6.John Sawicki — Direct/Cross/Redirect
340 linesMR. ZANGENEH: Judge, the defense calls John Sawicki. I'll go grab him, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Some courthouses have a witness room where we can kind of intercom to the witnesses to come in. we don't have anything like that. So the lawyers just have to go grab the witnesses. The bailiffs have special, you know, particular assignments. we don't send the bailiffs out to get witnesses.
(Pause in proceedings.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: If you would, face the clerk and be sworn, please, sir.
whereupon, JOHN SAWICKI, was called as a witness, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
JUDGE HANKINSON: Have a seat and slide up to the microphone, please, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: May I inquire, Judge?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. ZENGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Could you please introduce yourself to the members of the jury?
JOHN SAWICKI: My name is John Sawicki, S-A-wW-I-C-K-I.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's J-O-H-N or J-O-N?
JOHN SAWICKI: J-O-H-N.
MR. ZANGENEH: Can you tell the members of the jury how you are employed?
JOHN SAWICKI: I'm a forensic computer scientist and an electronic evidence consultant.
MR. ZANGENEH: What does that mean?
JOHN SAWICKI: Essentially, what that means is I dig through computers, cell phones, cell phone records, attempt to determine what the user's done with the device, document what I find, and prepare to testify about it later.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you spend any time conducting research with regards to cell tower analysis?
JOHN SAWICKI: I do.
MR. ZANGENEH: How long have you been employed in this manner?
JOHN SAWICKI: I started my company in 2011. I left my law practice to do this full-time in 2013.
MR. ZANGENEH: So before you became an expert in this field or someone that testifies with regards to this field, you were an attorney?
JOHN SAWICKI: I was, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And how long were you an attorney?
JOHN SAWICKI: I spent about seven or eight years practicing mostly labor and employment litigation.
MR. ZANGENEH: Not criminal defense?
JOHN SAWICKI: Not criminal defense, except for maybe a rare case.
MR. ZANGENEH: Are you admitted to practice law in the state of Florida?
JOHN SAWICKI: I am.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have any other special licenses?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have a private detective's license in Georgia.
MR. ZANGENEH: And before that?
JOHN SAWICKI: I spent nine years with the Douglas County, Oregon, Sheriff's Office.
MR. ZANGENEH: So law enforcement, private investigator, attorney, and now you testify with regards to this specialty?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: what kind of education do you have, if you don't mind me asking?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have an undergraduate degree from Georgia Fox University in management and human resources. I have a law degree from Florida State University. I have a graduate certificate in computer forensics from the University of Central Florida. I have a master's degree in digital forensics from the University of Central Florida.
MR. ZANGENEH: In addition to those degrees, do you have any specialized training in the field that you work in?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yeah, I have somewhere in the neighborhood of six to seven hundred hours of specialized training in computer and forensics applications, interpreting cell tower records, how cell phone networks operate.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have any training specifically in the area of cell tower analysis?
JOHN SAWICKI: I do.
MR. ZANGENEH: Can you tell the members of the jury what this training is?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yeah, I've had training from a company called Access Data in how cell call detail records work, how to interpret them. Training from a company called Teracom Training Institute, again, on how cell tower networks function and operate. I took a course from a company called PA Tech in how to map cell calls, cell tower activity. I've done graduate level course work in the area of radio frequency engineering through the University of California San Diego's extension program.
MR. ZANGENEH: About how many cases have you been involved in cell tower analysis?
JOHN SAWICKI: Somewhere in the neighborhood of six or seven hundred.
MR. ZANGENEH: And have they all been criminal cases?
JOHN SAWICKI: No, they have not. we started using cell tower analysis in civil cases as well.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you ever given expert testimony in this area?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have, probably 50 or 60 times.
MR. ZANGENEH: And does that mean that you've testified 50 or 60 times?
JOHN SAWICKI: Somewhere in that range. I don't have a complete log, but it's in that neighborhood.
MR. ZANGENEH: And these testimonies are in state or federal court or both?
JOHN SAWICKI: State and federal court in states across the country.
MR. ZANGENEH: How many of the Florida judicial circuits have you given expert testimony in?
JOHN SAWICKI: At this point I believe 15.
MR. ZANGENEH: And how many are there in total?
JOHN SAWICKI: There are 20.
MR. ZANGENEH: So 15 out of 20?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And what circuit are we in here?
JOHN SAWICKI: This would be the Second Judicial Circuit.
