John Sawicki — Direct/Cross/Redirect
329 linesMR. ZANGENEH: The Defense calls John Sawicki.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Because Some courthouses have a witness room where we can kind of intercom to the witnesses to come in. We don't have anything like that, so the lawyers just have to go grab the witnesses. The bailiffs have a particular assignment, so we don't send the bailiffs out to get witnesses.
JOHN SAWICKI: I do.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Have a seat. Slide up the microphone, please.
MR. ZANGENEH: May I inquire, Judge?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
MR. ZANGENEH: Could you please introduce yourself to the members of the jury?
JOHN SAWICKI: My name is John Sawicki, S-A-W-I-C-K-I.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's J-O-H-N or J-O-N?
JOHN SAWICKI: J-O-H-N.
MR. ZANGENEH: Can you tell the members of the jury how you're employed?
JOHN SAWICKI: I'm a forensic computer scientist and an electronic evidence consultant.
MR. ZANGENEH: What does that mean?
JOHN SAWICKI: Essentially what that means is I dig through computers, cell phones, cell phone records, attempt to determine what the user's done with the device, document what I find, and prepare to testify about it later.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you spend any time conducting research with regards to cell tower analysis?
JOHN SAWICKI: I do.
MR. ZANGENEH: How long have you been employed in this manner?
JOHN SAWICKI: I started my company in 2011. I left my law practice to do this full-time in 2013.
MR. ZANGENEH: So before you became an expert in this field, or someone that testifies with regards to this field, you were an attorney?
JOHN SAWICKI: I was, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And how long were you an attorney?
JOHN SAWICKI: I spent about seven or eight years practicing mostly labor and employment litigation.
MR. ZANGENEH: Not criminal defense?
JOHN SAWICKI: Not criminal defense, except for maybe a rare case.
MR. ZANGENEH: Are you admitted to practice law in the State of Florida?
JOHN SAWICKI: I am.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have any other special licenses?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have a private detective's license in Georgia, and before that I spent nine years with the Douglas County, Oregon Sheriff's Office.
MR. ZANGENEH: So law enforcement, private investigator, attorney — and now this is what you do. Now you testify with regards to this specialty?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: What kind of education do you have?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have an undergraduate degree from George Fox University in management and human resources.
JOHN SAWICKI: I have a law degree from Florida State University.
JOHN SAWICKI: I have a graduate certificate in computer forensics from the University of Central Florida.
JOHN SAWICKI: I have a master's degree in digital forensics from the University of Central Florida.
MR. ZANGENEH: In addition to those degrees, do you have any specialized training in the field that you work in?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yeah, I have somewhere in the neighborhood of six to seven hundred hours of specialized training in computer forensics applications, interpreting cell tower records, how cell phone networks operate.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have any training specifically in the area of cell tower analysis?
JOHN SAWICKI: I do.
MR. ZANGENEH: Can you tell the members of the jury what this training is?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yeah, I've had training from a company called AccessData in how cell call detail records work, how to interpret them; training from a company called Terracom Training Institute, again on how cell tower networks function and operate.
JOHN SAWICKI: Took a course from a company called PATech in how to map cell calls, cell tower activity. I've done graduate-level coursework in the area of radio frequency engineering through the University of California San Diego's extension program.
MR. ZANGENEH: And how many cases have you been involved in involving cell tower analysis?
JOHN SAWICKI: Somewhere in the neighborhood of six or seven hundred.
MR. ZANGENEH: And have they all been criminal cases?
JOHN SAWICKI: No, they have not. We've started using cell tower analysis in civil cases as well.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you ever given expert testimony in this area?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have, probably 50 or 60 times.
MR. ZANGENEH: And does that mean that you've testified 50 or 60 times?
JOHN SAWICKI: Somewhere in that range. I don't have a complete log, but it's in that neighborhood.
MR. ZANGENEH: And these testimonies are in state or federal court?
JOHN SAWICKI: State and federal court, in states across the country.
MR. ZANGENEH: How many of the Florida judicial circuits have you given expert testimony in at this point?
JOHN SAWICKI: I believe 15.
MR. ZANGENEH: And how many are there in total?
JOHN SAWICKI: There are 20.
MR. ZANGENEH: So 15 out of 20.
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And what circuit are we in here?
JOHN SAWICKI: This would be the Second Judicial Circuit.
