Patrick Sanford — Direct/Cross/Voir Dire
2,777 linesMS. CAPPLEMAN: The State calls Pat Sanford.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sir, please introduce yourself and spell your name.
PATRICK SANFORD: Special Agent Patrick Sanford, P-A-T-R-I-C-K S-A-N-F-O-R-D.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How are you employed?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm a special agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How long have you been so employed?
PATRICK SANFORD: A little over 20 years.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And were you involved in the investigation regarding the death of Dan Markel?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What was your role in reference to that investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: Starting out, I was just assisting with covering leads, chasing down out-of-town leads, and then became a partner, a co-investigator on the case. So I was the FBI's lead investigator eventually.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So originally you were assisting. Who are you assisting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Tallahassee Police Department.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And eventually you kind of became equal partners with, I guess, Detective Isom with the Tallahassee Police Department.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was it unusual — is there anything unusual about the FBI assisting local law enforcement?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, that's part of our duties.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you talk a little bit about what, if any, efforts you made to identify any connection between Luis Rivera and Charlie Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. We started out — once we identified Mr. Rivera, I did a thorough, extensive background, I should say, on all of his past history, where his former addresses that he lived at, former phone numbers that he had. Once we did that, we already had all the phone numbers from Mr. Adelson, and we compared all those numbers to try to cross-reference and scrub — basically is what we call it, scrubbing our databases — to see if there's any links whatsoever between the two of them, any phone calls, any way they would have crossed paths or anything like that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And with what result?
PATRICK SANFORD: There was negative results. There was no contacts whatsoever between the two of them.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Are you familiar with the federal RICO investigation that included a wiretap on Mr. Rivera's phone?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And that was a separate investigation from the murder investigation, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. That was conducted down in Miami.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. But since you had a wiretap on Mr. Rivera's phone, was that something that was looked at, to see were there any communications on that wiretap which suggested that Mr. Rivera was in communication with Mr. Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did. We communicated with the agents down in South Florida and had them scrub their databases for any communications with Mr. Adelson, also just compared any communications that they had with his co-defendants, and tried to compare with any of our phone numbers that we had. We also took the phone numbers, subscriber list basically, from their case. They provided it to me and I provided it to TPD to compare with all of the phone numbers that we had involving this case.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And I want to talk about Mr. Rivera's proffer in a moment. Were you present for some meetings with Mr. Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, but I apologize for jumping around a little bit. First, I want to approach — the State's 85. Contact with a witness by the name of Chadrick Nobles.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And as part of that contact, was Mr. Nobles presented with some photographic lineups containing photos of both Sigfredo Garcia and Luis Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And I want you to take a look at those exhibits and see if those are the actual lineups that were shown to the witness, Mr.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Nobles?
PATRICK SANFORD: That one was of Mr. Rivera.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If you'll just leave them out, because I'm going to publish them.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I don't know how to do it.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I'm afraid to touch those things.
JUDGE HANKINSON: If you move it wrong, it starts to flash and disconnects it. I'm not going to be responsible.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what about State's 86?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, that's the one of Mr. Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Judge, at this time, I'd ask to move into evidence State's 85 and 86.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection?
MR. DECOSTE: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: It will be admitted.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can I ask, what was the procedure for showing the lineup to a witness, as it was done in this case with Mr.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Nobles?
PATRICK SANFORD: We just provided him each one of the photographs individually and told him that the subject that he was talking about may or may not be in this photo lineup, showed him one picture at a time, and then turned the photo over and let him see the next photo.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he identified Mr. Rivera. That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: He also initialed the bottom of the picture?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
PATRICK SANFORD: That is correct.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he was.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. You mentioned being present at Mr. Rivera's proffer. Were you present at the 9-30, September 30th, 2016 meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I was. Investigator Isom, Mr. Rivera, Mr. Rivera's attorney, Mr. Collins.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Which Mr. Collins? We've got a couple of those, if you know.
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe it's the old one. David Collins.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: David Collins. All right. And do you have any recollection of a procedure where information was passing back and forth between Mr.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Rivera and law enforcement through the lawyer, Mr. Collins?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry, can you repeat that question?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you have any recollection of a procedure that was used at that meeting whereby information was traveling from law enforcement back and forth to Mr. Rivera, with the lawyer being used as a go-between?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So what was the procedure at the meeting that you were present for?
PATRICK SANFORD: We just sat down to do an interview with him and just asked him to basically tell us what happened. It was basically a fact-finding mission for us.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And during the meeting that you were present at — so you directly had contact with Mr. Rivera at the first meeting you were present at?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And were you permitted to ask Mr. Rivera questions?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we were.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And can you describe for the jury a little bit about what types of questions you would ask in a proffer like that?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's basically very open-ended questions.
PATRICK SANFORD: We're trying to gauge his truthfulness, so we ask him basically, you know, what happened, where were you, who told you, things like that.
PATRICK SANFORD: So it's very open-ended. We don't want to feed him information. We don't want to lead him at all. We don't want him to know what we know. That way we can verify whether he's telling us the truth or not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And during the time that you were present at the meeting on 9-30 of '16, did anybody in your presence feed Mr. Rivera any information, or try to lead or correct Mr. Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: Absolutely not. It was actually the opposite.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was there specifically some things that Mr. Rivera was not correct about?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: One thing was where he talked about getting a ticket. We knew he had a ticket on the way up the first trip. He told us that he got a ticket on the second trip in the Toyota Prius, which we knew was not correct. But it was his memory, and that's what we want him to do — is tell us what he remembers, not what we know what happened. We want him to tell us what he thinks.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So you didn't make any effort to correct him for fear that it would be like you're trying to shape his testimony?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you also participate in the ride-around Tallahassee that was done that same day, where Mr. Rivera was pointing out different routes that they took when they were up here?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct, I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. What do you remember about that?
PATRICK SANFORD: We basically did the same thing. We let him tell us where to go, tried to let him remember certain things and landmarks to tell us which way to go, which way to end up, things like that. So we just sat back and kind of let him tell us what he did on those days and how he knew that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And as part of that, did you ride around the area of the crime scene, and he pointed out some parks near the crime scene, that sort of thing?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And then later there was another ride-around, or more than one ride-around, looking for the gun, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, but that was not done on the 9-30-16 date?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I don't believe so.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And then did you also participate in a recorded interview with Mr. Rivera on October 4th of 2016?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And what was the procedure used in that interview? Was it any different from the way you handled the 9-30-16 interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, basically the same thing. We let him tell us what happened.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was Mr. Rivera fed or led with information at all by any parties at that 10-4-16 meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Absolutely not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was Mr. Rivera's testimony inconsistent in some way at the 10-4-16 from the 9-30-16?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it was very consistent.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you learn anything new? I mean, this proffer is done, what, two years after the murder?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. More than two years.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: A little over.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was there anything new that you learned from Mr. Rivera that law enforcement had not already known, or was able to corroborate independently from information you already had?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: One was where he told us a story about how the gun went off. Mr. Garcia had the gun go off in the vehicle and shot through the vehicle and actually disabled the gas line on the vehicle.
PATRICK SANFORD: No, we had information their car broke down, but we didn't know why it broke down.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Anything else?
PATRICK SANFORD: ...homicide.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you know about that already?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. The only thing we did know was there was what appeared to be a green Prius behind him on some bank surveillance footage. That was the only thing that I had at the time that indicated they followed him to the daycare.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: But at that time, was law enforcement aware of a witness by the name of Keith Leland at the daycare who actually saw a green Prius?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he was not aware of him.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What about the stapled money?
PATRICK SANFORD: He told us about the money that he received for the actual committing of the crime was stapled, and we didn't have any indication of that from anybody at that point.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was there anything significant to you at that time that you first heard that about the stapling? Anything significant about it? I mean, was the witness June Umchinda — had that witness been developed at the time Mr. Rivera gave his statement?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she had not been.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So at the time that Mr. Rivera told you his money was stapled, you didn't know that Mr. Adelson makes a practice of stapling his money?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. That was new information to us.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I want to ask you about the efforts to look for the gun. We've touched on that. What role did you have in the efforts to try to locate the murder weapon in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: We took Mr. Rivera out of the jail and drove him down the route that he had taken on the way back. We took him down there twice looking for the gun.
PATRICK SANFORD: And finally found a bridge that he believed looked very similar, and he thought was probably the bridge.
PATRICK SANFORD: After that, I assembled a team of what we call evidence response team members.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Where was that bridge?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was in Tampa, outside of Tampa.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: I requested assistance from our Tampa division, from their evidence response team, and we went to that location.
PATRICK SANFORD: It was off the I-75, right at the river. We went down and cleared all the brush, used weed eaters, trimmers, and metal detectors, and looked all through the brush. Didn't find it that day. I came back with a dive team after that, because there's water further away from the road where the gun could have made it to the river. So I came back with a dive team that we have out of our Miami division, brought them there, and we did a cordon off — basically a grid search in the river.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How much time had passed between the time that, according to Mr. Rivera, the gun was deposited there and the time that you were looking for it?
PATRICK SANFORD: Over two years.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And did you find the gun?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, we did not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And this location that you spent a lot of time looking at — was it like Mr. Rivera took you right there, or was there some confusion about exactly where it could have been?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, there was confusion. The first trip down, he saw several bridges that were similar, but he wasn't quite sure. And that one he thought was right the first trip — that particular river he thought was one that preceded the one he threw it off on. He kept looking for the next one, the next one. So he wasn't real sure the first trip. We went back the second time, and he looked at the guardrails. There might have been some changes to the location since he threw it over, like the guardrail might be missing now.
PATRICK SANFORD: But there was definitely some confusion. He wasn't positive.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You said "since he threw it over." Who's the "he" in that sense?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sorry, since Mr. Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So Rivera was never inconsistent about who threw the gun?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he was not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: We've learned about a black Lexus that Ms. Magbanua was driving. Do you have any knowledge of that black Lexus?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you tell us about the surveillance efforts that were made on Ms. Magbanua around the time of — I have it November of '15 to May of '15?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Hearsay.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's hear the question. Let's ask a little more specific questions.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What surveillance efforts were being made on Katherine Magbanua between November of '15 and May of '15?
JUDGE HANKINSON: I'll sustain to the extent that he's reporting what someone else has told him.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you have any personal observations that occurred during that time?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Could you tell us about those, please?
PATRICK SANFORD: We had video surveillance on her residence at that time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And that's something that you reviewed?
PATRICK SANFORD: It is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was Ms. Magbanua observed during that time frame driving the black Lexus?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, she was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was Ms. Magbanua driving the black Lexus at the time of her arrest?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Best evidence and improper opinion.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was Ms. Magbanua driving the black Lexus at the time of her arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, she was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I want to talk about the undercover operation, or what's been referred to as "the bump." I want to draw your attention to April 19, 2016. Could you just briefly explain for the jury the investigative strategy for doing this type of undercover operation?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure. We had good evidence on who committed the crime.
PATRICK SANFORD: We also had good evidence on —
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, improper characterization of the evidence.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was the purpose of the investigation, or the undercover operation, to gather evidence on who's involved in the conspiracy and what each person's role in the conspiracy is?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So could you just kind of tell the jury what the idea was, how it was going to go down?
PATRICK SANFORD: We wanted to bring an undercover in who pretended to be a gang member who was an associate of Mr. Rivera.
PATRICK SANFORD: We knew that Mr. Rivera was in jail. We knew that Mr. Rivera was having financial issues, and we wanted to insert somebody into this equation to get people talking again, because it had been over a year since the crime was committed and we knew that they probably weren't talking about it anymore. So we wanted to try to gather evidence on who was actually responsible for creating the crime and committing the crime. So we wanted to insert that information in there and have them start talking and communicating again. He was supposed to approach Mrs. Adelson and provide her with a flyer, basically, that just had information about the murder — it was basically a news article — and just basically tell her that he was friends with who he called Tuto, which is Mr. Rivera, and that he knew everything, and that he wanted her to help him out financially.
PATRICK SANFORD: He was hurting financially and wanted the family to help him out financially.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Were you present during this — what we're calling the bump — the contact between the undercover and Mrs. Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct, I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Did you see the flyer that the undercover handed to Mrs. Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Could you describe it for the jury?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection — hearsay, best evidence.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
PATRICK SANFORD: It was a news article that we printed out off the internet.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did it have a photograph of Mr. Markel?
PATRICK SANFORD: It did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and what else? Was there anything handwritten on the news article?
PATRICK SANFORD: There was. We wrote the number $5,000 and a phone number of the undercover agent.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you have that phone number?
PATRICK SANFORD: I do. It's 305-712-6570, I believe.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was that going to be a number that law enforcement would monitor if anyone called it?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was. It was an FBI number that we had established.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and we have already watched the video of the bump itself.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Were you able to listen in real time, as law enforcement, to the calls that succeeded that interaction between the undercover and Ms. Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And I want to draw your attention to State's Exhibit 138. Have you had an opportunity to review the disk, State's 138?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does State's 138 contain fair and accurate calls that were captured on that wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: It does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time I'd ask to move in evidence State's 138.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Subject to my prior ruling. Yes, sir. Is there any additional objection?
MR. DECOSTE: Nothing additional, Your Honor.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So who calls who? Who calls who first? I guess we give the note to Donna. What does she do?
PATRICK SANFORD: She immediately stuffs it in her pouch without looking at it, goes across the street, retrieves her grandkids, and then goes back to her condominium. Shortly thereafter — I think a few minutes after arriving back at her condo — she calls Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And when you say she retrieves her grandkids, are those Mr. Markel's two sons?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so she was retrieving them from where?
PATRICK SANFORD: From school, which is directly across the street from her condominium.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And then returned to her condominium and talked to Mr. Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When she talked to Charlie Adelson — we watched the video, as I mentioned, and we see where the undercover says the name Katie: "You're taking care of Katie and Tuto," right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When Mrs. Adelson talks to Charlie Adelson, does she say the name Katie?
PATRICK SANFORD: Charlie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Okay. Who does Charlie call after he talks to his mother?
PATRICK SANFORD: He calls Katie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And at this time I want to publish call number D, if I could get some assistance with that.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I'm sorry — do you need a break? You need a break? All right, we'll take 15 minutes.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Either side need anything?
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor — it seems like the appropriate time to do it, in the event that the government can ask this witness for any opinions about any of these phone calls.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Do you have a standing objection, improper opinion?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You'll just have to object as to each. I'm not sure what that would apply to. I do intend to give the jury the instruction on transcripts I sent. The defense would seek that?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, Judge.
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Use the standard instruction.
JUDGE HANKINSON: We'll be in recess — 15 minutes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The date and time, and who it is that we're going to hear speaking.
PATRICK SANFORD: The date is 4/19 of 2016 at 4:27 p.m. in the afternoon. It's between Charlie and Katie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who is calling who?
PATRICK SANFORD: Mr. Adelson is calling Ms. Magbanua.
JUDGE HANKINSON: You want to use transcripts at this point?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Let me give you an instruction.
JUDGE HANKINSON: You're about to hear some recorded conversations.
JUDGE HANKINSON: These recorded conversations are proper evidence and you may consider them just as any other evidence. You are also being furnished transcripts of the recorded conversations. The recordings are the evidence, and the transcripts are provided to you only as a guide to help you follow as you listen to the recordings. The transcripts are not evidence of what was actually said or who said it. If you notice any difference between what you hear on the recordings and what you read in the transcripts, you must rely on what you hear, not what you read. You may use the transcript.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, what's going on?
AUDIO RECORDING: I can't hear you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you have someplace you can talk to me?
AUDIO RECORDING: For what?
AUDIO RECORDING: Any place that you can talk to me. You can talk to me right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Just talk right now. Just talk. Okay, can you go somewhere that's not loud when I'm talking to you?
AUDIO RECORDING: I can't. It's just, like, loud, but I can't get out.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, I'm trying to walk outside to talk to you. I can't even fucking get outside.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Are you ready to talk?
AUDIO RECORDING: Mm-hmm. — back — in here. Listen to me, I'll be able to talk to you, okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Somebody she was really weird, going into detail, and, look, I don't — something like that so I don't even know what. Bumped into your mom. Like that? Well, they came up to her on the street after she dropped the kids off at school. I guess she brought them to school, I don't even know. But they must know her routine, they must know who she is. They called her by name.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: And that I need to be paid some money.
AUDIO RECORDING: But, like, did she see the person? Or was she, like — she should have walked off or something?
AUDIO RECORDING: That's what I said. I said, someone's going to try to blackmail you or something. Exactly. Or threaten you, like that.
AUDIO RECORDING: I said, you got to go face the police. Because she's like, I don't even know what this is about. I don't want to talk about it. I go, well, take a picture and send me what it is. She's like, I just want you to see.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to go there. I can't even fucking go there today because I won't get out of work until 10 o'clock at night.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. So she's like, just come down to your mom. So can we just — stalking your mom?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't even fucking know. I don't know what's going on, what my mom's involved. You didn't do anything with my mom.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, just checking. Just checking. I don't know what you can do. No, but it's just for your mom. Like, what the hell? I don't know. Just a random person just going up to your mom like, hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, and my mom said it involved your ex-girlfriend. So I don't even think she said who. I'm just like, you're my last girlfriend, so that's why.
AUDIO RECORDING: I had no idea. So anyway, I'm gonna find out what — I wanted money. Did she tell you, like, what? No, no, she was just off.
AUDIO RECORDING: Tomorrow. So she's like, come down.
AUDIO RECORDING: Tomorrow, talk to her. If they're mentioning you or any reference to you, I'll keep you posted. Well, I don't know. Well, fuck, it could be anything, so I just assumed that. But anyway, doesn't it — I may want to see. Like, who the hell did she — I thought that was me. What did I promise I was going to look like? I know, I said, Mom, was the guy wearing a hat and glasses? Mom was like, no, I could pick the person out in a second. They came over to me, they spoke to me very politely, came up to her, and this is who she was.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you have any fight with him here right now?
AUDIO RECORDING: You should try to find out.
AUDIO RECORDING: I thought when I spoke to my mom she said they mentioned your name in it, that's why I was calling you, but I'm going to feel like an idiot if they did.
AUDIO RECORDING: Working tomorrow, what's your story?
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, yeah, but you think I would talk about your name? It doesn't matter.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right, what time you finish work? Thank you. All right, let me know what time you finish work tomorrow. Oh, it doesn't matter. Well, like, I thought I told them, like, I'm usually between, like, 9:30 — remember to get up. Okay. Um, anytime between 9:30 to like three-ish, four-ish, it depends. Okay. However it is. Like today I was like super, like, crazy. Okay, I gotta get back in there. I'm going to be in Miami, and when I'm done hanging out down there, I'm going to come and see you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I'm right there as well.
AUDIO RECORDING: So figure somewhere around 4, I'll see you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Have a good day. I'll talk to you later.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Mr. Adelson mentions on there that maybe he should just start calling all of his ex-girlfriends. Did he call any other ex-girlfriends?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did he call any other ex-girlfriends?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he did not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Did he or Donna Adelson call the police to report this incident that occurred with her on the street?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, they did not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: To whom is the next call, call E?
PATRICK SANFORD: Call E is Katie calls Charlie back.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At what time?
PATRICK SANFORD: At 6:07 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So about an hour and a half after the call we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And this is still on the same day that the bump occurred?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, permission to publish State's call number E and use the transcript.
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can I just have — do you want me to collect the transcripts as we go, Judge, or collect them at the end? Makes it a little — a little confused.
JUDGE HANKINSON: No, I'm going to collect them unless you want them there for cross for some purpose.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right, let's collect them.
JUDGE HANKINSON: While they're doing that, let me make a comment to the jury.
JUDGE HANKINSON: By and large, you will have with you during your deliberations evidence to review and consider more carefully.
JUDGE HANKINSON: You will not have what we call demonstrative aids, which would include transcripts. You won't have those during your deliberations. You may proceed.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, what's up? Hey, how's everything? Okay. Yeah, I mean, since I spoke to you, I'm just out there. You're working hard today? Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Oh, you're there so late? Yeah, we'll be out of here till fucking 10 o'clock tonight. Yeah, I just don't know. I'm scared. Like, your mom must be like freaking out and shit. Well, yeah. Somebody fucking — friend there, like, hello. Well, someone literally, like, walked up to her on the street in Southeast, called her by name and handed her something. She was so shaken up she didn't want to talk to me on the phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: Didn't she, like, tell your dad so, like, they can call the cops or something? No, that's why she wants to talk to me. And, you know, and then we may have to call, you know. I mean, probably threatening your mom in broad daylight, sending her an envelope, and asking her to give her money?
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, what the fuck?
AUDIO RECORDING: She didn't even know. I called her, details.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I'm pretty sure the person that was saying that to me — I thought she said your name. That's why I called you out. If the game that you're in came. What's your problem with me?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't talk, you know? But they said, like, if there was something about me and an ex-girlfriend, whatever.
AUDIO RECORDING: Are you having any problems with any of your ex-girlfriends? That's like me trying to cause a — 'cause you wouldn't go crazy to fucking ruin — but that's never changed. But I'm 99 sure when I was talking to her, she said — she said it mentioned your name.
AUDIO RECORDING: Then I feel like the biggest — but, like, what, like my name is on a paper?
AUDIO RECORDING: See what it says. All this. She's like, how would they know your mom's name? Like, that's weird. Knew her name and knew who she was and walked right up to her. So the person wasn't threatening. I was like, what the fuck is this about? So she just, like — like the person just started demanding things from her?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, she didn't go into that many details. She just kind of told me that.
AUDIO RECORDING: I thought she'd mentioned your name, but again, I made the mistake. And so I go talk to her and see what they wrote. And then the kids were in the background. They were making noise.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I'm like, all right, I'm coming down tomorrow. You want to talk to me?
AUDIO RECORDING: What's that?
AUDIO RECORDING: You want to talk to me?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no, no. I'm going to go down. I said, the kids were in her background.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm like, no, it was another girl's name and not your name. I'm just feeling like an idiot.
AUDIO RECORDING: But for some reason, I thought... Yeah, like, I have no problem with you.
AUDIO RECORDING: And that's what I'm saying.
AUDIO RECORDING: Maybe you have a crazy ex-girlfriend that's like... Who goes to someone's parents?
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, dude, if someone has a problem with me, that's the only thing that come from me to me.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, but like, that's harassment to your mom. Like, okay, that's like not cool. Like, that's somebody like — that's a — the person who's like, who the fuck are you? Why are you giving me this piece of paper? Yeah. Like, like I said, well, I wish I knew more, but the kids were in the background. It was like she couldn't even talk to me. And I said, I'm coming down tomorrow. Like... You shouldn't let something like that linger. Like, is she going to be in a safe place? But I have a very safe building. I mean, the person came up with her on the street.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know, but you don't know how crazy it is. Like, there's fucking crazy people out there.
AUDIO RECORDING: And you gotta realize, it's south of Phipps. It's not like you're in the fucking — I mean, south of Phipps is on lockdown. There's cops on every other street in south of Phipps. There's cops that they just keep south.
AUDIO RECORDING: That somebody would just, nowhere to be.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's why I'm afraid. Like, hello? Like, how can it be that, like, things like that is stuff that you see on the TV. Like, that's why I'm scared. As I'm like calling you back, because it's like — well, that's how I know. Yeah, you have a safe place. Yeah, I know, but if someone wants to find you, they find you. It doesn't matter. What, you're the President of the United States? If they want you, they get you. I know, but why would they threaten your mom? I don't — I don't know what exactly they're threatening. I think it's just more of a demand, is... I don't — I thought my mom said the letter had mentioned your name. But this is a weird — this is a weird thing that keeps running through my head. If it mentions your name, and obviously you're my — I find... me and talk to me. I'm easy to find. I deal with my mom. It's about one of my exes? Like, I don't even know why she fits into anywhere in all this. It's the whole thing — the whole thing is very, very... Yeah, I don't think she's gonna talk about me, right? I'm like, you're a hundred, a hundred exes. Yeah, you're — you got out of probably every Katie in the world.
