3.Patrick Sanford — Direct/Cross/Voir Dire
4,745 linesMS. CAPPLEMAN: State calls Pat Sanford.
(witness exits.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: If you'd face the clerk and be sworn, please.
whereupon, PATRICK SANFORD was called as a witness, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sir, please introduce yourself and spell your name.
PATRICK SANFORD: Special Agent Patrick Sanford, P-A-T-R-I-C-K, S-A-N-F-O-R-D.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How are you employed?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm a special agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How long have you been so employed?
PATRICK SANFORD: A little over 20 years.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And were you involved in the investigation regarding the death of Dan Markel?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what was your role in reference to that investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: Starting out, I was just assisting with covering leads, chasing down out-of-town leads, and then became a partner and co-case -- co-investigator on the case. I was the FBI's lead investigator, eventually.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So, originally, you were assisting. who were you assisting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Tallahassee Police Department.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And, eventually, you kind of became equal partners with, I guess, Detective Isom with the Tallahassee Police Department?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was it unusual -- is there anything unusual about the FBI assisting local law enforcement?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. That's part of our duties.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Can you talk a little bit about what, if any, efforts you made to identify any connection between Luis Rivera and Charlie Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. we started out -- once we identified Mr. Rivera, I did a thorough, extensive background, I should say, on all of his, his past history, where his -- former addresses that he lived at, former phone numbers that he had.
Once we did that -- we already had all the phone numbers for Mr. Adelson, and we compared all those numbers to try to cross-reference and scrub, basically, is what we call it, scrubbing our databases to see if there's any links whatsoever between the two of them, any phone calls, any way they would have crossed paths or anything like that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And with what result?
PATRICK SANFORD: There was negative results. There was no contacts whatsoever between the two of them.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Are you familiar with the federal RICO investigation that included a wiretap on Mr. Rivera's phone?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And that was a separate investigation from the murder investigation, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. That was conducted down in Miami.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. But since you had a wiretap on Mr. Rivera's phone, was that something that was looked at to see were there any communications on that wiretap which suggested that Mr. Rivera was in communication with Mr. Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did. we -- I communicated with the agents down in South Florida and had them scrub their databases for any communications with Mr. Adelson. Also, just compared any communications that they had with his codefendants, also, and tried to compare with any of our phone numbers that we had.
we also took the phone number subscriber list, basically, from their case. They provided it to me, and I provided it to TPD to compare with all of the phone numbers that we had involving this case.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And I want to talk about Mr. Rivera's proffer in a moment. Were you present for some meetings with Mr. Rivera --
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- before a Court?
Okay. But -- I apologize for jumping around a little bit. First, I want to approach with State's 85 and 86. Did you have contact with a witness by the name of Shoddrick Nobles?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And as part of that contact, was Mr. Nobles presented with some photographic lineups containing photos of both Sigfredo Garcia and Luis Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And I want you to take a look at those exhibits and see if those are the actual lineups that were shown to the witness, Mr. Nobles.
(Pause. )
PATRICK SANFORD: That one was of Mr. Rivera.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If you'll just leave them out, because I'm going to publish them.
Judge, may we have the screen down?
JUDGE HANKINSON: I don't Know how to do it. I'm afraid to touch that thing.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: We will --
JUDGE HANKINSON: If you move it wrong, it starts flashing disconnected, and I'm not going to be responsible for that.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what about State's 86?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. That's the one of Mr. Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time I'd ask to move into evidence State's 85 and 86.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection?
MR. ZANGENEH: No, Judge.
MR. DECOSTE: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: They'll be admitted.
(State's Exhibit Nos. 85 and 86 received in evidence.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May I publish?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Could you please describe the procedure for showing a lineup to a witness, as was done in this case with Mr. Nobles?
PATRICK SANFORD: we just provided him each one of the photographs individually and told him that the subject that he was talking about may or may not be in this photo lineup. Showed him one picture at a time and then turned the photo over and let him see the next photo.
(State's Exhibit No. 85 is published.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was Mr. Nobles able to identify anyone in this lineup?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. He identified Mr. Rivera.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And Mr. Rivera was No. 3 in the lineup?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. He also initialed the bottom of the picture.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Go back to that. All right. So these are Mr. Nobles’ initials indicating that's one of the suspects he identified?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And what about in reference to Mr. Garcia? was the same procedure used there?
PATRICK SANFORD: That is correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was Mr. Nobles able to identify Mr. Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is this Mr. Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Mr. Nobles’ initials?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: These are the other subjects in the lineup? Is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
(Pause. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. You mentioned being present at Mr. Rivera's proffer. Were you present at the 9/30, September 30th, 2016, meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who else was present at that meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Investigator Isom, Mr. Rivera, Mr. Rivera's attorney, Mr. Collins.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: which Mr. Collins? we've got a couple of those. If you know.
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe it was the older one.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. David Collins?
PATRICK SANFORD: David Collins, correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And do you have any recollection of a procedure where information was passing back and forth between the -- Mr. Rivera and law enforcement through the lawyer, Mr. Collins?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry. Can you repeat that question?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you have any recollection of a procedure that was used at that meeting whereby information was traveling from law enforcement, back and forth to Mr. Rivera, with the lawyer being used as a go-between?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So what was the procedure at the meeting that you were present for?
PATRICK SANFORD: we just sat down to do an interview with him and just asked him to, basically, tell us what happened. It was, basically, a fact-finding mission for us.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And during the meeting that you were present at -- so you directly had contact with Mr. Rivera at the first meeting you were present at.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And were you permitted to ask Mr. Rivera questions?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we were.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And can you describe for the jury a little bit about what types of questions you would ask in a proffer like that?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's basically very open-ended questions to -- we're trying to gauge his truthfulness. So we ask him, basically, you know, what happened, where were you, who told you, things like that. So it was very open-ended. we don't want to feed him information. we don't want him to -- we don't want to lead him at all and don't want him to know what we know. That way we can verify whether he's telling us the truth or not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And during the time that you were present at the meeting on 9/30 of '16, did anybody, in your presence, feed Mr. Rivera any information or try to lead or correct Mr. Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: Absolutely not. It was, actually, the opposite.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was there specifically some things that Mr. Rivera was not correct about?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: One thing was where he talked about getting a ticket. we knew he had a ticket on the way up, the, the first trip. He, he told us that he got a ticket on the second trip in the Toyota Prius, which we knew was not correct. But it was his memory, and that's what we want him to do is tell us what he remembers, not what, not what we know what happened. we want him to tell us what he thinks.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So you didn't make any effort to correct him, for fear that it would be like you're trying to shape his testimony.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And did you also participate in the ride around Tallahassee that was done that same day, where Mr. Rivera was pointing out different routes that they took when they were up here?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. what do you remember about that?
PATRICK SANFORD: we basically did the same thing. we let him tell us where to go, tried to let him remember certain things and landmarks to tell us which way to go, which way to end up, things like that. So we just sat back and kind of let him tell us what, what he did on those days and how he knew that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And as part of that, did you ride around the area of the crime scene, and he pointed out some parks near the crime scene, that sort of thing?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And then later, there was another ride around -- or more than one ride around looking for the gun, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. But that was not done on the 9/30/16 date?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. I don't believe so.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And then did you also participate in a recorded interview with Mr. Rivera on October 4th of 2016?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And what was the procedure used in that interview? was it any different from the way you handled the 9/30/16 interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. Basically the same thing. we let him tell us what happened.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was Mr. Rivera fed or led with information at all by any parties at that 10/4/16 meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Absolutely not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was Mr. Rivera's testimony inconsistent in some way from the 10/4/16 -- at the 10/4/16 from the 9/30/16?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. It was very consistent.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you learn anything new -- I mean, this proffer is done, what, two years after the murder.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: More than two years.
PATRICK SANFORD: A little over.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was there anything new that you learned from Mr. Rivera that law enforcement had not already known or was able to corroborate independently from the information you already had?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: One was where he told us a story about how the gun went off. Mr. Garcia had the gun go off in the vehicle and shot through the vehicle and actually disabled the gas line on the vehicle.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So that was something you had not known previously?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. We had information the car broke down, but we didn't know why it broke down.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And as a result, was law enforcement sent out to see if, in fact, there was a hole in the floorboard of the Prius?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And there was.
PATRICK SANFORD: There was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Anything else? what about following Mr. Markel to day care, to the day care on the day of the homicide? Did you know about that already?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. We, we -- the only thing we did know is there was a -- there was what appeared to be a green Prius behind him on some bank surveillance footage. That was the only thing that we -- that I had at the time that indicated they followed him to the day care.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: But at the time were -- was law enforcement aware of a witness by the name of Keith Leland at the day care, who actually saw a green Prius following him?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. I was not aware of him.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And what about the stapled money?
PATRICK SANFORD: He told us about the money that he received for the, for the actual committing the crime was stapled. And we didn't have any indication of that from anybody at that point.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was there anything of significance to you at that time that you first heard that about the stapling?
PATRICK SANFORD: Anything significant about it?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I mean, did you -- was the witness, June Umchinda -- had that witness been developed at the time Mr. Rivera gave his statement?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. She had not been.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So at the time that Mr. Rivera told you his money was stapled, you didn't know that Mr. Adelson makes a practice of stapling his money.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. That was new information to us.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I want to ask you about the efforts to look for the gun. We've touched on that. what, what role did you have in the efforts to try to locate the murder weapon in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: we took Mr. Rivera out of the jail and drove him down the route that we -- that he had taken on the way back. we took him down there twice looking for the gun and finally found a bridge that he believed looked very similar and he thought was probably the bridge. After that, I assembled a team of what we call Evidence Response Team members out of the Tamp --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: where was that bridge?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was in Tampa, outside of Tampa.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: I, I requested assistance from our Tampa division, from their Evidence Response Team. When we went to that location, it was off the I-75, right at the river. We went down and cleared all the brush, used Weed Eaters, trimmers, and metal detectors, and looked all through the brush. Didn't find it that day.
Came back -- I came back with a dive team after that, because there was water further away from the road where the gun could have made it to the river. So I came back with a dive team that we, that we have out of our Miami division, brought them there. we did a cordoned off, basically, good search in the river.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And how much time had passed between the time that, according to Mr. Rivera, the gun was deposited there and the time that you were looking for it?
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, over two years.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: A little over.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And did you find the gun?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, we did not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And this location that you spent a lot of time looking at, was that -- was it like Mr. Rivera took you right there, or was there some confusion about exactly where it could have been?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. There was confusion. The first trip down, he, he saw several bridges that were, that were similar, but he wasn't quite sure that we -- and that one, he thought was right at -- the first trip, that particular river, he thought was one that preceded the one he threw it off on. He kept looking for the next one, the next one. So he wasn't real sure the first trip.
we went back the second time and he looked at the guardrails. There might have been some changes to the location since he threw it over, like the guardrail might be missing now. But there was definitely some confusion. He wasn't positive.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You said since he threw it out. who's the "he" in that sentence?
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, sorry. Since Mr. Garcia --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- threw it over.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So Rivera was never inconsistent about who threw the gun?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he was not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: we've learned about a black Lexus that Ms. Magbanua was driving. Do you have any knowledge of that black Lexus?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you tell us about the surveillance efforts that were made on Ms. Magbanua around the time of -- I have it November of '15 to May of '15?
PATRICK SANFORD: we have, like --
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, hearsay.
JUDGE HANKINSON: well, let's hear the question. Let's ask a little more specific question, Ms. Cappleman.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what surveillance efforts were being made on Katherine Magbanua between November '15 and May of ‘15?
JUDGE HANKINSON: well, I'll sustain to the effect -- to the extent he's reporting what somebody else has told him.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Do you have any personal observations that occurred during that time?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Could you tell us about those, please?
PATRICK SANFORD: we had video surveillance on her residence at that time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And that's something that you reviewed?
PATRICK SANFORD: It is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was Ms. Magbanua observed during that time frame driving the black Lexus?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, she was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And was Ms. Magbanua driving the black Lexus at the time of her --
MR. DECOSTE: Object --
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- arrest?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, best evidence, improper opinion.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was Ms. Magbanua driving the black Lexus at the time of her arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, she was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. I want to talk about the undercover operation or what's been referred to as the bump. I want to draw your attention to April 19th, 2016. Could you just briefly explain for the jury the investigative strategy for doing this type of undercover operation?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure. We had good evidence that -- on who committed the, the crime. we also had good evidence on --
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, improper characterization of the evidence.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was the purpose of the investigation -- or the undercover operation to evidence who's involved in the conspiracy and what each role, each's -- each person's role in the conspiracy?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And -- so could you just kind of tell the jury what the idea was, how it was going to go down?
PATRICK SANFORD: we, we wanted to bring an undercover in who pretended to be a gang member who was an associate of Mr. Rivera. We knew that Mr. Rivera was in jail. we knew that Mr. Rivera was having financial issues. And we wanted to insert somebody into the equation to get people talking, again, because it had been over a year since the crime was committed, and we knew that they probably weren't talking about it anymore.
So we wanted to try to gather evidence on who was actually responsible for creating the crime and, and committing the crime. So we wanted to insert that information in there and have them start talking and communicating, again.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what was the undercover supposed to do?
PATRICK SANFORD: He was supposed to approach Ms., Ms. Adelson and provide her with a flyer, basically, that just had information about the murder. It was basically a news article and just basically tell her that he, you know, that he was friends with who he called Tato, which was Mr. Rivera, and that he knew everything and that he wanted her to help him out financially. He was hurting financially and wanted her to -- wanted the family to help him out financially.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: were you present during this, what we're calling the bump, the contact between the undercover and Ms. Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Did you see the flier that the undercover handed to Ms. Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Could you describe it for the jury, please?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, hearsay, best evidence.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
PATRICK SANFORD: It was a news article that we printed out off the Internet and then --
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did it have a photograph of Mr. Markel?
PATRICK SANFORD: It did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And what else? was there anything handwritten on the, on the news article?
PATRICK SANFORD: There was. We wrote the number $5,000 and a phone number of the undercover agent.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you have that phone number with you? If you could tell it to us.
PATRICK SANFORD: Ido. It's (305)712-6570, I believe.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was that going to be a number that law enforcement would monitor if anyone called it?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: It was an FBI number that we had established.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And we have already watched the video of the bump itself. Were you able to listen in real time, as law enforcement, to the calls that succeeded that interaction between the undercover and Ms. Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And I want to draw your attention to State's Exhibit 138. Have you had an opportunity to review the disk, State's 138?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does State's 138 contain fair and accurate calls that were captured on that wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: It does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time I'd ask to move into evidence State's 138.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Subject to my prior ruling.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Is there any additional objection?
MR. ZANGENEH: No objection.
MR. DECOSTE: Nothing additional, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right.
(State's Exhibit No. 138 received in evidence.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So who calls who, who calls who first? I guess we give the note to Donna. what does she do?
PATRICK SANFORD: She immediately stuffs it in her, in her pouch without looking at it and goes across the street, retrieves the -- her grandkids, and then goes back to her condominium. Shortly thereafter, I think a few minutes after walking back to her condo, she calls Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And when you say she retrieves her grandkids, are those Mr. Markel's two sons?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So she was retrieving them from where?
PATRICK SANFORD: From school, which is directly across the street from her condominium.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And then returned to her condominium and talked to Mr. Adelson. when she talked to Charlie Adelson, did -- we watched the video, as I mentioned, and we see where the undercover says the name Katie. You're taking care of Katie and Tuto, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when Ms. Adelson talks to Charlie Adelson, does she say the name Katie --
MR. DECOSTE: Objection.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- to Charlie?
MR. DECOSTE: Object --
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Does -- okay. who does Charlie call after he talks to his mother?
PATRICK SANFORD: He calls Katie Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And is that State's Exhi -- I want to, at this time, publish call No. D.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If I could get some assistance with that.
Permission to hand out the transcripts for call D, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may. Let me give them an instruction, though, first.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Hold on. Hold on.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Hold on a second.
MS. NORRIS: Yes, Sir.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I'm sorry? Do you need a break? Do you need a break? All right. we'll take 15 minutes.
(Jury exits.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: I'm sorry. I kind of lost track of time. Either side need anything?
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor. Real brief. It seems like the appropriate time to do it. In the event that the Government is going to ask this witness for any opinions about any of these phone calls, we would object. we would have a standing objection to improper opinion.
JUDGE HANKINSON: You'll just have to object as it occurs. I'm not sure what that would apply to. I am -- I do intend to give the jury the instruction on transcripts. I assume the defense would seek that.
MS. KAWASS: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, Judge, respectfully.
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Use the standard instruction.
we'll be in recess 15 minutes.
(Brief recess.)
BAILIFF: All rise. Come to order. Court is back in session.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's have a jury, please.
(Jury enters.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: Everybody be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (cont)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Agent Sanford, we were about to publish call D. Could you tell us the date and time and who it is that we're going to hear speaking?
PATRICK SANFORD: The date is 4/19 of 2016, at 4:27 p.m. in the afternoon. It's between Charlie and Katie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who is calling who?
PATRICK SANFORD: Mr. Adelson is calling Ms. Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Go ahead.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Do you want the used transcripts at this point in time?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, please.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Let me give you an instruction. You're about to hear some recorded conversations. These recorded conversations are proper evidence, and you may consider them just as any other evidence. You are also being furnished transcripts of the recorded conversations. The recordings are the evidence, and the transcripts are provided to you only as a guide to help you follow as you listen to the recordings. The transcripts are not evidence of what was actually said or who said it. If you notice any difference between what you hear on the recordings and what you read in the transcripts, you must rely on what you hear. Not what you read.
You may use the transcripts, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you.
(Pause. )
(State's Exhibit No. 138-D is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, what's going on?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Not much.
AUDIO RECORDING: Are you someplace you can talk to me?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Say what?
AUDIO RECORDING: Are you anyplace that you can talk to me?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Let's talk now.
AUDIO RECORDING: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Let's talk right now. Let's talk.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Can you go somewhere where it's not loud while I'm talking to you?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I can't. This is, like, loud, but I can't get out.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I'm going -- I'm trying to walk outside to talk to you. Now, I can't even fucking get outside.
All right. Let me -- all right. Somebody -- hang on. Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: Can you hear me okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I can hear.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I just want, I just want you to listen to me, and I'll be able to talk to you in person when I see you tomorrow.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Because I don't know what's going on.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: But my mom walked the kids -- evidently -- I only heard part of the story --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and I'm going to go down there and talk to her tomorrow to find out what's going on.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: She didn't want to elaborate.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: But she said that someone approached her on the street --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- called her by name.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: Handed her an envelope with something in it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: And somebody was -- she wouldn't -- really wouldn't go into detail. And, listen, I don't -- I have no idea what this is in reference to.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: Something regarding her son, something regarding his ex-girlfriend, and the person asking my mom for some money.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. So I said -- you know, I'm like -- first, when she was saying it, I thought it was, like, something involving the IRS or a patient suing --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- or something like that. So I don't even know what the fuck it's about at all.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So somebody just, like, bumped into your mom like that?
AUDIO RECORDING: well, they came up to her on the street after she --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- dropped the kids off at school.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: I guess she brought them to school. I don't even know. But they must know her routine and must know who she is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- because they walked up to her --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- they called her by name.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: They gave her an envelope.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: She said they spoke to her for a few minutes.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then she said there was, you know, they were making reference to my ex-girlfriend, which I have no fucking clue what that's about.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: And that they explained that they needed to be paid some money.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: For what?
AUDIO RECORDING: I, I don't even know. My mom didn't even want to talk to me on the phone. But what I'm just --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But, like, she -- did the person -- was she, like -- she should have --
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, yeah. I --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- called the cops or something.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I -- that's what I said. I said someone's going to try to blackmail you or something or --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly. or --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- frighten you.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- scaring you like that.
AUDIO RECORDING: I said you got to go straight to the police. She's like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I don't even know what this is about. I don't, I don't want to talk about it. I go, well, take a picture and send me what it is. She was like, I just want to see you in person. So --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I'm going to go down -- I can't even fucking go there today, because I won't get out of work till ten o'clock at night.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: So she's like, just come down --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Is somebody, like, stalking your mom?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't, I don't even fucking know. I don't know what --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- what's going on, what my mom's involve -- you didn't do anything with my mom. I mean, yes --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: who said I did anything with your mom?
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Just checking. Just checking.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know what you --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. But, I mean --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- who knows?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- be there for your mom. Like, what the hell?
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, I don't know what --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Just some random person, like, just going up to your mom, like, hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. And my mom said it involved your ex-girlfriend. So I don't even, I don't even think she said who. I'm just, like, you're my last girlfriend, so that's why I'm calling you.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what, what would they want from her?
AUDIO RECORDING: I, I have no idea. So, anyway, I'm going to find out -- well, they wanted money.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I Know. Exactly. Did she tell you, like, what --
AUDIO RECORDING: No. No. She was just --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (indiscernible) really?
AUDIO RECORDING: -- kind of like a little bit of rattled and with the kids and was like, listen, just -- I actually had the day off tomorrow. So she's like, come down and I -- and talk to me. So I'm going down tomorrow to talk to her. And then I -- I don't remember if it had anything to do with you. If they're mentioning you or any reference to you, I'll keep you posted.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: why does it have to be me?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You have, like, a thousand ex-girlfriends.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, fuck. It could be anyone. So I just assumed that it could be --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: But, anyway, it doesn't, it doesn't even matter. So I may want to see you tomorrow if it does have anything to do with you. If it doesn't, then I feel like a fucking idiot for even bothering -- wasting your time. But if it does --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I mean, I kind of feel bad for your mom. Like, who the hell -- if that was me Cindiscernible), I would be like --
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- why are you threatening me?
AUDIO RECORDING: I said, I said, Mom, was the guy wearing a hat, glasses? Mom was like, no. I could pick the person in a lineup in a second. They came over to me. They spoke to me very politely. They had -- it was a white male in his thirties, no hat, no glasses. Justa white male in his thirties came up to her, knew who she was, and addressed her.
But, anyway, it's neither here nor there. 1I'11 feel like an idiot if it was some other ex. But, anyway.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Did you have any fight with any other of your exes or something like that?
AUDIO RECORDING: TI don't know. TI mean, maybe I should just be calling everybody today.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. You should try to find out.
AUDIO RECORDING: I thought when I spoke to my mom she said it involv -- it mentioned your name in it. That's why I was calling you. But I'm going to feel like an idiot if they didn't. But, anyway, are you working tomorrow? what's the story?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. But you can always stop by over there. It doesn't matter.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. What time do you finish work?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Thank you. All right. Let me know.
AUDIO RECORDING: what time do you finish work tomorrow?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, it doesn't matter. well, like I -- I told him, like, I needed to leave between, like, 9:30 to...
Do you want me to get up?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: what, what --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Anytime between 9:30 to, like, 3:00ish, 4:00ish. It depends --
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I'm going --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- however it is. Like, today I was, like, super, like, crazy.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I got to get back in there. I'm going to be in Miami. And when I'm done hanging out down there, I'm going to come and --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- see you. Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. I'm, like, right there, as well.
AUDIO RECORDING: So figure somewhere around 4:00ish I'll see you.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. No worries, kiddo.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Have a good day. I'll talk to you later.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You, too. Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-D concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Mr. Adelson mentions on there that maybe he should just start calling all of his ex-girlfriends. Did he --
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, asked and answered.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- call any other ex-girlfriends?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did he call any other ex-girlfriends?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he did not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Did he or Donna Adelson call the police to report this incident that occurred with her on the street?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, they did not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: To whom is the next call, call E?
PATRICK SANFORD: It is a -- call E is Katie calls Charlie back.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: At what time?
PATRICK SANFORD: At 6:07 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So about an hour and a half after the call we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is this still in the same day that the bump occurred?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Permission to publish State -- call No. E and use the transcript.
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Could I just have -- do you want me to collect the transcripts as we go, Judge, or collect them at the end?
JUDGE HANKINSON: It may get a little confused if we leave them there.
Does the defense want them to have the transcript for any reason for cross?
(off-the-record discussion.)
MR. ZANGENEH: Judge, I'll leave it at the discretion of the Court.
JUDGE HANKINSON: No. I'm going to collect them unless you want them there for cross for some purpose.
MR. ZANGENEH: Judge, I would -- no, Judge. That's fine. You can collect them.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Let's collect them because it's going to get --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Just pass them down this way.
JUDGE HANKINSON: -- confused.
And while they're doing that, let me make a comment to the jury. By and large, you will have with you during your deliberations evidence to review and consider more carefully. You will not have what we call demonstrative aids, which would include the transcripts. So you won't have those during your deliberations.
You may proceed.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-E is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. What's up?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hey. So is everything okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I mean, I haven't heard or said anything since I spoke to you. I was just down here in Lauderhill.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Are you working hard today?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Remember that Haitian of fice?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I'm there.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Are you there till late?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I won't be out of here till fucking ten o'clock at night.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. I just -- like, I'm scared. Like, your mom must be, like, freaking out and shit.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, somebody fucking framed her. Like, hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, someone literally, like, walked up to her on the street in South Beach --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- called her by name, handed her something. She was, like, so shaken up, she really didn't want to talk to me on the phone.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: And she like -- she said --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But didn't, didn't she, like, tell your dad, so, like, they can call the cops or something?
AUDIO RECORDING: No. That's why she wants to talk to me and, you know, and then we may have to call the police. But she's going to talk to me, first. I don't want to do anything just yet. But see -- you know, I mean, probably -- that's probably the appropriate thing to do. I mean, there's sick people that come out of the woodwork that try to make claims, I mean, fuck, it's -- I, I don't know what -- I don't even --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, somebody is threatening your mom in broad daylight --
AUDIO RECORDING: Literally --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- handing her an envelope, and asking her to --
AUDIO RECORDING: Literally --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- give them money. Like, what the fuck is that?
AUDIO RECORDING: She didn't even go into all the details. She -- and I'm pretty sure the person that was saying that -- I thought she said your name. That's why I called you up. If it didn't mention your name --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what does it have to do with me?
AUDIO RECORDING: TI don't fucking know. And I said -- they said, like, there's something about me and ex-girlfriend, whatever. So I thought -- it's funny. I --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Are you having any problems with any of your ex-girlfriends that's, like, maybe trying to sabotage you?
AUDIO RECORDING: whitney's still crazy as a fucking loon. But that's never changed. But I'm 99 percent sure when I was talking to her, she said, she said it's -- mentioned your name. And if I'm mistaken, then I feel like the biggest fool in town. But...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But, like, what? Like, my name iS on a paper?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't -- trust me. I'm going to see what it says when I go down there tomorrow. And she was just shaken up and she wanted me to talk to her to find out, like -- I mean, I don't know. All I do is work all the time so I don't --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. It's kind of crazy.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's weird. At first, when she was talking to me, I'm like, was it -- did I get sued from someone from the dental office? She's like, no. I'm like -- she's like, I want to talk to you. I'm like, well, was it the IRS? And she's like, no. I'm like, did a patient write something stupid on Yelp? She's like, no.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. But how do they know your mom's name? Like, that's weird.
AUDIO RECORDING: Know her name and knew who she was, and walked right up to her. She said the person wasn't threatening. They were very polite, a white male in his thirties. She said she'll remember their face for the rest of her life and made some very crazy accusations and very crazy demands. And I was like, what the fuck is this about?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So she -- she just, like, that person just started demanding things from her?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't even know. She didn't go into that many details. She just kind of told me that. I thought she'd mentioned your name, but, again, I may be mistaken, until I go talk to her and see what, see what they wrote. And then the kids were in the background. They were making noise. So I'm like, all right. I'm coming down tomorrow.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Your mom said to talk to me?
AUDIO RECORDING: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Your mom said to talk to me?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no, no. I'm going to go down. I said my -- the kids were in her background, not your kids.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I was like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm like, oh, no.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I'm like, no. I'm just going to go -- no, my mom's -- I mean, my mom wants talk to me. I think she's -- who knows? I mean, if I hear -- if it was another girl's name and not your name, I'm going to feel like an idiot. But I, for some reason, I thought --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Like, I have no problem with you, whatsoever.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: SO...
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, yeah. I'm just -- that's why I'm very --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Unless, like I'm saying, maybe you have a crazy ex-girlfriend that's like --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. No. Who goes to someone's parents? Like, dude, if someone has a problem with me, that's, that's the only --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'll talk to your mom, but the odd thing that keeps running through my head is that, obviously -- you know, I think it's just some psycho from the newspaper looking people up, because the only reason is this, is that if it had anything that come from me or involved me, it would come to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- whoever it is would have come to me. You know what I'm saying?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. But, like, that's harassment to your, your mom --
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, yeah. I mean --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- like, okay? That's, like, not cool --
AUDIO RECORDING: Sure. This kind of thing --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, that's a fucking -- the person would have been like, who the fuck are you? why are you giving me the piece of paper?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Trust me. I --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- like I said, well, I wish I knew more, but the kids were in the background. It's like she couldn't even talk to me. And I said, all right. I'm coming down tomorrow. I'm going to have her make a copy of the paper, and I'm going to take a look at it. And TI don't know if it --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. But it's kind of like -- you shouldn't let something like that linger. Like, 1s she going to be ina safe place, like...
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, no, no. They have very safe building. I mean, the person came up with her on the street. Like, the person --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. But --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- whoever it was --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- you don't know how crazy it is. Like, he --
AUDIO RECORDING: Whoever it was --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- fucking crazy people out there.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I know. You're south of Fifth. It's not like you're in the fucking -- I mean, south of Fifth is on lockdown. There's cops on every other street south of Fifth. There's cops they just keep south of Fifth sitting there. So it just is crazy that somebody would just walk -- someone who knew who she was --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- knew where she'd be, at what time she'd be there --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what I -- that's why I'm afraid.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and addressed her by name.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, hello. Like, how can it be that -- like, things like that is stuff they use off of --
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, that's the thing --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- fucking TV. Like, that's why I'm scared. That's why I'm, like, calling you back because it's like, shit, it's --
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, that's how I know --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- yeah, you have a safe place but --
AUDIO RECORDING: Katie -- yeah, I know but -- Katie, if someone wants to find you, they find you. It doesn't matter who you are or where you are, unless you're the president of the United States. If they want you, they get you. Like, my point is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I Know. But why do they threaten your mom --
AUDIO RECORDING: TI don't --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- about anything?
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I don't know what exactly they threatened. I think it's more of a demand. So what, what I'm saying is I don't know and I'm going to find out tomorrow. I thought my mom said that the letter had mentioned your name. But the, the weird -- this is the weird thing that keeps running through my head.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: It mentions your name. And, obviously, you're my, my ex. Why wouldn't the person just come find me and talk to me? I'm easy to find. Like, come find me, come talk to me. why, why deal with my mom if it involves one of my exes? Like, I don't even know why she fits into anywhere in all this. This -- the whole thing, the whole thing is very, very odd.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. I don't think that anybody's going to talk about me. Like, I'm, like, your hundredth ex --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. You're, like, 85.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You've gone out with probably every Katie in the world.
AUDIO RECORDING: No. And, like I said, if it -- if the le -- I haven't seen the letter. If it didn't mention your name, it mentioned some other chick's name, then I, like -- I just feel stupider.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Well, you're scaring me now. Like, what the fuck? Like --
AUDIO RECORDING: I know --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- I don't want some random person coming up to me.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, of course. And I've got, like, 10,000 exes and baby mamas.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: And baby mama's mamas.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You know?
AUDIO RECORDING: So if this is one of my baby mamas --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. And I'm like -- yeah. But it's like that's -- for somebody to come up to your mom like that and like --
AUDIO RECORDING: well, it's odd.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: In broad daylight, that's scary.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Anytime a stranger does that, that's scary. And hands me an envelope. So -- hang on one second. I got to sign something.
where am I signing?
