Jeffrey Lacasse — Direct/Cross/Redirect
729 linesJUDGE WHEELER: State may call its next witness.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Your Honor, the State calls Jeffrey Lacasse.
JUDGE WHEELER: Jeffrey Lacasse, please.
JUDGE WHEELER: Good morning.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Good morning.
JUDGE WHEELER: Please go up to the witness stand. Before you have a seat, we're going to swear to you edge. Please raise your right hand and respond to the clerk.
COURT CLERK: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that a text in the name shall be issued to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I do.
JUDGE WHEELER: Please have a seat.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sir, please say your name and spell your name.
JEFFREY LACASSE: My name is Jeffrey Lacasse, J-E-F-F-R-E-Y-L-A-C-A-S-S-E.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How are you employed, sir?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm currently an associate professor at Florida State University.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How long have you been so employed?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Since 2013.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And I want to draw your attention back to 2014, did you have a relationship with Wendy Adelson?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What type of relationship was that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She was my girlfriend for about four months.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When did that relationship begin?
JEFFREY LACASSE: We dated in the fall of 2013. But casually she became we became a serious couple I would say around like February of 2014.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And when did the relationship end?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, that's a little tricky, but in July of 2014.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And during the time that you were together with Miss Adelson, did you become aware of her recent divorce?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did it on our first couple of dates. That was the topic of conversation. That's in the fall of 2013.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right And did you get an impression as to what type of divorce that was or how it would be characterized
JEFFREY LACASSE: An extremely contentious divorce.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And during the time that you dated her were you aware of any specific ongoing litigation with her ex-husband?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I was particularly in February of 2014 Because Miss Adelson would react bad wing as that litigation proceeded, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and what specific litigation was the was the topic of discussion in your relationship with her?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Can you restate that?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What was there specific litigation that was the topic of discussion?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I recall a motion filed in February of 2014 where Danny had made some accusations that seemed serious and Miss Adelson reacted poorly. As a matter of fact every time he filed something she tended to react poorly.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Specifically did you have knowledge through your relationship with Mrs. Adelson about her about a motion that had been filed by her ex-husband that was requesting that her mother not have contact with the children unless it was supervised?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes I do recall that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right and was that one of the items that she was really upset over?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes there were many but that was one for sure.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay so fair to say she took that litigation or that filing very seriously?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, she took every filing at every point in every motion very seriously was my impression.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What about her mother Donna Adelson? Do you have any personal knowledge as to how Donna Adelson took that particular filing about her having contact with the kids?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No I do not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you know Dan Markell?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I didn't know Dan Markell. I met Dan Markell on a handful of occasions for a few minutes on each occasion.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Any issues between the two of you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. He was my new girlfriend's ex-husband, so I was listening to Wendi Adelson describe him in terrible terms regularly.
JEFFREY LACASSE: But in terms of us having an actual conflict, no, ma'am, never.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No negative words ever spoken between the two of you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Oh, no. Always very polite and cordial to one another when we interacted.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Were you specifically aware of the litigation concerning Wendi Adelson's desire to relocate to South Florida with her children?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. That was a big topic of conversation on our first couple of dates because it had just been denied a few months previous.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Why, if you know, did Wendi Adelson want to relocate to South Florida?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She despised living in Tallahassee and wanted to live in Miami.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what was in Miami?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, there's multiple reasons. Chief among those reasons would be the fact that her parents and brother were down there.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How would you characterize her relationship with her parents and brother?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Extremely close.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did Wendi Adelson ever make a joke in your presence about her TV?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, ma'am, she did. In October of 2013, the first time I had went to her house on Aqua Ridge, we were gonna watch a movie. She made a joke — she characterized it as her brother's joke, but she was the one telling it — that, you know, my brother had looked into hiring a hitman, but a TV was cheaper. And I heard her repeat that joke on a later occasion.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So you heard that joke a couple times.
JEFFREY LACASSE: At least twice, yes, ma'am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. During your time in your relationship with Wendi Adelson, did you ever have any occasion to meet her family members?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What family members did you meet?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Donna Adelson came in October, November of 2013, and we had dinner and spoke to her very briefly.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Is that the only family member?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, no. I also met — Donna and Harvey would travel up here, and I would have very limited small talk with them because they took care of the kids when we would go on a date. But I didn't have a lot more interaction than that, because there's sort of a secretive thing — they seemed secretive in nature. When we would return for one of those dates, Wendi Adelson would never invite me inside the house. And when we're all in a group setting, say at the circus or downtown Get Down, Wendi and I would talk, the parents would be over here, and they just never said much to me.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So they didn't have too much interest in you, it seemed?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, they were polite but cold.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And what about in Miami — did you ever take any trips to Miami?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did take one trip to Miami with Wendi in March of 2014.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what family members did you spend time with on that trip?
JEFFREY LACASSE: We met with her brother, Charles Adelson, and we stayed at his house for one evening.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was that the same evening that you came to meet Katherine Magbanua?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, we had dinner with Katherine — Katherine Magbanua and Charlie Adelson — prior to going to his house.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yeah. And this is in March of 2014?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. It was during spring break. Wendi Adelson and I had went for alternative spring break, and it's Wednesday or Thursday of that week we traveled to Miami to meet Charles Adelson — was the point.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And how was Ms. Magbanua introduced to you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't recall exactly the word. It was clearly a dating relationship and a fairly new one. I couldn't tell you whether he said "girlfriends" or not, but it was a new romantic interest.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Of Charles Adelson.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Of Charles Adelson, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So the four of you have dinner in Miami, is that correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And do you know the date of that dinner?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It's okay if you don't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Definitely March of '14?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, between like March 10th and 14th of '14.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And so you had dinner with — was that the only time you ever had any contact with Katherine Magbanua?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I've been on. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So you may not be able to identify her, but if you can, is she present in the courtroom?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Oh, I can identify.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Please point out what she —
JEFFREY LACASSE: Katherine Magbanua is sitting in the dark suit between her attorneys, who I recognize as Christopher DeCoste and Tara Kawass.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you. Let the record reflect the witness has identified the defendant.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When you and Wendi Adelson had dinner with Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua, did you get the impression that this was the first time that Wendi had ever met Magbanua?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I got that rough impression because there was — I don't recall a great deal about that meeting, but I do remember some getting-to-know-you talk that would have been abnormal if they had a long-standing relationship. So they were talking about their life situations and such in an introductory way. Yes, ma'am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did Wendi at any time express to you any particular enthusiasm about this woman as opposed to any of her — uh, her brother's other girlfriends?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, prior to the meeting she seemed, um, very excited about the fact that her brother was dating Katherine.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was that surprising?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, a little bit. After dinner, it seemed a little — was surprising. It wasn't quite what I — once we had dinner, it wasn't quite what I had expected given Wendi's descriptions.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And had you been through this with Wendi before? Your relationship was relatively new as well. Do you have personal knowledge about the way Wendi typically reacted to Charlie's girlfriends?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't recall exactly. I — that I don't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Did anything unusual happen at the dinner?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, there's two things that stuck out to me. The first one — there was, the — Wendi Adelson had kind of a complex about being a single mom because Charlie had told her that, you know, no man wants to date a single mom. So we had this conversation repeatedly, and then I show up to dinner and Charlie's dating a single mom. So that was a little surprising. The other thing that I'm specifically —
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did the fact that — we talked about the fact that she's a single mom — did it come up, any information about her child's father?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, exactly. So that was the second thing that was surprising. Well, that just sticks out to me. Is during that getting-to-know-you small talk, um, Ms. Magbanua had mentioned that the — the father of her children, um, had had interactions —
MS. KAWASS: I'm only going to object because this is a discovery violation. The first time I'm ever hearing of this statement of my client.