MR. ZANGENEH: How many times have you testified in the Second Judicial Circuit?
JOHN SAWICKI: A handful.
MR. ZANGENEH: How many cases on your case load are criminal versus civil in percentage wise?
JOHN SAWICKI: It fluctuates depending on the particular time, but at this point probably 60 or 70 percent are criminal.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you presented any training courses in this area of expertise that you have?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have. I routinely provide continuing legal education and training to judges and lawyers throughout Florida and Georgia in and how cell tower networks operate, how electronic devices store data, and how to extract that data.
MR. ZANGENEH: Your Honor, at this time I would tender Mr. Sawicki as an expert witness.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Any voir dire?
MS. NORRIS: No, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. You may proceed.
BY MR. ZENGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So you're familiar with this case, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: I am.
MR. ZANGENEH: And my firm has retained you with regards to your expertise in this field, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And my firm represents Mr. Garcia, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So you've gotten all the calls and the icloud stuff and all the other data that the jury's seen today, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: I don't know what the jury's seen today, but I've certainly had the opportunity to review a vast amount of data.
MR. ZANGENEH: And it is a lot of stuff, right?
JOHN SAWICKI: There's a lot of material.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So you're aware that there's a defendant in this case named Luis Rivera, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you're aware that there is -- I don't know if I call him a target or the person of interest, but you're aware who -- you know who Charlie Adelson is, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Do you know what kind of phone Luis Rivera had?
JOHN SAWICKI: I understand he had an iPhone.
MR. ZANGENEH: And when I'm talking about what kind of phone he had, I mean during the relevant portion of this case from June 2014 until, let's say, July of 2014.
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So Luis Rivera had an iPhone? That was your testimony?
JOHN SAWICKI: As I understand it.
MR. ZANGENEH: And what about Charlie Adelson, do you know what kind of phone he had?
JOHN SAWICKI: I understand he had an iPhone as well.
MR. ZANGENEH: And how would you know this? How do you get this information?
JOHN SAWICKI: From the records that I've reviewed.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And from the records you reviewed, can you tell the members of the jury -- like, you get an -- like, they both have AT&T, correct? Or at least I know Luis Rivera had AT&T, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: I believe they both had AT&T, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And when you get certain information from subpoena's from AT&T, do they provide this information to you, what kind of phone was used?
JOHN SAWICKI: They do. There's a series of records that you get in response to subpoenas or search warrants that the Government did in this case. You get subscriber records which would indicate who an account holder would be, when the account was established potentially, the address for the individual. You get -- also get call detail reports that list different activities on the phone. In case of AT&T it could be phone calls, SMS and MMS text messages, and data records as well.
MR. ZANGENEH: So with regards to iPhones, do iPhones have the ability to make a call or to send a message that would not show up on a call detail report?
JOHN SAWICKI: They do.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Explain to the members of the jury how something like this would happen?
JOHN SAWICKI: So the call detail record, essentially, shows the transaction I was just talking about, the phone calls and the text messages. It also shows the data, but that's like one big bucket. So you don't get to see every individual piece that's within it. But the phone is able to use a variety of different messaging platforms, calling platforms, that will never actually show on a call detail report as a phone call or as a text message.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, have you reviewed the iCloud extraction for Charlie Adelson in this case?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have.
MR. ZANGENEH: And when did you do that?
JOHN SAWICKI: Most recently over the weekend.
MR. ZANGENEH: This last weekend?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And did you find any evidence of deleted material in Charlie Adelson's iCcloud?
JOHN SAWICKI: I did.
MR. ZANGENEH: what does that mean?
JOHN SAWICKI: So there's really two different components to deleted material. The first piece -- let me take a step back. The iCloud shows material from the phone that's been backed up to the cloud, somebody else's server across the internet. And so in this case it happens to be Apple's server, and Apple stores those backups. That's kind of like taking a snapshot of the phone throughout time. In this particular iCloud backup, we can actually see that there is deleted material that's been marked as deleted both in the areas of phone calls and text messages.
MR. ZANGENEH: Are you able to show other deletions that aren't detailed in the icloud data?
JOHN SAWICKI: we can. One of the ways that we can do that is, we can look to areas where we know how many particular events occurred and see if that matches with the number of events that are shown within the icloud report. So for example --
MR. ZANGENEH: Could you give us a specific example?