AUDIO RECORDING: This check to
(inaudible.)
AUDIO RECORDING: That's the first bonus of frustration. That's what it was, right?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I mean, you should try to -- go ahead.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Anyway, I just was going to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I mean, you could try --
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- you shouldn't -- you should try to, like, talk to your mom. Make sure that she's okay. I mean, that's hard for her --
AUDIO RECORDING: She's fine. She was just startled.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You should go tonight.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's hard to get her on the phone because of the kids. That's why I'd rather just talk to her in person. So I'm going to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. That's what I'm saying, like, you should try to talk to her tonight. Like --
AUDIO RECORDING: Sometimes --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- head out there soon --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- sometimes it's hard to talk to her on the phone because of the kids.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. I know --
AUDIO RECORDING: I'd rather --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- not on the phone. Talk to her -- go see her. Like, that's your mom.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know. But I'm not going to get down there till 11 o'clock. And then my dad's going to -- you know, I don't even know if she wants to say anything to my dad, because she doesn't want to upset my dad.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's, that's, that's why she wants to talk to me to see what -- and I'm curious as hell. I have no idea what anything could involve, you or any other ex or what it's involved. Part of me wants to go down there, and other part's like, she doesn't want to say anything to my dad. She wants to, like, ask me if I know of anything or if anything's -- you Know, probably to pick my brain, first, and then talk to my dad. But I'll see. If it, if it did mention your name, I'll let you know. If it didn't mention your name, then I'll try to find out which one of my other 87 exes it could be. You know, if I call --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: TI haven't had anything to do with you. I have a very good relationship with you. SO...
AUDIO RECORDING: It's not, it's not that. I just don't want to -- I hope --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm like --
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm that person. I1'11 keep you in the loop, if you're in the loop. If you're not in the loop, you're not in the loop. So if it mentions your name --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- when I see you, I'll tell you.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: will you start calling every ex you have?
AUDIO RECORDING: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: will you start calling every ex you have because --
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. I'm going to be on the phone for, like, three days. Listen.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: If it mentions your name -- I'm slammed here at the office. If it mentions your name, I'll come see you tomorrow and show you what it says. If it doesn't, I'll probably show you what it says anyway and pick your brain, because you're, like, one of my best friends. So no worries. I -- at least it's not the IRS or the, or...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Is it because I work for you?
AUDIO RECORDING: I have no -- I got no fucking clue. I mean, I think, I think the thing is just someone looking for money. There are a lot of fucking whack jobs out there. Let me, let me call you back, because I'm still at the office. But --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I'll definitely, after I see what it is, if it has anything to do with you, then I will definitely --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, what --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- reach out to you tomorrow.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- does it have to do with me? Like, oh, my God, you're scaring me.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, what the fuck?
AUDIO RECORDING: Listen, obviously, you know, if it was a police matter, the police would come knocking on my door, I'd talk to them and help them out with whatever I could. If it's a fucking lunatic, then we deal with lunatics different ways.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm supposed to get, like employee of the month. what the fuck --
AUDIO RECORDING: Stop it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- did I do wrong?
AUDIO RECORDING: Stop it. Just make sure you call those patients that I gave you the list from the other day. I got to go.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I did. TI always --
AUDIO RECORDING: You got it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- do.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I got to go.
AUDIO RECORDING: Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-E concludes. )
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, may we approach?
(Sidebar discussion held as follows):
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, I wanted to see if you would reconsider your ruling regarding questioning this witness as to whether or not Donna did in fact say Katherine Magbanua’s name to Charlie. I don't think it's hearsay. It's offered to prove that Charlie, without being told the name, automatically called Katherine Magbanua.
JUDGE HANKINSON: well, I don't quite see the significance that you're...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Charlie's mother calls him and says, some thug approached me on the street and handed me a piece of paper trying to extort me and mentioned your ex-girlfriend. He says he's got 87 ex-girlfriends, and he only calls one of them. I think that's relevant.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I thought the name Katie was used in the conversation was my --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It was not. The undercover said it to Donna.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Right. That's what I'm talking --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Donna did not say it to --
JUDGE HANKINSON: -- about. The undercover said Katie, right?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Correct.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Donna did not say it to Charlie. So he's made that assumption by calling her at this point.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I'm not going to revisit my ruling.
(sidebar discussion concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. I'd like to move on to call F. what is the date and time of call F?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/20 of 2016 at 10:38 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So this is the next day.
PATRICK SANFORD: It is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who's calling whom?
PATRICK SANFORD: Charlie Adelson is calling Katie.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can I use the transcripts for call F?
JUDGE HANKINSON: (Nods head.)
(State's Exhibit No. 138-F is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hola. Como estas?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hola. Bien, bien.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Qué te pasa?
AUDIO RECORDING: Ay dios mio.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Carmen estado susia.
AUDIO RECORDING: Car -- muy susio zapatos.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Qué te pasa?
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I'm driving down to Miami at, like, 12:00 --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and hang out a little bit and then --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Indiscernible.)
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I'll give you a shout and we'll go grab a beer or something on the way back.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: A show -- ooh. It's right here. Sorry. I'm on the phone.
There's a lot of things around here.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. They got good food over there?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, yeah.
(Indiscernible). Charles in charge.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I'm thinking, I'm thinking I'll probably be heading back maybe 2:30, 3:00ish. what --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I mean --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- what's your availability? Like, what time can you not hang out after?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I will be available whenever you need me.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Not in any --
AUDIO RECORDING: So I'm going to head -- I was hoping to get out there around 2:30 or 3:00.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then if that's the case, I'll] be heading up at that time.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Awesome. I'll hit you up in a little bit then.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hey. You never heard anything about those...
AUDIO RECORDING: The guy from the Moorings?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. No. I've only called eight times. And I'll give you the number, too.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's okay. No worries.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I'm going to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I mean.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- anyways, so I'm going to take care of it, wherever you guys go. I just wanted that place, because I thought it would be the nicest.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. But that's just so weird that they haven't, like, even responded to you.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, this is the thing. It's the owner's cottage. That's not even available for rent.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: — Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: So what happens is the owner just keeps it so when he gets friends and he gets family, when he has guests, he just says, hey, stay at my cottage for free. And then because I've stayed there so long and I wanted to go times when the whole place has been booked, he let me rent that. The nice thing about it --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- is it's not like -- like, if you look on their website, they don't even -- I don't even think they have your spot. It's just his. So when --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- he's not using it, he'll rent it for, like, 380 a night, which --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- if you can be there for a day and a half, it's a fucking awesome deal, because everything else on the property is, like, 1200 a night.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's just stupid at that point.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: So that's, that's why. I mean, I, I called up but they did --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: There's one down the road. So what is it? It's only, like, 150 or 140 a night or 144 or something.
AUDIO RECORDING: Are you talking to me?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I didn't, I didn't hear what you said.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. Like, Smuggler's Cove.
AUDIO RECORDING: Smuggler's Cove?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. I guess where -- that's all the smuggling happens.
AUDIO RECORDING: Is that where -- now, are you going down with a bunch of people, or are you going down with him?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Well, it was, like, supposedly, for that. And then, if anything, like, he was going to go down, too. And I don't know. we're trying to figure it out because...
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I mean --
AUDIO RECORDING: Anything --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- Cindiscernible.)
AUDIO RECORDING: They've told -- it's never not -- they've never not come through, and I don't see it booked off. But they, they can't ever se -- give it out without his permission.
Now, first time I reached out to him, he was in Colorado. Then he was in New York --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: — Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and now he didn't respond. So yesterday -- I can just check again this afternoon and just be like, hey, did you hear anything? And then just do it that way. So let me do that. They said -- I asked him. They said it's not like the Bartender's Bash or any crazy event going down there that weekend.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. There's nothing going on this weekend.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. So it's not going to be -- well, that's my point. It's not going to be like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I mean last -- next weekend.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. It's not going to be like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Not last weekend...
AUDIO RECORDING: -- you can't get anything else. So --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I mean, worst-case scenario is there's like, Coast Guard Inn or something.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: which is nice, too.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, that, that -- that's where, that's where I stayed the last time. And that place was so nice but it's expensive. But, I mean, you open up the door and it's like here again. It was beautiful --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. That's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and it has the tiki bar --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and everything.
AUDIO RECORDING: Sandbars sitting right off of it. It's (indiscernible) --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- Resort.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's awesome. Yeah.
(Inaudible. )
AUDIO RECORDING: Worst-case scenario, get something there and it's on me. Okay? So let me, let me hit you --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- up in a little bit. All right, kiddo?
(State's Exhibit No. 138-F concludes. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when -- these calls, Charlie Adelson mentions he's planning to see his mother, Donna Adelson, to get more information about the bump. Does that meeting occur?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when and where does that meeting occur?
PATRICK SANFORD: It occurs on the next day on 4/20 at Ms. Adelson's condos where he arrives at. But they end up going out behind the condo along the walkway behind a restaurant on the water, basically.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So that's actually -- if it's 4/20, that's actually about -- what time did you say the meeting occurred?
PATRICK SANFORD: The meeting occurred around -- I want to say it was around 11 o'clock.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: I can't remember exactly -- the exact time. I think it was a little after 12:00.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. But it's the same day as the call that we just heard.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: which was at 10:38 a.m.?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And what surveillance efforts were made to try to capture the conversation between Charlie Adelson and his mother at that meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. I took equipment out. I had a surveillance team with me, and we took two pieces, two separate pieces of equipment with us on our persons and tried to get as close as we could to them to record their conversation. But they sat off, away, by themselves at a table, out by the water, and tried to -- it was obvious they didn't want anybody around them.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you get any images of the meeting?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did. I took photographs.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. But what about the audio? No dice on the audio?
PATRICK SANFORD: we couldn't, couldn't hear them on the audio.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I'm approaching with State's 58. Recognize State's 58?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How do you recognize it?
PATRICK SANFORD: I took that photo.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Is that a fair and accurate photo of Charles Adelson and his mother, Donna, at the meeting we've just discussed?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time I'd ask to introduce State's 58.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection?
MR. ZANGENEH: None from Mr. Garcia.
MR. DECOSTE: No objection.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Will be admitted.
(State's Exhibit No. 58 received in evidence.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May I publish?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you describe the demeanor of the two as they met?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. They were very cautious, looking around a lot. They were leaning in close to each other, talking very low, even whispering. We couldn't hear them at all, the way they were being very cautious about when we -- people walked by them and things like that, too.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Next I would like to go to call H. what can you tell us about call H?
PATRICK SANFORD: Call H is on 4/20 of '16, the same date that they met. It's at 3:14 p.m. This is after Mr. Adelson and Donna Adelson met, these calls from Charlie to Katie.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-H is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. What's up?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what's up?
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm looking at CVS right now.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Just keep going down until you see Optimar.
AUDIO RECORDING: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Keep going down till you see, like, Optimar. You'll see it in the plaza.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. So TI --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like you --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- go into the plaza where the Cvs is?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Turn in there.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Go all the way down till you see, like, all the, the -- all the -- my God, what do you call it? All the buildings -- all the storage.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And you'll see one that says Optimar Realty. (Inaudible. )
AUDIO RECORDING: Turned into real estate genius.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible.)
AUDIO RECORDING: I love it. Okay. I pulled in. I'm looking at Smart Kids, Family Fresh Juice Bar --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's right next to it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Next to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- Smart Kids?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, no, no. You're too far. Keep going.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, I see.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Then you're going to turn.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Nice.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm outside. I'll park in front of the juice bar?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: The juice bar?
AUDIO RECORDING: Juice bar.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'll walk out right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Come outside.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-H concludes):
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. It sounds, from this call, like Mr. Adelson and Ms. Magbanua are going to have a meeting. Did that meeting occur?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when and where did that meeting occur?
PATRICK SANFORD: It occurred outside of her employment, which is Optimar Reality. It occurred first in Mr. Adelson's vehicle. They met their first. And then they went into a restaurant called Dolce vita.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was there a team of undercover operatives who attempted to intercept the conversation that occurred between Mr. Adelson and Ms. Magbanua inside Dolce vita?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And have you had an opportunity to review that recording?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I have.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what can you tell the jury about the quality of the recording?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's very, very hard to hear. It's a small restaurant. There's a TV above where they're sitting. There's dishes banging, clanging. It's very difficult to hear, especially at the beginning. As it goes on, you can hear it a little bit better as it goes on. But they're talking very low, also, inside the restaurant.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And if we could, I'd like to skip that meeting for a moment, and we will come back to it. Can you just tell us -- I guess we're still on 4/20 of '16, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what was the approximate time frame of the meeting between Mr. Adelson and Ms. Magbanua at Dolce vita?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was approximately four o'clock. I'm not sure of the exact time off the top of my head.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right. And next I'd like to move on to call K. Between -- okay. So after the meeting at Dolce vita, was there some contact between Charlie Adelson and his mother Donna Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And following that, could you tell us about call kK?
PATRICK SANFORD: call K is on 4/21, the following day, at 8:17 a.m. And this is Ms. Magbanua calling Mr. Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Permission to use the transcripts and...
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If y'all will pass them all down this way -- or did you --
JUROR: we just passed them that way.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Thank you.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-K is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Listen. I'm going to tell you something right now, and I'm going to make --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Every time that I ever --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- it very clear. I'm going to make something very clear because --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- you're talking belligerent.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- told you the truth.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Bullshit.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm belligerent? I'm belligerent? what --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm going to make something very --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) up the whole night drinking and I'm drunk. You haven't spoken to me about anything, and now you're going to come at me?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: why? Because you don't know how to apologize because you were wrong.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what the fuck? I was --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- with you last night.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: It's the same thing that happened last time. Listen. I have a more pressing matter that I have to attend to.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: well, apparently --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- you Know what? I don't feel secure, because you take care of everybody else. where's my security, Tuto? when are you going to step up for me?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: You know...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: when is that going to happen? Because I feel like everybody else gets the, the special attention, and then, Katie, you go figure it out. You go figure it out. You figure out the kids. You figure out life. You figure out --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Katie, Katie, Katie, you're so --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You figure out everything else.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Katie, you're doing this again. This is the same shit. I've been here. I've never felt happier.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Every single time --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: We were so happy. we were SO --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: we weren't happy.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- happy.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You have to play pool. You have to play pool. You have to leave me.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Oh, my God, Katie.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right. All right, man. All right. All right. Then fine, then, then go. whatever. Fine. Go. If that's what you need to do to make yourself happy, then I'm --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: To make myself happy, why haven't you?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- going to hold you back.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: why do you have to go through back everything? After everything we went through, why does it have to go back to square one? Do you know how bad I feel? It's like, again, I feel like I'm getting --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Listen, Katie.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- back in my face.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Katie, listen. I --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's always -- no. God, I swear to God. It's just like -- it's like I should just go somewhere because it's, like, you're basically --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Do that.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's over.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: You do that.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Your fucking me over. You're going to tell me, I'm going to make a phone call. Are you --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm not making that fucking phone call. Just --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But you don't talk to me.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Look, Katie, Katie, you're, you're --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You don't talk to me. I'm on edge, and I'm going to be at work on edge, again, today. You don't think that, that, that the --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- the me --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm pretty sure somebody will come by to soothe you and make you feel better.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Are you fucking serious?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Katie, listen.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Listen to what --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Don't fucking -- don't --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Listen --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I just want you to fucking have a pussy between --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- Cindiscernible).
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- your legs and act like you have one.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Listen to me --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: If you want to fucking do --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I do. I'm not a --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- what you want to do, do it. I'm going to take care of my fuck --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible.)
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm going to take care of this fucking problem.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible.)
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm going to take care of this fucking problem and then --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what are you going to take care of, Tuto? You don't discuss anything with me. You're not even listening.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Because the less you know, the better off -- man --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. You're making --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Man, just stop talking on the phone, man. Bye.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's why. You can't --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Bye.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- even Say anything.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-K concludes. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who did you say the voices were on that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: That was Katherine Magbanua and Sigfredo Garcia.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Move to strike. Improper opinion.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And have those voices been authenticated -- who authenticated those voices?
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, personal knowledge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you have an exhibit in front of you where --
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- those voices were authenticated by someone?
PATRICK SANFORD: By Mr. Rivera.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right. Next I'd like to play call L. what can you tell us about call L?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/21 of '16 at 8:36 a.m. And this is from Ms. Magbanua to -- calling Mr. Garcia, again.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
(Pause. )
JUDGE HANKINSON: Do you want to use the transcript?
(Pause. )
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-L is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yes.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I don't remember if it was -- if it -- I think, I think, just in the case, I think, like, you have to pay for Ethan's clothes, like, because of the balance is $65.70.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: JI have to pay for it?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, I think, you remember, like, I wrote down the money you're supposed to put?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: You can't pay for it?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But I'm not sure if it's $60.57 or $65.70.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm trying to get a secured credit card. Is there any way you could pay for it?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm just telling you I don't remember if it's either one of those numbers.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: well, I, I -- you're picking them up today so --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Huh? Say what?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: You're picking them up today, so you'll find out when you get there.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: The amount that I gave you on the piece of paper, I don't know if it's $60.57 or $65.70.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Got it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay? So there's no credit cards that I can use in his school. So it makes no sense. You got it?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Understood.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-L concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what were the last four digits of the undercover operative's phone number?
PATRICK SANFORD: 6570.
(Pause. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I want to go to call 0. what can you tell us about call 0?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/25 of '16, at 7:04 p.m. This is Charlie Adelson calling Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So this is about four days after the call we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Let me ask you before we publish this call. Has anyone, up to this point, called the undercover number?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, they have not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Has anyone, up to this point, called to report the matter to the police?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, they have not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's publish 0, please.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-0 is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. You on your way?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Cool. I'm going to be at The Icon, which is when you come over 395. It's right there in the -- you know which building The Icon is, right?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's all the way in South Beach, right? Like --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. It's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's fucking far.
AUDIO RECORDING: When you come over --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, it's a lot of traffic down there. You can't go a little bit more up north -- and just go up north anywhere?
AUDIO RECORDING: Iwill. I'm just -- Iwill. I'm just standing outside. I was talking to my parents about everything.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm just talking to my parents about my day. I'm standing -- I was standing out --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: About me?
AUDIO RECORDING: No. I was talking to my parents about my day.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: So that --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I was, like, I have to just, like, jet out of my, my --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- homegirls' house.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like --
AUDIO RECORDING: where --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- worried about me every single two seconds. So....
AUDIO RECORDING: Of course. Where -- but I'd rather -- where are you now?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm on 15.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Just, just do me this one favor. Just come down here.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Is everything okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I just want you to come down here so I could see you. I mean, you're already in the car. It's, it's on a -- The Icon is on the corner of Fifth and Alton. It's that, it's that big building, as soon as you're on Alton and you cross over Fifth, on your right-hand side.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. well, can it be anywhere else besides that?
AUDIO RECORDING: I can get in my car and start trying to find you, but then we got to drive and park and -- I'd rather you just come over here.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. But that is, like, the heart of South Beach. It's, like kind of stupid for me to go all the way down there.
AUDIO RECORDING: You're right. Okay. I'll, I'll start -- I'll get in my car in five --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible.)
AUDIO RECORDING: I'll get -- in five minutes, I'll -- start heading this way, and I'll get in my car --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and then I'll meet you somewhere in, like, 15 minutes. But I still need to talk to my parents for another five minutes. And then I'm going to leave them and then I'm going to come fi -- come to wherever you are because -- start -- still keep heading south.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yes. I'm heading, I'm heading down south. I'm on 15 heading down south.
AUDIO RECORDING: what's, what's your cross street?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm, like, in 82nd right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. 82nd?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. I'm getting --
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Just give me a call when you get in the car.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I'll give you a call to see where you are, and I'll start heading up north.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Do you get it when I call you through whatsApp?
AUDIO RECORDING: Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't. I'll put my ringer -- I don't know. Let me see if my phone is on vibrate.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Let me get in my truck. Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: A111 right.
(State's exhibit No. 138-0 concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. what about call P?
PATRICK SANFORD: call P is on 4/25/16 at 7:33 p.m. And it's from Ms. Magbanua to Mr. Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Transcript, please.
(Pause. )
MR. DECOSTE: Objection. Sidebar. It's related to 403, Your Honor.
(Sidebar discussion held as follows):
JUDGE HANKINSON: Yes, sir.
MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, these items that we believe would have been redacted -- I'm looking at page 2, line 11 where there is use of the word negroes.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Is that it?
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right.
MR. DECOSTE: I believe that would, that would -- we have multiple Africa-American jurors that that would be taken negatively.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I asked for any preposed redactions. I don't have a position either way, but it would cause a delay to redact it at this point.
JUDGE HANKINSON: well, I'll overrule the objection.
(Sidebar discussion concludes.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's publish call P, please.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-P is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: Talk to you later.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, like, where are you, like, walk and the boardwalk? I don't know where to go.
AUDIO RECORDING: where, where are you now?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I parked in the visitors. I don't even know if that's, like, where I'm supposed to park.
AUDIO RECORDING: At Monty's?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. Like, I went all the way down, like -- there's, like, a group of negros right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, okay. I think they passed me a little while ago. Oh, do you see them walking? Is someone wearing a red shirt?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Like, it's a group -- a whole group of them. Do you want me to go to Monty's?
AUDIO RECORDING: Wait. By the marina?
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm standing outside the boats in green scrubs.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, I see you. I'm behind you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Are you behind me?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't see you.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm going to turn right now. I was in the parking. Like, I was in the parking garage.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, okay. I see you. All right.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-P concludes. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. was this call succeeded by a meeting between Katherine Magbanua and Charlie Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was that meeting something that was able to be surveilled at all by law enforcement?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it wasn't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: why not?
PATRICK SANFORD: Because they were -- obviously, we couldn't catch her -- catch all their conversations. They were talking about whatsApp, and then all of a sudden they just met without us knowing that they were meeting until the last minute.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what's the whatsApp?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's a, it's a app that you can have on your phone that you can talk end to end with encryption. It doesn't go through typical phone methods that was being captured by our Title ill. It goes through the Internet in encryption, and we can't capture it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So you weren't privy to any communications between them, to the extent there were any, through the what'sApp application.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And you were not able to get surveillance teams set up in time to record this meeting or attempt to record it?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Let's go to call Q. when is call Q?
PATRICK SANFORD: Call Q is 4/26 of '16 at 9:48 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. From who to whom?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's Mr. Garcia to Ms. Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish Q, please.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-Q is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (CIndiscernible.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: what's, what's going on?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I just want to talk to you about something, but did you, did you Cinaudible) extra money or something for your children?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: what? Of course. Don't worry about them. They're fine. They got money. They got everything they need for the field trip.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: You okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I just need to talk to you, though. Okay?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: That sounds, that sounds personal. I don't know what you need to talk to me about. So...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what does that mean?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (iIndiscernible.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Indiscernible.)
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I mean, you know, your son is asking about you. So I'm going to have to set up a conference call so I can see you.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: The what?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Your son's, your son's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: well, yeah, obviously, I have to call you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: No. You need to talk to him.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right. well...
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Don't call me back. call -- if anything, I'll drop him off to your mom or something like that. we'll --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what are you talking about?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: You can go hang out with him.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Don't, don't involve my mom in anything.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: You're calling my mom. You call my mom and talking a lot of shit. My mom said next time you call her, she's...
(State's Exhibit No. 138-Q concludes. )
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And on our transcript, call --
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, Your Honor. TI apologize. May I have a clarification? we're trying to find this one. which day is that on?
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: would you repeat the date and time of call Q?
PATRICK SANFORD: 4/26/16.
MR. DECOSTE: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. At 9:46 a.m.; is that correct? 9:48 maybe?
PATRICK SANFORD: 9:48 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. That's right. And on our transcript, it indicates that the male speaker is unidentified. Has that speaker since been identified?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he has.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: By Mr. Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he has.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: As who?
PATRICK SANFORD: Mr. Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Next, I'd like to move on to R, which is a text message, I believe. what can you tell us about that?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's a text message on 4/26 of '16 at 9:52 a.m., and it's from Ms. Magbanua to Mr. Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And when you're on a wire, are you able to see the text messages in real time, as well?
PATRICK SANFORD: Text messages that go through the phone, that is correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. But not if they go through the whatsApp.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is that the distinction you're making? Okay.
So this one went through the phone, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what was the content of this text message? Tell us, again, who it's to and who it's from.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's from Ms. Magbanua to Mr. Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what's the content?
PATRICK SANFORD: The content says, need to talk to you about something else.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And Ss?
PATRICK SANFORD: S is another text message on the same date, 4/26/16, at 9:58 a.m., about six minutes later. And this is from Mr. Garcia to Ms. Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what's the content?
PATRICK SANFORD: It says, he was. whatever. whatever is going on with you and your homey is your business. You guys WITK, which is like work that shit out. Don't text me.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Next I want to ask you about a letter that was sent to the Adelson Institute. Are you familiar with this letter?
PATRICK SANFORD: A letter that was sent to the Adelson's?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I believe so. I'll approach and show you what I've marked as State's Exhibit 121. Do you recognize State's 121?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was I wrong about where it was sent?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I'm sorry. where was that letter sent?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was sent to their condominium on -- in Miami Beach.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: whose condominium on Miami Beach?
PATRICK SANFORD: Mr. Harvey Adelson and Ms. Donna Adelson's condominium.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And who sent the letter?
PATRICK SANFORD: I had an -- I gave it to an agent to have him mail it.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And what was the purpose of this letter?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was to generate more conversation.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And is that a fair and accurate photograph of the letter that was sent to the Adelsons?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time I'd ask to move into evidence State's 121.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Any objection?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, Judge. Agent Sanford said he gave it to another agent to mail it. I don't think -- he can authenticate that that's what he gave to the other agent, but he can't authenticate that that was what was mailed.
MR. DECOSTE: Chain of custody and hearsay, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I'1Il admit 121.
(State's Exhibit No. 121 received in evidence.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Publishing State's 121. We may have to approach. Are you able to read for us -- well, this might help.
MR. DECOSTE: There you go.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN
MS. CAPPLEMAN: The content?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Go ahead.
PATRICK SANFORD: My phone is not ringing, so you don't care about Tato and what he did for you. He knows he is fucked and soon so will you.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: who's Tato?
PATRICK SANFORD: Tato is Luis Rivera.
(off-the-record discussion.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Looks like next we have call v, which I'm told we do not have a transcript for. I apologize for that. But if you'll tell us what you can about call v.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/26 of '16, at 4:33 p.m., and it's from Ms. Magbanua to Mr. Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Publish v.
(State's No. 138-v is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. What's going on?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: well, you know, I don't know what the fuck. Like, I, for some reason, I know you were, like, telling me something about for the client but I -- like, I got it mixed up with the number. And, like --
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and I'm calling both numbers but nobody is picking up. So I need to figure out because -- or else I could set up, you know, with the Realtor to show the property.
AUDIO RECORDING: Ah, fuck. They sound like a really good client, if they -- if they're going to rent the place. TI actually have --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible. )
AUDIO RECORDING: I actually have the number at home.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But, like, I need it, like, stat.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, I can -- fuck. I wish I would have wrote it down.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, I'm supposed to -- but the thing is, like, I tried to, you know, remember it and, like, I just couldn't. Like, I have -- I've been calling so many people today so it's, like -- it's been --
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm, I'm going to be home in probably two hours, and I can get you the number then. Hopefully they haven't, like, looked at other properties yet.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I -- well --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Kind of -- there's, there's no way at all you can get the number to me?
AUDIO RECORDING: Let me...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Before I get out of work?
AUDIO RECORDING: well, let me do this. Let me, let me see if I, I can get the number. TI got the number at home in my desk.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: But let me see if the number may be some other place. Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I'll call you right back.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-v concludes):
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And then next I'd like to go to call w. what can you tell us about w?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/26, at 4:34 p.m., and it's a call from Charlie Adelson.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Wait a minute. Those transcripts aren't out yet.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: From Charlie Adelson to whom?
PATRICK SANFORD: To Donna Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
(Pause. )
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. You may publish.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-w is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, Charlie.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. Do you -- can you hear me?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I can hear you fine.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Do you remember the number that was written on that paper the other day? Because I have it at home.
AUDIO RECORDING: TI don't.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Because someone just called me asking for it, because they, they thought they remembered it. But, evidently, they, they remembered it wrong. So I'm --
AUDIO RECORDING: NO.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- going have to get it. Okay. I got the paper at my house, so don't --
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- don't worry about it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: You didn't write the number down anywhere.
AUDIO RECORDING: No. I gave you the paper, and that was the end of it.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know. But I thought maybe you --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- wrote the number down.
AUDIO RECORDING: I didn't. I didn't, honey.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. They're just calling me now about the number, and I have the paperwork at my house.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I'll get it to them in a few hours.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, sweetheart.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Bye.
AUDIO RECORDING: I love you. Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-v concludes):
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And next we'll go to call X. what can you tell us about call xX?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/26 of '16, at 4:35 p.m. It is from Charlie Adelson to Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So is this call immediately after the one we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-x is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: I just called. They don't have the number either. It's at --
AUDIO RECORDING: And I'm not going to be able to give it to you until I get home.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. It's always such a mission to, like, set up the freaking -- to try to get the agent for showing. That's why.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's the problem.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's why I was like, take it. write the number down. And you're like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. But it's like I'm so good at, like, memorizing shit, you know. Like, I do this all day. Like, I have, like, like, a thousand numbers on my phone now. And now when somebody calls me back, I don't remember who it is, because I'm not going to save every person's number.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You know? I don't have a landline in my job. I have to use my cell phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's why you got to put it in your contact list, so you don't lose your contacts.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. I can't do that like this. There's going to be random people who's calling my phone. Your, like --
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- some clients that don't even want to, like -- one day they want to see a property, another day, oh, no, it's okay, because they're working with somebody else.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I'm in Miami Lakes right now, so I'm not going to -- let me see what time I get out of here. Hang on one second.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Damn it. You can't even remember?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. Come on. At my age, I'm lucky I remember what I had for breakfast. The only reason I remember is because I make the same thing every day. Hang on one second.
Hey. Do you know what time my last patient is?
AUDIO RECORDING: This is your last one.
AUDIO RECORDING: That uncover?
AUDIO RECORDING: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm done?
AUDIO RECORDING: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: why didn't someone tell me? wait. That guy that came from the other office? So I'm all done. Okay. Beautiful. Thank you.
I can get out of here before traffic hits. All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I can, I can get the number in 30 minutes.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Thank you.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-x concludes. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. call Y, please. what can you tell us about call Y, Agent Sanford?
PATRICK SANFORD: call Y is on 4/26, 2016, at 5:35 p.m., and it's from Mr. Garcia to Ms. Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-Y is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hel10?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Hey.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hel10?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: How are you doing?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Fine.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: How are you doing, Pushba? Hey, Poopie.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hey. I think I remember the -- remember one of the listings that I had to tell you?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Or one of the properties.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: well, what was -- I don't know. Just in case that you call, you know, because I have to, I have to set it up --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. Because I tried to meet the Realty guy each time.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's -- I believe it's at 305.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: 6570.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: 6570?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh. Because I always -- I had, like, two numbers.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I know. You got that dyslexia. I get it. I get it. So the listing for the place is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's the (305)712-6570.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: 5570.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. NO, no, no. See, you're confusing me. It's 305.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Uh-huh.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Uh-huh.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: 6570.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I believe that was one of the ones that I tried. well, I'll, I'll --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- I'll reach out to you in a bit.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right. All right. Ethan just wanted me to tell you hi.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right. Tell him hi.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: A111 right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hey, can you call me back later?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. Absolutely.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Seven.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: A111 right.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-Y concludes. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Did they correctly state the undercover phone number in this call?