JUDGE WHEELER: What's your objection?
MS. KAWASS: The discovery violation. I need a Richardson hearing. I've never heard this statement of my client ever in the past six years.
JUDGE WHEELER: Did you have the opportunity to take his deposition?
MS. KAWASS: Yes. It wasn't mentioned.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Well, if it's not asked, then you can't mention it. So that's overruled. You can proceed.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Mr. Lacasse, is this the first time you've ever mentioned this statement?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It is not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. When have you mentioned it before?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Um, I talked to Investigator Isom in between March and May of 2015, because he had called inquiring about Ms. Magbanua about a year and a half before she was arrested.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And you've previously given some testimony in this matter as well?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Again, please.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Have you previously given testimony in this matter, this same case?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And what statement, if any, did Ms. Magbanua make about her child's father?
JEFFREY LACASSE: So I cannot recall every exact word. I remember references to fighting the word "police" and that he definitely had a criminal record. Which didn't sound like speeding tickets. It sounded serious.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And you never had the opportunity to meet her child's father, did you know?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I never met him.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Charlie participated all in that conversation. We were all there. We were all engaged.
JEFFREY LACASSE: But he didn't specifically say anything relevant, I don't recall. "I know that guy," no. No example. Did not say anything quite like that, that I recall. This is a dinner, you know, almost nine years ago, I know.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you recall who paid for dinner?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Charlie did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And do you recall how he paid for dinner?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I do not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Do you know whether Charlie carried large amounts of cash?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I do not know if he carried large amounts of cash. Wendi mentioned the fact that he certainly stored large amounts of cash — shoeboxes in his home.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And did you know — or do you know — whether or not Charlie Adelson runs a cash business?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That was what I was told by Wendi Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So what happens after dinner?
JEFFREY LACASSE: After dinner, we go to yogurt, a quick dessert, and then Ms. Magbanua departed, and Wendi Adelson drove me to Charlie Adelson's house, at which point I do recall observing that she was unusually jittery and being strange. I didn't know what to make of it at the time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And we're talking about Wendi Adelson.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, Wendi Adelson driving me to Charlie's home.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So when you go back to Charlie's house, is it just you and Wendi and Charlie there?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, as well as Charlie's then roommate, Jerome Obed, was there as well.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And that's the dermatologist?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And so during the time that y'all were hanging out at the house after dinner, did the topic of Dan Markel come up?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In what regard?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, you didn't go anywhere with Wendi without hearing about Dan Markel, so it wasn't atypical. But there was talk, uh, about the divorce, the post-divorce litigation. There was negative talk about Danny. I recall Charlie getting a little heated up in the hot tub, um, about Danny, um —
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So y'all were in — in the hot tub?
JEFFREY LACASSE: We were in the hot tub.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And Charlie was expressing some negative words against Dan Markel?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, strong negative words.
JEFFREY LACASSE: And I also had a constant stream of comments from Wendi about what Charlie thought, that Charlie hated Dan Markel.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Want to talk about the incident that occurred at the coffee shop on June 4th of 2014. Does that sound familiar to you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, ma'am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What happened at the coffee shop? Was that here in Tallahassee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That was at Red Eye Coffee.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I had met Wendi for a cup of coffee. I had an appointment in the same building later, so we just met up.
JEFFREY LACASSE: And a couple of things happened on that day. But at the coffee shop, Wendi canceled a trip that we had planned for her to come meet my parents in California, which was scheduled for July 11th to 17th. And she said she canceled that trip because she was concerned we wouldn't get back in time to pick up the kids on the 18th, which didn't make a whole lot of sense. But — I just — we then discussed, you know, rescheduling the trip. It wasn't anything I objected to strongly or anything like that, but it was weird.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The plan originally was for you to return to Tallahassee on the 17th?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And then for her to take custody of her kids from Dan Markel on the 18th?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And she canceled the trip because why?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Because our flight might get delayed in the middle of summer and we would get stranded and not be able to be there to pick up the kids, and she had to pick up the kids on the 18th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you see her later that night?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, I went to her house and hung out with her and her children that night.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was there anything unusual about her behavior on the night of June 4th, 2014?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Definitely. She was a nervous wreck, um, and I actually traveled to the store to buy her, I believe, some Pepto-Bismol because she was such a nervous wreck she was having stomach problems. So she wasn't food poisoned, she didn't have the flu, she wasn't sick — she was just so nervous that she was having stomach problems.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Tell us about the — I guess the beginning of the end of your relationship.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Can you give me a date?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: My understanding is there was a big fight on June 29th.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JEFFREY LACASSE: So we traveled to Gainesville together. I had a work trip in Gainesville and Ms. Adelson accompanied me.
JEFFREY LACASSE: And the relationship had been a little bit of — I don't know, it had been a huge roller coaster of up and down and love bombing, and I perceived a lot of manipulation and lying.
JEFFREY LACASSE: And on, I guess it was on June 28th, that Saturday, we had a relationship conflict. We had a — I don't know if "argument" is quite the right word, but I was kind of tired of being strung along. It was just — what it felt like, I couldn't figure out why I was being strung along, but that's what it felt like, and we started headed out.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so when was the next time you saw her after the big fight?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, the next day we drove from Gainesville to Tallahassee, so I saw her then and I dropped her off at her house. It was a very awkward, you know, multiple-hour trip from Gainesville to Tallahassee.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and did that feel like the end of the relationship at that time?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It wasn't great, but no, it didn't feel like the end. No, in fact she said otherwise. I mean, I actually distinctly remember departing her house and her saying that this was not the end. But as I said, I felt like I was being strung along, where it was a constant roller coaster in a way that seemed purposeful and manipulative.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so that takes us to June 30th of 2014 when you part ways after this sort of bad trip to Gainesville.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, I dropped her off at her house on Alcoa Ridge.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When do you see her next after that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I see her next July 13th, after she had spent two weeks in South Florida. We did have communications in that time period, but I didn't see her.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you know the dates that she was in South Florida?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She told me that the day after I dropped her off, which I guess is June 30th, she had headed to South Florida and that she had returned July 30th. I don't know if that's true; that's just what she told me. July 30th — excuse me, June 30th to July — to July — June 30th to July 13th, supposedly. I was seeing her upon her return to Tallahassee.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I just don't know if that's true. I don't know what day she actually —
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, she represented she'd been in South Florida. So you see her — so it's been a couple weeks since the big fight?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And where did you see her?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I talked on the phone in the interim and, long story short, decided to, you know, keep going — to not break up, to continue to pursue the relationship. So we had a date. I picked her up at her house, we went to the movies and dinner.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and did you return back to her residence after your date?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did. We did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was there anything unusual about her behavior that evening?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, she made a very strange statement to me at the house.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Tell us about that, please.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, so we were walking into the house, and we were having chit-chat, and she says, "Can I tell something to you confidentially?"
