH: Good afternoon.

1063 1:05:01

MARY HULL: Good afternoon.

1064 1:05:02

MR. ZANGENEH: My name is Saam Zangeneh. I represent Mr. Garcia. I'm going to ask you some questions with regards to your investigation and your testimony, okay?

1065 1:05:09

MARY HULL: I understand.

1066 1:05:10

MR. ZANGENEH: So the government asked you to do your due diligence and kind of find out if my client, Mr. Garcia, had made any purchases with regards to automobiles or motorcycles, correct?

1067 1:05:21

MARY HULL: Yes.

1068 1:05:22

MR. ZANGENEH: And the information that you gave the jury on direct examination was from a time period from July of 2014 till a few months after that, correct?

1069 1:05:31

MARY HULL: Correct.

1070 1:05:32

MR. ZANGENEH: All right. Now, one of the vehicles that you talked about — and this is Government's Exhibit 102 — was a Monte Carlo, correct?

1071 1:05:46

MARY HULL: Yes.

1072 1:05:47

MR. ZANGENEH: Do you remember what year that Monte Carlo was?

1073 1:05:49

MARY HULL: Yes, it's a 1984.

1074 1:05:51

MR. ZANGENEH: And do you remember the mileage on the Monte Carlo?

1075 1:05:51

MARY HULL: I don't — I don't have it listed.

1076 1:06:00

MR. ZANGENEH: Will you agree with me that a car with more mileage would be an impact on the value of the vehicle?

1077 1:06:06

MARY HULL: Yes.

1078 1:06:07

MR. ZANGENEH: Was there any information with regards to the purchase price of that vehicle within the documentation that you provided?

1079 1:06:23

MARY HULL: I don't recall any.

1080 1:07:13

MR. ZANGENEH: Direct your attention, the government's exhibit — I'm sorry, 103. Would it be fair to say that it's a 1984 Chevrolet, two-door, color blue, correct?

1081 1:07:18

MARY HULL: Correct.

1082 1:07:18

MR. ZANGENEH: And the purchase date of this vehicle was what date, do you recall?

1083 1:07:24

MARY HULL: July 26, 2014.

1084 1:07:31

MR. ZANGENEH: And does this document show that the vehicle was sold a year later for $600?

1085 1:07:42

MARY HULL: It's published in a document that's in evidence, as I understand. I can't see that well enough to see it.

1086 1:07:48

MR. ZANGENEH: Oh, sure, no problem. Let me zoom in.

1087 1:07:50

MR. ZANGENEH: You see what's circled there that says "selling price"?

1088 1:07:54

MARY HULL: I see it.

1089 1:07:55

MR. ZANGENEH: What number is that? Can you tell the jury?

1090 1:07:58

MARY HULL: $600.

1091 1:08:16

MR. ZANGENEH: And this is the title that my client purchased, the 1980 — I'm sorry.

1092 1:08:18

MR. ZANGENEH: There we go.

1093 1:08:21

MR. ZANGENEH: So this is the certificate of title for Sigfredo Garcia, correct?

1094 1:08:26

MARY HULL: Yes. Yes.

1095 1:08:27

MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And that's the same 1984 two-door Chevrolet, correct?

1096 1:08:32

MARY HULL: Yes.

1097 1:08:33

MR. ZANGENEH: Which a year later was sold for $600.

1098 1:08:36

MARY HULL: Correct.

1099 1:08:37

MR. ZANGENEH: All right.

1100 1:08:50

MR. ZANGENEH: Now, this is the person — is this the person that bought the vehicle from Mr. Garcia?

1101 1:08:50

MARY HULL: I can't see it well enough.

1102 1:08:59

MARY HULL: We can't read it from here. I'm sorry.

1103 1:09:02

MR. ZANGENEH: I can barely read it from where I'm at.

1104 1:09:06

MR. ZANGENEH: That's the July 24th, 2015 date right there.

1105 1:09:09

MARY HULL: Now, yes, I see it.

1106 1:09:10

MR. ZANGENEH: And it confirms again right here that the purchase price was $600, all right?

1107 1:09:16

MARY HULL: That is correct.

1108 1:09:22

MR. ZANGENEH: Now in any of these documents that the government listed, do you see a purchase price — a purchase price for Mr. Garcia buying that vehicle a year before he sold it for $600?

1109 1:09:22

MARY HULL: I do not.

1110 1:09:22

MR. ZANGENEH: You'll agree with me that you had the person that he purchased it from, correct?

1111 1:09:22

MARY HULL: Yes.

1112 1:09:46

MR. ZANGENEH: Did you make any efforts to contact this person to see what the sale of the vehicle was?

1113 1:09:51

MARY HULL: I did not.

1114 1:10:03

MR. ZANGENEH: Do you agree with me that your testimony here is to inform the jury of purchases that my client made post-murder, correct?

1115 1:10:11

MARY HULL: Yes.

1116 1:10:12

MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll agree with me that it would be important and imperative to be able to educate the members of this jury as to how much this 1984 Monte Carlo actually cost, correct?

1117 1:10:21

MARY HULL: Yes.

1118 1:10:22

MR. ZANGENEH: You'll agree with me that there is documentation which shows a year later that was sold for six hundred dollars, correct?

1119 1:10:22

JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.

1120 1:10:42

MR. ZANGENEH: We also had discussions with regards to a motorcycle, correct?

1121 1:10:46

MARY HULL: That is correct.

1122 1:10:47

MR. ZANGENEH: And this is Government's Exhibit 102, correct, ma'am?

1123 1:10:50

MARY HULL: Yes.

1124 1:10:51

MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And that is a 1997 Honda motorcycle, correct?

1125 1:10:59

MARY HULL: Yes. Yes.

1126 1:11:01

MR. ZANGENEH: And?

1127 1:11:18

MARY HULL: Law enforcement did.

1128 1:11:23

MARY HULL: Yes.

1129 1:11:34

MR. ZANGENEH: Is that correct, ma'am?

1130 1:11:36

MARY HULL: Yes.

1131 1:11:43

MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, and what is the date you testified on direct examination, August 12th, 2014?

1132 1:11:51

MARY HULL: August 22nd.

1133 1:11:55

MR. ZANGENEH: I'm sorry. In 2014, roughly in the same time period that you testified.

1134 1:12:07

MR. ZANGENEH: Indicate purchase price?

1135 1:12:14

MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, ma'am.

1136 1:12:26

MARY HULL: Yes, I wouldn't think so.

1137 1:12:34

MR. ZANGENEH: And last but not least, a 2000 Nissan.

1138 1:12:40

MR. ZANGENEH: You recall that?

1139 1:12:42

MARY HULL: Yes.

1140 1:12:42

MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, and that is Government's Exhibit 101, correct?

1141 1:12:45

MARY HULL: I believe so.

1142 1:12:59

MR. ZANGENEH: December 17th, 2014. It says 12-17-2014.

1143 1:13:05

MARY HULL: Yes.

1144 1:13:05

MR. ZANGENEH: Does it have my name?

1145 1:13:09

MARY HULL: It does.

1146 1:13:19

MR. ZANGENEH: The seller here, the seller information is a website, correct?

1147 1:13:21

MARY HULL: I believe so, yes.

1148 1:13:23

MR. ZANGENEH: Nicecarsforless.com, correct?

1149 1:13:25

MARY HULL: Yes.

1150 1:13:27

MR. ZANGENEH: Did you do any due diligence to subpoena or interview anyone from nicecarsforless.com to see what the purchase price of that $2,000 —

1151 1:13:43

MARY HULL: I did not.

1152 1:13:44

MR. ZANGENEH: $1,000, $100, correct?

1153 1:13:50

MARY HULL: That's correct.

1154 1:13:59

MR. ZANGENEH: You testified on the direct examination that you were unable to locate bank records for Mr. Garcia, is that correct?

1155 1:14:07

MARY HULL: For the 2014, 2015 year.

1156 1:14:10

MR. ZANGENEH: What about before that? Did you look before that?

1157 1:14:19

MARY HULL: I don't believe those records were subpoenaed.

1158 1:14:23

MR. ZANGENEH: And by saying that, that means that you were not asked or instructed by the prosecutors to go further back to be able to obtain financial records for Mr. Garcia, is that correct?

1159 1:14:23

MARY HULL: I reviewed what law enforcement had provided me.

1160 1:14:23

MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, so answer's yes, right? You only did — well, let me ask you this way. You only did what you were asked to do, correct?

1161 1:14:23

MARY HULL: I only review the information that's given to me.

1162 1:14:23

MR. ZANGENEH: At any point during your evaluation, do you ask, listen, I want to — I want to go back and look at previous years to see if I can do like a more wide global analyzation of the finances if it's necessary? Did you find it necessary in this case?

1163 1:14:23

MARY HULL: I did not. With — with regards to Mr. Garcia, I did not.

1164 1:15:09

MR. ZANGENEH: You ended — you did indicate that Mr. Garcia received, I believe, two paychecks from Coastal Masonry in 2014, and you found that out how?

1165 1:15:18

MARY HULL: The records for the Coastal Masonry were subpoenaed.

1166 1:15:24

MR. ZANGENEH: You indicated that Mr. Garcia had steady employment in 2016, correct?

1167 1:15:30

MARY HULL: Yes, it was fairly steady, yes.