PATRICK SANFORD: They did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Has anyone yet called the undercover phone number?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, they have not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I want to move on to call Z. Tell us about call Z.
PATRICK SANFORD: call Z is on 4/27 of '16, at 10:42 a.m. And this is from -- it's from Ms. Magbanua to Mr. Adelson.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-Z is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You spoke to my secretary?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes, I did.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: So she picks, she picks up the phone. She sounds -- first of all, she sounds exactly like you on the phone.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: She sounds like me?
AUDIO RECORDING: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what? She sounded like me?
AUDIO RECORDING: For a second, she picks up the phone and goes, she's in the bathroom. And I thought that was, like, some kind of code for something or other. She's like --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- she's in the bathroom. And I'm like, is she in the toilet, or is she in the bathroom? I was like -- I'm like -- head's, like, spinning. I was like, what is she trying to tell me? I was thinking, like, can she just -- is it --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Indiscernible.)
AUDIO RECORDING: I was about to ask her, has she flushed, or is she still floating? I want her to flush. Make it go away.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) the whole bathroom scene.
AUDIO RECORDING: I want a flush.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. She wasn't flushed. Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I'm fucking --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Are you at --
AUDIO RECORDING: I thought this was, like, code. I'm like, Katie, did she flush or is she in the bathroom?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, my God. That's too funny.
AUDIO RECORDING: Call -- and then I'm like, I'm about to -- well, call me back when she flushes.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Stop. Man, Cindiscernible).
AUDIO RECORDING: I made it clear I want the problem flushed.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Ay, ay, ay.
AUDIO RECORDING: So, hey, are you going to The Keys this weekend?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I don't think so. why?
AUDIO RECORDING: Because if you were, I was going to tell you to come by on tomorrow and I'll tell you the code to my garage, and I will leave something for you, a coupon. I was going to leave a gift card and a --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: With a coupon?
AUDIO RECORDING: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: With a coupon?
AUDIO RECORDING: well, it's a gift card that you can use at any hotel.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, cool.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I was kind of thinking, if you did want to go away for the weekend, it would be nice to have a gift card.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Indiscernible)?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. That's if you're going to go away and, like, just take a deep breath --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Indiscernible. )
AUDIO RECORDING: -- enjoy the --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Shit. I want to take a deep breath every day.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, I think you need -- I think mama needs a vacation with daddy. So why don't you guys --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Shut up.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- go on a vacation, leave the fucking kids at home, and have a cocktail. call ita day. wake up and just fish.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Aren't you supposed to be at work. what are you doing?
AUDIO RECORDING: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Don't people like you work?
AUDIO RECORDING: No.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I See that.
AUDIO RECORDING: No. I'm fucking driving to Port St. Lucie today.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Ugh, that's a long drive.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's fucking far and it's fuck -- it's far if you took an airplane.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: How long does it take?
AUDIO RECORDING: Doing, like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: How long does it take if you drive?
AUDIO RECORDING: -- 80-something nonstop, it's an hour and a half.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Shut up.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You're crazy.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: How many, how many patients did you have?
AUDIO RECORDING: It's -- honestly, it's not even that good of an office. They have another oral surgeon. It's kind of bullshit, and it's half a day. I like to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (CIndiscernible) oral surgeon.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and I have lost a bunch of offices that went corporate or got sold or...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then I have the implant rep badmouthing me to all my offices, and two of them dropped me. So I don't care. I'm glad to be slower than I was. Like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- it really wasn't good for my health. I was fucking --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I was miserable.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. (Inaudible. )
AUDIO RECORDING: So -- but anyway, let me know if you're planning to do a little fishing --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I will.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- in The Keys.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I don't even know.
AUDIO RECORDING: well --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I don't even know. why do you ask me? TI don't know. TI don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You don't need to know. Like, I don't know. I'm a person with no plans.
AUDIO RECORDING: well...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: She's so annoyed.
AUDIO RECORDING: Straighten your shit out. And if I were you, I would go do some fishing and have a cocktail, because that fixes everything.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Alcohol fixes everything. Hallelujah.
AUDIO RECORDING: And you need to find to Jesus.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Look. You find Jesus. And when you find him, you'll -- tell Him to take care of me.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm, I'm looking for Him. I found, I found -- I got so excited the other day, but then it was Jesus.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: She's like she's -- he's Jewish.
AUDIO RECORDING: Dude, I'm your, I'm your third favorite --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: wait. You don't --
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. Am TI your third favorite Jew still?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You are my third favorite Jew.
AUDIO RECORDING: Number 1 you are.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello. It's No. 1, Jesus.
AUDIO RECORDING: Jesus.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Then it's Drake.
AUDIO RECORDING: Drake. And then --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And then it's you.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- Charlie.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Yeah. You're always going to be No. 3.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm always behind Drake. It's a good thing T.I's not --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Behind Drake.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's a good thing T.I.'s not Jewish --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, my God, T.I. Haha. T.I., yum.
AUDIO RECORDING: Then I'd --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- No. 4.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. But you know how much I'm in love with him.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know. I know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: He's having -- oh, he had the baby already.
AUDIO RECORDING: He has the reality show now.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Dude, are you serious?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: He's been had that show for years.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what's wrong with you?
AUDIO RECORDING: I just saw it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You're white. You don't like to watch BET. Oh, do they even have BET still? I don't know, man. You need to watch something.
AUDIO RECORDING: (Inaudible. )
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You need Jesus.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I'll look for Him.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Look for Him. And, oh, Lemonade. Google it. Beyoncé, Lemonade, Google, now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Beyoncé, Lemonade? Yeah, no. I saw it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Are you --
AUDIO RECORDING: I got hot sauce in my bag.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You got hot sauce in your bag?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yep.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, my God, no. No. white people just don't understand. Okay. Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-Z concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Next I'd like to go to AA. It looks like AA is about two hours after the call we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And tell us the details on AA.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's 4/27/16 at 12:25 p.m. This is from Donna Adelson to Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And who authenticated Ms. Adelson's voice on those calls?
PATRICK SANFORD: That was Wendi Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
(off-the-record discussion.)
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Overruled.
(Pause. )
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Publish AA, please.
(State's Exhibit NO. 138-AA is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: The answer's no. Dad said he doesn't want to.
AUDIO RECORDING: He doesn't want to?
AUDIO RECORDING: No.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right? Thank you for the offer. It was very sweet.
AUDIO RECORDING: Is it because he's tied up or he just doesn't feel like going?
AUDIO RECORDING: I think he's -- I think he just doesn't feel like going.
AUDIO RECORDING: Really?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's -- are -- is he still upset about everything or...
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. He's not having the best day.
AUDIO RECORDING: Did something else happen?
AUDIO RECORDING: No. No. So, you know, just understand and maybe another, maybe another time. Just not, not right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. No.
AUDIO RECORDING: But thank you. Thank you, sweetheart.
AUDIO RECORDING: Literally, everything else is being taken care of.
AUDIO RECORDING: Great.
AUDIO RECORDING: Just, just so you know, they, they actually called the person. And --
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, my. Thank goodness.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- nobody --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- nobody picked up.
AUDIO RECORDING: Really?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Yeah. It --
AUDIO RECORDING: Probably have these throwaway phones maybe. who knows?
AUDIO RECORDING: well, it doesn't -- that doesn't matter. I mean, it's -- a throwaway is nothing as far as voice mail. But no one, no one picked up. They tried a couple times. I wouldn't worry at -- let me tell you something. I would not worry at all. I'd worry about other things.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: And that's -- you've got to find something new to worry about.
AUDIO RECORDING: No. I don't want to -- believe me, I don't want to worry about something.
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no. You --
AUDIO RECORDING: No. No. I cannot ask for one. Don't make that statement to me.
AUDIO RECORDING: You have to find something new to worry about.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Thank you.
AUDIO RECORDING: TI don't know what you're going to do with your free time.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. All my free time.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, you never -- let me just tell you something. You never let yourself have free time. You never --
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, is that so?
AUDIO RECORDING: Always be like --
AUDIO RECORDING: That's not true.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, I got to do this. Oh, and then I got to do that. Eh, I'm behind on this. Then I got laundry.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's not true.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I've got laundry to do and then I got to go to Publix. That always --
AUDIO RECORDING: Actually, I had to run this morning, because it's Administrative Professional's Day, which I didn't realize until the last minute. I had to go run out and buy a cake for Erica. So...
AUDIO RECORDING: But, listen --
AUDIO RECORDING: And then I got a big, big chalazion on my eye last night. And so I had to run to CVS this morning and go get drops and eye, eye medication and stuff for it.
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, you are always -- I mean, I'm telling you --
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm trying -- I'm really trying not to, Charlie, just so you know.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm really trying not to.
AUDIO RECORDING: But I'm just saying, like, you know, I mean, it's -- you're like, oh, ask me how many times you went down to the hot tub since we moved in here. Like, that's your fault. No one else's --
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm not -- I know. I know that.
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, I'm just saying, like, you know what, you've got to find something else to --
AUDIO RECORDING: we try to enjoy every day.
AUDIO RECORDING: Trust me when I tell you, Mom. It is -- you've done nothing wrong.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: And it's because of that, you have nothing, literally, nothing to worry about. Someone's fishing and someone wants to try to make some money because they're struggling. But that will never amount -- that will never amount to anything. If someone's trying to throw something, you know, throw a fishing line out there -- how are you doing?
Throw a fishing line out there to see if they can catch something. And that's -- and I understand why they're doing it. And I understand what they're trying to do. But, I mean, it doesn't make it right. But they're -- they -- the funny thing is they really don't -- they're just fishing is all that's going on.
AUDIO RECORDING: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I wouldn't, I wouldn't worry about it at all. So I've told you that many times. I'm sure you --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes. I got you, Charlie. I got it.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, nothing changes the fact -- hey, how are you? Good. Do you think you can run this through and then hand it back to me?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I need, I need to make sure I get this back, though. I don't want to mix it.
But, yeah. I would not -- I mean, I know that it's easier for me to say than for you to do it.
AUDIO RECORDING: It is.
AUDIO RECORDING: But I would not sit around and, like, you know, drive, drive yourself to the point where you get sick because, because of that. I mean, it's...
AUDIO RECORDING: I know, sweetheart. I do.
AUDIO RECORDING: I just -- you know what I mean?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: You say you know, you know, you know.
AUDIO RECORDING: I do.
AUDIO RECORDING: And it's like --
AUDIO RECORDING: No. I do.
AUDIO RECORDING: I -- listen, the person that came to you is just relaying a message. And then, and then some dumb idiot wants to go ahead and they want it followed up with a letter, right? And the truth is, is that the number was called. They didn't even pick up. And then, and then she tried calling 786, thinking maybe they wrote it down wrong, you know 786, not 305. And that one went and -- to a voice mail. But the other one, no.
AUDIO RECORDING: NO.
AUDIO RECORDING: So it's not even in -- you know, so it's absolutely pointless. And trust me when I tell you it's not -- you know, you happen to live in a very -- you know, not only in a very safe building, but it's a very safe area. I mean, it's not the area you want to ever do anything. I'm telling you right now. Are you there?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I'm listening honey.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I mean, it's not -- it's -- if you do anything in that area, it's a very, very, very, very high-risk area to do anything. Can you hear me?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yes. I hear you fine.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know. And you're not that important. I mean, I hate to break the news to you.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, that would be great. I'd like to not be important.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, I mean, you're just -- you're crazy, yeah. Both of y'all are, but I'm just saying, like, that important, no. Like, it's -- what you don't realize is that the amount of undercover police south of Fifth -- there's undercover police south of Fifth, there's people on -- there are security guys on bikes that have radios that drive all over the place, and they just pop up around corners, because they're watching corners everywhere. You know what I mean? Like, they're just --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- one second they're there and the next second they're not. They're there and they're not. And then you have -- everyone on the planet has a cell phone. And then outside of every single building there's a street camera. And then there's undercover cops. You don't know if the homeless guy sitting talking to himself has a radio in his ear, and he's a police officer.
And that's, that's actually what they do with a lot of undercover cops. They just sit them on the corner and they dress them up like a bum, and you can't tell the difference. You there?
AUDIO RECORDING: I know. I --
AUDIO RECORDING: And another person sits there with their radio in their ear and they talk to the other officers all day. And then you think they're just sitting there listening to their music and they're homeless -- look like a homeless guy. And that's, that's what you have all over the place. So that area is -- and then you have cops just sitting there, walking around. I mean, that area south of Fifth, nothing ever happens there. Do you ever notice -- like, you ever hear of anything, you ever see anything? No. And the only way to get off of there is to go over a bridge.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's not -- you know, there's -- it's not an area that you want to -- put it this way. It's not an area you're going to get away from. It's a very, very, very difficult area to do something, for that, for that reason. I mean, people -- you know, the, the -- you know, they keep undercover cops all over the place for a reason. You know why? There are certain areas that there's a ton of billionaires and rich people and famous people. They don't want anything happening down there.
Now, other areas of Miami, they don't have that kind of police presence because that's -- you go to Overtown, they don't have that. But in that area, I mean, you know, I mean, it's not -- it's a very, very difficult area to do -- if you wanted to do something, it's a very difficult area. And you're not that important. And it's not like you're going to, you know -- you sound like someone's going to come after you there. And then if you think, like, the stupidity of thinking, oh, well, they'l1] hurt one, and then the other one will pay, like, it doesn't work like that. I mean, they --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's like -- I mean, it's just -- I just, honestly, I've just had enough of everything. I mean, you can -- I feel bad that you want to worry yourself to the point that you get sick but that's, that's what you guys choose to do. But I'm telling you that, like, I would, I would be more upset about -- I think there's a higher likelihood that Lincoln loses his eyeball because his brother's cool --
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- system. No, no, no. I'm just saying, like, reality, reality check.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't, I don't worry because out of the blue I decide, sure, I don't really have -- I'd like to worry today. I don't try to worry but, I mean, I've have had some issues that are concerning and --
AUDIO RECORDING: I know. I understand.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- understand that.
AUDIO RECORDING: But I -- they've been addressed.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
AUDIO RECORDING: The things that aren't addressed is the fact that Ben doesn't, Ben doesn't listen to anybody because he don't want to ell -- nobody wants to lay the law down with him.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: But -- no, I mean, I'm just, I'm just telling you like --
AUDIO RECORDING: That's being, that's being worked on. That's being worked on.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I'm just, I'm just telling you out of, like -- you know, it's like you've got to have better thing -- you just realize that you're -- the likelihood are so small. You have a better likelihood of aggravating yourself in getting a heart attack. That's -- I'm just telling you -- and hear me out. You have a --
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm glad. You know, I hope --
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, I'm not glad you're going to give yourself a heart attack. But that's --
AUDIO RECORDING: No. TI hope, I hope --
AUDIO RECORDING: But I'm just, I'm just telling you is you have a better chance of upsetting yourselves and giving yourself a heart attack over it.
The patient's here? what's that? Not yet. She's here? She's out -- she's -- okay. Perfect. They have the motor set up and everything there? Motor is set up here? why is it set up there? No. Yeah. we should do it with the third molar traction. I just walked in. She was over there. Maybe they'll bring the motor over. well, maybe they'll bring the patient over.
AUDIO RECORDING: where are you working?
AUDIO RECORDING: Port St. Lucie.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, boy.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I'm just telling you, Mom. You have a --
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I heard that. I understand --
AUDIO RECORDING: And realize that you have a better chance of giving yourself a heart attack from, from aggravating yourself. Okay. Let me get to work. Okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: Go. I love you, Charlie.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-AA concludes. )
JUDGE HANKINSON: we need to take a break, Ms. Cappleman?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes. Whenever you're ready, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Just leave the transcripts there. They'll pick them up. Have a good lunch break. Let's be back at one o'clock.
(Jury exits.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: Either side need anything?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I do have a couple things, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Whenever you're ready, I'm ready to address the issue --
JUDGE HANKINSON: Everybody be seated.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- of the transcript that was prepared by this witness. And I also have a...
JUDGE HANKINSON: You said you were going to give me some case law.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I did.
(Brief recess.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Anything else --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And, Judge --
JUDGE HANKINSON: -- from anybody? we'll see y'all at 1:00.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, if I could just tell you. I put Martinez in there, which I know you've already looked at. But take a look at footnote five on Martinez. And then the case that's cited there is attached, as well.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. One o'clock?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
(Lunch recess.)
BAILIFF: All rise and come to order. Court is back in session.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's have a jury, please.
(Jury enters.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: Everybody be seated, please.
You may proceed, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (cont)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Agent, when we broke, I believe we were about to play -- or talk about call BB. What can you tell us about call BB?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was on 4/28/2016 at 9:42 a.m., and it's from Charlie Adelson to Donna Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
(State's Exhibits No. 138-BB is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: Good morning, Charlie.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. How are you?
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Are you in an office or home or where are you?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no. I'm driving to an office now. what's up?
AUDIO RECORDING: well, Erica called me this morning and -- because Dad is on the road to the office. So Erica called me and she said, she said, I don't normally bother you with this. She says, I don't know if it was a sales call or what. Somebody called this morning and he, he said his name was Sammy, and he gave you some very important papers last week, and he hasn't heard from you. And he wants you to call him back and here's the number --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you pause it for a minute?
(State's Exhibit No. 138-BB is paused.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So Ms. Adelson is heard on this call talking about a message from the undercover. Are you familiar with that message?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I am.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. We heard a conversation when we had the undercover agent on the stand where he called the Adelson Institute. Is that the call that Ms. Adelson is referencing here?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So that call, the undercover calling the Adelson Institute, did that occur between AA and BB?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Thank you. Sorry.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Will you continue publishing?
(State's Exhibit No. 138-BB continues as follows):
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I want you to verify the number was the same -- is the correct number that I had, you know, told you about. So, obviously, I'm not going to call the number. Erica said, you know, if it turns out to be a sales call, just hit *67 before you call the number, and then they don't know the number you're calling from. I said, oh, okay. I'11l write that down. what's your suggestion?
AUDIO RECORDING: The odd thing is this, is that -- that's the same number you gave me, right?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know because I gave you the number. I never kept it, and you kept it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Tell me what the number was.
AUDIO RECORDING: 305.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
AUDIO RECORDING: 712.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
AUDIO RECORDING: 6570.
AUDIO RECORDING: 6570.
AUDIO RECORDING: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. No. It's, it's someone -- the odd thing is, is that 712-6570. Yeah. That's the same number, and it was called and no one picked up.
AUDIO RECORDING: Maybe he'll pick up now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. So someone called today?
AUDIO RECORDING: They called the office and Erica called me. She said, I hope I'm not bothering you. It's probably a sales call.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Listen, let me tell you something. I'm, I'm looking into it right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I figured you were.
AUDIO RECORDING: And it's --
AUDIO RECORDING: I just wanted you to verify the number.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know. And that's -- the odd thing is you would think the number would be picked up. I mean --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. well, they'll pick it up.
AUDIO RECORDING: So let me do this. Let me call somebody .
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I wouldn't, I wouldn't -- Mom, trust me when I tell you. I wouldn't worry at all.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Okay. I just wanted to tell you --
AUDIO RECORDING: And I'll tell you why, especially, especially because -- what do you call it -- especially because I know -- you know who it is. So let me call someone and take care of it now. Okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: Thank you, Charlie.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right.
AUDIO RECORDING: Love you.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-BB concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And the next call is CC. who is making that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: That is Charlie Adelson to Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was that done on the same day as the call we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. About -- so a few minutes after that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. Just a few minutes. Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'd like to publish Cc at this time.
(Pause. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let me ask you, Agent Sanford, while they're passing those out. Between BB and CC, was there an unanswered call that was made?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. I believe there was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was that from Charlie Adelson to Katherine Magbanua?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Do you know the time of the unanswered call?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know the exact time.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Is there something you could use to refresh your memory? So BB we had at 9:42 a.m., and that lasted about two and a half minutes.
PATRICK SANFORD: Right. It was definitely before the 9:42, 9:49, of course.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So some time between 9:44 and 9:49?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, leading.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: We can publish CC, please.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-cc is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: You have reached the voice mailbox of (786) 564-1312.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. It's me. It's important. Call me. Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-cC concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And whose answering machine was that -- or voice mail? Nobody has answering machines.
PATRICK SANFORD: Right. The voice mail was Ms. Adelson's, Donna Adelson's.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Ms. Adelson? I think, I think you need to look at that, again.
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry.
PATRICK SANFORD: cc. sorry.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: 2275.
PATRICK SANFORD: I was looking at the wrong one. That was Charlie to Katherine Magbanua's. That was her voice mail on her cell phone. Sorry.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. That's okay. And then -- so after Mr. Adelson hangs up with Ms. Donna Adelson jin BB, we've got the unanswered call in between BB and CC, a voice mail on CC. what happens next?
PATRICK SANFORD: Mr. Adelson attempts to call Ms. Magbanua at least two more times. It goes straight to voice mail.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And then what about DD, at 10:43 a.m.?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. DD, at 10:43 a.m. is Katie Magbanua calling Charlie Adelson back.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish DD, please.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-DD is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: What happened?
AUDIO RECORDING: Somebody called my dad's office --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- looking for him, saying --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- that they dropped off some paperwork to them.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: There was a phone number on there. And, actually, the person left a message with Erica. And Erica called --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- my mom up, because she's like, you know, normally I wouldn't call you up but I got this strange phone call --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and Mom was like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh. what is the phone number that they're calling from, though?
AUDIO RECORDING: I can ask Erica. Erica said a guy by the name of Sammy --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- called the office this morning, saying that I left some paperwork with Dr. Adelson last week and I left a number on there and he needs to call me at that number.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. Somebody is fucking pulling your bones and shit.
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, this is the third, this is the third --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Call the number. Call the number, because I'm fixing to call on my fucking phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: Fucking -- I mean, it's someone who wants to be called back. Let's put it that way. Do you, do you still have the number?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. well, obviously, that number nobody is not picking up.
AUDIO RECORDING: well --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That is a nonworking number. It's like a gmail number.
AUDIO RECORDING: Nobody's pulling the leg. I'm just asking you to find out who the fuck it is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's like --
AUDIO RECORDING: You know?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- get that number that's off of your -- off of the thing -- off of the number -- off of the freaking caller ID.
AUDIO RECORDING: At the office?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yes, obviously. Because this is, like, a fucking bullshit game.
AUDIO RECORDING: So they're not, they're not coming out on foot, they're not writing letters, and they're not calling the office because, because they have nothing better to do.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: well, I don't know what to tell you, because I called that number myself.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. well, let's, let's call that number again and find out what the fuck's going on.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And nobody picks up. I even tried another number and left a message.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. well, I would call --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm trying to get whoever is threatening your family and helping you guys out and trying to help you guys out, but it's like if they don't pick up, like, what the fuck?
AUDIO RECORDING: I, I understand.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's like it's a fucking joke.
AUDIO RECORDING: I understand. But they fucking called this morning, and they're waiting for the phone call. That's what I'm telling you. And since it's three times --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get the number or whatever that is that's, that's calling you or your --
AUDIO RECORDING: It's 305 --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- or whatever it is.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- 712-6570. Do you have the number?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly. That number is obviously -- it's like a nonworking number.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Can you, can you find out --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I tried. Okay? And then it's like what else -- I don't fucking understand. It's either somebody is pulling your bones, somebody is just harassing you, or somebody is trying to get something out of you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Find out who the fuck it is, because the other phone call is going to be the FBI. I'm, I'm telling you --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, I'm telling you. And then when they do catch the person, they're going to be asking him lots of questions about who Katie is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: We already spoke about this. It's, like, not even, like, a fucking joke anymore because, excuse me --
AUDIO RECORDING: It's not a fucking joke. Katie, it's not --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Somebody is fucking harassing you guys and somebody is harassing and leaving my name. And it's like --
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. So you want me to have them --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- you think I like that?
AUDIO RECORDING: Look, Katie. Think it through. Find out who the fuck it is. That's all that matters to me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. I'm calling straight from my fucking cell phone, because it's fucking bullshit and fucking somebody is trying to fucking pinpoint some bullshit. Like, it's getting aggravating.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, it is. All I'm saying is find out who the fuck it is and tell them to stop playing their games. I don't know who you have to talk to but it's -- it needs to be nipped in the bud before --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. I'm going to handle this shit myself, bro, because this is some fucking bullshit. I'm going to handle it my motherfucking self. call straight from my motherfucking number the fucking -- if Erica wants to call back, be like, oh, is this the right number? Okay. I have your fucking -- whatever fucking shit taken care of. Okay? Because this is fucking bullshit.
AUDIO RECORDING: Find out --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's threats, bro. I'm about to go to the fucking FBI. I'm fucking getting irate with this shit already. It's either the FBI fucking, fucking playing games or fucking whatever it is because I'm fucking --
AUDIO RECORDING: NO.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- getting pissed.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. well, find out. All I'm saying is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And they fucking give a wrong phone number.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Because you're an idiot. You gave a fucking wrong number. Get the fucking number and the fucking call because I'm going to call them.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And fucking text it to me. I don't even fucking give a shit about all these fucking codes shit, whatever shit anymore.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm pissed the fuck off. Like, I'm going to fucking go to the cops right now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. well, either you go to the cops or we go to the cops or find out --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- or find out --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: we're both going to fucking go to the cops, because this is fucking bullshit.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, find out who the fuck this is, because this person evidently knows you and knows your family. And they know me --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and they know my family.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And you don't, you don't think that fucking scares the shit out of me? Like, somebody fucking saying my name out loud or whatever.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, Katie. Don't mess -- okay. Someone's messing with you, they're messing with me. Someone's messing with me, they're messing with you. It's one and the same.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: So what I'm saying is find out who the fuck it is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That number doesn't even fucking work. If you can get ahold -- go to different offices, call the motherfucking number. See if that fucking number works. Bottom line. Because I've tried myself and that shit does not work.
AUDIO RECORDING: Katie, call them. Find out who the fuck it is now. Trust me on this. Find out who the fuck it is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get the number. Listen to me and get the number and stop playing around with these games because I'm --
AUDIO RECORDING: I already --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- going to go with your parents to the fucking FBI, whoever is fucking doing this shit and fucking go and fucking report whoever is harassing me.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Katie --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Katie, do you have the -- I got to get back to a patient. Do you have the number I gave you the other day?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I have the fucking number and I told you --
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Good. Call it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Listen. I called the number. It's not --
AUDIO RECORDING: I know you --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- a working number.
AUDIO RECORDING: Good.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get the number that called your fucking office.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Listen to me for once.
AUDIO RECORDING: I will. Do you want me to call Erica?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Shit. Fucking A, bro. I'm going to fucking fuck up whoever is fucking with me.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to call my mom and have my mom call the office.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get that fucking number, because now you're fucking parents -- that number's been called, and that's not a working number. It's either somebody's playing games, somebody is tapping into some shit, and somebody is just trying to fucking aggravate somebody .
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Let me, let me --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And I'm aggravated.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you want me to have Erica go on the caller ID and look to see what number that was that --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- called?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get the fucking number. Obviously they're calling from somewhere else if it's not the same number that you said. How about you call and find out --
AUDIO RECORDING: Try -- okay. Do me a favor. Try that number I gave you the other day, and I'm going to call my mom and tell her to call Erica and ask her to look it up on the caller ID. Okay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get it. Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Call it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: whatever --
(State's Exhibit No. 138-DD concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Agent Sanford, Ms. Magbanua is heard on this call telling Mr. Adelson that she has personally called the undercover number. Had she?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she had not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And there's discussion about both of them potentially going to law enforcement. Did anyone go to law enforcement?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, they did not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was the number in fact a working number?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Next I'd like to go to EE. what can you tell us about EE?
PATRICK SANFORD: EE is on 4/28 of '16, at 11:17 a.m. It's Charles Adelson calling Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm sorry. Say it again.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's Charlie calling Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And is this the same day as the one we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is. It's about -- it's 11:17. So less than 30 minutes later.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's publish EE, please.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-EE is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm going to *67 and see if it -- and see what it is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Do that.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. You haven't, you haven't heard anything from this nonsense, have you?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Say what?
AUDIO RECORDING: You haven't heard anything from any of this nonsense.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. Obviously, we're on the same page.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Let me, let me do that and see where we are.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-EE concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And does Mr. Adelson, at this point, dial the undercover number?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he does.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is this the first person to dial that number since it was handed to Ms. Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And this is going to be call GG. Could you give us the date and time?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's 4/28 of '16 at 11:33 a.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And this is the call from Mr. Adelson to the undercover?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: GG, please.
(Pause. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Can you remind us how long it's been since that number was initially handed to Ms. Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: This was on the 28th, and the initial bump was on the 17th.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I think we're ready to publish GG.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-GG is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hola. Diga. Hello. Diga.
AUDIO RECORDING: who's this?
AUDIO RECORDING: who's this?
AUDIO RECORDING: Someone's been calling my family. I'm trying to figure out who this is.
AUDIO RECORDING: In reference to what, man?
AUDIO RECORDING: Someone by the name of Sammy called.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. That's me, man.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. what's, what's going on?
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, what's going on is my brother, Tato. Okay. My brother Tato has not been taken care of. His family has not been taken care. I talked to -- why are you calling me? who, who are you? I gave the number to a lady.
AUDIO RECORDING: TI don't know Tato.
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't know Tato?
AUDIO RECORDING: No.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm sure you know Katie and Tuto. They've been taken care of since the family problem been taken care of up north.
AUDIO RECORDING: TI don't, I don't know who these --
AUDIO RECORDING: I, I --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- people are.
AUDIO RECORDING: You don't?
AUDIO RECORDING: NO.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's not going away, my friend, because let me tell you something. I was in Broward with Tato, and he told me the whole story. He told me nobody was taking care of him. Nobody was taking care of his family. The family was taking care of Katie and Tuto, and nothing's been taken care of with Tato. So we know. We know what's going on. And Tato needs to be taken care of. Do the right thing. The lady already has the paperwork. She knows what I'm talking about. we know Katie. we know Tuto. we know they've been taken care of.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Let me, let me look into things.
AUDIO RECORDING: No more, no more fucking around, man. No more fucking around. This ain't going away. We need -- Tato needs -- you guys need to do the right thing for Tato. That's my brother, man. That's my brother, and he needs to be taken care of. His family needs to be taken care of, just like Katie and Tuto have been taken care of.
AUDIO RECORDING: TI don't -- I've never met, met these people. But let me call you back. Okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: That's bullshit, man. You know exactly what I'm talking about. You know this lady -- I don't know your relationship to this lady, but you know what the fuck is going on. This ain't going away.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Let me call you back.
AUDIO RECORDING: Take care, take care of Tato just like you take care of Katie and Tuto, man.
AUDIO RECORDING: Let me call you back.
(state's Exhibit No. 138-GG concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Do we have some unanswered calls after the GG call that we just listened to?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we do.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Tell us about those, please.
PATRICK SANFORD: At 11:39, which is approximately just a couple minutes after that last call, Charlie Adelson attempts to call Katherine Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And she didn't answer?
PATRICK SANFORD: She did not answer. And then again at 11:40.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: So immediately after the first unanswered call, he calls again?
PATRICK SANFORD: Exactly.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And then what? Let's go to HH.
PATRICK SANFORD: At 12:41 p.m., Katie returns -- Katie Magbanua returns the call to Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So this is still 4/28/16?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's true. That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Publish HH.
(Pause. )
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. We're ready.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-HH is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Can you give me two minutes?
Okay. Hang on a second.
I called the number.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: = Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: It rang, like, seven or eight times, and then somebody pick up. And sounded like -- he, he, goes, you know, who is this?
And I said, I'm returning a call.
And he said, what is this in reference to? So the guy that called my office this morning --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- said Simon. So I said --
AUDIO RECORDING: Someone by the name of Simon --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- placed a call this morning.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I go, what's -- I go, what's this about?