AUDIO RECORDING: Look, and like I said, I haven't seen a letter that didn't mention your name or mention some other chick's name.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, what the fuck? I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't want a random person coming up to me.
AUDIO RECORDING: And baby mommas. Exactly. And baby mommas. You know?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, but it's like, for somebody to come up to your mom and say that in broad daylight, that's scary.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Any time some stranger does that, that's scary.
AUDIO RECORDING: And hand you an envelope. So where am I signing?
AUDIO RECORDING: I was going to take those bonus sequestration.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's what it was, right?
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, you should try to go ahead.
AUDIO RECORDING: You should try to talk to your mom and make sure that she's okay. I mean, not talk to her, but just hear her tonight.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's hard to get her on the phone because she's a kid. That's why I'd rather just talk to her in person.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I'm going to say, like, you should try to talk to her tonight. Like, I don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: Sometimes it's hard to talk on the phone with just the kids.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't even know if she wants to say anything to my dad, because she doesn't want to talk to me.
AUDIO RECORDING: If she wants to ask me if I know of anything, or if it did mention your name, I'll let you know. If it didn't mention your name, then I'll try to find out which one of my other 87 exes.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't think I have anything to do with you. I have a very good relationship with you.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's kind of bad. I just don't want to... I'll keep you in the loop. If you're in the loop, you're in the loop. If you're not in the loop, you're not in the loop.
AUDIO RECORDING: So if it mentions your name, when I see it, I'll tell you. Please start calling every ex you have. Just call every ex you have, because... I'm going to be on the phone for like three days. Listen, if it mentions your name, I'll come see you tomorrow and show you what it says. If it doesn't, at least it's not the IRS.
AUDIO RECORDING: Is it because I work for you? There are a lot of fucking whack jobs out there.
AUDIO RECORDING: Let me call you back if it's still at the office, but I'll definitely, after I see what it is, if it has anything to do with you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do it with me. Like, oh my God, you're scaring me. Like, what the fuck? I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: The police would come knock on my door, I'd talk to them and help them out with whatever they could.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's just a fucking lunatic, and they deal with lunatics different ways.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm supposed to get, like, employee of the month. What the fuck did I do wrong?
AUDIO RECORDING: Stop it. Just make sure you call those patients that they gave you the list from the other day. I gotta go, okay? I did.
AUDIO RECORDING: I owe you two. Thank you.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May we approach?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, I'd like to move on to Call F.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What is the date and time of Call F?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4-20 of 2016 at 10:38 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so this is the next day?
PATRICK SANFORD: It is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who is calling whom?
PATRICK SANFORD: Charlie is calling Katie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Now use the transcripts for Call F.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hola, ¿cómo estás?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hola, bien, bien.
AUDIO RECORDING: ¿Qué te pasa? Ay, Dios mío.
AUDIO RECORDING: Garmin. Paz Azul. Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Call me Moises here. It's Paz Azul.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's Paz Azul. All right. I'm driving down to Miami at like 12.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to hang out a little bit and then I think I'll give you a shout and we'll grab a beer or something on the way back. For sure.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's right here. 20 miles. That's all. There's a lot of things around here.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I got the food over there.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I'm thinking I'll probably be heading back maybe 2:30, 3-ish.
AUDIO RECORDING: What's your availability?
AUDIO RECORDING: Like at what time can you not hang out after? I will be available whenever you need me.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. So I'm hoping to get out of there around 2:30 or 3.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. And if that's the case, I'll be heading up at that time.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, you never heard about anything about those, um, uh... Yeah, yeah, I've only called eight times, and I'll give you the number, too. It's okay, no worries.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to take care of it wherever you guys go. I just wanted that place, because I thought it would be the nicest.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, but that's just so weird that they haven't, like, even responded to it.
AUDIO RECORDING: This is the thing. It's the owner's cottage.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's not even available for rent.
AUDIO RECORDING: So, so what happens is the owner just keeps it. So when he has friends and his family, when he has guests, he just says, hey, stay at my car for free.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then because I've stayed there so long and I've wanted to go times and the whole place has been booked, they let me rent that. The nice thing about it is it's not like, it's like if you look on their website, they don't even, I don't even think they have here as five, it's just his.
AUDIO RECORDING: So when he's not using it, he'll rent it for like 380 a night, which if you could be there for a day and a half, it's a fucking awesome deal. Because everything else on the property is like 1200. Yeah, so... That's, that's why. I mean, I called up, but they didn't. There's one down the road.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I didn't hear you said no. Like, um, there's cold, I guess. Whatever. That's... Is that where, um, are you going down with a bunch of people or are you going down with him?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, well, it was, like, supposedly for that, and then if anything, like, he was going to go down, too, and I don't know, we're trying to figure it out, because... I mean, they've always, they've never not, they've never not come through, and they don't see it booked off, but they, they can't ever give it out without his permission. Now, the first time they reached out to him, he was in Colorado, then he was in New York, and now he didn't respond. So yesterday I can just check again this afternoon and just be like, hey, did you hear anything, and then just do it. They say I asked and they said it's not like bartender's bash or any crazy event going down there that we know. There's nothing going on. Just... yeah, so it's not going to be... Well, that's my point, coming up next weekend. Yeah, it's not going to be like you can't get anything else. So I mean, worst case scenario is it like, um, postcard in or something there, which is nice, too. Oh, that's where I stayed the last time.
AUDIO RECORDING: And that place is so nice, but it's expensive.
AUDIO RECORDING: But, I mean, you open up the door, and it's like, here again.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, that's all it is.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, the fan bar is spinning right off. It's one of the reasons. Awesome. Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Worst case scenario, get something there, and it's on me. Okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: So, let me get that done a little bit.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right, kiddo.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: In these calls, Charlie Adelson mentions he's planning to go see his mother, Donna Adelson, to get more information about the bump. Does that meeting occur?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When and where does that meeting occur?
PATRICK SANFORD: It occurs the next day, on 4/20, at Mrs. Adelson's condos, where he arrives at, but they end up going out behind the condo, along the walkway behind a restaurant on the water, basically.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so that's actually — if it's 4/20, that's actually — about what time did you say the meeting occurred?
PATRICK SANFORD: The meeting occurred around — I want to say it's around 11 o'clock. I can't remember exactly at the exact time. Maybe it was a little after 12.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, but it's the same day as the call that we just heard.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Which was at 10:38 a.m.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And what surveillance efforts were made to try to capture the conversation between Charlie Adelson and his mother at that meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, I took equipment out. I had a surveillance team with me, and we took two pieces — two separate pieces of equipment — with us on our persons, and tried to get as close as we could to them to record their conversation. But they sat off away by themselves at a table out by the water and tried to — it was obvious they didn't want anybody around them.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. I did. I took — couldn't, couldn't hear them on the audio. Yes.
PATRICK SANFORD: I do. I took that photo.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time I'd ask to introduce State's 58.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Be admitted.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you describe the demeanor of the two as they met?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, they were very cautious, looking around a lot.
PATRICK SANFORD: They were leaning in close to each other, talking very low, even whispering.
PATRICK SANFORD: You couldn't hear them at all.
PATRICK SANFORD: The way they were being very cautious about when people walked by them and things like that too.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, next I'd like to go to Call H.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Call H is on 4-20-16, the same day that they met.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It's at 3:14 p.m. This is after Mr. Adelson and Donna Adelson met. This call's from Charlie to Katie.
AUDIO RECORDING: Just keep going down until you see Optima.
AUDIO RECORDING: Keep going down until you see, like, Optima.
AUDIO RECORDING: You'll see it in the plaza.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Should I go into the plaza where CVS is?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, yeah. Turn in there.
AUDIO RECORDING: Go all the way down until you see, like, all the, like, what do you call it?
AUDIO RECORDING: All the buildings. All the stores.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. And you'll see one that's Optima.
AUDIO RECORDING: Turn into a real estate genius. What a hotline.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm looking at Smart Kids, Family Fresh, Juice Bar. Yes, right next to it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Next to Smart Kids?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no, no.
AUDIO RECORDING: The juice bar, keep going. Oh, I can get outside.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Nice.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I'll get outside and I'll park in front of the juice bar.
AUDIO RECORDING: In the juice bar?
AUDIO RECORDING: All right, come outside.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It sounds from this call like Mr. Adelson and Ms. Magbanua are going to have a meeting. Did that meeting occur?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When and where did that meeting occur?
PATRICK SANFORD: It occurred outside of her employment, which is Optima Realty. It occurred first in Mr. Adelson's vehicle.
PATRICK SANFORD: They met there first, and then they went into a restaurant called Dolce Vita.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was there a team of undercover operatives who attempted to intercept the conversation that occurred between Mr. Adelson and Ms. Magbanua inside Dolce Vita?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And have you had an opportunity to review that recording?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I have.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What can you tell the jury about the quality of the recording?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's very, very hard to hear. This is a small restaurant. There's a TV above where they're sitting. There's dishes banging, clanging. Very difficult to hear, especially at the beginning. As it goes on, you can hear it a little bit better as it goes on, but they're talking very low also inside the restaurant.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And if we could, I'd like to skip that meeting for a moment and we will come back to it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you just tell us — I guess we're still on 4/20 of '16, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And what was the approximate time frame of the meeting between Mr. Adelson and Ms. Magbanua at Dolce Vita?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was approximately 4 o'clock. I'm not sure the exact time off the top of my head.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and next I'd like to move on to call K between — Okay, so after the meeting at Dolce Vita, was there some contact between Charlie Adelson and his mother, Donna Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and following that, could you tell us about call K?
PATRICK SANFORD: Call K is on 4/21, the following day, at 8:17 a.m. And this is Ms.
PATRICK SANFORD: Magbanua calling Mr. Garcia. Attention to use the.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to tell you something right now and I'm going to make this very clear. I'm going to make something very clear because you're talking belligerent bullshit.
AUDIO RECORDING: Belligerent what? I'm going to make something very clear, okay? The whole night drinking and I'm drunk. You haven't spoken to me about anything, and now you're going to come at me. Why? Because you don't know how to apologize because you were wrong. This is the same thing that happened last time. Pressing matter that I have to attend to. Well, okay, you know what? I don't feel secure because you take care of everybody else. Where's my security? So when are you going to step up for me? When is that going to happen? Because I feel like everybody else gets the special attention, and then, Katie, you go figure it out. You go figure it out. You figure out the kids, you figure out — like, you figure out your party. So, Katie, you're doing this again. This is the same shit. I've been here. I've never felt — if that's what you need to do to make yourself happy, then I'm not going to hold you. What happened to you? Why do you have to go back through everything after everything we went through? Why does it have to go back to square one? Do you know how bad I feel? It's like, again, I feel like I'm going to have to do this. I swear to God. It's just like — it's like I should just go somewhere, because it's like you're basically do that over. You're putting me over. You're going to tell me I'm going to make a phone call. Are you making that today?
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't think — I don't think that the meanest thing is every year to get married. I'm pretty sure somebody will come by.
AUDIO RECORDING: Are you fucking kidding me?
AUDIO RECORDING: Listen, I just want you to fucking have her like you have her. If you want to fucking do what you want to do, do it.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to take care of this fucking problem.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do anything with me. You're not even listening.
AUDIO RECORDING: The less you know, the better off I am. Man, just stop talking on the phone, man. Bye. That's why — you can't even do anything.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Who did you say the voices were on that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: That was Katherine Magbanua and Sigfredo Garcia.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, move to strike and improper opinion.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And have those voices been authenticated? Who authenticated those voices?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Personal knowledge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you have an exhibit in front of you where those voices were authenticated by someone?
PATRICK SANFORD: By Mr. Rivera.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Next I'd like to play call L. What can you tell us about call L?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/21 of '16 at 8:36 a.m., and this is from Ms. Magbanua calling Mr. Garcia again.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes. I don't remember if it was — if I think — I think just in case, I think, like, you have to pay for it because of the balance of $65.70.
AUDIO RECORDING: You can't pay for it?
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, I think — you remember, like, I wrote it down, the amount that you're supposed to put?
AUDIO RECORDING: You can't pay for it? But I'm not sure if it's $60.57 or $65.70.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm trying to get a secured credit card.
AUDIO RECORDING: Is there any way you could pay for it?
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm just telling you, I don't remember if it's either one of those numbers.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, you're picking them up today, so you'll find out when you get there.
AUDIO RECORDING: The amount that I gave you on a piece of paper, I don't know if it's $60.57 or $65.70.
AUDIO RECORDING: Got it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay? So there's no credit cards that I can use in his school.
AUDIO RECORDING: So it makes no sense. You got it?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What were the last four digits of the undercover operative's phone number?
PATRICK SANFORD: 6570.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Go to Call O. What can you tell us about Call O?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/25 of '16 at 7:04 p.m. This is Charlie Adelson calling Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So this is about four days after the call that we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, let me ask you, before we publish this call: has anyone up to this point called the undercover number?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, they have not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Has anyone up to this point called to report the matter to the police?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, they have not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, let's publish O, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Hey, you on your way?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, cool.
AUDIO RECORDING: At the Icon, which is — when you come over 395, it's right there. And, you know, actually the Icon building is right — Yeah, when you come over, just — Talking to my parents. Just talking to my parents about my day. I'm standing — I'm standing up talking to my parents about— Start heading this way and I'll get my car. Sometimes — I don't call.
PATRICK SANFORD: P is on 4/25 of '16 at 7:33 p.m., and it's from Ms. Magbanua to Mr. Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish P, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, like — like, walk in the portal. I don't know, where are you right now? I parked in the visitors. I don't even know if that's like one part of Monty's. Um, no, like I went all the way down, like there's like a group of, like, um — Uh, I think they passed me a little while ago.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, do you see them walking? Is someone wearing a red shirt?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Wait, by the marina?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes. I'm standing by the boats in green scrubs.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, I see you. I see behind you. Okay. Are you behind me?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't see you. I'm going to turn around with my parking, like I want in the parking garage.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, I see.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Was this call succeeded by a meeting between Katherine Magbanua and Charlie Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was that meeting something that was able to be surveilled at all by law enforcement?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it wasn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Why not?
PATRICK SANFORD: Because they were — obviously, we couldn't catch all their conversations. They were talking about WhatsApp, and then all of a sudden they just met without us knowing that they were meeting until the last minute.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What's WhatsApp?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's an app that you can have on your phone that you can talk in the end with encryption.
PATRICK SANFORD: It doesn't go through typical phone methods that were being captured by our Title III. It goes through the internet and encryption, and we can't capture it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So you weren't privy to any communications between them, to the extent there were any, through the WhatsApp application?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And you were not able to get surveillance teams set up in time to record this meeting or attempt to record it?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, let's go to Call Q. When is Call Q?
PATRICK SANFORD: Call Q is 4/26 of '16 at 9:48 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And from who to whom?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's Mr. Garcia to Ms. Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Just publish it to your claims.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: What's going on?
AUDIO RECORDING: I just need to talk to you about something.
AUDIO RECORDING: Did you learn that you can't make sure when you have something for your children?
AUDIO RECORDING: Of course. Don't worry about them, they're fine. You got money, you got everything you need for your children.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I just need to talk to you, though.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know what you need to talk to me about.
AUDIO RECORDING: What does that mean?
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, um, your son's asking about you. So I'm gonna have to set up a conference call or something to you.
AUDIO RECORDING: The what?
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, um, your son's... Well, yeah, obviously, I have to call you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, you need to call me back.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right, well... Don't call me back.
AUDIO RECORDING: Come on, if anything, I'll drop them off to your mom or something like that.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, don't, don't, don't involve my mom in anything.
AUDIO RECORDING: You calling my mom? You calling my mom? My mom said that when you call her, she's...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and on our transcript, Call—
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. I apologize. Verification — we're trying to find this one. Which day is that on?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Could you repeat the date and time of Call Q?
PATRICK SANFORD: 4-26-16.
MR. DECOSTE: Thank you.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At 9:46 a.m.? Is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: 9:48 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. That's right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And on our transcript, it indicates that the male speaker is unidentified. Has that speaker since been identified?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he has.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: By Mr. Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he has.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: As who?
PATRICK SANFORD: Mr. Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Next, I'd like to move on to R, which is a text message, I believe. What can you tell us about that?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's a text message on 4-26-16 at 9:52 a.m., and it's from Ms. Magbanua to Mr. Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And when you're on a wire, are you able to see the text messages in real time as well?
PATRICK SANFORD: Text messages that go through the phone, that is correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, but not if they go through the WhatsApp.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That distinction you're making. Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So this one went through the phone, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what was the content of this text message? Tell us again who it's to and who it's from.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's from Ms. Magbanua to Mr. Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what's the content?
PATRICK SANFORD: The content says, "Need to talk to you about something else."
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And S — S is another text message on the same date, 4-26-16, at 9:58 a.m., about six minutes later, and this is from Mr. Garcia to Ms. Magbanua. And what's the content?
PATRICK SANFORD: It says, "Whatever is going on with you and your homie is your business. You guys W-I-T-K," which is like "work that shit out. Don't text me."
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Next, I want to ask you about a letter that was sent to the Adelson Institute. Are you familiar with this letter, a letter that was sent to the Adelsons?
PATRICK SANFORD: Uh, I believe so.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'll approach and show you what I'll mark — is it 121. Your State's 121?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was I wrong about where it was sent?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, I'm sorry. Where was that letter sent?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was sent to their condominium in Miami Beach.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Whose condominium on Miami Beach?
PATRICK SANFORD: Mr. Harvey Adelson and Ms. Donna Adelson's condominium.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and who sent the letter?
PATRICK SANFORD: I gave it to an agent to have him mail it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and what was the purpose of this letter?
PATRICK SANFORD: Um, it was to generate more conversation.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And is that a fair and accurate photograph of the letter that was sent to the Adelsons?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Judge, at this time I'd ask to move in evidence State's 121.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Yes, I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: "My phone is not ringing, so you don't care about Tato and what he did for you.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: He knows he is fucked, and soon so will you." Who's Tato?
PATRICK SANFORD: Tato is Luis Rivera.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Looks like next we have Call V, which I'm told we do not have a transcript for. I apologize for that, but if you'll tell us what you can about Call V.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4-26 of '16 at 4:33 p.m., and it's from Ms. Magbanua to Mr. Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Publish me.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, what's going on?
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, you know, I don't know what the fuck. Like, I, for some reason, I know you were, like, telling me something about for the client, but I, like, I got it mixed up with a number.
AUDIO RECORDING: And, like, and I'm calling both numbers, but nobody's picking up, so I need to figure out — because, or outside, I could set up, you know, with the realtor to show the property. Fuck, it sounds like a really good client if they're gonna rent the place. I actually have — I actually have the number at home. Okay, but it's high enough, like, I need it, like, that. Well, I can The thing is, like, I tried to, you know, remember it, and, like, I just couldn't. Like, I have — I've been calling so many people today. So it's like, I'm gonna be home in probably two hours, and I can get you the number then. Hopefully they haven't, like, looked at other properties yet.
AUDIO RECORDING: There's no — I know you can get the number to me before I get out of work.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, let me do this. Let me see if I can get the number. I got the number at home in my desk.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. But let me see if the number may be some other place, okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'd like to go to Call W.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you tell us about W?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4-26 at 4:34 p.m., and it's a call from Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The transcript from—
PATRICK SANFORD: Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: To whom?
PATRICK SANFORD: To Donna Adelson.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: Charlie. Hey. Yeah, I can hear you fine. Okay, do you remember the number that was written on that paper the other day? Because I had it at home, um, I jumped — okay, because someone just called me asking for it, because they thought they remembered it, but evidently they remembered it wrong, so I'm gonna have to get it. Okay, I got the paper at my house, so don't worry about it, but you didn't write the number down anywhere?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I gave you the paper, and that was the end of it. I know, but I thought you made me write the number down. I did.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right, just start calling me now for the number, and I have the paperwork at my house.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. All right, I'll get it done with you at house.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. You got it. Bye.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: We'll go to Call X.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you tell us about Call X?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4-26 of '16 at 4:35 p.m., and it's from Charlie Adelson to Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So is this call immediately after the one we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I just called. They don't have the number either.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's at home, and I'm not going to be able to give it to you until I get home.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's always such a mission to, like, set up like no quickie. Try to get the agent to show you. That's why.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's why I was like, take it, write the number down. I know, but it's like I'm so good at, like, memorizing shit, you know? Like, I do this all day.
AUDIO RECORDING: I have like a thousand numbers on my phone now, and then now when somebody calls me back I don't remember who it is, because I'm going to have to see every person's number.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, I don't have a landline in my job. I have to use my cell phone. That's why you've got to put it in your contact list. You don't lose your contact.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I can't do that. There's going to be random people calling my phone. There's some clients that don't even want to, like — one day they want to pay property, another day, oh no, it's okay, because they're worried about somebody else. Yep.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm in Miami Lakes right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm not going to — let me see what time I get out of here. Hang on a second.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, the new camera, remember?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, come on. By age, I'm lucky I remember what I had for breakfast.
AUDIO RECORDING: And the only reason I remember was because they just ate the same thing I did.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hang on a second.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, do you know what time my last patient is?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, we're not done. Dead on cover? Mm-hmm.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm done?
AUDIO RECORDING: Mm-hmm.
AUDIO RECORDING: What is it, someone's calling me?
AUDIO RECORDING: Wait, that guy that came from the other office?
AUDIO RECORDING: So I'm all done. Okay, beautiful. Thank you.
AUDIO RECORDING: You can get out of here before traffic hits. All right. Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I can get the number in 30 minutes.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, thank you.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Call Y, please.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you tell us about Call Y, Agent Sanford?
PATRICK SANFORD: Call Y is on 4-26 of 2016 at 5:35 p.m., and it's from Mr. Garcia to Ms. Magbanua.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: How are you doing?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, I think I remember one of the listings that I had to tell you, one of the properties.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know, just in case that you call, you know, because I have to set it up. Yeah, but I tried to meet some listings, and each time.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, it's — I believe it's 305.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: 712.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: 657.
AUDIO RECORDING: 6570?
AUDIO RECORDING: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: Because I also had like two numbers. I know, you got that deflected. I get it, I get it. So the listing for the place is?
AUDIO RECORDING: Is it 305-712 or 6570?
AUDIO RECORDING: 5570. No, no, no.
AUDIO RECORDING: See, you're confusing me. It's at 305 712 6570.
AUDIO RECORDING: I think that was one of the ones that I tried.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, I'll, I'll, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll,
PATRICK SANFORD: — at 10:42 a.m., and this is from, uh — it's from Ms. Magbanua to, uh, Mr. Adelson.
AUDIO RECORDING: So she picks up the phone, she sounds — first of all, she sounds She's talking to me. What's that? She sounded like — hey, look, for a second she picks up the phone and goes, she's in the bathroom. Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: She wasn't flushed. Okay, so I'm fucking, like, Katie, call him. Then I'm like — That's it, you're going to go away and take a deep breath. I — I take a deep breath every day.
AUDIO RECORDING: I think Mom needs a vacation with Dad.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, people like you work.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's a long drive.
AUDIO RECORDING: How many patients did you have?
AUDIO RECORDING: How did I get into an office?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know. I don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: You what?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know. I'm the person with the plans.
AUDIO RECORDING: She's so annoying.
AUDIO RECORDING: They can always take care of everything.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hallelujah.
AUDIO RECORDING: And you find Jesus.
AUDIO RECORDING: Look, you find Jesus, and when you find him, you tell him to take care of you.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm looking for him. I found him today in the bedroom. He was hasty.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm in third-favorite jail.
AUDIO RECORDING: This? Jesus. And then it's Drake.
AUDIO RECORDING: Drake? And then it's you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Mirror number three. It's a good thing it's GI.
AUDIO RECORDING: GI, um, probably he knows how much I'm in love with him. I know, I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, he had the baby already. He has a reality show now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Are you serious?