1168 1:15:32

MR. ZANGENEH: By fairly steady, you mean he got a paycheck every week or two weeks from the same employer?

1169 1:15:37

MARY HULL: Yes.

1170 1:15:37

MR. ZANGENEH: You'll also agree with me that you prepared a chart with regards to Ms. Magbanua that in 2016 one of the highest contributors to her bank account was my client, correct?

1171 1:15:47

MARY HULL: Yes.

1172 1:15:48

MR. ZANGENEH: You're aware that he has two children with Ms. Magbanua, and you're aware that they were living together at that time, correct? Okay. Did it appear that the majority of my client's check would be transferred to Ms. Magbanua's account?

1173 1:16:04

MARY HULL: I couldn't say a majority, but a healthy portion. A healthy portion, it appears.

1174 1:16:19

MR. ZANGENEH: From your testimony, it looks like the government's position is that Ms. Magbanua was paid like an annuity for her involvement in a crime, correct?

1175 1:16:30

MARY HULL: I don't know if I can characterize it by that.

1176 1:16:32

MR. ZANGENEH: Well, it wasn't one lump sum, correct?

1177 1:16:35

MARY HULL: I do not know how the payment was made.

1178 1:16:38

MR. ZANGENEH: You'll agree that your analyzation of the payments given by the Adelson Institute and by Charlie Adelson spanned a long period of time, correct?

1179 1:16:47

MARY HULL: That's correct. Correct.

1180 1:16:48

MR. ZANGENEH: Did you see any such payments like that for Mr. Garcia?

1181 1:16:51

MARY HULL: I did not.

1182 1:16:56

MR. ZANGENEH: Did you see any kind of specific cash withdrawal? Now, you indicated earlier — let me, let me strike that initial question. You indicated earlier that your characterization of the Adelsons was wealthy, correct?

1183 1:17:07

MARY HULL: That's correct.

1184 1:17:08

MR. ZANGENEH: They had money market accounts, multiple investments, correct?

1185 1:17:11

MARY HULL: Yes.

1186 1:17:11

MR. ZANGENEH: Bank accounts?

1187 1:17:12

MARY HULL: Yes. Yes.

1188 1:17:13

MR. ZANGENEH: Substantial holdings in their accounts?

1189 1:17:15

MARY HULL: Yes.

1190 1:17:16

MR. ZANGENEH: In June or July of 2014, did you see what would sum to be a $100,000 withdrawal from any of their financial markets?

1191 1:17:24

MARY HULL: I did not.

1192 1:17:35

MR. ZANGENEH: In May — I'm sorry, in 2016, were you able to see any substantial cash withdrawal from the Adelsons' account?

1193 1:17:44

MARY HULL: In 2016?

1194 1:17:46

MR. ZANGENEH: 2016.

1195 1:17:47

MARY HULL: For what amount?

1196 1:17:49

MR. ZANGENEH: Anything over $30,000 — there were withdrawals, cash withdrawals.

1197 1:17:55

MARY HULL: No, they were for payments for income taxes.

1198 1:18:00

MR. ZANGENEH: I'm sorry, maybe I didn't ask the question. Okay, let me ask it another way. Did you see any substantial cash withdrawals from the Adelsons — whether it's Wendi, Donna, Harvey, or Charlie — cash withdrawals in 2016, substantial ones?

1199 1:18:15

MARY HULL: No.

1200 1:18:25

MR. ZANGENEH: Just one sec?

1201 1:18:25

MARY HULL: No.

1202 1:18:33

MR. ZANGENEH: Thank you for your time. No further questions.

Cross 2 Cross 2 Mary Hull Christopher DeCoste
1203 1:18:36

MR. DECOSTE: Thank you.

1204 1:18:38

MR. DECOSTE: Good afternoon.

1205 1:18:48

MR. DECOSTE: You would agree with me that to make your financial analysis in any case, you need to have all the data, right?

1206 1:18:56

MARY HULL: I can do an analysis on the data that I have.

1207 1:19:00

MR. DECOSTE: You need more than just bits and pieces, right?

1208 1:19:03

MARY HULL: Yes.

1209 1:19:04

MR. DECOSTE: You need to have the full picture, right?

1210 1:19:07

MARY HULL: I do my best to get the full picture, yes.

1211 1:19:12

MR. DECOSTE: Now, you currently work at the Attorney General's Office. You've been there for a couple of years, right?

1212 1:19:16

MARY HULL: Yes.

1213 1:19:16

MR. DECOSTE: Before that, the Department of Financial Services.

1214 1:19:19

MARY HULL: Yes.

1215 1:19:20

MR. DECOSTE: Worked for the state of Florida, right?

1216 1:19:23

MARY HULL: Yes.

1217 1:19:24

MR. DECOSTE: So for about a decade, you've been working as an expert witness for the Leon County State Attorney's Office, correct?

1218 1:19:31

MARY HULL: No, that's not really accurate.

1219 1:19:33

MR. DECOSTE: Hear it. You've been called as an expert witness by them over the past seven years?

1220 1:19:37

MARY HULL: I have been called before, yes.

1221 1:19:39

MR. DECOSTE: Never by the defense. But that doesn't inhibit you here today with me, looking at Ms. Magbanua's finances through clean windows, right?

1222 1:19:52

MARY HULL: That's correct.

1223 1:19:53

MR. DECOSTE: Do you know what I mean by looking at her through clean windows?

1224 1:19:55

MARY HULL: Well, I can only surmise that you wanted me to be fair and balanced, objective.

1225 1:20:14

MR. DECOSTE: Let's go first to the Adelson Institute. You received some documents in your analysis, right?

1226 1:20:21

MARY HULL: Yes.

1227 1:20:22

MR. DECOSTE: Now, let me ask you on that. When you're doing your — your analysis, it's based on what's given to you by the prosecutor?

1228 1:20:27

MARY HULL: Yes.

1229 1:20:28

MR. DECOSTE: Now, you may make requests and say, look, I need more, but you're heavily depending that they're giving you all the information, right?

1230 1:20:35

MARY HULL: Yes.

1231 1:20:35

MR. DECOSTE: Now, in preparation for the testimony today, and in preparation for all the work that you did on the case — and not saying that it's wrong to do — you met with these prosecutors multiple times, communicated with them, right?

1232 1:20:36

MARY HULL: Yes.

1233 1:20:50

MR. DECOSTE: So at some point, you get documentation.

1234 1:20:53

MR. DECOSTE: It's entered in as State's 87, from the Adelson Institute.

1235 1:20:57

MR. DECOSTE: Do you remember that?

1236 1:20:58

MARY HULL: I do.

1237 1:20:59

MR. DECOSTE: Ms. Norris — whether there were other documents that were provided to you. Do you remember those questions?

1238 1:20:59

MARY HULL: Yes.

1239 1:20:59

MR. DECOSTE: And you said no, that they weren't in the packet that you received.

1240 1:21:09

MARY HULL: Correct.

1241 1:21:10

MR. DECOSTE: And presumably not given by the Adelson Institute, right?

1242 1:21:13

MARY HULL: Yes.

1243 1:21:13

MR. DECOSTE: By law, none of those documents are required though, right?

1244 1:21:17

MARY HULL: Required under the subpoena? No.

1245 1:21:21

MR. DECOSTE: So there is no requirement in the state of Florida for a business to describe, as part of their employee file, what somebody does for the business, right?

1246 1:21:31

MARY HULL: Correct.

1247 1:21:32

MR. DECOSTE: It's not required by law that there's a job application, right?

1248 1:21:35

MARY HULL: You — you suppose.

1249 1:21:39

MR. DECOSTE: What do you mean, you suppose?

1250 1:21:40

MARY HULL: I don't know if there's a gradient on that.

1251 1:21:42

MR. DECOSTE: There is no law requiring an application, but there was a response to the subpoena with documents, right?

1252 1:21:49

MARY HULL: Yes.

1253 1:21:50

MR. DECOSTE: And these are documents that you could then corroborate through taxes that have been paid by the business over the time periods of the checks, right?

1254 1:21:58

MARY HULL: Yes.

1255 1:22:32

MR. DECOSTE: I'm going to turn you over to State's — They — they were sequentially numbered checks.

1256 1:22:36

MR. DECOSTE: Do you know the work schedule of Donna Adelson?

1257 1:22:40

MARY HULL: I do not.

1258 1:22:41

MR. DECOSTE: When she takes vacations?

1259 1:22:43

MARY HULL: No.

1260 1:22:43

MR. DECOSTE: What day she comes in during the week?

1261 1:22:46

MARY HULL: No, I do not.

1262 1:22:47

MR. DECOSTE: What about other employees? Were you asked to do an analysis on how checks were written for Clariza Lebredo?

1263 1:22:53

MARY HULL: No.

1264 1:22:54

MR. DECOSTE: Erika Johnson?

1265 1:22:55

MARY HULL: No.

1266 1:22:55

MR. DECOSTE: Whether, you know, Ms. Adelson came in one day a week, wrote checks, was gone the next week — you don't know that, do you?

1267 1:23:02

MARY HULL: I do not.

1268 1:23:02

MR. DECOSTE: To come to a conclusion on that, you need to have all the information, right? A conclusion on the sequential checks, that there's something nefarious going on — sequential checks.

1269 1:23:18

MARY HULL: I — I don't think there's anything nefarious about that, yes.

1270 1:23:32

MR. DECOSTE: Right.