JEFFREY LACASSE: And I said, "Sure."
JEFFREY LACASSE: And she tells me that last summer, when the relocation got denied, Charlie investigated multiple ways to fix this problem of Danny Markel, including hiring a hitman, and that it was going to cost about $15,000.
JEFFREY LACASSE: And I — later — I'm unsure if that number is $15,000 or $50,000 because they sound similar, but she told me that the previous summer, that Charlie had looked into having Danny killed by a hitman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So that would have been the summer of 2013.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and when she told you this statement, you previously characterized the TV statement as a joke. Was this statement also in the characterization of a joke?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, these are two discrete, completely different things. She had a joke she would make about TV being cheaper than a hitman. I knew that joke. This was a separate statement. This was chilling. This wasn't funny. This made my — my stomach flipped. I found it disturbing at the time. It was completely different.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And the statement was made five days before the murder of Dan Markel.
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: By a hitman.
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, I want to talk about the next day, which is going to be July 14, 2014, the Monday before the murder. Did you see Wendi Adelson that day?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I had left the previous night by saying I had some hope for the relationship.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I said, you know, "If this won't work out, just send me a text and I won't be offended by that, and we'll just move on." But she contacted me the next day and said, "I really want to spend time with you." So then she canceled plans in the middle of the day, and then we went to yoga — went to a yoga class together. We attended a yoga class together — the most awkward yoga session in history.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What happens after the awkward yoga session?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, during the yoga session, just as a 43-year-old man that's been in a few relationships, I'm thinking, "Okay, this looks like this is over." I just — the vibe I was getting. We walked to the car and exchanged words, and she didn't want to spend time with me Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday, and she had the whole week off without the kids. And then there was a couple other words exchanged, but it was clear to me — I thought it was over at that point — so I turned and started walking away.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and did she call you back?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, she called after me. I turned around, and she said — she asked me, "Are you still going to Tennessee on Friday?"
JEFFREY LACASSE: Because she had previously known that I was leaving for a trip to Tennessee at 11 a.m. on Friday, July 18th.
JEFFREY LACASSE: And she had a series of questions about whether I was going — if I didn't go, why wouldn't I go. So she, despite seemingly just breaking up with me and not wanting to see me for the next three days, had a deep interest in what I was going to be doing on Friday.
JEFFREY LACASSE: All right, and your plan at that time was to leave Tallahassee by plane or car? By car, at approximately 11 a.m., and Wendi Adelson and I had discussed that in some detail previously because of other plans that eventually got canceled, but she was the only person aware, other than the people in Tennessee, that that's when I was leaving.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And had you followed that plan, is it correct that you would have been departing Tallahassee and getting on I-10 at approximately the same time that the killers were?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. Not only that, but I would have driven within probably a couple miles of Dan Markel's house.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Right, and what type of vehicle would you have been in had you gone with that plan?
JEFFREY LACASSE: At that time, I was driving a 2004 four-door metallic gray Nissan Sentra.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Right, and are you familiar with the suspect vehicle in this case?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And would you characterize your vehicle as similar in appearance to that vehicle?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, especially in profile, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And are you aware that in her law enforcement interview, Wendi Adelson suggested you as a potential suspect?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I am aware of that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And did you cooperate with the police in this case?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. When I came back from Tennessee, they called me. I came in immediately and cooperated with them from the very beginning.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And were you able to provide an alibi that eliminated you as a suspect from committing this murder?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, a pretty solid one. They had me on videotape at a Kmart in Tennessee a couple hours after the murder, using my credit card, with my cell phone showing me there, so it was a pretty good outline.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is that because you did not follow the plan to leave at 11 a.m. on July 18th?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's right. I left the previous evening between 6 and 8 p.m. I changed my plans. I didn't tell anybody except the people at the other end. I certainly didn't tell Wendi Adelson when we were speaking, and so I was already out of the state by the time of the murder.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you have any knowledge about a celebration dinner that was had after the murder of Dan Markel?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I do. I eventually spoke to Wendi Adelson on the phone about 10 days after the murder.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I had a couple of phone conversations with her, and in one of them, she described attending what Charlie Adelson described as a celebration dinner.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was that the dinner where she vomited at the table?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, she said she hadn't eaten food in so long that as soon as the food hit her stomach, she started vomiting.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and were these couple phone calls after the homicide the last contact that you had with Wendi Adelson?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No further questions.
JUDGE WHEELER: Cross-examination.
MS. KAWASS: Thank you, Your Honor.
MS. KAWASS: Apologize, Mr. DeCoste — I'm going to have to read off my laptop for my questions.
MS. KAWASS: How are you doing today?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Good, how are you?
MS. KAWASS: It's been a while since we've seen each other. Wow. Everything all right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Everything's good.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. So, Mr. Lacasse, you are testifying today in this case under not only a state subpoena, but you received the defense subpoena as well, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And you're testifying more specifically to explain to this jury what you know about Wendi Adelson, right? Among other things.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: And you were dating Wendi Adelson up until four days before her husband was murdered?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes — well, that's a little tricky because Wendi Adelson had sent me an email after that yoga date saying, "I need to think about things for another week, so please don't contact me until the following week." So when the murder happened, I was in a state of limbo as far as the relationship, even though I had had a pretty bad feeling that, you know, this was over. Obviously it's not good to get an email like that, but for some reason she wanted us to be technically in limbo for another week was my perception. So it was kind of like a — I guess a soft breakup, like it wasn't definitive, but "hold on for a week until I get back to you" kind of vibe.
MS. KAWASS: Well, it was more —
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct, ma'am, but it was more than that. It was bizarre because we just had two weeks apart to think about things, and I could not figure out why she would want to drag it out for one more week at the time.
MS. KAWASS: And you'd characterize her behavior at this time as being strange, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Now, you previously said that if there was someone aside from her parents that spent a lot of time with her leading up to the murder, it was you, in the spring of 2014.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes — to my, well, to my knowledge, yes.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, and you had previously told the detective that during the nine months you were dating, you were spending about 80 to 90 percent of your nights with Wendi, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't recall saying 80 to 90 percent of my nights. Wendi was frequently in South Florida and frequently traveling for business and things like that, so Wendi wasn't even in Tallahassee — you know, seventy, I don't know, percentage of the time — but she was infrequently here, actually. So I spent a lot of time with her, but not so much in the fall, to be clear, and much more in January through June.