AUDIO RECORDING: He's been at that show for years.
AUDIO RECORDING: What's wrong with you?
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't like to watch BET at all? Does anyone have BET shows?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know, man. You need to watch something.
AUDIO RECORDING: Jesus.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, Lemonade.
AUDIO RECORDING: Google it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Beyoncé, Lemonade. Google now. Yeah, I saw it.
AUDIO RECORDING: You got hot dogs in your bag?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no, like, people just don't understand.
AUDIO RECORDING: Next
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'd like to go to AA.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Looks like AA is about two hours after the call we just heard.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Tell us the details on AA.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's a 4-27-16 at 12:25 p.m. This is from Donna Adelson to Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who authenticated Mrs. Adelson's voice on these calls?
PATRICK SANFORD: That was Wendi Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Publish AA, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: At the end of the mail, yes, if he doesn't want it.
AUDIO RECORDING: He doesn't want it? Nope.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. All right. But thank you for the offer. That was very sweet. I think he just doesn't feel like going.
AUDIO RECORDING: Is he still upset about everything?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, he's not having the best day.
AUDIO RECORDING: Did something else happen?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, you know, just doesn't stand, and maybe another time. Just not right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Thank you. Thank you, excuse me. Well, everything else is being taken care of.
AUDIO RECORDING: Great.
AUDIO RECORDING: Just so you know, they actually called the person.
AUDIO RECORDING: Nobody picked up.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, they wouldn't have to.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, it doesn't matter.
AUDIO RECORDING: Nothing, so it's voicemail.
AUDIO RECORDING: But no one picked up. They tried a couple of times.
AUDIO RECORDING: I would not. I'd worry about other things.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's — you've got to find something new to worry about. No, I don't want them to believe me. I don't want them to believe me. No, no, I do not have to worry. Don't even say that to me. You have to find something to do to worry about. Yeah, thank you. I know you can do it with your free time.
AUDIO RECORDING: All my free time.
AUDIO RECORDING: You never — let me just tell you something.
AUDIO RECORDING: You never let yourself have free time.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, that's not true.
AUDIO RECORDING: You will always be like, oh, I've got to do this, oh, and then I've got to do that, yeah, and then I have to be hiding on this. And I've got laundry, and I've got laundry to do, and then I've got to go to Publix.
AUDIO RECORDING: Actually, I had to run out this morning because it was Administrative Professionals Day, which I didn't realize until the last minute, and I had to go run out and buy a cake for Erika, so.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then I got a big, big chalazion on my eye last night, and so I had to run to CVS this morning to go get drops and eye medication and stuff. I mean, you always — I mean, I'm telling you. I'm trying, I'm really trying not to, Charlie, just so you know, I'm really trying not to. But I'm just saying, like, you know, I mean, you're like asking me how many times we went down to the hot tub since we moved in here. Like, that's your fault.
AUDIO RECORDING: No one else is.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know, I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, I'm just saying, like, you know, you've got to find something else.
AUDIO RECORDING: We just have to enjoy every day.
AUDIO RECORDING: Trust me when I tell you, Mom, it is nothing wrong.
AUDIO RECORDING: And it's because of that — you have nothing, literally nothing to worry about. Someone's fishing, and someone wants to try to make some money because they're struggling, but that will never amount — that will never amount to anything. So sometimes throw something, you know, throw a fishing line out there and say, how you doing? Throw a fishing line out there and see if they can catch something. And that's right, and I understand why they're doing it. I understand what they're trying to do, and the funny thing is they really don't. They're just fishing. That's all that's going on. I'm sure. Yeah, I got you. You know what I mean? Like, you say, you know, you know, you know I do. It's like, I wouldn't — you know, listen, the person that came to me was just relaying a message, and then some dumb idiot wants to go ahead and they want to follow, and the truth is, is that the number was called. They didn't pick up.
AUDIO RECORDING: 786 — they can, maybe they murdered one down wrong, and the 786, not 305, and that one went and threw up the voices.
AUDIO RECORDING: So it's not even — so it's absolutely pointless. I mean, trust me when I tell you, it's not, you know, you happen to live in a very — you know, not only is it a very safe building, but it's a very safe area. I mean, it's not the area you want to ever do anything. I'm telling you right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I'm listening.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I mean, it's not — if you do anything in that area, anything.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes, I hear you, sir. You know, you're not that important.
AUDIO RECORDING: That would be great.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, I mean, you're just crazy. Yeah, both of you are. But I'm just saying, like, is that important?
AUDIO RECORDING: No.
AUDIO RECORDING: The amount of undercover — There's undercover police out there.
AUDIO RECORDING: I used to have radios, lots of corners everywhere.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know what I mean? Like, there's one second they're there and the next second they're not. You can't tell the difference.
AUDIO RECORDING: A person sits there with a radio in their ear and they talk to their officers all day.
AUDIO RECORDING: And that's what you have all over the place.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then you have cops just sitting there, walking around. I mean, that area south of 5th, nothing ever happens there.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you ever notice, like, you never hear of anything, you never see of anything?
AUDIO RECORDING: And the only way to get off of there is to go over a bridge.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's not, you know, it's not an area that you want to get away from for that reason. I mean, people, you know, they keep undercover cops all over the place for a reason. You know why? Certain areas — there's a ton of billionaires and rich people and famous people. They don't want anything happening down there. Now, other areas of Miami, they don't have that kind of police presence, but that's — you go to Overtown, they don't have that.
AUDIO RECORDING: In that area, I mean, it's not — it's not, it's a very, very difficult area to do, if you wanted to do something. It's a very difficult area, and you're not that important, and it's not like you're gonna — you know, it's not like — no one's gonna come after you there. And then if you think, like, the stupidity of thinking, oh well, they'll hurt one and then the other one will pay — like, it doesn't work like that. I mean, that's like — I mean, it's just, I just honestly have just had enough of everything. I mean, I feel bad that you want to worry yourself to the point you get sick, but that's — that's what you guys want to choose. Like, I would — I would be more upset, said, loses his eyeball because he's dumb. No, no, I'm just saying, like, I don't worry, because out of the blue, I don't really have to worry today.
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, I've had some issues that are concerning.
AUDIO RECORDING: I understand that. But they've been addressed.
AUDIO RECORDING: Things that aren't addressed is the fact that Ben doesn't listen to anybody, because he don't want to tell me. Nobody wants to lay the law down with him.
AUDIO RECORDING: But, no, I mean, I'm just telling you. That's — that's been worked on. That's been — I'm just — I'm just telling you. Out of, like, you know, it's like you gotta have better things. You just realize that the likelihood is so small. You have a better likelihood of aggravating yourself and getting — that's — I'm just telling you, and hear me out, you have a better — I hope I'm not — I'm not glad you're gonna give yourself a heart attack. But no, I hope — I hope. But I'm just — I'm just telling you, is you have a better chance of upsetting themselves and giving yourself a heart attack.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, she's here?
AUDIO RECORDING: She's here?
AUDIO RECORDING: She's all — she's getting the motor set up and everything there?
AUDIO RECORDING: Motor set up here?
AUDIO RECORDING: No. Yeah, they should do it with the third roll of traction and panties.
AUDIO RECORDING: I just walked in. She was over there. They'll bring the motor over.
AUDIO RECORDING: Or maybe they'll bring the patient over.
AUDIO RECORDING: Where are you working?
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh boy.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm just — I'm just telling you, Mom, you have a chance to stand and realize that you have a better chance of giving yourself a heart — Let me get to work, okay? I love you, too.
JUDGE HANKINSON: We need to take a break, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, whenever you're ready, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Just leave the transcripts there. They'll pick them up.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Have a good lunch break. Let's be back at 1 o'clock.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I do have a couple things, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. Whenever you're ready.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm ready to address the issue of the transcript that was prepared by this witness. And I also have a —
JUDGE HANKINSON: You said you were going to give me some — Anything else from anybody? We'll see y'all at one.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Martinez in there, which I know you've already looked at, but take a look at footnote five on Martinez. And then the case that's cited there is attached as well.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. One o'clock.
BAILIFF: All rise for the jury.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Everybody be seated, please.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Everybody be seated.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Agent Sanford, I think when we broke, we were about to play or talk about call BB.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What can you tell us about call BB?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was on 4-28-2016 at 9:42 a.m., and it's from Charlie Adelson to Donna.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
AUDIO RECORDING: Good morning, Charlie.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, how are you?
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Are you in an office or home, or where are you? No, no, I'm driving to an office now. What's up?
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, Erica called me this morning, and because Dad was on the road to the office, so Erica called me, and she said, she says, I wouldn't normally bother you with this. She says, I don't get a sales call a lot, but somebody called this morning, and he said his name was Sammy, and he gave me some very important papers last week, and he hasn't heard from you, and he wants you to call him back, and here's the number.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So Mrs. Adelson is heard on this call talking about a message from the undercover. Are you familiar with that message?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. We heard a conversation when we had the undercover agent on the stand where he called the Adelson Institute. Is that the call that Mrs. Adelson is referencing here?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So that call, the undercover calling Adelson Institute, did that occur between AA and BB?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Will you continue to publish? Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I, you know, wanted to verify the number was the same, was the correct number that I had, you know, told you that.
AUDIO RECORDING: Obviously, I'm not going to call the number. Erica said, you know, it's just going to be a sales call. Just hit star 67 before you call the number and then they won't know the number you're calling from. I said, oh, okay, I'll write that down. What's your suggestion?
AUDIO RECORDING: The odd thing is this, is that that's the same number you gave me, right? I don't know, because I gave you the number, I never kept it. You kept it. Tell me what the number was.
AUDIO RECORDING: 305-712-65.
AUDIO RECORDING: The odd thing is that it's 712-65-70. Yeah, that's the same number, and it was called and no one picked up.
AUDIO RECORDING: So someone called today?
AUDIO RECORDING: We called the office and Erica called me. She said, I hope I'm not bothering. It's probably a sales call. Yeah, let me tell you something.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm looking into it right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I think that you were, but I just wanted to verify the number. I know, and that's the odd thing, is you think the number would be picked up. I mean, so let me do this. Let me, let me call somebody who wouldn't want to trust you, and I thought I don't know if you know who it is, so let me call someone and take care of it now. Okay, thank you.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The next call is CC. Who's making that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: Um, that is, uh, Charlie Adelson to Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was that done on the same day as the call we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So a few minutes after that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, just a few minutes, correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'd like to publish CC at this time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can we ask you, Agent Sanford, while they're passing this out, between BB and CC, was there an unanswered call that was made?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I believe there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and was that from Charlie Adelson to Katherine Magbanua?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you know the time of the unanswered call?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is there something you could use to refresh your memory?
PATRICK SANFORD: So BB we had at 9:42 a.m., and that lasted about two and a half minutes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Right.
PATRICK SANFORD: It was definitely before the 9:42, 9:49 of course.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So sometime between 9:44 and 9:49?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, leading.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: We can publish CC.
AUDIO RECORDING: You have reached the voicemail box of 7-8-6-5-6-4-1-3-1-2.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Whose answering machine was that?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Or voicemail? Nobody has an answering machine.
PATRICK SANFORD: The voicemail was Mrs. Adelson's.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Mrs.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Adelson? I think you need to look at that again.
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry. C-C.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: C-C, sorry. 2-2-7-5.
PATRICK SANFORD: Sorry, looking at the wrong one. That was Charlie to Katherine Magbanua. That was her voicemail on her cell phone. Sorry.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, that's okay. And then, so after Mr. Adelson hangs up with Mrs. Donna Adelson in BB, we've got the unanswered call in between BB and CC, a voicemail on CC. What happens next?
PATRICK SANFORD: Mr. Adelson attempts to call Ms. Magbanua at least two more times and they go straight to voicemail.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And then what about DD at 10:43 a.m.?
PATRICK SANFORD: DD at 10:43 a.m. is Katie Magbanua calling Charlie Adelson back.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Let's publish DD first.
AUDIO RECORDING: What happened?
AUDIO RECORDING: Somebody called my dad's office.
AUDIO RECORDING: They were looking for him.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Saying that they wanted to get back to the person.
AUDIO RECORDING: What's the phone number that they're calling from, though? I can ask Erica, but Erica said a guy by the name of Sammy left a number on there.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, somebody's been fucking pulling your bones and shit.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, this is the third.
AUDIO RECORDING: Call the number.
AUDIO RECORDING: Call the number, because I'm about to call my fucking phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: He wants you to be called back. Let's put it that way.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you still have the number?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, well, obviously.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's a not working number. It's like an email number.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's like, get that number that's off of your, off of the thing, off of the number, off of the freaking caller ID.
AUDIO RECORDING: At the office?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes. Because this is like a fucking bullshit game.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, they're not coming out on foot, they're not writing letters, and they're not calling the office.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know what to tell you, because I called that number myself.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, well, let's call that number again to find out what the fuck's going on, and nobody picks up. And you can find another number and left a message. Okay, well, I'm trying to get whoever's threatening your family and helping you guys out and trying to help you guys out, but it's like, if they don't pick up, like, what? I understand. I understand that they fucking called this three times. Get the number, or whatever that is that's calling you, or your phone number, or whatever it is. 305-712-6570. Do you have the number? Exactly. That number is obviously, it's like a non-working number. Okay, can you find out?
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, and it's like, what else?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't fucking understand.
AUDIO RECORDING: If either somebody's pulling your phone, somebody is just harassing you, or somebody's trying to get something out of you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Find out who the fuck it is, because the other phone call is going to be the FBI.
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm telling you, and then when they do catch the person, they're going to be asking him lots of questions about who Katie is. We already spoke about this. It's not even like a fucking joke anymore.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's not a fucking joke, Katie. It's not. It's like somebody's harassing you guys, or somebody's harassing and using my name, and it's like, you think I like that?
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, so you want me to find out who the fuck it is?
AUDIO RECORDING: I come straight from my fucking cell phone, because it's fucking bullshit, and fucking somebody's trying to fucking pinpoint some bullshit. Like, it's getting aggravating. Yeah, it is. All I'm saying is, find out who the fuck it is and tell me.
AUDIO RECORDING: Shit myself, bro, because it's some fucking bullshit. I'm gonna hand it to my motherfucking self. Well, straight from my fucking number. If Erica wants to call back and be like, oh, is this the right number? Okay, I have your fucking whatever fucking shit taken care of. Okay? Because this is fucking bullshit.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's correct, bro. I'm with this shit already.
AUDIO RECORDING: Or fucking whatever it is. Because I'm fucking getting pissed.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right, we'll find out. All I'm saying is... Get the fucking number and the fucking card, because I'm gonna send a fucking text to me, and I ain't gonna fucking give a shit about all these fucking cold shit, whatever shit, anymore.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm pissed the fuck off.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, well, either you go to the cops or we go to the cops to find out... We're both gonna fucking go to the cops, because this is fucking bullshit. Well, find out who the fuck this is, because this person evidently knows you and knows your family.
AUDIO RECORDING: They know me and they know my family. And you don't think that fucking scared the shit out of me, like somebody fucking saying my name out loud or whatever? Well, Katie, if someone's messing with you, they're messing with me. If someone's messing with me, they're messing with you. It's messing with me. Exactly. So what I'm saying is, find out... You go to different offices, call them on the fucking number. See if the fucking number works.
AUDIO RECORDING: Bottom line.
AUDIO RECORDING: Because I'm trying my stuff, and that shit does not work. Hey, call them, find out who the fuck it is now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Trust me on this.
AUDIO RECORDING: Find out who the fuck it is.
AUDIO RECORDING: And get the number, and stop playing all of these games, because I already told you to go. I already told you to go. And fucking go.
AUDIO RECORDING: I gotta get back to it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm sorry, say it again?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's, uh, Charlie calling, uh, Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And is this the same day as the one we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's about, it's 11:17, so less than 30 minutes later.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's publish EE, please.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to start 6-7 and see what it is.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, do that.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, you haven't heard anything from any nonsense, have you?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I haven't.
AUDIO RECORDING: You haven't heard anything from any of this nonsense?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, obviously we're on the same page.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, let me do that and see where we are.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And does Mr. Adelson at this point dial the undercover number?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is this the first person to dial that number since it was handed to Mrs. Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: This is going to be called GG. Could you give us the date and time?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's 4-28-16 at 11:33 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And this is the call from Mr. Adelson to the undercover?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you remind us how long it's been since that number was initially handed to Mrs. Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: This was on the 28th, and the initial bump was on the 19th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I think we're ready to publish GG.
AUDIO RECORDING: Liga.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello, Liga, who is this?
AUDIO RECORDING: Who's this?
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm calling my family and trying to figure out who this is.
AUDIO RECORDING: In reference to what, ma'am?
AUDIO RECORDING: Someone by the name of Sandy called.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's me, ma'am.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right, what's going on?
AUDIO RECORDING: My brother Tato.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, my brother Tato has not been taken care of.
AUDIO RECORDING: His family has not been taken care of. I talked to a dentist. Why are you calling me? Who are you?
AUDIO RECORDING: I gave the number to a lady.
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't know Tato? No. I'm sure you know Katie and Tuto.
AUDIO RECORDING: They've been taken care of since the family problem been taken care of up north.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know who you are.
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't? Well, listen, I'm going away, my friend, because let me tell you something.
AUDIO RECORDING: I was at Broward with Tato, and he told me the whole story.
AUDIO RECORDING: He told me nobody was taking care of him, nobody was taking care of his family.
AUDIO RECORDING: The family was taking care of Katie and Tuto, and nothing's been taken care of without them.
AUDIO RECORDING: We know what's going on.
AUDIO RECORDING: And Tato needs to be taken care of. Do the right thing.
AUDIO RECORDING: The lady already has the paperwork. She knows what I'm talking about. We know Katie, we know Tuto, we know we've been taken care of.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right, let me look at the thing. No more fucking around, man, no more fucking around. This ain't going away. We need — Tato needs... You guys need to do the right thing for Tato.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's my brother, man.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's my brother, and he needs to be taken care of. His family needs to be taken care of just like Katie and Tuto have been taken care of.
AUDIO RECORDING: I've never met... met this people, but let me call you back, okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: That's bullshit, man. You know exactly what I'm talking about. You know this lady. I don't know your relationship with this lady, but we know what the fuck is going on.
AUDIO RECORDING: Go away.
AUDIO RECORDING: Take care... take care of Tato just like you take care of Katie and Tuto, man. Let me call you back, okay?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do we have some unanswered calls after the GG call that we just listened to?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Tell us about those, please.
PATRICK SANFORD: At 11:39, which is approximately just a couple minutes after that last call, Charlie Adelson attempts to call Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And she didn't answer?
PATRICK SANFORD: She did not answer. And then again at 11:40.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So immediately after the first unanswered call, he calls again?
PATRICK SANFORD: Exactly.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and then what? Let's go to HH.
PATRICK SANFORD: At 12:41 p.m., Katie returns the call to Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, so this is still 4/28/16?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Publishing HH.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, we're ready.
AUDIO RECORDING: Huh? You need two minutes.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh.
AUDIO RECORDING: Anyone want to step in?
AUDIO RECORDING: Mm-hmm. You're bleeding like 30 times.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then somebody picked up.
AUDIO RECORDING: And sounded like, you know, "Who is this?" And I said, "I'm returning a call." He's like, "What is this in reference to?"
AUDIO RECORDING: I then called my office this morning.
AUDIO RECORDING: Someone by the name of Simon placed a call this morning.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I go, "What's — I go, what's this about?" He's like, "Who are you?" I go, "That's not important. What do you need?" So I said, I said, "It's not important who I am." I said, "What can I do to help you out? What do you need?" He's like, he's — He's like, "Someone did a really big favor for you and was there for you, and we know you know." I'm — listen, "I'm Tuto's brother, and I was with him in Broward." So I don't know if this guy's in Broward or whatever. He's like, "I was with him down in Broward, and he hasn't been taken care of. His family hasn't been taken care of." He's like, "It's fucking bullshit."
AUDIO RECORDING: He's like, and he, you know, as he's letting him talk, as he's talking, I'm hearing a little bit of a New York, New York accent.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, as he's trying to, you know — when he picked up the phone, he didn't sound like a tough guy when he picked up the phone, but as he was talking to me, like, the tough guy routine sounded like it was coming out. So he's like, "Listen, I was with — I know you're, I know you guys took care of, and you're taking care of their family now. He needs to be taken — and he's done a big favor for you." And I go, "Sir —" because "I know you've been giving money to Katie and Tuto, and taking care of their family." I go, "No money's been given." I said, "I don't even know who these people are." He's like, "Who are you?" I'm like, "Listen, it's not important." Paying — paying anybody.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he's like, "Well, listen, man, this shit's not fucking going away."
AUDIO RECORDING: "You better fucking do the right thing." He's like, "It's not going away." Oh, is there anything — bad words?
AUDIO RECORDING: What's that?
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, is there anything — bad words? He may have said a bad word. He may have cursed. But he left it with me. He was like, "Listen, this shit," or whatever it is, "this shit's not going away."
AUDIO RECORDING: "And you need to help those — his family, whatever his name is, family out, the way you're helping out Katie and Tuto." And I go, "Nobody — I don't know who you're talking about." And he goes, you know, he goes — well, he says, "Do the right thing." Like — "Who are you?" Number one — well, he told me he's his brother. Obviously he's not going to give his real name. And I was being really polite to him, like, "I've got — hold on a second, you got — okay, give me two minutes and I'll be right there." I was being really quick. He said he's — he's a daughter from Broward? No, he says, "I know him from Broward," or "I saw him down in Broward." So I don't know if, like, this guy that they're talking about was incarcerated in Broward, whoever the guy — he referenced — referenced Katie and Tuto. So they're saying my name again? Yeah, so your name and some other guy's name I don't even know. Mm-hmm. You know? So he's saying, talking about Tuto, which I don't fucking know who that is — two people I don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: He's talking about your family, saying your family is being helped out, which I don't fucking know. I mean, other than the hours I give you to go up in the office on the weekend and take care of shit. Yeah, exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: But that's — I do, I can't help you out. You fucking earn the money on the weekend, but you go up.
AUDIO RECORDING: And this is the 305 number you called? The 305?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yup.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he left it where he said— And it rang a long time?
AUDIO RECORDING: I want to say it was like on the seventh or eighth ring that it picked up.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he left it with me. That's a long time, because he used to call phone calls.
AUDIO RECORDING: I was almost like — and he was asking me, "Who is this?" He goes, "Listen, I gave that paper to a lady," trying to figure — trying to find out what's going on.
AUDIO RECORDING: So this person is on the assumption that I'm helping. They said they're a friend in Broward, or is there a brother from Dallas? He said he was just — he said he was disguised, some — this guy who was evidently, told my mom, was incarcerated, his brother.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he's saying that he has not been paid and his family has not been taken care of, and this is not going away. And, like, just give charity out. Like, you come in my office, you work. You can't be, like, freaking people threatening you and mentioning names and, you know what I mean? He sounded — honestly, he didn't sound Latin, and he sounded like, you know, there's a little bit of a New York accent to his toughness.
AUDIO RECORDING: It didn't threaten me at all. It did not threaten me at all. He just let me know this is not going away, and he's like, "You need to take care of him and you did the right thing. He was there for you." And I'm like — I go, "I don't know," because I go, "I don't know who this person is." I said, "But," I said, "Let me call you back later."
AUDIO RECORDING: That's how I left it with him. I said — I said, "Sir, I don't know who this guy is you're even talking about, but let me give you a call back later, okay?"
AUDIO RECORDING: He's like, "Okay. Do the right thing."
AUDIO RECORDING: Which — "do the right thing, do the right thing." You know, sounds like a fucking cop fishing, that's — where it's investigated, or someone's playing games.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know fucking details, and I'd love to know these details.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know two of the people's names they're talking about, and you may be in the wrong key, and then I feel even more like a dumbass.
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly. Just one — a little quick recap, just because I don't want to say, you know — like, how did the conversation start?