1271 1:23:38

MARY HULL: Yes. Yes.

1272 1:24:09

MR. DECOSTE: All right, so let's take lines 11, 12. The memo line is January.

1273 1:24:14

MARY HULL: Yes.

1274 1:24:15

MR. DECOSTE: And presumably the work here?

1275 1:24:17

MARY HULL: Yes.

1276 1:24:25

MR. DECOSTE: On February 12th.

1277 1:24:32

MR. DECOSTE: The pay period is February 26th. And then the next one.

1278 1:24:39

MR. DECOSTE: March 11th. So isn't this in line with somebody working and then receiving a check and depositing it?

1279 1:24:46

MARY HULL: It would represent that, yes.

1280 1:24:48

MR. DECOSTE: And doesn't this whole document actually represent that?

1281 1:24:51

MARY HULL: Yes.

1282 1:24:52

MR. DECOSTE: Well over 90% of the time, except for — the jurors will be able to look at it.

1283 1:25:05

MARY HULL: Yes.

1284 1:25:05

MR. DECOSTE: How Ms. Magbanua was receiving her checks?

1285 1:25:11

MARY HULL: I do not. Whether they were mailed, I do not.

1286 1:25:15

MR. DECOSTE: Whether they were hand delivered by one of the employees?

1287 1:25:17

MARY HULL: I do not.

1288 1:25:19

MR. DECOSTE: Now along those lines, do you even know what she was doing for work?

1289 1:25:22

MARY HULL: I do not.

1290 1:25:23

MR. DECOSTE: You were asked questions about how she was paid around the time of breast surgery. Do you remember that?

1291 1:25:29

MARY HULL: Yes.

1292 1:26:06

MR. DECOSTE: And the dates that we're talking about was that she has breast surgery, and how she's still receiving checks around that time period, right?

1293 1:26:14

MARY HULL: Yes.

1294 1:26:18

MR. DECOSTE: Do you know whether breast surgery would inhibit her from doing the job that she was doing for the Adelson Institute?

1295 1:26:23

MARY HULL: I do not.

1296 1:26:26

MR. DECOSTE: Because again, you don't know what her work was.

1297 1:26:28

MARY HULL: That's correct.

1298 1:26:29

MR. DECOSTE: Or whether she would have actually missed work.

1299 1:26:31

MARY HULL: That's correct.

1300 1:26:32

MR. DECOSTE: For instance, if her job was to log on to the computer, contact patients, that could be something that could be done from bed.

1301 1:26:39

MARY HULL: I'd leave home.

1302 1:26:56

MR. DECOSTE: Now to government, and this is in reference to some text messages. You were asked by the government — here it is.

1303 1:27:46

MARY HULL: Yes, it is.

1304 1:27:46

MR. DECOSTE: Around the same time frame — is this anything different?

1305 1:27:54

MARY HULL: Normally you would have all that information before you started working.

1306 1:27:58

MR. DECOSTE: Depends on the business, though, right?

1307 1:28:00

MARY HULL: Normally you have all the information of your employees before you start working there.

1308 1:28:21

MR. DECOSTE: And your basis of knowledge on that is based on all companies in the state of Florida? Let's go.

1309 1:28:30

MARY HULL: Now, that's correct. That's

1310 1:28:46

MR. DECOSTE: correct. Isn't that then giving inaccurate information by saying that for 2013?

1311 1:28:46

MARY HULL: It's accurate based on the records I have, and I do denote that I do not have any records from January to July.

1312 1:28:46

MR. DECOSTE: And you denote it by putting a dash?

1313 1:28:57

MARY HULL: Yes.

1314 1:28:57

MR. DECOSTE: But the government didn't ask you what that dash means.

1315 1:29:13

MARY HULL: It means it's zero.

1316 1:29:15

MR. DECOSTE: We know that now, right?

1317 1:29:17

MARY HULL: I knew it then.

1318 1:29:18

MR. DECOSTE: No, no, no, no. We in this courtroom, we know that now. Because I just asked you, right?

1319 1:29:23

MARY HULL: If you look at the summary — the summary that comes from — it shows that I have partial records.

1320 1:29:29

MR. DECOSTE: You're correct.

1321 1:29:43

MARY HULL: That is correct.

1322 1:29:48

MARY HULL: That's most likely correct.

1323 1:30:05

MR. DECOSTE: We were talking about needing to have full information and not bits and pieces.

1324 1:30:22

MR. DECOSTE: Did the government evidence for your analysis that Ms. Magbanua, starting in late 2013 and continuing for years, was working receiving cash tips?

1325 1:30:39

MARY HULL: I based that on the bank records, and I do not have anything that would show she worked and made cash tips.

1326 1:31:02

MARY HULL: I was not given information. I was given the bank records.

1327 1:31:35

MR. DECOSTE: Had you been given information, evidence, that she was working a cash job starting in late 2013 and going years into the future, would that have changed the analysis? Evidence — we'll cycle back to it. In your review that she was working in a nightclub?

1328 1:31:37

MARY HULL: I was not.

1329 1:31:39

MR. DECOSTE: You received her bank records, right?

1330 1:31:42

MARY HULL: Yes. Bank of America.

1331 1:31:42

MR. DECOSTE: You went through all of those records?

1332 1:31:42

MARY HULL: I did.

1333 1:31:50

MR. DECOSTE: And specifically, you went through her — her checking account, 8980-0426-6984.

1334 1:31:58

MARY HULL: Yes.

1335 1:34:02

MR. DECOSTE: Ms. Hull, you know what that is, right?

1336 1:34:05

MARY HULL: Yes.

1337 1:34:06

MR. DECOSTE: Exhibit number one.

1338 1:34:07

MR. DECOSTE: Showing you what's been pre-marked as Defense 14?

1339 1:34:11

MARY HULL: Yes.

1340 1:34:13

MR. DECOSTE: That's a printout of one of the pages of bank records for Ms. Magbanua's Bank of America account.

1341 1:34:19

MARY HULL: Yes.

1342 1:34:19

MR. DECOSTE: And you recognize that because you've gone through all of her bank records?

1343 1:34:23

MARY HULL: That's correct.

1344 1:34:23

MR. DECOSTE: And that's a fair and accurate depiction of her bank records, or of that page?

1345 1:34:27

MARY HULL: Yes.

1346 1:34:27

MR. DECOSTE: Move in what's been pre-marked as Defense 14.

1347 1:34:55

JUDGE HANKINSON: I assume this is one that the jury can understand, we're taking pieces of a whole list.

1348 1:35:17

MR. DECOSTE: Fate. Cash tips. For April 2015.

1349 1:35:20

MARY HULL: Yes, that's the way the check was written.

1350 1:35:22

MR. DECOSTE: That's not in any of the analysis that you've done, right?

1351 1:35:24

MARY HULL: It is. It's just that that check bounced, and so did the other one.

1352 1:35:29

MARY HULL: So the net amount for that was zero. I did not show it on my analysis.

1353 1:35:40

MR. DECOSTE: — that she's working at a nightclub until — May of 2015?

1354 1:35:42

MARY HULL: Yes.

1355 1:35:49

MR. DECOSTE: Now, I want to go back quickly to the government's demonstrative.

1356 1:35:52

MARY HULL: I did.

1357 1:35:53

MR. DECOSTE: Now, you have there Adelson Institute, October 7th. Why October 7th?

1358 1:35:59

MARY HULL: That was the day it hit her account.

1359 1:36:05

MR. DECOSTE: You're talking about the first check that was deposited?

1360 1:36:07

MARY HULL: Yes.

1361 1:36:27

MR. DECOSTE: When we come back to all these cash deposits, you can't say where any of this cash came from, right?

1362 1:36:34

MARY HULL: That's correct.

1363 1:36:35

MR. DECOSTE: Whether it came from work, receiving tips at a nightclub, right?

1364 1:36:45

MARY HULL: Seems like an awful lot for tips.

1365 1:36:47

MR. DECOSTE: Have you ever worked as a bottle girl in a nightclub in Miami?

1366 1:36:51

MARY HULL: No, I have not.

1367 1:36:52

MR. DECOSTE: Would you then be unable to make that opinion as to how much one would make?

1368 1:36:59

MARY HULL: — done a lot of bookkeeping for a different —

1369 1:36:59

MR. DECOSTE: All right. So — so then, if you could tell this jury, what's the standard amount that one would make working as a VIP bottle girl in Miami, at a club — Club Fate — if you know.

1370 1:37:13

MR. DECOSTE: Now, you have no way to determine whether it came from Adelson, from Club Fate, from Sigfredo Garcia, do you?

1371 1:37:13

MARY HULL: I do not.

1372 1:37:32

MR. DECOSTE: I want to turn over now to Sigfredo Garcia and Luis Rivera.

1373 1:37:36

MR. DECOSTE: You were given bank records for them?

1374 1:37:38

MARY HULL: The records that were available, yes.

1375 1:37:41

MR. DECOSTE: No sizable deposits into their accounts?

1376 1:37:45

MARY HULL: I'm not sure what you mean by sizable.

1377 1:38:12

MR. DECOSTE: Your belief is that this is money for a murder. — to — turn your attention over to government's one, you talked about deposits made by Ms. Magbanua, right? And you're talking about how, on a given day, multiple —

1378 1:38:25

MARY HULL: Yes.