MS. KAWASS: And would it be fair to say that any night that she didn't have the kids with her, when she was free, she'd spend those nights with you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: A lot of them, not all of them.
MS. KAWASS: And at that time, you didn't have any kids of your own, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Correct.
MS. KAWASS: And you saw first-hand how hard it is to be a single mother, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. And Wendi is different because she has a lot of help. When her parents were in town, she had a lot of help. When she traveled to South Florida, she had a lot of help. When she was on her own, it was sometimes difficult. Yes, ma'am.
MS. KAWASS: And Danny — or, uh, Professor Markel — he wasn't an absentee father, was he?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, not at all.
MS. KAWASS: Right. So she also had him actively helping her out as well, too, with the care of the boys.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, she had a standing offer from Professor Markel to see the children more often and to be more actively involved than was strictly, you know, allowed by the court paperwork. Yes, if that's what you mean.
MS. KAWASS: Did you ever get the feeling that Wendi would use her children as almost like tools to get on Mr. Markel's nerves or to, you know, upset him in any way?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I hate to say this about a mother, but I saw her doing that in multiple domains, including using me as bait. I mean, I saw her doing that in multiple domains, yes.
MS. KAWASS: And you got close to the boys too, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did. And whenever we had a fight or a problem, Wendi always invoked the children. That was her go-to excuse. That was her way to continue stringing me along, it felt like, because I had grown very close to the children.
MS. KAWASS: And let's talk about her parents.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Now, they lived in South Florida at the time, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Correct.
MS. KAWASS: You ever made that drive before?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I — yeah, I made that drive a few times.
MS. KAWASS: About seven hours, right? It's a long, treacherous drive.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, right.
MS. KAWASS: And I only say that because Florida is just a very, you know, not too much to see — it's just flat going straight for seven hours, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And isn't it true that her parents, anytime they would want Wendi to come down with the boys, they would actually drive up to Tallahassee, pick her up, and drive her back down.
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's what she reported.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I want to be cautious because I know her to be a person that doesn't always tell me the truth, but that's what I was told.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Well, you just brought me into a whole new line of questioning. Okay. Okay.
MS. KAWASS: Let's talk about her ability to tell the truth.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Okay.
MS. KAWASS: You know her very well. You were dating her for a long time.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, a few months.
MS. KAWASS: Seriously, but go ahead. How would you describe her when it's, you know, trying to determine whether or not she's telling the truth?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I found her to be a deeply deceitful person and not that great at it. That was my impression.
MS. KAWASS: Would she occasionally just put on a show, try to get people to feel sorry for her?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Wendi adopted the victim role as her default social role — her way of getting attention, sympathy, etc. — yes.
MS. KAWASS: Did she play the victim role to you about how awful Danny was to her?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Did she constantly complain about that, what a terrible person he was to her, and —
JEFFREY LACASSE: Mostly, yes.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And this is, of course, all the only information you're getting from this is through Wendi Adelson's mouth, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: 95% of it. I mean, I also live in Tallahassee, we have a community, I heard some other things, but she had managed to persuade most of the rest of the community that what she was saying was true at the time. So, yeah.
MS. KAWASS: So would you say she did that frequently — like she'd speak openly about how upset she was with her divorce?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, it was the top of conversation. If we went to dinner with friends, that's what we were going to talk about. It frankly got old.
MS. KAWASS: And she worked at the same place he did, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, they both worked at the College of Law.
MS. KAWASS: So she was disparaging him amongst his colleagues.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Except for two, right — I can only, as far as what I witnessed. Yeah, we went to dinner with some law professors where she — she did that, and she actively talked badly about her divorce in front of them, yes.
MS. KAWASS: Okay.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Now, one thing that Wendi was very vocal to you about during their relationship was how much she hated Tallahassee, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And that was almost a daily conversation, how much she hated living here?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. Danny was part one, how bad Tallahassee was part two. That was the plot of every day.
MS. KAWASS: And that's why you kind of say it started to get old, because those are basically the things that you talk about over and over and over again.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: And she blamed Dan Markel for being stuck in Tallahassee. There's no question about that.
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, she did blame — well, she blamed Dan Markel for getting her stuck in Tallahassee, yes.
MS. KAWASS: Had you ever heard her say that if something happened to him, she'd be able to go home?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. And that night that I related to Ms. Cappleman in June — or, excuse me, July 13th — part of that conversation was, if anything ever happened to Danny, she would probably, you know, not "probably" — she would return to South Florida.
MS. KAWASS: Right. Now, and that's actually what happened in this case, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's exactly what happened in this case a week later. As soon as he was murdered, less than a week later, she was in South Florida. That's my understanding.
MS. KAWASS: Right. Now, you love living in Tallahassee, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I love Tallahassee, yeah.
MS. KAWASS: And you chose to move here from Phoenix.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did.
MS. KAWASS: Didn't she think you were crazy for leaving Phoenix, a bigger city, than coming here?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't know if she said I was crazy, but I'll put it this way.
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was not possible to persuade her that Tallahassee had some redeeming attributes, and also that this wasn't the rest of her life, that at some point she would be able to leave when the children were older. It was a very immature sort of take on it.
MS. KAWASS: And you tried sometimes to highlight the wonderful things about Tallahassee to her, but was that a fruitless effort?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That was always unsuccessful. I mean, I did my best, but it was like talking to a wall.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I mean, she wrote a book where she shreds Tallahassee. I mean, she really doesn't like Tallahassee.
MS. KAWASS: Isn't it true that she thought that she was better than the people that lived in Tallahassee?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
MS. KAWASS: And did you ever catch her crying uncontrollably because she felt that she was stuck here?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I — multiple crying episodes, yes. She would cry sometimes because she was stuck here. She also used to cry, especially in the months preceding the murder, for no reason that I could discern. It was just crying.
MS. KAWASS: How — did you ask her, and she just wouldn't give you an answer?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, that was Wendi's typical pattern, to be very non-specific.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, and then — so did —
MS. KAWASS: Wendi explain to you that Danny was emotionally abusive to her? She used that term very frequently?
JEFFREY LACASSE: And at the time, as the boyfriend, I sort of accepted that.
MS. KAWASS: You were taking what she said is true.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, it's a new relationship. But in retrospect, I can't think of a single thing she ever described that I would consider emotionally — emotionally abusive.
MS. KAWASS: She did tell you once, though, that — well, she felt this was emotionally disturbing to her — that Danny would make her sit in silence if they were to drive down to South Florida. She would drive, he would be in the passenger seat doing work, and she would complain to you that that's something he would do, would make her sit in silence on the seven-hour drive.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, she said he did that one time, and I don't know if that's true or not, but she did say that, yeah.
MS. KAWASS: And to be clear, this is just coming from Wendi Adelson — you have no evidence to support that what she's telling you is the truth.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, now, did she describe him as a complete control fee — uh, control freak?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm sorry, that rings a bell, yeah.