He's like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- who are you?
I go, that's, that's not important.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: what do you need? You there?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, I'm here.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I said, I said, it's not important who I am. I said, what can I do to help you out? (Inaudible.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he said, listen, man. He's like, Tuco [sic], whatever the fuck his name is, he's like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- someone did a really big favor for you and was there for you and we know -- you know, I'm -- listen, I'm Tuco's brother and --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I was with him in Broward. So I don't know if this guy is from Broward or whatever. He's like, I was with him down in Broward --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and he hasn't been taken care of. His family hasn't been taken care of. And he's like, it's fucking bullshit. He's like -- and he -- after I'm letting him talk, as --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- he's talking, I'm hearing a little bit of a New York, um, New York accent --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- you know, as he's trying to -- you know, when he picked up the phone, he didn't sound like a tough guy when he picked up the phone.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: But it was like, as he was talking to me, like, the tough guy routine sounded like it was coming out. So he's like, listen. He's like, I was with -- I know you're -- I know you guys took care of and you're taking care of Katie and Tuto and you're taking care of their family. Now he needs to be taken care of. And I was with him in Broward and he's done a big favor for you.
And I go, sir, you know, I don't know -- he goes, I know you've been giving money to, to Katie and Tuto and taking care of their family.
I go, no money's been given. I said, I don't even know who these people are. And I don't, I don't know what you're talking about.
And he's like, who are you?
I'm like, listen. It's not important. I said, I don't know what you're talking about. No one's paying anybody.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he's like, well, listen, man. This shit's not fucking going away. You better fucking do the right -- he was like, it's not going away.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, so he started saying bad words?
AUDIO RECORDING: what's that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So he started saying bad words?
AUDIO RECORDING: He, he may have said a bad -- he may have cursed. But he goes --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- he left it with -- he goes, listen. It may have been like, this shit or whatever. He goes --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- this shit is not going away, and you need to, you need to help Tuto's family -- whatever his name is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- out the way you're helping out Katie and Tuto. And I go, nobody -- I don't know who you're talking about, and I don't, I don't know what I can do for you. I said -- he goes, you know -- he goes, well, this is not going away. And he said -- he says, do the right thing. You got to help him out. which, when I first --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You should have been like, who are you? Number one.
AUDIO RECORDING: If -- well, he told me he was his brother. Obviously, he's not going to give me his real name. And I was being really polite to him. Like, I've got --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Hold on one second.
You got it? Okay. Give me two minutes, and I'll be right there.
I was being really polite and --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. He said he's a brother from Broward?
AUDIO RECORDING: No, no. He says, I know him from Broward, or I saw him down in Broward.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I don't know if, like, this guy they're talking about was incarcerated in Broward --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- or held in Broward or wherever. They guy, A, referenced Broward.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: B, referenced Katie and Tuto --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So they're saying my name, again. Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. So your name and, and some other guy's name I don't give a fuck to know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know, he's saying -- talking about Tuco, which I don't even fucking know who that is. So that's two people I don't know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: And he's talking about your family, saying your family is being helped out, which I don't fucking know. I mean, other than the hours I give you to go up in the office on the weekend and take care of shit.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Right. Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: But that's -- I do -- I kind of help you out. You fucking earn the money on the weekend when you go up.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And this is the 305 number you called, the 305?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yep. And he, he left it with --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And it rang a long time?
AUDIO RECORDING: I want to say it was, like, on the seventh or eighth ring that it picked up. And he left it --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's a long time because usually --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I know. I was almost like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- phone calls.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I was almost like -- and he was asking me, like, who -- you know, who is this? He goes, he goes, listen. I gave that paper to some -- to a lady. He goes, who are you?
I go, don't worry about it. I go --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I'm trying to figure -- I'm trying to find out what's going on.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: — Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: So, you know, this person is under the assumption that I'm helping --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: They said they're a friend in Broward, or they said they're a brother from Broward?
AUDIO RECORDING: He said he was his -- he said he was this guy's -- some -- this guy who's evidently told my mom he's incarcerated, his brother. And he's saying that he has not been paid, and his family has not been taken care of. And this is not going away.
And I'm like -- I mean, I -- I'm not -- I mean, I don't help -- I don't just give charity out. Like, you come to my office --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Like, you can't be, like --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- you work --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- freaking people threatening you and mentioning me.
AUDIO RECORDING: No.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You know what I mean?
AUDIO RECORDING: He sounded -- honestly, he didn't sound Latin, and he sounded like he had a -- just, you know, there's a little bit of New York accent to his, to his toughness.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh. Sort of like well spoken.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. wasn't -- didn't threaten me at all. Did not threaten me at all. He just let me know, this ain't -- he goes, this is not going away. And --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- you need -- and he's like, you need to take care of him. You need to do the right thing. He was there for you. And I'm like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Right. Uh.
AUDIO RECORDING: I go, I go, I don't know. He goes -- I go, I don't know who this person is. I said but -- I said, I said, let me call you back later. That's how I left it with him. I said, I'll -- I said, sir, I said, I don't know who this guy is you're even talking about --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- but let me give you a call back later. Okay?
He's like, okay. Do the right thing. which do --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Do the right thing? what...
AUDIO RECORDING: -- the right thing, do the right thing, you know, sounds like a fucking cop that's fishing, that's an investigator, or someone's playing games.
But I don't, I don't -- he's coming up with a lot of fucking details, and I'm supposed to know these details, because I don't know two of the people's names they're talking about. I mean, you may, you may be the wrong Katie. Then I'd feel even more like a dumbass.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly. Just what -- a little quick recap, just because I don't want -- like, you know, like, how did, how did, like, the conversation start?
AUDIO RECORDING: It rang and he goes, who is -- he goes, hello?
I go, hi.
He goes, who is this?
And I go, I'm returning a phone call.
And he goes, what is this in reference to?
So I said --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's exact words?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yep. He goes, what is this in reference to?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Reference to. Wow. He used some educated words.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. He was well spoken when my mom met him. He was like, what is this in reference to?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I said, I'm returning a call that Simon -- I'm returning a message that Simon had left this morning.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That was the name, Simon?
AUDIO RECORDING: That was the name when he called up my office --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and spoke to Erica and said, listen. I gave a piece of paper to Ms. Adelson last week with a number on it. Tell her to call me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: And this is Simon.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: So --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I said, I said, okay. I said, I said, I'm returning a message from Simon.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: So then he knew that it was in reference to this fucking nonsense.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I said -- you know, what I told you. I said, you know, I go -- he goes, well, I know that your family -- the family is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- giving money -- he kept, he kept referencing that, like, we're giving all this money to a fucking family, like, and referencing -- there's two names. There's Tuto and Tuco, or whatever, that supposedly --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I'm giving money to you and some other dude and your family.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know these people. Never met them. So it's real interesting --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And you think he's a broth -- is he brothers with this person that he's saying that's incarcerated?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. He's saying he's his brother who's incarcerated.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And he's saying from Broward.
AUDIO RECORDING: He said he's -- he said -- he referenced something that I was with him in Broward.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I was with him in Broward.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I don't know. Is this guy incarcerated in Broward County? Is he from Broward? I don't know who these, who these people are. But I don't like the fact that they're --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Definitely.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- referencing you --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Definitely.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and, and your family. And who -- I don't know who this dude is that you're with, or if they're just making up names or --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- if I should -- if we should just go to the FBI and say, you know what, let's play phone tap.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I don't -- you know what I'm saying, though? I don't want --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You should have been like, well, you're doing a lot of threats, No. 1. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about, No. 2.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, he never, he never said he was going to her. And he -- I just wanted him to keep talking.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's why I wanted to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Just to get a feeling of who the person is?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Because he wasn't like, you know -- he was wanting to know who I was. I go, it's not important --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and he said -- but when he left it, he goes, listen. He goes, you gave him money. You need -- he has not been paid. His family hasn't been paid. It's fucking wrong and -- or, like, it's wrong. And he goes, this ain't going away. He's like, do the right thing. Take care of him. He helped you out. I'm like -- I go, I go, I don't know --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But who? who?
AUDIO RECORDING: I go, I don't know him. TI go, my family --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Did you pull his teeth out or what? Like, what the fuck does that mean?
AUDIO RECORDING: Listen. It could be a lot of things.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Is he a patient? You run across so many people every day.
AUDIO RECORDING: Listen. In two seconds, you -- we read something in the newspaper and they Google a last name, and in three minutes the homeless man today has the technology to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- know where you live, where you work --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Right. Because now they're calling me and -- I was in a meeting. I stepped out. Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Let me --
AUDIO RECORDING: So --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- let me find out who the fuck it --
AUDIO RECORDING: Listen --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- is referencing all of this.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, they're --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I will call that number.
AUDIO RECORDING: They're picking it up whether you want to call it or if, you know, a friend that could be convincing to tell someone to, like, stop this shit.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (305)712-6570, correct?
AUDIO RECORDING: 65 -- yeah, (305)712-6570.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: They need to know that this -- I'm not -- you know, I -- it's fucking stupid what they're doing.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Nothing -- I'm not paying anything --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- Cindiscernible) guilt and there's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. No. what the hell are you talking about?
AUDIO RECORDING: The only thing I want to do is collect my reward from the FBI if I know who it is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Of course. No. I want these people to go, I want these people to go to jail for, like, freaking, like, threatening.
AUDIO RECORDING: Dude, you know what kind of vacation I can get with that money?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: I need a fucking vacation.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Let me, let me go ahead and go in.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I'll talk to you later. call me later.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right. Thanks. Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-HH concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. After HH, we go to II, which I believe is a text. what can you tell us about II?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was from Katherine Magbanua to Mr. Garcia on 4/28, at 12:57 p.m.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And how long after the conclusion of that call we just heard did Ms. Magbanua text from Mr. Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: At the conclusion of the call -- it was about an 11-minute call. So just a few minutes after, few minutes after the call.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what's the context of the text?
PATRICK SANFORD: It says, baby, call me when you can.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And does that call happen?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's go to JJ. what's JJ?
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh. Yes. Katie calls Garcia at 1:22 p.m., on the same date.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So she tells him to call her, but he doesn't; she ends up calling him first?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And this is about 20 minutes later, after the text?
PATRICK SANFORD: After the text, correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'd like to publish JJ.
(Pause. )
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. JJ.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-33 is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Hello? Hello?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hel10?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hey. Are you busy?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yes.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Or you just woke up? oh, my God.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Eating a sandwich.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: My freaking neck -- eating a sandwich, again?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. A sandwich, a ham and cheese sandwich with mayonnaise and mustard.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Ew. Yuck. Okay. No. My head is pounding.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (Inaudible. )
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. T have, like, a migraine right now. I walked in --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (Inaudible. )
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and it's, like, a meeting outside. There's, like, a meeting outside. I guess they have meetings on Thursdays. And then I had my own meeting in a conference room. Ay, ay, ay.
Okay. I have more information for you. And when I got a call this morning, like, I, I couldn't, I couldn't even take it, because I had to step out of my meeting because I just heard about it. And I was like -- because I got a call back to back to back. So -- hold on. Give me one second. I don't want my boss to come out. what was I going to tell you?
Okay. So this person contacted the office. Hello?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: whatever. Supposedly, he said his name was Simon. Okay? Contacts to the office, saying, oh, whatever. I had given a piece of paper to this person there. Obviously, somebody's doing whatever they're doing. They're threatening. And, like, they're very, very close to reporting it already. whatever it is, he's getting pissed, because my name's involved and because -- this gets better. So I'm like, you know what, cut the bullshit. Just tell me everything on the phone right now, because I don't have time. I'm fucking working, like, what, what is it? Like, I want to handle this and I want to handle it right now. So they said, okay. They called the office.
I was like, look. I've tried to contact that number. It's, like, not a working number. They're like -- I was like, why don't you go ahead and *67 and call the freaking number and whatever. That person did it. They go, okay. I'm returning a phone call.
And then the person goes, who are you?
And they're like, it doesn't matter. I'm returning a phone call regarding something of a paper, or whatever.
And then they're like, okay. Well, we know you've been helping out. They said my name and your name and I --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: wait.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yes. They said Kate -- they said Katie and Tuto?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. They said our name. That you've been helping them out. And he's like, I don't even know what the fuck they're talking about. I don't even know. I only -- I don't even know if you're the right person they're talking about. For all I know, it could be another Katie, or whatever.
And I was like, okay. what else did they say?
They're like, oh, well, they're a brother, they're a brother of this other person that's supposedly incarcerated. And they're a brother of them and that they know him from, from Broward. I don't know if they were together in Broward and he got out, or whatever the case was.
And he's like but this family needs help. Do the right thing. Like, this -- the fact -- he's like, we know for a fact that you're helping them. I'm like, helping who out? Yeah, I've been helped. I work for you people. Like, that's it. well, that's not helping me out. That's me working for you. And I was like, I don't know what they're talking about. So -- they said, do the right thing.
His name is supposedly Simon. They're a brother of the person that's incarcerated, and they said that name. And I was like, no. This needs to stop. Like, this needs to stop, because somebody's harassing me, somebody's harassing your family, and they're putting my name and then our -- and that other person's name. It's getting too detailed. It's somebody that -- you know, for sure.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: For sure. He said the other person had -- like, he was trying to get them to talk more. He's like, the person has, like, maybe a New York accent. He -- some of the words was a little bit, you know -- like, he wasn't threatening at all. He was just saying, you need -- it's time for you to help out this person and their family because he needs it because we know that you're helping --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: what person and what family? what person? what family?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Tato and his family because they need it. And then before the -- and he goes, I don't know what the hell you're talking about.
And the person goes, well, do the right thing.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: well, did he tell him, well, listen, you guys keep harassing me, we're going to call the cops?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what I said. I was like, why didn't you just say that? Oh, no. The person said, this is not going to end. Do the right thing.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Did he get the information where he wanted me to meet him?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Get the phone number. Get the phone number.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: The number -- you keep giving me the wrong numbers.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, no, no. (305)712-2657. They picked up. Because I was getting tired of it. I don't know what's happening or whatever but --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: 712-6570.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, no, no. (305)712 -- 712-6570.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: That's what I said.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: who the fuck this is, it needs to stop. They obviously know somebody. They're putting my name, they're putting your name, they're putting --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right. All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and Tato's family.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay? All right.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Are you going to work right now?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (305)712-6750 -- I mean 57 --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Fuck. Just text it to me, man.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Just text it to me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No, I don't want to. 712-6570.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right. Bye.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-33 concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's talk about KK, please.
PATRICK SANFORD: KK was on 4/28, same day, at 1:46 p.m. It's from Mr. Garcia to Ms. Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Garcia to Magbanua?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish KK, please.
(Pause. )
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-KK plays follows):
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello? Hello?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Hello?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. I need to get a fucking phone, again. I was going to cut off my phone and then dump it. That way I got away from la pinga.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: why? what happened?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I was going to call from my phone, bro. And then I was going to get rid of my phone. So I got to call you from my office.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. I mean, call from somewhere else. But, like -- or block it. Don't do it from your office. It's your office. You know what I mean? Don't do it from your phone.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: No. I'm not calling from my office. I'm calling from my phone. Then I just have to dump it, get rid of it. I don't know. Trying to find a fucking payphone is impossible, bro.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No que no Cindiscernible). Just go back to the Cindiscernible).
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right. All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Use somebody -- use a friend's phone. Put Cindiscernible).
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Not yours. A friend's.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Oh, all right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: A111 right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-KK concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Does anybody else call the undercover number after that call?
PATRICK SANFORD: After that call?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. Later on they did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. But I'm looking for, I guess, immediately after.
PATRICK SANFORD: oh, immediate --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It looks like Garcia might be calling from a friend's phone. Did he do that?
MR. ZANGENEH: Objection, Judge. Calls for speculation, leading.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I think the first question was what needs to be answered. was there an undercover call?
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did Mr. Garcia call the undercover from a friend's phone --
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he did not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- is what I really want to know.
Okay. Let's go to LL, please. what can you tell us about LL?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/28/16, the same day, at 2:09 p.m. It's Mr. Garcia calling Ms. Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So this call -- is this about 25 minutes after the one we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Let's publish LL, please.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-LL is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (305)712-6570. You still have the number, right?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Say it one more time, 305.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: 712-6570.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: All right. It's some fucking Puerto Rican, Mexican, shit, I don't know who the fuck. I don't know. I'm going to try to call them again, bro.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I need to get this fucking -- I'm going to call -- real fucking person. I'm going to call them from my fucking phone. (Inaudible). All right. Bye.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Is -- remember that other one? Do you think it's that one?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It sounds like a fucking -- the message sounds like a Nuyorican nigger.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Di y le doy a puto. I'm busy -- on the answering machine. Call me back. Dale. Like, what? I don't know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what the answering machine said?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Shut up.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: That's what it says. I swear to God.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Shut up.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Swear to God, bro. The answering machine says, hey, puto. I'm busy. Ya voy pa tra. when I got time. Dale.
Like, what the fuck? It's like, yo, are you stupid? Are you some kind of fucking moron?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what they told you?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: No. That's what the answering machine says when you call the number. No one answered the phone.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Huh. Okay. That's weird.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: That's odd. That's what I'm saying.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Very. Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Are they fucking -- are they that stupid they have to use the number, or do they pretend to be that stupid so we think they're that stupid?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I don't fucking under --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: They sound like they're Nuyorican.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: New York, Puerto Rican.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Nuyorican.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh. Broward.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: A 305 number. It's not even in Broward.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. But I'm saying -- you said Broward.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: The nigger is Cindiscernible). It sound -- and sounds like, it sounds like -- it doesn't sound like -- I don't know, man. I don't know.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: A111 right.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-LL concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. In call LL, Mr. Garcia indicates he called the undercover number and got an answering machine. Did the undercover number have voice mail?
PATRICK SANFORD: It did. He did call the answering machine. He didn't speak to the undercover, though.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And was that before LL or after LL?
PATRICK SANFORD: That he got the answering machine?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes.
PATRICK SANFORD: It was -- I believe it was before LL.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Tell us when he called. I had that incorrect in my notes.
PATRICK SANFORD: when he called the undercover number?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes.
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe it was before the answering machine call. He actually got the voice mail of the undercover. He did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And so that was just prior to LL?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I'm sorry. I had that out of order. But he did or did not leave a message?
PATRICK SANFORD: He did not leave a message.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And then can we go to MM?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
(Pause. )
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Did you find it?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what can you tell us about MM?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/28, the same day, at 4:58p.m. this is Charlie Adelson calling Katie Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So this is about three hours after the LL call that we just heard?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. We're ready for MM.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-MM is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello? Hello? Hey. Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Can you hear me?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Hold on. Hold on. Give me two seconds. Let me just walk out.
Thank you.
Okay. Um, so it was weird. I called the number, right? And, like, the answering machine, they have like something in the answering machine now. Like, what the fuck? Like, some ghetto guy, like, talking on an answering machine and said one of the names you said. Like, I don't understand the joke. I don't get it.
AUDIO RECORDING: So it was just an answering machine. No one spoke to you?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. Like, they didn't pick up.
AUDIO RECORDING: And, like, were they talking all --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And the answering machine, all of a sudden -- I don't know. Like, because I can't hardly remember. Like, my friend has to, like, find out for me, you know? And it was like they, they said -- I don't know if they said their name was whatever, that Tuto or Tato, whatever shit they had on the answering machine, all of a sudden. Now, now it has an answering machine. Like, a voice mail, I mean.
AUDIO RECORDING: what did the voice mail say?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Dale. I, I don't know. Let me find, let me find out, because it's like I can't, like, really talk at work, and then I couldn't --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- understand.
AUDIO RECORDING: Call -- when you call, do you call with, with the call block?
AUDIO RECORDING: Did you call --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But, it doesn't matter. No matter what phone you're using, it still show -- you know?
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, it show -- it doesn't show who's calling, though.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. I know how to block a call.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's not the point but --
AUDIO RECORDING: *67. I did that. It rang seven times.
I'll be there in one minute. Without Tylenol? Um, Vicodin is acetaminophen. It's ibuprofen. It's not Tylenol. Yeah.
Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Ay. You know, it's, like, fucking lady, get the fuck out of the way, you stupid ass.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I would, I would do this. I would, I guess, just call again later and --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, I'm going to start -- you know what, with all this crank [sic] calling, I'm going to call from every fucking body's fucking phone and fucking leave him a message on everybody's fucking phone -- from everybody's phone. You want to play games? I'll play games.
AUDIO RECORDING: Really fucking odd because they --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's weird. They picked up --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- it picked up on the --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- for you.
AUDIO RECORDING: And they, they called and -- I mean, the only thought in my head would be is -- except that one thing. Maybe you could find out or I'm going to wait a couple days. And then I may call the person back. So the person was -- when they answered the phone, first, they weren't that ghetto. And as they started talking to me, they started acted -- talking more tough. But it was more of like a -- I could hear a New York accent in there. And it sounded like a white guy.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. No, no, no. The voice mail sounded Nuyorican. But I got to find out what's going on. But I'm saying I'm going to, I'm going to call from somebody else's phone because I don't want my pho -- because you know I use this phone for work.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right. And, and the thing is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And the last thing I need is, like, somebody crank calling me.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right. Listen. One thing is this. Either that person would want to meet someone and talk to them about what their issue is or I want to ask the person --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- and say --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: They're going to have an issue, because, um, you don't just go threatening people, throwing out names.
AUDIO RECORDING: They're, they're saying that I'm helping a Ka -- or not me. But my family is helping a Katie and her family and some other guy that's named, you know, with a "T" that I've never -- I'm like, dude, I don't -- never met any of these people. He goes, well, not you but the family has been, and they've been helping them -- her and her family and this other guy.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You haven't met but then they're -- like, makes no sense to --
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, he asked me who I was, and I was like, none of your business. So I was almost -- well, in hindsight, what I should have said was, who -- because I have a big -- because this is a big family and there's lots of cousins.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: who, who in my fam -- the Adelson family is a big family.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: what I should have said to the guy is, who in my family, who in the Adelson family --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- owes somebody money? Give me the name --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Of course.
AUDIO RECORDING: Give me the name and then I will go to that person in that family and say, who did you not pay?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: I want to know the name, I want to know the name. The only name they keep throwing out is that this, that this Adelson family is helping out Katie and some guy named "T" and their family. And this guy needs your help. And it's not right. And he's like, this problem is not going away. He was, this is not going away. He's like, it's fucked up --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- that you're not helping.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's a threat right there. That's fucked up that you're not helping? Like, who the fuck are you? why the fuck -- like, who are you?
AUDIO RECORDING: Listen. That's like me calling someone up and being like, yeah, I know you killed JFK. You need to pay me. Okay. well, guess what? You didn't kill JFK.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That is the wrong example. Like, what does that have to do with anything? I don't get it.
AUDIO RECORDING: My point is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You always use that example. Like, I don't get it.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, because JFK died in 1963, and you weren't born then. My point is, is that -- my point is I had nothing to do with this craziness. I want to know who did -- who in my family owes somebody money, because I'm going to go to that person and say, what's going on? That's what I'm --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: The next, the next conversation I have with this person is, is going to be me -- if it comes to it, me saying, who owes money? If someone owes money, you got to give me a name. Not like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: who in my family does --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: where do you want to meet?
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, my mom --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: who are you?
AUDIO RECORDING: -- my mom, my mom doesn't know who any of these people are. My dad --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. I want to set up --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- doesn't know who any of these people are.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- whoever this fucking person is trying to fucking say shit or do whatever it is to your family, starting to harass your family, like, it's getting me mad. So fucking mad.
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know. I don't know why they keep bringing up people I have never met. That's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: See, that's why -- it's like, who are you? Number one. Okay. You need something, who are you then? what's your real name? what's your address? who do you have a problem with?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. who, who in my family owes you money? And don't say the last name, because I'm going to go to that and tell them, if you owe this person money, what is it about? Number one. And then I'm going to tell them, go pay them. Okay. You got to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- tell me who to go talk to. Not like, oh, somebody with the last name Adelson. well, guess what? That's like, saying someone with the last name --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And calling your office --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- of Rodriguez.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and shit. Like, what is that?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Someone with the last name Rodriguez. well, give me the fucking first name, and I will go talk to -- if it was my brother who is behind this, I'm going to fucking find out. I mean, fuck. If it was my brother, I'll turn him in and get the reward money. My brother's a piece of shit.
So I'm saying, like, give me the name of who owes your friend or friend's family money. And this guy said to me -- he said, listen. I was with him up in Broward. I know everything that went on.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I was up with him in Broward. That's what --
AUDIO RECORDING: Talking about --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- I'm trying to understand.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Talking about Broward.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I was up with him in Broward doing what?
AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know. It's some guy he's talking about.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Is it a family member? That he said he's a family member --
AUDIO RECORDING: He said he was his brother.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- of somebody who was incarcerated.
AUDIO RECORDING: He said it was this -- that guy's Tuco, or whatever's brother. He said, I'm his brother, who was with him up in Broward when he told me what -- everything that had happened. That's exact --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So up with him in Broward and --
AUDIO RECORDING: TI don't know --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- everything that happened.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I don't know if he was in jail with him, visiting him in jail. I don't know if he was --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: He needs to, he needs to, like, fucking -- if -- like, people can just be fucking Googling shit or whatever it is --
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, and that's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- and --
AUDIO RECORDING: Well, exactly. And the only reason I'm even bothering calling you is because they keep wanting to talk about you. or if I -- it's the wrong person, then I feel even horrible. But this person doesn't matter. Like, they're still harassing my fucking family, and I want it to stop. I mean, when you, when you meet someone face-to-face on the street, when you send them a letter, and then when you start calling their office, the next call is to the FBI.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: And --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. I agree. I would personally --
AUDIO RECORDING: And my thing is this --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- go there --
AUDIO RECORDING: TI don't, I don't want anyone to go to jail, because you know what? People get mad when they go to jail, and they feel like they have to get somebody back. The same reason when, when my jet ski got stolen, I did not -- I don't even care who fucking stole it. It's insured. Give me my money back. It sucks it got stolen. Move on. I wouldn't want to catch the guy who stole my jet ski. why? It's grand theft. I don't want to put anyone in jail who knows where I fucking live.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. But you know what? If this person keeps fucking saying shit, then they need to start giving information. They need to start saying something instead of --
AUDIO RECORDING: They need to, they need to tell me who owes the money.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Not a fucking psychic. Nobody's a psychic.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: I mean, my family --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what's the problem, exactly?
AUDIO RECORDING: My family's got lots of members. So -- or it could have been a cousin of mine. It could have been my brother. Like, who, who owes the money? And I will call that person now.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And what money? Like, who -- like, you know, you could -- I could threaten anybody, saying, you can't do that. Like --
AUDIO RECORDING: No. But let's see --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- if somebody calls my phone back, like, I don't -- I'm always like, hey, who is this?
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm just, I'm just curious to see who's so interested in your family and what's going on.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's why. It's like -- that's why it's pissing me off. It's like, why, why am I --
AUDIO RECORDING: Katie --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- being thrown into something?
AUDIO RECORDING: If they weren't talking about you and some other guy whose last -- whose name goes by "T" -- 7t seems like everyone goes by "T" these days. But whatever the guy said their name is -- he said it so quick, I don't even remember. He was talking about you, your name, and then some other guy's name that begins with a "T."
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But you're just saying too much now. TI don't even know what the fuck you're saying. You're --
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm repeating to you what the guy said that --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. JI heard you the first time but it's like --
AUDIO RECORDING: And that's the only reason --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- now you're just --
AUDIO RECORDING: I know but I'm saying --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- fucking repetitive and --
AUDIO RECORDING: Sorry. I always do that.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- like, becomes nonsense.
AUDIO RECORDING: The only reason I called you is because this guy is bringing you guys up, which has nothing to do with me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know a million people that starts with a "T." I know a million. I knowa, a T -- a, a freaking a Tavia, a freaking Taco, a freaking -- bro, everybody has a nickname. Like --
AUDIO RECORDING: And I'm so bad with names. I think I called the guy Simon or Sammy or -- I don't even know what the fuck I called him.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Fucking Simon, that is such a fucking white person's name.
AUDIO RECORDING: But then, like, I told my mom I called Simon. My mom goes, Sammy. I go, oh, it begins with an "S." I fuck everyone's name up.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Now it's Sammy. You're like, oh, he responded. Oh, what is your last name? what is your, what is your address, so that I can send your mother a fucking letter or, or meet your mother in the freaking middle of the street.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Let's find --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's going to be the next call.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yep. Let's find him.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: A111 right.
AUDIO RECORDING: What's his, what's his problem? Because he's about to have a big problem.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: He's going to have a fucking big, ass problem.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Then I'm going to go -- oh, my God. I am the fucking wrong person to -- God forgive him that he fucking said the wrong fucking name, because now it becomes my business.
AUDIO RECORDING: (Indiscernible) their name as signs of reference. All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: TI hate that shit.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know. Did you ever get a chance --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I fucked bitches up for no reason.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- to pick up that package? You never picked up the package, did you?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I mean, I'm fucking all the way right here that I got to get --
AUDIO RECORDING: All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- Eddie and my kids. I got to see -- I'm trying to figure out if I can go up, like, later on.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Let me know. But I have --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: when do you get off of work?
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm still here. 1'11 probably be at least another hour.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. But I mean, you're going to be home, right?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I1'11 be home -- I should be home by 7:00.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. well, you can meet me half ways and I don't have to drive all the way over there.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know. Okay. I forgot --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I got to tell you, I got to tell you stuff about work anyways. I have a lot of shit that I have to tell you about work.
AUDIO RECORDING: Gosh. All right. I've been getting bad reviews online as soon as I woke up. That's it. But let me --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh, I put nothing but good reviews. What are you talking about?
AUDIO RECORDING: I know. Let me, let me call you later.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. Bye.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
(state's Exhibit No. 138-mMM concludes.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. we'll let the jury step out. Give y'all 15 minutes.
we'll stay in session a moment.
(Jury exits.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: Everyone be seated. were you wanting to make a proffer on Mr. Sanford?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir. Would you like me to proceed?
COURT CLERK: Proceed.
PROFFERED EXAMINATION
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Agent Sanford, I want to talk to you about the Dolce vita recording. Can you explain what it is that you did in reference to the recording that allowed you to produce the transcript that you, that you did?
PATRICK SANFORD: As far as listening to it --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: uh-huh.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- and doing it over and over? I spent weeks and weeks and months listening with noise-canceling headphones and just playing it back over and over, trying to get the best, the best audio to be able to, you know, to make it as audible as possible for me to make out what was being said.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And do you have any specialized training or experience with the FBI to listen to inaudible recordings?
PATRICK SANFORD: Special training? No. I have training as a technically trained agent.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: AS a what?
PATRICK SANFORD: A technically trained agent where I --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what's that?
PATRICK SANFORD: -- can do -- where I do installs, things like that. I do handle technical equipment to be able to facilitate the recordings themselves, going out and deploying the equipment.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. How often have you done this process of listening to difficult or inaudible recordings to try to parse out what's being said?
PATRICK SANFORD: On other cases?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: Dozens of times.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what equipment did you use when you were listening to this particular recording?
PATRICK SANFORD: A laptop.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Any specialized listening equipment? I think you mentioned headphones or...
PATRICK SANFORD: I had noise-canceling headphones and the software that went along with the equipment.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And what's that software?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's a proprietary software.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Through the FBI?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And does the software enhance spoken words?
PATRICK SANFORD: Does it enhance spoken words? I don't know if I could describe it as enhancing special words, no.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: well, why don't you tell me what it does do.