1379 1:38:25

MR. DECOSTE: Now, in fact, those are deposits made at different banks on the same day, right?

1380 1:38:36

MARY HULL: I would believe so. I'd have to look if there's another chart done that represented what bank was used.

1381 1:38:36

MR. DECOSTE: In this, show the account number?

1382 1:38:42

MARY HULL: Yes.

1383 1:38:42

MR. DECOSTE: All right. So — so if we look at...

1384 1:38:59

MARY HULL: Yes, I noticed it.

1385 1:39:00

MR. DECOSTE: Do you happen to know the maximum amount of deposits Ms. Magbanua could make at her respective accounts — whether it was $300, $500, $800? Do you know that?

1386 1:39:09

MARY HULL: I do not.

1387 1:39:09

MR. DECOSTE: Do you happen to know the costs — what it would cost her to transfer money from one account to the other?

1388 1:39:15

MARY HULL: There's never any cost for transfers.

1389 1:39:18

MR. DECOSTE: To make a transfer in between different banks — are you aware if there's a cost or not?

1390 1:39:24

MARY HULL: I do not know.

1391 1:39:25

MR. DECOSTE: All right, so just to make sure that it's clear, because my question was —

1392 1:39:38

MARY HULL: Yes — I would have known that there was a charge for that. It would have showed up in my analysis.

1393 1:39:53

MR. DECOSTE: That's great.

1394 1:39:59

MR. DECOSTE: — $50 charge for making a transfer in between banks.

1395 1:40:06

MR. DECOSTE: Also, with respect to the ATMs — you didn't do any sort of analysis to determine whether they were miles away or right next door to each other?

1396 1:40:13

MARY HULL: No.

1397 1:40:45

MR. DECOSTE: So in your analysis, you're looking at around the time of the homicide, which is 2014, to make a determination — That's what it shows. She made — often made — cash deposits in 2013. That's not a date of interest in this case, right?

1398 1:40:45

MARY HULL: It was for me. I base my analysis on the records that I have.

1399 1:40:57

MR. DECOSTE: Yes. You know about this case from your meetings with the government, from the news, right?

1400 1:41:01

MARY HULL: I know about this case from the records I've seen.

1401 1:41:04

MR. DECOSTE: But you also know about it from the news as well, right?

1402 1:41:04

MARY HULL: I watch some of the news, but it's not something I rely on. I base my information on the records.

1403 1:41:04

MR. DECOSTE: And I wasn't trying to insinuate that. The reason why I asked — and I'm going to tie this into a question — is because you know the relevant dates of the case.

1404 1:41:21

MARY HULL: Yes.

1405 1:41:46

MR. DECOSTE: In fact, Ms. Magbanua didn't even know Mr. Adelson in 2013, the middle part of 2013. Do you know that? Do you know when Charlie Adelson met Katherine Magbanua?

1406 1:41:48

MARY HULL: I do not.

1407 1:41:49

MR. DECOSTE: Do you know of any significance of anything happening in 2013 with respect to this case?

1408 1:41:54

MARY HULL: Could you rephrase that question?

1409 1:41:57

MR. DECOSTE: Do you know of anything of significance happening on this case in the year 2013?

1410 1:42:51

MR. DECOSTE: Let's talk about purchases now. Okay, looking at it through clean windows: the year 2014, Ms. Magbanua — she has breast surgery, right?

1411 1:42:51

MARY HULL: Yes.

1412 1:42:51

MR. DECOSTE: No big purchases that you know of, like cars and stuff like that. 2015?

1413 1:42:52

MARY HULL: No.

1414 1:42:52

MR. DECOSTE: Eventually she buys a Lexus from Harvey Adelson, right?

1415 1:42:52

MARY HULL: There is a Lexus in her name. I never found a payment for it.

1416 1:43:37

MR. DECOSTE: But again, you don't know the source of the cash. Could it not have been a situation that she takes her tip wages — 17 — and we see it in the 2013 transaction, one day — could it not have been a situation that she takes her cash tips and uses that to purchase the vehicle?

1417 1:43:43

MARY HULL: Yes, except that I didn't see any corresponding deposits into the Adelsons' accounts.

1418 1:43:49

MR. DECOSTE: Would you agree with me that sometimes people don't deposit cash?

1419 1:43:54

MARY HULL: That's true.

1420 1:44:01

MR. DECOSTE: We have a title of the vehicle. The title shows that the vehicle was purchased, right?

1421 1:44:07

MARY HULL: It shows an amount, a purchase amount.

1422 1:44:09

MR. DECOSTE: The evidence that we have in this case — and it's admitted in — the evidence shows that it was paid for, right?

1423 1:44:14

MS. NORRIS: Objection, asked and answered.

1424 1:44:15

JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.

1425 1:44:17

MR. DECOSTE: If you could.

1426 1:44:18

MARY HULL: It shows that she paid $1,700 for it.

1427 1:44:21

MR. DECOSTE: Now, again, you went through all of Katherine Magbanua's Bank of America accounts, right?

1428 1:44:27

MARY HULL: Yes.

1429 1:44:27

MR. DECOSTE: Every transaction, line for line.

1430 1:44:29

MARY HULL: Yes.

1431 1:44:31

MR. DECOSTE: I'm handing you what has been premarked as Defense 13.

1432 1:44:40

MR. DECOSTE: That's some of the transactions on Katherine Magbanua's checking account for Bank of America.

1433 1:44:50

MARY HULL: Yes.

1434 1:44:50

MR. DECOSTE: And that is in the same or substantially the same condition it was in when you reviewed it, when you looked at all the records?

1435 1:44:57

MARY HULL: Yes. The

1436 1:45:24

MR. DECOSTE: records are — it is — oh, the State's exhibit number? No, I don't, but it's the Bank of America.

1437 1:45:29

JUDGE HANKINSON: In the future it'd be helpful, if you're going to pull a piece out, to let us know this is a portion of what's already part of the record, and then everybody will be a little clearer on what you're doing.

1438 1:45:29

MR. DECOSTE: Absolutely, Your Honor. We'll do it.

1439 1:45:29

MR. DECOSTE: Defense Exhibit 13.

1440 1:45:47

MR. DECOSTE: And, Ms. Hull, your belief is that that Lexus —

1441 1:45:47

MARY HULL: I believe she got a gift from the family.

1442 1:45:47

MR. DECOSTE: Yes.

1443 1:46:07

MR. DECOSTE: Yet she's paying for the Adelson Institute dental work. You agree with me that she's paying for dental work, right?

1444 1:46:07

MARY HULL: That's what it would appear to me, going into their business account.

1445 1:46:07

MARY HULL: Yes.

1446 1:46:07

MR. DECOSTE: It doesn't really seem like something that one would do if they helped out the murder, right?

1447 1:46:25

MARY HULL: I'm not sure I understand that question.

1448 1:46:27

MR. DECOSTE: Your belief is that they gifted her this vehicle, right?

1449 1:46:31

MARY HULL: I could not find a payment for it.

1450 1:46:33

MR. DECOSTE: Yet she's paying them for what they do as part of their business.

1451 1:46:38

MR. DECOSTE: Okay. Only coming out on cross-examination.

1452 1:46:46

MS. NORRIS: Objection. Argumentative.

1453 1:46:46

JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.

1454 1:46:54

MR. DECOSTE: Now let's go back to people buying things.

1455 1:46:57

MR. DECOSTE: In the year 2010, what did Luis Rivera, Sigfredo Garcia, or Katherine Magbanua buy that was a big purchase?

1456 1:47:04

MARY HULL: I did not have records for 2010.

1457 1:47:07

MR. DECOSTE: 2011?

1458 1:47:08

MARY HULL: I do not have the records before 2013.

1459 1:47:11

MR. DECOSTE: You would agree with me, as human beings we acquire things in the course of our lives.

1460 1:47:16

MARY HULL: Yes.

1461 1:47:17

MR. DECOSTE: We make big purchases.

1462 1:47:19

MARY HULL: Some people do.

1463 1:47:23

MR. DECOSTE: Wouldn't it be looking at Ms. Magbanua and the other defendants through dirty windows to assume that any purchase that was made was therefore nefarious and tied to a crime?

1464 1:47:32

MS. NORRIS: Objection, argumentative.

1465 1:47:36

JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.

1466 1:47:38

MR. DECOSTE: You have no way to say that any of these purchases are tied to a crime, do you?

1467 1:47:42

MARY HULL: I do not.

1468 1:47:54

MR. DECOSTE: Turning back over to you, you have no way to say that that must be the case?

1469 1:47:54

MARY HULL: I do not.

1470 1:47:59

MR. DECOSTE: Nor do you have the ability to be able to say that it came from her cash tips at one of the nightclubs that she was working at for nearly two years?

1471 1:48:07

MARY HULL: I do not.

1472 1:48:23

MARY HULL: I don't know any specific dates of their relationship.

1473 1:48:26

MR. DECOSTE: But you do know — you said relationship. You do know that they were dating at some point.

1474 1:48:30

MARY HULL: Yes.

1475 1:48:31

MR. DECOSTE: Would you agree with me that it's consistent with a relationship that one buys the other things?

1476 1:48:37

MARY HULL: Yes.

1477 1:48:37

MR. DECOSTE: Takes them on vacations?

1478 1:48:39

MARY HULL: Yes.

1479 1:48:40

MR. DECOSTE: Maybe to Key West?