MR. ZANGENEH: And how many times have you testified in the Second Judicial?
JOHN SAWICKI: A handful.
MR. ZANGENEH: How many cases on your caseload are criminal versus civil, percentage-wise?
JOHN SAWICKI: It fluctuates depending on the particular time, but at this point probably 60 or 70% are criminal.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you presented any training courses in this area of expertise that you have?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have. I routinely provide continuing legal education training to judges and lawyers throughout Florida and Georgia in how cell tower networks operate, how electronic devices store data, and how to extract that data.
MR. ZANGENEH: Your Honor, at this time I will tender Mr. Sawicki as an expert witness.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Any voir dire?
MS. NORRIS: No, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So you're familiar with this case, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: I am.
MR. ZANGENEH: And my firm has retained you with regards to your expertise in this field, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And my firm represents Mr. Garcia, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So you've gotten all the calls and the iCloud stuff and all the other data that the jury's seen today, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: I don't know what the jury's seen today, but I've certainly had the opportunity to review a vast amount of data.
MR. ZANGENEH: And it's a lot of stuff, right?
JOHN SAWICKI: There's a lot of material.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So you're aware that there's a defendant in this case named Luis Rivera, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you're aware that there is — I don't know if I call him a target or a person of interest — but you know who Charlie Adelson is, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Do you know what kind of phone Luis Rivera had?
JOHN SAWICKI: I understand he had an iPhone.
MR. ZANGENEH: And when I'm talking about what kind of phone he had, I mean during the relevant portion of this case, from June 2014 till, let's say, July 2014.
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir. So Luis Rivera had an iPhone, as I understand it.
MR. ZANGENEH: And what about Charlie Adelson — do you know what kind of phone he had?
JOHN SAWICKI: I understand he had an iPhone as well.
MR. ZANGENEH: And how would you know this? How do you get this information?
JOHN SAWICKI: From the records that I've reviewed.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And from the records you reviewed, can you tell the members of the jury — they both had AT&T, correct? Or at least I know Luis Rivera had AT&T, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: I believe they both had AT&T, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And when you get certain information from subpoenas from AT&T, do they provide this information to you — what kind of phone was used?
JOHN SAWICKI: They do. There's a series of records that you get in response to subpoenas or search warrants that the government did in this case. You get subscriber records, which would indicate who an account holder would be, when the account was established, potentially the address for the individual.
JOHN SAWICKI: You also get call detail reports that list different activities on the phone — in the case of AT&T it could be phone calls, SMS and MMS text messages, and data records as well.
MR. ZANGENEH: So, with regards to iPhones, do iPhones have the ability to make a call or to send a message that would not show up on a call detail report?
JOHN SAWICKI: They do.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Okay, explain to the members of the jury how something like this would happen.
JOHN SAWICKI: So the call detail record essentially shows the transactions I was just talking about — the phone calls and the text messages. It also shows the data, but that's like one big bucket, so you don't get to see every individual piece that's within it.
JOHN SAWICKI: But the phone is able to use a variety of different messaging platforms, calling platforms, that will never actually show on a call detail report as a phone call or as a text message.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you reviewed the iCloud extraction for Charlie Adelson?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have.
MR. ZANGENEH: And when did you do that?
JOHN SAWICKI: Most recently over the weekend.
MR. ZANGENEH: This current — this last weekend?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And did you find any evidence of deleted material in Charlie Adelson's iCloud?
JOHN SAWICKI: I did.
MR. ZANGENEH: What does that mean?
JOHN SAWICKI: So there's really two different components to deleted material.
JOHN SAWICKI: The first piece — let me take a step back. The iCloud shows material from the phone that's been backed up to the cloud, somebody else's server across the internet.
JOHN SAWICKI: And so in this case it happens to be Apple's server, and Apple stores those backups. That's kind of like taking a snapshot of the phone throughout time. In this particular iCloud backup, we can actually see that there is deleted material that's been marked as deleted, both in the areas of phone calls and text messages.
MR. ZANGENEH: Are you able to show other deletions that aren't detailed in the iCloud data?
JOHN SAWICKI: We can. One of the ways we can do that is we can look to areas where we know how many particular events occurred and see if that matches with the number of events that are shown within the iCloud report.