AUDIO RECORDING: It rang, and he goes, "Who is it?" He goes, "Hello." I go, "Hi." He goes, "Who is this?"
AUDIO RECORDING: And I go, "I'm returning a phone call."
AUDIO RECORDING: And he goes, "What is this in reference to?"
AUDIO RECORDING: So I said— That's the exact word?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yep. He goes, "What is this in reference to?"
AUDIO RECORDING: "In reference to," wow. Those are some educated words. Yeah. No, he was well-spoken when my mom met him. He said, "What is this in reference to?"
AUDIO RECORDING: So I said, "I'm returning a call that Simon —" I'm returning the message that Simon had left this morning.
AUDIO RECORDING: That was the name, Simon? That was the name when he called up my office and spoke to Eric and said, "Listen, I gave a piece of paper last week with a number on it. Tell her they're calling, and this is Simon." Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: I said, "Okay."
AUDIO RECORDING: I said, "I'm returning the message from Simon." So then he knew that it was a reference to this fucking nonsense. So I said, you know what I told — you know, I go with you as well, I know that your family — the family, yeah, yeah, money. He kept referencing that, like we're giving all this money to a fucking family, like, and referencing there's two names or whatever.
AUDIO RECORDING: That yeah, I'm giving money to you and some other dude and your family. I don't know these people. Never met him.
AUDIO RECORDING: Is he a brother to this person that became an incarcerated?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes, he's saying he's his brother, of course.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he's from Broward?
AUDIO RECORDING: He said he referenced something that was with him in Broward.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I don't know if this guy incarcerated in Broward County, if he's from Broward. I don't know who these people are.
AUDIO RECORDING: But I don't want the referencing of your name and your family, and who — I don't know who to do it is that you're with, or if they're just making up names, or if I feel who should just go to the FBI and say, you know what, let's play phone tap. Exactly. So I don't, you know, I'm saying that I don't want to be like, while you're doing all the threats — number one, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. But he never said, he never said he was gonna hurt, and he was, you know. I just wanted him to keep talking, that's why I — yes, he got a feeling of who the person is.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, because he wasn't like, you know, he was wanting to know who I was. I was not important.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. But when he left, the majority was Douglas.
AUDIO RECORDING: Because I gave him money. He has not been paid. His family hasn't been paid.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do the right thing. Take care of him. He helped people out.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: Who? I don't know him.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know my family. Did he pull his teeth out or what? Like, what the fuck does that mean?
AUDIO RECORDING: It could be a lot of people. Could it be a patient?
AUDIO RECORDING: They take you to school, you run across so many people every day. Listen, in two seconds, you read something almost man-to-man.
AUDIO RECORDING: Where do you work?
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Because now they're calling me in. Now I was in a meeting. I talked out.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Let me find out who the fuck is referencing all of this. But I will call that number.
AUDIO RECORDING: They're picking it up.
AUDIO RECORDING: Whether you want to call it or if you have a friend that you can convince him to tell someone to like... 3 or 5, 7, 12, 55, 70, correct?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, 3 or 5, 7, 12, 55, 70.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. They need to know that I'm not... It's fucking stupid what they're doing.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I'm not paying anything that I need to pay to be able to get the guilt in there. Yeah, no, what the hell is that? The only thing I want to do is collect my reward from the FBI if I know. Of course, no. I want these people to go... I wanted people to go to Delft where they get freaking, like, threatened.
AUDIO RECORDING: Dude, you know what kind of vacation I could get with that money?
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly. I need vacation.
AUDIO RECORDING: Let me go.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'll talk to you later. Call me later.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: After HH, we go to II, which I believe is a text. What can you tell us about II?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was from Katherine Magbanua to Mr. Garcia on 4/28 at 12:57 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And how long after the conclusion of that call we just heard did Ms. Magbanua text Mr. Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: At the conclusion of the call — it was about an 11-minute call — so just a few minutes after.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what's the content of the text?
PATRICK SANFORD: It says, "Baby, call me when you can."
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does that call happen?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, let's go to JJ. What's JJ?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, Katie calls Garcia at 1:22 p.m. on the same date.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so she tells him to call her, but he doesn't. She ends up calling him first?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and this is about 20 minutes later, after the text?
PATRICK SANFORD: After the text, correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, I'd like to publish JJ.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: You busy? Yes.
AUDIO RECORDING: Or did you just walk off? Yes. Eating a sandwich? Oh my god, my freaking neck. Eating a sandwich again?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, a sandwich, sir. How much is a sandwich?
AUDIO RECORDING: Better than the mustard.
AUDIO RECORDING: Ah, ew, yuck.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, now my head is pounding.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I have, like, a migraine right now. I walked in and it's, like, a meeting outside.
AUDIO RECORDING: There's, like, a meeting outside. I guess they have meetings on Thursdays. And then I had my own meeting in the conference room.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, yeah, yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I have more information for you.
AUDIO RECORDING: And when I got a call this morning, like, I couldn't even take it because I had to step out of my meeting, because I just heard about it. And I was like — because I got a call back to back to back.
AUDIO RECORDING: So, hold on, give me one second. I want my blog to come out.
AUDIO RECORDING: I was gonna tell you. Okay, so this person contacted the office, hello, whatever. Supposedly he said his name is Simon. Okay, he contacts the office saying, oh, whatever, I had given a paper to this person. They're obviously somebody's doing their whatever they're doing. They're threatening, and like, they're very, very close to reporting it already.
AUDIO RECORDING: Whatever it is, it's getting me pissed because my name's involved.
AUDIO RECORDING: And, um, it gets — this gets better.
AUDIO RECORDING: But I'm like, you know what, couple of people should just tell me everything on the phone right now because I don't have time. I'm fucking working. Like, what, what is it? Like, I want to handle this and I want to handle it right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: So, um, it's okay to call the office. I was like, look, I tried to contact that number, it's like not a working number. They're like — I was like, why don't you go ahead and start to decide it and go call that freaking number? And then whatever that person did, they go, okay, I'm returning a phone call. And then the person goes, who are you? And they're like, doesn't matter, I'm returning a phone call regarding something of a paper or whatever. And then they're like, okay, well, we know you've been helping them out.
AUDIO RECORDING: They said my name and your name, and I — huh?
AUDIO RECORDING: Is that KD at Google?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes. It's clearly our name, that you've been helping them out. And he's like, I don't even know what the fuck they're talking about, and I don't even know — I only, I don't even know if you're the right person to be talking about.
AUDIO RECORDING: For all I know, it could be another KD or whatever. And I was like, okay, what else do they say? They're like, oh well, they're a brother — they're a brother of, um, of this other person that's supposedly incarcerated, and they're brother of them, and they know him from, from, from Broward. I don't know if they were together in Broward and he got out or whatever the case was. And he's like, but this family needs help, do the right thing. Like, the fact is, like, we know for a fact that you're helping. I'm like, helping who out? You haven't helped — I worked for you before. Like, that's it.
AUDIO RECORDING: I was like, well, that's not helping me out. That's me working for you. And I was like, I don't know what they're talking about.
AUDIO RECORDING: So, but they said, do the right thing. His name is supposedly Simon.
AUDIO RECORDING: They're a brother of the person that's incarcerated, and they said that name.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I was like, no, this needs to stop. Like, this needs to stop, because somebody's harassing me, somebody's harassing your family, and they're putting my name and then Arlene and that other person's name.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's getting too detailed. It's somebody that he knows for sure.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: For sure.
AUDIO RECORDING: He said that the person had, like — he's just trying to get them to talk more.
AUDIO RECORDING: He's like, the person has, like, kind of maybe a New York accent.
AUDIO RECORDING: He, some of the words was a little bit, you know, like — he wasn't threatening at all. He was just saying, you need — it's time for you to help out this person and their family, because he needs it, because we know that he, or something else... So what person and what family? What person and what family?
AUDIO RECORDING: Dado and his family, because they need it.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then before the end, he goes, I don't know what the hell you're talking about.
AUDIO RECORDING: And if the person goes, well, do the right thing.
AUDIO RECORDING: Did you tell him, well, listen, if you guys keep harassing me, we're going to call cops?
AUDIO RECORDING: That's what I said. I was like, why didn't you just say that?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, the person said this is not going to end.
AUDIO RECORDING: And do the right thing.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right, did he get information where he wanted me to leave him?
AUDIO RECORDING: Get the phone number. Get the phone number. The numbers that you keep giving me are the wrong numbers.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no, no, 305-712-6570. They picked up.
AUDIO RECORDING: Because I was getting tired of it. I don't know what's happening or whatever. 712-6570.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no, no, 305-712-712-6570.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's what I said. What the fuck this is, it needs to stop. If obviously you know somebody, they're putting my name, they're putting your name, they're putting — and they're harassing the family.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Are you going to order right now?
AUDIO RECORDING: 6-5-7-0.
AUDIO RECORDING: 7-12-6-5-7-0.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right.
PATRICK SANFORD: KK was on 4/28, same day, at 1:46 p.m. It's from Mr. Garcia to Ms.
PATRICK SANFORD: Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Garcia to Magbanua?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, sir.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Let's publish KK, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Fucking phone is in there. I'm just going to copy my phone in there and dump it while I go to La Pinga.
AUDIO RECORDING: Can I block it?
AUDIO RECORDING: No. I mean... Or block it?
AUDIO RECORDING: Don't do it from your office. It's your office. You know what I mean?
AUDIO RECORDING: Don't do it from your phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: No. I'm not talking from my office. I'm talking from my phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, but not bad. It's precisely fine.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. All right. You have somebody?
AUDIO RECORDING: You have a friend's phone?
AUDIO RECORDING: What? Not yours. A friend's.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Did anybody else call the undercover number after that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: After that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, later on they did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, but I'm looking for, I guess, immediately after. Looks like Garcia might be calling from a friend's phone. Did he do that?
MR. ZANGENEH: Objection, Judge. Calls for speculation. Leading.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I think the first question was, was there an undercover call?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did Mr. Garcia call the undercover from a friend's phone?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he didn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Let's go to LL, please.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you tell us about LL?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4-28-16, the same day, at 2:09 p.m. It's Mr. Garcia calling Ms. Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. All right, so this call, is this about 25 minutes after the one we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish LL, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yup.
AUDIO RECORDING: 305-712-6570. You sure that's the number, right?
AUDIO RECORDING: Take it one more time.
AUDIO RECORDING: 305.
AUDIO RECORDING: 712-6570.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yep.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right, so I'm talking Puerto Rican. I don't know how to call him again.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm gonna call him.
AUDIO RECORDING: Is, um, you remember that other one? Do you think it's that one?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's what the answering machine said?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Shut up.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's what they told you?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, that's what the answering machine says when you call.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's weird. That's odd. That's what's right. Very. Okay. Oh, when they go, you're not stupid. I have to use his number, or they pretend to be that stupid so that we can think of that. That's stupid. Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: New York.
AUDIO RECORDING: No.
AUDIO RECORDING: But I'm saying he said—
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Well, in LL, Mr. Garcia indicates he called the undercover number and got an answering machine. Did the undercover number have voicemail?
PATRICK SANFORD: It did. He did call the answering machine. He didn't speak to the undercover, though.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and was that before LL or after LL?
PATRICK SANFORD: That he got the answering machine? Yes. I believe it was before LL.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, tell us when he called.
PATRICK SANFORD: I had that incorrect in my notes.
PATRICK SANFORD: When he called the undercover number?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes.
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe it was before the answering machine call. He actually got the voicemail of the undercover.
PATRICK SANFORD: He did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and so that was just prior to LL?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, sorry, I had that out of order.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: But he did or did not leave a message?
PATRICK SANFORD: He did not leave a message.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay, and then can we go to MM to find it?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What can you tell us about MM?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4-28, the same day, at 4:58 p.m. This is Charlie Adelson calling Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so this is about three hours after the LL call that we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, we're ready for him now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello? Yeah, can you hear me?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hold on.
AUDIO RECORDING: Give me two seconds so I can just walk out. Thank you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. So where did I call the number, right?
AUDIO RECORDING: And the answering machine — there's something in the answering machine now.
AUDIO RECORDING: What the fuck? Up, like, some general guy, like, talking on the answering machine, and said, what is the name of the user?
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, I don't understand the joke. I don't get it.
AUDIO RECORDING: The machine, no one spoke to you?
AUDIO RECORDING: Uh, no.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, they didn't pick up.
AUDIO RECORDING: And, like, were they talking all the time? And then the answering machine, all of a sudden, I don't know, like, um, because I can't hardly remember that my friend had to sign up for me, you know. And it was like, they said — I don't know if they said their name was whatever that, or whatever they said on the answering machine. All of a sudden now, now it has an answering machine, like — A voicemail? I mean, what did the voicemail say? Like, I don't know, let me find out, because it's like — we talked about work and then I couldn't understand. When you call, do you call with the call block? Huh? Yeah, you call. Yeah. Yeah, but it doesn't matter, no matter what phone you're using. It's still — sure, you know, well, it shows — it doesn't show who's calling you. I know. You know how to block a call, right? Not have a point, but it starts to extend. So I did that. Brain seven times. I'll be there in one minute.
AUDIO RECORDING: Without Tylenol?
AUDIO RECORDING: Vicodin is acetaminophen. It's ibuprofen. It's not Tylenol.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I mean, you know, it's my fucking lady. Get the fuck out the way.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I would.
AUDIO RECORDING: I would do this. I would.
AUDIO RECORDING: I guess just call again later.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I'm going to check. You know what? With all this cranking, I'm going to call from every fucking body's phone and fucking leave a message in everybody's fucking phone, from everybody's phone. I'll play games. Or play games. We're just really talking about it, because maybe they picked up for you and they called. I mean, the only thought in my head is — so I've got one thing, maybe you could find out. Or I'm going to wait a couple days and then I may call the person back. So the person was — when the answer was going first, they weren't that ghetto, and as it started talking to me, they started talking more tough. But it was more of like a — I could hear a New York accent in there.
AUDIO RECORDING: And it sounds like a white guy. Yeah, no, no, no, the voicemail sign is New York. But I gotta find out what's going on. But I'm saying, I'm gonna call from somebody else's phone, because I don't want my phone, because, you know, I use this phone for work.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right. And the thing is... calling me, right? Listen, one thing is, it's either maybe that person will want to meet someone and talk to them about what their issue is, or I want to ask them — no, they're gonna have an issue, because you don't just go threatening people, throwing out names. They're saying that I'm helping a Katie — or not me, my family's helping a Katie and her family, and some other guy that's named, and began with a T, that I've never met. Any of these people — he goes, well, you've not, but the family has been, and they've been helping him out, her and her family.
AUDIO RECORDING: And this other one. You haven't met, but then they're like — it makes no sense to talk to me. But he's like, he asked me who I was, and I was like, none of your business.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I was almost — in hindsight, what I should have said was, who — 'cause I have a big — 'cause this is a big family and there's lots of cousins.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Who in my family — the Adelson family is a big family — so what I should have said to the guys, who in my family, who in the Adelson family owes somebody money? Give me the name.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, of course. Give me the name, and then I will go to that person in that family and say, who did you not pay?
AUDIO RECORDING: I want to know the name. I want to know the name. The only thing that keeps rolling out is that this Adelson family is helping out Katie and some guy named T and their family, and this guy needs your help, and it's not right, and it's like, this problem's not going away, because this is not going away. It's like, it's fucked up that you're not helping. Right there.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's fucked up that you're not helping — like, who the fuck are you? Like, who are you? Listen, it's like me calling someone up and being like, yeah, I know you told JFK you paid me. Okay, well, guess what?
AUDIO RECORDING: You didn't tell JFK. That is the wrong example. Like, what does that have to do with anything I'm getting?
AUDIO RECORDING: You always use that example that you're getting.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, because JFK died. The point is that I want to know who in my family owes somebody money.
AUDIO RECORDING: What's going on?
AUDIO RECORDING: That's the next conversation I have with this person — to be, if it comes to it, me saying, honey, if someone owes money, you gotta give me a name.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: Who am I saying? Where do you want to be? My mom. Mom doesn't know how to speak French.
AUDIO RECORDING: Whoever this fucking person is, trying to fucking say shit or do whatever it is to your family, trying to harass your family — like, it's getting me mad.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know. I don't know why they keep bringing up people who have different bests.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's why it's like, who are you? Number one, okay, you need something — who are you, then? What's your real name? What's your address?
AUDIO RECORDING: Who do you have a problem with?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, who in my family owes you money? And don't say the last name, because I'm gonna go to that person and tell them, you owe this person money — what is it about?
AUDIO RECORDING: And then I'm gonna tell them, go pay — who to go talk to. Not like, oh, somebody with the last name Adelson. Well, guess what? That's like saying someone with the last name — and calling your office and shit. Like, what is that? Yeah, someone with the last name Rodriguez. So it's like, well, give me the fucking first name. And I will go talk to — if it was my brother who was behind this, I'm gonna fucking find out.
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, fuck, if it was my brother, I'll turn him in and get the reward money.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I'm saying, like, give me the name of who owes your friend's family money. And this guy said to me, he said, listen, I was with him up in Broward. I knew everything that went on.
AUDIO RECORDING: I was out putting him in Broward. That's what I'm trying to understand. Yes, something about Broward. I was up with him in Broward. I don't know if he's a family member, but he said he's a family member.
AUDIO RECORDING: He said he was his brother. He said that guy is Kuko or whatever's brother.
AUDIO RECORDING: He said, I'm his brother. I was with him up in Broward when he told me what everything had happened. That's exactly what happened. Who was up with him in Broward with him? I don't know what he was doing.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know if he was fooling around with him, visiting the jail, I don't know if he was... Like, he needs to — he needs to, like, fucking — if, like, if people just can be fucking Googling shit or whatever it is and... Well, and that's — well, exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: The only reason I'm even bothering calling you is because if I'm the wrong person, then I've been feeling horrible.
AUDIO RECORDING: But if this person doesn't matter, like, you're still harassing my fucking family, and I want it to stop.
AUDIO RECORDING: someone face-to-face on the street, when you send them a letter, and then when you start calling their office, the next call is to the FBI.
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I agree. And my thing is this. I personally go there. I don't want anyone to go to jail, because you know what, people get mad when they go to jail and they feel like they have to get somebody back. Same reason when my jet ski got stolen — I did not, I don't even care who — fucking gave my money back, it's stuff that got stolen, move on. I wouldn't want to catch the guy who stole my jet ski. Why? It's grand theft. I don't want to put anyone in jail. Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: But you know what, if this person keeps saying — and they need to start giving information, they need to start saying something instead of anything. They need to tell me, they need to tell me who exposed the money. Psychic? Nobody's a psychic. Yeah, I mean, okay, the family's got lots of members. So, well, it could have been — it could have been a cousin of mine, it could have been my brother, Mani, and I will call that person. And what Mani? Like who? Like, you know, you could throw — I could throw in anybody, same, do that. Like, somebody calls my phone back, like I don't — I'm always like, hey, who's this?
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm just curious to see who's so interested in your family and what's going on. That's why — it's like, that's why you're pissing me off. It's like, why am I being thrown into something? If they weren't talking about you and some other guy whose name goes by T — it seems like everyone goes by T these days, but whatever the guy's other name is, he said it so quick I don't even remember.
AUDIO RECORDING: But if he wasn't talking about you, your name, and then some other guy's name, he gives it T. But you're just saying too much now.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't even know what the fuck you're saying. That's what — I'm repeating to you what the guy said.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know. That would be the first time. But that's the only reason. I know. It's becoming repetitive and, like, it just becomes nonsense.
AUDIO RECORDING: The only reason I called you is because this guy is bringing you guys up, which has nothing to do with it.
AUDIO RECORDING: He gets a candy, a freaking taco, a freaking cream, like, that's enough.
AUDIO RECORDING: I think I called the guy Simon or Sammy, or I don't really know what the fuck I called him.
AUDIO RECORDING: What the fuck is Simon? That is such a fucking white person's name.
AUDIO RECORDING: But then when I told my mom I called Simon, my mom goes, it was a sandbag of a lot. It began with an S.
AUDIO RECORDING: I thought everyone knew. Now it's Sammy.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, but then he responded.
AUDIO RECORDING: What is your last name? What is your address?
AUDIO RECORDING: So that I can send your mother a fucking letter. Or meet your mother in a freaking middle of the street.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's going to be the next call.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yep. Let's find him.
AUDIO RECORDING: What's his problem?
AUDIO RECORDING: Because he's about to have a big problem.
AUDIO RECORDING: He's going to have a fucking big-ass problem.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I'm like, oh my God, I am the fucking wrong person.
AUDIO RECORDING: God forgive him that he fucking said the wrong fucking name, because now it becomes my business.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'll pick a new name that expands a reference.
AUDIO RECORDING: I hate that shit.
AUDIO RECORDING: I've been waiting for you to pick up that package. I fucked bitches up for no reason.
AUDIO RECORDING: You never picked up the package, did you?
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, I'm fucking all the way over here.
AUDIO RECORDING: I got to get my kids. Because I got to see, I'm trying to figure out if I can go up later on.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Let me know, but I have a little task.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm still here. I thought I was going to be here in about an hour.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, but I mean, you're going to be home, right?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I'll be home. I should be home by 7.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, but you can leave me halfway. You can honestly talk about it a little bit. I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I forgot. And I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you stuff about work anyways. I have a lot of shit that I have to tell you about work.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I've been getting bad reviews on online studio work on it too, but let me.
AUDIO RECORDING: I've done nothing but get reviews. What are you talking about? I know, I know. Let me call you later.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I'll let the jury step out. Give me all 15 minutes, we'll stay in session with you.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Were you wanting to make a proffer on Mr. Sanford?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, Agent Sanford, I want to talk to you about the Dolce Vita recording.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you explain what it is that you did in reference to the recording that allowed you to produce the transcript that you did, as far as listening to it and doing it over and over?
PATRICK SANFORD: I spent weeks and weeks and months listening with noise-cancelling headphones and just playing it back over and over, trying to get the best audio to be able to, you know, make it as audible as possible for me to make out what was being said.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And do you have any specialized training or experience with the FBI to listen to inaudible recordings?
PATRICK SANFORD: Special training, no. I have training as a technically trained agent.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Technically trained agent?
PATRICK SANFORD: Where I do installs, things like that. I do handle technical equipment to be able to facilitate the recordings themselves, going out and deploying the equipment.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. How often have you done this process of listening to difficult or inaudible recordings to try to parse out what's being said, on other cases?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, dozens of times.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what equipment did you use when you were listening to this particular recording?
PATRICK SANFORD: A laptop.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Any specialized listening equipment? I think you mentioned headphones.
PATRICK SANFORD: I had noise-cancelling headphones and the software that went along with the equipment.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And what's that software?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's a — it's a proprietary software through the FBI.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes. And does the software enhance spoken words?
PATRICK SANFORD: Does it enhance spoken words? I don't know if I could describe it as enhancing.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So why don't you tell me what it does do?
PATRICK SANFORD: It basically does the same thing that some, like, Weather Channel people have, where it kind of minimizes other obstructive noises in the background. So, like, on the football field they use these special kinds of microphones and equipment to hear on the field and cancel out the crowd, basically. So, some of the same type of equipment.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And does the software that you were using to listen to this particular item, does it change anything about the words that are spoken on that?
PATRICK SANFORD: That does not change the words, no.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. But it does suppress some of the white noise or the environmental noise on the tape?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And can you estimate about how many times you listened to this thing to get the transcript?
PATRICK SANFORD: Probably well over a hundred.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what was the type of environment that you listened to the tape in?
PATRICK SANFORD: In my office, with the door shut, by myself.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is the transcript that you produced an accurate product of what you were able to hear once you listened repetitively in that environment with that equipment?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Improper bolstering.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: One moment, please.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Obviously, it's not practical for the jury to listen to this thing over 100 times, but is there a way for them to listen to it with the equipment that you were able to listen to it with?