1480 1:48:42

MARY HULL: Possibly.

1481 1:48:42

MR. DECOSTE: That is not abnormal behavior.

1482 1:48:45

MARY HULL: No.

1483 1:49:12

MR. DECOSTE: From heroin, when do the large cash deposits?

1484 1:49:19

MARY HULL: Large cash deposits?

1485 1:49:22

MR. DECOSTE: Looks like on that, May or April. I can't see.

1486 1:49:27

MARY HULL: I could look at my chart.

1487 1:49:27

MR. DECOSTE: I'm wrong that in May there's a $2,000 deposit and it drops down to $221?

1488 1:49:36

MARY HULL: Yes.

1489 1:49:37

MR. DECOSTE: When was Sigfredo Garcia arrested?

1490 1:49:39

MARY HULL: In May.

1491 1:49:41

MR. DECOSTE: So how can this not be consistent with Sigfredo Garcia giving money via cash payment, and that it drops off at exactly the time that he's arrested?

1492 1:49:54

MARY HULL: Her payments from the Adelsons stopped at the same time too.

1493 1:49:58

MR. DECOSTE: You agreed with me to look at this through clean windows, though, right? I'm giving you the information. I know, for this jury — there's no way to say one over the other over the other, though, right?

1494 1:50:14

MARY HULL: I know when the checks from the Adelsons stopped. We're talking about cashier — Correct.

1495 1:50:21

MR. DECOSTE: Okay. So there's no way for you to say that that cash is coming from an Adelson versus Sigfredo Garcia versus the nightclub, right?

1496 1:50:22

MARY HULL: Correct.

1497 1:50:32

MR. DECOSTE: And there's no higher probability of one over the other. You can't. I— Let me know if you need me to help you.

1498 1:50:36

MR. DECOSTE: You can't say— yeah, you can't—

1499 1:50:38

JUDGE HANKINSON: Stop. You've got to answer the question.

1500 1:50:42

MR. DECOSTE: Oh, Your Honor, she asked me to rephrase it.

1501 1:50:44

JUDGE HANKINSON: Is that what she said?

1502 1:50:45

MARY HULL: Yes, please rephrase.

1503 1:50:46

MR. DECOSTE: Sorry, Your Honor.

1504 1:50:47

MR. DECOSTE: There's no way for you to say, well, it's more likely that it came from an Adelson than it came from a nightclub or Sigfredo Garcia, right?

1505 1:50:53

MARY HULL: Right.

1506 1:50:54

MR. DECOSTE: And to be fair, there's no way for you to say that it's more likely it came from a nightclub or Sigfredo Garcia than an Adelson, right?

1507 1:51:02

MARY HULL: Correct.

1508 1:51:02

MR. DECOSTE: The government asked you about text messages of Charlie Adelson, right?

1509 1:51:07

MARY HULL: Yes.

1510 1:51:14

MR. DECOSTE: They gave you a CD, right?

1511 1:51:17

MARY HULL: Yes.

1512 1:51:18

MR. DECOSTE: And on that CD, it had a program called the Cellebrite Reader.

1513 1:51:21

MARY HULL: Actually, I reviewed them prior to that, before they were on the Cellebrite.

1514 1:51:27

MR. DECOSTE: But you were able to look at many, many different transactions with a bunch of different information, and a lot of the text messages, right?

1515 1:51:34

MARY HULL: Yes. Yes.

1516 1:51:35

MR. DECOSTE: And you looked at it with the same level of detail as you looked at her financial records?

1517 1:51:41

MARY HULL: The original format was very difficult to read.

1518 1:51:46

MR. DECOSTE: But you were still able to find out the body of the message, right?

1519 1:51:49

MARY HULL: Yes.

1520 1:51:50

MR. DECOSTE: You were asked about text messages in and around September with respect to Ms. Magbanua's employment.

1521 1:51:56

MARY HULL: I reviewed all of the messages, actually.

1522 1:52:02

MR. DECOSTE: One second, Your Honor.

1523 1:53:00

MR. DECOSTE: Ms. Hull, just one brief moment.

1524 1:53:02

MARY HULL: Sure.

1525 1:53:20

MR. DECOSTE: So the line of question I'm going to have for you is going to be about this text message that you talked about. Again, this is September 2014.

1526 1:53:29

MR. DECOSTE: This is right around the time period that checks from the Adelson Institute begin, correct?

1527 1:53:36

MARY HULL: Yes.

1528 1:54:25

MR. DECOSTE: Paul — I'm handing you what's been pre-marked as 15 and 16.

1529 1:54:29

MARY HULL: Okay.

1530 1:54:31

MR. DECOSTE: Can we take a look at those?

1531 1:54:32

MR. DECOSTE: You know what those are, right?

1532 1:54:41

MARY HULL: I've actually never seen this format, but it looks like the text messages from Charlie Adelson's iCloud.

1533 1:54:48

MR. DECOSTE: Now, you know that because the body of the text messages is in there, and you've reviewed all the text messages, right?

1534 1:54:55

MARY HULL: I've reviewed many of them, yes.

1535 1:54:57

MR. DECOSTE: And those fairly and accurately depict the messages in between Katherine Magbanua and Charlie Adelson, right?

1536 1:55:04

MARY HULL: This only says to and from. It's an index, not any messages.

1537 1:55:04

MR. DECOSTE: If you could take a look at the bottom right-hand corner where it says "body."

1538 1:55:11

MARY HULL: Okay.

1539 1:55:14

MARY HULL: All right.

1540 1:55:15

MR. DECOSTE: And if you would take a look now at what's been pre-marked as Defense 16.

1541 1:55:26

MR. DECOSTE: You also know what that is, right?

1542 1:55:29

MARY HULL: Like I said, this is not the format I originally was looking at.

1543 1:55:32

MR. DECOSTE: The information, though, is the same as what you reviewed, right?

1544 1:55:39

MARY HULL: The information should have been the same as I reviewed, yes.

1545 1:55:42

MR. DECOSTE: And the dates correspond to the dates of the other text message that the government entered in, right?

1546 1:55:42

MARY HULL: Yes.

1547 1:55:42

MR. DECOSTE: Moving in what's been pre-marked as Defense 15 and 16.

1548 1:55:51

MS. NORRIS: Your Honor, can we have a sidebar? Thank you.

1549 1:57:53

JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's let the jury step out.

Procedural 3 Proc. 3 Magbanua Text-Message Exhibit Rulings
1550 1:58:20

JUDGE HANKINSON: We're going to take a break for a minute, and during the break, Mr. DeCoste, I want you to give to the State any of the text messages that you intend to introduce.

1551 1:58:32

JUDGE HANKINSON: There is a difference between the State putting in what your client says and you putting in what your client says. So you need to give them what you intend to offer, and then we'll have discussion about it. We'll take ten minutes.

1552 2:12:01

MS. NORRIS: Your Honor, the defense allowed me to review proposed Exhibits 15 through 20, and I do have an objection to hearsay — self-serving hearsay.

1553 2:12:01

JUDGE HANKINSON: As to all of them?

1554 2:12:10

MS. NORRIS: Yes, sir.

1555 2:12:10

JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. Mr. DeCoste.

1556 2:12:16

MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor.

1557 2:12:18

MR. DECOSTE: The government has entered into evidence text messages from September of 2014 in relation to Ms. Magbanua's work at the Adelson Institute to insinuate that there is something nefarious going on. I'm seeking to bring in text messages from exactly that same time frame that talk about her employment, talk about her having a schedule there, which would be consistent with actual work. Now, there's two cases I'd want to read into the record. The first is Guerrero v. State, 532 So. 2d 75.

1558 2:12:46

MR. DECOSTE: "As a general rule, defendants' out-of-court, self-serving, exculpatory statements are inadmissible hearsay. However, where the State has opened the door" — which they have here — "by eliciting testimony as a part of that conversation, a defendant is entitled to cross-examine the witness about other relevant statements made during the conversation."

1559 2:13:05

MR. DECOSTE: Also, out of the 5th District, we have Antoury — that's A-N-T-O-U-R-Y — v. State, 943 So. 2d 906. Again, that's a 5th DCA case from 2006. Quote: "The reason for this rule is to ensure that the jury understands the entire context of statements elicited by the State and is not misled by exclusion of relevant sections of the conversation."

1560 2:13:31

JUDGE HANKINSON: Now, this isn't just confined within time, but what I really need to do is see the text messages you're talking about.

1561 2:13:46

MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, first, may I approach?

1562 2:13:47

JUDGE HANKINSON: Let me have them all.

1563 2:13:59

MR. DECOSTE: There's four different topics.

1564 2:14:07

JUDGE HANKINSON: The one you're making relates to which exhibit?

1565 2:14:09

MR. DECOSTE: It should be the top one. They're the ones that are dated for September. There's two of them. I'm sorry, I don't have the numbers.

1566 2:14:17

JUDGE HANKINSON: 15 and 16.

1567 2:14:20

MR. DECOSTE: Correct, Your Honor.

1568 2:15:15

JUDGE HANKINSON: Overrule the State's objection as to 15 and 16. But what was the other one?

1569 2:15:15

MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, as to the next grouping, there should be two, and it should be the next one that you have up. There's two sets of messages with respect to loans that were given by Charlie Adelson to Katherine Magbanua. The government has brought out in several of their exhibits monies given to Katherine Magbanua to make it look like she's getting a gift — and his co-defendant's counsel said an annuity — for being involved in the murder. What we have puts that into proper context: that she's paying him back for these loans.