PATRICK SANFORD: It basically does that same thing that some, like, weather Channel people have where it kind of -- it, it minimizes other obstructive noises in the background. So, like, like, on the football field, they use these special kind of microphones and equipment to, to hear the field and cancel out the crowd, basically. So some of the same type of, same type of equipment.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And does the equipment that you were using to -- or the software that you were using to listen to this particular item, does it change anything about the words that are spoken on the --
PATRICK SANFORD: It does not --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- recording?
PATRICK SANFORD: -- change the words, no.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. But it does suppress some of the white noise or the environmental noise on the tape?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And can you estimate about how many times you listened to this thing to get the transcript?
PATRICK SANFORD: Probably well over a hundred.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And what was the type of environment that you listened to the tape in?
PATRICK SANFORD: In my office, with the door shut, by myself.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And is the transcript that you produced an accurate product of what you're able to hear, once you listened repetitively in that environment with that equipment?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Objection, improper bolstering.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: One moment, please, Your Honor.
(Off-the-record discussion.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Obviously, it's not practical for the jury to listen to this thing over a hundred times, but is there a way for them to listen to it with the equipment that you were able to listen to it with?
PATRICK SANFORD: with the headphones you mean?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And the proprietary software.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's possible. I'd have to figure that out if it -- if we were able to do that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How would we do that?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's a good question. I'd have to get the equipment, and I don't know how they would get the headphones hooked up and -- I'm not sure.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I thought we thoroughly explored this and determined that there was no way for them to simultaneously all listen to it.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay. Okay. Yeah. That's -- I don't know of a way.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. All right. Thank you.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Nothing further.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Cross.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Special Agent Sanford, you indicated that what you were trying to do is to take inaudible communication and making it audible. Is that, in essence, what you're trying to do?
PATRICK SANFORD: Trying to make out the words on the recording and trying to minimize the background noise is what I was trying to do, trying to --
MR. ZANGENEH: So in --
PATRICK SANFORD: -- make out what was being said.
MR. ZANGENEH: So, in essence, taking something that normally you can't hear and making it something that you're attempting to decipher what they're saying, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's a fair assessment, I guess.
MR. ZANGENEH: You've indicated you've done this how many times before?
PATRICK SANFORD: Dozens.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you ever testified with regards to this type of altered testimony in state court before?
PATRICK SANFORD: Altered testimony?
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm sorry. With this type of testimony before in state court?
PATRICK SANFORD: what type of testimony? I'm sorry.
MR. ZANGENEH: This test -- where you take inaudible information and convert it with your own -- in, in making a transcript on your own.
PATRICK SANFORD: No. Not with the transcript of my own. No.
(Off-the-record discussion.)
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Are you aware of any peer review processes with regards to the methods and techniques that you use to change what was originally inaudible to now making a transcript of it?
PATRICK SANFORD: Say that again. I'm sorry.
MR. ZANGENEH: Are there any -- okay. The methods that you use, are you aware of any peer review articles with regards to the specialized equipment that the FBI uses?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I'm not aware of any.
MR. ZANGENEH: To your knowledge, has this technology been compared to other technology?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not to my knowledge, that I know of. No.
MR. ZANGENEH: when did you say this technology came out?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's been around a while, from my understanding.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. So when you say a while, does that mean, like, a month, a year, five years?
PATRICK SANFORD: I mean, the technology itself or this particular system? The technology itself is the same thing like weathermen use on the news and sporting events, things like that. That's --
MR. ZANGENEH: So --
PATRICK SANFORD: -- the technology.
MR. ZANGENEH: -- so, like, about a decade?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'd be guessing yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Pardon me.
(off-the-record discussion.)
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: So let me just kind of give a summation. Ask you --
JUDGE HANKINSON: I was listening the first time, Mr. Zangeneh. TI don't need a summation. Do you have anything new you want to cover with him?
MR. ZANGENEH: No, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Thank you.
Mr. DeCoste.
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor.
PROFFERED EXAMINATION
BY MR. DECOSTE:
MR. DECOSTE: Agent, you did this transcript off of the enhanced recording?
PATRICK SANFORD: Some of it I did.
MR. DECOSTE: Using proprietary software of the FBI?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You're not at liberty to be able to tell us about that software?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I'm not.
MR. DECOSTE: You're not able to tell us what algorithm it uses to be able to determine what words are what words?
PATRICK SANFORD: Algorithm it uses to do what? Repeat that, please.
MR. DECOSTE: I think that that answers our question that you wouldn't be able to tell us about the software, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it wouldn't.
MR. DECOSTE: And if we were to try to get a court order to have the FBI turn that over, it still would not be turned over, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: To my knowledge. That wouldn't be my call, though.
MR. DECOSTE: Because that's protected, that's owned, and that's kept secret by the FBI.
PATRICK SANFORD: It is not kept secret. It is protected, though, yes.
MR. DECOSTE: well, it's kept secret, meaning that the only people that know about it work for the FBI, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know if that's true either.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. was a person involved in the enhancement, along with the software?
PATRICK SANFORD: Along with the software, no.
MR. DECOSTE: Did somebody at the FBI sit down, work on it?
PATRICK SANFORD: After I gave them a copy of it, they sat down and worked on the copy of it. Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: Correct. And you remember at deposition we asked you if you could get us the name of the person. You remember that, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: You never got us that name, though, did you?
PATRICK SANFORD: The name's in the report. The -- I didn't personally talk to you about that, no. But the name's in the report.
MR. DECOSTE: You remember in the deposition this year, a couple months ago --
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. DECOSTE: -- I asked you if you could get that name to these prosecutors. Do you remember that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I do.
MR. DECOSTE: You're saying that you've given them that name?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's in the, it's in the reports that I've provided over them.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay. So --
PATRICK SANFORD: Now I can't recall if that -- I can't recall if I actually called them with the actual name, but his report is in the, is in the information.
MR. DECOSTE: There's a 302 report?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's not a 302. It's a lab report.
MR. DECOSTE: And who is this that did this report?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall his name off the top of my -- he's a lab examiner.
MR. DECOSTE: So since our deposition, a lab examiner from the FBI did a report?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. He did it before the deposition.
MR. DECOSTE: But since the deposition, you gave it to these prosecutors.
PATRICK SANFORD: It was on the original CD, I believe. Now --
MR. DECOSTE: I, I ask because we don't have it.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you know what methods this -- and I say unknown person, because it's unknown to me. What methods this unknown person did to enhance the audio?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I don't.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. Turn over to the next topic right now. And I'm going to quote from a footnote in case -- are you professionally skilled in understanding inaudible and indistinguishable tape-recordings?
PATRICK SANFORD: I've never been classified as that, not that I know of. No.
MR. DECOSTE: You're not professionally skilled to do that?
PATRICK SANFORD: In what, in what light? In my professional opinion or some classification? I'm not sure how you're -- what you're asking me.
MR. DECOSTE: I'll re-ask it: Are you professionally skilled in understanding inaudible tape-recordings?
PATRICK SANFORD: Professionally skilled. In my opinion, yes.
(off-the-record discussion.)
BY MR. DECOSTE:
MR. DECOSTE: what, what specialized training did you receive to become professionally skilled in understanding inaudible tape-recordings?
PATRICK SANFORD: I haven't received any training in that exact area, but I've been working on it for over 20 years and, and done it many a times. And...
MR. DECOSTE: Let's talk about that. we're going to jump topics. I'll come back to your training. You said that you've done this before, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Quote, on some of my cases.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. Not all of my cases.
MR. DECOSTE: But those are your words, some of your cases, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: when did I say this? In my deposition or just a little while ago.
MR. DECOSTE: In your deposition.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you trust me that that's in your deposition?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
MR. DECOSTE: And that it's not your everyday job to --
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. DECOSTE: -- do this.
PATRICK SANFORD: Right. It's not.
MR. DECOSTE: But you've done it before.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Can you name for this Court one case where your transcript has been admitted in?
PATRICK SANFORD: I did not say my transcript was admitted in.
MR. DECOSTE: I understand that. But --
PATRICK SANFORD: That's what you're asking me.
MR. DECOSTE: -- has there ever been a case that your transcript has been used?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not that I know of. Actually, I take that back. Yes, I do. Ona prison case against a federal correctional officer where we made recordings on this correctional officer and he had -- I can go further in the case if you want. He had actually committed a fraud against somebody and I did transcripts and that was used in federal court. Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: In what kind of proceeding?
PATRICK SANFORD: A trial.
MR. DECOSTE: For?
PATRICK SANFORD: Criminal trial. Where he was convicted at trial.
MR. DECOSTE: All right. Let's come back over to your training. You have no certifications that allow you to understand inaudible tape-recordings.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you understand the question? what we're saying here it's an inaudible tape-recording so that you would have skills to be able to go into the recording and extract out of it what was inaudible.
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm not familiar with that type of training. No, I have not been to that.
MR. DECOSTE: So you don't have anything like that.
MR. DECOSTE: what about indistinguishable tape-recordings? Do you have any certifications that make you professionally skilled in understanding indistinguishable tape-recordings?
MR. DECOSTE: So it's just a matter of you've done it a bunch of times before; so, therefore, you're professionally skilled?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's a matter of doing the experience and hearing the phone calls, knowing the voices, knowing how they talk, and listen to it over and over and over and being able to distinguish what is -- some of what is being said.
MR. DECOSTE: One brief second, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay.
(off-the-record discussion.)
BY MR. DECOSTE:
MR. DECOSTE: So you listened to the phone calls?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: Just like this jury has done here today. They listened to the phone calls?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. DECOSTE: So you are no more skilled than they are themselves of comparing the phone calls that they have just heard to what would be in the Dolce vita video?
PATRICK SANFORD: I disagree. I've listened to the phone calls many a times. They've listened to them once.
MR. DECOSTE: One brief second, Your Honor.
(Brief pause.)
BY MR. DECOSTE:
MR. DECOSTE: Do you have a current Cv?
MR. DECOSTE: Do you have a CV?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I don't.
MR. DECOSTE: Do you know what a CV is?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: All right.
MR. DECOSTE: Nothing further, Your Honor. Thank you.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Redirect?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, sir.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Florida Supreme Court in Martinez and again in Dav7s v. State, which was a 2013 case, has outlined the procedures for trial court to follow. They've set out four steps.
One, the Court would determine from the recording whether the unintelligible portions make the tape unworthy -- or untrustworthy and therefore excluded altogether.
I've made that analysis. I find there's enough audible information not to cause the tape to be untrustworthy. There are certainly some parts of it very difficult to understand, but I don't find that make it untrustworthy. So I'm going to allow the tape to be played.
As to transcripts, they set out three ways in which a transcript can be authenticated by stipulation, which is, obviously, not the case here. Or the trial court make an independent pretrial determination after hearing from persons who can properly testify as to its accuracy would either be a participant or a real time monitor of the recording with superior ability to hear. Obviously, we have neither of those situations.
And I have left open in footnote five that the State has pointed out that an expert witness with certain professional skill could authenticate -- expert witness professionally skilled in understanding inaudible and indistinguishable tape-recordings could be qualified to make such determination. I don't find that Mr. -- that Agent Sanford falls into that category. He's not an expert witness, so I'm not going to allow the transcript to be used.
I am confident that if we played the tape and gave them a transcript, that at least by halfway through the recording, the jury would simply be reading the transcript. They would be unable to match the transcript with the tape. I made great effort to attempt to do so. I did it initially, thinking it would be relatively simple. was totally unable to. I went back this weekend with headsets and again tried to do it. Again, was unable to do so. I'm not sure that what the Supreme Court has set out for us iS a realistic approach. we don't have the ability to give jurors headsets as we, in the past have been able to do in federal court, where they can hear it real well.
I accept what Agent Sanford has said. I've done it myself, sat and listened to hours for transcripts, play it forward, play it back, listen, again. I know that it can be done. But Florida Supreme Court has not authorized that as a way to authenticate. when you do that, I don't know how it can be used with recording anyway, because what the jury's hearing is not really exactly what you would be hearing as the transcriber, because you're able to move it back and forth and listen very carefully. So I don't know the -- how that's to be done in the future, but I can say that at this point in time Florida Supreme Court has not authorized that.
I did read the cases under footnote five of Martinez. I would note that both those cases were reversals for failing to comply with this. I have not found any case where that was in a straightforward way upheld.
I did find one First DCA case from 1983, Golden v. State, which is 429 So.2d 45, where some portions of a transcript in dispute were used. And it was portions used in cross-examination of a defendant, and they upheld it in that case. In that case, the tape-recording was enhanced and authenticated by Dr. Holbrook, who is a professor at FSU with the qualifications to make such an enhancement, but he wasn't the one actually doing the transcript. It was an agent. That's the only case where I can find a case of that sort has been affirmed where a transcript was done in that way. So I'm not reversing my ruling.
we'll give you a few minutes to take a restroom break. we'll finish up with Agent Sanford.
(Brief recess.)
BAILIFF: All rise and come to order. Court is back in session.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's have a jury, please.
(Jury enters.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: Everybody be seated, please.
You may proceed, Ms. Cappleman.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (cont)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. Agent Sanford, we just concluded the MM call, and I think we'd like to talk about the NN text next. what can you tell us about the text?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was on 4/28 of '16, at 7:39 p.m., and it was from Mr. Garcia to Ms. Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what is the content of that text?
PATRICK SANFORD: It says, I called three times. No answer. And I did not leave a message.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And then is there a call after that, 00?
PATRICK SANFORD: yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Tell us about 00.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 4/28 of 2016, at 7:49 p.m. This is from Ms. Magbanua to Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. This is about ten minutes after the text message?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Let's publish 00, please.
(Pause. )
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Go ahead.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-00 is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: Hello?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. What's going on?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hey. Um, I called that number three times. The first time, like, we left a message in Spanish. And then for some reason, like, that voice mail says puto. You know what puto is, right? Like a bitch. Like, oh, this is puto. Like, why would you have that as your voice mail?
AUDIO RECORDING: In Spanish, it said, oh, this is puto?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, puto. Puto is like -- puto in my language is a food, a type of food. But supposedly that voice mail that they have set up, the guy says, puto, what sounds like puto.
AUDIO RECORDING: And then what does, what does he say on the voice mail?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, it's something in Spanish. Like, you've reached puto, whatever, whatever and he -- and it's in Spanish. So he left a message in Spanish, saying, whoever the fuck this is needs to fucking call me and needs to stop threatening my fucking family.
So -- and then I'll just keep trying.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But they don't pick up. So now somebody's either spooked because what the fuck is going on or -- I don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. well, that's, that's good. That's good. The person's going to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, all the things are running through my head, because, like, with the names you were saying. I'm, like, maybe it's, like, somebody is trying to, like, be -- like, you know, try to be an information or something, or whatever. Like, you know, there were so many things, like, going on.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. And, and I -- I'm thinking the same thing, too. So it's like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But it's like -- yeah. But then you know these people you can trust and then you can't. But then it's like, I don't know. I don't know. I -- honestly, like, it's, like, aggravating me.
AUDIO RECORDING: But listen. It could have been --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm on the phone. Don't talk to me. If I'm on the phone, don't talk to me. Be quiet.
Hello?
AUDIO RECORDING: It could have been someone reading the newspaper and playing games. Like I said --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Whoever it is, they're playing with the wrong person.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. And I don't know how the fuck they got your name, but they didn't use a last name. So if they --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly. It could be anybody.
AUDIO RECORDING: It could have been another, another Katie and another Taco, or whoever the fuck they said. I don't remember the name. But the point is, is that they need to stop.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. Exactly. well -- I'm on the phone. Okay. I don't care but I'm on the phone right now. So don't talk to me right now.
They act like my -- like, I'm boiling. Not like -- you don't even understand. Like, it's pissing me off. Like, pick up the fucking phone.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, now you don't want to pick up the phone? You'll give threats but --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- you don't want to make -- you don't want to pick up the phone?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So it's one of two things.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. No. I got you with that. And I just -- you know, fucking calling, you know --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Basically, he said, hey, you're messing with my family. And if you don't stop, we're going to have problems, in Spanish. So whoever it is, they're going to have a problem with us no matter what.
AUDIO RECORDING: They're going to have a problem with me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Say what?
AUDIO RECORDING: They do have a problem with me, too. I mean --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: Listen. You're going, you're going --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Whoever it is, they're going to have a problem with either one of us. Or even if -- like, I'm in the mix or not.
AUDIO RECORDING: Dude, you're, you're coming up to my fucking mom on the street. Then you're sending letters to their house. And you're fucking calling my dad's office --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: The office. Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- leaving messages. Just like -- that's three times.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. Like --
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, no.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: He was livid, my friend. And I was like, look. Can you do me this favor, because, like, I'm not a guy and I don't know if it's me they're talking about. And I -- and then he's like, that's some fucked up shit.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And he's like, don't worry, not -- like, no matter what, like, whatever it is, like, I'm going to handle it, point-blank.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I, I feel better. I definitely feel better. I, I apologize for not going and getting a Hallmark card, but I, I got a little something. So -- traffic sucks.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm just -- it, it -- it's, like, right now I'm about to go to, like, freaking -- like, I'm taking Zumba classes. I'm, like -- I'm on edge. Like, you don't understand. It's like I want to punch somebody in the face so bad.
AUDIO RECORDING: Picture yourself --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, one thing -- it's like when somebody -- I understand it and I feel for your parents and that's why I --
AUDIO RECORDING: Come to me. Don't come --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- to my parents. Like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- like, my parents are fucking --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what I'm saying.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- old. Like, like, dude --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what are you doing, doing these threats? That's why -- like, my friend understood in that part. I was like, look. You got to understand. Imagine, like, somebody doing this to my mom or somebody doing this to your mom. And that's when, like, got angry. He's like, look. I don't know what it is. I don't want to get into anybody's business, you know, but if they did mention your name, I don't like that, and it's going to be handled.
AUDIO RECORDING: Good.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And the fact that nobody is picking up the phone now, it's, like, frustrating me. Because it's like --
AUDIO RECORDING: And then there was no voice mail before. Now there is.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Now there is. The next phone call is going to be the freaking -- it's not going to be good either way. No matter what way it ends, it's not going to be good for whoever is messing around.
AUDIO RECORDING: No. I mean, it's -- that's it. And listen. I don't want, I don't want some --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I don't want, I don't want any problems. Imagine. Like, look at this -- I'm picking up somebody else's -- you know? Like, I don't even know what the hell is going on.
AUDIO RECORDING: And I -- listen. The last thing I want to do is --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Is involve anybody else.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- some guy -- the last thing I want to do is have some guy who's trying to extort money, go to jail, and then feel like he's sitting in jail because of me. Like, no. Like, fucking just leave us alone. I'm not looking to send people to jail. That's not how I live life. I just need to -- but it's going to happen if this guy keeps doing that. He's -- the police will get involved. we'll get in trouble. I don't want --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah, of course. You know, no threat, especially -- you can't be calling somebody's business. Like, what's wrong with people?
AUDIO RECORDING: well, you can't be sending letters, you can't be showing up on the street, you can't be --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: Like, what I'm going to --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But then it's like -- that's what I'm saying. It's like, what, is this like a setup? You got, like -- like, what's going on?
AUDIO RECORDING: Or it could be someone, like, thinking, like, I'm going to put -- the fact that -- this is it. The next step, also, what I'm thinking is in a couple days. I'll tell the person, hey, give me the name of someone in this family that owes you money, because I'm going to go pay them --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- I'm going to go pay them a visit.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Give me a name. Is it my brother? Is it Robert? Like --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And, and I'll take care of it.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. And I, I will see that if he -- someone owes somebody money, they will pay. But you got to give me a name, because you're talking to the wrong people.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly.
AUDIO RECORDING: And, frankly --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You're threatening other people that you're speaking -- like, who are you?
AUDIO RECORDING: Katie, I have cousins, I've got a huge family --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I've got to get in here. My kids are, like -- you know, they're sponges. They can hear everything and I'm very upset.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you want me to, do you want me to try to meet up with you, or do you want me to just leave it for you to pick up tomorrow?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. If you can.
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you want me to try --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible. )
AUDIO RECORDING: -- to meet up with you?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I, I want to, I want to if you can. But if you can't, you know, we can -- I'll call you when I get out of here.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I was just going to work out. Tell me --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. I know. That's what I'm trying to do because, like, I can't -- I have to go up and see. Like, I can't.
AUDIO RECORDING: Go work out and call me and then I'll --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And I'm going to pretend to work out. Imagine.
AUDIO RECORDING: You what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And I'm the only one that tries to work out. And imagine. I'm, like, really.
Hold your sister's hand. Hold your sister's hand. Bring the jacket.
Hold on. Hold on. I'm sorry.
Don't ever let her walk by herself. You know that. You know better than that.
Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. All right. Hit me up. Let me know --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: we'll talk later, G.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- meet you or you'll pick it up tomorrow.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. will do. I'll call you --
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- in, like, an hour. This is like an hour, as well.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Call me, call me in an hour. Bye.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right. Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-00 concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. I want to go to the next day, 4/29 of ‘16 and call PP.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Could you tell us about the PP, Paul, Paul?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yep. It's on 8:45 a.m., in the morning. And it's a call from Mr. Adelson to Ms. Magbanua.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: From Mr. Adelson to Katherine Magbanua?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Let's publish PP, please.
(off-the-record discussion.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. we're good for PP, please.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-PP is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey. What's up?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So, um, you know what? Just leave it. I wanted to go see you, because I have a lot of shit to tell you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But, I mean, like, you're all the way far west and, like, I --
AUDIO RECORDING: But it's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- don't know what time I'm going to get out.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Or Cindiscernible).
AUDIO RECORDING: Every punch, yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. I know. It's just that even though I'm getting out, getting back, I'm going to have to get the kids. Like, I don't know yet, like -- I can tell him, but he got home really late last night. Because -- it was so funny. Okay. Of course, remember I told you somebody passed away?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Um, and, apparently, you know, you know, obviously, everybody knew this kid. And, for some reason, this girl ended up with my friend's sister, which they don't know each other, until they were at some bar. And then, and then she calls -- she -- I forgot to tell you that she called me, like, two or three days ago --
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- blowing up my phone. Just out of the blue, right? Like, I haven't spoke with her in a long time but it's because I knew she would -- she did that because remember when I had a confrontation in the bar, and, supposedly, that was her roommate?
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So she's a little gossiper. So I guess she wanted to know that she is mad because when I had -- I didn't talk to this guy for a long time, but then I spoke to my friend and he's like, yeah. I spoke to her. She was blowing up our phone in the morning. So I was like, who the fuck is this? And she's like, oh, how do you not know, whatever. we don't -- I don't -- my phone changed. He doesn't say the number. You know what I mean?
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So she's like, oh, yeah. That was my ex-roommate, blah, blah, blah. And, and he -- she's like -- he, he told her, he said, I don't give a fuck. Like, I really don't care for this. Like, I don't care who she was, but she just needed to be out of the freaking bar. Like, she obviously, like, was going to get her ass whooped. All righty. You know?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So -- but what a kawinkydinky, right? So I was like, um -- I put a couple scenarios together. And, yo, this, like, like -- I -- he got in so late because he's like, no, I don't want my sister sleeping o -- she -- her sister -- older sister was, like, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to -- I let her stay over the house. So this girl said, like, I let her stay over my house. I'm like, you don't even fucking know him from a can of paint.
So it was just weird. And then the conversation that they had, she's like, oh, I didn't do it. I was like, what do you mean you didn't even do it? My friend was like, I just want to see my, my -- his little girls. You know? Like, the way you're coming off, I don't know, like, if we're just being, like, cautious about everything, but I have to know the rest of the thing, because they had got home really late.
Like, I was knocked out and I was, like, going in and out of my sleep, because I was getting nervous at the same time. He's like, oh, I'm going to show up to this place with so-and-so. And he's like, I'm going to go pick up my sister, because I don't want my sister sleeping over, whatever. I'm -- you know, like she -- she's -- fell asleep in the house. Like, I -- when I woke up, like, she was downstairs on the couch.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So I'm going to pick her up. But thing is, he's making it play out. And it seems like everybody's, like, caught -- like, you know everybody's, like, offguard with him.
AUDIO RECORDING: All of sudden they -- yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Everybody's fucking, like, scared.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's pretty ironic.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You know, so it's like -- and then the thing was, how come you're not picking up the phone now? Blowing up the phone, then he had the guts to go on her phone and make a call from her phone. Nobody picked up. And then I don't know. I don't know the rest of the story, whatever it is, or if my name is really on anything or if they're even talking about me or whatever it is. Whoever it is, whatever games is going on, I'm going to figure it out.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. It's pretty ironic.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And, and it's obvious that you hear anything because now it's like -- now -- remember I told you, I was like, oh, the -- apparently that -- the message, the voice mail now is in Spanish. So he responded back in Spanish.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You know? Like, I wasn't, what, what, such and such, or whatever. And he's like -- like, he said, like, some mean shit like, oh, like, I'm going to -- whoever the fuck it is or whatever fucking playing fucking games, I'll fucking fuck you up in your motherfucking asshole. Don't mess with my fucking family. It's going to be a big, fucking problem.
AUDIO RECORDING: The accent, being from where it came from, there's not a lot of that. I mean...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's the same accent. He said -- I was -- I, I said it and I was like, the same voice. So now it's being detective. The thing is, like, I'm still cautious about everything else. You know?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. No, no, no. For sure.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's one scenario. But, you know, you've got to figure out everything just in case.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's, it's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- one of two.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It can only be one of two, apparently.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's somebody that's desperate, not from the inside, because there's too much from the inside that the other person knows from the outside.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So they won't risk -- that's why I know for a fact it's not from the inside. It's somebody trying to be greedy. Probably, you know, hey, everybody knew, everybody knew who I've dated in the past and stuff. I've had a couple boyfriends. You know?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: with something out.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's, it's somebody not from the first layer but probably the second layer.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. And they just made a big mistake.
AUDIO RECORDING: Fucking stupid.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Don't fucking worry. Don't worry. Regardless, whatever bullshit is happening, it will be taken care of, for the mere fact that I don't like anybody disrespecting your family, scaring your family after everything you guys have been through. You know? You've told me stuff that's happened before, so it's not like I'm oblivious to it.
AUDIO RECORDING: No. It's out there --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- it's out there everywhere anyway. I mean, it's not...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. But I'm saying, like, you mentioned stuff to me, too. Obviously, like --
AUDIO RECORDING: Of course.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- I've never probed you on it because that's some personal shit. Like --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- I'm going to -- that's, like, none of my business.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's -- well, I just want it to stop.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm hoping that I'm on the right lead. And either way -- my friend said that either way, no matter what, if, for some reason, he is wrong or whatever, like, whatever way it is, it's going to go down. Like, he takes full responsibility of whatever, just because for the mere fact of my name.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. But listen. That's, that's not any -- there's -- I mean, nothing of that sorts.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. But I'm saying if somebody, somebody gets their ass whooped, somebody gets -- you know what I mean?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I mean, if someone, if someone has to get their ass whooped, they have to get their ass whooped.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what I'm saying.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. So I mean --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: When you show face and -- when you show face and everybody is a little stunned...
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. I don't think it's --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm not a good, I'm not a good -- I'm a good reader of people, but some people are just really, really good at it. And I guess that's one talent that they have -- one of many talents.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That may not be solely.
AUDIO RECORDING: Look. I can't wait to find out.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. Me, too. And I really feel bad if they're not even talking about me, because this has become my issue now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: As a friend, I'm doing it because of the mere fact that I don't think any parent should be harassed.
AUDIO RECORDING: Nope.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So I completely, you know, understand where you're coming from, but sometimes you've got to step back and listen to what I got to say, too.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Because there's always different scenarios to everything.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. No. It's not just, it's not just always as it seems.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Exactly. So let me caution you. You fucking never know. There's fucking people that will try to fuck you over every fucking day.
AUDIO RECORDING: Uh-huh.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: As far as you Know, it's a fucking patient. Maybe they've --
AUDIO RECORDING: Look --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- seen me in a dental office in the beach before, where I used to -- you know?
AUDIO RECORDING: No.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: who knows?
AUDIO RECORDING: It's -- it could be, it could be a lot of things.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's what I'm saying. You know? You never know. That's why you got to throw a lot -- a couple things out there. You can't just be fixated on one thing. well, you know people crack. So...
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Oh, no. It's going to, it's going to -- things always come out, and somebody's going to be fucking someone. They're going to be running their mouth, someone getting mad at somebody, you know, start saying, hey, you know who this was and then...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: whoever it is, that's what I'm telling you. Just, like, let me say things out of the blue. You know what I mean? Let me throw some stuff out there, because you can't be fixated on just one thing. Because then it seems like you know too much, which we don't know shit.
AUDIO RECORDING: I agree.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So if I say something, it doesn't mean necessarily, like, yeah, like, I'm not a psychic. If I was a psychic, I would have fucking known who's harassing you or me or whoever the fuck it is.
AUDIO RECORDING: where's Cleo?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: If they have a problem, that's the first thing. Because the next call is going to be the fucking feds. It is. Because it's too much.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yep. And that's -- I mean -- and -- I mean, that's, like, the, the next step.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So this is what I'm saying to you, again. Just listen to what I say.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Don't always go against it or take it to the heart. Don't make it seem like that's really what I mean. Read between the lines.
AUDIO RECORDING: I will.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Go with the flow.
AUDIO RECORDING: I definitely will.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: The, the sky is apparently blue, right? But some people might think it's a little green. Some people think it's white because of the clouds. Just let me say it. Got it?
AUDIO RECORDING: Yep. I miss our old chats.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. Me, too. I mean...
AUDIO RECORDING: I feel like, I feel like we need fireside chats. Just sit by the fireplace and, like, talk about politics. Eat bonbons all day.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Something you never talk about with people is politics and religion.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You will never, ever --
AUDIO RECORDING: TI...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- ever --
AUDIO RECORDING: Ever. Listen.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- be on the same page.
AUDIO RECORDING: You know the two things I fucking can't stand? Religion and politics.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You'll always be my third favorite Jew.
AUDIO RECORDING: Uh-huh.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Shit. I have no motherfucking gas. How --
AUDIO RECORDING: As long as T.I., as long as T.I. doesn't convert, I --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You don't think he'll ever go for me?
AUDIO RECORDING: Understand. I don't want to be Jewish. Then I get knocked down to No. 4.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Ooh, yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Then, you know, it's going to be T.I. then Jesus, then Drake.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Drake.
AUDIO RECORDING: Jesus is going to No. 2.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Indiscernible) --
AUDIO RECORDING: There's no way --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- Cindiscernible) --
AUDIO RECORDING: There's no way --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- Cindiscernible) confused and stuff. I got, I got --
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. But if you had a choice --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I don't go to church every Sunday but I do -- I have -- my kids do pray. They have their little prayer at night and --
AUDIO RECORDING: But mama, mama, mama, if you had your choice, T.I. or Jesus right now? Put it out there.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Hey. Nobody said --
AUDIO RECORDING: You could spend a night with Jesus or a night with T.I., who are you -- pick it. Pick one now. Quick.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's a little scary to spend the night with Jesus. Like, what is he going to let me know and what is he going to show me? Like, I don't want to know.
AUDIO RECORDING: Just asking.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Start picking.
AUDIO RECORDING: You're trying to defend the fact that you'd rather spend the night with T.1I.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I do but I don't want to go to hell for saying I want to go sleep with T.I. instead. Like, I wear a bracelet that has, like, all the freaking sayings from something -- freaking. Yeah. Put that on a bracelet.
AUDIO RECORDING: I got to get you one, I got to get you one of those little bracelets with T.I's. picture on it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You're such a dick. I swear to God.