JOHN SAWICKI: So for example, within the iCloud report, we see SMS messages and MMS messages. We also see those within the call detail report.
MR. ZANGENEH: Are we talking about anyone in particular in this case? This is still Charlie Adelson, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: We're speaking in general about AT&T and iCloud, but specifically for Mr. Adelson, we can see that as well.
MR. ZANGENEH: Was there a specific example on Mr. Adelson's iCloud account that you could tell the members of this jury which highlighted these deletions?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yeah. We were able to compare SMS and MMS messages for particular periods of time. And I think there were two different sets of call detail reports that I looked at, to compare the call detail report to the iCloud information to see what was actually there.
JOHN SAWICKI: And what we saw was a significant number of messages that appeared within the call detail report that didn't show up within the iCloud information.
MR. ZANGENEH: So that means that there is a record of an actual event taking place, right?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And so iCloud is like — and you described this to me the other day, so I want you to describe it to the members of the jury, because I didn't understand how iCloud works. Can you tell the members of the jury how iCloud keeps track of your data?
JOHN SAWICKI: So the iCloud data is essentially your phone automatically backing itself up to a computer remotely, and it does this — however it's set up — at regular intervals, or when you force it to do so. And so you effectively get a number of different snapshots of what it looks like across time.
MR. ZANGENEH: So let me ask you a question. So if an iPhone — let's say Charlie Adelson's iPhone — backs up at nine o'clock, okay, and let's say from one o'clock to nine o'clock is when it does its data retrieval, and someone sends a message at four o'clock and then deletes it, would it be part of the call detail report?
JOHN SAWICKI: It should be part of the call detail report if it's sent as a text message.
MR. ZANGENEH: Would it be in the iCloud?
JOHN SAWICKI: Not necessarily.
JOHN SAWICKI: It could show in a couple of different ways. It could show — well, actually, I take that back. It'll only show in one way. It could show as deleted.
JOHN SAWICKI: If it's still sitting within the database, within the phone for text messages at the time that it backs up, it could still show as a deleted text message. Or if it's been overwritten from that point, it won't show up at all.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, what about — but let me give you — I know that we talked about this. Let's tell the members of the jury what you found out when you ran an analysis between May 1st of 2014 and June 20th of 2014 for Charlie Adelson. Do you remember how many messages were on his phone using SMS and MMS?
JOHN SAWICKI: If I could look at my notes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Of course you can.
JOHN SAWICKI: Let me — for the call detail report from May 1st to June 20th, there were 3,084 SMS and MMS messages. Within the iCloud, there were 1,241.
MR. ZANGENEH: So let me — I'm terrible with math, so let me go to my calculator here. So there were 3,084 messages and 1,084 of them appeared. That means there were 1,800 messages that were sent that don't appear in the iCloud documentation.
JOHN SAWICKI: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: That's more than half.
JOHN SAWICKI: It appears that way.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, did you review any other time period? I mean, obviously, you know, between May 1st and June 20th is kind of the beginning phases of this conspiracy, coming up to a relevant portion of this conspiracy. You're aware of that, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, did you review any other time periods to see if this was a consistent thing that Mr. Adelson did?
JOHN SAWICKI: I reviewed a second set of call detail reports from Mr. Adelson, from June 18th of '14 through July 18th of '14.
MR. ZANGENEH: And during your review, how many — could you tell me — I'm sorry, how many messages were sent via SMS and MMS?
JOHN SAWICKI: The call detail reports show 1,587 messages sent.
MR. ZANGENEH: From Charlie?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir. Well, sent or received.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, sent or received.
MR. ZANGENEH: How many of those appeared in the Cellebrite extraction?
JOHN SAWICKI: 789.
MR. ZANGENEH: So 1,587 minus 789.
MR. ZANGENEH: 1,587 minus 789. So that means that 798 of those messages are gone. Almost half.
JOHN SAWICKI: It's a significant number.
MR. ZANGENEH: And is there any way to account for what those messages said or who they were sent to?
JOHN SAWICKI: There's not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Can you explain this difference there?
JOHN SAWICKI: All I can say is it's not in the iCloud backup when that was created. So it could have been deleted, it could have — there could have been some other reason it didn't back up to the cloud. But all we know is it wasn't captured.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you seen the iCloud data for Luis Rivera?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have not.
MR. ZANGENEH: What about Katie Magbanua?