MS. KAWASS: And did she ever describe him as an absentee father to you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: What she described was that during the marriage he was not quite as involved with the children and arguably would meet that label, and then after the divorce became very engaged with the children, which instead of seen as a positive she saw as a rather annoying inconvenience — that he wanted his share of the time with the kids.
MS. KAWASS: Now, Wendi was in her mid-30s when the two were dating back in 2014, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's right.
MS. KAWASS: Did you describe her as being self-sufficient?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, I think I described her in past police interviews as a highly dependent person who seemed to struggle with adult decision-making and would often seek advice on things that you might expect from a 15-year-old or an 18-year-old, but not a woman in her mid-30s. That's right.
MS. KAWASS: And did your relationship with Wendi — was it so tumultuous that you actually ended up having to see a therapist about your relationship with her?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
MS. KAWASS: Would you also describe her as having a public persona, being one way in public and another behind closed doors?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, superficially charming. But I had reported to the police that — just a characteristic I found disturbing. I mean, we would have dinner with some people, the door closes, and people gossip, but it was like a 180 flip and it would be vicious and very mean-spirited at a level that — completely different from how she was a moment before.
MS. KAWASS: Yes.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Not a way I talk about people.
MS. KAWASS: Yeah. Okay. Now, and you'd say she's a good actress — she's good at putting up a facade for people. Now, she's also admitted to you that she has lied in a deposition before, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, that's tricky, because she may have lied about lying in a deposition.
MS. KAWASS: She told that to you, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: She did, but — my understanding is she lied about that. So there's lies on top of lies. So it could be a lie about a lie, and maybe a lie.
MS. KAWASS: Yeah, it gets real confusing with — uh —
JEFFREY LACASSE: But that's — it brings up an important point. She really enjoys mind games, and so I think that might have been a little bit of a mind game.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, so she may have just been throwing that out for some other ulterior purpose.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't know why she would disclose to me that she lied in a legal proceeding as an officer of the court and then turn out not to have done it. I mean, that's — but that's — I got a hundred stories like that.
MS. KAWASS: No, and I would ask you — it would be — as an attorney —
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
MS. KAWASS: I mean, it would be a violation of our ethical duties as a lawyer to lie under oath, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Right. But then I go to the police in my first interview and I go, "Well, I really got one for you. She told me she lied in a deposition," and my understanding is she didn't. So there's a plotting kind of thing going on here.
MS. KAWASS: All right. So have you previously described her as a pathological liar?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Now, let's talk about the one time that you came down to Miami.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: And met Charles Adelson.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, so let's be clear — you met Charles Adelson once, correct? You met Katherine Magbanua once.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: All right, and that was on that date that we talked about.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: All right, so let's talk about that. So because that dinner that night ended up getting a little strange when you guys went back to Charlie's house, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, that's fair.
MS. KAWASS: Now, describe for the jury — because they don't know anything about this restaurant — describe Yardbird, because it's a restaurant that's on South Beach, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, it's on South Beach. We were outside on a patio. You probably know Yardbird better than I — I have only been there once. It's a very nice restaurant. They have, like, you know, all type of American-based food.
MS. KAWASS: Yes, yeah. And you said something important — you were sitting outside.
JEFFREY LACASSE: We were sitting outside.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. You and Wendi got there before Charles, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That sounds right, but I don't remember for sure.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, and if we had text messages between, for example, Charles and Wendi that would indicate you guys were outside, those would be reliable — waiting for them to get there, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I mean, that sounds right.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, and he meets up with you there, and then Katherine makes — gets there, and that's when you guys get introduced, right? You remain outside while you're having dinner, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Correct.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, and would it be fair to say — I mean, I know what Yardbird looks like, but members of the jury do not — so where the patio is, it's right at a four-corner intersection, if I'm saying that correctly, so there could be cars across the way, correct? Cars parked to the right, cars parked to the left.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
MS. KAWASS: But you're all clearly visible sitting down outside, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Oh, sure. Yeah.
MS. KAWASS: So you're sitting there with Wendi.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
MS. KAWASS: And Charles is sitting beside Katherine. Was he behaving as if, you know, that's his girlfriend and stuff like that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well —
MS. KAWASS: And I'm only asking because, you know, if someone from the outside were just watching, would it appear that she was having a good time with her boyfriend?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I mean, it's —
JEFFREY LACASSE: A hard question for me to answer because it's been so long. Yeah, it does — you'd have to know Charlie. I mean, I don't know, I met him the one time. Most of this, there was Charlie informing us about the world. He's talking a lot.
MS. KAWASS: He's talking a lot.
JEFFREY LACASSE: So I don't know how he acts with girlfriends or women he's dating, but, um —
MS. KAWASS: And that's kind of important, because it's the first time you're meeting him, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Right.
MS. KAWASS: Tell the jury how much he talks.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Oh, you don't talk with Charlie. Charlie talks to you. I mean, I never saw anything quite like it.
MS. KAWASS: Right.
JEFFREY LACASSE: He just — he dominates the entire conversation. He dominated that conversation. I don't remember what was — that conversation, but there was interaction in that conversation. There was other people talking, and I don't want that to be taken too far, because Charlie was certainly a character and someone I had a bad feeling about immediately, honestly. But it wasn't like 99% was just Charlie talking.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Him and Katie were relating things they had done together. I don't remember the specifics eight years later, but yeah.
MS. KAWASS: And you had said on direct examination, he introduced Katie to you as his girlfriend.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't remember him saying the word "girlfriend." But like you said, he was talking about things that they had done before.
MS. KAWASS: It was obvious to you that they were dating, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, and then it was fairly new, yeah.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, it wouldn't be too smart for him to be introducing people if he's conspiring with them, right?
MS. KAWASS: Let me restate that. It wouldn't be very smart of him to be introducing someone he's conspiring with to commit murder to other people, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I mean, I'm not an investigator. I'm not an expert on what's smart when conducting a criminal conspiracy, so —
MS. KAWASS: Let's talk about — now when, so you're all sitting outside. It was nighttime, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Very early evening. This is, like, a pretty early dinner and the sun was still out.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, and then but going into evening, kind of like how the sun here, like it doesn't, especially around this time, it doesn't set between four and six?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't remember exactly when.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, so it wouldn't be any problem if anybody that was around to be seen you guys having dinner?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No.
MS. KAWASS: Sure. You leave that restaurant and then you all go collectively to get some ice cream?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, I don't have real clear memories of that, but we walked to a yogurt place, and that wasn't very long, and then we headed to Charlie's house.
MS. KAWASS: Now, how did you guys get to Charlie's house? Were you and Wendi in the car by yourself?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Wendi had driven a rental down from Tallahassee and she was driving, so Charlie got into his own vehicle and drove and met us back at the house.
MS. KAWASS: Yes. Okay. And his house is in Fort Lauderdale, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, he's on Well Harbor.
MS. KAWASS: That's right. So it would be at least a 40, 40-minute drive, 40, 45 minutes, just if you can remember. It's not a quick ten.
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, no, it wasn't like five, ten minutes. It was a ways.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, and then so you go up to the house and you and Wendi go inside, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's right.