AUDIO RECORDING: You Know I Know you. wouldn't it be awesome if they sold that? I swear to God I would buy that for you. They're like, oh, what saint is that?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: They're like Cindiscernible) --
AUDIO RECORDING: That's St. T.I.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- some regular store and then you see a fucking bracelet that has T.I. all over it. Yo, I'll fucking jump, like, out of the Cinaudible). Like, I swear to God. If that shit -- like coincidence just happens too much, it's, like, wow. I'll fucking jump off a cliff.
AUDIO RECORDING: That's awesome. So I will, I will leave it --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Indiscernible. )
AUDIO RECORDING: Hey, is that number really tatted on your side?
AUDIO RECORDING: Do you know that's been the code to my garage for the last, like, six years?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, my. why? It has?
AUDIO RECORDING: It's just when I set it up, it just looked like an easy number configuration. That's where you got that number from?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yep. I was like, I will never forget your code. I was like, um, I'm going to be able to go inside his house whenever I want.
AUDIO RECORDING: Definitely. You know --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible. )
AUDIO RECORDING: -- as a kid, we used to write the number on our hand so we wouldn't forget.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Nope. Now we get nice tattoos.
AUDIO RECORDING: Great. You don't have, like, any -- no cell numbers, Social Security numbers, like, written anywhere on you?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: written? Maybe some coordinates, which I really do want to get. I'm going to get the coordinates of where I was born, like the --
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, that's pretty cool.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That is cool, right? Isn't it? Like, I --
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- thought it was a really good idea. Because I don't -- like, yeah. I got, like a -- like, a freaking bee, which like, you know, was a little stupid but it's like a spur-of-the-moment thing and I wanted it and it was cute and it was like, you know, it looks good on my back anyways.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. It's just one bee.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. But it meant something, too, like -- you know?
AUDIO RECORDING: well, it's better than a mosquito.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: But --
AUDIO RECORDING: Nobody fucks with a bee. A mosquito, nobody cares. A mosquito, everyone just walks over and (indiscernible).
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You know what? A bee dies when they sting somebody. when a bee stings another -- something -- or another bee, or whatever, they die.
AUDIO RECORDING: Right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's why I got it. Because I love to fucking sting people.
AUDIO RECORDING: Did you know the humane brain weighs eight pounds?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: what? Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Did you know that bees can smell fear?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That bees can smell fear?
AUDIO RECORDING: You've never seen that scene in Jerry MaguTre with the kid keeps going to Tom Cruise and he's like, did you know that bees can smell fear? Did you know that --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: The little --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- the human head weighs eight pounds? Yeah. He starts doing all this shit to him. It's one thing he says.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Did you know that your hand is supposed to be the same length as -- I mean your reach is supposed to be the same length as your, your feet, right, or your length of your leg?
AUDIO RECORDING: Your head. Yeah. Maybe it's your, your height.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It makes no sense -- that makes no sense to me, because my reach, like -- I don't know.
AUDIO RECORDING: Your wingspan, I think.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I mean your wingspan. Sorry. Yeah. Like, not, like, forward. Like, yeah, wingspan.
AUDIO RECORDING: Maybe your wingspan. Excuse me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Sometimes, you know, the blondness does get to me. It sinks into my head. Plus, you also know that it is Friday.
That is so fucking weird. That's kind of scary that shit -- your shit is on my fucking ribs.
AUDIO RECORDING: My garage door code? My garage door code has been there for, like six years. well, at least you won't forget.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's very significant number. I told you. How did you not know I told you what are -- what I got? I guess you didn't even put two and two together, that you didn't even think, like, your home.
AUDIO RECORDING: TI don't think I...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You've seen it. I've shown you.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. But I think I was just trying to read it. I wasn't focused on the numbers.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Of course. Yeah. No -- it's Roman numerals. (Inaudible.) Sometimes people --
AUDIO RECORDING: It's Roman numerals. I can't read Roman numerals.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You can't even read norm -- read regular numbers.
AUDIO RECORDING: I can re -- they're -- numbers or Roman numerals?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: No. Both. You can't do either.
AUDIO RECORDING: So I'm going to, I'm going to put that stuff back in the...
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh, by the way, my friend also said, like -- I don't know, out of the blue to us. He was like, um, you know what? we should take a vacation this weekend.
AUDIO RECORDING: wait. You're breaking up. Say it again.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: My friend was telling me, he was like, yeah, we should def take a, a -- like, a little thing to take out the kids this weekend. And I was like, okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: Let me ask you this. Do you want to -- they called me again from The Moorings. Do you want me to just tell them --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible. )
AUDIO RECORDING: Negative, right?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: So I'll get something, because I'm going to take the kids.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. Do that.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm pissed off with his mother anyways, even though his mother has been calling me every fucking day.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. Yeah. I, I actually -- I don't even think I called them back, because he fucking pissed me off. They took a month to get back to me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. No, no, no. Screw that shit. Don't worry about it.
AUDIO RECORDING: I'm just going to tell him fuck it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. I'll figure it out. I'll, I'll stay Cinaudible).
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. well, you guys will -- you'll have fun.
I never got a chance to go to Hallmark, so forgive me.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Aww. It's okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: But I wrote, I wrote a little some -- I wrote a little poem.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You're so poetic now. You know, you buy your girlfriend teddy bears and get flowers. You're really --
AUDIO RECORDING: She, she wanted --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- romantic.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- she wanted a Louis.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. But you bought flowers. Trust me. I see everything.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: You think I don't know. I know everything. I know places you go to. I know stuff.
AUDIO RECORDING: Fuck. I did buy flowers.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. You're fucked. Remember the last time that shit happened.
AUDIO RECORDING: what, with flowers?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh-huh.
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, yeah. oh, yeah. That was, like, the one --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible) girl some flowers.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- the one and only time I buy flowers. That's why I don't buy flowers anymore.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: well, you just did.
AUDIO RECORDING: well, I was in big trouble. I had to buy flowers.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Oh. Oh. That was a makeup, I'm sorry flowers.
AUDIO RECORDING: That was a I fucked up --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: That's even worse.
AUDIO RECORDING: Huh?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I said, that's even worse.
AUDIO RECORDING: I know. The only time I -- yeah. It would be the one time I bought you flowers.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. You, like, hello. That was, that was exciting.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible).
AUDIO RECORDING: Oh, God.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I thought it was pretty exciting. I think I'm a very exciting person.
AUDIO RECORDING: That was exciting. who knew the Lexus could drive so fast with a 1200-pound ski on the back.
AUDIO RECORDING: I had, I had a fucking jet ski in the back, and he had two kids in the back.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. well, that was funny.
AUDIO RECORDING: Looking back on it, it was funny.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah.
AUDIO RECORDING: So -- but, yeah, anyway. Come by and -- you know, when you come in, there's the laundry room to your left. In the laundry room, the top, the top left --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: -- it will be, it will be double bagged.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay. So my car won't leak, right?
AUDIO RECORDING: Throw it in the trunk.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Of course.
AUDIO RECORDING: If not, you'll be fine. All right --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: And I've got --
AUDIO RECORDING: -- kiddo.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- shit on my face.
But, regardless, I have to tell you, like, stuff. So, whatever, if you do get out early or something, whatever is -- something changes, let me know.
AUDIO RECORDING: I will.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay?
AUDIO RECORDING: You got it. And if you think there's a chance, if you can go to the hospital, I could break out but -- for, like, ten minutes.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Yeah. No, no. Exactly. Like, maybe if I go swing by and then I'll go by the hospital or something, if I have time.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, if it's -- like, I don't want to say stuff, because it's Friday and I don't know how crazy it is. If I actually have a lot of leave.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. Perfect. You got it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right?
AUDIO RECORDING: I'll talk -- all right. Havea good day.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: It's too quiet. I need to rent out places.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I want good tenants in there, by the way.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: (Inaudible). Help a nigger out.
AUDIO RECORDING: All right. I'll talk to you in a little bit.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Bye, bye.
AUDIO RECORDING: Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-00 concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Agent Sanford, if I could, I'd like to skip ahead to RR. What can you tell us about call RR?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's on 5/13 of 2016, at 4:06 p.m. It's a call from Katherine Magbanua to Charlie Adelson.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: If we could pass out RR, please.
(Pause. )
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Go ahead.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-RR is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Uh, I'm going to get a picture from that -- from the mechanic. It's $90 to align it. So, basically, drop another $400 just on the tires and alignment.
AUDIO RECORDING: It's what?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: $400 I've already spent.
AUDIO RECORDING: Sully could order them and ship them. I mean, you're doing everything on your own, and then bitching about how much it costs rather than have someone who's going to pay for it for you --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. I'm going to go over there and like -- hello, the tire is already messed up. Like, what are you going to do?
AUDIO RECORDING: He, he will pay for it. He will get you the tires or I will. So you want to do things on your own, and then you want to bitch about how much they cost or you want to let someone else take care of it for you and just get it fixed for free. It's your choice but you can't have it both ways.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: why are you so mean to me?
AUDIO RECORDING: Because I will either pay for it or Sully will fix it for free. Then you go ahead and do it on your own, and then you get a bill.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Like, he was already starting to do it. I couldn't --
AUDIO RECORDING: Sure.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: -- drive my car.
AUDIO RECORDING: I got it. Tow it.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I just had --
AUDIO RECORDING: Let Sully order the tires and pay for them and have them delivered. They always order tires. They don't keep the tires in stock. They order them for every job. There's a million different types of shades and everything. So Sully will order them and pay for them or I will through Sully.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know. But I mean, I'm going to tell them, like, hello, that was, like -- but he knows I took it to another job. Like, he knows who the --
AUDIO RECORDING: Call Sully now.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I don't have a picture yet. I want to be able to show him.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. At least --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm getting a picture --
AUDIO RECORDING: Call him and let him know what's going on and tell him you're going to text him the picture.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: Okay.
AUDIO RECORDING: will you do that for me now?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I'm going to do it now.
AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. I mean, it's like you going to a different dental office and telling me that they charged you a bunch of money. I'm like, come to my fucking office. I'll take care of it for you. I mean, you work there. All right.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: I know.
AUDIO RECORDING: Call Sully now.
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: All right. Bye.
AUDIO RECORDING: Bye.
(State's Exhibit No. 138-RR concludes.)
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Agent Sanford, that call was on May 20 -- May 13th, correct --
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- of 2016?
All right. I want to fast-forward to May 24th, 2016. Did you conduct an interview on that day?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. Could you tell the jury about that interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: went up to Mr. Garcia's employment --
MR. ZANGENEH: Judge, can we approach sidebar?
(Sidebar discussion held as follows):
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: Thank you, Judge. So here's my concern. And I understand Ms. Cappleman and I have had, I have had communications about this up until this morning. What is going to happen is Agent Sanford is going to talk about an initial interview that he conducted with Mr. Garcia but that invokes -- I just want to -- and I know that we've had discussions about what would be redacted.
My client hadn't given me a specific answer. Now he's instructed me to object and to the entirety, because he believes that this will mislead and confuse the jury. And I'll also comment on my client's right to remain silent, because he does invoke at the conclusion of this.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Are you going to elicit comments about Mr. Garcia?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No -- I mean, yes. But not about his invocation. I've redacted that.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's let the jury step out.
(Jury exits.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Everybody be seated. Let's take a proffer of what you intend to get into, Ms. Cappleman.
PROFFERED EXAMINATION
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So you went up to Mr. Garcia's place of employment. Did you conduct an interview with him at his place of employment?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And was that a custodial situation?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it was not.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: was he free to leave at any time?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And did you -- what type of questions did you make of him -- ask of him?
PATRICK SANFORD: Just asked him about if he'd ever been to Tallahassee, if he'd ever gone on any trips with Mr. Rivera.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. And was the call -- interview recorded?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And have you had an opportunity to review the -- it's been redacted but the redacted recording of the interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't think I read the redacted portion.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. well --
PATRICK SANFORD: The redacted version.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- your -- okay.
well, I guess I'll have to do that. But the interview that you listened to, was it a fair and accurate recording of the interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. So if I've taken out portions pursuant to stipulation, the remainder would also -- would continue to be fair and accurate portion of the interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's true. That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, that's the proffer.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Does it have an exhibit number?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir. It is 157.
JUDGE HANKINSON: And is there a transcript of it or not?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, Your Honor. May I approach?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may. And is this --
MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: -- what's redacted or -- have a seat -- or what you're going to --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Correct.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Is this the entirety of it or the redacted version?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That's the redacted. And one correction for the record, Judge. It's State's Exhibit 156 is the disk.
JUDGE HANKINSON: So it doesn't seem like there's any problem with the conclusion of it, Mr. Zangeneh. So what's your objection?
MR. ZANGENEH: Law enforcement approaches Mr. Garcia while he's at employment. Therefore, guarding themselves from having to employ Miranda. They do instruct him that he's free to leave, but he is at work. And, obviously, the perception of attempting to flee work while federal agents enter your employment is kind of -- you're put in a situation where you're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Then they inquire and they ask him questions about the trips in question, his relationship, or does he have a friend named Luis Rivera, his relationship with --
JUDGE HANKINSON: what's your legal objection, Mr. Zangeneh? Get to your legal objection.
MR. ZANGENEH: It's 403(b) -- I'm sorry, 403. I apologize. I saw a federal agent in front me. I started -- I mixed up the federal and state rules of evidence. So it's far more damaging than it is probative. In essence, what it does is law enforcement goes to him and gets statement without conducting any kind of Miranda warnings in that very auspicious manner. And then they are able to get some information. It's not very conclusive. And then he, then he asserts his right to bring -- to counsel.
JUDGE HANKINSON: well, obviously, we're not going to have him --
MR. ZANGENEH: Of course.
JUDGE HANKINSON: -- do that in front of the jury.
MR. ZANGENEH: Of course, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. So do you have some legal objection?
MR. ZANGENEH: Well, in addition, in addition to 403, Judge, I think it confuses the jury. I think that they hear portions of testimony, and then it gets cut off. And the implication there is that he invokes.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Mr. DeCoste, do you want to be heard?
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor. Given the fact that this is -- this was pursuant to police questioning, therefore it's testimonial and it implicates confrontation.
There's also the other issue, and this goes back to our motion to sever. And if the Court were to allow this evidence in, we would renew our motion to sever that statement --
JUDGE HANKINSON: So what does it say about your client?
MR. DECOSTE: No, Your Honor. It's entering in a statement that if Ms. Magbanua were in trial alone before this Court, that statement of Sigfredo Garcia, being questioned by the police, would not be coming in.
JUDGE HANKINSON: That may or may not be true. But, anyway, does it implicate your client because of this statement?
MR. DECOSTE: The ans -- Your Honor, I'd answer no. But I don't believe that's necessary for the Court's analysis.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. I overrule that objection and deny your motion to sever.
So how long is this, Ms. Cappleman?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I knew you were going to ask me that, Judge. I think it's -- oh, I do know. Twenty-five minutes.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. why don't we take --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: But with the redactions --
COURT CLERK: -- about five --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- redactions it will be less.
JUDGE HANKINSON: what's that?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: With the redacted portions, it will be less than that.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Do you want to let Mr. Sanford look over what we're doing in the way of a transcript?
Something else, Mr. DeCoste?
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor. We've never been given this transcript either. Again, we have the same issue where the State is coming forward with something and expecting us within a matter of seconds to be able to review it for accuracy. This is not part of the stuff we were given, and I'm sure that there is going to be a certificate at the end of that transcript that this thing was produced weeks ago, if not months ago.
I believe that the State's operating right now thinking that the Court isn't going to do anything against them, and that's why this keeps happening over and over again. This is the definition of trial by ambush that they keep doing this.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. we'll take a few minutes.
(Brief recess.)
BAILIFF: All rise and come to order. Court is back in session.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's have a jury, please.
(Jury enters.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: Everybody be seated, please.
You may proceed, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Thank you.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So you were telling us about going into Mr. Garcia's place of employment on May 24th, 2016.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what happened once you entered his place of employment?
PATRICK SANFORD: I asked him if he could step outside to speak to us. His supervisor approached us, questioned us, asked who we were. I explained to her just -- we just needed to talk to Mr. Rivera -- I'm sorry, Mr. Garcia. We ended up stepping out in the hallway and started talking to him.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was this a custodial situation, or was Mr. Garcia free to leave?
PATRICK SANFORD: He was free to leave.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. was the interview recorded?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: How was the recording done?
PATRICK SANFORD: I had a body digital recorder.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Okay. I'm going to show you what I marked State's Exhibit 156. Have you had an opportunity to review 156?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I have.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And is it a fair and accurate recording of the conversation you had with Mr. Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it is.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, at this time I'd ask to introduce State's 156.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Any additional objection?
MR. ZANGENEH: No additional objection, sir.
MR. DECOSTE: Nothing additional, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: State's 156 will be admitted.
(State's Exhibit No. 156 received in evidence.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: May I publish?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Permission to make use of a demonstrative transcript?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
(Pause. )
MR. DECOSTE: Your Honor, same objection as to these transcripts.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Objection's overruled.
MR. DECOSTE: For the record, we just received it now.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: For the record, I have evidence to the contrary on that.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Attorneys, we're not going to argue in front of the jury, please. I think y'all know better than that.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: You may publish. Thank you.
(State's Exhibit No. 156 is published. This transcription should not be considered a verbatim record due to audio quality.)
AUDIO RECORDING: You want to go upstairs? You want to go upstairs to the conference room?
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: This should, this should be --
AUDIO RECORDING: No. we're good.
PATRICK SANFORD: Wherever is fine.
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah. We're, we're not trying to do it in front of people, which --
KATHERINE MAGBANUA: we do, we do --
PATRICK SANFORD: we're trying not to do it --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I know but we do, we do finances. You know, so right now...
AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's why we're trying not to do it in front of your boss.
AUDIO RECORDING: That does not look good.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. But that's (inaudible) --
PATRICK SANFORD: I was trying to be real polite about it. We have something to talk about.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I have an office upstairs, but I don't want to do it in the office.
PATRICK SANFORD: You don't want to do that either?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. I don't want to do that either.
AUDIO RECORDING: why don't we go downstairs?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
PATRICK SANFORD: No. I got it. I got it. we just got some information that we want to talk to you about. You know a Luis Rivera?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: There's like 19 people I know.
PATRICK SANFORD: Is that --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Luis Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. Luis Rivera, Luis Rivera, something like that. we got some information about something that happened a couple years ago, and your name popped up jin it.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (CInaudible.)
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay. All right. This happened up North Florida, up in the northern end of Florida up there. Have you ever been to Tallahassee, Florida?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: NO, I have not.
PATRICK SANFORD: No. Never. Um, okay. Um, do you know a Luis Rivera or Luis Rivera, something like that?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Like I said, I know several.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: But at the same time...
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, excuse us. Sorry about that.
Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: Is there one that you're friends with or anything, that you hang out with or anything?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Can you, can you be, like, a little more specific as to what it is that --
PATRICK SANFORD: He's kind of a short guy --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- asking for or why I might know him or if I feel like I can even say I know him, because, from what -- my prior experience -- I'm sure you know my name. You know exactly where to come find me.
PATRICK SANFORD: we found -- yeah --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. So --
PATRICK SANFORD: Right. I know you got a nice job and stuff. That's why we --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah, yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- probably --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: It's my family, you know...
PATRICK SANFORD: And we found out you had kids. I didn't want to do this in front of your kids. You know what I mean?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. I appreciate that.
PATRICK SANFORD: It's bad enough doing it at your work. But I don't know where else to find you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. (Inaudible).
PATRICK SANFORD: It's either home or the work --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- is the only two places I know to come talk to you at.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I understand.
PATRICK SANFORD: See what I'm saying?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: TI don't want to freak your kids out and stuff.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: You know what I'm saying?
(Multiple speakers.)
SIGFREDO GARCIA: That doesn't bother me. That's fine.
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: what bothers me is to why should I know or not know Luis Rivera.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: That's what I need to know.
PATRICK SANFORD: Well, there's some information about some things that happened up north and we're, we're -- and your name was thrown out there as some information just came to light recently that, that you and Mr. Rivera might have been -- had something to do with it up north.
Do you know Dan Markel? Do you know who Dan Markel is?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: It doesn't sound like anybody I know.
PATRICK SANFORD: Doesn't sound like anybody you know. Okay. So you've never been to North Florida either. Um, um, as far as, um, taking trips up north or anything, have you, um...
SIGFREDO GARCIA: None, whatsoever.
PATRICK SANFORD: None whatsoever. You've never been up that way. Okay. Um, who do you live with right now? Do you live with somebody --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I live, I live with my wife.
PATRICK SANFORD: You are married.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yes, yes.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay. What's her name?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: why? That's -- you know, I'm not going to really...
PATRICK SANFORD: Man -- and, you know, your name came up in an investigation, obviously. And that's why we're trying to get your side of the story, to find out if there's any validity to it, if there's any, you know, reason about it. Um, your wife works, your wife works, obviously, somewhere and makes money herself.
So what, what kind of car does she drive? You don't -- I'm trying, I'm trying to get you to talk to me about some stuff, and I can't tell you what our investigation is, is totally about, right? I can't --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: That's one-sided. It's like of a one-sided kind of thing.
PATRICK SANFORD: I know. It is --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: It's not very fair. You know?
PATRICK SANFORD: I mean, your name came -- like I told you -- got you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: You look like you've been doing well for yourself.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. I know --
PATRICK SANFORD: For Sure.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- right now it's kind of -- you know, that I get a badge with the FBI. It's like, wow. You know, this is not something I'm accustomed to. So, obviously, I'm on defense and --
PATRICK SANFORD: I got you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- I don't know if I should say anything more than I want to say.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: But, I mean --
PATRICK SANFORD: TI got you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- if I can help, obviously, I'd be more than happy to.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: You know, I definitely don't want people coming over here to my job.
PATRICK SANFORD: I know.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Because, obviously, right now, that's stirred up. Because when I got this job, I'm not the greatest person to have a job in financing.
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: So right now, what you practically did was just, like, taking --
PATRICK SANFORD: You go back in and tell her you were a witness in a case. You go back in and tell her --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm not going to go in there and tell them that --
PATRICK SANFORD: -- that stuff.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- because then they're going to think are they in litigation, are they going through court, is -- are they getting audited? Is it something that I'm doing against my company now?
PATRICK SANFORD: I --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: So it's, like, pretty much he just, like, shitted -- pardon my French -- all over the little bit of character I --
PATRICK SANFORD: Well, we try not to. That's why they just whispered to you and then --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I appreciate at least the --
PATRICK SANFORD: Attempt to do it. Either way, having your kids, we thought this would be the better --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. Discreetness.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: But a phone call maybe or I don't know --
PATRICK SANFORD: we don't even know your number either. what's your phone number, your cell phone?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Once again.
PATRICK SANFORD: You're not going to give that, either?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm sorry. I want to but it's just I feel like I should be a little bit defensive now, because, you know, you guys showed up to my job.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay. I hear you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'ma little Cinaudible) --
PATRICK SANFORD: I hear you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- upset that I should be --
PATRICK SANFORD: I hear you. TI hear you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- about to happen. You know?
PATRICK SANFORD: TI hear you. You know, it's -- we got a job to do and we got to --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: No, no. I get it. I respect that. I respect that. That's your job, talking to me. So it's like --
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: And recently, you know, it's just, it's just -- it just doesn't feel right, right now.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I don't know what -- I mean, you guys seem very welcoming and nice and everything -- you do. You, like -- she's sweet.
PATRICK SANFORD: We didn't come in here --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. I know. I Know. I know.
PATRICK SANFORD: Kicking doors jin.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (CIndiscernible) --
PATRICK SANFORD: Like I told you --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- Cinaudible) beating me up, dragging me out of my job.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- like I said, it's totally voluntary. You're not under arrest.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: No, no. I know. I know.
PATRICK SANFORD: we're here just talking to you and stuff, and then we're just trying to find out --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (Inaudible) if I can help you.
PATRICK SANFORD: We got some information, and we're trying to find out if that information is even right at all --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (Inaudible) I --
PATRICK SANFORD: -- without ruining your life here.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- I travel to Orlando. I, I go to Disney.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I, you know --
PATRICK SANFORD: About --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- I go to LA. I've gone to Dominican Republic with my family, stuff like that.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay. All right. All right. Mr. Rivera is a little short, short, um, Hispanic. Um, he's got some -- I think he's got some tattoos and stuff. I mean, you know a lot of guys you hang out with. I mean, there's a lot of them like that. This one got locked up in jail. He -- he's in prison right now.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay. Because, you know, my name is very different.
PATRICK SANFORD: It is.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: So...
PATRICK SANFORD: It is very specific. There's not a whole lot of people --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- with your name out there.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's how we were able to find you so easy because --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- somebody gave up your name.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: Um, do you have a nickname? Is your nickname Tuto?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: All right. Is it -- is -- do you know Rivera as Tato?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I know a --
PATRICK SANFORD: You know a Tato?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I know a Tato. Yeah. My uncle's Tato, too, though. So...
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay. But is there a -- do you know a Luis Rivera or Luis Rivera --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I know a Luis Rivera.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- as Tato, also? Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: A Luis Rivera. Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I know several Luis Riveras.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Let's just keep it like that, because I don't understand where you're going with this because --
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay. Well, I want to find out who this guy is and find out exactly what his deal is, if you're, if you're tight with him or not, if you've been with him a lot, if --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: No. I'm not tight with nobody. Yeah.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I haven't been with nobody a lot.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm always with my wife, my kids.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Because --
PATRICK SANFORD: I got you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- I'm, like, daddy of the year.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay. Awesome.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I mean, yeah. I mean, I even babysit.
PATRICK SANFORD: How old are your kids?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Nine and four.
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, awesome. Those are good ages, man.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Boy and girl.
PATRICK SANFORD: Boy and girl. Got one of each. Awesome.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah, yeah. It's awesome.
PATRICK SANFORD: Having those ages, man, is pretty cool. They're out of that diaper stage, but they can do their own stuff now.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. She, she already -- she sleeps without a diaper. So --
PATRICK SANFORD: Really? That's awesome, man.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. We can --
PATRICK SANFORD: Sleep through the night now and don't have to worry about it.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. It's been a while. we always sleep through the night.
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: So what, what can I do to -- obviously, we have to -- there's some issues that you want to speak to me about.
PATRICK SANFORD: All right.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I feel like I shouldn't speak anymore than I have to, because, for some reason, I don't want to be collateral damage or even --
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- something to something that I have nothing to do with. So --
PATRICK SANFORD: Right. If you have nothing to do with it, but you need to clear your name with and get yourself --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Right. But still, for me --
PATRICK SANFORD: -- step out of this.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- for me to clear my name of something I don't know anything about.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. well, here's the deal. we got a bunch of stuff at the office that I can sit down and -- if you wanted to go to the office, we can sit down and I can go over some stuff, some documents and stuff like that and find out if you know anything about all this stuff. So you'd have to be willing to come down to the office --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- Cinaudible).
SIGFREDO GARCIA: No. I wouldn't go without an attorney, obviously. I don't, I don't -- that just sounds wrong.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Okay. Because it's like you have a whole bunch of stuff on people that you're saying came and said my name.
PATRICK SANFORD: You might be able to help us out. You might be able to point us out and say, hey, I know this person. They were doing this, they were doing that, and --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- you can start pointing people out for us.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I wish I could, but I'm not really, I'm not really that guy. I'm not.
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, sorry. We're just talking. Thanks. I'm in your way.
It would really help clear stuff up, man, if you could come down --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Do you want me to call -- have my attorney call you guys?
PATRICK SANFORD: who's your attorney?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I don't know yet, but I'm going to call one.
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, okay. You don't have anybody? Okay. I mean, if you didn't do anything wrong, man, you don't have anything -- well...
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (iIndiscernible.)
PATRICK SANFORD: I hear you, man. I hear you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I was about --
PATRICK SANFORD: TI hate to leave this hanging like this, though.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I know, man. I hate it, too, bro. You're telling me. I got --
PATRICK SANFORD: I know. I know.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: You got to come at my job. It's not hanging right now. when I walk back in there, there's a parade of questions that's going to be ridiculous right now.
PATRICK SANFORD: Tell them whatever you want. That's why we weren't going to talk in front of them and put you out there like that.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. That's why we came up to my desk. That's why my manager started -- my supervisor -- I was eating breakfast --
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: And my supervisor comes up and she doesn't -- because you're -- nobody's allowed inside the financial office.
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, really?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: People's personal information, and then we're PCI compliant, okay --
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- because credit, we can't have just --
PATRICK SANFORD: Got you. So I have walk-in people come in and talk --
PATRICK SANFORD: -- to you? It's all over the phone?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. So when you guys came in, obviously --
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- she looked at me and said, we need to talk to you.
PATRICK SANFORD: I got you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: She said, this is not al lowed.
PATRICK SANFORD: I got you. Got you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: So, um...
PATRICK SANFORD: I got you. well, that's our mistake. we didn't realize what the hell is setup in there.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: No. I see you guys have a job --
PATRICK SANFORD: TI wouldn't call your manager and say, hey, we're the FBI. we need to talk to -- you know, we need to talk to you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: (Inaudible. )
PATRICK SANFORD: We were trying to get around her so she doesn't, you know --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah, yeah. But she's --
PATRICK SANFORD: -- so she doesn't want to screw your job up.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- she's -- there's no, there's no getting around her. She clearly --
PATRICK SANFORD: I could tell. I could tell.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: She does her due diligence. Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. I could tell. That's why I wanted you to step outside, so I could show you my credits and not show it to her.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. But it could have been a disgruntled --
PATRICK SANFORD: I know. I understand her reason.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- as well, that wanted to, like, totally shoot me --
PATRICK SANFORD: I, I totally understand.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- as soon as I walked out.
PATRICK SANFORD: I know. But you could see about what were trying to do. We were trying not to put you out there with your manager.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I got you. I understand that now. I know what I seen was a gun. That's why I said, okay. I'm not going outside with this guy. TI don't know if he's somebody we lent money to, he defaulted on, he wasn't happy with the terms. He might shoot me in the hallway.
PATRICK SANFORD: You can see, see it under my shirt.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. Very plain. Big gun, too.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. I don't know. I really -- I'm not going to go without an attorney. I mean, I understand. Unless you tell me I'm under arrest and you're taking me to jail.
PATRICK SANFORD: No. NO, you're not.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I want to help you guys. I really do.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Anything I can do to help you, I will be more than happy to help you. But I'm not going to, like, just put myself in a position where I might not be helping myself.
PATRICK SANFORD: I got you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: But, like, it might not work out for you -- might not work out, whatsoever.
PATRICK SANFORD: I got you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I mean, I don't, I don't --
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm trying to think if there's anything else we can -- somehow we can resolve this by standing here in this hallway.
um, so you hadn't been to Tallahassee, and you don't really -- have you taken any trips with Mr. Rivera, with Tato?
PATRICK SANFORD: Have you ever been anywhere with him?
PATRICK SANFORD: No? Do you know what his phone number is? I mean, stuff like that. And your old phone number, stuff like that would help us. I mean --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Actually --
PATRICK SANFORD: -- it might clear things up if, you know, we know what phone you were using, what phones other people are using during time periods. It would, it would help us out if you would tell us phone numbers, stuff like that.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Everything nowadays is about like writing the phone number down, like, do you really remember, like, any of your friends’ phone numbers by memory?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not anymore. It's an old, it's an old art. Yeah. It's an old art.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah, it is. I know my --
PATRICK SANFORD: It's kind of lost.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- mom's number. You know?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. Ones people have for a long time.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: But your own phone number, you remember your own phone number.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. I changed my number a couple times, too, as well, because, actually, me and my wife were separated --
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- for a while. So I was with some other girls and couldn't come back home with the same number.
PATRICK SANFORD: when were y'all separated? How long?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: For about two years.