JOHN SAWICKI: I've seen minimal iCloud data for Ms. Magbanua.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you reviewed Katie Magbanua's cell tower usage for the morning of July 19th, 2014?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did your review of Mr. Adelson's iCloud — during your review, pardon me, of Mr. Adelson's iCloud account, did you find evidence of other communication platforms?
JOHN SAWICKI: I did.
MR. ZANGENEH: Was there evidence that he had a messaging app called WhatsApp?
JOHN SAWICKI: There was.
MR. ZANGENEH: What about Threema?
JOHN SAWICKI: There was.
MR. ZANGENEH: And FaceTime?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: So is it possible that Charlie Adelson communicated directly with Luis Rivera?
JOHN SAWICKI: I can't exclude that possibility.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's based on the fact that he had these other messaging apps, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you reviewed Ms. Magbanua's phone records?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have.
MR. ZANGENEH: And were you able to identify the towers her phone used at the time the government suggested that she was in Jessica Rodriguez's apartment on, I believe, July 19th, 2014?
JOHN SAWICKI: I was.
MR. ZANGENEH: Where are those towers located?
JOHN SAWICKI: The tower that I understand the government believes — well, the call detail report indicates she was using between 10:02 and 10:32 on the morning of the 19th.
JOHN SAWICKI: The tower is located about two-thirds of a mile southeast of Ms. Rodriguez's home, right on Biscayne Boulevard.
MR. ZANGENEH: And is that tower located in between Charlie Adelson's address in Broward and Ms. Magbanua's residence in Miami Beach?
JOHN SAWICKI: I believe it is, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And have you ever been to Miami?
JOHN SAWICKI: I have.
MR. ZANGENEH: Would you disagree that Biscayne Boulevard is one of the most common travel routes in South Florida, for Miami?
JOHN SAWICKI: I can't speak to most common, but it is a heavily traveled street.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now let me ask you a question with regards to the antennas on that tower. How has Sprint identified the antennas on that tower?
JOHN SAWICKI: There's actually two sets of antennas on the tower.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm sorry, let me ask you that — I forgot to ask you: Ms. Magbanua's phone is with the Sprint network, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And so how does Sprint identify the antennas on that tower?
JOHN SAWICKI: There are actually two sets of antennas on the tower, which basically overlap one another.
JOHN SAWICKI: They've numbered the two sets as 7740 and 6740.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. How are these antennas laid out?
JOHN SAWICKI: So it's not unlike a typical cell structure, in that we do have three antennas.
JOHN SAWICKI: Now, while many cell structures are laid out with each of those focused at 120-degree angles from one another, so that you would have one at zero degrees, one at 120 degrees, one at 240 degrees, these are shifted slightly.
MR. ZANGENEH: And do you know what they are?
JOHN SAWICKI: If I could refer to my notes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Yeah, please.
MR. ZANGENEH: So normally it's 0, 120, and 240, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Correct. In this case it's 10 degrees, 200 degrees, and 260 degrees.
JOHN SAWICKI: So they've shifted them slightly.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you know why the antennas aren't at the optimal 120-degree angle?
JOHN SAWICKI: Well, in this case you have a highly traveled street which runs right next to the antenna, so it would make sense if they were shifted to increase the capacity.
JOHN SAWICKI: Antenna 1, which we do to the north, is pointed slightly to the northeast, so it essentially points right down Biscayne Boulevard. The other two antennas, which are pointing to the southeast and the southwest — frankly, they're both pointing to the southwest slightly — have been shifted so they would shoot down the south of Biscayne Boulevard. Essentially what it does is it creates additional coverage in the area.
MR. ZANGENEH: And this is the area between Ms. Magbanua's residence and Charlie Adelson's residence?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, were you able to determine the frequency of how often Ms. Magbanua's phone used that tower between May of 2014 and September of 2015?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yeah, approximately 1,100 times that her phone used that cell tower.
MR. ZANGENEH: So do you have a percentage of the amount of time that her phone was being used?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yeah, it's about 11.5% of the overall antenna usage that they were able to track. And what I mean by that is there's a number of calls for which Sprint hasn't recorded the antenna that's actually being used. So for those that they're actually able to establish a tower, about 11.5% — it was actually the third most used tower.
MR. ZANGENEH: So about a little over 10% of her phone's Correct? All right, it marks off with that cell tower.