JOHN SAWICKI: Sure. For example, within the iCloud report we see SMS messages and MMS messages. We also see those within the call detail report.
MR. ZANGENEH: And hold on. Are we talking about anyone in particular in this case? This is still Charlie Adelson's, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: well, we're speaking in general about AT&T and icloud, but specifically for Mr. Adelson we can see that as well.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is there -- was there a specific example on Mr. Adelson's iCloud account that you could tell the members of this jury which highlighted these deletions?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yeah. we were able to compare SMS and MMS messages for particular periods of time. And I think there were two different sets of call detail reports that I looked at to compare the call detail report to the icloud information to see what was actually there. And what we saw was a significant number of messages that appeared within the call detail report that didn't show up within the icloud information.
MR. ZANGENEH: So that means that there is a record of an actual event talking place, right?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And so iCloud is like -- and you described this to me the other day. So I want you to describe it to the members of the jury because I didn't understand how iCloud works. Can you tell the members of the jury how iCloud keeps track of your data?
JOHN SAWICKI: So the icloud data is, essentially, your phone automatically backing itself up to a computer remotely, and it does this -- depending on how it's set up -- at regular intervals or when you force it to do so. And so you effectively get a number of different snapshots of what it looks like across time.
MR. ZANGENEH: So let me ask you a question. So if an iPhone -- let's say Charlie Adelson's iPhone backs up at 9 o'clock, okay? well, let's say from 1 o'clock to 9 o'clock is when they do its data retrieval, and someone sends a message at 4 o'clock; and then deletes it. Would it be part of the call detail report?
JOHN SAWICKI: It should be part of the call detail report if it's sent as a text message.
MR. ZANGENEH: would it be in the iCcloud?
JOHN SAWICKI: Not necessarily. It could show in a couple of different ways. It could show -- well, actually, I take that back. It won't show it -- one way, it could show as deleted. If it's still sitting within the database within the phone for text messages at the time that it backs up, it could still show as a deleted text message. Or if it's been overwritten from that point, it won't show up at all.
MR. ZANGENEH: well, what about -- let me give you -- I know that we talked about this. Let's tell the members of the jury what you found out when you ran an analysis between May Ist of 2014 and June 20th of 2014 for Charlie Adelson. Do you remember how many messages were on his phone using SMS and MMS?
JOHN SAWICKI: If I could look on my notes?
MR. ZANGENEH: Of course you can. Let me -- take a look. Refresh your recollection. And when it's adequately refreshed, let me know.
JOHN SAWICKI: For the call detail report from May 1st to June 20th, there were 3,084 SMS and MMS messages. Within the icloud there were 1,241.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So let me -- I'm terrible with math. So let me go to my calculator here. So there were 3,084 messages and 1,084 of them appeared. That means there were 1,800 messages that were sent that don't appear in the iCloud documentation, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: That's more than half?
JOHN SAWICKI: It appears that way.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, did you review any other time periods? I mean, obviously, you know between May 1st and June 20th is kind of the beginning phases of this conspiracy, coming up to a relevant portion of this conspiracy. You're aware of that, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: well, did you review any other time periods to see if this was a consistent thing that Mr. Adelson did?
JOHN SAWICKI: I reviewed a second set of call detail reports from Mr. Adelson from June 18th of '14 through July 18th of ‘14.
MR. ZANGENEH: And during your review, how many call detail -- I'm sorry. HOW many messages were sent via SMS and MMS?
JOHN SAWICKI: The call detail report shows 1,587 messages sent.
MR. ZANGENEH: From Charlie Adelson, from his phone?
JOHN SAWICKI: well, sent or received.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Sent or received. How many of those appeared in the cellebrite extraction?
JOHN SAWICKI: 789.
MR. ZANGENEH: So 1,587 minus 789, so that means that 798 of those messages are gone, almost half?
JOHN SAWICKI: It's a significant number.
MR. ZANGENEH: And is there any way to account for what those messages said or who they were sent to?
JOHN SAWICKI: There's not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Can you explain this difference?
JOHN SAWICKI: All I can say is it's not in the icloud backup when that was created. So it could have been deleted. It could have -- there could have been some other reason it didn't back up to the cloud, but all we know is it wasn't captured.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you seen the iCloud data for Luis Rivera?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have not.
MR. ZANGENEH: You have not?
JOHN SAWICKI: No, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: what about Katie Magbanua?