PATRICK SANFORD: Wow. Y'all back together now?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: Awesome.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I got kids, you know?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. That's good, though. That's good for the kids. For sure. You know?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Uh-huh.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. A kid -- there's arguments both ways, but, you know, kids need both parents.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. It's tough on kids.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Both my kids are No. 1.
PATRICK SANFORD: Absolutely. That's cool, man. I'm --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I'm from --
PATRICK SANFORD: -- that's impressive you got back to it.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- a broken home. So...
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah, yeah. That's -- you know what it's like, man.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. Exactly.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's cool. See all them back together. Y'all were apart for two years?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah. Probably more than that, a little more than that.
PATRICK SANFORD: Really?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: Wow. Okay.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: It's all right, though. You know, it is what it is.
PATRICK SANFORD: I hear you, man. TI don't want to keep you from your job here. I just hate --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I don't --
PATRICK SANFORD: -- to leave this --
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- I don't want to go back in my job now, actually.
PATRICK SANFORD: I know.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: It's like right now I'm in a position that I don't even know what I'm going to say when I get back in there --
PATRICK SANFORD: TI hear you.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- because, like, I don't have anything to say. I don't know what to say --
PATRICK SANFORD: I hear you, man.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- but that the FBI came and asked me some questions about some Spanish, Latino guy that's short with tattoos. And now they wanted me to know if I've taken trips with him. That's, like, odd questions and it's -- you know, it's like, no, obviously. But it's still scary to me, because I don't know what you guys want.
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Or what people are trying to tie me into.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yeah. Yeah.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Because the FBI don't just come around asking people questions. I watch enough CSI to know that. Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: And, you know, and like I said, you know, if, if we knew you did -- if we thought you did something, we -- you know, it wouldn't be me in here standing here, coming up to your work, just talking to you. You know what I'm saying?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: We're just trying to get information from you. That's why I'm trying to get you to help us.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: I understand that. You know --
PATRICK SANFORD: You know what I mean?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: -- but, it's just, you know, at, at my expense. You know, I understand you guys are trying to do something, but right now, you guys just, you know...
PATRICK SANFORD: I hear you. I'm just trying to think of ways to clear this thing up, man. I mean, we had somebody call in and gave us your information about something that happened up in North Florida. I'll go ahead and, you know, I'll go ahead and tell you about it. It was -- there was a, there was a homicide up in, up in North Florida, part of Florida up there. Did you ever hear about a Dan Markel?
SIGFREDO GARCIA: A homicide?
PATRICK SANFORD: Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.
SIGFREDO GARCIA: Said he got killed. No.
PATRICK SANFORD: You hadn't heard about that murder or anything? You know anything about -- ever hear it on the news or anything?
(state's Exhibit No. 156 concludes.)
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, would you like me to collect the transcripts?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Please.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So that interview was on May 23rd of "16. when was Mr. --
JUDGE HANKINSON: May 24th, I thought is what it said.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm sorry. May 24th of ‘16. Thank you, Judge.
BY MS. CAPPLEMAN:
MS. CAPPLEMAN: when was Mr. Garcia arrested?
PATRICK SANFORD: On May 25th, the following evening.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. So the day after the interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And were you present for his arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I was.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: And where was his arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was in Hollywood, Florida, at a gas station right off the interstate.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: All right. And was Mr. Garcia in a vehicle, or he was driving a vehicle at the time of his arrest?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: what vehicle was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: The black Lexus.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Same black Lexus that Ms. Magbanua was arrested driving?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No further questions.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Cross.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Special Agent Sanford, good afternoon. Okay. So as a member of the FBI, it would be safe to say that you have other relationships with other agents in the FBI?
PATRICK SANFORD: In the FBI, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: So an agent from Tallahassee could call an agent in Miami and say, hey, listen, I need information about one of your investigations -- about a current investigation I have, and they usually want to help you out?
PATRICK SANFORD: Generally, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, you indicated that you started your investigation -- one of the things that you first investigated was Luis Rivera's affiliation and association with the Latin Kings; is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's not one of the first things I investigated. No. That was --
MR. ZANGENEH: well, let me rephrase it.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is one of the things that you investigated, Luis Rivera's gang affiliation with the Latin Kings?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. I did not investigate that association. I talked to the Miami FBI and Miami ATF about their investigation.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you indicated on direct examination that Mr. Rivera is currently serving a federal RICO sentence, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And do you know what RICO stand for?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not off the top of my head.
MR. ZANGENEH: Racketeer influenced and --
PATRICK SANFORD: Influenced and corrupt --
MR. ZANGENEH: -- corrupt organization sound about right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's right.
MR. ZANGENEH: And the RICO in this case is the Latin King association. That's the reference that's being made in his federal indictment; is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so.
MR. ZANGENEH: would it be fair to say that you had access, because of your relationship as an FBI agent, to the actual FBI case file in his Latin King indictment?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. Because it was actually investigated by the DEA and the ATF.
MR. ZANGENEH: AS an FBI agent, could you call DEA or ATF and ask for their assistance?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I did.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you did that in this case, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And did they assist your investigation, or did they hinder your investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: I guess you could say they assisted it by providing me with information.
MR. ZANGENEH: well, let's talk about that. They showed you a copy of the indictment, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. I don't believe I ever saw a copy of the indictment.
MR. ZANGENEH: well, would you agree with me that the copy of the indictment and the federal RICO statute where Luis Rivera iS a Latin King, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And it was a Latin King indictment, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: There was other Latin Kings indicted with it. Is that what you mean?
MR. ZANGENEH: Correct.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And, actually, there was roughly 19 Latin Kings, including Luis Rivera, in that indictment, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'll take your word for it.
MR. ZANGENEH: It's not my word. I'm asking you if you --
JUDGE HANKINSON: He said he didn't see the indictment, Mr. Zangeneh. Maybe you weren't listening. Did you hear what he said?
MR. ZANGENEH: I must not caught it, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. All right.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: All right. So you have access to the F -- to the federal case file on Luis Rivera's federal indictment, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. I can't just pull up somebody's case file. That's incorrect.
MR. ZANGENEH: Maybe I didn't ask that the right way. Were you able to gain access to it?
MR. ZANGENEH: were you able to gain access to the wire intercepts on the -- on this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. They provided me a copy of the wire intercepts.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And the copy that we're talking about is the federal government listening, just kind of like you were listening to Donna -- I'm sorry, Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua's phone calls, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. But it's DEA and ATF doing that.
MR. ZANGENEH: But it's the same thing. You're still listening to calls, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: But it's specific people who are allowed to listen to them. Just not everybody in the federal government can go listen to somebody else's calls.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you got a copy of these calls.
PATRICK SANFORD: I did.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. That's what I'm trying to get at.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So you have in your possession -- now, do you recall -- would it be fair to say that the calls were from October 2014 till December 2014? Does that time line sound about right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I think it was November to December, I believe, from my recollection.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you not recall a specific call on October 23rd that was part of the wire intercept that was part of the factual proffer in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know which call your talking about.
MR. ZANGENEH: If I -- is there -- if I -- is there anything I could show you that could refresh your recollection?
PATRICK SANFORD: If you tell me what it's regarding, that might.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you -- okay. In Luis Rivera's case, there was a call that was intercepted by Luis Rivera seeking the assistance of other Latin Kings --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I object to hearsay and ask for a different method of refreshing.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: would you like to see a copy of the factual proffer with what I'm specifically referring to?
JUDGE HANKINSON: It's outside the scope of direct examination, also. So I'll sustain all three objections.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: You listened to all the phone calls on the wire intercept, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's incorrect.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you have people in your team listen to all these calls?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not all the calls. All the calls dealing with Luis Rivera we did.
MR. ZANGENEH: You'll agree with me that the wire intercept in this case is in the latter portion of 2014, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: within a few months of this murder for hire, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you're telling this jury that you didn't listen to every single phone call that Luis Rivera, one of the main perpetrators in your -- in the Government's theory, a, a cooperating defendant, you didn't listen to all those calls?
PATRICK SANFORD: we listened to every call that Luis Rivera was involved in, not every call that the entire wire was involved in, because it had, like you said, 20 people involved, and there was hundreds of hours of calls.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you understand that they intercepted Luis’ call -- Luis' phone.
PATRICK SANFORD: And I said we listened to every call that Luis Rivera was involved in.
MR. ZANGENEH: Maybe I didn't ask it the right way.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: So you listened to every one of King Tato's call, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, asked and answered.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: During that time, do you know if he called King Lonjma (phonetic)?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, relevance.
MR. ZANGENEH: well, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: All right. Did you or any one of your team attempt to interview any of the defendants on the federal indictment?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, we did not.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll agree with me, at the time that Luis Rivera was arrested, all two people on the indictment had pled guilty on that federal indictment.
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm not aware if every one of them did or not. I'm not sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you have the ability to conduct these interviews?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we did. But we didn't want to burn our chance for the wire by doing that.
MR. ZANGENEH: You didn't want to burn your chances on the wire?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct. On --
MR. ZANGENEH: The --
PATRICK SANFORD: -- us having an upcoming wire. That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you attempt to interview these people after the wire?
MR. ZANGENEH: During your investigation, did you learn that there were over a hundred Latin Kings under Luis Rivera's North Miami tribe?
PATRICK SANFORD: I didn't need to learn that number. I knew he had a tribe.
MR. ZANGENEH: were any members of the tribe interviewed?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm not sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, Luis Rivera goes to federal prison in 2015, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you began -- and at this point, would it be fair to say that he's already a target in your investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: At which point, in 2015?
MR. ZANGENEH: By the time he pleads guilty and goes to federal prison, is he a target in your investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: No. I'm asking you. Is he?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he's not.
MR. ZANGENEH: He's not. As a federal agent, you prepare specific reports when you do an investigation that are called 302's. Is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And as the case agent in this case, from the federal perspective, you would be in charge of collecting all the 302's. Is that a fair assessment?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm not in charge of collecting them. People are responsible for --
MR. ZANGENEH: Providing them?
PATRICK SANFORD: -- submitting their own. Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: Into the case file.
MR. ZANGENEH: But would it be fair to say that the case file is in your possession?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. It's a digital case file.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: Electronic.
MR. ZANGENEH: How many 302's were prepared in reference to this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know.
MR. ZANGENEH: Roughly? was there more than a hundred?
PATRICK SANFORD: Probably.
MR. ZANGENEH: About 150 sound about right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Maybe. Maybe less.
MR. ZANGENEH: And how many of those 302's -- and a lot of these 302's were in references to interviews that you guys did, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Some of them. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Like the people from the car rental place, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Shoddrick Nobles, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. I did not do a 302 on Shoddrick Nobles, because he was recorded.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. what about Mr. Rivera's girlfriend? Do you remember her name?
PATRICK SANFORD: Mr. Rivera's.
MR. ZANGENEH: Luis Rivera's girlfriend.
PATRICK SANFORD: His baby's -- Jessica. Is --
MR. ZANGENEH: Yeah.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- that who you're referring to? Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Yeah. Did you do a 302 on her?
PATRICK SANFORD: I did a short 302 on her, but I think she was recorded, too.
MR. ZANGENEH: And by recorded, do you mean, like, audio recorded or video recorded?
PATRICK SANFORD: Audio recorded.
MR. ZANGENEH: So just kind of, like, you put, like, a tape player down and you push play?
MR. ZANGENEH: But more sophisticated than that?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. There's, there's different -- the Tallahassee Police Department records theirs. We generally don't unless we have permission from our supervisor.
MR. ZANGENEH: So you're saying that Shoddrick Nobles was videotaped or audio taped?
PATRICK SANFORD: That was videotaped by the police department.
MR. ZANGENEH: And Jessica Rodriguez just audio taped?
PATRICK SANFORD: was just audio taped, I believe.
MR. ZANGENEH: was she put on notice that she was being audio taped?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, she was not.
MR. ZANGENEH: So you interviewed Jessica Rodriguez, who is Luis Rivera's baby mama, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you interview -- and you know that Luis Rivera, at the time of the arrest, was the first crown or the Inca or the head of the North Miami tribe, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: The time of what arrest?
MR. ZANGENEH: At the time of his arrest.
PATRICK SANFORD: By us or by the --
MR. ZANGENEH: Both.
PATRICK SANFORD: Feds?
I didn't even know who he was when he got arrested --
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- back then. Didn't know who he was at all.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you learned during your investigation that he was the first crown of the Latin Kings, correct, of the North Miami tribe?
PATRICK SANFORD: North Miami tribe, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay, did you attempt to interview the second crown?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. Did not.
MR. ZANGENEH: The enforcer?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I did not.
MR. ZANGENEH: The secretary?
MR. ZANGENEH: And is that because the Latin Kings are known to have a code of silence?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. It's more because we had no information that he was -- they were involved whatsoever.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, there's a portion of Luis Rivera's interview that you did. You did multiple interviews with Mr. Rivera, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so. I believe it was two.
MR. ZANGENEH: So there's one on September 30th of 2014; is that correct, sir?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And dur -- I'm sorry, 2016. I said 2014.
PATRICK SANFORD: Oh, sorry.
MR. ZANGENEH: I apologize.
PATRICK SANFORD: It was 2016.
MR. ZANGENEH: And during that time you're there, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Detective Isom's there, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Obviously, Luis Rivera's there.
PATRICK SANFORD: yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: One of his lawyer's is there?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: was it the -- it's a father-son team?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe it was the father.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. The father's the guy with the gray hair as opposed to the shaved head?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: was Ms. Cappleman there?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not in the room.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Well, when you say not in the room, what does that mean?
PATRICK SANFORD: She was in the building, in another room.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And would it be fair to say that she was part of this process?
PATRICK SANFORD: Part of the process of the proffer?
MR. ZANGENEH: Right.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, that's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, at this point, we know that Mr. Rivera has taken a -- agreed to a plea deal of 19 years to run at the same time as his federal sentence, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. I believe that's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Were you part of the negotiations between the Government and Mr. Rivera's defense team with, with regards to his -- to what the outcome of his sentence would be if he cooperated?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. Not at all.
MR. ZANGENEH: were you present when any of this occurred?
MR. ZANGENEH: And Ms. Cappleman and her team are kind of remotely located while you're talking to Mr. Rivera and his attorney, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And since you're not recording it, would it be safe to say there's back-and-forth going on between law enforcement and the attorneys in the case?
PATRICK SANFORD: I think only at one point maybe.
MR. ZANGENEH: So the answer's yes --
PATRICK SANFORD: But, no, there wasn't --
MR. ZANGENEH: -- there was back-and-forth?
PATRICK SANFORD: Just one time.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So at one time you went there, and they came back?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: So back and forth?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. We took one break, I believe.
MR. ZANGENEH: And would be it fair to say that one of the things you guys were doing during that time is assessing his credibility?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. That's fair.
MR. ZANGENEH: And at this time would it be safe to say that Mr. Rivera had had access to his attorney to parts of the discovery?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know what he had access to.
MR. ZANGENEH: AS a special agent with the FBI, is it normal in law enforcement investigations that, once someone's arrested, the prosecution gives them evidence?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. That's true.
MR. ZANGENEH: Any reason for you to believe that this is not one of these normal cases?
PATRICK SANFORD: That he didn't get discovery? No. There's no reason to believe that.
MR. ZANGENEH: And will you also agree with me that your conversations with him on September 30th was kind of like your first impression of speaking with him?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. We were just gauging his truthfulness.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's because -- just like you played a tape of Sigfredo Garcia that we just listened to from May 24th, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: You guys went to see Luis Rivera while he's in a federal prison in Coleman, right? It was Coleman?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was Coleman.
MR. ZANGENEH: About a week before that, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's incorrect.
MR. ZANGENEH: Mid May?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. That's incorrect.
MR. ZANGENEH: when, when did you first go see him?
PATRICK SANFORD: we first --
MR. ZANGENEH: Take a look at your records.
PATRICK SANFORD: Our first -- I don't have the dates with me, I don't believe. But it was definitely after we talked to Mr. Garcia.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: It was definitely after. We didn't talk to anybody until that day we talked to Mr. Garcia. It was the first time --
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. I'm sorry. So after May 24th but before June 1st; would that sound about right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. oh, definitely.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Because he was arrested in Coleman, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Luis Rivera was.
PATRICK SANFORD: He was, he was, I guess, served with an arrest warrant, not by us. But he was jin --
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. Because when you're in custody, you don't really get arrested. They just --
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: -- let you know, hey, you've got another problem, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Exactly.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's what happened here to Mr. Rivera, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And before that happened, you went to federal prison and you had a conversation with him, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you asked him about his involvement in this case, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he told you he wasn't involved, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And would it be fair to say that that interaction with him was also not memorialized on video or audio, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's incorrect.
MR. ZANGENEH: It was memorialized?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MR. ZANGENEH: On audio, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm sorry. Maybe I should have said it better. on video, right? It was --
PATRICK SANFORD: Not on video. No.
MR. ZANGENEH: Not on video. And you'll agree with me that the way someone talks, while they're talking, is something that people take into consideration when you're determining someone's truthfulness, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sometimes. Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Yeah. So September 30th, kind of your first real conversation with Luis Rivera, he's there with his lawyer, you're evaluating how he reacts to your questioning because -- would it be fair to say that you were cross-examining him or interrogating him during this talk?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's incorrect.
MR. ZANGENEH: You were just listening to his side of the story?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And, obviously, we can't show the members of the jury that interview, because it wasn't memorialized on video, correct?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, asked and answered.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Wait a minute. So I think he needs to answer that question. was it recorded?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, sir.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. BY MR. ZANGENEH::
MR. ZANGENEH: And about how long was this interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: Just guestimating, maybe an hour, hour and a half.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have a report that you could refer to that says interview starts X time, interview ends X time?
PATRICK SANFORD: I know Investigator Isom completed a report, had details about the interview on it, but I don't know if it has the times on there.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, the October 4th statement by Luis Rivera was recorded, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And are there 31 days in September? No. Okay. So October 1st, October 2nd, October 3rd, and then October 4th, so four days later -- four or five days later, a few days later you guys set up another interview where you flick on the camera and voila, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll agree with me that the second interview, he -- there is some -- it's memorialized, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And it's memorialized not just on audio but also on video, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll also agree with me that on this October 4th day it's Luis Rivera, once again, yourself, Special Agent -- Agent Isom, the court reporter, and the same Collins, the older gentleman, correct, the older of the two Collins?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't believe there's a court reporter present but the rest of it's --
MR. ZANGENEH: There wasn't a stenographer sitting at the end of the table taking down notes?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. I believe she was with the defense attorney.
MR. ZANGENEH: Oh, okay. So she -- there was just another lady in the room.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And so you recorded one, but you didn't record the other, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And why was that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Because, to start with, the State Attorney's Office, that was their request. They didn't want it recorded to start with. And then after we did it, they came back and wanted it recorded. But we generally don't record our proffers in the federal system at all.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. I know. But this isn't a federal case, right? This is --
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Sir, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: This is a state case. we're in state court, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you understand that there's a difference between a federal prosecution and the state prosecution, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: There's some differences, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll agree with me that there was two interviews, and one was recorded and one wasn't, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. Yes.
(off-the-record discussion. )
MR. ZANGENEH: May I...
(off-the-record discussion.)
MR. ZANGENEH: May I approach, Judge?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Special Agent, I'm just showing you a CD that I showed you earlier today; is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you know what this is, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. This is a -- this is the actual October 4th interview between yourself, Agent Isom, Luis Rivera, and his legal team; is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you've reviewed this?
PATRICK SANFORD: Skipped through it quickly.
MR. ZANGENEH: Does it appear to be in the same or substantially the same condition as it was when you first took it?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Judge, at this time the defense moves what's been marked as Defense Exhibit 6 into evidence.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Object to hearsay.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
MR. ZANGENEH: Judge, I -- I'll reenter this at the -- at another portion through another witness, Judge.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, that video shows Luis Rivera's body language, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. It shows the way he responds to questioning, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: It shows whether or not his attorney jumps in and starts asking questions to assist his client, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I would disagree with him doing it to assist his client. I think it was to assist the investigation.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. But you will agree that if we watch the video, this jury could draw that there -- that conclusion for themselves, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: They could draw that for themselves. Yes. That is correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Because they'd be able to see the actual video itself, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you know how many times Luis Rivera's attorney objected or interrupted your line of questioning to redirect the questioning in that interview?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I don't.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection to hearsay.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
MR. ZANGENEH: Judge, I'm not, I'm not offering it for the truth of the matter asserted.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I'll withdraw my ruling.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: You can answer that question, sir.
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I don't.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, one of the things the prosecution asked you about was if he made any mistakes, right? If Luis Rivera had made any factual allegations that were incorrect. Do you recall that?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, I do.
MR. ZANGENEH: And one of the -- one of the -- I think one of the first ones the prosecution proffered to you was there was a speeding ticket that Luis Rivera received going north, from Miami to Tallahassee, where I think he got the ticket in Gainesville around mile marker 375, or something like that, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Sound about right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sounds about right.
MR. ZANGENEH: And in his testimony, he thought that that occurred, not in the June trip, which the records show, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: But he believed it was in the July trip, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he also believed, instead of it being all the way up, that it was on the way down, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't remember it being on the way down. I think it was on the way up.
MR. ZANGENEH: Oh, okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. You know what would clear that up for us? would you agree that a copy of the video --
JUDGE HANKINSON: Mr. Zangeneh, that is very inappropriate.
Jury, let me explain. Generally what people say outside of the courtroom is hearsay. That's why I sustained the objection to the video. Now, if there are things in there that are inconsistent with what Mr. Rivera said in court, the defense is free to bring that out. But that's my ruling, and you should not be worrying that there is something nefarious going on. He's free to bring out what's inconsistent. But the full statement is hearsay and inadmissible.
You can proceed, Mr. Zangeneh.
MR. ZANGENEH: Thank you, Judge.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: So he got the date of the trip wrong, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he also indicated that my client was the one driving the vehicle the whole trip up, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: which trip?
MR. ZANGENEH: The June trip.
PATRICK SANFORD: The June trip. I don't recall off the top of my head. I'd have to look at the video again.
MR. ZANGENEH: You'll agree with me that Mr. Rivera indicated that there was a substantial amount of drug use that occurred on that June 4th trip, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Going up north.
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: You would also agree with me that his time line was way off, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm not sure what you're referring to there. Give --
MR. ZANGENEH: Sure. No problem.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- me some specifics.
MR. ZANGENEH: Mr. Rivera said that he believed he arrived in Tallahassee around 5:00 a.m.; is that correct? Early in the morning?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so.
MR. ZANGENEH: Like, super early. Like, between 5:00 and 7:00.
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't remember if that's what he, I don't remember if that's what he said or not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is there something I could show you to refresh your recollection?
PATRICK SANFORD: The video or if you showed me Mr. Isom's -- Investigator Isom's report.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'll tell you what. 1I'11 get back to that.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay. You're referring to the first trip, right?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, sir. The --
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: -- June 4th trip.
PATRICK SANFORD: It would be in Investigator Isom's report then.
MR. ZANGENEH: So you question him about that first trip, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And other than that, that error, what other errors did he have in his testimony that didn't comport with the facts?
PATRICK SANFORD: On the June trip or just overall?
MR. ZANGENEH: well, let's -- well, just right now I'm going to -- we're going to talk just about the June trip.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: what other factual inaccuracies do you recall that he made during that proffer?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall off the top of my head.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is there something that would refresh your recollection? would it be to watch the video again?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: Was there any evidence, any physical evidence that Luis Rivera was the one that took that trip from Miami to Tallahassee?
PATRICK SANFORD: The first trip?
MR. ZANGENEH: On June 4th.
PATRICK SANFORD: Physical evidence that he took it?
MR. ZANGENEH: Let me ask you this: Do you have phone records from Luis Rivera's cell phone, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And you had his number, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he confirmed -- by he, I mean Luis Rivera, that the number you had was in fact the number that he was using, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And you were able to confirm this, because, I assume, when he got arrested, Mr. Rivera was arrested with two phones, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know what he was arrested with.
MR. ZANGENEH: would it be fair to say that when you started your investigation, you contacted the, the US Attorney's Office and asked them to be able to observe or borrow the evidence at hand, because his case was over at that point, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: The phone that he had during the time of the trips up, he --
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- he had already gotten rid of well before he was arrested.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you look to see what the new phones were, regardless?
PATRICK SANFORD: The new ones he was arrested with?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, sir.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, we did.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Let's talk about phones just real quick. You were part of obtaining Charlie Adelson's iCloud, correct? were you involved in that portion of this investigation?
PATRICK SANFORD: I was part of the investigation, but I did not do this -- the search warrant to get his icloud. No.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you're aware that you received -- or the Government received Charlie Adelson's iCloud, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. I am aware of it. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you're also aware that the Government received -- and that's because Charlie Adelson had some sort of device that comports with an i -- with an iCloud, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Like an iPhone or an iPad or i0S, or whatever it is, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's generally how it works. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And we also got an iCloud for Ms. Magbanua, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And that's because she had an iPhone or an i -- you know, whatever comports with having an iCloud, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, you're aware, at the time of this incident -- and you -- I assume this comes through the cell records that Mr. Rivera also had an iPhone, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you pull his icloud information?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe they did, yes. Not me personally but, yes, TPD did.
MR. ZANGENEH: And by they, who do you mean?
PATRICK SANFORD: The Tech Unit with Tallahassee Police Department.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did they provide you with a copy of the iCloud information?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall. I know that I was told that there was, there was nothing there. But I might have seen it. I don't recall. It was a long time ago.
MR. ZANGENEH: So just so I have this clear, someone from a tech unit called you and said there's really nothing in his iCcloud with regards to this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's not what I said. But...
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. well, you said there's nothing there.
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. what does that mean, there's nothing there?
PATRICK SANFORD: That means there was nothing, nothing attainable on it. He either didn't have it turned on where it was sharing with the Cloud or not saving or it got deleted.
MR. ZANGENEH: So all the data was gone?
PATRICK SANFORD: If there was data ever even there. Or if there was very little there that didn't amount to anything. I'm not sure which one.
MR. ZANGENEH: You're aware that we -- that you -- the law enforcement, you guys pulled phone records for Luis Rivera, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: You're also aware that there were -- during the time period from -- I believe it was early 2014 till late 2014, during the subject portion of the conspiracy, almost 10,000 text messages that were on Luis Rivera's handset?
PATRICK SANFORD: which handset?
MR. ZANGENEH: His cell phone.
PATRICK SANFORD: which cell phone, the one that he had at the time of 2014?
MR. ZANGENEH: The, the one -- well, the one that was part of the -- or relevant to the conspiracy.
PATRICK SANFORD: No. Because that phone was dumped and gotten rid of.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you guys pulled the phone records, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right. But there's no text messages involved in the phone records.
MR. ZANGENEH: So you can't call AT&T and ask for how many text messages Luis Rivera made if he was an AT&T subscriber, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: They can, they can give us an idea of the number of them but not the content.
MR. ZANGENEH: well, that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the number.
PATRICK SANFORD: The number of them. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: So there's about 8,000 of them?
PATRICK SANFORD: I have no idea.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay.
(off-the-record discussion.)
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Special Agent Sanford, you were part of a detail assigned to drive up and down Florida with Luis Rivera looking for the dump site of the gun, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And you indicated there was a lot of, a lot of bridges.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. There are.
MR. ZANGENEH: Between Tallahassee and Miami.
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that Luis Rivera took you guys out for two days, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Two different days, correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Back to back days?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't think they were back to back. I don't remember.
MR. ZANGENEH: Close in proximity?
PATRICK SANFORD: Fairly close.
MR. ZANGENEH: Between September 30th and October 4th?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. I don't believe that's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: So there's a second one after?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe --
MR. ZANGENEH: So there's one in between the statements, and then one after the final statement?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And Mr. Rivera drove in the backseat of a -- like a pick -- like a government-issued vehicle?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was a van, correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. Okay. So not, like, a police car, right?
MR. ZANGENEH: So it's a van, and he's sitting next to his attorney, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And I know this, because there is button cam evidence of Detective Isom, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Taking this, taking this journey, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And, I mean, how -- is -- was there a way that you described this journey in the past? Like, would you consider it, like, maybe a wild goose chase?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was trying to find evidence. I wouldn't call it a wild goose chase. No.
MR. ZANGENEH: You finally got to a bridge that Luis Rivera said, that's the bridge, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not the first trip. That would have been the second time that he believes he found the second one. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: well, the first -- okay. So the first time he believes it's a bridge, did you bring, like, a team to do their -- to do a search, a full search?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not the first trip. He did not ID a bridge on the first trip.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And so how many hours do you think was, was in that ride, a few hours?
PATRICK SANFORD: Several hours.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Like one, two, seven?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. We were past -- we went past Tampa. So it's five hours down and another five, six hours back.
MR. ZANGENEH: And during this time did you give him prison-issued food, or did you guys stop by, like, a McDonald's or some sort of fast food for --
PATRICK SANFORD: we did stop somewhere along the way and had to get him something to eat. I think his, I think his attorney actually got it for him, though, if I'm not mistaken. I don't recall exactly.
MR. ZANGENEH: So kind of like a treat. Like, he didn't have to eat standard-issued prison food, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I wouldn't call it a treat but okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: Have you eaten prison food before?
MR. ZANGENEH: All right. So on the second day -- or the second trip, he stops by a bridge and says, this is what I think -- this is where I think the dump is, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And you then call in a whole team that comes and analyzes the area, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And how many, how many other law enforcement officers came to the scene?
PATRICK SANFORD: The first time, maybe ten.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Ten officers from Tallahassee or were -- did you just call local detail?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's Tampa. It's the Tampa division. It was in their division or --
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- territory.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. And so they lend you about a half a dozen police officers, and they started doing their search, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: They were federal agents. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And then -- right. Federal agents. Law enforcement. I'm sorry. And then there was a body of water. Obviously, it's a bridge in close proximity, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And so you guys called out dive teams, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And these dive teams came from Quantico and Miami, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so. Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: May I approach, Judge?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm showing you what's been marked as Government's -- I'm sorry, Defense Exhibit 5. Do you recognize this?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I do not.
MR. ZANGENEH: You don't recognize this picture?
MR. ZANGENEH: well, can you describe -- was there a firearm that was recovered?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, there was not.
MR. ZANGENEH: There was no firearm recovered in the search?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, there was not.
MR. ZANGENEH: If there was a firearm recovered, would you have been put on notice?
PATRICK SANFORD: At my search, yes. Absolutely.
MR. ZANGENEH: So you had one search that resulted nothing, correct, negative results?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And then you had another search that also resulted in negative results, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And to your knowledge, were there any other searches at any other bridges that resulted in finding a firearm?
PATRICK SANFORD: Somebody told me that the State Attorney's Office investigator conducted a search of another bridge. I was not present for it.
MR. ZANGENEH: So he was oh-for-two, and then he get -- so were you put on notice if this is one of the bridges that you crossed during your trip with Mr. Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: Put on notice of which bridge?
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. I mean, you drove up and down the coast of Florida with him, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: All right. And pretty much hit as many bridges as you could think of, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he came up with two and there were -- he went no gun, no gun, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. That's incorrect. The same location was, was the same bridge. we did a search on the land in the same area. When we didn't find anything on land, we came back to the same location and searched the water.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: It was just one bridge that he alerted me to.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And so would it be fair to say that the one bridge yielded negative results?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And then were you put on notice on how this other bridge was, was found? Did -- was this --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, hearsay.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Are you familiar with -- did you question Mr. Rivera about where he thought the gun was, was disposed?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. On the trip.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay.
PATRICK SANFORD: And during the interview, too.
MR. ZANGENEH: And this -- would it be common for a Latin King to dump a firearm in the middle of nowhere?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: During your investigation, did you do any due diligence to make a determination of how Latin Kings dealt with firearms?