MR. ZANGENEH: I have no further questions of Mr. Sawicki, thank you.
MR. DECOSTE: Good afternoon.
MR. DECOSTE: What's your name again?
JOHN SAWICKI: John Sawicki.
MR. DECOSTE: Have we ever met before?
JOHN SAWICKI: I can't tell you for sure.
MR. DECOSTE: You're not our expert on this case, right?
JOHN SAWICKI: No, sir.
MR. DECOSTE: You're tied over to Sigfredo Garcia.
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. DECOSTE: Quick question, quick topic.
MR. DECOSTE: What is kicking for a tower?
JOHN SAWICKI: Kicking — I'm not familiar with that as a technical term. If you're referring to the process of a phone call using a tower other than the immediate tower next to it, I suppose that could be what you're referring to.
MR. DECOSTE: It is, yes, and sorry for using the crude language.
MR. DECOSTE: Basically, if you could explain to this jury how somebody could be in the vicinity of a tower, be close to a tower within one section, but not communicate.
JOHN SAWICKI: Your question kind of anticipates that you would only connect to one tower from a particular location. It's certainly not the case. You could connect to a number of towers from any particular location, depending on where you happen to be in the circumstances at a particular time.
JOHN SAWICKI: The cell phone is going to connect to the tower with the strongest, cleanest signal.
JOHN SAWICKI: That could be the closest tower.
JOHN SAWICKI: It could not be the closest tower. It just depends on all the specifics of the network, of the geography of the area at that particular point in time.
MR. DECOSTE: If there were a lot of traffic — and we're not talking about cell phone traffic, we're talking about vehicles — a lot of traffic on somewhere like Biscayne, rush hour, people on the phone, and there's a lot of traffic on one sector of one tower, could that cause somebody to not communicate with that sector and instead communicate with another tower?
JOHN SAWICKI: Your question presupposes you would have automatically connected to that tower in the first place. I don't know that that's necessarily the case. If you are suggesting that you've got two towers in one location and, because of network traffic at that point in time, you're unable to connect to cell tower A and instead you connect to cell tower B, that's certainly possible. But regardless of that, you certainly have to be within the range of cell tower B.
MR. DECOSTE: And last question — that range, I know it's dependent on specific towers. You can be miles away from a tower and still be communicating with that tower, right?
JOHN SAWICKI: Depending on the tower, yes.
MR. DECOSTE: And this is not just one or two miles. This can go up to ten or more miles, is that correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Depending on where you're at, absolutely. Absolutely.
MR. DECOSTE: One brief second, Your Honor. No further questions.
JUDGE HANKINSON: State.
MS. NORRIS: Can I have one moment, Your Honor?
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. We'll take ten minutes.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Either side, anything?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Ten minutes.
MS. NORRIS: Thank you, Judge. Good afternoon.
JOHN SAWICKI: Good afternoon.
MS. NORRIS: I want to start by asking you about the iCloud extraction that you looked at in comparison to the call detail records to determine that there were some messages from the call detail records that did not appear in the iCloud, consistent with having been deleted. Okay?
JOHN SAWICKI: Consistent with not being there.
MS. NORRIS: When you were using the call detail records to come up with your 3,084 for text messages, SMS or MMS messages, were you just looking at the total numbers of text messages, or the actual content to confirm that they were, in fact, text messages?
JOHN SAWICKI: Frankly, that's the overall number, yes.
MS. NORRIS: Okay, so that's the... Would you agree that sometimes when a cell phone is powered up, it receives a notification that appears as a text message to alert you that you have a voicemail, for example?
JOHN SAWICKI: It could do that occasionally, yes.
MS. NORRIS: And that could appear to be a text message, although it's not?
JOHN SAWICKI: It could.
MS. NORRIS: So those were not excluded from that overall 3,084 number.
JOHN SAWICKI: That's true.
MS. NORRIS: Did you also look, for that same time period Mr. Zangeneh asked you about, at Katherine Magbanua's call detail records compared to her iCloud messages?
JOHN SAWICKI: The copy of the iCloud messages they had for her didn't have content to them, so I wasn't able to compare them.
MS. NORRIS: Did you compare the numbers?
JOHN SAWICKI: No, I wasn't able to see the messages that were sent, received, so...