PATRICK SANFORD: With the headphones, you mean?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And the proprietary software.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's possible. I'd have to figure that out if we were able to do that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How would we do that?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's a good question. I might have to get the equipment, and I don't know how they would get headphones hooked up.
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm not sure.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I thought we thoroughly explored this and determined that there was no way for them to simultaneously all listen to it.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay. Yeah. That's — I don't know the way.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right. Thank you. Nothing further.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Cross.
MR. ZANGENEH: Special Agent Sanford, you indicated that what you were trying to do is to take inaudible communication and make it audible. Is that in essence what you're trying to do?
PATRICK SANFORD: Trying to make out the words on the recording and trying to minimize the background noise is what I was trying to do — what's being said.
MR. ZANGENEH: So in essence, taking something that normally you can't hear and making it something that you're attempting to decipher what they're saying, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's a fair assessment, I guess.
MR. ZANGENEH: You've indicated that you've done this how many times before?
PATRICK SANFORD: Dozens.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you ever testified with regards to this type of altered testimony in state court before?
PATRICK SANFORD: Altered testimony?
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm sorry — with this type of testimony before, in state court?
PATRICK SANFORD: What type of testimony? I'm sorry.
MR. ZANGENEH: Where you take inaudible information and convert it with your own, in making a transcript on your own?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not with a transcript of my own, no.
MR. ZANGENEH: Are you aware of any peer review processes with regards to the methods and techniques that you use to change what was originally inaudible to now making a transcript of it?
PATRICK SANFORD: Say that again, I'm sorry.
MR. ZANGENEH: Are there any — okay, the methods that you use — are you aware of any peer review articles with regards to the specialized equipment that the FBI uses?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I'm not aware of any.
MR. ZANGENEH: To your knowledge, has this technology been compared to other technology?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not to my knowledge, not that I know of.
MR. ZANGENEH: When did you say this technology came out?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's been around a while, from my understanding.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. So when you say a while, does that mean like a month, a year, five years?
PATRICK SANFORD: I mean, the technology itself, or this particular system? The technology itself is the same thing that, like, weathermen use on the news and sporting events, things like that. That's the technology.
MR. ZANGENEH: So, like about a decade?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'd be guessing.
MR. ZANGENEH: So, let me just kind of give a summation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I was listening the first time, Mr. Zangeneh. I don't need a summation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Do you have anything new you want to cover with him?
MR. ZANGENEH: No, Judge. Thank you.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Mr. DeCoste?
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor.
MR. DECOSTE: I cared about the enhanced recording.
PATRICK SANFORD: Some of it I did.
MR. DECOSTE: Using proprietary software of the FBI.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You're not at liberty to be able to tell us about that proprietary software?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MR. DECOSTE: No. You're not able to tell us what algorithm it uses to be able to determine what words are what words.
PATRICK SANFORD: Algorithm that uses to do what? Repeat that.
MR. DECOSTE: I think that that answers our question — that you wouldn't be able to tell us about the software, right? And if we were to try to get a court order to have the FBI turn that over, it still would not be turned over, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: To my knowledge. Wouldn't be my call, though.
MR. DECOSTE: Because that's protected. That's owned and that's kept secret by the FBI.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's not kept secret. It is protected, though, yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Well, it's kept secret meaning that the only people that know about it work for the FBI, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know if that's true either.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. Was a person involved in the enhancement, along with the software?
PATRICK SANFORD: Along with the software? No.
MR. DECOSTE: Did somebody at the FBI sit down, work on it?
PATRICK SANFORD: After I gave them a copy of it, they sat down and worked on the copy of it, correct.
MR. DECOSTE: And you remember, at a deposition, we asked you if you could get us the name of that person. You remember that, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You never got us that name, though, did you?
PATRICK SANFORD: The name's in the report.
PATRICK SANFORD: I didn't personally talk to you about that, no, but the name's in the report.
MR. DECOSTE: You remember in the deposition this year, a couple months ago, I asked you if you could get that name to these prosecutors. You remember that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I do.
MR. DECOSTE: You're saying that you've given them that name?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's in the reports that I've provided over.
PATRICK SANFORD: Now, I can't recall if I actually called him with the actual name, but his report is in the information.
MR. DECOSTE: There's a 302 report?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's not a 302, it's a lab report.
MR. DECOSTE: And who is this that did this report?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall his name off the top of my head. He's a lab examiner.
MR. DECOSTE: So since our deposition, a lab examiner from the FBI did a report?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he did it before the deposition.
MR. DECOSTE: But since the deposition, you gave it to these prosecutors?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was on the original CD, I believe.
MR. DECOSTE: I asked because we don't have it. Okay. Do you know what methods this — and I say "unknown person" because it's unknown to me — what methods this unknown person used to enhance the audio?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I don't.
MR. DECOSTE: I'll turn over to the next topic right now, and I'm going to quote from a footnote in a case. Are you professionally skilled in understanding inaudible and indistinguishable tape recordings?
PATRICK SANFORD: I've never been classified as that, no.
MR. DECOSTE: You're not professionally skilled to do that?
PATRICK SANFORD: In what light — my professional opinion, or some classification? I'm not sure what you're asking me.
MR. DECOSTE: I'll re-ask it. Are you professionally skilled in understanding inaudible tape recordings?
PATRICK SANFORD: Professionally skilled. In my opinion, yes.
MR. DECOSTE: What specialized training did you receive to become professionally skilled in understanding inaudible tape recordings?
PATRICK SANFORD: I haven't received any training in that exact area, but I've been working on it for over 20 years and done it many times.
MR. DECOSTE: And let's talk about that. We're going to jump topics; I'll come back to your training. You said that you've done this before, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Quote, "on some of my cases."
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: But those are your words — some of your cases, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: When did I say this? My deposition, or just a little while ago?
MR. DECOSTE: In your deposition.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you trust me that that's in your deposition?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
MR. DECOSTE: And that it's not your everyday job to do this, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's not.
MR. DECOSTE: But you've done it before?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Can you name for this court one case where your transcript has been admitted?
PATRICK SANFORD: I did not say my transcript was admitted.
MR. DECOSTE: I understand that, but that's what I'm asking you. Has there been a case where your transcript has been used?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not that I know of.
PATRICK SANFORD: Actually, I take that back — yes, I do. A prison case against a federal correctional officer where we made recordings on this correctional officer, and he had — I can go further into the case if you want — he had actually committed a fraud against somebody, and I did a transcript, and that was used in federal court. Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: In what kind of proceeding?
PATRICK SANFORD: Trial. A criminal trial, where he was convicted at trial.
MR. DECOSTE: All right, let's come back over to your training. You have no certifications that allow you to understand inaudible tape recordings?
MR. DECOSTE: Do you understand the question, what we're saying here? It's an inaudible tape recording, so that you would have skills to be able to go into the recording and extract out of it what was inaudible.
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm not familiar with that type of training. No, I've not been to that.
MR. DECOSTE: So you don't have anything like that?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MR. DECOSTE: What about indistinguishable tape recordings? Do you have any certifications that make you professionally skilled in understanding indistinguishable tape recordings?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MR. DECOSTE: So it's just a matter of, you've done it a bunch of times before, so therefore you're professionally skilled?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's a matter of the experience and hearing the phone calls, knowing the voices, knowing how they talk, and listening to it over and over and over and being able to distinguish some of what is being said.
MR. DECOSTE: One brief second.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Just like this jury has done here today — they listened to the phone calls.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: So you're no more skilled than they are themselves at comparing the phone calls that they've just heard to what would be in the Dolce Vita video?
PATRICK SANFORD: I disagree. I've listened to the phone calls many a time; they've listened to them once.
MR. DECOSTE: One brief second, Your Honor.
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you have a CV?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I don't.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you know what a CV is?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. Nothing further. Thank you.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Redirect?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, sir.
JUDGE HANKINSON: The Supreme Court in Martinez, and again in Davis v. State, which was a 2013 case, has outlined the procedures for the trial court to follow.
JUDGE HANKINSON: They've set out four steps. One, the court would determine from the recording whether the unintelligible portions make the tape unworthy or untrustworthy and therefore excluded altogether. I've made that analysis. I find there's enough audible information not to cause the tape to be untrustworthy. There are certainly some parts very difficult to understand; I don't find that makes it untrustworthy, so I'll allow the tape to be played. As to the transcripts, they set out three ways in which a transcript can be authenticated: by stipulation, which is obviously not the case here; or the trial court makes an independent pretrial determination after hearing from persons who can properly testify as to its accuracy, which would either be a participant or a real-time monitor of the recording with superior ability to hear. Obviously we have neither of those situations.
JUDGE HANKINSON: And they have left open, in footnote 5, that — as the State has pointed out — an expert witness with certain professional skill could authenticate: an expert witness professionally skilled in understanding inaudible and indistinguishable tape recordings could be qualified to make such a determination.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I don't find that Agent Sanford falls into that category. He's not an expert witness, so I'm not going to allow the transcript to be used. I am confident that if we played the tape and gave them a transcript, that at least halfway through the recording the jury would simply be reading the transcript — they would be unable to match the transcript with the tape. I made great effort to attempt to do so. I did it initially thinking that would be relatively simple; I was totally unable to. I went back this weekend with headsets and again tried to do it, and again was unable to do so. I'm not sure that what the Supreme Court has set out for us is a realistic approach. We don't have the ability to give jurors headsets as we in the past have been able to do in federal court, where they can hear it real well. I accept what Agent Sanford has said. I've done it myself — sat and listened for hours for transcripts, play it forward, play it back, listen again. I know that it can be done. But the Florida Supreme Court has not authorized that as a way to authenticate.
JUDGE HANKINSON: When you do that, I don't know how it can be used with the recording anyway, because what the jury is hearing is not really exactly what you would be hearing as the transcriber, because you're able to move it back and forth and listen very carefully. I don't know how that's to be done in the future, but I can say that at this point in time, the Florida Supreme Court has not authorized that. I did read the cases under footnote 5 of Martinez.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I would note that both those cases were reversals for failing to comply with this. I have not found any case where that was in a straightforward way upheld. I did find a First DCA case from 1983, 429
JUDGE HANKINSON: Southern 2d 45, where some portions of a transcript in dispute were used in cross-examination of a defendant, and they upheld it. In that case — in that case, the tape enhanced, and with the qualifications to make such an enhancement, but he wasn't in the transcript group — it was an agent. That's the only case where I thought has been a I'm not reversing my ruling. Take a restroom break, finish up with Agent Sanford.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Everybody be seated please. You may proceed Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Agent Sanford, we just concluded the MM call, and I think we'd like to talk about the NN text next. What can you tell us about the text?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was on 4-28 of '16 at 7:39 p.m. It was from Mr. Garcia to Ms. Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What is the content of that text?
PATRICK SANFORD: It says, "I called three times, no answer, and I did not leave a message."
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and then is there a call after that, O-O?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. That's call O-O. It's on 4-28 of 2016 at 7:49 p.m. This is from Ms. Magbanua to Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, this is about 10 minutes after the text message?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's publish O-O, please.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, what's going on?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: Number three times. The first time, like, message in Spanish.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then for some reason, like, that voicemail says "puto." You know what "puto" is, right? Like a bitch.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, "Oh, this is puto." Like, why would you have that as your voicemail?
AUDIO RECORDING: In Spanish, it says, "Oh, this is puto"? Puto. Puto. Puto. Puto. No, puto. Puto is — puto in my language is a type of food.
AUDIO RECORDING: But supposedly that voicemail that they have set up, the guy says "puto," what sounds like "puto."
AUDIO RECORDING: What does he say on the voicemail?
AUDIO RECORDING: Like it's something in Spanish.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, "You reach puto," and it's in Spanish. So he left a message in Spanish saying, what the fuck, this is — need to fucking call me and stop creating my fucking family, and then I'll just keep trying. Yeah, but they don't pick up now. Somebody's either spooked, because what the fuck is going on. Person's gonna — like, all their things are, like, running in my head, because it's like, what, the names you're saying? I'm like, maybe — maybe it's, like, somebody trying to, like, be, like, you know, try to be an informant or something or whatever.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, you know, there were so many things, like, going on.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm thinking the same thing, too.
AUDIO RECORDING: But then, like, yeah, but then, you know, there's people you can trust and people you can't.
AUDIO RECORDING: But then it's like, I don't know. I don't know. I honestly, like, it's, like, aggravating me.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hold on. I'm going to call my doctor. To me.
AUDIO RECORDING: If I'm on the phone, don't talk to me.
AUDIO RECORDING: Be quiet.
AUDIO RECORDING: Could've been someone reading the newspaper and playing games.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like I said.
AUDIO RECORDING: Playing with the wrong person.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, and I don't know how the fuck they got your name, but they didn't use a last name, so it's a — exactly, it could be anybody.
AUDIO RECORDING: It could have been another — another Katie and another Taco, or whoever the fuck they said. I don't remember the name, but the — the point is, is that they need to stop. Yeah, exactly. Well, like — I'm boiling this story now, like, you don't understand. Like, it's pissing me off. Like, pick up the phone. Like, now you don't want to look at the phone, you don't want to pick up the phone. Yeah, so it's one of two things. Yeah, no, I — I got you with that. And I just, you know, call it. Basically you said, hey, you're messing with my family, and if you don't stop, we're going to have a problem — in Spanish.
AUDIO RECORDING: So whoever it is, they're going to have a problem with us no matter what.
AUDIO RECORDING: They're going to have a problem with me.
AUDIO RECORDING: So what?
AUDIO RECORDING: They're going to have a problem with me, too.
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: They're going to have a problem with either one of us, or even if, like, if I'm in the mix or not.
AUDIO RECORDING: Dude, you're coming up to my fucking mom on the street, then you're sending letters to their house, then you're fucking calling my dad's office. Like, no, he was living — my friends, all my friends. And I was like, look, can you do me this favor? Because it's like, I'm not a guy, and I don't know if it's me they're talking about. And he's like, that's some fucked up shit. Yeah. It's like, don't worry, nothing. Like, no matter what, like, whatever it is, like — like, I'm gonna handle it, point blank.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, I definitely feel better. I apologize for not going and getting a Hallmark card, but I got a little something. So traffic's done.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's like right now I'm about to go to, like, freaking — like, I'm taking a Xanax now because I'm, like, I'm on edge. Like, you don't understand.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's like I wanna punch somebody in the face so bad.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you picture yourself — one thing is, like, when somebody — I understand it, and I feel for your parents. Come to me, don't come to my parents. Like, my parents are fucking old. Like, what are you doing, doing me stress? That's why, like, my son understood in that part. I was like, look, you gotta understand, like, imagine, like, somebody doing this to my mom, somebody doing this to your mom. And that's when he had gotten angry. He's like, look, I don't know what it is, I don't want to get into anybody's business, you know, but if they did mention your name, I don't like that. It's gonna be handled.
AUDIO RECORDING: And the fact that nobody's picking up their phone now, it's, like, frustrating me.
AUDIO RECORDING: There was no voicemail before, now there is.
AUDIO RECORDING: Now there is.
AUDIO RECORDING: Phone call is going to be the freaking... It's not going to be good either way. No matter what way it ends, it's not going to be good for whoever is messing around.
AUDIO RECORDING: No.
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, it's... And listen, I don't want some... I don't want any problems. Imagine, like, look at this. I'm picking up somebody else's, you know?
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, I don't even know... Listen, the last thing I want to do is — the last thing I want to do is have some guy who's trying to extort money go to jail and then feel like he's sitting in jail because of me. Like, no. Like, fucking just leave us alone.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm not looking to send people to jail. That's not how I live life.
AUDIO RECORDING: But it's going to happen if this guy keeps doing that.
AUDIO RECORDING: The police will get involved.
AUDIO RECORDING: We'll get in trouble. That's worse.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, don't try it. Especially — you can't be calling somebody's business. What's wrong with people? Well, you can't be sending letters. You can't be showing up on the street.
AUDIO RECORDING: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know. But then it's like, that's what I'm saying. It's like, what? It's like a setup. Like, what do you got?
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, what's going on? You know, or it could be someone, like, thinking, like — ah, but the fact that this is it.
AUDIO RECORDING: The next step also, what I'm thinking is, in a couple of days I'll tell the person, hey, give me the name of someone in this family that owes you money, because I'm going — I'm going to go pay them a visit. Give me a name. Is it my brother?
AUDIO RECORDING: Is it Robert? And I'll take care of it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, and I will see that if someone owes somebody money, they will pay, but you've got to give me a name, because you're talking to the wrong people.
AUDIO RECORDING: You're not me. You're talking to other people. Who are you? Katie, I have cousins.
AUDIO RECORDING: I've got a huge family.
AUDIO RECORDING: I've got to get in here. My kids are, like, you know, they're sponges. They do everything, and I'm very upset. That — do you want me to — do you want me to try to meet up with you, you want me to just leave it for you to pick up tomorrow? Yes, if you can. I want to — I want to, if you can. But if you can't, you know, how you want to get out of here. Okay, I was just gonna work out. Tell me what I'm trying to do, because, like, I can't have — I have to go out and see if they can't. Go work out and call me, and then I'll — and I'm not going to have to work out, imagine.
AUDIO RECORDING: You what?
AUDIO RECORDING: And I'm not going to have to work out, and imagine.
AUDIO RECORDING: I have money. Hold your sister's hand.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hold your sister's hand.
AUDIO RECORDING: Bring the jacket. Hold on, hold on. Sorry.
AUDIO RECORDING: Don't ever let her walk on your sock. You know that. You know better than that.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. All right. All right. Hit me up. It's okay, baby. Meet you, or you'll pick it up tomorrow.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, we'll go. I'll call you in like an hour if you have an hour left.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, call me in an hour.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I want to go to the next day, 4/29 of '16, and call PP.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Tell us about PP, Paul-Paul.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 8:45 a.m. in the morning, and it's a call from Mr. Adelson to Ms. Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: From Mr. Adelson to Katherine Magbanua?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, what's up?
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, I just — leave it. I wanted to go see you because I have a lot of shit to tell you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Pardon?
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, like, you're all the way far away. I don't know what's all I'm gonna get out.
AUDIO RECORDING: I break bonds.
AUDIO RECORDING: The kids, like, I don't know yet. Like, I could tell them, but he got home really late at night because it was so funny. Okay, but of course — remember I told you somebody passed away? Yeah, you just came, reason this girl ended up with my friends, which they don't know each other, where they were at two or three days ago. She did that because — I remember I had a conversation in the bar, and supposedly that was her roommate. Well, she's a little gossiper, so I guess she wanted to know that. She's mad because when I had spoke to my friends, and he said, yeah, I spoke to her. She was blowing up my phone in the morning talking about, who the fuck is this? And she's like, oh, how do you not know? Whatever, we don't need it. I don't — my phone changed, he doesn't save the number, you know what I mean? She's like — he told her that I don't give a fuck. Like, I really don't care for this. Like, I don't care who she was, but she just needed to be out of the searching bar. Like, she obviously was going to get her ass ready, you know? Yeah, he thinks you're right. Yo, this — like, like, like, no, I don't want my sister sneaking out. She — her sister, her older sister, was like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay over at my house.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, you don't even fucking know what I'm trying to say.
AUDIO RECORDING: It was just weird. And then the conversation that they had, she's like, oh, I didn't do it. I was like, well, you knew that you didn't do it.
AUDIO RECORDING: My friend was like, I just want to see my — my little girls, you know?
AUDIO RECORDING: The way it's coming up, I don't know. Like, we're just being, like, cautious about everything.
AUDIO RECORDING: Just know the rest of the thing, because they had died on them really late. Like, I was knocked out, and I was, like, going in and out of my feet because I was getting nervous at the same time.
AUDIO RECORDING: He's like, oh, I'm going to show up to this place.
AUDIO RECORDING: So-and-so.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he's like, I'm going to go pick up my sister, because I want my sister to sleep over, whatever.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, like, she's probably sleeping in my house, but there's my couch.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right. So I'm going to pick her up.
AUDIO RECORDING: But the thing is, he's making it play out, and it seems like, like, you know, everybody... All of a sudden, they — yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Everybody's fucking, like, scared.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, I always want to figure it out.
AUDIO RECORDING: Fucking problem.
AUDIO RECORDING: The accent, where it came from — there's not a lot of that.
AUDIO RECORDING: Probably.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's out there. It's out there everywhere anyway.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Listen, that's — that's not any, there's — I mean, nothing of that sort.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I mean, if someone — someone has to get their asses, they have to get their asses.
AUDIO RECORDING: We'll find out.
AUDIO RECORDING: This has become my issue now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Because with Amir Faisal, I don't think any parent should be harassed.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, under scenarios to every.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, no, it's not just — it's not just those.
AUDIO RECORDING: You never know.
AUDIO RECORDING: A lot of things.
AUDIO RECORDING: You can't just be fixated on one. Things always come out, and somebody's gonna be fucking someone, they're gonna be running their mouth, that someone get mad at somebody. This was, and then, then it seems like you know too much. Which we don't know shit, because we don't have a problem.
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, that's like the next step.
AUDIO RECORDING: Just let me see it.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm just gonna have a little chat.
AUDIO RECORDING: I feel like we need a fireside chat, just sit by the fireflies and talk about politics. He bonbons all day.
AUDIO RECORDING: The two things that I fucking can't stand.
AUDIO RECORDING: Religion and politics.
AUDIO RECORDING: You'll always be my third favorite Jew.
AUDIO RECORDING: As long as T.I. doesn't convert.
AUDIO RECORDING: Jewish, then I got knocked down to number four.
AUDIO RECORDING: Then Jesus.
AUDIO RECORDING: There's no way to spend a night with Jesus or a night with T.I.
AUDIO RECORDING: You're trying to defend the fact that you'd rather spend a night with T.I.
AUDIO RECORDING: I gotta get you one of those little bracelets with T.I.'s picture on it.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, I know you would. Wouldn't it be awesome if they sold that? I swear to God, I would buy that for you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I will leave that. Hey, is that number really tatted on your side?
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you know that's been the code to my garage for the last like six years? When I set it up, I just, it looked like an easy number.
AUDIO RECORDING: So you got that number proof.
AUDIO RECORDING: We used to write numbers down on our hand. So that's like, any, no cell numbers.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's pretty cool.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. It was a little bit, but it meant something. It was one bee.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, but it meant something too, like, you know. Well, it's better than a mosquito.
AUDIO RECORDING: What the fuck is a bee? A mosquito? No one cares. A mosquito, everyone just walks over. You know what? A bee dies when they sting somebody.
AUDIO RECORDING: When a bee stings another bee or whatever, they die.
AUDIO RECORDING: What the fuck is sting, people?
AUDIO RECORDING: Did you know a human brain weighs eight pounds?
AUDIO RECORDING: Did you know that bees can smell fear?
AUDIO RECORDING: They can smell fear?
AUDIO RECORDING: I see you and Jerry Maguire, the kid keeps going to, uh... You know that bees can smell fear?
AUDIO RECORDING: Did you know that the human head weighs eight pounds? Yeah, he starts doing all that shit to him. What is this?
AUDIO RECORDING: That is your, uh, your wingspan, I think.
AUDIO RECORDING: What is your wingspan?
AUDIO RECORDING: Sometimes, you know, the blonde wingspan to my head.
AUDIO RECORDING: I feel like it's been there for like six years.
AUDIO RECORDING: At least you won't forget.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's a very significant number.
AUDIO RECORDING: I told you. How did you not know when I told you what I got?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't think I, yeah, I think I was just trying to read it.
AUDIO RECORDING: I can't read Roman numerals. Numbers are Roman numerals.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to put that stuff back in the, uh, say it again, let me ask you this. Do you want to — they called me again from the morning. You want me to just tell them I'm, uh, negative, right?
AUDIO RECORDING: I think I called them back, and they fucking pissed me off. They took a month to get back to me.
AUDIO RECORDING: Um, I never got a chance to go to Hallmark.
AUDIO RECORDING: I didn't buy flowers.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I don't buy flowers anymore.