MS. KAWASS: Now, Katherine doesn't come back to Charlie's house, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, Katherine returned to her own house. She went back to her own home.
MS. KAWASS: But then Charlie comes back, and then you, Charlie, and Wendi all sit down in the hot tub, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I think we talked otherwise as well, but we spent a couple hours in that hot tub.
MS. KAWASS: Yeah. Okay. And this is where, I think you said, this is when he starts talking about some very weird things, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. He was very braggadocious is a word you've used. He was. And wasn't he kind of like talking about inappropriate — for example, he was talking about inappropriate sexual things he's done with girls was one of the things he talked about, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
MS. KAWASS: That one in front of your sister.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah. I was fairly stunned by — I'm talking about sexual sadism in front of his younger sister.
MS. KAWASS: Yeah. You're sitting right there. He's kind of talking to you, but this is things he's discussing in front of his sister, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And then he also talked about going on trips and sleeping with young girls in other countries, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't think that was in the hot tub. That was information related from Wendi to me during the relationship.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, but she was aware of that — like, she's telling you how her brother is, that he goes to other countries and sleeps with really young girls?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, and she's supposedly a human trafficking activist, so it's pretty bizarre.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And he also talked to you at this — and in this hot tub, like when you guys are talking, did he come across as being like, you know, trying to brag that he was a person that has friends on two sides of the tracks?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, that's a nice summary overall. I don't remember a lot of the specific details, but he was more street-smart, or more street, if you know what I mean by that, than I would have expected from a millionaire Miami dentist, yes.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, and was he doing that more in the hot tub than how he was when he was at dinner with everybody?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't — you know, I don't remember much of the dinner, so I can't really make a comparison.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. But the hot tub incident kind of stands out.
JEFFREY LACASSE: The hot tub stuck out.
MS. KAWASS: Yeah. Okay. And did you describe him as being very cocky, arrogant, and narcissistic?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And he also talked about — and this is the first time he's met you — he was talking about what he does with his finances, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: He was bragging about financial crimes, essentially.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Basically, like, yeah, you know, "I'm a dentist by day but I also dabble in these other things that I'm not supposed to."
MS. KAWASS: Yeah. And was bragging to you about that?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: What kind of impression did that leave with you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, when Dan Markel was —
JEFFREY LACASSE: — murdered, I went to the police immediately and said you need to be investigating Charlie Adelson. Sat down three days after he was murdered.
MS. KAWASS: And that is what I want to talk to you about.
MS. KAWASS: So when — you only met him once, and the first time that you heard that the police wanted to talk to you, you immediately — now let's talk about that. How did you find out that the police would like to ask you some questions about what's going on?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I was called. He was murdered on July 18th. Right. I was on my way back down south to Tallahassee and I received a call from TPD asking me to come in, and I actually drove straight to the station.
MS. KAWASS: When they called you on your phone, did they identify themselves as the Tallahassee Police Department?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes. Investigator Corey Hale.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And he actually said, "I'm with the Tallahassee Police Department, and we would like you to come in and answer some questions," right? Something to that effect. Did they tell you what it was about?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't recall, but I don't know that he needed to.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. Had you heard already what had happened?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. So you immediately went there, but they kind of, like, you know, gave you the option and invited you to come in, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: They —
MS. KAWASS: Yeah, they didn't go and arrest you.
JEFFREY LACASSE: They did not arrest me.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And when you first came into your first meeting with Corey Hale, he started out the meeting by saying, "Hey, listen, we're working to exclude you as a suspect."
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, we had a conversation about excluding me. And the impression I got was that — and I guess I've worn a sense that they had already done some investigating, you know, with my cell phone and so forth, so that the investigation of me had reached a point where that was, you know, at the point where they were trying to exclude me.
MS. KAWASS: Now, they haven't heard from you yet, right?
MS. KAWASS: They haven't heard from you yet? Like, you haven't provided them any information yet?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, they haven't, but my cell phone shows me in another state when he's murdered, so.
MS. KAWASS: But at that time, though, you hadn't realized Wendi had kind of named you, or implied that you could have been a suspect in this case, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I didn't realize that.
JEFFREY LACASSE: When I was heading into the station, by the time I left the station, it was pretty clear.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I mean, no one said that word for word, but I'm not stupid, and I could tell pretty quickly that, like, yeah.
MS. KAWASS: You'd agree with me, people don't have to say things directly sometimes. You can just leave little crumbs, and you can pick up on what they're trying to get at, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I mean, yeah, sometimes, and —
JEFFREY LACASSE: I mean, I'll say this. I was never quite sure until I was able to view Wendi's interrogation video, in which case it became 100 percent. I suspected that previously. I thought maybe.
JEFFREY LACASSE: But once I saw her video, there it is in black and white.
MS. KAWASS: Now, you, even though now you know they considered you as a suspect, you walked into a room at Tallahassee Police Department, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: And they recorded you, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: I mean, there's, no — now we don't have to go back in 2014 to wonder what it was that you said.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Right, I guess. It's there in black and — well, not black and white, but in color. Yeah, my first interview was video-recorded, the first interview I did with them, yeah.
MS. KAWASS: So it's the second one, right?
MS. KAWASS: Meeting 1 on the 21st.
MS. KAWASS: I have July 21st, July 23rd, and March 6th.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, so I had a videotaped interview the 21st. I had a videotaped interview the 23rd, where I came back and added Wendi to the list of people I thought they should be investigating.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. But on that first, first, first day, even though you'd only met him once, you thought it was imperative for you to tell these detectives, "If you're going to look at someone, you need to look at her brother."
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did that reluctantly. I was worried about my safety, but I did. That's right. That's correct.
MS. KAWASS: You were even — in that point, even though you only met him one time, asked if you could speak to them off the record, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, I got a feeling about —
JEFFREY LACASSE: — Charlie. I had a bad feeling. And explain to the jury, it wasn't that, "Oh, you know, I want to tell you something that, you know, may be bad for me."
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm scared that —
JEFFREY LACASSE: — Charlie may come back and do something if I call him out.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, it's also just, caught in the crosshairs of a criminal investigation, which is like being thrown into a weird movie. It's a very bizarre sort of thing.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I didn't know how realistic that threat would be, but I —
JEFFREY LACASSE: I thought Charlie was potentially a dangerous person. And this was, like I said, and I'm going to stress it, only after meeting him once.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, about four hours is all it took.
MS. KAWASS: Oh, four hours.
MS. KAWASS: All right. So now going back to — I want to talk about those dates leading up to when you guys, well, when Professor Markel was murdered.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: So you talked about the trip to Gainesville, and this is when things started to get weird with the fighting between you and Wendi, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Correct. That's when the big disagreement was.
MS. KAWASS: Yes. Okay. And then on the drive back, you had described that the most awkward drive ever.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And so you returned to Tallahassee, and the next day she leaves to Miami.
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's what you told me she was doing. Yeah, I assume that happened.
MS. KAWASS: So on July 1st of 2014, she would have been in Miami, as best as you can recollect?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: Yes. Okay.