1570 2:15:53

JUDGE HANKINSON: And that's Defense Exhibit 17 and 18.

1571 2:15:58

MR. DECOSTE: I apologize, Your Honor, I didn't organize which number was which. I was going off the documents themselves. That's correct, but it should be those, right — talking about a loan.

1572 2:16:28

JUDGE HANKINSON: I sustain the State's objection as to 17 and 18. You make those part of the record, but they're not to go to the jury. I find them to be hearsay. And we have 19. What is this? Is this notes of yours?

1573 2:16:31

MR. DECOSTE: Oh, yeah. That's my cross.

1574 2:16:43

JUDGE HANKINSON: Well, It's clear. I'm admitting 15 and 16.

1575 2:17:02

MR. DECOSTE: Number 19 and number 20. Number 19 has to do with something that just is that Ms. Magbanua saw Harvey Adelson for dental work, not introducing it for the truth of the matter asserted.

1576 2:17:08

JUDGE HANKINSON: I'll sustain the objection to 19.

1577 2:17:15

MR. DECOSTE: It's important to note first, and I — I know that the court already knows that this witness has been presented as an expert witness to evaluate the finances of Katherine Magbanua.

1578 2:17:23

MR. DECOSTE: Information that was not provided to her was her employment at nightclubs for years.

1579 2:17:28

MR. DECOSTE: It's giving the insinuation that there is off-the-books cash being received and deposited.

1580 2:17:34

MR. DECOSTE: This expert, if she were given all of the information, including what is Defense number 20, it would change that analysis. The text message that you have is from mid to late 2015, where Ms. Magbanua is talking about quitting the job where she's receiving cash tips at the nightclub. I believe that it is integral, and again, not introducing it for the truth of the matter asserted. This is an expert witness who's testifying about my client's finances, and this supports where she's getting her finances from.

1581 2:18:03

JUDGE HANKINSON: This expert witness has not testified to anything that doesn't relate to a financial transaction that was observed. And I know you might be thinking, well, with Sergeant Corbitt I let in some other stuff, but he offered opinions that were based upon text messages. This witness has not done so.

1582 2:18:25

JUDGE HANKINSON: I sustain the objection as to 20. So, are we ready for the jury?

1583 2:18:33

MS. NORRIS: Yes, sir.

Cross 3 Cross 3 Mary Hull Christopher DeCoste
1584 2:18:34

JUDGE HANKINSON: All right, let's have the jury in, please.

1585 2:19:04

BAILIFF: All rise for the jury.

1586 2:19:25

JUDGE HANKINSON: Sorry for the delay, folks. Every once in a while, I have to earn my money.

1587 2:19:31

JUDGE HANKINSON: Everybody be seated, please.

1588 2:19:40

MR. DECOSTE: Defense moves in what's been pre-marked as Defense 15 and 16.

1589 2:19:44

JUDGE HANKINSON: I've already admitted them.

1590 2:19:46

MR. DECOSTE: Ms. Hull, you remember testifying to this jury talking about text messages regarding Ms. Magbanua and her employment at the Adelson Institute, right?

1591 2:20:10

MARY HULL: Yes. Yes, there was some information that was sent in a Yes, I don't recall any additional ones.

1592 2:20:18

MARY HULL: Yes.

1593 2:20:30

MR. DECOSTE: And you need all of number 15, right?

1594 2:20:32

MARY HULL: That's what it says in the memo field.

1595 2:20:35

MR. DECOSTE: In this exhibit, Katherine Magbanua was sending a text message to Charlie.

1596 2:20:56

MARY HULL: Yes, I can read that.

1597 2:20:57

MR. DECOSTE: You can read it to the jury, please.

1598 2:20:59

MARY HULL: Sure. "I'll let you know my availability so you can know more or less how many hours I can dedicate, and thank you again."

1599 2:21:07

MR. DECOSTE: That's consistent with working for somebody, right?

1600 2:21:07

MARY HULL: Yes, I believe so.

1601 2:21:15

MR. DECOSTE: Who's been entered as Defense 16.

1602 2:21:17

MR. DECOSTE: Correct me if I'm wrong. This is a text message from Katherine Magbanua to Charlie Adelson, September 17, 2014, again, same time.

1603 2:21:37

MARY HULL: "That's awesome, thank you so much. I'll call them to make sure they put me in the schedule. You said my full name?"

1604 2:21:37

MR. DECOSTE: Now, here's another message from Katherine Magbanua, September 17, 2014.

1605 2:21:54

MR. DECOSTE: If you can read that.

1606 2:21:56

MARY HULL: "No problem, helping me out more than I'm helping you."

1607 2:22:00

MARY HULL: "I'm excited to start. Yay."

1608 2:22:03

MR. DECOSTE: That sounds like somebody who's about to start working for somebody on September 17, correct?

1609 2:22:09

MARY HULL: It could, but it doesn't reference what job.

1610 2:22:13

MR. DECOSTE: We're talking about hours.

1611 2:22:14

MR. DECOSTE: "I'm excited to start."

1612 2:22:16

MR. DECOSTE: You don't need to be an expert in finances to be able to come to a conclusion that that's somebody that's about to start work, right?

1613 2:22:16

MARY HULL: Yeah, possibly. Yes.

1614 2:22:16

MR. DECOSTE: What's the other possible—

1615 2:22:30

MARY HULL: Well, it could be starting a different job, I know.

1616 2:22:34

MR. DECOSTE: Well, correct me if I'm wrong.

1617 2:22:39

MARY HULL: Yes.

1618 2:22:40

MR. DECOSTE: And in the text messages that were admitted—

1619 2:22:46

MARY HULL: Yes. Yes. "Cool."

1620 2:23:15

MARY HULL: "It should work good. I did say you would call, and I did not give your full name, but I just call it very common for "

1621 2:23:29

MR. DECOSTE: Okay. This is the full picture, right?

1622 2:23:31

MARY HULL: It could be, yes.

1623 2:23:37

MR. DECOSTE: Now, The State presented you with some exhibits talking about payment for repairs to a vehicle and loans, right?

1624 2:23:49

MARY HULL: Yes.

1625 2:23:50

MR. DECOSTE: Now, you reviewed the Cellebrite information for Charlie Adelson, right?

1626 2:23:54

MARY HULL: I reviewed the cloud information in a different format. It was just on Excel spreadsheets, but the actual data was not linked like they are in Cellebrite.

1627 2:23:54

MR. DECOSTE: With what you have reviewed, you're aware that these are not the only text messages talking about loans, right? I'm not asking you for the content of it, but there are other text messages talking about loans, right?

1628 2:24:20

MARY HULL: I don't recall any other text messages.

1629 2:24:21

MS. NORRIS: Objection, hearsay.

1630 2:24:23

JUDGE HANKINSON: I think it calls for a yes or no.

1631 2:24:25

MARY HULL: Yes, I don't recall any other text messages.

1632 2:24:31

MR. DECOSTE: Would that be because you haven't seen—

1633 2:24:31

JUDGE HANKINSON: Move on. Last question.

1634 2:24:39

JUDGE HANKINSON: No, move on.

1635 2:24:41

MR. DECOSTE: All right. A brief moment, Joanna.

1636 2:25:07

MR. DECOSTE: This together showed that there was a spike in money going into her account during the time period when she wasn't working, right?

1637 2:25:16

MARY HULL: It was two sets of information that was overlaid.

1638 2:25:21

MR. DECOSTE: With the use of a Kleenex box in the courtroom. I've gotten this.

1639 2:25:36

MR. DECOSTE: If she were to have been working, receiving cash tips at a nightclub between late 2013 and the middle of 2015, we would have an additional bar right in the middle, just like that, right?

1640 2:25:40

MARY HULL: Yes.

1641 2:25:42

MR. DECOSTE: Which would explain why there's increases of cash during a time period when she's not working day jobs and could be working more at night, right?

1642 2:25:50

MARY HULL: I never saw any evidence to indicate she was working at a nightclub in that timeframe.

1643 2:25:58

MR. DECOSTE: And again, your opinion is confined to what they provided, right?

1644 2:26:03

MARY HULL: I had all of the bank records available to me in that timeframe.

1645 2:26:07

MR. DECOSTE: Did you receive any response to subpoenas?

1646 2:26:11

MR. DECOSTE: Did you receive the response to any subpoenas by the Tallahassee Police Department or anybody else at the government with respect to employment records at Club Fate?

1647 2:26:23

MARY HULL: No.

1648 2:26:24

MR. DECOSTE: Hollywood Live?

1649 2:26:26

MARY HULL: No.

1650 2:26:26

MR. DECOSTE: Any witness statements from coworkers, managers, club owners as to the hours that she was working and the amount she was making?

1651 2:26:34

MARY HULL: I saw no evidence that she was working at a nightclub.

1652 2:26:37

MR. DECOSTE: Because it wasn't provided to you, right?

1653 2:26:38

MR. DECOSTE: Right?

1654 2:26:39

MS. NORRIS: Objection.

1655 2:26:42

JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.

1656 2:26:43

MR. DECOSTE: Had you received such information, would your analysis and opinion have been different?