AUDIO RECORDING: I buy flowers.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know, the only time.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, but look at the one time I bought you flowers.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, you.
AUDIO RECORDING: He drives so fast with a 1,200-pound scale.
AUDIO RECORDING: He had a fucking back, and he had two kids in the back.
AUDIO RECORDING: I come by, and you know when you come in, there's — there's the laundry room to your left. In the laundry room, top — the top left.
AUDIO RECORDING: You got any — if you think there's a chance you can go to the hospital, I could break out. But a little bit agents.
AUDIO RECORDING: hammered.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If I could, I'd like to skip ahead to RR. It's on 5/13 of 2016 at 4:06 p.m. It's a call from Katherine Magbanua to Charlie Adelson.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to get a picture from it for the mechanic. It's $90 to align. So basically I dropped another $400 just on the tires and alignment.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's what?
AUDIO RECORDING: $400 I've already spent.
AUDIO RECORDING: Sully could order them and ship them. I mean, you're doing everything on your own and then bitching about how much it costs, rather than have someone who's going to pay for it for you. I know, but I'm going to go over there and, like, hello, the tires is already messed up. Like, what are you gonna do? He will pay for it. He will get you new tires, or I will. So you want to do things on your own and then you want to bitch about how much they cost, or you want to let someone else take care of it for you and just get it fixed.
AUDIO RECORDING: I will either pay for it or Sully will fix it for free. Then you go ahead and do it on your own and then you get a bill. Like, whatever. But he was already starting to do it. I couldn't drive my car.
AUDIO RECORDING: I got it. Totally.
AUDIO RECORDING: Or let Sully order the tires and pay for them and have them deliver them and pay for them. Well, I will, through Sully.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know, but I mean, I'm going to tell him, like, hello. But he knows I took him to another shop. Like, he knows.
AUDIO RECORDING: Call Sully now.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't have a picture yet. I want to be able to show him.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I'm getting a picture.
AUDIO RECORDING: Let him know what's going on and tell him you're getting a text and a picture.
AUDIO RECORDING: Will you do that for me now? I'm going to do it now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I mean, it's like you going to a different dental office and telling me that they charge you a bunch of money. I'm like, come to my office, I'll take care of it for you. I mean, you work there also.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Agent Sanford — That call's on May 20 — uh, May 13th, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. 2016.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. I want to fast forward to May 24th, 2016.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you conduct an interview on that day?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Could you tell the jury about that interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: Went up to Mr. Garcia's employment.
MR. ZANGENEH: Can we have sidebar?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's let the jury step out.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's take a proffer. What do you intend to get into, Ms. Cappleman?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, so you went up to Mr. Garcia's place of employment. Did you conduct an interview with him at his place of employment?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was that a custodial situation?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it was not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Was he free to leave at any time?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And did you — what type of questions did you ask him?
PATRICK SANFORD: Just asked him about, um, if he'd ever been to Tallahassee, if he'd ever gone on any trips with Mr. Rivera.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And was the interview recorded?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And have you had an opportunity to review the — it's been redacted — but the redacted recording of the interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't think I heard the redacted version.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You're okay. Well, I guess I'll have to do that. But the interview that you listened to — was it a fair and accurate recording of the interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So if I've taken out portions pursuant to stipulation, the remainder would also continue to be a fair and accurate portion of the interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's true, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, that's the proffer.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Does it have an exhibit number?
PATRICK SANFORD: 157.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Is there a transcript?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Is this what's redacted, or — have a seat. Um, or what you're doing? Is this the entirety of it, or the —
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Redacted. And one correction for the record, Judge, is State's exhibit 156 is the disc.
JUDGE HANKINSON: So it doesn't seem like there's any problem with the conclusion of it, Mr. Zangeneh. So what's your objection?
MR. ZANGENEH: Law enforcement approaches Mr. Garcia while he's at employment, therefore guarding themselves from having to employ Miranda.
MR. ZANGENEH: They do instruct him that he's free to leave, but he is at work. And obviously, the perception of attempting to flee work while federal agents enter your employment — you're put in a situation where you're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Then they inquire, and they ask him questions about the trips in question, his relationship — or does he have a friend named Luis Rivera — his relationship with —
JUDGE HANKINSON: What's your legal objection?
MR. ZANGENEH: It's 403(b)? I'm sorry, 403. I apologize. I saw a federal agent in front of me and I mixed up the federal and state rules of evidence. So it's far more damaging than it is probative. In essence, what it does is law enforcement goes to him and gets a statement without conducting any kind of Miranda warnings, in that very auspicious manner.
MR. ZANGENEH: And then they are able to get some information. It's not very conclusive, and then he asserts his right to counsel.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, in addition — in addition to 403, Judge, I think that it confuses the jury. I think that they hear portions of testimony and then it gets cut off, and the implication there is that he invokes.
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor. Given the fact that this is pursuant to his questioning, therefore it's testimonial and it implicates confrontation.
MR. DECOSTE: There's also the other issue, and this goes back to our motion to sever — and if the Court were to allow this evidence in, we renew the motion to sever. That statement —
JUDGE HANKINSON: What does it say about your client?
MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, it's entering in a statement that, if Ms. Magbanua were in trial alone before this Court — that statement of Sigfredo Garcia being questioned, that may or may not be true, but anyway —
JUDGE HANKINSON: Does it implicate your client because of this statement? The answer — your answer — no. But how long is this?
JUDGE HANKINSON: What's that? Let Mr. Sanford look over what we're doing in the way of a transcript. Something else, Mr. DeCoste?
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor. We've never been given this transcript. Again, we have the same issue where the State is coming forward with something and expecting us in a matter of seconds to be able to review it for accuracy. Part of the stuff that we were given — I'm sure that there's going to be a certificate at the end of that transcript that this thing was produced weeks ago, if not months ago. I believe that the State's operating right now thinking that the Court isn't going to do anything against them, and that's why this keeps happening over and over again. This is the definition of trial by hand — we'll try to keep doing this.
JUDGE HANKINSON: We'll take a few minutes.
BAILIFF: All rise, come to order. The court is back in session.
BAILIFF: All rise for the jury.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So you were telling us about going into Mr. Garcia's place of employment on May 24th, 2016.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What happened once you entered his place of employment?
PATRICK SANFORD: I asked him if he could step outside and speak to us.
PATRICK SANFORD: His supervisor approached us, questioned us, asked who we were. I explained to her we just needed to talk to Mr. Garcia. We ended up stepping out in the hallway and started talking to him.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was this a custodial situation, or was Mr. Garcia free to leave?
PATRICK SANFORD: He was free to leave.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Was the interview recorded?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How was the recording done?
PATRICK SANFORD: I had a body digital recorder.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I'm going to show you what I've marked as State's Exhibit 156.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you have an opportunity to review 156?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I have.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is it a fair and accurate recording of the conversation you had with Mr. Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time I'd ask to introduce State's 156.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Any additional objections?
MR. ZANGENEH: No additional objections.
MR. DECOSTE: Nothing additional, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: State's 156 will be admitted.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May I publish?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Permission may produce a demonstrative transcript.
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Give them just a moment to cross those out.
MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, same objection as to these transcripts.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
MR. DECOSTE: For the record, we've just received it now.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: For the record, I have evidence to the contrary on that.
JUDGE HANKINSON: But, attorneys, we're not going to argue in front of the jury. Please. I think you'll know better than this. You may publish.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Thank you all.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, Luis Rivera — Luis Rivera, something like that. We got some information about something that happened a couple years ago, and your name popped up in it. Oh, it is Trevor. Okay, all right.
AUDIO RECORDING: This happened up in North Florida, up in the northern end of Florida. Have you ever been to Tallahassee, Florida? No, I have not. No, never.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Do you know of Luis Rivera, or Luis Rivera, or something like that? Actually, I know several, but at the same time — Oh, excuse us.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, is there one that you're friends with or anything, that you hang out with or anything? He would be like — a little more specific as to what it is that he's asking for, or why I might know him, or if I'm cute. I think he can say I know him, because from my prior experience, I'm sure you know my name. You know exactly where to call me.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, you got a nice job. And we found out you had kids. I didn't want to do this in front of any kids, you know what I mean?
AUDIO RECORDING: It's bad enough doing it at your work, but I don't know where else to find you.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's either at home or at work. It's only two places I know to come and talk to you about it. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to freak your kids out and stuff.
AUDIO RECORDING: Can we walk a little bit further, maybe?
AUDIO RECORDING: Just so there aren't too many people.
AUDIO RECORDING: That doesn't bother me. That's fine.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's a why should I know or should I not know.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Well, there's some information about some things that happened up north, and your name was thrown out there. Some information just came to light recently that you and Mr. Rivera might have had something to do with it up north. Do you know Dan Markel?
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you know who Dan Markel is? I don't know anybody I know. You don't know anybody you know? Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: So you've never been to North Florida either.
AUDIO RECORDING: As far as taking trips up north or anything, have you... Never once have I. Never once have I. You've never been up that way? Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Who do you live with right now? Do you live with somebody... I live with my wife. You are married, okay. Yes, yes. What's her name?
AUDIO RECORDING: Wife.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's, you know, I'm not going to really... And, you know, your name came up in an investigation, obviously, and that's why we're trying to get your side of the story, to find out if there's any validity to it, if there's any, you know, reason about it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Your wife works, obviously, somewhere and makes money herself.
AUDIO RECORDING: So what kind of car does she drive?
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, I'm trying — I'm trying to get you to talk to me about some stuff, and I can't tell you what our investigation is totally about, right? I mean, okay, your name came out, like I told you. Gotcha. Yeah. Now, you know, well, for yourself, sure, you know that. I guess my eyes with FBI, it's like, wow, you know, this is not something I'm accustomed to, so obviously I'm on defense. I don't want to say anything more than what I want to say, but if I could help, obviously I'd be more than happy to. You know, I definitely don't want people coming over here to my job, because obviously right now that's stirred up, because when I got this job, I'm not the greatest person to have a job in financing.
AUDIO RECORDING: So right now what you practically did was just like... You go back in and tell her you're a witness in a case? You go back and tell them that they have a thing — are they in litigation, are they going to court, is it, are they getting audited, is it something that I'm doing against my company now? Yeah, like, pretty much he just, like, part of my friends all over, a little bit of character. We're trying not to — that's why we tried to just whisper to you. I appreciate at least the attitude the other way, in the end, of your kids. We thought this would be the better, the discreetness, but you know, a phone call maybe, I don't know. Well, we didn't know your number either. What's your phone number? Your cell phone number. Can we get that in there? Yeah, I'm sorry. I want to, but it's just, I feel like I should be a little bit defensive now, because, you know, you guys throw a little too much at me. I'm a little bit upset that it had to happen. I hear you.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, we got a job to do. We got to make these things happen. No, no, I respect that. I respect that. Actually, I'm talking with you, so it's like... And then recently, you know, it's just, it just doesn't feel right. Right now, seem very welcoming. We got some information and we're trying to find out if that information — do you have it at all? I travel to Orlando, I go to Disney, I go to L.A., I've gone to the Dominican Republic with my family, stuff like that. Okay, all right.
AUDIO RECORDING: Mr. Rivera is a little short, short Hispanic, I think he's got some tattoos and stuff. I mean, you know a lot of guys you hang out with, I mean, there's a lot of them like that. This one got locked up in jail, he's in prison right now. Okay, you know, my name is very different. It is. It is very specific. There's not a whole lot of people with your name out there. That's how we ever find you so easy, because somebody gave up your name. Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you have a nickname? Is your nickname Tuto?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Do you know Rivera as Tato?
AUDIO RECORDING: Tato. Tuto. Okay. Do you know a Luis Rivera?
AUDIO RECORDING: I know several Luis Riveras. Okay. Just keep it like that, because I don't understand what you're involved with. Okay, well, I want to find out who this guy is and find out exactly what his deal is, if you're tight with him or not, if you've been with him a lot.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, I got you.
AUDIO RECORDING: How do you get nine and four? Oh, awesome. A good agent. Got one of each. Awesome. That's pretty cool. That diaper stage, but they can still do their own stuff now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I already see sleeps throughout life.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's awesome, man. Sleep through the night now and not have to worry about it? We always sleep through the night. So what can I do to — obviously we have to — there's some issues that you want to speak to me about. I feel like I shouldn't speak any more than I have to, because for some reason I don't want to be collateral damage, or even something that I have nothing to do with. If you have nothing to do with it, that's what you need to clear your name with.
AUDIO RECORDING: For me to clear my name on something I don't know anything about? Yeah. Well, here's the deal. We got a bunch of stuff at the office that I can't sit down — if you want to go to the office, we sit down and I go over some stuff, some documents and stuff like that, and find out if you know anything about all this stuff. So you have to be willing to come down to the office. But that just sounds wrong. Okay, just like you have a whole bunch of stuff on people that you're saying that came and said you might be able to help us out, you might be able to point us out and say, yeah, I know this person, they were doing this, they were doing that. Yeah, I'm not really that guy. I'm not. Oh, sorry, we're just talking. Thanks now.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know what, it really helped clear some stuff up, man. How's my attorney call you guys? Who's your attorney? I don't know yet, but I want to call him. Okay. Okay. I mean, if you can do anything wrong, man, you don't have anything. Well... I hear you, man. I hear you.
AUDIO RECORDING: I hate to leave this hanging like this, though, man. I know, man. I hate it too, bro. You're telling me? I got to get out of my job. I know. It's not hanging right now. When I walk back in, there's a parade of questions. It's going to be ridiculous, right? Tell them I'm here. That's all. We won't talk in front of them. We're not going to put you out there like that. Yeah, yeah. But you came up to my desk. That's why my manager started. My supervisor, I'll eat your breakfast.
AUDIO RECORDING: My supervisor comes up, and she does it because nobody's allowed inside the finance office, because we have people's personal information. And now we're PCI compliant, it was accredited, we can't have it. So y'all have walk-in people come in and talk to you, it's all through the phone? Yeah. So when you guys came in, obviously, I got you. She's like, this is not allowed. I got you, I got you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, that's our mistake, we didn't realize what the hell was sitting up in there.
AUDIO RECORDING: I didn't want to call your manager and say, hey, we're the FBI, we need to talk to you. We're trying to get around her so she doesn't, you know, she doesn't want to screen your job. There's no getting around her.
AUDIO RECORDING: I can tell, I can tell.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, I can tell. That's why I want you to step outside so I can show you. My career is not short to hurt. Yeah, but it could have been a disgruntled... I don't know. I understand her reason. I totally understand.
AUDIO RECORDING: But you can see about what we were trying to do. We were trying not to put you out there with your manager. I got you. I understand that. No, I know what I said was done. That's why I said, okay, I'm not going outside with this guy. I don't know if he's somebody we lent money to. He defaulted on it. He wasn't happy with the terms. He might shoot me in the hallway.
AUDIO RECORDING: You can see it in my shirt.
AUDIO RECORDING: Very plain. Big gun, too. Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know. I really don't. I'm not going to go without an attorney. I mean, I understand, unless you're telling me I'm under arrest and you're taking me to jail. I want to help you guys. I really do.
AUDIO RECORDING: Anything I can do to help you, I would be more than happy to help you, but I'm not going to just put myself in a position where I might not be helping myself.
AUDIO RECORDING: I got you. It might not work out for me. I got you.
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, I don't know. I'm trying to think if there's anything else we can — somehow we can resolve this by staying here in this hall. Anyway, so you haven't been to Tallahassee, and you don't really — have you taken any trips with Mr. Rivera, with Toto? No. You ever been anywhere with him? No. Do you know what his phone number is? I mean, stuff like that. And your old phone number, stuff like that would help us. I mean, it might clear things up. If we know what phone you were using and what phones other people were using during time periods, it would help us out. You could tell us his phone number, stuff like that. I think nowadays, by writing the phone number down — do you really remember any of your friends' phone numbers by memory? Not anymore.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's an old art.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know my mom's number.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, ones that people have for a long time. But your own phone number — do you remember your own phone number? Yeah, I changed my number a couple times too, as well, because me and my wife were separated for a while. So I was with some other girls, couldn't come back home with the same number. Where were y'all separated? How long?
AUDIO RECORDING: For about two years.
AUDIO RECORDING: Wow.
AUDIO RECORDING: You're back together now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Awesome. Yeah, I got kids, you know. Absolutely. That's good, though, man. That's good for the kids, for sure, you know. Really?
AUDIO RECORDING: There's arguments both ways, but, you know, kids need both areas.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's tough on kids. It drives the kids a little more.
AUDIO RECORDING: Absolutely. That's cool, man.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's impressive you got back to it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know what it's like, man, so that's cool. So you all been back together. Have we caught you all apart for two years?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, probably even more than that, a little more than that. Really? Yeah. Wow, okay. It's alright though, you know what it is, what it is.
AUDIO RECORDING: I hear you, man. I don't want to keep you from your job here. I'll just — I have to leave this. I don't want to go back and get my job now, actually. It's like right now I'm in a position that I don't even know what I'm going to say, but I've never been there. I don't have anything to say, I don't know what to say.
AUDIO RECORDING: I hear you, man. The FBI came and asked me questions about some Spanish Latino guy that's short with tattoos, and they wanted me to know if I've taken trips with him. That's, like, odd questions. And it's, you know, it's like, no, obviously — but it's still scary to me because I don't know what you guys want, what people are trying to tie me into.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, yeah. Because the FBI don't just come around asking people questions. I watch enough suicide to know that.
AUDIO RECORDING: And, you know, like I said, if we knew you, if we thought you did something, it wouldn't be me and Hunter standing here coming up to you, just talking to you. You know what I'm saying? We're just trying to get information from you. I'm just trying to get you to help us.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's just at my expense.
AUDIO RECORDING: I understand you guys are trying to do something, but right now, you guys just... I'm just trying to think of ways to clear this thing up, man.
AUDIO RECORDING: We had somebody call in and gave us your information about something that happened up north.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to tell you about it. There was a homicide up in the north part of Florida up there.
AUDIO RECORDING: Did you ever hear about it? Dan Markel?
AUDIO RECORDING: A homicide?
AUDIO RECORDING: Outside. Yeah. You hadn't heard about that murder or anything? You know anything about it, ever hear it on the news or anything? No murder.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Would you like me to collect the transcripts?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Please.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So that interview was on May 23rd of '16.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When was Mr. —
PATRICK SANFORD: May 24th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm sorry, May 24th of '16.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you, Judge.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: When was Mr. Garcia arrested?
PATRICK SANFORD: On May 25th, the following evening.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So the day after the interview.
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And were you present for his arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And where was his arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was in Hollywood, Florida, in a gas station right off the interstate.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right, and was Mr. Garcia in a vehicle, or was he driving a vehicle at the time of his arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What vehicle was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: The black Lexus.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Same black Lexus that Ms. Magbanua was arrested driving?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No further questions.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Cross.
MR. ZANGENEH: Special Agent Sanford, good afternoon.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: So, as a member of the FBI, would it be safe to say that you have other relationships with other agents in the FBI?
PATRICK SANFORD: In the FBI, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: So an agent from Tallahassee could call an agent in Miami and say, "Hey, listen, I need information about one of your investigations about a current investigation I have," and they usually want to help you out?
PATRICK SANFORD: Generally, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, you indicated that you started — when you started your investigation, one of the things that you first investigated was Luis Rivera's affiliation and association with the Latin Kings, is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's not one of the first things I investigated, no.
MR. ZANGENEH: Let me rephrase it. Is one of the things that you investigated Luis Rivera's gang affiliation with the Latin Kings?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did not investigate that association.
PATRICK SANFORD: I talked to the Miami FBI and Miami ATF about their investigation.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you indicated on direct examination that Mr. Rivera is currently serving a federal RICO sentence, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And do you know what RICO stands for?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not off the top of my head.
MR. ZANGENEH: Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations — sound about right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's right.
MR. ZANGENEH: And the RICO in this case is the Latin King association. That's the reference that's being made in his federal indictment, is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so.
MR. ZANGENEH: Would it be fair to say that you had access, because of your relationship as an FBI agent, to the actual FBI case file in his Latin King indictment?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, because it was actually investigated by the DEA and ATF.
MR. ZANGENEH: As an FBI agent, could you call DEA or ATF and ask for their assistance?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you did that in this case, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And did they assist your investigation, or did they hinder your investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: I guess you could say they assisted it by providing me with information.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, let's talk about that.
MR. ZANGENEH: They showed you a copy of the indictment, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I don't believe I ever saw a copy of the indictment.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, would you agree with me that the copy of the indictment in the federal RICO statute, where Luis Rivera is a Latin King, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And it was a Latin King indictment, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: There were other Latin Kings indicted with it. Is that what you mean?
MR. ZANGENEH: Correct.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And actually there were roughly 19 Latin Kings, including Luis Rivera, in that indictment, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'll take your word for it.
MR. ZANGENEH: It's not my word, I'm asking you.
JUDGE HANKINSON: He said he didn't see the indictment. He was saying they weren't listening.
MR. ZANGENEH: I must not have caught that, Judge.
MR. ZANGENEH: All right, so you have access to the federal case file on Luis Rivera's federal indictment, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I can't just pull up somebody's case file. That's incorrect.
MR. ZANGENEH: Maybe I didn't ask that the right way. Were you able to gain access to it?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MR. ZANGENEH: Were you able to gain access to the wire intercepts on this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, they provided me a copy of the wire intercepts.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And the copy that we're talking about is the federal government listening — just kind of like you were listening to Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua's phone calls, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct, but it's DEA and ATF doing that.
MR. ZANGENEH: But it's the same thing. You're still listening to calls, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: But it's specific people who are allowed to listen to them. Not just everybody in the federal government can go listen to somebody else's calls.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you got a copy of these calls.
PATRICK SANFORD: I did.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. That's what I'm trying to get.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So you have in your possession now, if you were called — would it be fair to say that the calls were from October 2014 till December 2014? Does that timeline sound about right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I think it was November to December, I believe, from my recollection.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you not recall a specific call on October 23rd that was part of the wire intercept, that was part of a factual proffer in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know which call you're talking about.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is there anything I could show you that could refresh your recollection?
PATRICK SANFORD: If you tell me what it's in regards to, it could refresh my mind.
MR. ZANGENEH: In Luis Rivera's case, there was a call that was intercepted by Luis Rivera seeking the assistance of other Latin — Would you like to see a copy of the factual proffer with what I'm specifically referring to?
JUDGE HANKINSON: It's outside the scope of the examination also, so I'll sustain it for you.
MR. ZANGENEH: You listened to all the phone calls on the wire intercept, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's incorrect.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you have people on your team listen to all these calls?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not all the calls. All the calls dealing with Luis Rivera, we did.
MR. ZANGENEH: You'll agree with me that the wire intercept in this case is in the latter portion of 2014, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Within a few months of this murder-for-hire, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you're telling this jury that you didn't listen to every single phone call — that Luis Rivera, one of the main perpetrators in the government's theory, a cooperating defendant, you didn't listen to all those calls?
PATRICK SANFORD: We listened to every call that Luis Rivera was involved in, not every call that the entire wire was involved in, because it had, like you said, 20 people involved, and there was hundreds of hours of calls.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you understand that they intercepted Luis's phone.
PATRICK SANFORD: And I said we listened to every call that Luis Rivera was involved in.
MR. ZANGENEH: Maybe I didn't ask you that. So you listened to every one of King Tato's calls, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection — asked and answered.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
MR. ZANGENEH: During that time, do you know if he called King Langema?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
MR. ZANGENEH: Or any one of your team — attempt to interview any of the defendants on the federal indictment?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, we did not.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll agree with me that at the time Luis Rivera was arrested, all 22 people on the indictment had pled guilty on that federal indictment.
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm not aware if every one of them did or not. I'm not sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you have the ability to conduct these interviews?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we did, but we didn't want to burn our chance for the wire.