MS. KAWASS: And all the way up until July 13th.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: All the time she's texting with you, communicating with you while she's in Miami, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Five to ten communications and phone calls and video chats with the kids. She was cleaning out her childhood room in Coral Springs. I remember video-chatting with her and the kids. So yeah, that's right.
MS. KAWASS: Nothing in those communications indicating to you that something was amiss?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That she was going to probably come back and the next day ask to take a week break? Oh, I mean, we had some heart-to-hearts. I got these long emails. She kept — this is what I'm talking about being strung along. This is what I'm referring to.
JEFFREY LACASSE: It would make sense, you have the big fight, you break up. It wasn't like that. I'm getting texts that say, "I miss you." I'm getting thousand-word emails. We're having video chats with the kids.
JEFFREY LACASSE: We're on the phone, and she's — thank you. It seemed like we were going to work things out, which is why that breakup date is so hard to pin down.
MS. KAWASS: Which is why it was so odd to you.
JEFFREY LACASSE: It's extremely strange.
MS. KAWASS: So she gets back to Tallahassee, and on the Monday before Dan Markel is killed, that's when you guys have dinner, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: What's the calendar date, ma'am?
MS. KAWASS: I know it is the 13th. The 13th is the dinner.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm sorry, I tried to go back five.
JEFFREY LACASSE: So that's, yeah, July 13th we had dinner and saw a movie. That's correct.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And you watched the movie Neighbors.
JEFFREY LACASSE: We did. Excellent movie.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And another thing she did that was — and you had spoken to Ms. Cappleman about this — is that she specifically, after you guys broke up, or after the yoga session on the Tuesday, she specifically asked you about your travel plans on Friday.
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, and you actually thought that was strange because you're getting the vibe that we're breaking up but now you're asking me where I'm going to be on Friday at 11 a.m.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Which is why I went to the police on July 23rd and highlighted that as the first of many suspicious things I thought they needed to know.
MS. KAWASS: And you'd agree with me that at the time when you first spoke to the police — and I mean it's common sense — that your memory of the details of everything that went on in 2014 was better in 2014.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Mostly. Although I also — mostly, mostly.
MS. KAWASS: Like if we went into details about what you did Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, you'd know back then better than you do now.
JEFFREY LACASSE: As far as memory, yes, but I also reviewed all my text messages and emails when I came back and talked to the police a few months later, and that did raise things that I did not remember in July.
MS. KAWASS: And so you would agree with me that the first time you probably weren't properly equipped to give them all the details — you needed to go back and review things, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I think I gave him the important details on those first two days, which is Charlie and Wendi Adelson need to be investigated, but there were other details that I uncovered as I thought about it. It's also a pretty traumatic situation. It takes a little bit to get your head on straight to think straight, obviously.
MS. KAWASS: Now, so you leave Thursday, but you never tell Wendi that you're leaving on Thursday, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, I did not.
MS. KAWASS: So as far as she knew, you were leaving on Friday at 11 a.m.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: All right. And you'd agree with me that had it not been...
MS. KAWASS: For your credit card receipts, the Walmart video, and other things, you probably could be sitting at the table between two lawyers, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I mean, if I had left town without a cell phone, not entered a store, not used a credit card, things could have been more complicated.
JEFFREY LACASSE: But this was in 2014. It's a pretty unlikely scenario, it seems like to me. I worried that there was an effort made to, you know, make it look as if — but there was also...
JEFFREY LACASSE: Ten other reasons that would have, you know — what's the word — exculpatory. There's ten other reasons why I couldn't have done it that we didn't even have to go to because we had this videotape of me at a Kmart.
MS. KAWASS: You didn't even have to go there because they gave you the opportunity to give everything over and for you to, you know, explain your side of the story, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, they filed search warrants. It wasn't — I mean...
MS. KAWASS: They got a search warrant again? Did they tell you that before they spoke?
JEFFREY LACASSE: My understanding is they had search warrants for cell phones and financial records or some sort of court paperwork. I'm not a lawyer, but it wasn't as simple as I show them your cell phone when you walk away.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I showed them that to show, look, I didn't do it, and they did additional investigation after that.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And, but you'd agree with me that had you had to get those things, I don't know, maybe two, three years after, they may have disappeared. There probably may not have been a video.
MS. KAWASS: If your cell records, for example — if you have Sprint, they only hold them for two years, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yeah, I don't know anything about that.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. But at the time is when you probably should be gathering as much evidence as possible before, you know, it goes stale or expires, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Again, I'm not a criminal investigator.
MS. KAWASS: Oh, I'm only asking based on common sense.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I hope I have some common sense. But maybe I don't. I'm a college professor. It doesn't always go together.
JEFFREY LACASSE: That sounds right, but I worry that I'm giving you opinion based on no expertise on law enforcement or investigations whatsoever. I want to stick to what I know.
MS. KAWASS: No, and I appreciate that, Mr. Lacasse, because I don't want anything to come across...
MS. KAWASS: I want to be able to explain 100% to the jury.
MS. KAWASS: Another thing I wanted to make clear is that statement — the joke that Wendi made about, oh, my brother joked about looking into hiring a hitman but got me this TV as a divorce present, was cheapo, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Well, that's the joke — not what I would call the chilling statement.
MS. KAWASS: Right. I'm talking about the joke.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. KAWASS: She told you that he said that the summer that they were divorced, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Say that again, please.
MS. KAWASS: That would have been in the summer of 2013, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't know when the joke started.
JEFFREY LACASSE: If Wendi told a joke once, she was one of those people you'd probably hear it ten more times, so I don't know how long she'd been telling that joke, how many times she told it.
MS. KAWASS: Do you agree with me that based on what she's saying to you, that it would have been around the time of the divorce that he made that representation?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I just don't know when she started telling that joke, although I heard it for the first time in October of 2013.
MS. KAWASS: Okay, and you have no idea when he met Ms. Magbanua, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Who's he?
MS. KAWASS: Charlie. Charlie.
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, I don't know when they met.
MS. KAWASS: And that one time that you were sitting there with Charlie, did he at all...?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I think you had mentioned it. He was vocal too. They were talking about Dan Markel in the hot tub. He made some comments about Dan Markel that I can't recall word for word, but it was clear — he was not a fan. He was very upset with Dan Markel.
MS. KAWASS: Now, when you said Katie had reference talking about her ex-husband, right?
MS. KAWASS: Or ex-boyfriend — however she referred to it — father of her kids.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, she had.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I recounted the little that I recall.
MS. KAWASS: No, of course.
JEFFREY LACASSE: He had a criminal record, and the word fighting, the word police — and that's all I remember. It seemed fairly serious.
MS. KAWASS: Did it come across that she was still with him, or was she speaking about him like he was her ex?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't think I know the answer to that question.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And that's a fair response.
MS. KAWASS: I'm just asking what you remember.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I'm trying to separate what I know from what I've heard since.
JEFFREY LACASSE: And I don't think I would know.