MS. NORRIS: Despite the fact that some of those text messages did not appear on the iCloud, there was still evidence in Charlie Adelson's iCloud that Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua were communicating.
JOHN SAWICKI: That's correct.
MS. NORRIS: And numerous of those messages were deleted.
JOHN SAWICKI: That's true.
MS. NORRIS: With respect to communications between Charlie Adelson or Luis Rivera, you found no evidence that Charlie Adelson communicated with Luis Rivera, did you?
JOHN SAWICKI: That's true.
MS. NORRIS: How many cell towers are there — cell sites are there — between Charlie Adelson's residence in South Florida and Katherine Magbanua's?
JOHN SAWICKI: I didn't count the number of towers, but it's a fair distance, so there's going to be a large number of towers.
MS. NORRIS: Would you agree that the towers are closer together in a highly populated area, such as the one relevant to this case?
JOHN SAWICKI: Absolutely.
MS. NORRIS: Okay, they're not miles and miles apart, these towers, are they?
JOHN SAWICKI: That's correct.
MS. NORRIS: Specifically with respect to the time period on the morning of July 19, 2014, between 10 — I believe it was 10:02 and 10:32 a.m.?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, ma'am.
MS. NORRIS: we were talking about a cell site or tower that Katherine Magbanua's phone was communicating with.
MS. NORRIS: Do you recall those questions?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, ma'am.
MS. NORRIS: You would agree with me that the cell site Katherine Magbanua was communicating with during that time frame on July 19th, 2014 could be consistent with Jessica Rodriguez's house?
JOHN SAWICKI: There are certainly intentions.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
MS. NORRIS: I'm sorry. Let me ask that again. Do you agree that the cell site Katherine Magbanua's phone is communicating with the morning of July 19th, during that 10:00 to 10:30 time frame, could be consistent with Jessica Rodriguez's house?
JOHN SAWICKI: There's certainly activity during that time period that could be, yes.
MS. NORRIS: Consistent with the house?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, ma'am.
MS. NORRIS: You mentioned that 11% of the activity for that particular antenna.
MS. NORRIS: Do you remember that 11% amount?
JOHN SAWICKI: I do.
MS. NORRIS: Would that be consistent with Katherine Magbanua being at Jessica Rodriguez's house as an inner friend?
JOHN SAWICKI: It could be.
MS. NORRIS: One moment, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Can I clarify a point on that? When you say — I think you said 11 and a half percent — are you talking about in usage time or in the number of incidents?
JOHN SAWICKI: Your Honor, that's the number of instances.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay.
MS. NORRIS: I have no further questions, Judge. Thank you.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Garcia.
MR. ZANGENEH: You heard Ms. Norris ask you if there's any evidence of any activity between Charlie Adelson and Luis Rivera, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: You said no, right?
JOHN SAWICKI: Yes, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's because the evidence that you have is the iPhone, the one iPhone that's related to Luis Rivera, correct?
MS. NORRIS: Objection. Leading.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
MR. ZANGENEH: How many phones did you make that determination of, that belonged to Luis Rivera?
JOHN SAWICKI: None.
MR. ZANGENEH: Were you aware if Luis Rivera had multiple throw phones?
JOHN SAWICKI: I understand there's a number of devices that have been connected to him.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have those phone numbers?
JOHN SAWICKI: I don't have them now, no.
MR. ZANGENEH: So when Ms. Norris — when the prosecutor — asked you if there's any correlation between Charlie Adelson and Luis Rivera, you don't have all of Luis Rivera's contacts, correct?
JOHN SAWICKI: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Charlie Adelson had been making FaceTime calls.
MR. ZANGENEH: Would there be a record of that in the iCloud?
JOHN SAWICKI: There could be.
MR. ZANGENEH: Could there potentially not be a record of it if you deleted it right after you did it?
JOHN SAWICKI: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: As someone that testifies with regards to cell usage and telephones in general, are you aware that people that are involved in nefarious activities, like drug dealers or gang members, often use disposable phones?
MS. NORRIS: Objection. Lack of foundation and speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
JOHN SAWICKI: I am familiar with that, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And is that true?
JOHN SAWICKI: It is.
MR. ZANGENEH: No further questions.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Did anyone else have a question of this witness?
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. If not, you may step down. Do we need to keep him further?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Anybody need him further?
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. You're excused. Call your next witness.