MR. ZANGENEH: You didn't want to burn your chances on the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct — having an upcoming wire, that's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you attempt to interview these people after the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MR. ZANGENEH: During your investigation, did you learn that there were over 100 Latin Kings under Luis Rivera's North Miami tribe?
PATRICK SANFORD: I didn't learn that number. I knew he had a tribe.
MR. ZANGENEH: Were any members of the tribe interviewed?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm not sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, Luis Rivera goes to federal prison in 2015, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you began, and At this point, would it be fair to say that he's already a target in your investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: At which point?
MR. ZANGENEH: In 2015. By the time he pleads guilty and goes to federal prison, is he a target in your investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's incorrect.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm asking you — is he?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he's not. He's not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Federal agent, you prepare specific reports when you do an investigation that are called 302s — is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And as the case agent in this case, from the federal perspective, you would be in charge of collecting all the 302s? Is that a fair assessment?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm not in charge of collecting them. People are responsible for providing their own reports into the case file.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, would it be fair to say that the case file is in your possession?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it's a digital case file. Electronic.
MR. ZANGENEH: How many 302s were prepared in reference to this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know.
MR. ZANGENEH: Roughly — was it more than 100?
PATRICK SANFORD: Probably.
MR. ZANGENEH: About 150 sound about right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Maybe. Maybe less.
MR. ZANGENEH: And how many of those 302s — and a lot of these 302s were in reference to interviews that you guys did, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Some of them, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Like the people from the car rental place, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Chadrick Nobles, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I did not do a 302 on Chadrick Nobles because he was recorded.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. What about Mr. Rivera's girlfriend — you remember her name?
PATRICK SANFORD: Mr. Rivera's girlfriend?
MR. ZANGENEH: Luis Rivera's girlfriend. His baby's mother.
PATRICK SANFORD: Jessica, who you're referring to?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes. Did you do a 302 on her?
PATRICK SANFORD: I did a short 302 on her, but I think she was recorded too.
MR. ZANGENEH: And by recorded, do you mean like audio recorded or video recorded?
PATRICK SANFORD: Audio recorded.
MR. ZANGENEH: So just kind of like you put a tape player down and you push play?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MR. ZANGENEH: But more sophisticated than that?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, there's different — the Tallahassee Police Department records theirs. We generally don't, unless we have permission from our supervisor.
MR. ZANGENEH: So you're saying that Chadrick Nobles was videotaped or audiotaped?
PATRICK SANFORD: That was videotaped by the police department.
MR. ZANGENEH: And Jessica Rodriguez was just audiotaped?
PATRICK SANFORD: That was just audiotaped.
MR. ZANGENEH: Was she put on notice that she was being audiotaped?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she was not.
MR. ZANGENEH: So you interviewed Jessica Rodriguez, who is Luis Rivera's baby mama, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you interview — and you know that Luis Rivera, at the time of the arrest, was the first Crown, or the Inca, or the head of the North Miami tribe, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: The time of what arrest?
MR. ZANGENEH: At the time of his arrest.
PATRICK SANFORD: By us, or by the—
MR. ZANGENEH: Both.
PATRICK SANFORD: I didn't even know who he was when he got arrested back then. Didn't know who he was at all.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you learned during your investigation that he was the first Crown of the Latin Kings, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Of the North Miami tribe.
MR. ZANGENEH: North Miami tribe, yes. Did you attempt to interview the second Crown?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I did not.
MR. ZANGENEH: The enforcer?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I did not.
MR. ZANGENEH: The secretary?
PATRICK SANFORD: Nope.
MR. ZANGENEH: And is that because the Latin Kings are known to have a code of silence?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it's more because we had no information that they were involved with it.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, there's a portion of Luis Rivera's interview that you did.
MR. ZANGENEH: You did multiple interviews with Mr. Rivera, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so. I believe it was two.
MR. ZANGENEH: So there's one on September 30th of 2014, is that correct, sir?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And during — I'm sorry, 2016.
MR. ZANGENEH: I said 2014. I'm sorry — right, it was 2016. And during that time, you're there, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Detective Isom's there, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Obviously, Luis Rivera's there.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: One of his lawyers is there, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Was it the — it's a father-son team. I believe it was the father.
MR. ZANGENEH: Oh. The father's the guy with the gray hair, as opposed to the shaved head.
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Ms. Cappleman there?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not in the room.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Well, when you say "not in the room," what does that mean?
PATRICK SANFORD: She was in the building, in another room.
MR. ZANGENEH: And would it be fair to say that she was part of this process — part of the process of the proffer?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, that's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now At this point we know that Mr. Rivera has agreed to a plea deal of 19 years, to run at the same time as his federal sentence, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I believe that's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Were you part of the negotiations between the government and Mr. Rivera's defense team with regards to what the outcome of a sentence would be if he cooperated?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not at all.
MR. ZANGENEH: Were you present when any of this occurred?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, and—
MR. ZANGENEH: So Ms. Cappleman and her team are kind of remotely located while you're talking to Mr. Rivera and his attorney, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And since you're not recording it, would it be safe to say that there was back and forth going on between law enforcement and the attorneys in the case?
PATRICK SANFORD: I think only at one point, maybe.
MR. ZANGENEH: So the answer's no, it wasn't? There was back and forth?
PATRICK SANFORD: Just one time.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So at one time you went there and they came back — so, back and forth?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we took one break, I believe.
MR. ZANGENEH: And would it be fair to say that one of the things that you guys were doing during that time is assessing his credibility?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, that's fair.
MR. ZANGENEH: And at this time, would it be safe to say that Mr. Rivera had had access, through his attorney, to parts of the discovery?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know what he had access to.
MR. ZANGENEH: As a special agent with the FBI, is it normal in law enforcement investigations that once someone's arrested, the prosecution gives them evidence?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, that's true.
MR. ZANGENEH: Any reason for you to believe that this is not one of these normal cases?
PATRICK SANFORD: That he didn't get discovery? No, there's no reason to believe that.
MR. ZANGENEH: And will you also agree with me that your conversation with him on September 30th was kind of like your first impression of speaking with him?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we were gauging his truthfulness.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's because — just like you played a tape of Sigfredo Garcia that we just listened to, from May 24th, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: You guys went to see Luis Rivera while he's in a federal prison in Coleman, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was Coleman, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. About a week before that, right? Then, in May?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, that's incorrect.
MR. ZANGENEH: When did you first go see— Take a look at the records.
PATRICK SANFORD: Our First — I don't have the dates with me, I don't believe.
PATRICK SANFORD: But it was definitely after we talked to Mr. Garcia.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: It was definitely after. We didn't talk to anybody until that day we talked to Mr. Garcia.
MR. ZANGENEH: All right, so — I'm sorry. So after May 24th, but before June 1st. Does that sound about right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, definitely.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, because he was arrested in Coleman, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. Luis Rivera was. He was — he was, I guess, served with an arrest warrant, not by us, but—
MR. ZANGENEH: Right, because when you're in custody, you don't really get arrested. They just let you know, "Hey, you've got another problem," right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Exactly.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's what happened here to Mr. Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And before that happened, you went to federal prison and you had a conversation with him, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you asked him about his involvement in this case, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he told you he wasn't involved, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And would it be fair to say that that interaction with him was also not memorialized on video or audio, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's incorrect.
MR. ZANGENEH: It was memorialized?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MR. ZANGENEH: On audio, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm sorry, maybe I should have said it better. On video, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not on video.
MR. ZANGENEH: Not on video. And you'll agree with me that the way someone talks while they're talking is something that people take into consideration when you're determining someone's truthfulness, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sometimes, correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Yeah. So September 30th, kind of your first real conversation with Luis Rivera. He's there with his lawyer. You're evaluating how he reacts to your questioning. Because would it be fair to say that you were cross-examining him or interrogating him during this talk?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's incorrect.
MR. ZANGENEH: You were just listening to a side of the story?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And — And obviously we can't show the members of this jury that interview because it wasn't memorialized on—
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection. Asked and answered.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I think he needs to answer that question. Was it recorded?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, sir.
MR. ZANGENEH: And about how long was this interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: Just guesstimating, maybe an hour, hour and a half.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have a report that you could refer to that says interview starts X time, interview ends X time?
PATRICK SANFORD: I know Investigator Isom completed a report, had details about the interview on it, but I don't remember if the times are on there.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now The October 4th statement by Luis Rivera was recorded, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And there are 31 days in September, so October 1st, October 2nd, October 3rd, and then October 4th. So four days later — four or five days later, a few days later — you guys set up another interview where you flick on the camera, and voilà, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll agree with me that this second interview, it's memorialized, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And it's memorialized not just on audio, but also on video, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll also agree with me that on this October 4th day, it's Luis Rivera, once again yourself, Special Agent — Agent Isom, a court reporter, and the same counsel, the older gentleman, correct? The older of the two counsel.
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't believe there was a court reporter present, but there was a stenographer sitting at the end of the table taking down notes. No, I believe she was a defense attorney.
MR. ZANGENEH: Oh, okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: So there's just another lady in the room.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And so you recorded one, but you didn't record the other, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And why was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Because to start with, the State Attorney's Office — that was their request. They didn't want it recorded to start with. And then after we did it, they came back and wanted it recorded. But we generally don't record our proffers in the federal system at all.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. Yeah, I know. But this isn't a federal case, right?
MR. ZANGENEH: That's correct, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: This is a state case. We're in state court, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you understand that there's a difference between a federal prosecution and a state prosecution, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: There's some differences, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll agree with me that there were two interviews, and one was recorded and one wasn't, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm showing you a CD that I showed you earlier today. Is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you know what this is, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. This is the actual October 4th interview between yourself, Agent Isom, Luis Rivera, and his legal team, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you've reviewed this?
PATRICK SANFORD: I've skipped through it quickly.
MR. ZANGENEH: Does it appear to be in the same or substantially the same condition as it was when you first took it?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Judge, at this time the defense moves what has been marked as Defense Exhibit 6 into evidence.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Object to hearsay.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'll re-enter at another portion, with another witness, Judge.
MR. ZANGENEH: That video shows Luis Rivera's body language, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. It shows the way he responds to questioning, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: It shows whether or not his attorney jumps in and starts asking questions to assist his client, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I would disagree with him doing it to assist his client. I think it was to assist the investigation.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, but you will agree that if we watch the video, this jury could draw that conclusion from this, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: They can draw that for themselves, yes. That is correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Because they'd be able to see the actual video itself, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you know how many times Luis Rivera's attorney objected or interrupted your line of questioning to redirect the questioning in that interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I don't.
MR. ZANGENEH: Judge, I'm not — I'm not offering it for the truth of the matter asserted.
JUDGE HANKINSON: You can answer that question, sir.
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I don't.
MR. ZANGENEH: One of the things the prosecution asked you about was if he made any mistakes, right? If Luis Rivera had made any factual allegations that were incorrect. You recall that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I do.
MR. ZANGENEH: And one of the — I think one of the first ones that the prosecution proffered to you was, there was a speeding ticket that Rivera received going north from Miami to Tallahassee, where I think he got the ticket in Gainesville around mile marker 375 or something like that, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sounds about right.
MR. ZANGENEH: And in his testimony he thought that that occurred not in the June trip, which the records show, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: But he believed it was in the July trip, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he also believed that instead of being on the way up, that it was on the way down, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't remember being on the way down. I think it was on the way up.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. I believe — right. You know what would clear that up for us? Would you agree that a copy of the video —
JUDGE HANKINSON: That is very inappropriate. Jury, let me explain. Generally, what people say outside the courtroom is hearsay. That's why I sustained the objection to the video. Now, if there are things in there that are inconsistent with what in court but that's my ruling, and you should not be worrying that they're inconsistent. But the full statement is here. You can proceed, Mr. Zangeneh.
MR. ZANGENEH: Thank you, Judge.
MR. ZANGENEH: So he got the date of the trip wrong, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he also indicated that my client was the one driving the vehicle the whole trip up, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Which trip?
MR. ZANGENEH: The June trip.
PATRICK SANFORD: The June trip — I don't recall off the top of my head. I'll have to look at the video again.
MR. ZANGENEH: You'll agree with me that Mr. Rivera had indicated that there was a substantial amount of drug use that occurred on that June 4th trip, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Going up north?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: You also agree with me that his timeline was way off, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm not sure what you're referring to there.
MR. ZANGENEH: Sure, no problem.
PATRICK SANFORD: Give me some specifics.
MR. ZANGENEH: Mr. Rivera said that he believed that he arrived in Tallahassee around 5 a.m., is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Early in the morning? I believe so.
MR. ZANGENEH: Like super early, like between 5 and 7?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't remember if that's what he — I don't remember if that's what he said or not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is there something I could show you that would refresh your recollection?
PATRICK SANFORD: The video, or if you showed me Mr. Isom — Investigator Isom's report.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'll tell you what, I'll get back to that.
PATRICK SANFORD: You're referring to the first trip, right?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, sir, the June 4th trip.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay, the Investigator Isom's report, then.
MR. ZANGENEH: So you questioned him about that first trip, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And other than that error, what other errors did he have in his testimony that didn't comport with him?
PATRICK SANFORD: On the June trip, or just overall?
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, right now, we're going to talk just about the June trip.
MR. ZANGENEH: What other factual inaccuracies do you recall that he made during that problem?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall off the top of my head.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is there something that will refresh your recollection? Would it be to watch the video again?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: Was there any evidence, any physical evidence, that Luis Rivera was the one that took that trip from Miami to Tallahassee?
PATRICK SANFORD: The first trip?
MR. ZANGENEH: On June 4th.
PATRICK SANFORD: Physical evidence that he took it?
MR. ZANGENEH: Let me ask you this. Do you have phone records from Luis Rivera's cell phone, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And you had his number, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he confirmed — by "he" I mean Luis Rivera — that the number that you had was in fact the number that he was using, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Correct. Okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you were able to confirm this because — I assume when he got arrested, Mr. Rivera was arrested with two phones, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know what he was arrested with.
MR. ZANGENEH: Would it be fair to say that when you started your investigation, you contacted the U.S. Attorney's office and asked them to be able to observe or borrow the evidence at hand, because his case was over at that point, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: The phone that he had during the time of the trips up, he had already gotten rid of well before he was arrested.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you look to see what the new phones were, regardless?
PATRICK SANFORD: The new ones that he was arrested with?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, sir.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we did.
MR. ZANGENEH: Let's talk about phones just real, real quick. You were part of obtaining Charlie Adelson's iCloud, correct? Were you involved in that portion of this investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: I was part of the investigation, but I did not do the search warrant to get his.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you're aware that you received — or the government received — Charlie Adelson's?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I am aware of it. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you're also aware that the government received — and that's because Charlie Adelson had some sort of device that comports with an iCloud, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Like an iPhone or iPad or iOS or whatever it is, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's generally how it works, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And we also got an iCloud for Ms. Magbanua, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And that's because she had an iPhone or, you know, whatever comports with having an iCloud, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, you're aware at the time of this incident — and I assume this comes through the cell records — that Mr. Rivera also had an iPhone, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you pull his iCloud information?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe they did, yes. Not me personally, but yes, TPD did.
MR. ZANGENEH: And by "they," who do you mean?
PATRICK SANFORD: The tech unit with Tallahassee Police Department.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did they provide you with a copy of the iCloud information?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall. I know that I was told there was nothing there. But I might have seen it. I don't recall. It was a long time ago.
MR. ZANGENEH: So, just so I have this clear: someone from a tech unit called you and said there's really nothing in his iCloud with regards to this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's not what I said.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, well, you said there's nothing there, right? Okay. What does that mean, there's nothing there?
PATRICK SANFORD: That means there was nothing attainable on it. You either didn't have it turned on where it was sharing with the cloud, or not saving, or it got deleted, so all the data was gone, if there was data ever even there, or if there was very little there that didn't amount to anything, I'm not sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: You're aware that you — the law enforcement, you guys — pulled phone records for Luis Rivera, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: You're also aware that there were, during the time period from — I believe it was early 2014 till late 2014 — during this subject portion of the conspiracy, almost 10,000-some text messages that were on Luis Rivera's handset?
PATRICK SANFORD: Which handset?
MR. ZANGENEH: His cell phone.
PATRICK SANFORD: Which cell phone?
MR. ZANGENEH: The one that he had at the time of 2014?
MR. ZANGENEH: The one that was part of — or relevant to — the conspiracy.
PATRICK SANFORD: No, because that phone was dumped and gotten rid of.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you guys pulled the phone records.
PATRICK SANFORD: Right, but there's no text messages involved in the phone records.
MR. ZANGENEH: So you can't call AT&T and ask for how many text messages Luis Rivera made, if he was an AT&T subscriber, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: They can give us an idea of the number of them, but not the content.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the number.
PATRICK SANFORD: The number of them, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: So there's about 8,000 of them?
PATRICK SANFORD: I have no idea.
MR. ZANGENEH: Agent Sanford, you were part of a detail assigned to drive up and down Florida with Luis Rivera looking for the dump site of the gun, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. You indicated there was a lot of bridges.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. There are.
MR. ZANGENEH: Between Tallahassee and Miami. And that Luis Rivera took you guys out for two days, right? Two different days?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Back-to-back days?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't think they were back-to-back. Close in proximity.
MR. ZANGENEH: Fairly close. Between September 30th and October 4th?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I don't believe that's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: So there's a second one after? So there was one in between the statements, and then one after the final statement?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And Mr. Rivera rode in the back seat of a — like a government-issued vehicle. It's a van, right? Okay, so not like a police car, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MR. ZANGENEH: So it's a van, and he's sitting next to his attorney, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And I know this because there is body cam evidence of Detective Isom, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Taking this — taking this journey, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: All right. And was there a way that you described this journey in the past? Like, would you consider, like, maybe a wild goose chase?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was trying to find evidence. I would call it a wild goose chase, no.
MR. ZANGENEH: You finally got to a bridge that Luis Rivera said, that's the bridge, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not the first trip. That would have been the second time that he believes he found the second one, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, the first — okay, so the first time he believes it's a bridge, did you bring, like, a team to do a search, a full search?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not the first trip. He did not ID the bridge on the first trip.
MR. ZANGENEH: And so how many hours do you think was in that ride? A few hours, several hours? Like one, two, seven?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, we were past — we went past Tampa. So it's five hours down and another five, six hours back.
MR. ZANGENEH: And during this time, did you give him prison-issued food, or did you guys stop by like a McDonald's or some sort of fast food for it?
PATRICK SANFORD: We did stop somewhere along the way and had to get him something to eat. I think his attorney actually got it for him, if I'm not mistaken. I don't recall exactly.
MR. ZANGENEH: So kind of like a treat.
MR. ZANGENEH: He didn't have to eat standard-issued prison food, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I wouldn't call it a treat, but okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you eaten prison food before?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MR. ZANGENEH: So on the second day, or the second trip, he stops by a bridge and says, this is where I think the dump is, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And you then call in a whole team that comes and analyzes the area, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And how many other law enforcement officers came to the scene?
PATRICK SANFORD: The first time, maybe 10.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. 10 officers from Tallahassee, or would you just call local detail?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's Tampa. It's the Tampa division. It was in their division, their territory.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. And so they lend you about a half a dozen police officers, and they started doing their—
PATRICK SANFORD: They're federal agents, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And then — right, federal agents. Law enforcement, I'm sorry. And then there was a body of water — obviously, it's a bridge — in close proximity, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And so you guys called out dive teams, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And these dive teams came from Quantico and Miami, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so, correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: May I approach, Judge?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, they're not.
MR. ZANGENEH: You don't recognize this picture?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. No.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, can you describe — was there a firearm that was recovered?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, there was not.
MR. ZANGENEH: There was no firearm recovered in the search?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, there was not.
MR. ZANGENEH: If there was a firearm recovered, would you have been put on notice?
PATRICK SANFORD: At my search, yes, absolutely.
MR. ZANGENEH: So you had one search that resulted in nothing, correct? Negative results?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And then you had another search that also resulted in negative results, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And to your knowledge, were there any other searches at any other bridges that resulted in finding a firearm?
PATRICK SANFORD: Somebody told me that the State Attorney's Office investigator conducted a search of another bridge.
PATRICK SANFORD: I was not present for it.
MR. ZANGENEH: So he was 0 for 2. And then you get — so I'll notice if this is one of the bridges that you crossed during your trip with Mr. Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: Put on notice of which bridge?
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. I mean, you drove up and down the coast of Florida with him, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: All right. And pretty much hit as many bridges as you could think of, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he came up with two, and he went no gun, no gun, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, that's incorrect.
PATRICK SANFORD: The same location was the same bridge. We did a search on the land, the same area. When we didn't find anything on the land, we came back to the same location and searched the water. It was just one bridge that he alerted me to.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And so would it be fair to say that that one bridge yielded negative results?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And then, were you put on notice on how this other bridge was found?
MR. ZANGENEH: Are you familiar with... Did you question Mr. Rivera about where he thought the gun was disposed?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, on the trip and during the interview too.
MR. ZANGENEH: And would it be common for a Latin King to dump a firearm in the middle of nowhere?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection. Speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
MR. ZANGENEH: During your investigation, did you do any due diligence to make a determination of how Latin Kings dump a firearm?
JUDGE HANKINSON: It was sustained.
MR. ZANGENEH: So, We talked about — one of the things that you talked about is that part of your investigation, you were able to find out that my client purchased two cars and a motorcycle, I think, between a month and six months after the incident, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And we know that because there's documentation with regards to these purchases?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And one was for a '94 Monte Carlo, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And on that piece of paper, the person that my client purchased the vehicle from — it has their information. There's a former title?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you contact, or did you have anyone that worked for the FBI follow up with the person that sold the '94 Monte Carlo to Sigfredo Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, we did not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Because you understand that one of the issues in this case is the price of the vehicle, correct? The price of the Monte Carlo.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. No, I wasn't aware of an issue.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, let me ask you a question. In the October 4th interview of Luis Rivera, does he give a guesstimate of how much the purchase price was for the vehicle?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe he did, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And would you agree with me that that's substantially less than the blue book — I'm sorry, was substantially more than the blue book value? —you determine what the blue book value of the vehicle was? I'm not offering it. The question is, did this agent determine the blue book value of the Monte Carlo?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct. I personally did not look at it.
MR. ZANGENEH: To your knowledge, to anybody on your team?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe somebody else on my team did.
MR. ZANGENEH: And would you agree that if the blue book value and the price listed on the title paperwork — if there was a huge discrepancy, or any discrepancy at all — the best way to determine the actual value paid would be to contact the former person, the person that Mr. Garcia bought the vehicle from, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That would be a possibility.
MR. ZANGENEH: And was that done in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not that I'm aware of.
MR. ZANGENEH: All the same. Now, there was a purchase price put for the motorcycle on the paperwork, correct? On the title paperwork?
PATRICK SANFORD: I — I don't recall if there was or not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you recall if this purchase price had any discrepancy with Mr. Rivera's statement?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you also agree that, if you wanted to — because they have the name of the former person that sold the motorcycle to my client — that a call could have been made to verify what the purchase price was?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's possible.
MR. ZANGENEH: And lying to a federal agent with regards to — any time you lie to a federal agent, that's a crime, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: It can be.
MR. ZANGENEH: It's a federal statute saying that if you lie to a federal agent, federal law enforcement, that's a federal offense, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: So these people, when questioned by federal agents, didn't give a right answer — they'd be committing a federal crime, right?
MR. ZANGENEH: And on — and finally, the old Nissan that he purchased six or seven months after the murder of Dan Markel. You'll agree with me that this came from a website? Title shows it came from Nice Cars For Less, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall that.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you recall if you contacted Nice Cars For Less to see how much my client put down, or what the total price was?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I did not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now let's get to the bump. All right, the stage performance by Special Agent Jimenez on the Donna Adelson party. Okay. And you'll agree with me that two phone calls — I'm sorry, two people had their numbers intercepted, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, that would be Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, this Magbanua is on trial here today, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is Charlie Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he's not.