JUDGE HANKINSON: I sustained the objection. Move on, please, Mr. Zangeneh.
BY MR. ZANGENEH
MR. ZANGENEH: All right. So we talked about -- one of the things that you talked about is that part of your investigation, you were able to find out that my client purchased two cars anda motorcycle, I think, between a month and six months after the incident, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And we know that because there's documentation with regards to these purchases?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And one was for a '94 Monte Carlo, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And on that piece of paper, the person that my client purchased the vehicle from, it has their information; there's a former title?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Did you contact or did you have anyone that worked for the FBI follow up with the person that sold the '94 Monte Carlo to Sigfredo Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, we did not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Because you understand that one of the issues in this case is the price of the vehicle, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: The price of the Monte Carlo?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes.
PATRICK SANFORD: No. I wasn't aware that was an issue.
MR. ZANGENEH: well, let me ask you a question. In the October 4th interview of Luis Rivera, does he give a guestimate of how much the car -- the purchase price was for the vehicle?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe he did. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And would you agree with me that that's substantially less than the Blue Book val -- I'm sorry. was substantially more than the Blue Book value?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, calls for hearsay.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you determine what the Blue Book value of the vehicle was?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, hearsay.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm not offering it --
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm sorry --
JUDGE HANKINSON: The question is: Did this agent determine the Blue Book value of the Monte Carlo?
MR. ZANGENEH: Correct.
JUDGE HANKINSON: You can answer.
PATRICK SANFORD: I personally did not look at it.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: To your knowledge, did anybody on your team?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe somebody else on my team did.
MR. ZANGENEH: And would you agree that if the Blue Book value and the price listed on the title paperwork, if this was a huge discrepancy, or any discrepancy at all, the best way to determine the actual value paid would to be contact the former pers -- the person that, that Mr. Garcia bought the vehicle from, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That would be a possibility.
MR. ZANGENEH: And was that done in this case?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not that I'm aware of.
MR. ZANGENEH: All the same -- well, let's see here. Now, there was a purchase price put for the motorcycle on the paperwork, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall --
MR. ZANGENEH: On the title paperwork?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall if there was or not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you recall if this purchase price had any discrepancy with Mr. Rivera's statement?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall.
MR. ZANGENEH: You also agree that if you wanted to, because they have the name of the former person that sold the motorcycle to my client, that a call could have been made to verify what the purchase price was?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's possible.
MR. ZANGENEH: And lying to a federal agent with regards to -- any time you lie to a federal agent, that's a crime, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: It can be.
MR. ZANGENEH: It's a federal statute saying that if you lie to a federal agent, federal law enforcement, that's a federal offense, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: So these people, when questioned by federal agents, didn't give a right answer, they'd be committing a federal crime, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And on -- and, finally, the old Nissan that he purchased six or seven months after the, the murder of Dan Markel, you'll agree with me that this came from a website. The title shows that it came from Nice Cars for Less, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall that.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you recall if you contacted Nice Cars for Less to see what my client put down or what the total price was?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I did not.
MR. ZANGENEH: All right. Now, let's get to the bump. All right? The, the staged performance by Special Agent Jimenez on, what -- on Donna Adelson, pardon me. Okay. And you'll agree with me that two phone calls -- or I'm sorry, two people had their numbers intercepted, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. That would be Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, Ms. Magbanua's on trial here today, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is Charlie Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he's not.
MR. ZANGENEH: My client, though, is, right, Sigfredo Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he is.
MR. ZANGENEH: was there a Title ill -- was there a wire intercept on Mr. Garcia's phone?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, there was not.
MR. ZANGENEH: You'll agree with me that Mr. Rivera indicated -- or you -- let me rephrase it.
You learned that Mr. Rivera had said that Sigfredo's like his brother, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: You also remember that when you approached my client the day before you arrested him, you asked him about his relationship with Luis Rivera, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's because you believed, and you guys had a good faith basis to believe that my client and Luis Rivera had a longstanding friendship, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Now, there's a note given to Donna Adelson, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: This note is the basis of gathering information by stirring up concerns, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And this piece of paper, based on testimony of Agent Jimenez, and I believe you, shows a picture of Mr. Markel, correct, an article about his untimely death, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And it purportedly has Ms. Magbanua's name on it, right, Katie?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it does not.
MR. ZANGENEH: It doesn't say Katie's name on it?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it does not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Does it say my client's name on it?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, it does not.
MR. ZANGENEH: So it doesn't say either Katie or Tuto on the, on the paper, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. No, it does not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did you guys take a photocopy of this paper -- of this very important document so we could show the members of this jury?
PATRICK SANFORD: we have a copy of the article. I did not take a photocopy of the actual one where I wrote -- we wrote the amount and the phone number on it. Failed to do that.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So we don't have that. But what we do have is we have video, right? we have multiple videos, security surveillance, a huge operation that you guys did with regards to sending this message, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: But we don't have the message, right? we don't have the piece of paper -- or at least a copy of it that you gave to Donna Adelson?
PATRICK SANFORD: we have a cop --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, asked and answered.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: So we have video surveillance of Agent Jimenez going up to Donna Adelson, right? And in that state -- and in that interaction, he specifically names Katie, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he specifically names Tuto, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And Tato as well, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And at that time, Tato, which is King Tato, Luis Rivera, he's in prison, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So putting a wire intercept on his phone would, would just be an exercise and complete nothingness, because that phone is not working, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And the majority of federal inmates, when they make legal calls, it's through the prison system, and all those calls are recorded, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Unless you set up a legal call with your attorney.
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Or some sort of thing that you do through the prison, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you're also aware that inmates oftentimes have phones that they're not supposed to have, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's not a -- pardon me. And that's not an uncommon thing. You get caught with a cell phone jin prison, you get something called a shot. Are you familiar with this, like a violation of sorts?
PATRICK SANFORD: I know what a shot is, and it depends on the violation --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I'm going to object to relevance, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: well, my question here is this: It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility if somebody wanted to reach out and have a phone conversation with Luis Rivera while he's in custody that wouldn't be recorded.
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry. what's your question? Is that out of the possibility?
MR. ZANGENEH: Is it possible, is it possible?
PATRICK SANFORD: Is it possible? Yes, it's possible.
MR. ZANGENEH: And out of the two people that are named by Agent Jimenez, Katie and Tuto, my client, based on your investigation, who would be more likely to make that call to Luis Rivera?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: who was closer to Luis Rivera, Sigfredo Garcia or Katherine Magbanua?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sigfredo Garcia.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. Now, do you have the summary on it?
(off-the-record discussion.)
MR. ZANGENEH: Sorry about that.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Sorry, Special Agent Sanford. Just getting my notes.
Okay. So the bump happens April 16th -- I'm sorry, April 19th, 2016, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And the first call from Charlie to Katie happens on April 19th, 2016, right? You can refer back to your, to your summary. I just kind of want to get an understanding of what's going on here.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And at that time, he kind of gives a very vague overview as to what's going on, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Not a lot of detail?
MR. ZANGENEH: Correct? And it appears that they are setting up -- and by "they" I mean Mr. Charlie Adelson is asking to meet with Ms. Magbanua to have a face-to-face conversation with her, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: You indicated during direct examination that certain messages like whatsApp or -- pardon me, whatsApp video calls or encrypted messaging is something that you would not be able to capture on a wire intercept; is that correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: But you'll agree with me that there is a lot of stuff that is actually provided during this wire intercept, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So if somebody wanted to use a messaging app or a vehicle to shield them from being observed, they would do it consistently, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not necessarily.
MR. ZANGENEH: well, I mean, they would have the ability to do it, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Have the ability?
MR. ZANGENEH: It's not like --
PATRICK SANFORD: sorry.
MR. ZANGENEH: Because you made a reference that you believed that there were certain times, certain things were said on whatsApp that you guys can't see, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: But then there's a ton of other stuff that you do see, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: So that means that the person once using another, another known encrypted communication device reverted back to regular phone, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: So let's, let's go to K, if you could.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: which is the first phone call that's memorialized on April 21st. And this call, I believe, is from Ms. Magbanua to my client, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: It's early in the morning, around 8:15 in the morning?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Now, will you agree that it appears that they have already discussed -- or there's been a discussion about a specific number, correct?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I'1l1 sustain the objection.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: well, let me go to -- these are already back -- these are already in evidence, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sorry?
MR. ZANGENEH: Judge, these are all already in evidence, correct?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Correct.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have the transcripts in front of you, Special Agent?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, I do not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Could I show you the -- my transcript to refresh your recollection?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: Your Honor, may I approach?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Call K, Mr. Zangeneh?
MR. ZANGENEH: Pardon?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: It's call K?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes. It's call K825.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: What page?
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm going to page 4, lines 19 to 23.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Go ahead and take a look at those. when your recollection is adequately refreshed, let me know.
(Brief pause.)
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: May I approach, again, Judge?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You may.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: So now that I've showed you the transcript of what's already been admitted in evidence as call K, what I showed you was communication between Ms. Magbanua, who says, you're going to tell me I'm going to make a call, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So that suggests that they previously had a discussion with regards to this incident, correct, to this --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, calls for speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Right? I mean, it makes it sound like they've already talked about this, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And what does Sigfredo Garcia immediately say after she asks him to make the call?
PATRICK SANFORD: He says he's not going to.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. And he just doesn't say that. He uses emphatic profanity to say, I'm not going to make that effing call, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And they continue to have that -- and you would agree with me that it's a confrontational phone call, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll agree with me it's eight o'clock in the morning, around 8:15?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, it was.
MR. ZANGENEH: And then at the end, Mr. Garcia says, I'll make the call. Emphatically, again, but this time saying -- instead of I'm not going to make the call, which appears to have been what he had said before, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: He says, I'm going to make that call, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have any phone records showing that Mr. Garcia made any calls?
PATRICK SANFORD: Made any calls to who?
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. well, that's the question. To anybody. To any known -- let me say this. Did he make the call to the number given by the special agent?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he did.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Did he do it on, on April 21st?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. It wasn't the 21st.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. what about April 20th?
PATRICK SANFORD: Are you asking me if he called on April 20th.
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, sir, I am.
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't believe so.
MR. ZANGENEH: So Charlie calls Katie, right, who's, at that point, you'll agree with me, in a relationship with my client?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Are they living together.
PATRICK SANFORD: Mr. Garcia?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So she knows about it, goes home to her husband. Do you have any calls between Sigfredo Garcia and the bump number on the ni -- the 19th of April, yes or no?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not on the 19th.
MR. ZANGENEH: The 20th of April?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. I don't recall.
MR. ZANGENEH: The 21st of April.
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't believe so.
MR. ZANGENEH: And if there was a call between Sigfredo Garcia and this bump number, you'd have a record of it, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Because there is a record of it almost a week later, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm trying to look for the date.
MR. ZANGENEH: I got the date right here for you. It is --
PATRICK SANFORD: That would be helpful.
MR. ZANGENEH: -- April 28th.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. That sounds correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Eight days later, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Do you have any phone records of any calls between Sigfredo Garcia and any known Latin Kings between the 19th of April and the 28th of April?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, relevance.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: would you agree with me that if somebody, as, as what it appears in the bump, threatened my client, the client of his wife, and purported to have a relationship with the Latin Kings, that my client may know other people to call?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, calls for speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: You'll agree with me that on July 19th, Luis Rivera called another Latin King to try to find Sigfredo Garcia, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: july 19th?
MR. ZANGENEH: The day after the homicide, during the purported pickup, the money pickup, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: You said Luis Rivera called who?
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm asking you if you recall what Latin King Luis Rivera called to try to find Sigfredo Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not off the top of my head.
MR. ZANGENEH: would there be something if I could show you to refresh your recollection?
(off-the-record discussion.)
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Does the name Anthony Ortiz sound familiar?
PATRICK SANFORD: It just came to my head. It was. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. King Anthony, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: King Anthony. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Another member of the Latin Kings?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: So your evidence shows that Luis Rivera, when he was looking for Sigfredo, called another Latin king, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And this other Latin King, your evidence suggests, called my client to find him, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe so.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So did you attempt to see if any calls were made between Sigfredo Garcia and this other Latin King, King Anthony, between April 19th -- I'm sorry, on April 19th, 2016?
PATRICK SANFORD: On April 19th. I didn't do the phone records. That would be Sergeant Corbitt who did all the phone analysis.
MR. ZANGENEH: AS a -- I guess, the federal case agent in this case, would you be put on notice if certain things took place?
PATRICK SANFORD: For the most part, not everything. But...
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Did you guys look or did you ask to look, let's see if there's a connection between King Anthony and Sigfredo Garcia?
PATRICK SANFORD: I'm sure that we looked at some point. I just don't recall off the top of my head.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. And so can you tell this mem -- the members of this jury if there were any phone calls made by Sigfredo Garcia to King Anthony on April 19th?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't recall, but I don't believe so.
MR. ZANGENEH: what about April 20th?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not that I know of.
MR. ZANGENEH: April 21st?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not that I know of.
MR. ZANGENEH: April 22nd?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not that I know of.
MR. ZANGENEH: Anytime in April? well -- and this is the same King Anthony that Luis Rivera, purportedly my client's best friend, called to help find Sigfredo Garcia, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Supposedly, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: well, you have phone records of it.
PATRICK SANFORD: That he called him. I don't know why he called him. I don't have the conversation.
MR. ZANGENEH: well, who -- right. But who told you that?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was Mr. Rivera.
MR. ZANGENEH: Luis Rivera, right? And you believed his testimony, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Overruled.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Now I'm going to direct your attention to text messages a week later between Katherine Magbanua and Sigfredo Garcia. Now, the phone calls that you guys had the jury listen to were -- with regards to my client, there's one on April 21st, 2016, there's another one on April 21st, 2016, and then the next is April 26, 2016. Does that mean that my client and Ms. Magbanua didn't have any telephone communication between that time?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. That's not what that means.
MR. ZANGENEH: That simply means that these are the only phone calls that you have elicited to show this jury, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Let's talk about No. R, text message -- I think it's call number or reference No. 1195. On April 26, around 9:52 in the morning, year 2016, Ms. Magbanua sent a text message to my client; do you recall that?
PATRICK SANFORD: I see it here, yes. I recall.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And in that, in that text message, she asks -- or says -- makes a statement, need to talk to you about something else, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: That suggests that they were talking about something not related to what she's going to ask about now, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's what it appears to be.
MR. ZANGENEH: That's pretty much the suggestion.
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Six, SixX minutes and ten seconds later, my client responds, right? At 9:58:28?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. That's --
MR. ZANGENEH: Call number -- another text message 1205 for the record, right --
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: -- Special Agent?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And he, and he says he was, right? That's the first thing he says, he was?
PATRICK SANFORD: yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And then he says, whatever. And then he puts a period, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: whatever is going on with you and your homey is your business. You guys work that shit out. Pardon my language. That's not what he said. I'm saying it. But that's what he writes, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct. That's the text message.
MR. ZANGENEH: And then he responds by saying, don't text me.
(Brief pause.)
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, who do you believe your homey is? Is that Charlie Adelson?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Is there some...
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I can't hear you, Ms. Cappleman.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Speculation.
MR. DECOSTE: I'd join in that objection.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Is there a response from Ms. Magbanua to this text message?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, not that I know of.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, there is a, there's a call from Charlie Adelson to the, to the undercover, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And in this call, he says something to the effect of -- and I'm going to paraphrase and I'm not quoting anything. But he makes the assertion that he doesn't know who Tato or Tuto is, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, you're aware, Special Agent --
MR. DECOSTE: Excuse me, Judge.
Mr. Zangeneh.
MR. ZANGENEH: Yeah.
MR. DECOSTE: If you're looking for one of our exhibits.
MR. ZANGENEH: Yeah. BY THE DEFENSE:
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm putting on the overhead, on the Elmo. oh, like that. (Indicating. )
(off-the-record discussion.)
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: while that's warming up -- and on this call, when Charlie Adelson calls the number, he finally calls the number himself?
PATRICK SANFORD: (Nods head.)
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's after a call is placed to the business, right -- or a message is left by the undercover to the business.
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And do you recall the day that this call takes place?
(off-the-record discussion.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: which call are you talking about, Mr. Zangeneh --
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm talking, for the record --
JUDGE HANKINSON: -- about two calls.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: The call that I'm talking about is the call that Charlie Adelson makes to the bump number.
PATRICK SANFORD: To the undercover agent.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. It is on 4/28/16.
MR. ZANGENEH: From April 19th to April 28th, when Mr. Charlie Adelson actually calls the number back, do you have any actual communication between my client, Sigfredo Garcia, and the number for the bump?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, there's not.
MR. ZANGENEH: You indicated on direct that my client did call once, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And hung up and didn't leave a message.
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Correct? Is that a -- is that consistent or inconsistent with Katherine Magbanua's description of how my client's call went with the undercover?
PATRICK SANFORD: That particular call that she was talking about?
MR. ZANGENEH: Right.
PATRICK SANFORD: I believe it was inconsistent --
MR. ZANGENEH: Right.
PATRICK SANFORD: -- if I'm not mistaken.
MR. ZANGENEH: Because, from her testimony -- and it's in the record already and we have a copy of it in the, in the wiretaps is that my client left a very threatening, angry message, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you would agree that that would be the kind of message someone that's being potentially extorted would leave, right, an angry --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: -- message.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH
MR. ZANGENEH: At any point, did my client call the number for the bump and threaten the person?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he did not.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, in actuality -- well, let's -- here we go. Defense Exhibit -- and I believe this is Ms. Magbanua's exhibit. Defense Exhibit 12 is from the -- is Charlie Adelson's Cellebrite from his iCloud. And this is a call that occurred on 4/25/2014. Now, that's two years before this, correct? Here we go. Do you see it right up here, boss, in the top right-hand corner?
PATRICK SANFORD: Two years before what?
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. well, that, that message, April 25th, 2014, between Charlie Adelson and Katherine Magbanua occurred on April 24th, 2014, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. And in that, let's go over it real quick. It says -- and this is from Ms. Magbanua to Mr. Adelson. Did Tuto call your phone? You see that, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Her response -- I'm sorry. His response is -- what is that, what it says right there?
MR. ZANGENEH: No. Did he ask, who's Tuto?
MR. ZANGENEH: And then she responds -- I'm sorry. This is still him. He goes, actually, he did, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Referring to Tuto, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's what it appears to be.
MR. ZANGENEH: He invited me to go deep sea fishing. He was so nice. Is that making a reference to taking someone out in the middle of the ocean?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, calls for speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Are you familiar with that saying?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained. Move on, Mr. Zangeneh.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: So in these messages, in 2014, Charlie Adelson clearly knows who Tuto is, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: It appears that way.
MR. ZANGENEH: And when he calls the person from the bump -- and it's also clear from that text message that he's inferring some sort of animosity between my client and him, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll agree with me that when Charlie Adelson calls Special Agent Jimenez, he lies to him.
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, there's also communication in the wire intercepts where my client indicates that the phone didn't work, right, that there was no -- that he tried to call and nobody picked up, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes. Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: was there always an answering service or a voice mail for that phone?
PATRICK SANFORD: There wasn't always a voice mail set up on it.
MR. ZANGENEH: But other than the hang-up that you have which occurred, I believe, when the voice mails took place -- that one phone call that you have that took place on April 28th, had Mr. Garcia called that number any time before that?
MR. ZANGENEH: In fact, one of the phone calls that Mr. Garcia has with Ms. Magbanua, my client tells Ms. Magbanua, why don't they call the police, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is my client being extorted for $5,000?
PATRICK SANFORD: No, he's not.
MR. ZANGENEH: was Charlie Adelson being extorted for $5,000?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes, he was.
MR. ZANGENEH: Now, there's a call -- let me go to it. It's GG. And that's a phone call between Charlie to the undercover, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And during this call, the agent suggests to Mr. Adelson that the family was taken care of Katie and Tuto. The family has taken care of. It says "was," but I assume it's has. And nothing has been done for taking care of with Tato, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And what they're doing here -- what you're attempting to set up is suggesting that Luis Rivera was not compensated, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: At this point you'll agree with me that Luis Rivera hadn't been cooperating at this point, right? I mean, he hadn't even been arrested, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. So it's impossible for him to cooperate. And you don't find out until end of September, early October what Luis Rivera purports to be the payoff in this case, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And the payoff in this case, based on Luis Rivera, is a hundred thousand dollars, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll] agree with me that what's written -- well, the piece of paper that was given to Donna Adelson, you, you are alleging that the number $5,000 was written on it, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's consistent with what's in the wire between other people, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you'll also agree that your agent indicated that my client and Ms. Magbanua had been taken care of, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And the reference there or the insinuation there is financially, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you go from a hundred thousand dollar number, which is what's purportedly paid by Luis Rivera to a piece of paper where you're asking for only $5,000, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: And that's because, at the time, $5,000 would be about, about right for the number -- for a situation like this, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: No. That's not why we came up with that.
MR. ZANGENEH: Sort of a random number, a payable number?
PATRICK SANFORD: It was a payable number, and we knew there was little things that was being taken care of along the way.
MR. ZANGENEH: well, you had the Adelson's bank records at this time, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: All right. Multi, multimillionaires, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: A lot of money. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Yeah, right? I think you're -- one of the experts for the Government testified that Charlie Adelson, during this time period, was making three to three and a half million dollars a year, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I don't know what was testified to.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. well, does that sound about right, that, that price -- that amount of money he was making?
PATRICK SANFORD: I know he made a lot of money. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And, for a regular person, $5,000 is a lot of money, right? I mean, it's a lot of money.
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: But for a wealthy, person that's not a lot of money, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. I mean, Charlie Adelson drives a Ferrari, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: Pretty new Ferrari. He had a high-end Mercedes, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Right.
MR. ZANGENEH: Lived in a dope, dope house, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. Have you seen his house?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And have you seen where Ms. Magbanua lived?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Pretty different, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: One is kind of a low, low-scale, low-income, low rent apartment, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: I wouldn't call it low rent but low-income. Yeah.
MR. ZANGENEH: I'm sorry. It's not high end.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay? I'm putting it in perspective.
PATRICK SANFORD: Okay.
MR. ZANGENEH: One is up here, right? And one's down here, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: You can say that.
MR. ZANGENEH: From a perspective standpoint.
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
MR. ZANGENEH: wealthy guy, working Joe, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Sure.
JUDGE HANKINSON: We're going to need to give the jury a break. we'll take ten minutes. You may check in at home. Tell them you're going to be a little late tonight.
Either side need anything?
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor. Just a request.
(Jury exits.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: Question?
MR. DECOSTE: Yes, Your Honor. Just to gauge how late Your Honor plans to go. If I am going to be doing my cross, say it is going to be several hours. It would be long. So I do think that this witness would have to come back. But I have a lot of setup to do with respect to the electronics and demonstratives. I don't know if the Court's plan is to have Mr. Zangeneh finish today and then break.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I'm kind of thinking we'll -- well, we're going to at least finish Mr. Zangeneh's cross before we break. So --
MR. ZANGENEH: I don't -- I --
JUDGE HANKINSON: -- we'll see where we are then.
MR. ZANGENEH: I don't have much -- that much longer, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Give you ten minutes.
(Brief recess.)
BAILIFF: All rise and come to order. Court is back in session.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Let's have a jury, please.
(Jury enters.)
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Just a few more questions. I'm not going to say five minutes, because I know what happens when we do that. So, real quick, Luis Rivera told you that the first trip up he bought a gun from, like, a random guy from the hood, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: And his description was, like, super generic?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Like, some black guy with dreads from the hood.
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: Is that a good lead?
MR. ZANGENEH: Okay. Did you believe that that's where he bought the gun?
PATRICK SANFORD: It's possible.
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. Did you, did you think that it was more likely that he got it from another Latin King?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Objection, speculation.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: Luis Rivera rented the Prius on the July trip, yes?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: According to Luis Rivera, it was his gun that was used on the homicide, yes?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: The only hotel reservation you have for that trip was a room rented by Luis Rivera, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: One of the rooms, yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And then you had one rented by Shoddrick Nobles, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct. Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: A gentleman that purportedly lives in his own car, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Someone that picks up drugs for other people, correct?
PATRICK SANFORD: Yes.
MR. ZANGENEH: And you don't know -- did you do a search to see how many other nights Shoddrick Nobles got -- rented a motel in Tallahassee?
PATRICK SANFORD: Not -- I did not personally. No.
MR. ZANGENEH: You just went to that one night, right, that one night that he said, and you found that he stayed in a certain motel, right?
PATRICK SANFORD: Correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: Did, did Luis Rivera -- well, did he mention pulling out a firearm on four people inside of a hotel?
JUDGE HANKINSON: Sustained. I earlier sustained the objection to that, Mr. Zangeneh. Please don't try to go around my rulings.
MR. ZANGENEH: I didn't mean to, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Thank you.
BY MR. ZANGENEH:
MR. ZANGENEH: And, once again, who's the only person that claims that my client shot Dan Markel? Is that Luis Rivera?
PATRICK SANFORD: That's correct.
MR. ZANGENEH: No further questions.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. well, I thought it might be longer than that. Mr. DeCoste said he has several hours. I don't know that we want to go till 8:15. If y'all rather go home or -- I was hoping to get the State's case done today, but I don't think that's realistic. So we're going to break for the evening.
Be back here at 8:45. we're making progress. Not as fast as I'd like, but we're making progress. All right. Y'all have a good evening.
(Jury exits.)
JUDGE HANKINSON: Everybody be seated or step out.
You can step down, Agent.
what are you expecting after Agent Sanford, Ms. Cappleman?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Sir?
JUDGE HANKINSON: what further witnesses are you expecting after Mr. Cappleman -- I mean, after Mr. -- Agent Sanford?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I have the Dolce Vita witness, and then I was going to recall Investigator Isom for a couple of minimal purposes.
JUDGE HANKINSON: You're going to do what on Dolce Vita?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Call the person who was present in the Dolce vita recording.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. So you're going to play that tape?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: TI don't think I'm going to play it in its entirety. I had considered playing a snippet of it, just to give the jury an idea of what it is, what the problems are with it.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. So any new demonstrative aids, if we're going to have them, let's give them to the defense tonight so we don't have to hear complaints about that tomorrow.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yeah. It won't help.
COURT CLERK: what other issues do we need to deal with?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: I don't think so, Judge. The clerk was inquiring as to whether or not Your Honor would like to mark the transcripts of the calls as court exhibits.
JUDGE HANKINSON: The ones I sustained objections to?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, sir. These --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- are the ones that --
MS. CAPPLEMAN: -- were allowed in.
COURT CLERK: The transcripts that for the -- time for which part of it, the wiretaps?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE HANKINSON: That were listened to?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Correct.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Yeah. They ought to be made part of the court file in some form. If you want to mark them as Court exhibits, that will be fine. what else?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: That is all I can think of at the moment, Your Honor.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. From the defense.
MR. DECOSTE: Just a question, Your Honor. Nota request. With respect to wednesday, I was a little bit confused. My understanding is that the courthouse is closed because of Yom Kippur.
JUDGE HANKINSON: No. We're -- I said Friday we're going to be in court wednesday.
MR. DECOSTE: Okay.
JUDGE HANKINSON: That's why I said it Friday. I was hoping everybody was listening.
MR. DECOSTE: I just want to make sure, because when I talked to other people, they were telling me, no, the courthouse is absolutely closed.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I don't -- you better talk to me. All right?
MR. DECOSTE: That's why I'm bringing it up now.
JUDGE HANKINSON: That's why I said Friday -- if anybody else is confused, that's why I brought it up Friday. So everybody will be on notice. Anything else?
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, Judge. Really, really briefly. If the Government concludes their testimony tomorrow and let's say both sides conclude, let's say, wednesday afternoon, would we go right into closings, or will you give us some time to prepare our closings? Or should we be prepared to go directly into closings?
JUDGE HANKINSON: You're asking me to hypothesize a whole lot. It kind of depends.
MR. ZANGENEH: Sure.
JUDGE HANKINSON: It kind of -- might depend how much time I thought we'd been wasting. So, anyway, we'll see. I can't give you an answer. Yes.
MR. DECOSTE: One question along those lines, Your Honor. we did it for voir dire. Is there an idea of how long Your Honor would give for each party to close? I anticipate that it would probably be along the same time frame is what we needed for voir dire. Of course voir dire went a lot quicker. But I would imagine an hour and a half to two hours to close this case.
JUDGE HANKINSON: I mean, we can discuss that now if you desire. I was going to ask y'all at some point in time. I guess now is as good a time as any.
How long does the State think they need for closing?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Two hours would be more than sufficient for the State for both parts.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Every -- I mean, I think anybody talks two hours, they'll be talking to themselves. But if y'all want two hours each, that's up to you. Good lawyers know not to put the jury to sleep. But if you want -- each of you want two hours as a cap?
MR. DECOSTE: AS a cap, I don't expect...
MR. ZANGENEH: Yes, Judge. I -- yeah. I would say an hour, hour and 15 for me.
COURT CLERK: Yeah. I mean.
MR. ZANGENEH: 1I'11 take a two-hour cap, but I'll tell you half that cap is not going to be used.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. <A good lawyer is not going to talk more than an hour. But, anyway.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: we don't have any of those here. SO...
JUDGE HANKINSON: what's that?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: We don't have any of them here. SO...
MR. DECOSTE: Objection.
JUDGE HANKINSON: No. You just need to keep in mind what the jury can absorb. That's -- so maybe an hour and a half? Everybody okay with an hour and a half?
MR. ZANGENEH: That's fine, Judge. Fine for Mr. Garcia.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No objection.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right.
MR. DECOSTE: I'd still ask for two. I've outlined it.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. I thought you were saying you didn't want that long. I'm sorry.
MR. DECOSTE: I would like to have the comfort if it needs to go that long, just if I need to play things. I don't know what else the State's going to move in. I don't know what Mr. Zangeneh is going to move in. I don't know how my case-in-chief is going to go.
I -- as I did with Your Honor for voir dire, we gave an hour 45. I think I was far less than that on mine, and it got shorter and shorter and shorter. I want it to be short, but if I have to play out some exhibits, it could eat up some of my time. But I can give Your Honor the confidence that I would not talk longer than I need to, if that helps. I'm going to get to the point.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. If you want to give everybody two hours, we can do so. I hope you don't use it, but if that's what you want, we'll do so. All right. Anything else?
MR. DECOSTE: No, Your Honor.
MR. ZANGENEH: No, Judge.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. All right.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: Judge, can we just put Your Honor on notice that we have not yet received any mental health mitigation from Mr. Garcia's team? So I know they're working on it, but I'm just letting you know. we're eager to get started on that.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Mr. Zangeneh, where do we stand on that? I know you had some issue with your expert. We got --
MR. ZANGENEH: Right. We did have a new expert appointed in less than about -- about a week or a week and a half ago. She's done multiple sessions and done her due diligence. I know that she'll make herself available for deposition if the Government wants to depose her.
MS. CAPPLEMAN: we do.
MR. ZANGENEH: Absolutely. Let me know whenever you guys want to depose her, and I will make her available.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. Now, there's not going to be a lot of time between, you know, the end of the case and the penalty phase.
MR. ZANGENEH: Correct, Judge. And what I believe and my understanding is, in dealing with the ASA that's handling it, it is not one of the members that are actively participating in the trial -- well, at least the, the -- this portion of it. So let me know whenever he's available and he wants to depose her. I know that she's, she's available within reasonable notice.
JUDGE HANKINSON: Okay. Anything else?
MS. CAPPLEMAN: No, sir.
JUDGE HANKINSON: All right. See y'all in the morning 8:30.
(Court in recess; continued in Volume x.)