1657 2:26:52

MARY HULL: Anytime there's a difference in information, it does change my analysis.

1658 2:26:56

MR. DECOSTE: Great. Thank you.

1659 2:26:57

MARY HULL: I did not receive any information to indicate she worked at a nightclub.

1660 2:27:03

MR. DECOSTE: And just to make sure that it's crystal clear here, and not to go over something we've gone over, as the financial investigator, you're not out there investigating things like an investigator for the Tallahassee Police Department, right?

1661 2:27:19

MR. DECOSTE: Let me — let me strike that question.

1662 2:27:21

MR. DECOSTE: How many subpoenas did you send out with respect to the analysis on this case?

1663 2:27:26

MARY HULL: I did not send out any.

1664 2:27:28

MR. DECOSTE: Those subpoenas are being sent out by the State Attorney's Office, the Tallahassee Police Department, or any of the other law enforcement to get you the information, right?

1665 2:27:36

MARY HULL: Correct.

1666 2:27:37

MR. DECOSTE: One brief moment, Your Honor.

1667 2:28:32

JUDGE HANKINSON: Why don't you finish your cross before we worry about their redirect?

1668 2:28:36

MR. DECOSTE: I actually think it's done, Your Honor, except I just want to talk with...

1669 2:28:39

JUDGE HANKINSON: All right.

Redirect Redirect Mary Hull Anna Norris
1670 2:28:40

JUDGE HANKINSON: State.

1671 2:28:41

MS. NORRIS: Yes, sir.

1672 2:28:47

JUDGE HANKINSON: Do you have something other than what they're studying?

1673 2:28:50

MS. NORRIS: Yes, sir. I can proceed with that while they're doing that.

1674 2:28:54

MS. NORRIS: In this case, you did have the ability to, if you wanted additional records, request that the State or the law enforcement on your behalf issue subpoenas for additional information.

1675 2:29:04

MARY HULL: Absolutely.

1676 2:29:04

MS. NORRIS: And you actually did that, didn't you?

1677 2:29:06

MARY HULL: Yes, I did.

1678 2:29:06

MS. NORRIS: Okay. You don't have the authority or the power to issue a subpoena in this case.

1679 2:29:10

MARY HULL: That's correct.

1680 2:29:11

MS. NORRIS: I want to go back to the beginning of your cross-examination with respect to the DHSMV records for the Monte Carlo purchased by Sigfredo Garcia.

1681 2:29:22

MARY HULL: Yes.

1682 2:29:23

MS. NORRIS: And you were asked some questions about it being sold a year after the fact for a $600 amount.

1683 2:29:29

MS. NORRIS: Do you know or have any factual knowledge of the circumstances surrounding the sale after Garcia purchased it?

1684 2:29:36

MARY HULL: I do not.

1685 2:29:39

MS. NORRIS: If you know — and I don't know if you know the answer to these questions — when you have a transfer of a vehicle, can you insure a vehicle without transferring title?

1686 2:29:48

MARY HULL: No.

1687 2:29:50

MS. NORRIS: Do you have to put a sale price or list an item as a gift on a title transfer?

1688 2:29:54

MARY HULL: Yes.

1689 2:29:55

MS. NORRIS: Now, if you put a sale item on a title transfer, are you taxed?

1690 2:30:01

MARY HULL: Yes.

1691 2:30:01

MS. NORRIS: Okay. So is there a financial benefit to putting a really low sales price on a title transfer for a vehicle?

1692 2:30:09

MARY HULL: Yes, there is.

1693 2:30:20

MS. NORRIS: And who decides what number goes on the title transfer?

1694 2:30:23

MARY HULL: If it's not on a bill of sale, it's the person that's submitting it to the tax office.

1695 2:30:29

MS. NORRIS: So if I sell something to you — private transaction, Craigslist, I mean anything like that — and we agree on $3,000, we can write $300 on the title transfer when we file the paperwork?

1696 2:30:41

MR. ZANGENEH: Judge, that's speculation.

1697 2:30:41

JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.

1698 2:30:41

MARY HULL: Yes, we can agree to put a much less significant amount on there for purposes of a tax benefit to us as the consumer.

1699 2:30:50

MARY HULL: Yes.

1700 2:30:59

MS. NORRIS: In your analysis of Mr. Garcia's bank records over the time period, for records that you had, did he appear to frequently use the services of a banking institution only to convert his checks?

1701 2:30:59

MARY HULL: What do you mean, convert his checks?

1702 2:30:59

MS. NORRIS: He would get a direct deposit, and then he would pull money out, and then basically use little debits, some debit transactions.

1703 2:30:59

MARY HULL: This is Mr. Garcia?

1704 2:31:00

MS. NORRIS: Yes.

1705 2:31:35

MS. NORRIS: 2015 to 2016, those were the only bank records you had for Mr. Garcia?

1706 2:31:39

MARY HULL: Yes.

1707 2:31:47

MS. NORRIS: And — And how would you describe Mr. Garcia's spending habits?

1708 2:31:51

MR. ZANGENEH: I'm going to object to outside the scope of my cross.

1709 2:31:54

JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.

1710 2:32:05

MS. NORRIS: You were asked whether, in your analysis of the Adelsons' bank accounts, personal, business, investment and otherwise, whether or not there was a significant withdrawal of a large amount of cash during the time period of the murder, or before or after.

1711 2:32:19

MS. NORRIS: Did the evidence that you reviewed suggest that the Adelsons had a lot of stacks of cash in a safe?

1712 2:32:25

MARY HULL: Yes.

1713 2:32:36

MS. NORRIS: Mr. DeCoste asked you — I'm now on to his cross-examination — asked you some questions about the Adelson Institute subpoena response and whether it was a legal requirement that an employer keep on file a job application. In your training and experience, in your — how many years have you been doing financial analysis?

1714 2:32:57

MARY HULL: More than 30.

1715 2:32:58

MS. NORRIS: And during your experience, do you frequently request employment personnel records from businesses?

1716 2:33:04

MARY HULL: Yes.

1717 2:33:05

MS. NORRIS: Is it unusual to not see those items?

1718 2:33:07

MR. DECOSTE: Objection, relevance.

1719 2:33:08

JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.

1720 2:33:09

MS. NORRIS: Is it unusual to not see those kind of items?

1721 2:33:12

MARY HULL: It is unusual.

1722 2:33:13

MS. NORRIS: Was the packet you received from the Adelson Institute sparse in comparison to all the other employment records you've reviewed previously?

1723 2:33:20

MARY HULL: Yes.

1724 2:33:20

MR. DECOSTE: Objection, relevance.

1725 2:33:22

JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.

1726 2:34:12

MS. NORRIS: So from the records that you have summarized in this chart, for the the red items, those are all sequentially listed. For example —

1727 2:34:16

MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Asked and answered.

1728 2:34:18

JUDGE HANKINSON: Let her finish her question. Don't answer until I have a chance to rule on the question, please.

1729 2:34:26

JUDGE HANKINSON: Ask your question, please, Ms. Norris.

1730 2:34:26

MS. NORRIS: Yes, sir. For the sequentially numbered checks written on — sorry, the sequentially numbered checks with each date, with each date on the check postdated—

1731 2:34:44

MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Asked and answered.

1732 2:34:44

JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.

1733 2:34:47

MS. NORRIS: Based — On the date ranges in the memo line of the check, would the person receiving the check, Katherine Magbanua, know what time period that check was for, so that she could deposit it after that time period?

1734 2:35:01

MR. DECOSTE: Objection, speculation.

1735 2:35:03

JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.

1736 2:35:04

MARY HULL: Yes.

1737 2:35:19

MS. NORRIS: Do you know the arrest date of Sigfredo Garcia in this case?

1738 2:35:27

MARY HULL: I believe it's May 25th, 2016.

1739 2:35:35

MS. NORRIS: And is it your understanding — and if you don't know, tell me — that Katherine Magbanua was not arrested until later?

1740 2:35:41

MARY HULL: I believe she was arrested on October 1st, 2016.

1741 2:35:45

MS. NORRIS: But the checks from the Adelson Institute to Katherine Magbanua ceased after Sigfredo Garcia's arrest, not her arrest, right?

1742 2:35:55

MARY HULL: Yes.

1743 2:36:25

MS. NORRIS: On Defense Exhibit 14, this is the check from Sins to Ms. Magbanua that I think you indicated bounced?

1744 2:36:29

MARY HULL: Yes.

1745 2:36:44

MS. NORRIS: The date of this particular check, is that anywhere in this timeframe where this big red spike is?

1746 2:36:52

MARY HULL: No.

1747 2:36:57

MS. NORRIS: And that was actually a check from a bar, club, or some type of business, right?

1748 2:37:04

MARY HULL: Yeah, Sins LLC.

1749 2:37:06

MS. NORRIS: Not cash, though?

1750 2:37:08

MARY HULL: Correct.

1751 2:37:08

MS. NORRIS: Right.

1752 2:37:16

MS. NORRIS: You were asked some questions about making — working as a bartender, clubs, Life or something along those lines.

1753 2:37:23

MS. NORRIS: If Katherine Magbanua had worked one to two nights a week, making on average $100 a night, maybe the best night, $400—

1754 2:37:36

MR. DECOSTE: Objection, speculation, personal knowledge — the witness said she does not know.

1755 2:37:41

JUDGE HANKINSON: Well, there is a question, so let her answer the question. Don't answer it until I have — can I have a chance to rule, please?