MR. ZANGENEH: My friend, though, is, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sigfredo Garcia? Yes, he is.
MR. ZANGENEH: Was there a Title III — was there a wire intercept on Mr. Garcia's phone?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, there was not.
MR. ZANGENEH: You'll agree with me that Mr. Rivera indicated — or, let me rephrase it — you learned that Mr. Rivera had said that Sigfredo was like his brother, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: You'll also remember that when you approached my client the day before you arrested him, you asked him about his relationship with Luis Rivera, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's because you believed — and you guys had a good faith basis to believe — that my client and Luis Rivera had a long-standing friendship, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. There's a note given to Donna Adelson, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: This note is the basis of gathering information by stirring up concerns, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And this piece of paper, based on the testimony of Agent Jimenez — and I believe you — shows a picture of Mr. Markel, correct? An article about his untimely death, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And it purportedly has Ms. Magbanua's name on it, right? Katie?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it does not.
MR. ZANGENEH: It doesn't say Katie's name on it?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it does not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Does it say my client's name on it?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it does not.
MR. ZANGENEH: So it doesn't say either Katie or Tuto on the paper, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it does not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you guys take a photocopy of this paper, of this very important document, so we can show the members of the jury?
PATRICK SANFORD: We have a copy of the article. I did not take a photocopy of the actual one where we wrote the amount and the phone number on it. Failed to do that.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, we don't have that, but what we do have is, we have video, right?
MR. ZANGENEH: We have multiple videos, security surveillance — a huge operation that you guys did with regards to sending this message, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: But we don't have the message, right?
MR. ZANGENEH: We don't have the piece of paper, or at least a copy of it, that you gave to Donna.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's right.
MR. ZANGENEH: So we have video surveillance of Agent Jimenez going up to Donna Adelson, right? And in that — in that interaction, he specifically names Katie, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he specifically names Tuto, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: And Tuto as well, right? At that time, Tuto, which is King Tuto, Luis Rivera — he's in prison, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: So putting a wire intercept on his phone would just be an exercise in complete nothingness, because that phone's not working, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And the majority of federal inmates, when they make legal calls, it's through the prison system, and all those calls are recorded, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Unless you set up a legal call with your attorney, correct? Or some sort of thing that you do through the prison, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you're also aware that inmates oftentimes have phones that they're not supposed to have, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's not a part — and that's not an uncommon thing. You get caught with a cell phone in prison, you get something called a shot. Are you familiar with this? Like a violation of sorts?
PATRICK SANFORD: I know what a shot is, and it depends on the violation.
MR. ZANGENEH: My question here is this: it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility, if somebody wanted to reach out and have a phone conversation with Luis Rivera while he's in custody, that wouldn't be recorded.
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry, what's your question?
MR. ZANGENEH: Is it possible? Is it possible? Is it possible?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it's possible.
MR. ZANGENEH: And out of the two people that are named by Agent Jimenez — Katie and Tuto, my client — based on your investigation, who would be more likely to make that call to Luis Rivera? Who was closer to Luis Rivera: Sigfredo Garcia or Katherine Magbanua? Now. Okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: So the bump happens April 16th — I'm sorry, April 19th, 2016, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And the first call from Charlie to Katie happens on April 19th, 2016, right? You could refer back to yours here. "I just kind of want to get an understanding of what's going on." And at that time, he kind of gives a very vague overview as to what's going on, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Not a lot of detail?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And it appears that they are setting up — and by "they," I mean Mr. Charlie Adelson is asking to meet with Ms. Magbanua to have a face-to-face conversation, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: You indicated during direct examination that certain messages — like WhatsApp, or pardon, WhatsApp video calls, or encrypted messaging — is something that you would not be able to capture on a wire intercept. Is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Agree with me that there is a lot of stuff that's actually provided during this wire intercept, correct? Right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So if somebody wanted to use a messaging app or a vehicle to shield them from being observed, they would do it consistently, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not necessarily.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, I mean, they would have the ability to do it, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Have the ability?
MR. ZANGENEH: Sorry. Because you made a reference that you believe that there were certain times, certain things were said on WhatsApp that you guys can't see, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: But then there's a ton of other stuff that you do see, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: So that means that the person that was using another — another known encrypted communication device — reverted back to regular phones, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: So let's — let's go to K, if you could, which is the first phone call that's memorialized. And this call, I believe, is from Ms. Magbanua to my client, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: It's early in the morning, around 8:15 in the morning?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, will you agree that it appears that they've already discussed — or there's been a discussion about — a specific number, correct?
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, let me go to — these are already back, these are already in evidence, right?
MR. ZANGENEH: Judge, these are all already in evidence, correct?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have the transcripts in front of you, Special Agent?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I do not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Could I show you my transcript to refresh your recollection?
MR. ZANGENEH: Your Honor, may I approach?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm going to page four.
MR. ZANGENEH: Go ahead and take a look at those. When your recollection is adequately refreshed let me know.
MR. ZANGENEH: May I approach again, Judge?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now that I've shown you the transcript that was already been admitted into evidence, as called K, what I showed you was communication between Ms. Magbanua, who says, "You're gonna tell me I'm gonna make a call," correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, so that suggests that they previously had a discussion with regards to this incident, correct? To this —
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, calls for speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right, I mean, it makes it sound like you've already talked about this, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, and what does Sigfredo Garcia immediately say after she asks him to make the call?
PATRICK SANFORD: He says he's not going to.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he just doesn't say that — he uses emphatic profanity to say, "I'm not gonna make that effing call," correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And they continue to have it, and you'd agree with me that it's a confrontational phone call, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll agree with me it's 8 o'clock in the morning, around 8:15?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MR. ZANGENEH: Then at the end Mr. Garcia says, "I'll make the call," emphatically again, but this time saying — instead of "I'm not going to make the call," which appears to have been what he'd said before — right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: He says, "I'm going to make that," right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have any phone records showing that Mr. Garcia made any calls?
PATRICK SANFORD: Made any calls to who?
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, that's the question. To anybody.
MR. ZANGENEH: To any — no, let me say this. Did he make the call to the number given by the special agent?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he did.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Did he do it on April 21st?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it wasn't the 21st.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. What about April 20th?
PATRICK SANFORD: Are you asking me if he called on April 20th?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, sir, I am. So Charlie calls Katie, right, who's at this point — you'll agree with me — in a relationship with my client. Okay, are they living together, Mr. Garcia and Ms. Magbanua?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes. So she knows about it, goes home to her husband. Do you have any calls between Sigfredo Garcia and the bump number on the 19th of April, yes or no?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not on the 19th.
MR. ZANGENEH: The 20th of April?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I don't recall.
MR. ZANGENEH: The 21st of April?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't believe so.
MR. ZANGENEH: And if there was a call between Sigfredo Garcia and this bump number, you'd have a record of it, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Because there is a record of it almost a week later, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: So I'm trying to look for the date.
MR. ZANGENEH: I've got the date right here. It is April 28th.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, that's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Eight days later, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have any phone records of any calls between Sigfredo Garcia and any known Latin Kings between the 19th of April and the 28th of April?
MR. ZANGENEH: Would you agree with me that if somebody, as what appears in the bump, threatened my client and the client of his wife and purported to have a relationship with the Latin Kings, that my client may know other people to call with me that on July 19th Luis Rivera called another Latin King to try to find Sigfredo Garcia, right? July 19th, the day after the homicide, during the reported money pickup, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: You said Luis Rivera called who?
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm asking you if you recall what Latin King Luis Rivera called to try to find Sigfredo Garcia. Would there be something, if I could show you, to refresh your recollection? Anthony Ortiz. Sound familiar?
PATRICK SANFORD: It just came to my head. It was, yes, King Anthony.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. Another member of the Latin Kings, correct? So your evidence shows that Luis Rivera, when he was looking for Sigfredo, called another Latin King, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: This other Latin King, your evidence suggests, called my client to find him, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So did you attempt to see if any calls were made between Sigfredo Garcia and this other Latin King, King Anthony, between April 19th — I'm sorry, on April 19th, 2016?
PATRICK SANFORD: On April 19th? I didn't do the phone records. That would be Sergeant Corbitt, who did all the phone analysis.
MR. ZANGENEH: As, I guess, the federal case agent in this case, would you be put on notice if certain things took place?
PATRICK SANFORD: For the most part. Not everything.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you guys look, or did you ask to look — let's see if there's a connection between King Anthony and Sigfredo Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sure that we looked at some point. I just don't recall off the top of my head.
MR. ZANGENEH: And so can you tell the members of this jury if there were any phone calls made by Sigfredo Garcia to King Anthony on April 19th?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall, but I don't believe so.
MR. ZANGENEH: What about April 20th?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not that I know of.
MR. ZANGENEH: April 21st?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not that I know of.
MR. ZANGENEH: April 22nd?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not that I know of.
MR. ZANGENEH: Anytime in April?
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, and this is the same King Anthony that Luis Rivera — reportedly my client's best friend — called to help find Sigfredo Garcia, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Supposedly, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, you have phone records of it.
PATRICK SANFORD: That he called him. I don't know why he called him.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, they had a conversation.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right, but who told you that?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was Mr. Rivera.
MR. ZANGENEH: Luis Rivera, right? And you believe his testimony, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Direct your attention to text messages a week later.
MR. ZANGENEH: Katherine Magbanua and Sigfredo Garcia. Now, the phone calls that you guys had the jury listen to were, with regards to my client, there's one on April 21st, 2016. — on April 21st, 2016, and then the next is April 26th, 2016.
MR. ZANGENEH: Does that mean that my client and Ms. Magbanua didn't have any telephone communication between that time?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, that's not what that means.
MR. ZANGENEH: That simply means that these are the only phone calls that you have elicited to show this jury, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Let's talk about number R, text message — I think it's call number or reference number 1195 — on April 26th, around 9:52 in the morning, 2016. Ms. Magbanua sends a text message to my client. You'll call that — do you see it here?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And in that text message, she asks — or says, makes the statement — "Need to talk to you about something else," correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that suggests that they were talking about something not related to what she's going to ask about, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's what it appears to be. That's pretty much the suggestion.
MR. ZANGENEH: Correct. Six minutes and ten seconds later, my client responds, right?
MR. ZANGENEH: At 9:58 and 28 seconds, the call number — that's another text message, 1205 for the record, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Special Agent?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he says, "He was," right? That's the first thing he says? "He was"?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And then he says, "whatever," and then he puts a period, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct. Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: "Whatever is going on with you and your homie is your business."
MR. ZANGENEH: "You guys work that shit out." Pardon my language — that's not what he said, pardon my — I'm saying, but that's what he writes, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And then he responds by saying, "Don't text me."
MR. ZANGENEH: Who do you believe your homie is?
MR. ZANGENEH: Is that Charlie Adelson?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I can't hear you, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Speculation.
MR. DECOSTE: Joining that objection.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is there a response from Ms. Magbanua, to this text message?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not that I know of.
MR. ZANGENEH: There is a, uh, there's a call from Charlie Adelson to the, uh, to the undercover, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And in this call he says something to the effect of — and I'm going to paraphrase, and I'm not quoting anything — but he makes the assertion that he doesn't know who Tato or Tuto is, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And on this call, when Charlie Adelson calls the number, he finally calls the number himself, and that's after a call is placed to the business, right, or a message is left by the undercover to the business.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And do you recall the date that this call takes place?
PATRICK SANFORD: Which call are you talking about?
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm talking about two calls.
MR. ZANGENEH: The call that I'm talking about is the call that Charlie Adelson makes to the bump number.
MR. ZANGENEH: To the undercover agent, right.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. It is on 4-28-16.
MR. ZANGENEH: April 19th to April 28th, when Mr. Charlie Adelson actually called the number back — do you have any actual communication between my client, Sigfredo Garcia, and the number for the bump?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, there is not.
MR. ZANGENEH: You indicated on direct that my client did call once, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And hung up and didn't leave a message?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Correct?
MR. ZANGENEH: Is that consistent or inconsistent with Katherine Magbanua's description of how my client's call went with the undercover?
PATRICK SANFORD: That particular call that she was talking about — I believe it was inconsistent.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right, because her testimony — and it's in the record already, and we have a copy of it in the wiretaps — is that my client left a very threatening, angry message, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you would agree that that would be the kind of message someone that's being potentially extorted would leave, right? An angry message. At any point did my client call the number for the bump and threaten the person?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he did not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, in actuality — well, let's, here we go.
MR. ZANGENEH: Let's exhibit my And this is a call that occurred on 4-25-2014. Now, that's two years before this, correct?
MR. ZANGENEH: Here we go. You see right at the big box in the top right-hand corner?
PATRICK SANFORD: Two years before what?
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. Well, that message, April 25th, 2014, between Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua, occurred on April 24th, 2014, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And in that — let's go over it real quick.
MR. ZANGENEH: It says — and this is from Ms. Magbanua to Mr. Adelson: "Did Tuto call your phone?" You see that, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: His response is — what does that say right there?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did he ask who's Tuto?
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm sorry, this is still there. He goes, "Actually, he did."
MR. ZANGENEH: Right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Referred to Tuto, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's what it appears to be.
MR. ZANGENEH: For reference to taking someone out in the middle of the ocean?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection. Calls for speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
MR. ZANGENEH: Are you familiar with that saying?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Move on.
MR. ZANGENEH: That's your saying today.
MR. ZANGENEH: So in these messages, 2014, Charlie Adelson clearly knows who Tuto is, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: It appears that way.
MR. ZANGENEH: And it's also clear from that text message that he's inferring some sort of animosity between my client and him, right? Right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. You'll agree with me that when Charlie Adelson calls Special Agent Jimenez, he lies to him.
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: There's also communication in the wire intercepts where my client indicates that the phone didn't work, right? That there was no — that he tried to call and nobody picked up, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. Correct. Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Was there always an answering service or a voicemail for that phone?
PATRICK SANFORD: There wasn't always a voicemail set up on it.
MR. ZANGENEH: But other than the hang-up that you have, which occurred, I believe, when the voicemails took place — that one phone call that you have, that took place on April 28th — had Mr. Garcia called that number any time before that?
PATRICK SANFORD: No.
MR. ZANGENEH: In fact, in one of the phone calls that Mr. Garcia has with Ms. Magbanua, my client tells Ms. Magbanua, "Why don't they call the police," right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is my client being extorted for $5,000?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he's not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is Charlie Adelson being extorted for $5,000?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he was.
MR. ZANGENEH: There's a call, and that's a phone call between Charlie and the undercover, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And during this call, the agent suggests to Mr. Adelson that the family was taken care of — Katie and Tuto.
MR. ZANGENEH: "The family has taken care of" — it says "was," but I assume it's "has."
MR. ZANGENEH: And nothing has been done for taking care of Tuto, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And what they're doing here, what you're attempting to set up, is suggesting that Luis Rivera was not compensated, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: At this point, you'll agree with me that Luis Rivera hadn't been cooperating at this point, right? I mean, he hadn't even been arrested, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, so it's impossible for him to cooperate.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you don't find out until end of September, early October what Luis Rivera purports to be the payoff of this case, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And the payoff in this case, based on Luis Rivera, is $100,000, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll agree with me that written — Well, the piece of paper that was given to Donna Adelson — you are alleging that the number $5,000 was written on it, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's consistent with what's in the wire between other people, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll also agree that your agent indicated that my client and this Magbanua had been taken care of, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And the reference there, or the insinuation there, is financially, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you go from a $100,000 number, which is what's reportedly paid by Luis Rivera, to a piece of paper where you're asking for only $5,000, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's because at the time $5,000 would be about right for the number for a situation like this, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, that's not what we came up with. It was sort of a random number, a payable number.
MR. ZANGENEH: A payable number.
PATRICK SANFORD: It was a payable number, and we knew there were little things that were being taken care of along the way.
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, you had the Adelsons' bank records at this time, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Multi-multi-millionaires, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: A lot of money, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: I think one of the experts for the government testified that Charlie Adelson during this time period was making three to three and a half million dollars a year, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know what was testified to.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, well, does that sound about right? That amount of money he was making?
PATRICK SANFORD: I know he made a lot of money, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And for a regular person, $5,000 is a lot of money, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I mean, it's a lot of money, sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: But for a wealthy person, that's not a lot of money, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: I mean, Charlie Adelson drives a Ferrari, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: Pretty new Ferrari. Got a high-end Mercedes, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: Lived in a dope, dope house, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. Have you seen his house?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And have you seen where Ms. Magbanua lived?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Pretty different, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: One is kind of a low-scale, low-income, low-rent apartment, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I would call it low rent, low income.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm sorry.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's not high end.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, yes. I'm putting it in perspective.
MR. ZANGENEH: One is up here, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And one's down here, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: From a perspective standpoint.
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: Wealthy guy, working job, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
JUDGE HANKINSON: We'll take 10 minutes.
MR. DECOSTE: If I am going to be doing my cross, Judge, it's going to be several hours. It would be long, so I do think that this witness would have to come back, but I have a lot of setup to do with respect to the electronics and demonstratives. I don't know if the court's plan is to have Mr. Zangeneh finish today.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Kind of thinking, well, we've got to at least finish Mr. Zangeneh's cross before we break.
JUDGE HANKINSON: We'll see where we are then.
MR. ZANGENEH: I don't have much.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right, give me 10 minutes.
Audio muted.
MR. ZANGENEH: ...guy from the hood, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And his description was, like, super generic.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Like some Black guy with dreads from the hood.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is that a good lead?
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you believe that that's where he bought the gun?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's possible.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you think that it was more likely that he got it from another Latin King?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
MR. ZANGENEH: ...name. Luis — Luis Rivera rented the Prius on the July trip, yes?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: According to Luis Rivera, it was his gun that was used in the homicide, yes?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: The only hotel reservation you have for that trip was a room rented by Luis Rivera, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: One of the rooms.
MR. ZANGENEH: And then you have one rented by Chadrick Nobles, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: A gentleman that purportedly lives in his own car, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Someone that picks up drugs for other people, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes. And you don't know — did you do a search to see how many other nights Chadrick Nobles rented a motel in Tallahassee?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not — I did not personally.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right, you just went to that one night, right? That one night that he said, and you found that he stayed in a certain motel, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did Luis Rivera — did he mention pulling out a firearm on four people inside of a hotel in Seattle?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained. Earlier sustained objection to that, Mr. Zangeneh. Please don't try to go around my rulings, please.
MR. ZANGENEH: I didn't mean to, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Thank you.
MR. ZANGENEH: And once again, who's the only person that claims my client shot Dan Markel? Is that Luis Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: No further questions.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Might be a bit longer than that. Mr. DeCoste said he has several hours.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I don't know that we want to 8:15.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Y'all ready to go home?
JUDGE HANKINSON: I was hoping to get the State's case done today, but I don't think that's realistic. So we're going to break for the evening. Be back here at 8:45. Making progress — not as fast as I'd like, but we're making progress.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right? Have a good evening.
JUDGE HANKINSON: You — can be seated or step out. You can step out. — after Agent Sanford, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sir?
JUDGE HANKINSON: What further witnesses are you expecting after Mr. Cappleman?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I have the Dolce Vita witness, and then I was going to recall Investigator Isom for minimal purposes.
JUDGE HANKINSON: So you're going to do what on the Dolce Vita?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Call the person who was present for the Dolce Vita recording.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. So you're going to play that tape?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I don't think I'm going to play it in its entirety. I had considered playing a snippet of it just to give the jury an idea of what it is, what the problems are with it.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Any new demonstrative aids, if we're going to have them, let's give them to the defense tonight. We don't have to hear complaints about that tomorrow. What other issues do we need to deal with?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Uh, I don't think so, Judge. The clerk was inquiring as to whether or not Your Honor would like to mark the transcripts of the calls as court exhibits.
JUDGE HANKINSON: For the ones that sustained objections?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Uh, no, sir. These are the ones that were the transcripts that—
JUDGE HANKINSON: For which part of it? The wiretap?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir. That we're listening to.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Correct.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Yeah, they ought to be made part of the court file in some form.
JUDGE HANKINSON: If you want to mark them as court exhibits, that'll be fine.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That is all I can think of at the moment, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. From the defense.
MR. DECOSTE: Not a request. With respect to Wednesday, I was a little bit confused. My understanding is that the courthouse is closed.
JUDGE HANKINSON: No. I said Friday we're going to be in court. That's why I said it Friday. I was hoping everybody's listening. I just want to make sure, because when I talk to other people, they were telling me, you know, the courthouse is — I don't know. Better talk to me. All right, that's why I'm bringing it up. That's why I said Friday. If anybody else is confused — so, that's why I brought it up Friday. Everybody be on notice. Is there anything else?
MR. ZANGENEH: If that concludes their testimony tomorrow — let's say both sides, Wednesday afternoon — will we go right into closing? Will you give us some time to prepare our closing?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You're asking me to hypothesize a whole lot. It kind of depends.
MR. ZANGENEH: Sure.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Um, kind of might depend on how much time I thought we'd been wasting.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Um, anyway, we'll see. I can't give you an answer.
MR. DECOSTE: One question along the way — is there an idea of how long you're going to give for each party to close?
JUDGE HANKINSON: I anticipate that it would probably be along the same timeframe as what we needed for voir dire. Of course, voir dire went a lot quicker, but I would imagine an hour and a half to two hours to close. I mean, we can discuss that now if you desire.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I was going to ask y'all at some point in time — I guess now is as good a time as any — how long does the State think they need for closing?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Two hours would be more than sufficient for the State for both parts. I mean—
JUDGE HANKINSON: I think anybody talks two hours, they'll be talking to themselves. But if y'all want two hours each, that's up to you. Good lawyers know not to put the jury to sleep. But you want — each of you want two hours?
JUDGE HANKINSON: As a cap.
MR. DECOSTE: As a cap. I don't expect—
MR. ZANGENEH: I'll take a two hour cap I would say an hour and a half just speaking for me.
JUDGE HANKINSON: A good lawyer's not going to talk more than an hour. But anyway.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: We don't have any of them here.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Yeah, you just need to keep in mind what the jury can absorb. That's maybe an hour and a half.
JUDGE HANKINSON: But okay with an hour and a half?
MR. DECOSTE: All right, I'd still ask for two. I've outlined it.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay, I thought you were saying you didn't want that long.
MR. DECOSTE: I would like to have the comfort if it needs to go that long, just if I need to play things. I don't know what else the State's going to move in. I don't know — I'm just saying, I don't know what's going to move in. I don't know how my case in chief is going to go. As I did with Your Honor from voir dire, we gave an hour 45. I think I was far less than that on mine, and it got shorter and shorter and shorter. I wanted to be sure. But if I could play out some exhibits, it could eat up some of my time. But I can give Your Honor the confidence that I would not talk longer than I need to, if that helps.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I'm going to get to the point — you want to give everybody two hours, we can do so. I hope you don't use it, but that's what you want, we'll do so. All right, anything else?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, can we just put Your Honor on notice that we have not yet received any mental health mitigation from Mr. Garcia's team? I know they're working on it, but I'm just letting you know, we're eager to get started on that.
JUDGE HANKINSON: The second day. Where do we stand on that? I know you had some issue with your expert.
MR. ZANGENEH: We did have a new expert appointed a week and a half ago. She's done multiple sessions and done these villages. I know that she'll make herself available for that position if the government wants to depose her.
MR. ZANGENEH: Absolutely. Let me know whenever you guys want to depose her, and I'll make the decision.
JUDGE HANKINSON: There's not going to be a lot of time between the end of the case and the penalty phase.
MR. ZANGENEH: Correct. What I believe, and my understanding is, even with the ASA that's handling it, it's not one of the members that are actively participating in the trial. Well, at least this portion of it. So let me know whenever he's available, when he wants to depose her. I know that she's available.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Anything else?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, sir.
JUDGE HANKINSON: See you all in the morning at 8:30.