JOHN SAWICKI: I've seen minimal iCloud data for Ms. Magbanua.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you reviewed Katie Magbanua's cell tower usage for the morning of July 19th, 2014?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did your review of Mr. Adelson's iCloud -- during your review, pardon me, of Mr. Adelson's iCloud account, did you find evidence of other communication platforms?
JOHN SAWICKI: I did.
MR. ZANGENEH: Was there evidence that he had a messaging app called whatsApp?
JOHN SAWICKI: There was.
MR. ZANGENEH: what about Threema?
JOHN SAWICKI: There was.
MR. ZANGENEH: And FaceTime?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: So is it possible that Charlie Adelson communicated directly with Luis Rivera?
JOHN SAWICKI: I can't exclude that possibility.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's based on the fact that he had these other messaging apps, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you reviewed Ms. Magbanua's phone records?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have.
MR. ZANGENEH: And were you able to identify the towers her phone used at the time the Government said -- suggested that she was at Jessica Rodriguez’ apartment on, I believe, July 19th, 2014?
JOHN SAWICKI: I was.
MR. ZANGENEH: where are those towers located?
JOHN SAWICKI: The towers that I understand the Government believes -- well, that the call detail report indicates she was using between 10:02 and 10:32 on the morning of the 19th, the tower is located about two-thirds of a mile southeast of Ms. Rodriguez's home right on Biscayne Boulevard.
MR. ZANGENEH: And is that tower located in between Charlie Adelson's addresses in Broward and Ms. Magbanua's residence in Miami Beach?
JOHN SAWICKI: I believe it is, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And have you ever been to Miami?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have.
MR. ZANGENEH: And would you disagree that Biscayne Boulevard is one of the most common traveled routes in South Florida for Miami?
JOHN SAWICKI: I can't speak to most common, but it is a heavily traveled street.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, let me ask you a question with regards to the antennas on that tower. How has Sprint identified the antennas on that tower?
JOHN SAWICKI: There's actually two sets of antennas on the tower.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm sorry. Let me ask you -- I forgot to ask you. Ms. Magbanua's phone is with the Sprint network, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And so how has Sprint identified the antennas on that tower?
JOHN SAWICKI: There are actually two sets of antennas on the tower which, basically, overlap one another. They've numbered the two sets as 7740 and 6740.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. How are these antennas laid out?
JOHN SAWICKI: So it's not unlike a typical cell structure in that we do have three antennas. Now, while many cell structures are laid out with each of those focused at 120-degree angles from one another so that you would have one at zero degrees, one at 120-degrees, one at 240-degrees, these are shifted slightly.
MR. ZANGENEH: And do you know what they are?
JOHN SAWICKI: If I could refer to my notes?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yeah, please. So normally it's zero, 120, and 240, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Correct. In this case it's 10-degrees, 200-degrees, and 260-degrees. So they've shifted them slightly.
MR. ZANGENEH: And do you know why the antennas aren't at the optimal 120-degree angle?
JOHN SAWICKI: well, in this case you have a highly traveled street which runs right next to the antenna. So it would make sense if they were shifted to increase the capacity. Antenna one, which would be to the north is pointed slightly to the northeast. So it, essentially, points right down Biscayne Boulevard. The other two antennas, which are pointing to the southeast and southwest, frankly, they're both pointing to the southwest slightly, have been shifted so they would shoot down the south of Biscayne Boulevard. Essentially, what it does is it creates additional coverage in the area.
MR. ZANGENEH: And this is the area between Ms. Magbanua's residence and Charlie Adelson's residence, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, were you able to determine the frequency of how often Ms. Magbanua's phone used that tower between May of 2014 and September of 2015?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yeah, approximately 1,100 times that her phone used that cell tower.
MR. ZANGENEH: So do you have a percentage of the amount of time that her phone was being used?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yeah, it's about 11 and a half percent of the overall antenna usage that they were able to track. And what I mean by that is, there is numbers of calls which Sprint hasn't recorded the antenna that's actually being used for it. So for those that they are actually able to establish a tower, about 11 and a half percent.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right.
JOHN SAWICKI: It was, actually, the third most used tower.
MR. ZANGENEH: So about a little over 10 percent of her time is between those areas, correct? It marks off with that cell tower?
JOHN SAWICKI: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Give me one second, Judge.
(Pause in proceedings.)
MR. ZANGENEH: JI have no further questions of Mr. Sawicki. Thank you.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Magbanua?