1756 2:37:47

MS. NORRIS: And I'll preface this. You were asked some questions about what evidence she had in this case about whether or not Ms. Magbanua worked at a nightclub or a bar, whether she got paid cash. Do you remember that line of questioning?

1757 2:37:59

MARY HULL: I do.

1758 2:38:00

MS. NORRIS: If I were to tell you — give you a certain dollar amount, $100 an evening, one to two nights a week—

1759 2:38:00

MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Counsel testifying, improper opinion, personal knowledge.

1760 2:38:11

JUDGE HANKINSON: If you would let her ask a question, I can rule on whether it's a proper question.

1761 2:38:15

MR. DECOSTE: Too much caffeine. Sorry.

1762 2:38:21

JUDGE HANKINSON: Don't answer the question. Don't answer the — let's get to your question, please.

1763 2:38:33

MS. NORRIS: This particular increase in cash deposits in August 2014 — would working one to two nights at a bar for an average of $100 a night, maybe a best night $400 a night, account for the amount of cash deposits you saw in Ms. Magbanua's bank accounts for that time period?

1764 2:38:52

MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Speculation, personal —

1765 2:38:52

JUDGE HANKINSON: It's a hypothetical to an expert witness, I'll overrule the objection.

1766 2:38:52

MS. NORRIS: If that were the case, would that account for the amount of cash deposits you saw in Ms. Magbanua's account in July and August of 2014?

1767 2:39:09

MARY HULL: No.

1768 2:39:22

MS. NORRIS: Was Ms. Magbanua — how would you describe her relationship with money?

1769 2:39:26

MS. NORRIS: That's a bad question, I'm sorry. Would you describe her money deposit habits as financially responsible?

1770 2:39:34

JUDGE HANKINSON: That's a proper question.

1771 2:39:36

JUDGE HANKINSON: Move on, Ms. Norris.

1772 2:39:37

MS. NORRIS: Yes, sir.

1773 2:39:52

MS. NORRIS: When you analyzed the records, you were shown Defense Exhibit 13.

1774 2:39:53

MS. NORRIS: Looking at January 8th of 2015, a check card payment to the Adelson Institute for $200.

1775 2:40:05

MS. NORRIS: Do you know which dentist she saw on that date?

1776 2:40:11

MARY HULL: I do not know what dentist she saw.

1777 2:40:15

MS. NORRIS: Not whether she saw Harvey Adelson, Charlie Adelson, or anybody else for that matter?

1778 2:40:20

MARY HULL: I do not know.

1779 2:40:26

MS. NORRIS: Mr. DeCoste asked you about when people are in a relationship, sometimes one person buys the other things and vice versa.

1780 2:40:34

MS. NORRIS: Who was doing the buying in the relationship between Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua?

1781 2:40:39

MARY HULL: Charlie Adelson.

1782 2:40:41

MS. NORRIS: Did you find any significant records of Katherine Magbanua paying for anything for him?

1783 2:40:46

MARY HULL: No, I did not.

1784 2:40:49

MS. NORRIS: He also asked whether that would be abnormal behavior for people in a relationship to buy things for each other.

1785 2:40:56

MS. NORRIS: Following up on that, would that be abnormal if they're not in a relationship and they're dating other people?

1786 2:41:00

MR. DECOSTE: Objection, improper opinion.

1787 2:41:02

JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.

1788 2:48:27

JUDGE HANKINSON: I can hear from you, don't identify the guilty parties.

1789 2:49:00

JUDGE HANKINSON: Subject to my ruling at sidebar, 184 will be admitted.

1790 2:49:04

MS. NORRIS: Can I publish?

1791 2:49:06

JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.

1792 2:49:18

MS. NORRIS: Before I publish, you were just asked questions about Defense Exhibit 15, with the body about Katie letting Charlie Adelson know about her availability, and asked some questions about whether that was consistent with Defense Exhibit 15 or not.

1793 2:49:35

MARY HULL: Yes.

1794 2:49:38

MS. NORRIS: I want to show you Give us the time on that one you were just showing.

1795 2:49:42

MARY HULL: I was just — right, that it was September 14th.

1796 2:49:45

MARY HULL: 2:25 p.m., UTC minus 5.

1797 2:50:02

MS. NORRIS: 12 new SMS communications between Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua. I can.

1798 2:50:19

MS. NORRIS: And on September 15th, 2014, can you read this message from Charlie Adelson to Katherine Magbanua? The bottom one?

1799 2:50:23

MARY HULL: "Are you coming for me to take out your wisdom tooth?"

1800 2:50:28

MARY HULL: "I can respond. I can't today, I got the kids. I need to have someone watch them."

1801 2:50:39

JUDGE HANKINSON: Try to identify who's calling who or who's texting who, please, Ms. Norris. And if she gets it wrong, correct her, please. Come on.

1802 2:51:38

MARY HULL: Which one, the bottom? "Hey, I called you. You're there from 2 until what time? Can you call me, or are you busy again?"

1803 2:51:54

JUDGE HANKINSON: If y'all would identify who's texting whom, I think the jury would follow a lot better. Ms. Norris, you're jumping from one to another. Let's take them in sequence, please. I couldn't understand what you just said.

1804 2:52:12

MS. NORRIS: And go up.

1805 2:52:20

MARY HULL: "Okay, if you are, just hit me up tomorrow. It's not urgent."

1806 2:52:26

MARY HULL: "LOL, they do miss you. It has to be during the day, 8:30 at night."

1807 2:52:31

MARY HULL: "Are you just going to numb me, or am I going to take something?"

1808 2:52:36

MARY HULL: "Call me when you have a minute."

1809 2:52:41

MARY HULL: "Good morning."

1810 2:52:43

MARY HULL: "My mom gets off really late today. Where are you on Friday?"

1811 2:52:48

MARY HULL: "That's awesome, thank you so much. I'll call them to make sure they put me on the schedule. You said my full name?"

1812 2:53:25

MARY HULL: Yes. "No problem. You're helping them out more than I'm helping you. I'm excited to start today."

1813 2:53:35

MS. NORRIS: Okay. And what is Charlie Adelson responding on 9/17 at 12:23 p.m.?

1814 2:53:42

MARY HULL: "Cool, it should work good. I did say you would call. I did not give your full name, but just say it's cool."

1815 2:53:50

MS. NORRIS: "But just say it's cool"?

1816 2:53:51

MARY HULL: Yes.

1817 2:53:52

MS. NORRIS: And Katie responds "KK" shortly thereafter?

1818 2:53:56

MARY HULL: Yes. It means okay.

1819 2:53:56

MS. NORRIS: And then, moving up to the message on 9/17 at 3:29 p.m., what does Katie say to Charlie Adelson?

1820 2:54:06

MARY HULL: "Thanks again for having them squeeze me in."

1821 2:54:06

MS. NORRIS: And then what does Mr. Adelson respond at 3:29 p.m.?

1822 2:54:15

MARY HULL: "You're the best."

1823 2:54:15

MS. NORRIS: Is that consistent with Charlie Adelson squeezing her in for having her wisdom teeth extracted?

1824 2:54:24

MR. DECOSTE: Objection — personal knowledge.

1825 2:54:25

JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.

1826 2:54:41

MS. NORRIS: I have no further questions.

1827 2:54:43

JUDGE HANKINSON: I'm going to allow recross on the last portion.

Recross Recross Mary Hull Christopher DeCoste
1828 2:55:01

MR. DECOSTE: Showing you Government 184 — make sure that... and, uh, now, it started out talking about wisdom teeth?

1829 2:55:06

MARY HULL: Yes.

1830 2:55:12

MR. DECOSTE: Right? And some conversations. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, this begins on... it begins... It runs backwards.

1831 2:55:24

MR. DECOSTE: It took me a minute to figure that out.

1832 2:55:29

MR. DECOSTE: It begins on the 15th, right?

1833 2:55:32

MARY HULL: Yes.

1834 2:55:36

MR. DECOSTE: Continues into the 16th?

1835 2:55:39

MARY HULL: Yes.

1836 2:55:39

MR. DECOSTE: Right?

1837 2:55:39

MARY HULL: Yes.

1838 2:55:40

MR. DECOSTE: Now, you don't know what phone calls are being placed in between these text messages, right?

1839 2:55:45

MARY HULL: I do not.

1840 2:55:46

MR. DECOSTE: So you don't know what the context of these text messages are?

1841 2:55:50

MARY HULL: I do not.

1842 2:55:53

MR. DECOSTE: You can't say whether, in between this message talking about "excited to start" — and, to quote you, "yay" — and then this FaceTime call, if it then didn't change back over to a dental appointment?

1843 2:56:05

MARY HULL: I do not.

1844 2:56:15

MR. DECOSTE: And you don't disagree that there's a defense exhibit talking about Katherine Magbanua letting him know how many hours she could commit, right?

1845 2:56:28

MARY HULL: Yes, I remember that text message. I do not know the context, because I just read one text message.

1846 2:56:34

MR. DECOSTE: Thank you. Nothing further, Your Honor.

1847 2:56:36

JUDGE HANKINSON: Further, Ms. Norris?

1848 2:56:37

MS. NORRIS: No, Judge.

1849 2:56:38

JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Juror have a question of this witness?

1850 2:56:41

JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. You can step down.

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