MS. KAWASS: Okay. And the things she had said was he has a criminal record.
MS. KAWASS: Issues with the police. Did she mention anything about the fact that he was on drugs?
MS. KAWASS: Anything like that sound familiar?
JEFFREY LACASSE: You know, I really wish I could remember every word from that conversation.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Seems important now. I can't.
JEFFREY LACASSE: But to your prior question, clearly Charlie was dating Katherine now.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I didn't get the impression that she was still with...
JEFFREY LACASSE: The father of her children — but there was some sort of ongoing relationship due to the kids in custody, and there was a mention of some kind of court thing. I don't know what it was. So there was obviously still some sort of social connection, but I don't think they were dating.
MS. KAWASS: Thank you. Kind of like Wendi and Danny, right? If we were to look at your phone records and Wendi's phone records — at the time you were dating her, right?
MS. KAWASS: She'd be in constant communication with you, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Oh, that's funny.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Wendi was notorious for not returning texts or phone calls.
MS. KAWASS: But there'd be a lot of communications from you to her, though.
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, no, there would be communications both ways, to be fair.
MS. KAWASS: Sure.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Um, I don't know what you would consider a lot, but yeah, we're dating, there's going to be communications.
MS. KAWASS: And there should be communications between her and the father of her kids, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That was an issue, I think, that was actually headed into court on what basis that was allowed — when he could text her. They had a parenting coordinator.
JEFFREY LACASSE: She was protesting.
JEFFREY LACASSE: So I — I don't have personal knowledge of that. That was actually a contentious issue. How much should he be allowed to contact her was an issue in contention.
MS. KAWASS: He wanted more, but it didn't suggest that he had no contact with them, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No, not that he had no contact, but she wanted as limited contact with him as possible, given that they were divorced, and I think Professor Markel was trying to be more collaborative as, you know, co-parenting in that situation.
JEFFREY LACASSE: So I remember situations where she would get a text and be very upset that he texted her, for example.
MS. KAWASS: Do you recall anything unusual about Charlie when Katie was talking about her ex?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No.
MS. KAWASS: Did he say anything like, I don't know that guy?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I wish I could remember that conversation. I told you everything I could remember about that conversation.
MS. KAWASS: All right. Can I have one moment here?
MS. KAWASS: Thank you so much, Mr. Lacasse. It's good to see you.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Thank you.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. Thank you. Hold on one second. Any redirect?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, Your Honor.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Mr. Lacasse, you were asked about the dinner — we talked about it on direct as well — where you met Katherine Magbanua and Charlie Adelson for the first time.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes, ma'am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and they appeared to be dating at that time.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and... Thank you.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you tell us the date, or is there anything that would refresh your memory of the date of that dinner?
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was during spring break 2014.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so sometime in that...
JEFFREY LACASSE: Like March 10th to 14th. I think I've said it before. I've just forgotten it today. I apologize.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That's okay. I just wondered if there was anything that you could look at that would refresh your recollection on the specific date because I think you have said before.
JEFFREY LACASSE: I think I have said it before. I don't know where.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right. And when you departed the dinner, you went to a vehicle and Mr. Adelson went to his vehicle.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Were your vehicles in close proximity to each other, or was he parked somewhere else where you couldn't see him?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I — we — I couldn't see his vehicle. I've been asked that before, because Wendi Adelson and I had arrived in that area hours earlier. We were kind of walking around looking at shops and stuff, so I don't remember the parking arrangement, but I don't think we were parked right up against it compared to them.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And once you returned to your vehicles, you returned to Mr. Adelson's residence. Is that right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And did you say you spent the night there that night?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I did. I flew out the next morning.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And when you arrived at Mr. Adelson's restaurant, you just traveled straight from the yogurt to his residence, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is that what he did as well, as far as you know?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I have no idea.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was there a delay?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Were you there for some time before he arrived back?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't recall.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. When he arrived back at his residence — I guess once you got there, did you have to wait for him to let you in? Were you waiting outside for some time?
JEFFREY LACASSE: That could be true, but I don't recall it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. When he did arrive, did it appear that he was — thank you — shaken or upset about something?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't recall that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did he have any obvious injuries that appeared he'd been in some type of physical altercation?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I don't recall any of that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is that something you think you would recall?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I think so. I mean, he was — well, he was the same in the hot tub as he was at dinner, only more so, if that makes sense. It wasn't a slide towards a negative direction or injuries or anything like that. It was like he was holding forth even more once he got home. He seemed like more of — what's that?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Jovial.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Say again?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Jovial.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Outgoing.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Talkative. Very gregarious.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Hyper-verbal is what we call it in clinical work. Hyper-verbal.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And during his hyper-verbal session of word-vomiting all over the hot tub, did he mention that he had just been in an altercation of some type in the parking lot of the restaurant?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is that something you would have remembered?
JEFFREY LACASSE: I think I would have remembered that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is there any connection between you and the people that killed Dan Markel?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You weren't on the wiretap, were you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You weren't captured at all on the wiretap?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No.
MS. KAWASS: Judge, I'm going to object — outside the scope of cross.
JUDGE WHEELER: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You were asked on cross-examination about your alibi, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I know — if you didn't have that alibi, you might be a suspect in this case, right?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Well, you don't have any connection to the killers, do you?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Zero.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. You talked about the joke about hiring a hitman.
JEFFREY LACASSE: It was made in 2013. Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And the chilling statement about Charlie's serious interest in hiring a hitman was made to you five days before the murder, correct?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And it was referencing that he had done that in 2013.
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. But obviously - was the murder of Dan Markel accomplished in 2013?
JEFFREY LACASSE: No. Danny lived throughout 2013 and through half of 2014.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And it was accomplished in 2014.
JEFFREY LACASSE: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When Charlie Adelson was dating, who?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Katherine Magbanua. That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No further questions.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. We can release the witness.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'd like him to remain under the rule, Your Honor.
JUDGE WHEELER: Okay. You'll remain under subpoena.
JUDGE WHEELER: They'll let you know if you need to testify again, okay?
JEFFREY LACASSE: Thank you, sir.
JUDGE WHEELER: You're free to go.
JEFFREY LACASSE: Thank you.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right. We're going to take our lunch break now. I apologize — we have gone well over the noon hour, and we're almost at one o'clock.
JUDGE WHEELER: So I'm going to give you until two o'clock, and we'll start promptly with the testimony at that time.
JUDGE WHEELER: Please, again, no discussions with each other or with anyone else or any news reports or access to internet about the case. We'll see everybody back at two o'clock to start with the testimony at that time. Okay, thank you.
JUDGE WHEELER: All right.
JUDGE WHEELER: Jury's out of the courtroom, the door is closed. We'll be in recess until two o'clock, please. I know that we have one witness — an important witness — scheduled for this afternoon, but be mindful of the jury so that we finish as close to a regular workday as possible. Okay, we'll be in recess. We'll see everybody back here promptly at two o'clock, please. Thank you. Thank you.
JUDGE WHEELER: Madam Court reporter, I'm sorry we went so long.