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DECOSTE:
MR. DECOSTE: Good afternoon.
JOHN SAWICKI: Good afternoon.
MR. DECOSTE: what's your name again?
JOHN SAWICKI: John Sawicki.
MR. DECOSTE: Have we ever met before?
JOHN SAWICKI: I can't tell you for sure.
MR. DECOSTE: You're not our expert on this case, right?
JOHN SAWICKI: No, sir.
MR. DECOSTE: You're tied over to Sigfredo Garcia?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. Quick question, quick topic. what is kicking for a tower?
JOHN SAWICKI: Kicking? I'm not familiar with that as a technical term. If you're referring to the process of a phone call using a tower other than the immediate tower next to it, I suppose that could be what you're referring to.
MR. DECOSTE: It is, yes. And sorry for using the crude language. Basically, if you could explain to this jury how somebody could be in the vicinity of a tower -- I could be close to a tower and within one sector but not communicating with that sector of that tower but instead communicating with another tower or a further away tower?
JOHN SAWICKI: Your question kind of anticipates that you would only connect to one tower from a particular location. That's certainly not the case. You could connect to a number of towers from any particular location depending on where you happen to be and the circumstances at a particular time.
The cell phone is going to connect to the tower with the strongest, cleanest signal. That could be the closest tower. It could not be the closest tower. It just depends on all the specifics of the network, of the geography of the area at that particular point in time.
MR. DECOSTE: If there were a lot of traffic -- and we're not talking about cell phone traffic. We're talking about vehicles. <A lot of traffic on somewhere like Biscayne, rush hour, people on the phone, and there's lot of traffic on one sector of one tower, could that cause somebody to not communicate with that sector and instead communicate with another tower?
JOHN SAWICKI: Your question presupposes you would have automatically connected to that tower in the first place. And I don't know that that's necessarily the case. If you are suggesting that you've got two towers in one location and because of network traffic at that point in time you're unable to connect to cell tower A and instead you connect to cell tower B, that's certainly possible. But regardless of that, you certainly have to be within the range of cell tower B.
MR. DECOSTE: And last question, that range, I know it's dependent on specific towers. You could be miles away from a tower and still communicating with that tower, right?
JOHN SAWICKI: Depending on the tower, yes.
MR. DECOSTE: And this is not just one or two miles, this can go up to ten or more miles; is that correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Depending on where you're at, absolutely.
MR. DECOSTE: One brief second, Your Honor.
(Pause in proceedings.)
MR. DECOSTE: No further questions. Thank you, Mr. Sawicki.
JUDGE HANKINSON: State?
MS. NORRIS: Can I have one moment, Your Honor?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Somebody needs a break. ATI right. we'll take ten minutes. Either side need anything?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: No, Judge.
MS. NORRIS: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Ten minutes.
(Jury exits.)
(Court is in recess.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's have the jury, please.
(Jury enters.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: Everybody have a seat, please.
State?
MS. NORRIS: Thank you, Judge.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. NORRIS:
MS. NORRIS: Good afternoon.
JOHN SAWICKI: Good afternoon.
MS. NORRIS: I want to start by asking you about the iCloud extraction that you looked at in comparison to the call detail records to determine if there were some messages from the call detail records that did not appear in the iCloud consistent with having been deleted, okay?
JOHN SAWICKI: Consistent with not being there?
MS. NORRIS: with not being there, excuse me. When you were using the call detail records to come up with your 3,084 text messages, SMS or MMS messages, were you just looking at the total numbers of text messages or the actual content to confirm that they were, in fact, text messages?
JOHN SAWICKI: Frankly, that's the overall number, yes.
MS. NORRIS: Okay. So that's the -- would you agree that sometimes when a cell phone is powered up, it receives you a notification that appears as a text message to alert you that you have a voice mail for example?
JOHN SAWICKI: It could do that occasionally, yes.
MS. NORRIS: And that could appear to be a text message although it's not?
JOHN SAWICKI: It could.
MS. NORRIS: So those were not excluded from that overall 3,084 number?
JOHN SAWICKI: That's true.
MS. NORRIS: Did you also look for that same time period Mr. Zangeneh asked you about at Katherine Magbanua's call details records compared to her icloud messages?
JOHN SAWICKI: The copy of the icloud messages they had for her didn't have content to them. So I wasn't able to compare them.
MS. NORRIS: Did you compare the numbers?
JOHN SAWICKI: No, I wasn't able to see the messages that were sent and received.
MS. NORRIS: So despite the fact that some of those text messages did not appear on the iCloud, there was still evidence in Katherine -- sorry, in Charlie Adelson's icloud that Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua were communicating?
JOHN SAWICKI: That's correct.
MS. NORRIS: And numerous of those messages were deleted?
JOHN SAWICKI: That's true.
MS. NORRIS: with respect to communications between Charlie Adelson or Luis Rivera, you found no evidence that Charlie Adelson communicated with Luis Rivera, did you?
JOHN SAWICKI: That's true.
MS. NORRIS: How many cell towers are there -- or cell sites are there between Charlie Adelson's residence in South Florida and Katherine Magbanua's residence?
JOHN SAWICKI: I didn't count the number of towers, but it's a fair distance. So there's going to be a large number of towers.
MS. NORRIS: would you agree that the towers are closer together in a highly populated area such as the one relevant to this case?
JOHN SAWICKI: Absolutely.
MS. NORRIS: They're not miles and miles apart, these towers, are they?
JOHN SAWICKI: That's correct.
MS. NORRIS: Specifically with respect to the time period on the morning of July 19th, 2014, between ten -- I believe it was 10:02 and 10:32 a.m.?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, ma'am.
MS. NORRIS: we were talking about a cell site or tower that Katherine Magbanua's phone was communicating with. Do you recall those questions?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, ma'am.
MS. NORRIS: You would agree with me that the cell site Katherine Magbanua was communicating with during that timeframe on July 19th, 2014, could be consistent with Jessica Rodriguez's house?
JOHN SAWICKI: There was certainly --
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
BY MS. NORRIS:
MS. NORRIS: I'm sorry. Let me ask that again. Do you agree that the cell site Katherine Magbanua's phone is communicating with the morning of July 19th during that 10:00 to 10:30 timeframe could be consistent with Jessica Rodriguez's house?
JOHN SAWICKI: There is certainly activity during that time period that could be, yes.
MS. NORRIS: Consistent with the house?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, ma'am.
MS. NORRIS: You mentioned that 11 percent of the activity for that particular antenna -- did you remember that 11 percent amount?
JOHN SAWICKI: I do.
MS. NORRIS: would that be consistent with Katherine Magbanua being at Jessica Rodriguez's house as being her friend?
JOHN SAWICKI: It could be.
MS. NORRIS: If I can have one moment, Judge?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Could I clarify a point on that. when you say -- I think you said 11 and a half percent, are you talking about in usage time or in number of instances?
JOHN SAWICKI: Your Honor, that's the number of instances.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay.
MS. NORRIS: I have no further questions, Judge. Thank you.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Garcia?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. ZENGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: You heard Ms. Norris ask you if there's any evidence of any activity between Charlie Adelson and Luis Rivera, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you said, no, right?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's because the evidence that you have is the iPhone -- the one iPhone that's related to Luis Rivera, correct?
MS. NORRIS: Objection. Leading.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZENGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: How many phones did you make that determination of that belonged to Luis Rivera?
JOHN SAWICKI: None.
MR. ZANGENEH: were you aware if Luis Rivera had multiple throw phones?
JOHN SAWICKI: I understand there's a number of devices that have been connected to him.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have those phone numbers?
JOHN SAWICKI: I don't have them now, no.
MR. ZANGENEH: So when Ms. Norris -- when the prosecutor asked you if there's any correlation between Charlie Adelson and Luis Rivera, you don't have all of Luis Rivera's contacts, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And if Charlie Adelson had been making FaceTime calls, would there be a record of that in the iCloud?
JOHN SAWICKI: There could be.
MR. ZANGENEH: Could there potentially not be a record of it if he deleted it right after he did it?
JOHN SAWICKI: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: As someone that testifies with regards to cell usage and telephones in general, are you aware that people that are involved in nefarious activities like drug dealers and gang members often use disposable phones?
MS. NORRIS: Objection. Lack of foundation and speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
JOHN SAWICKI: I am familiar with that, yes.
BY MR. ZENGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: And is that true?
JOHN SAWICKI: It is.
MR. ZANGENEH: No further questions.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Any juror have a question of this witness? All right. If not, you may step down. Do we need to keep him further?
MR. ZANGENEH: Not from us, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Anybody need him further?
MR. DECOSTE: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. You're excused.
JOHN SAWICKI: Thank you, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Call your next witness.